Losman starts over

[The_Philster]

My how times have changed for J.P. Losman.

A year ago at this time, the Buffalo Bills quarterback was set to take over as the starter. At just 24, Losman was stepping into one of the most high-profile jobs in Western New York.

But after a 2005 season that saw Buffalo go 5-11 and Losman struggle as the starter, the franchise went through a major reorganization. more (http://www.tonawanda-news.com/sports/gnnsports_story_148000115.html)

[ICE74129]

My how times have changed for J.P. Losman.

A year ago at this time, the Buffalo Bills quarterback was set to take over as the starter. At just 24, Losman was stepping into one of the most high-profile jobs in Western New York.

But after a 2005 season that saw Buffalo go 5-11 and Losman struggle as the starter, the franchise went through a major reorganization. more (http://www.tonawanda-news.com/sports/gnnsports_story_148000115.html)

Competition, competition, competition. Now Marv and DJ....Apply that to your veterans that have skipped OTA's. They shouldn't be starters when July camp starts. Those who have been here and learning the system should have every chance to start.

[justasportsfan]

Competition, competition, competition. Now Marv and DJ....Apply that to your veterans that have skipped OTA's. They shouldn't be starters when July camp starts. Those who have been here and learning the system should have every chance to start.
Are you confused? Your post is self contradictory.

[ICE74129]

Are you confused? Your post is self contradictory.

No but comprehension seems to be a lacking trait for you. Those here start, those skiping camp dont regardless of tenure or pay.

[justasportsfan]

No but comprehension seems to be a lacking trait for you. Those here start, those skiping camp dont regardless of tenure or pay. It's a voluntary camp. Do you even know what that means? You want the coaches to decide on players based on a camp that's voluntary? That's pretty stupid.



Yes, there will be competition but in case you missed it, there are still other camps in the future but you don't bench them because they aren't here for VOLUNTARY camp. It's at those camps that matters the most. They will compete but they shouldn't be benched like YOU say.


The bills aren't the only team with missing vets whether or not there is a new system.

I don't know how things are being ran in your highschool camp but rest assured it isn't the way things are ran in the NFL.

[tat2dmike77]

Don't argue with ICE he knows all and sees all he is even watching you right now :evil:

Well if he EARNS the job then fine if not then he can sit his ass on the bench and watch.

[justasportsfan]

Don't argue with ICE he knows all and sees all he is even watching you right now :evil:

Well if he EARNS the job then fine if not then he can sit his ass on the bench and watch.
If players were to be benched right now because they weren't at voluntary camp , then they should call it a mandatroy camp. I know my english is bad but I know the difference between madatory and voluntary.

BY ice's stupid logic, the packers should bench Farve.

[tat2dmike77]

I agree Justa.

This is not a huge deal. This happens every year players want to work out at home or with other players. They still have 2 months of training camp to get to.

The logic makes no sense. So because some rookie or 2nd string guy shows up to all the camps he should be handed the starting job cause he showed up to camps. That makes no sense either. Thats why they have training camp to prove yourself. Thats why they play those meaningless preseason games.

[Philagape]

Actually, if I were a coach, participants at a voluntary camp would win major points. Showing up when you don't have to is a measure of character and commitment to the team. And of course, the earlier you pick up a new system and the more you practice it, the more advantageous it is.

[justasportsfan]

Actually, if I were a coach, participants at a voluntary camp would win major points. .
that's it. All they get is good graces from the coach but if inspite of being there, if they don't beat out the ones that weren't there they shouldn't start either.

[SquishDaFish]

Ice these are VOLUNTARTY OTAs. They dont have to be there dude. Yes it is nice if everyone shows up but no team has Every guy show up EVER! When Mini Camp opens and someone doesnt show up its a different story.

[ICE74129]

It's a voluntary camp. Do you even know what that means? You want the coaches to decide on players based on a camp that's voluntary? That's pretty stupid.

Yes they are voluntary, yes they can't make them be here. But YES coaches DO Change starters based on who attends. I'm sorry you don't have the ability to comprehend why.



Yes, there will be competition but in case you missed it, there are still other camps in the future but you don't bench them because they aren't here for VOLUNTARY camp. It's at those camps that matters the most. They will compete but they shouldn't be benched like YOU say.

Yes you do and yes coaching staffs do. You dont' automatically GIVE someone a position. If you have a guy that has been here all season he should start over a guy not here.


The bills aren't the only team with missing vets whether or not there is a new system.

And you think I give a **** what other teams do or dont do why? BTW...if all of our guys were here busting ass, wouldn't that possibly make us better and ahead in the game of those other teams? What a concept.

I don't know how things are being ran in your highschool camp but rest assured it isn't the way things are ran in the NFL.

Well when I coached in College the kids got together on their own and wanted to work on what we did so they could be successful. BTW my guys are getting ready to attend a 'voluntary' camp June 5th though August 5th. So far we have had 97% of our kids already on the team (not counting incoming freshmen) that have already paid for the camp. Its called a desire to win vs being an over paid, selfish *****.



Post edited due to a violation of the ToS. ~Cntrygal

[ICE74129]

that's it. All they get is good graces from the coach but if inspite of being there, if they don't beat out the ones that weren't there they shouldn't start either.

And they automatically start over those not there. 1 player works his ass off all offseason with you. Another player (aka current starter doesnt) You start the guy that has been here.

[ICE74129]

Ice these are VOLUNTARTY OTAs. They dont have to be there dude. Yes it is nice if everyone shows up but no team has Every guy show up EVER! When Mini Camp opens and someone doesnt show up its a different story.

I will say again, they dont' start. its that simple. If you have a DT that has been here all offseason learning the new system, working with the Strength coach and busting his ass, he starts. The current starter now is a backup regardless of pay.

Yeah there is a CBA that allows these punks to go sit on a beach and get lazy and fat. Tough ****! Last time I checked you play the most prepared players so you can WIN.


Post edited due to a violation of the ToS. ~Cntrygal

[The_Philster]

And they automatically start over those not there. 1 player works his ass off all offseason with you. Another player (aka current starter doesnt) You start the guy that has been here.
explain why Bruce Smith was always the starter at RDE when he regularly sat out of OTAs and training camp, then.
Believe me, ICE...I agree that it's a bad thing that these guys aren't here...but it won't by any means lock them out of their starting spots. Those will be determined by how they perform in training camp and the preseason games. Some current starters will still show themselves to be more solid players in the new systems even with less practice/learning time than those who were here all the time.

[Throne Logic]

And they automatically start over those not there. 1 player works his ass off all offseason with you. Another player (aka current starter doesnt) You start the guy that has been here.

Teams are NOT allowed to discipline a player for not attending an OTA. The NFLPA would come down hard on the team if they suddenly removed a previous starter for no other reason than he didn't show up for an OTA.

That being said, I guarantee you that the coaching staff does take OTA participation and any other extra efforts into account when deciding between two otherwise equal players. But it won't lead to Willis loosing his starting job.

So give it a rest.

[ICE74129]

Teams are NOT allowed to discipline a player for not attending an OTA. The NFLPA would come down hard on the team if they suddenly removed a previous starter for no other reason than he didn't show up for an OTA.

That being said, I guarantee you that the coaching staff does take OTA participation and any other extra efforts into account when deciding between two otherwise equal players. But it won't lead to Willis loosing his starting job.

So give it a rest.

They can and should replace him. Bottom line the more prepared player plays.

[ICE74129]

explain why Bruce Smith was always the starter at RDE when he regularly sat out of OTAs and training camp, then.
Believe me, ICE...I agree that it's a bad thing that these guys aren't here...but it won't by any means lock them out of their starting spots. Those will be determined by how they perform in training camp and the preseason games. Some current starters will still show themselves to be more solid players in the new systems even with less practice/learning time than those who were here all the time.

You are kidding right? The Best RE possibly in football history? You want to compare what he did to clements, Schobel and Willis? Not only that, Bruce had something NONE of these players have...SELF MOTIVATION! He worked out like an SOB and came into camp primed and ready. Later in his career he sat more to preserve himself for the season. But again we are talking about a player that took pride in being the best and worked his ass off to do so.

Oh and go pull some of your old SHOUT issues. Several refrences to Bruce being at OBD and workout out in the offseason on his own. That vs running around Miami, knocking up women, and doing TV shows.

[The_Philster]

and how do we know that the players who weren't there this past week haven't been working out on their own? :rolleyes:
Point is, you made the absolutely stupid assertion that a player will lose his spot based on not showing up for voluntary OTAs. You try to pawn yourself off here as some great football mind but that's one of the most ridiculous assertions that I've seen in the past 4 years we've had the Zone up. The only thing that missing the OTAs will do for those players is set them back...there's still plenty of time before the season starts for them to catch up and pass those who are keeping their starting spots warm

[TacklingDummy]

They can and should replace him. Bottom line the more prepared player plays.

Bottom Line: The more talented player plays.

[thebuffalobills4]

great read phil:cheers:

[justasportsfan]

And they automatically start over those not there. 1 player works his ass off all offseason with you. Another player (aka current starter doesnt) You start the guy that has been here.
NO! You start the best players. PERIOD! What is it you don't understand? I don't care if Jackson or Shaud williams lives in the facility. This isn't college and you seriously need to stop watching RUDY. Whoever wins the COMPETITION at camp and preseason starts. PERIOD.

[BuffaloBillsStampede]

If we start Josh Stamer over London Fletcher I will ***** slap Dick Jauron in the face.

[patmoran2006]

Am I hearing correctly? Am I hearing that guys like Willis and Fletcher shouldn't be starting because they are not at a VOLUNTARY camp?

[TacklingDummy]

Am I hearing correctly? Am I hearing that guys like Willis and Fletcher shouldn't be starting because they are not at a VOLUNTARY camp?

It's Ice theory on coaching. You know how he does it with his Pop Warner kids that he coaches? If kids don't show up to practice then the kid doesn't start.

[TigerJ]

If a player doesn't show up for OTAs it can affect his ability to pick up the new system. That can affect his play on the field. If it does so too much, the team is justified in starting someone else. It's not punishment, it has to do with trying to win.

[patmoran2006]

Tiger:
I am not condoning a player not going to a voluntary camp. In most cases, they really should be there, especially with a new staff. Sometimes players have a legit excuse. Sometimes they choose to stay closer to home to work out.

If it were up to me, every player on the roster would have been in Buffalo working out. However, it doesnt work that way; not just for the Bills but for any team.

To even suggest that A-Train or Gates should start ahead of Willis because he's not at OTA is ridiculous, topped only by the same motions with players like Fletcher, Clements and Vincent (and Shoebel, shall I go on?)

[justasportsfan]

If a player doesn't show up for OTAs it can affect his ability to pick up the new system. That can affect his play on the field. If it does so too much, the team is justified in starting someone else. It's not punishment, it has to do with trying to win. I agree. Being in OTA's helps a player grasp the system faster than the others. That's the risk guys like Willis are taking. If their absence hurts their ability to perform in training camp , they end up with the 2nd and 3rd team and work their way up.

However, you don't bench them just because they were absent and yet perform better than those who were there. BY ICE's logic, "he who kisses his butt best wins the job".

JP Losman was at the facility all year last year. Didn't help him on the field , did it? Coy Wire is a gym rat and is always there. Anyone think he should win the starting job? In the end , it's what they do on the field on gameday and not because they were not present in VOLUNTARY camp.

[ICE74129]

It's Ice theory on coaching. You know how he does it with his Pop Warner kids that he coaches? If kids don't show up to practice then the kid doesn't start.

Its done at every level of football by good coaches. Only pusses don't do it and just GIVE a NAME their starting jobs.

[ICE74129]

NO! You start the best players. PERIOD! What is it you don't understand? I don't care if Jackson or Shaud williams lives in the facility. This isn't college and you seriously need to stop watching RUDY. Whoever wins the COMPETITION at camp and preseason starts. PERIOD.

Comprehension is a real grasp for you. It is more than obvious you aren't now nor have ever been a successful athlete, know little about football but yet you take up board space.

[The_Philster]

He knows a hell of a lot more about how things work in the NFL than you do, apparently :rolleyes:

[ICE74129]

He knows a hell of a lot more about how things work in the NFL than you do, apparently :rolleyes:

LMAO not even close. But then again some have become used to the futility of whats called Buffalo Bills football so I wouldn't expect most to be up to speed. This hasn't been ran like a Real NFL team since Ralph was moron and fired Polian.

[The_Philster]

The fact that you think players will get benched purely because they didn't participate in voluntary OTAs is beyond ridiculous. Can you name one player in history that's happemed to? If a player loses his starting job to someone else, it's because he was outplayed by him in training camp and preseason...simple as that

[justasportsfan]

Comprehension is a real grasp for you. It is more than obvious you aren't now nor have ever been a successful athlete, know little about football but yet you take up board space . Haha! You think you know me based on what's posted on a mb? That alone shows how stupid your way of thinking is and is futher making you look like a pop warner coach more than ever.

I don't go around mbs desperately trying to tell people "i'm a football coach and I know better than Marv". There are several posters here who know football more than you do. Sometimes even Skooby makes more sense than you do.

Ingtar is an NFL scout and he doesn't go around mbs shoving his opinions on anyone even though he works at an NFL level. You on the other hand don't even get any respect on any mb you post in beause of your dumb posts and yet insists you know more than anyone and yet contradict yourself all the time. Your posts alone in this thread shows youre a fake. Anyone can be a pop warner coach.

Everytime you get owned you ignore the post and I'll prove that to you in a second.

You wish you were even half the athlete I was and am. If only you knew. But unlike you, I'm not gonna tell you what my background is because I'm not insecure like you are. You know how it is, anyone who keeps trying to put himself high and above everyone else is usually insecure.

[justasportsfan]

The fact that you think players will get benched purely because they didn't participate in voluntary OTAs is beyond ridiculous. Can you name one player in history that's happemed to? Here's an example of ignoring a post because you got owned. Oh wait, maybe you're still trying to google the information. :snicker:

[justasportsfan]

LMAO not even close. But then again some have become used to the futility of whats called Buffalo Bills football so I wouldn't expect most to be up to speed. This hasn't been ran like a Real NFL team since Ralph was moron and fired Polian.And why aren't you working at an NFL level ? That's because you're a pop warner coach and that's all you'll ever be.

[billsburgh]

They can and should replace him. Bottom line the more prepared player plays.
regardless of talent? I agree with you that they should be here, but wouldn't having a less talented player on the field give you less of a chance of winning?