Bills plan is apparent

[X-Era]

I just went through the available FA's list.

What is left is vets who are beyond there youth and expect to be paid by what they have done, not what they will do.

-That plan is exactly why we ended up 5 and 11 last year. We signed a bunch of overpaid vets who's play was headed south. We took major cap hits on players like:

Milloy
Bledsoe
Vincent
Adams
Teague
Villarial

TD spent loads of money on players who arent worth it anymore. Basically THIS regime is spending less money on younger players who at the least will play the same as these vets, and at best will develop and be much much better...and for cheaper.

The rest of whats left is young players who havent done squat yet.

-We have inevsted in a few of these type of players so far:

Gibson
Fowler

These guys have a chance to earn spots and develop. But at the very least, they are young vets who could be adequate backups.

Short of Vincent, I applaud the Bills for releasing the overpaid vets and starting over with the right type of players still here. Overachievers like Spikes, Fletcher. We have drafted tough, smart, fast players. We have signed guys who have lots of upside, and we have kept players who are valuable like Clements, McGee, Peters.

No, we didnt get Hutch. No, we didnt get Bentley. We DID get Tripplett. We DID get a 16 game starter at LG, Reyes. We DID get a youngster with upside at C in Fowler. We DID resign Peerless who had his best years right here in BUff and should be a solid WR as a #3 and may be a solid #2.

No, this team wont battle for the playoffs next year. But IMO, no matter WHO we signed with what we had in cap cash, that wasnt happening anyways.

I bet we suprise alot of people with a hard nosed, fly to the ball, group of young overachievers, led by JP.

[Jan Reimers]

Good, optimistic post, jp. I love the kind of bright, young, hungry, motivated players we have brought in. They will give us a solid foundation on which to rebuild this team after Donahoe's fiascos.

[Goobylal]

If anything, this off-season seems more like how the Pats built their team, and the opposite of how TD tried to acquire several big name players every year. I'd also say it's very Sabres-like.

[BillsFever21]

I bet this is almost the exact same things fans of teams like Arizona and Cinci said for almost a decade till they started to turn things around.

We signed a bunch of cheap scrubs. The same thing them teams did for years.

Some homers can call them "up and coming" stars if they want. You will always have them types of people.

[Jan Reimers]

I bet this is almost the exact same things fans of teams like Arizona and Cinci said for almost a decade till they started to turn things around.

We signed a bunch of cheap scrubs. The same thing them teams did for years.

Some homers can call them "up and coming" stars if they want. You will always have them types of people.
No, we actually signed young, motivated players with upside, rather than old, declining players with big names and contracts, as was Donahoe's style. They won't all be superstars, but they will give us a good nucleus of hardworking, team-oriented players similar to the New England model.

[Dozerdog]

But signing the big superstars is what placates the whiners.


Boo Hoo we didn't sugn Damien Woody a few years ago for $30 MILLION
WWWWwaaahh! We didn't spend $38 million on LeCharles Bentley
:cry: I never heard of these guys so they MUST suck!

[BillsFever21]

The New England team wouldn't have been anything without the coaching staff they had. I guess you are labeling are coaching staff in the same class as New England had.

Every young player has upside. It doesn't make them good players though. They were junk from other teams.

When we got rid of our young dead weight like Pucillio, Bannan and others, I wonder if they are considered with that same label.

We don't miss them. It would be funny if the teams who picked them up were thinking that.

It wouldn't have mattered what cheap younger scrubs we brought in. The same people would be saying the same thing about them.

Do these people even know anything about these players? I doubt it. That's what they wanna believe and it's the Kool-Aid OBD is serving the homers this season.

[The_Philster]

I guess you are labeling are coaching staff in the same class as New England had.
actually, no one knows what this coaching staff will be like. Do you think that Bob Kraft knew that Belichek would turn out as well as he did when he hired him? Considering Belichek was a bit of a flop in Cleveland, I highly doubt it

When we got rid of our young dead weight like Pucillio, Bannan and others, I wonder if they are considered with that same label.
Honestly, a change of scenery could work wonders for a lot of players. After all, John Parrella and Tom Nutten, to name a few, weren't worth much of anything here in Buffalo

[BillsFever21]

No. Signing good productive players keeps people happy. Not a bunch of scrubs and castoffs who wasn't wanted by their other teams.

I hear the same thing year after year. The homers will always follow the company line and say crap to the ones who don't follow it. For the last 6 years we have been losers and the ones who didn't follow it have been right. This is just the new company line and flavor of Kool-Aid for the homers this year.

No we didn't sign Bentley for 38 million. With that 38 million we spent it on a 3rd-4th option WR in Josh Reed(10 million), a 3rd string QB(10 million), a 2nd string TE Royal(10 million), and another 3rd option WR who hasn't done anything in 3 years in Peerless Price(10 million)

All of which are dime a dozen players and will be lucky to be on the team in a few years and are averaging 2.5 million a season. Their production could've been filled much cheaper.

I wasn't crying for Bentley. But his 38 million would've given us more production then them guys will.

I hear crap every year but every year I've been correct about our team. From Mularkey and Clements and others. Everyone supported all this stuff because they were Bills(so they must be good) but they are always wrong. A new coaching staff and set of players come in and it's the same old stuff.

You guys can live in denial if you want. Some of us aren't willing to do so.

[BillsFever21]

actually, no one knows what this coaching staff will be like. Do you think that Bob Kraft knew that Belichek would turn out as well as he did when he hired him? Considering Belichek was a bit of a flop in Cleveland, I highly doubt it
Honestly, a change of scenery could work wonders for a lot of players. After all, John Parrella and Tom Nutten, to name a few, weren't worth much of anything here in Buffalo

He must've highly regarded Belicheck. He gave up draft picks to get him as the HC.

So now we're labeling Dick Jauron in the same class as Bill Belicheck. Now that's funny.

And why are they being labeled in the same class? Just because they both had a losing record their first time around as a HC. That doesn't mean jack.

I guess Mike Mularkey, Marty Morinweg, and all the other failed coaches in the league can be labeled in that same class.

[Jan Reimers]

actually, no one knows what this coaching staff will be like. Do you think that Bob Kraft knew that Belichek would turn out as well as he did when he hired him? Considering Belichek was a bit of a flop in Cleveland, I highly doubt it
Honestly, a change of scenery could work wonders for a lot of players. After all, John Parrella and Tom Nutten, to name a few, weren't worth much of anything here in Buffalo
Good points, Philster. I think that Levy and Jauron are way ahead of any GM/Head Coach combination we've had here since the Polian/Levy days, and they seem to be bringing in their type of players - despite media and fan criticism over the lack of "big names."

I'm cautiously optimistic that the Bills will be good again, although it may take a few years to undo the Donahoe/Mularkey damage.

[BillsFever21]

Wilson was brilliant in bringing in an old geezer like the famous Marv Levy as GM. No matter what moves he makes there will be fans who will think they are great moves just because it's Marv Levy.

You can bring in a group of scrubs along with a career losing coach who wasn't really wanted by anyone else and all of a sudden things are looking bright just because they were hired by Marv Levy.

All of you said the same thing when Mularkey was hired as the HC. That it was a great improvement over Williams and things were gonna turn around now.

[The_Philster]

No one's labelled Jauron in any class except for the people who have given up on him and his staff before even training camp, Feve...but don't let facts stop you from making ridiculous posts :up: I enjoy the humor in them

[The_Philster]

Good points, Philster. I think that Levy and Jauron are way ahead of any GM/Head Coach combination we've had here since the Polian/Levy days, and they seem to be bringing in their type of players - despite media and fan criticism over the lack of "big names."

I'm cautiously optimistic that the Bills will be good again, although it may take a few years to undo the Donahoe/Mularkey damage.
Big key word to that is bolded. It's too hard to predict what kind of contribution any player will have with a new team. Like you, I'm cautiously optimistic..I just find it difficult to understand why people seem to want to find the bad in everything :idunno:

[patmoran2006]

Big key word to that is bolded. It's too hard to predict what kind of contribution any player will have with a new team. Like you, I'm cautiously optimistic..I just find it difficult to understand why people seem to want to find the bad in everything :idunno:
Cautiously optimistic is the operative word, as I feel the same way.

I also see both sides of the fence.

Singing a bunch of "name" players like TD did never got us into a playoff game, so I see that side.

At the same rate, IMO people who say Bentley shouldnt be signed because he isnt worth $38 million to me is ridiculous... Given our recent history of our OL if he's a Pro Bowler compared to what we had/have he's a BARGAIN.

So in those regards, I agree with Bills Fever that I'd rather have Bently at $38 million that Reed, Royal, Price combined.. THose are a dime a dozen players who can easily be refurnished. There are few if any Bentley's in the league at center.

I love our draft, although I dont think people will see the fruits of it until 2007.. I like SOME of our FA moves (Reyes, A-Train, Tripplett, A Davis), absolutely despise some of the other moves (Royal, Reed, Price, Denney) and I'm puzzled to this day about Nall.

"Homers" have reason to be optimistic as its a new regime, a new system and a lot of new players. We only won 5 games last year, how much WORSE can it get with a bunch of new, younger guys?

"Whiners" also have a reason to be pessimistic as it's a story we've all seen before, and on paper this team is SIGNIFICANTLY worse than it was last year, and last year wasn't pretty.

[BillsFever21]

No one's labelled Jauron in any class except for the people who have given up on him and his staff before even training camp, Feve...but don't let facts stop you from making ridiculous posts :up: I enjoy the humor in them

Blah, blah. I heard the same thing about Mularkey and his staff. I heard how they were light years ahead of Williams staff.

Even after the first season when I saw that he sucked there were some who would point to the 9-7 record and said how good he was and that we were on the verge of big success.

In a few more years when we have another new head coach we can go through the same process once again.

Jauron is a proven loser. What Belichek did before New England doesn't mean anything. That is about 1 in 100 coaches that failed their first stint and then became great. I don't wanna hear that it was because he was in Chicago either. Once he was fired the Bears got good.

You are the type that finds the positives in everything and always holds out hope. That is your choice.

We will see who is right. I've been right for 5 straight years. You have been wrong. For the Bills' sake I hope I'm the one who will be wrong this time.

[TigerJ]

I'm definitely a "glass half full" kind of guy, like most of the posters in this thread. On the other hand you seem like a "glass is broken and the booze is running all over the ground" kind of guy, Fever. No one, at least very few, are saying the Bills are going to do damage in the playoffs this year. On the other hand, The Bills have established a clear operating philosophy that may give the Bills some clear direction and hope for the future. Even if moves have been made that surprised me, or moves I might not have made, I will honor that sense of direction with some patience in hopes that it pays off in a year or two. You might just as well crawl in a hole and hibernate for a year, Fever. You can stick your head out of your hole next year, and we'll tell you if its safe.

[The_Philster]

Jauron is a proven loser. What Belichek did before New England doesn't mean anything.Belichek was a proven loser before New England to those of us without double standards

[justasportsfan]

But signing the big superstars is what placates the whiners.


Boo Hoo we didn't sugn Damien Woody a few years ago for $30 MILLION
WWWWwaaahh! We didn't spend $38 million on LeCharles Bentley
:cry: I never heard of these guys so they MUST suck! :snicker:

[justasportsfan]

Belichek was a proven loser before New England to those of us without double standardssays the Johnsonite :jk:

If we succeed guys like Bfever won't even bother to show up. It's easy to say we will fail because it's not hard for a rebuilding team to do so.

[justasportsfan]

"Homers" have reason to be optimistic as its a new regime, a new system and a lot of new players. We only won 5 games last year, how much WORSE can it get with a bunch of new, younger guys?

. I am one of those who think we'llget better because of the new things. But I don't expedct us to get better overnight.

[ParanoidAndroid]

No. Signing good productive players keeps people happy. Not a bunch of scrubs and castoffs who wasn't wanted by their other teams.

I hear the same thing year after year. The homers will always follow the company line and say crap to the ones who don't follow it. For the last 6 years we have been losers and the ones who didn't follow it have been right. This is just the new company line and flavor of Kool-Aid for the homers this year.

No we didn't sign Bentley for 38 million. With that 38 million we spent it on a 3rd-4th option WR in Josh Reed(10 million), a 3rd string QB(10 million), a 2nd string TE Royal(10 million), and another 3rd option WR who hasn't done anything in 3 years in Peerless Price(10 million)

All of which are dime a dozen players and will be lucky to be on the team in a few years and are averaging 2.5 million a season. Their production could've been filled much cheaper.

I wasn't crying for Bentley. But his 38 million would've given us more production then them guys will.

I hear crap every year but every year I've been correct about our team. From Mularkey and Clements and others. Everyone supported all this stuff because they were Bills(so they must be good) but they are always wrong. A new coaching staff and set of players come in and it's the same old stuff.

You guys can live in denial if you want. Some of us aren't willing to do so.

But we did sign a bunch of big name players...a starategy that earned one winning season in 5 years. Donahoe's final draft was the worst of his tenure here and his others were not so great either, which has put this team in a hole. The shift in philosophy to building with drafted players and young free agents is clear and it has been a formula that has worked more than any other. The Redskins tried to buy their way to a superbowl and ended up with nothing more than cap hell to show for it. Unfortuately, we can't buy a team like the New York Yankees. We have to take our chances on "no-names" and be smart with the players we have. Donahoe's plan backfired. We have a new GM and a new plan that neither you nor I can truly evaluate yet. I guess if optimism makes me a homer, then I'll wear that badge with honor.

[X-Era]

I bet this is almost the exact same things fans of teams like Arizona and Cinci said for almost a decade till they started to turn things around.

We signed a bunch of cheap scrubs. The same thing them teams did for years.

Some homers can call them "up and coming" stars if they want. You will always have them types of people.

Riiiiiggggghhhhttttt.

Lets see:

Arizona drafts Andre Wadsworth, Simeon Rice, Leonard Davis, David Boston, LJ Shelton, Thomas Jones

Out of 6 1st round picks, 4 were lineman, I guess that shows what THAT plan gets you.

Cinci drafted and kept some guy named Takeo when they stunk. Hmmmmm.

And the team you fail to mention at all, is the Pats who have made a history of signing cheap scrubs. They won 3 SB's that way.

Now, Im not defending the Pats methodology. In fact, I agree with you that you cant make a team out of fodder. But, we have young studs on this squad.

TKO, McGahee, Evans, McGee, Schobel, Moorman, Peters. All are young up and comers. Out of that list Evans, McGahee, and TKO are the most proven. McGahee being the darkhorse who could become dominant and a top 5 RB if he gets over himself.

I would have liked to have added a few more. But, great teams do it through the draft. I believe that we will learn to find Whitner as a top 5-10 SS in this league within year 3 of his career.

Id like to see some young stud OL players, but we havent addressed it yet adequately. They are EXTREMELY hard to come by these days.

I also feel we need a young stud QB, but IMO hes already here and a diamond in the rough. Let my username lead you to who I think it is.

So, theres no way around the fact that our days, mon ths, and years of mediocrity are most likely not over. But, hope springs eternal, and I CAN say that the attitude, character, and build of the players we are adding is definetely intriguing and could lead to some suprises in our near future.

[X-Era]

But we did sign a bunch of big name players...a starategy that earned one winning season in 5 years. Donahoe's final draft was the worst of his tenure here and his others were not so great either, which has put this team in a hole. The shift in philosophy to building with drafted players and young free agents is clear and it has been a formula that has worked more than any other. The Redskins tried to buy their way to a superbowl and ended up with nothing more than cap hell to show for it. Unfortuately, we can't buy a team like the New York Yankees. We have to take our chances on "no-names" and be smart with the players we have. Donahoe's plan backfired. We have a new GM and a new plan that neither you nor I can truly evaluate yet. I guess if optimism makes me a homer, then I'll wear that badge with honor.

I agree we cant buy the team like the Yankees. But what we COULD do, is make a HUGE move to tip the scales.

TD tried but was PATHETIC in doing it. Drew was a waste. But what if WE had signed Culpepper or Brees. I like Brees alot personally. Culpepper, I can do without but he is a upgrade.

What if we go ahead and trade those high picks for players or tarde many picks for a single sure fire stud, like a Reggie Bush.

Ive clamored for moves like this only to hear how silly big moves are, and how much those picks are worth. Well, last time I checked, we have spent a whole bunch of picks in the past 5 years on players, many who arent worth more than being backups. Sorry, but I would trade those guys for a big name yopung player at a key position.

I must say, that many fans tend to be their own problem. They argue that we waste money when we sign Milloys, and trade for Drews, then they argue that we waste money when we go the cheap scrub route, they argue we waste picks on the players we take, they argue we waste picks when we fill needs in the first round, or when we move up to get the QB.

What IS true is that we havent done what we need to do in a long time.

Maybe this is our year to start suprising. The Sabres managed to do it, why not us?

[ParanoidAndroid]

I think the difference between the Donahoe era and the Levy era is evident in that no one is making promises about the upcoming season. Donahoe would make a move and declare it our saving grace. Hopes would be raised, ticket sales would spike and the team would still sputter because his moves did not coincide with the coach's plans.
Marv is not taking that tack. He is bringing in players that match what the coaches are trying to do. While nothing specific has been said thus far, we may be seeing more influence in player acquisition among the positional coaches. I wonder if Marv is listening to McNally, Kollar, etc. instead of micromanaging like the control freak we had last year. If asked the question, I'm sure Marv will say how much he leans on all his coaches in his decision making process.

[BillsFever21]

I think the difference between the Donahoe era and the Levy era is evident in that no one is making promises about the upcoming season. Donahoe would make a move and declare it our saving grace. Hopes would be raised, ticket sales would spike and the team would still sputter because his moves did not coincide with the coach's plans.
Marv is not taking that tack. He is bringing in players that match what the coaches are trying to do. While nothing specific has been said thus far, we may be seeing more influence in player acquisition among the positional coaches. I wonder if Marv is listening to McNally, Kollar, etc. instead of micromanaging like the control freak we had last year. If asked the question, I'm sure Marv will say how much he leans on all his coaches in his decision making process.

Hopes wasn't raised for everyone. Only the same people who think that we're on the rise again for giving 10 million each to a 4th option WR, backup TE, backup safety, 3rd string QB and some other castoffs along with it are the ones who bought into the crap OBD put out every year.

The same people have hopes again this year and will every year. It doesn't matter what moves are made. If they are made by the Bills then they are great moves in the eyes of some people.

Every year they are wrong and get their hearts broken. While myself and others who are realistic and don't believe everything we're told have been right for the last 6 years.

We get blasted every year but every year we have been right with our predictions. I find it pretty amusing. This year won't be any different.

[BillsFever21]

says the Johnsonite :jk:

If we succeed guys like Bfever won't even bother to show up. It's easy to say we will fail because it's not hard for a rebuilding team to do so.

I would love to eat crow. That would mean we were actually a good team.

People have been saying that exact same thing for 5 years when I said we were gonna suck. I would show up and I would be happy.

Over enthusiastic homers can keep showing up after being wrong every season and looking like a fool with their predictions. That's the least I could do.

It's the same predictions and hope every year out of some people. It happens every time this season and every coaching change. We hear the same predictions every year but with just different players and coaches involved in it.

[justasportsfan]

Naysayers like you aren't exactly going out on a limb. I mean how hard is it to predict the bills lack of success when the bills never gave Drew an Ol . We all know Drew is one of the worst qb's when pressured. It's also not hard to predict that the bills would struggle with a rookie qb. Now we're on rebuilding mode. Like I said, if you guys are so right about your predictions, go out on a limb and predict our record and who will win the sb.

[BillsFever21]

Naysayers like you aren't exactly going out on a limb. I mean how hard is it to predict the bills lack of success when the bills never gave Drew an Ol . We all know Drew is one of the worst qb's when pressured. It's also not hard to predict that the bills would struggle with a rookie qb. Now we're on rebuilding mode. Like I said, if you guys are so right about your predictions, go out on a limb and predict our record and who will win the sb.

While everybody else had a woody going into last season after finishing the year before 9-7 I didn't.

Some had us as a SB contender. I wasn't fooled by a good finish by beating up on some of the worst teams in the league. Some thought Mularkey was gonna do good things for us after that season. I wasn't fooled by it.

If it was so easy to predict the lack of success how come so many here are wrong when they predict all these victories?

We're not naysayers. We're realistic fans that look at our team and make realistic predictions. Just because we don't play the company line like some here doesn't mean we're naysayers.

[BillsFever21]

Naysayers like you aren't exactly going out on a limb. I mean how hard is it to predict the bills lack of success when the bills never gave Drew an Ol . We all know Drew is one of the worst qb's when pressured. It's also not hard to predict that the bills would struggle with a rookie qb. Now we're on rebuilding mode. Like I said, if you guys are so right about your predictions, go out on a limb and predict our record and who will win the sb.

Oh, and I have been pretty close to our record almost every season. I'll make my prediction closer to the year.

Last year I predicted around 6 wins. Bingo.

[Jeff1220]

I'd rather be optimistic, hopeful, and wrong than pessimistic, miserable, and right.

I don't believe everything out of 1BD, but I do hope the team's moves turn out to be good ones. Until they get on the field, we really can't tell for sure. Might as well have some fun in rooting for your team.
:soap:

[Bill Cody]

Blah, blah. I heard the same thing about Mularkey and his staff. I heard how they were light years ahead of Williams staff.

Even after the first season when I saw that he sucked there were some who would point to the 9-7 record and said how good he was and that we were on the verge of big success.

In a few more years when we have another new head coach we can go through the same process once again.

Jauron is a proven loser. What Belichek did before New England doesn't mean anything. That is about 1 in 100 coaches that failed their first stint and then became great. I don't wanna hear that it was because he was in Chicago either. Once he was fired the Bears got good.

You are the type that finds the positives in everything and always holds out hope. That is your choice.

We will see who is right. I've been right for 5 straight years. You have been wrong. For the Bills' sake I hope I'm the one who will be wrong this time.

And it is your choice to be a whiny beotch. Go find a nursing home and start screaming down the halls "you're all going to die! You heard it here first- you're all going to die miserable painful deaths".

[ParanoidAndroid]

Hopes wasn't raised for everyone. Only the same people who think that we're on the rise again for giving 10 million each to a 4th option WR, backup TE, backup safety, 3rd string QB and some other castoffs along with it are the ones who bought into the crap OBD put out every year.

The same people have hopes again this year and will every year. It doesn't matter what moves are made. If they are made by the Bills then they are great moves in the eyes of some people.

Every year they are wrong and get their hearts broken. While myself and others who are realistic and don't believe everything we're told have been right for the last 6 years.

We get blasted every year but every year we have been right with our predictions. I find it pretty amusing. This year won't be any different.

How dull. I think that most Bills fans will admit feeling aprehensive about their own optimism. I can see multiple weak spots as can most of the fans here. We just choose to see a young player as a possible contributor or envision a QB stepping up and finally giving us some offense. When we talk about it, we are merely hoping something bounces our way. We have a thread that is fun to read but for some reason, the self-proclaimed "realists" (how real can it be if you're talking about a game?) come into the conversation and play buzz kill, criticizing us for being "homers." I'd like to make a deal. If all the "realists" can refrain from killing a good, optimistic thread, I, as a "homer" will vow to stay out of the pessimistic threads.