Losman to start.

[HHURRICANE]

Call it a gut feeling but here is my logic.

Holcomb: We are not a playoff team this year and I believe that Jauron and Levy know this. Holcomb was a great pick before last season when it looked like we had a chance at the playoffs. But now we are rebuilding and there is absolutely no reason to start him. So he is #2 or #3 for sure.

Nall: He has to be great in Pre-Season. To start a 4 year backup, especially one that had another QB drafted to replace him, is a ballsy move. He would have to be lights out over Losman. Again #2 or #3.

Losman: I feel sorry for this kid. His career has been completely mismanaged by this organization. He will have to be great as well to win the starting job. But this is where I think he wins it. Our OL is stiil going to blow. It will be better, but not good. A guy that can roll out, scramble and find the receiver down field is an asset on this current team. With the re-signing of Reed and the elevation of Evans to #1 the camp favors Losman.

Any thoughts?!

[eeyyeeddoogg]

Re: Losman to start.

I think your right on hurricane.

[Mr. Pink]

Re: Losman to start.

Just some of my own thoughts on this topic.....

Holcomb- Is a career back up for the most part. He intiated a QB controversey in Cleveland based on ONE games' performance, the playoff game vs the Steelers which Cleveland lost anyways. I will say this, their losing that game had nothing to do with him though. He created a rift in the lockeroom where you had Couch supporters and Holcomb supporters...sound familiar? He's a QB in the mold of Trent Dilfer, won't win you many games but won't lose you many either. He is a good backup and adequate starter if you have players around him who can make plays. But obviously he's not the long term answer and if he wins the battle going into camp, the Bills better be making some plans in the near future to find the long term QB of this franchise.

Losman- If he wasn't ready to play as the London Fletcher comments suggest and every one of the veterans that we jettisoned, what makes you think he's ready now? His last start of the season was easily his worst game as a pro. He showed no considerable signs of progression during the year and actually regressed at times. I'm not sold on him being the future of the franchise when his play is a lot like that of Kyle Boller. Oddly his scouting report out of college is a lot like Bollers' as well. All that being said, Losman could succeed in this league if his brain can come around. It has nothing to do with his physical tools, because if he didn't have those, he wouldn't have been drafted in round 1. His problem is between the ears, he makes completely outlandish comments during press conferences, shows an inability to read defenses and panics. His other main problem is that he hasn't figured out yet that he cannot just let his talent win the club games...in a small school you can win just on how good you are because you're playing other small schools with a big talent gap, in the NFL everyone has talent.

Nall- Relatively an unknown in this battle. Put up numbers in NFL Europe, but so did Stan Gelbaugh. Remember for every Jake Delhomme there is a Stan Gelbaugh. Didn't do enough obviously to impress the Packers front office seeing he was cast off from their squad in the offseason. Plus two years ago they brought in Couch to be the heir apparent to Favre, which failed, due to Couch having a shoulder injury he never disclosed to Browns brass let alone the Pack. Then they drafted Aaron Rodgers to be the heir apparent. Now if you think the Packers scouting team has any brains whatsoever how can they let him go? They went through Warner, Brunnel, Brooks being on the roster, then let go because Favre was in his prime, only to see each succeed. With that, why would they let Nall just go walk away if they though he had the ability to do what those QBs did?

All in all, unfortunately, I don't think we have the long term solution at QB on this roster right now. I feel Holcomb will win out in training camp which is pretty much a certainty. Holcomb provides veteran leadership and knows when to "turn it on" to get the number 1 job. Plus he doesn't have the huge specter of the club giving up on him and throwing him under the fire like JP does. Honestly I think JP is going to have the toughest time out of the three in winning the QB battle due to mental factors and the last regimes' treatment of him not to mention some of the other people in the lockeroom.

[TacklingDummy]

Re: Losman to start.

Any thoughts?!

Let me get this straight....Holcomb is not good enough to be starter and we are rebuilding,....Nall... has to be great in the pre-season to start.....JP....also has to be great in the pre-season to start......

So if Nall and JP both suck in the preseason and Holcomb is not good enough to be the starter......then who starts?

[HHURRICANE]

Re: Losman to start.

I feel Holcomb will win out in training camp which is pretty much a certainty.

Honestly I think JP is going to have the toughest time out of the three in winning the QB battle due to mental factors and the last regimes' treatment of him not to mention some of the other people in the lockeroom.

I strongly disagree with your first point that Holcomb is a near lock to win the spot. Leveraging your future on giving a 33 year old career backup valuable playing time is pretty much insane unless you already are certain that Losman and Nall are so bad that they will never be players, let alone starters, in this league.

Your second point is right on. Today, no doubt, Losman is #3. However, and I again preface that some of this is a gut feeling, believe that Losman is the most talented of the bunch and will ultimately prevail. His 2 favorite targets, Evans and Reed, played way harder for him than Holcomb. They will be out there this fall with Evans as #1. This helps him immensely as Moulds, Hocomb's favorite target, is gone and had a real dislike for the kid.

If Losman doesn't end up as the starter in September he is all but finished as a Bill. That is for sure.

[TacklingDummy]

Re: Losman to start.

Losman: I A guy that can roll out, scramble and find the receiver down field is an asset on this current team.

I'd rather have a QB that can read a defense and get rid of the ball instead of one that scrambles around into sacks.

[HHURRICANE]

Re: Losman to start.

I'd rather have a QB that can read a defense and get rid of the ball instead of one that scrambles around into sacks.

I'd rather have a QB on 4th and 7 not throw it 4 yards. Game over.

[Mr. Pink]

Re: Losman to start.

I'd rather have a QB on 4th and 7 not throw it 4 yards. Game over.

You do have a point there. But like I said, Holcomb isn't the guy who's gonna win you games. He got the ball in the hands of one of the playmakers, Eric Moulds in this instance, and trusted him to make the play. Unfortunately, it did not work out.

What is worse though throwing the ball 10 yards downfield into double coverage where it could be picked off or get the ball into the hands of someone if he can make a play you pick up the first down? It's a catch 22 situation basically.

[HHURRICANE]

Re: Losman to start.

You do have a point there. But like I said, Holcomb isn't the guy who's gonna win you games. He got the ball in the hands of one of the playmakers, Eric Moulds in this instance, and trusted him to make the play. Unfortunately, it did not work out.

What is worse though throwing the ball 10 yards downfield into double coverage where it could be picked off or get the ball into the hands of someone if he can make a play you pick up the first down? It's a catch 22 situation basically.

That was for Tackling Dummy, not you. Are you on dial up?!

[TacklingDummy]

Re: Losman to start.

I'd rather have a QB on 4th and 7 not throw it 4 yards. Game over.

He got the ball in the hands of one of the playmakers, Eric Moulds in this instance, and trusted him to make the play. Unfortunately, it did not work out.

What is worse though throwing the ball 10 yards downfield into double coverage where it could be picked off or get the ball into the hands of someone if he can make a play you pick up the first down? It's a catch 22 situation basically.

I'd rather have a QB who knows when to throw the ball away when your up by 21 points and in the redzone. Not throw a INT. that turned the whole game around and led to Miami's comeback.

[ibatiger]

Re: Losman to start.

Just some of my own thoughts on this topic.....

Nall- Relatively an unknown in this battle. Put up numbers in NFL Europe, but so did Stan Gelbaugh. Remember for every Jake Delhomme there is a Stan Gelbaugh. Didn't do enough obviously to impress the Packers front office seeing he was cast off from their squad in the offseason. Plus two years ago they brought in Couch to be the heir apparent to Favre, which failed, due to Couch having a shoulder injury he never disclosed to Browns brass let alone the Pack. Then they drafted Aaron Rodgers to be the heir apparent. Now if you think the Packers scouting team has any brains whatsoever how can they let him go? They went through Warner, Brunnel, Brooks being on the roster, then let go because Favre was in his prime, only to see each succeed. With that, why would they let Nall just go walk away if they though he had the ability to do what those QBs did?

Couch and others were brought in to replace PEDERSON, who was considered expendable as Favre's backup. Yeah, they would be there to compete to be Favre's replacement, but so would Nall, who was younger and still developing. In each case they failed to surplant Pederson and then Nall beat them out to even remain on the roster. As far as the other QBs who went on to be successful, they were developed in the same way that Nall was, and Nall certainly would have been retained by Sherman/Rossley/Bevell. Ted Thompson came in and took over at GM and drafted Rodgers when Green Bay was set to not draft a QB due to Nall's performance in 2004. There is no "they" in this equation. It was all on Thompson, who was trying to make a splash as the new GM. Where have we seen that before? Like almost everytime a new GM comes in. It just happened that Rodgers fell all the way to 24th and Thompson got all giddy about it and drafted him. He obviously thought that Rodgers could become a franchise QB (at 20 years old) and Nall would probably be his backup or could be traded for other consideration. As it turns out, Rodgers did not impress, even though he was no. 2 simply because of his draft position. Nall had to be retained through the 2005 season and right up until he became a FA. Thompson definitely wanted to keep Nall, but was not willing to pay what Buffalo did. Thompson is obviously still married to Rodgers. That is understandable. How can anybody construe that to be a negative as far as Nall is concerned? Nall's old coaches who had left Green Bay tried to obtain his services, but the opportunity was better in Buffalo.

[Devin]

Re: Losman to start.

Good posting, I tend to agree. Id like to see JP get a proper crack at it before hes labeled a bust. Nall could be a nice surprise and we all know what we have in Holcomb.....a better then average backup QB.

I tend to lean towards the idea that none of the 3 is the answer, id love to be wrong.

[HHURRICANE]

Re: Losman to start.

You do have a point there. But like I said, Holcomb isn't the guy who's gonna win you games. He got the ball in the hands of one of the playmakers, Eric Moulds in this instance, and trusted him to make the play. Unfortunately, it did not work out.

What is worse though throwing the ball 10 yards downfield into double coverage where it could be picked off or get the ball into the hands of someone if he can make a play you pick up the first down? It's a catch 22 situation basically.

The problem is Moulds didn't make the plays. No real runs after the catch. His best games were the last few that Holcomb started when the season was lost and he knew he was leaving. At least JP could get it down field. The kid has had 8 career starts. That's it.

I didn't start this thread to again debate JP vs. Holcomb. I won that debate last season when the Bills should have let the kid play, get his licks in (like Eli), and if there was no real improvement, after a full 16 game season, than pick Jay Cutler or Matt Leinart in the draft, instead of having yet another year of QB controversy on our hands.

[TacklingDummy]

Re: Losman to start.

I won that debate last season when the Bills should have let the kid play, get his licks in (like Eli), and if there was no real improvement, .

How did you win the debate when you were wrong?

Even I (one who knows JP is a bust) realize that keeping JP in after posting back to back 75 yard passing games, again 75 STINKING yards, would not be good for JPs confidence if there was any hope at all he would be a good QB in the NFL. JP had to be yanked and if there is one thing Mularkey did right it was that.

[TacklingDummy]

Re: Losman to start.

All in all, unfortunately, I don't think we have the long term solution at QB on this roster right now. I feel Holcomb will win out in training camp which is pretty much a certainty.

I agree. The Bills long term solution at QB is not on the roster right now. Hopefully next year Brady Quinn will be a Bill.

If Holcomb starts the Bills won't have a bad enough record to get Quinn. Im hoping JP starts and the Bills can lock up the #1 pick along with it.