Is Anyone Else Concerned....

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Is anyone else concerned about how many of the Bills' returning veteran players--players who are supposed to be team leaders and role models for the rookies and younger guys--decided to miss the team's second OTA? Especially after last season this is sending up a lot of "red flags" for me....

I know that these are voluntary practices and that, under the CBA, the vets are not obligated to show up. But, this is a new coaching staff that is implementing a new offense and a totally different defensive scheme. I know that most of the team has been working out in Buffalo at least on and off during the off-season, but this is really only the second time that the the team has been able to run through the different new plays and schemes as a group and I just can't believe that every one of these players has the new stuff down pat to such an extent that they or the team can afford for them to be skipping these practices.

Now, I can see some of the guys who are absent not showing up: Parrish tweaked a hammy and sometimes when a guy is hurt, it is best for him to stay away; Vincent as President of the Players Association has to skip at least one session just to let all of the other players know that they don't have to show up because these OTAs are supposed to be voluntary; Spikes needs to be near his MD and concentrate on his rehab at this point; etc.

But, it's the large number of veterans who decided to skip this particular OTA and who some of them are that bothers me: Schobel is going to have to be a key player and leader of this defense; the same for Clements (although I give him credit for skipping Disney World with his family to come in to the first OTA right after signing) who should be trying to justify why he should get paid the kind of money he is looking to sign for; Villarial--they may want to lessen his workload to keep him healthy and he may know the offense already, but he has to be a leader for all of the young offensive linemen the Bills are trying to develop; I know McGahee is participating in the Miami workout sessions, but, as with Shockey last year, he needs to be at the OTAs to familiarize himself with the new offense and possibly a new QB, as well as show some respect for the coaches, if he wants to be the lead-dog of this offense, which he hasn't even really practiced in or seen yet, and have the breakout year that he will need to get more money; and, then, of course, there's Fletcher--who, unless he is meeting with and privately mentoring his workout partners Whitner and Youboty while they are forbidden by the NCAA to attend the OTAs, should be acting like the leader of the defense (which, in Spikes' absence, he IS) and setting a good example for the rest of the team.

What worries me, especially in light of Fletcher's recent comments reported by msn.foxsports about the Bills' QB situation last season, is that a lot of these guys could very well be the players who supported last season's lockerroom "insurrection" that ruined the Bills' season. Regardless of where you stand on the whole Losman/Holcomb issue and all that it entailed, ultimately you have to recognize that what happened last season was that a fairly large segment of the Bills lockerroom disagreed with the GM and HC on what they wanted the team to do and decided not to "buy into the program", but rather to try to force the HC to do what they wanted the team to do. Ultimately, they succeeded in getting the HC to succumb to their wishes and, as a result, the team lost respect for the HC and GM to the extent that some of them began to openly defy them. In the course of all of this, the Bills' season went down the tubes and whatever promise the team may have had evaporated.

What concerns me is that, while these OTAs are indeed voluntary, by not showing up for this second OTA, these veterans not only seem to be showing a lack of respect for the new GM and coaches, but for the new offensive and defensive systems that they are putting into place. It's almost as if they showed up at the first OTA sessions and saw what the coaches are trying to do, etc. and decided that they didn't like it and weren't going to show up for the second OTA sessions as a way of letting the new regime know that they don't like the new program and aren't going to buy into it any more than they bought into the program last season. If this is the case, IMHO this does not bode well for the progress of the Bills' rebuilding program and means that it will take longer for Levy and Jauron to be able to return the team to respectability and put together a team capable of winning a title.

It seems obvious from Jauron's comments about Willis that he (and by extension, Levy) knows exactly who is at the OTAs and who isn't and that he isn't too pleased by the no-shows even though he can't do anything about it because these OTAs are, by contract, voluntary. If the absences of some, any or all of these veterans have anything to do with a effort on those players' parts to express a disapproval with what the team and coaches are trying to do, I do not expect Jauron or Levy to knuckle-under to the players the way that M.Mularkey did last year. On the contrary, I would expect Levy and Jauron to be taking names and keeping an eye on those players with the intention of moving them out and replacing them as soon as possible before they can "infect" the rookies and other young players that the Bills intend to build their team around. Still, if they have to go that route, it will slow the process of turning the team around and make it take longer for Levy and Jauron to build a team that has the character and leadership necessary to win a championship.

Like most Bills fans, I want the Bills to win a Super Bowl as soon as possible--and at my age and with my health I have a lot less time than most Bills fans do to see them win a Super Bowl in my lifetime!--so I don't want to see anything happen that will slow down the rebuilding of this team. And, that's why the absence of these veterans from this past week's OTA sessions concerns me. Everyone associated with the Bills needs to be on the same page to get this team turned around as quickly as possible and I expect Levy and Jauron to replace any players that they don't think will buy into their program. If some of these players aren't willing to buy into the program, it's going to take more time for the Bills to replace the talent and potential leadership that they could bring to the team if they did---and, because I don't want to have to wait that much longer, this definitely bothers me.

What are your thoughts?

[ICE74129]

Here is how this goes. DJ and Marv don't give a SH@! who the players want as QB. They cause hell about it, they are gone. The major instigators of that locker room issue aren't on this team anymore.

I think the best approach is this, if younger/ Other players are more up to speed on the playbook and in better condition....they start over established Veterans. Hey you dont' have to show up, but the Bills have to put the most prepared players on the field. Both are FACTS.

[BuffaloBillsStampede]

I agree with ICE, but we can't afford to not have Schobel in the starting lineup, or Fletcher for that matter. I would rather have McGahee obviously, but the A-Train isn't a bad option to have on the team. I really can't see them benching the starters for this. If they don't show to the mandatory camps then maybe.

[Jan Reimers]

The veterans should be here, no doubt, to learn the new systems, get acquainted with the new coaches, interact with their teammates, and show the kind of leadership that this team will need to win.

I'm fairly steamed that a bunch of overpaid prima donnas, who have been off since early January, can't show up for a few days of OTAs. It doesn't bode well for our attitude going into this season.

[ICE74129]

Guys bottom line....the theme this offseason is 'competition' right? Ok then now its up to Marv and DJ to prove it. If the 'starters' aren't here then they aren't competing right?

Then they aren't starters. The guys where were here busting their asses and competing this offseason at the OTA's will start.

Look Clements, Schobel, Fletcher etal, are not here getting in shape, learning the system and the other guys are. According to marv and DJ NO ONE is guaranteed a starting spot right? Or is that just the QB's?

I guess we will see soon enough.

[Mr. Pink]

What worries me more is players like Whitner and Youboty who aren't at these voluntary practices. There the one's that really need to be there, not London Fletcher or Nate Clements who have been in this league for years already.

[RockStar36]

I'm pretty sure Whitner and Youboty aren't allowed to be there. Same thing w/ Santonio Holmes and Pittsburgh. He isn't allowed to be there till June....or July.

[ICE74129]

I'm pretty sure Whitner and Youboty aren't allowed to be there. Same thing w/ Santonio Holmes and Pittsburgh. He isn't allowed to be there till June....or July.

Agreed. OSU has a deal where they can't come until the spring session lets out. But they can be sent tape, playbook etc that I am sure thier coaches there are helping them with.

[ParanoidAndroid]

It's a long offseason folks. I don't think there is anything to read into. If players are half-a**ing sessions in late June and July, then I'll start to worry.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

The deal with Whitner, Youboty and Ellison is that they are forbidden by rule from attending these OTAs.

As a result of an agreement made with the NCAA, the NFL passed a rule that college players are not allowed to attend OTAs other than the "rookie" OTA, which is intended to be an initiation to the league, until their university's final exams are over. Under this rule, Whitner, Youboty and Ellison cannot join the Bills or participate in the OTAs until their schools' final exams are finished. It's not that they don't want to attend or that they are skipping these sessions, it is that they are simply not allowed to do so by the league. Whitner and Youboty will be able to attend the last set of OTAs in June because Ohio St. will be done with their exams by then, but Ellison won't be able to attend any of the OTAs because Oregon State doesn't finish its exams until 16 June. That's a real setback for these three rookies, but there's nothing that they or the Bills can do about it. So, their absences can be forgiven.

The vets on the other hand.....

[ICE74129]

It's a long offseason folks. I don't think there is anything to read into. If players are half-a**ing sessions in late June and July, then I'll start to worry.

the offseason started about the 2nd week in January. Its now almost June. Last time I checked we are almost 6 months into the offseason.

So don't worry about the first 6 months, as long as they show up about a week or two before camp all is good.

Yeah I forgot you can get 7 months worth of training in 4 weeks.....

[ParanoidAndroid]

they just started implementing the playbook. From January to April, it's all about staying in shape which our vets have been very faithful about doing. Get worried, get pissed if you want to.....have fun with that.

[Michael82]

BUMP! :ontome:

[The Spaz]

:rofl:

[raphael120]

I think its important for the vets to show up just to set a good example.

[gil]

Well, we did go 7-9 last year, so it's good to see near 100% attendance this year.

[BILLSROCK1212]

Schobel and Walker worry me

[patmoran2006]

Again, Mikey.

Not understanding the PURPOSE of bringing these back up.

Is it to show that it's not a big deal? Im seriously confused.

[feelthepain]

Is anyone else concerned about how many of the Bills' returning veteran players--players who are supposed to be team leaders and role models for the rookies and younger guys--decided to miss the team's second OTA? Especially after last season this is sending up a lot of "red flags" for me....

I know that these are voluntary practices and that, under the CBA, the vets are not obligated to show up. But, this is a new coaching staff that is implementing a new offense and a totally different defensive scheme. I know that most of the team has been working out in Buffalo at least on and off during the off-season, but this is really only the second time that the the team has been able to run through the different new plays and schemes as a group and I just can't believe that every one of these players has the new stuff down pat to such an extent that they or the team can afford for them to be skipping these practices.

Now, I can see some of the guys who are absent not showing up: Parrish tweaked a hammy and sometimes when a guy is hurt, it is best for him to stay away; Vincent as President of the Players Association has to skip at least one session just to let all of the other players know that they don't have to show up because these OTAs are supposed to be voluntary; Spikes needs to be near his MD and concentrate on his rehab at this point; etc.

But, it's the large number of veterans who decided to skip this particular OTA and who some of them are that bothers me: Schobel is going to have to be a key player and leader of this defense; the same for Clements (although I give him credit for skipping Disney World with his family to come in to the first OTA right after signing) who should be trying to justify why he should get paid the kind of money he is looking to sign for; Villarial--they may want to lessen his workload to keep him healthy and he may know the offense already, but he has to be a leader for all of the young offensive linemen the Bills are trying to develop; I know McGahee is participating in the Miami workout sessions, but, as with Shockey last year, he needs to be at the OTAs to familiarize himself with the new offense and possibly a new QB, as well as show some respect for the coaches, if he wants to be the lead-dog of this offense, which he hasn't even really practiced in or seen yet, and have the breakout year that he will need to get more money; and, then, of course, there's Fletcher--who, unless he is meeting with and privately mentoring his workout partners Whitner and Youboty while they are forbidden by the NCAA to attend the OTAs, should be acting like the leader of the defense (which, in Spikes' absence, he IS) and setting a good example for the rest of the team.

What worries me, especially in light of Fletcher's recent comments reported by msn.foxsports about the Bills' QB situation last season, is that a lot of these guys could very well be the players who supported last season's lockerroom "insurrection" that ruined the Bills' season. Regardless of where you stand on the whole Losman/Holcomb issue and all that it entailed, ultimately you have to recognize that what happened last season was that a fairly large segment of the Bills lockerroom disagreed with the GM and HC on what they wanted the team to do and decided not to "buy into the program", but rather to try to force the HC to do what they wanted the team to do. Ultimately, they succeeded in getting the HC to succumb to their wishes and, as a result, the team lost respect for the HC and GM to the extent that some of them began to openly defy them. In the course of all of this, the Bills' season went down the tubes and whatever promise the team may have had evaporated.

What concerns me is that, while these OTAs are indeed voluntary, by not showing up for this second OTA, these veterans not only seem to be showing a lack of respect for the new GM and coaches, but for the new offensive and defensive systems that they are putting into place. It's almost as if they showed up at the first OTA sessions and saw what the coaches are trying to do, etc. and decided that they didn't like it and weren't going to show up for the second OTA sessions as a way of letting the new regime know that they don't like the new program and aren't going to buy into it any more than they bought into the program last season. If this is the case, IMHO this does not bode well for the progress of the Bills' rebuilding program and means that it will take longer for Levy and Jauron to be able to return the team to respectability and put together a team capable of winning a title.

It seems obvious from Jauron's comments about Willis that he (and by extension, Levy) knows exactly who is at the OTAs and who isn't and that he isn't too pleased by the no-shows even though he can't do anything about it because these OTAs are, by contract, voluntary. If the absences of some, any or all of these veterans have anything to do with a effort on those players' parts to express a disapproval with what the team and coaches are trying to do, I do not expect Jauron or Levy to knuckle-under to the players the way that M.Mularkey did last year. On the contrary, I would expect Levy and Jauron to be taking names and keeping an eye on those players with the intention of moving them out and replacing them as soon as possible before they can "infect" the rookies and other young players that the Bills intend to build their team around. Still, if they have to go that route, it will slow the process of turning the team around and make it take longer for Levy and Jauron to build a team that has the character and leadership necessary to win a championship.

Like most Bills fans, I want the Bills to win a Super Bowl as soon as possible--and at my age and with my health I have a lot less time than most Bills fans do to see them win a Super Bowl in my lifetime!--so I don't want to see anything happen that will slow down the rebuilding of this team. And, that's why the absence of these veterans from this past week's OTA sessions concerns me. Everyone associated with the Bills needs to be on the same page to get this team turned around as quickly as possible and I expect Levy and Jauron to replace any players that they don't think will buy into their program. If some of these players aren't willing to buy into the program, it's going to take more time for the Bills to replace the talent and potential leadership that they could bring to the team if they did---and, because I don't want to have to wait that much longer, this definitely bothers me.

What are your thoughts?

In contrast, none of the Dolphin players missed any OTA's without medical excuse or a family matter. I know this was about the Bills, but this is why I have issues with the the way the Bill players want to leave, are unhappy, don't give full effort. It's up to the coaching staff to make this a "mandatory" non-mandatory OTA.

[X-Era]

Is anyone else concerned about how many of the Bills' returning veteran players--players who are supposed to be team leaders and role models for the rookies and younger guys--decided to miss the team's second OTA? Especially after last season this is sending up a lot of "red flags" for me....

I know that these are voluntary practices and that, under the CBA, the vets are not obligated to show up. But, this is a new coaching staff that is implementing a new offense and a totally different defensive scheme. I know that most of the team has been working out in Buffalo at least on and off during the off-season, but this is really only the second time that the the team has been able to run through the different new plays and schemes as a group and I just can't believe that every one of these players has the new stuff down pat to such an extent that they or the team can afford for them to be skipping these practices.

Now, I can see some of the guys who are absent not showing up: Parrish tweaked a hammy and sometimes when a guy is hurt, it is best for him to stay away; Vincent as President of the Players Association has to skip at least one session just to let all of the other players know that they don't have to show up because these OTAs are supposed to be voluntary; Spikes needs to be near his MD and concentrate on his rehab at this point; etc.

But, it's the large number of veterans who decided to skip this particular OTA and who some of them are that bothers me: Schobel is going to have to be a key player and leader of this defense; the same for Clements (although I give him credit for skipping Disney World with his family to come in to the first OTA right after signing) who should be trying to justify why he should get paid the kind of money he is looking to sign for; Villarial--they may want to lessen his workload to keep him healthy and he may know the offense already, but he has to be a leader for all of the young offensive linemen the Bills are trying to develop; I know McGahee is participating in the Miami workout sessions, but, as with Shockey last year, he needs to be at the OTAs to familiarize himself with the new offense and possibly a new QB, as well as show some respect for the coaches, if he wants to be the lead-dog of this offense, which he hasn't even really practiced in or seen yet, and have the breakout year that he will need to get more money; and, then, of course, there's Fletcher--who, unless he is meeting with and privately mentoring his workout partners Whitner and Youboty while they are forbidden by the NCAA to attend the OTAs, should be acting like the leader of the defense (which, in Spikes' absence, he IS) and setting a good example for the rest of the team.

What worries me, especially in light of Fletcher's recent comments reported by msn.foxsports about the Bills' QB situation last season, is that a lot of these guys could very well be the players who supported last season's lockerroom "insurrection" that ruined the Bills' season. Regardless of where you stand on the whole Losman/Holcomb issue and all that it entailed, ultimately you have to recognize that what happened last season was that a fairly large segment of the Bills lockerroom disagreed with the GM and HC on what they wanted the team to do and decided not to "buy into the program", but rather to try to force the HC to do what they wanted the team to do. Ultimately, they succeeded in getting the HC to succumb to their wishes and, as a result, the team lost respect for the HC and GM to the extent that some of them began to openly defy them. In the course of all of this, the Bills' season went down the tubes and whatever promise the team may have had evaporated.

What concerns me is that, while these OTAs are indeed voluntary, by not showing up for this second OTA, these veterans not only seem to be showing a lack of respect for the new GM and coaches, but for the new offensive and defensive systems that they are putting into place. It's almost as if they showed up at the first OTA sessions and saw what the coaches are trying to do, etc. and decided that they didn't like it and weren't going to show up for the second OTA sessions as a way of letting the new regime know that they don't like the new program and aren't going to buy into it any more than they bought into the program last season. If this is the case, IMHO this does not bode well for the progress of the Bills' rebuilding program and means that it will take longer for Levy and Jauron to be able to return the team to respectability and put together a team capable of winning a title.

It seems obvious from Jauron's comments about Willis that he (and by extension, Levy) knows exactly who is at the OTAs and who isn't and that he isn't too pleased by the no-shows even though he can't do anything about it because these OTAs are, by contract, voluntary. If the absences of some, any or all of these veterans have anything to do with a effort on those players' parts to express a disapproval with what the team and coaches are trying to do, I do not expect Jauron or Levy to knuckle-under to the players the way that M.Mularkey did last year. On the contrary, I would expect Levy and Jauron to be taking names and keeping an eye on those players with the intention of moving them out and replacing them as soon as possible before they can "infect" the rookies and other young players that the Bills intend to build their team around. Still, if they have to go that route, it will slow the process of turning the team around and make it take longer for Levy and Jauron to build a team that has the character and leadership necessary to win a championship.

Like most Bills fans, I want the Bills to win a Super Bowl as soon as possible--and at my age and with my health I have a lot less time than most Bills fans do to see them win a Super Bowl in my lifetime!--so I don't want to see anything happen that will slow down the rebuilding of this team. And, that's why the absence of these veterans from this past week's OTA sessions concerns me. Everyone associated with the Bills needs to be on the same page to get this team turned around as quickly as possible and I expect Levy and Jauron to replace any players that they don't think will buy into their program. If some of these players aren't willing to buy into the program, it's going to take more time for the Bills to replace the talent and potential leadership that they could bring to the team if they did---and, because I don't want to have to wait that much longer, this definitely bothers me.

What are your thoughts?

Its a nice to have, not a have to have. Im not sure I care that much. Walker is a holdout, the new guys are all there. Its really for the new guys to our system.

Training camp? hell ya they better be there. If Walker is still a holdout, Id trade him again for a younger player. Id honestly take Gerrard Warren or someone like that for Walker. Hell Id sign Rayburn.

[Wys Guy]

We're a bit further off than a few well attended OTAs.

Reality check.

[The Spaz]

2 players are missing wow...

[DraftBoy]

2 players are missing wow...


Here is my question then...since when did we sink to that level that we shouldnt expect our best DL and leader to attend an OTA? I mean are we that bad and has our mentality sunken that low now, that we dont care anymore?

[The Spaz]

Here is my question then...since when did we sink to that level that we shouldnt expect our best DL and leader to attend an OTA? I mean are we that bad and has our mentality sunken that low now, that we dont care anymore?

Did I say I didn't care? I am not worried that it will effect his season. This is an OTA when it is voluntary. Coach said he will me there for the mini-camps which are mandatory.