The Patriots traded Bethel Johnson to NO...

[Ickybaluky]

... for DT/DE Jonathan Sullivan.

Basically, it is two teams trading problem children.

Bethel has speed to burn, but has never been able to consistently contribute at WR and spent time regularly in Belichick's doghouse.

Sullivan was the #6 overall pick in the draft a couple years ago, but has struggled to control his weight and apply himself.

Perhaps a change of scenery will help both players.

[YardRat]

Why would NE want another DT?

[Ickybaluky]

Why would NE want another DT?

He'll probably play DE for them.

I think they have written off Bethel, and this was getting something in return for him. If they can get him motivated, he has top-10 talent, so there is the carrot.

He played with Seymour at Georgia, so perhaps putting him in the right environment will pay off in a big way.

He was a dog in New Orleans, though.

[Ickybaluky]

Here is a LINK (http://www.patriots.com/news/index.cfm?ac=latestnewsdetail&pid=19431&pcid=41)

[Jan Reimers]

... for DT/DE Jonathan Sullivan.

Basically, it is two teams trading problem children.

Perhaps a change of scenery will help both players.
Or finish them off.

[eyedog]

+1 for New England again.
Two underachievers, I'd rather take a chance with the d-lineman.
And as stated maybe Seymour can help straighten him out.

[Goobylal]

The Patriots haven't fared any better at reclaiming busts. Last year they were supposed to have made a great move signing WR David Terrell, because of his lofty draft status and having been a teammate of Brady, the god, in Michigan. Basically you cannot change a person's character and Sullivan just doesn't have it in him.

[ICE74129]

The Patriots haven't fared any better at reclaiming busts. Last year they were supposed to have made a great move signing WR David Terrell, because of his lofty draft status and having been a teammate of Brady, the god, in Michigan. Basically you cannot change a person's character and Sullivan just doesn't have it in him.

No but they have won 3 of the last 5 superbowls with that coaching staff, GM and owner so I think I would put more stock into what they do than say....Marv and the Bills esp at this point.

[SquishDaFish]

Ice go be a fan of a different team bro. We as Bills fans are getting sick of seeing your anti bills messages and negative reactions to everything. GOD!

[Michael82]

No but they have won 3 of the last 5 superbowls with that coaching staff, GM and owner so I think I would put more stock into what they do than say....Marv and the Bills esp at this point.
wrong, they won 3 out of 5 Super Bowls with the old staff, the one that they don't have anymore. It included OC Charlie Weis (now at Notre Dame), DC Romeo Crennel (Cleveland head coach), and defensive assistant coach Eric Mangini (NY Jets head coach).

If anyone thinks that team is going anywhere again, I got a bridge to sell them. They're done. Face it, the magic is over. :D

[Goobylal]

You got it, Mikey. And if the losses of Weis and Crennel were not enough, they lost THE key piece of their SB years, Adam Vinatieri, along with guys like McGinest, Givens, and Ted Johnson.

[Jan Reimers]

You got it, Mikey. And if the losses of Weis and Crennel were not enough, they lost THE key piece of their SB years, Adam Vinatieri, along with guys like McGinest, Givens, and Ted Johnson.
But they still have Tedy Bruschi, the savior of western civilization as we know it.

[Goobylal]

True.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

The Pats probably feel that, if Seymour can motivate Sullivan to play with him like they did together at UGa, they will have a solid guy that they can rotate in behind Wilfork in the middle. If not, they really haven't lost much because they weren't getting that much from Bethel Johnson and had already pretty much replaced him as a kick returner (with Hobbs and Dwight) and as a receiver (with Caldwell--who has been doing well in the OTAs--Dwight and Chad Jackson, as well as T.Brown). So it was a no-risk deal for them.

Johnson gives the Saints some depth at WR, where Joe Horn hurt most of last year (as was Az Hakim, although I don't know if he's still with them) and Donte Stallworth recently had a problem that ticked off the coaching staff. It could also possibly signal the end of Aaron Stecker's days in NO as well: Stecker was their primary KO return man last season (Stallworth returned some, but only because it was an emergency situation). Still, Johnson is going to have to show that he can stay healthy (which may be difficult because the turf in the Superdome has not been kind to a lot of players in the past) and be a better WR than he showed in NE.

If the change of scenery works for both players, I give the advantage to the Pats. But, with these two players, who knows...it's probably the last real chance for both of them to show that they deserve to be in the NFL.

[don137]

I agree with LBF. The Pats don't have much to lose here and playing with a former Bulldog may help his career. Really nothing to lose here.
This also shows you how important character is to complete a player. Many players without character fizzle out in the NFL with short careers despite having loads of talent. Sullivan and Johnson are two examples. NE is hoping the change of scenery will change Sullivan's character because he has talent.
This also shows why Levy values character so much when drafting a player. Levy realizes talent alone does not complete a player. This is why I think the high character players drafted by Buffalo really will have great careers and McCargo and Whitner will prove the critics wrong.

[Goobylal]

With the trade of BJ, the Pats have exactly ONE WR with experience in their system: Deion Branch, who by all accounts is holding-out because the Pats are lowballing him in contract discussions. Reche Caldwell has done nothing in the NFL and will need time to learn the system, as will rookie Chad Jackson. Beyond that they have no one else except for a load of underproducing TE's. And also considering that the Pats lost Tim Dwight, they're now down 2 returnmen.

Frankly if they'd traded one of their numerous extra DL for Sullivan, it would have made more sense. But hey, I'm glad they did it. Sullivan is a bust and the Pats haven't had success with reclaiming turds like him.

[Stewie]

genuflect

[Stewie]

And, I don't think sullivan has a motivation problem... his problem is that he get's way too motivated near food.

[Mr. Pink]

The funny part of this is....if we traded say josh reed for sullivan. You'd all be sitting here saying what a brilliant move it was and he'd bolster our d-line. Then you'd all remark on how a change of scenery would do his career wonders because he was a 1st round talent.

[ICE74129]

wrong, they won 3 out of 5 Super Bowls with the old staff, the one that they don't have anymore. It included OC Charlie Weis (now at Notre Dame), DC Romeo Crennel (Cleveland head coach), and defensive assistant coach Eric Mangini (NY Jets head coach).

If anyone thinks that team is going anywhere again, I got a bridge to sell them. They're done. Face it, the magic is over. :D

Really? Wasn't that NE in the playoffs just a few months ago? I know it sure wasn't buffalo.

Are the superbowls done? Most likely. but if you think they they are going to go tits up and not contend for the division each year with BB and Pioli running that team, forget the bridge you are on too much crack to one.

[ICE74129]

The funny part of this is....if we traded say josh reed for sullivan. You'd all be sitting here saying what a brilliant move it was and he'd bolster our d-line. Then you'd all remark on how a change of scenery would do his career wonders because he was a 1st round talent.

No joke. Just like Cullpepper to Miami. I guarantee most here would be screaming superbowl if WE got him.

[justasportsfan]

wrong, they won 3 out of 5 Super Bowls with the old staff, the one that they don't have anymore. It included OC Charlie Weis (now at Notre Dame), DC Romeo Crennel (Cleveland head coach), and defensive assistant coach Eric Mangini (NY Jets head coach).
Ice got owned by Mikey . Looks like pop warner coach doesn't "know it all" after all :snicker:

[justasportsfan]

I guarantee most here would be screaming superbowl if WE got him. Are you implying MOST posters here are homers?

[Ickybaluky]

With the trade of BJ, the Pats have exactly ONE WR with experience in their system: Deion Branch, who by all accounts is holding-out because the Pats are lowballing him in contract discussions. Reche Caldwell has done nothing in the NFL and will need time to learn the system, as will rookie Chad Jackson. Beyond that they have no one else except for a load of underproducing TE's. And also considering that the Pats lost Tim Dwight, they're now down 2 returnmen.

Frankly if they'd traded one of their numerous extra DL for Sullivan, it would have made more sense. But hey, I'm glad they did it. Sullivan is a bust and the Pats haven't had success with reclaiming turds like him.

They also have Troy Brown and Bam Childress returning. Their TE are far from underachieving. Ben Watson is going to be special.

The Pats questions pretty much revolve around defense, with depth at LB and concerns in the secondary. Offense will not be a problem. In fact, they will score a ton of points next year. They have a real good, young OL, a great QB, 2 talented RB and while they aren't real deep at WR they are great at TE and have several H-Back type players who should be effective in the passing game (Patrick Pass, Dave Thomas, Garrett Mills). They will play a lot of multiple TE sets and be able to create a lot of mismatches with their personnel, which is very versatile. Plus, their running game should be solid again with Dillon back healthy and the addition of Maroney.

Scoring points won't be a problem, and neither will stopping the run. Their issues mostly revolve around defending the pass.

As for the trade, it basically is just an attempt to salvage something for Johnson. Bethel's best year was his rookie year, he basically got worse each season. They had given up on him, as witnessed by the fact he was inactive for half the season and both playoff games last year.

They trade him for Sullivan and take a shot at turning him around. If it works, he is a very talented player at a premium position. If not, they get rid of him. Best case, he turns out like Gerard Warren did for Denver last season. Worse case, they get nothing for Bethel (which was going to happen anyway).

[ICE74129]

Are you implying MOST posters here are homers?

You know I am. Marv could trade away the next 5 first rounders we have for a 7th round pick to take a punter from Mid west inbred arkansas st and the clowns would be talking superbowl.

and YES it is that stupid on Bills message boards most of the time

[ICE74129]

Ice got owned by Mikey . Looks like pop warner coach doesn't "know it all" after all :snicker:

Really? Again I ask, was that New England playing in Denver in the 2nd round of the playoffs this year or were my eyes mistaken? All that turnover in coaching, players, injuries but they are still there.

And please tell me again, when was the last time the bills were in the playoffs? Thats what I thought.

[ICE74129]

The Pats questions pretty much revolve around defense, with depth at LB and concerns in the secondary. Offense will not be a problem. In fact, they will score a ton of points next year. They have a real good, young OL, a great QB, 2 talented RB and while they aren't real deep at WR they are great at TE and have several H-Back type players who should be effective in the passing game (Patrick Pass, Dave Thomas, Garrett Mills).

I hate you guys. Why couldn't Mills have gone somewhere else? Damn it!

[justasportsfan]

You know I am. Marv could trade away the next 5 first rounders we have for a 7th round pick to take a punter from Mid west inbred arkansas st and the clowns would be talking superbowl.

and YES it is that stupid on Bills message boards most of the timeFunny, I don't see anyone here predicting playoffs. Homers would do so. MOST of the posters here are not as self contradictory ,arrogant and full of hot air as you are. Let me change that, NONE of the posters here.

You're the only pop warner coach who claims that he knows more than Marv and yet can't even land a job as a ball boy with any NFL team. :crazy:

[justasportsfan]

Really? Again I ask, was that New England playing in Denver in the 2nd round of the playoffs this year or were my eyes mistaken? All that turnover in coaching, players, injuries but they are still there.

And please tell me again, when was the last time the bills were in the playoffs? Thats what I thought. Don't try to spin what you said.


No but they have won 3 of the last 5 superbowls with that coaching staff,. it's not the SAME coaching staff that won those sb's.

[ParanoidAndroid]

New England's offense is going to be scary IMO, but the defense has lost a lot of its brute force. I don't expect the Bills to be able to exploit that just yet, but if a QB finally rises above the rest and the line gels, we should be able to compete very soon.
If we are ever going to slow NE down on offense, Aaron Schobel has to be the second best DE on our roster. We need a Dwight Freeney or a Julius Peppers....how about the next Bruce Smith? :D

[ICE74129]

Funny, I don't see anyone here predicting playoffs. Homers would do so. MOST of the posters here are not as self contradictory ,arrogant and full of hot air as you are. Let me change that, NONE of the posters here.

You're the only pop warner coach who claims that he knows more than Marv and yet can't even land a job as a ball boy with any NFL team. :crazy:

How do you know? Do you know whom I have interviewed with? Do you know Who I know or what positions I have been offered or not offered? You know nothing about me period. You, as usual, are posting out your ass. From your repeated posting of 'Pop Warner' it is obvious you are too stupid to conprehend much of anything.

BTW, I don't want any part of coaching a bunch of spoiled assclowns that don't have to work hard and are given their starting positions based on where they were drafted. Those I coach EARN the jobs, nothing is given and you earn it week to week regardless.

[justasportsfan]

How do you know? Do you know whom I have interviewed with? Do you know Who I know or what positions I have been offered or not offered? You know nothing about me period. You, as usual, are posting out your ass. From your repeated posting of 'Pop Warner' it is obvious you are too stupid to conprehend much of anything.

. You're the one who calls most posters here Homers and I have yet to read anything that says we're going to the playoffs. You're the one who obviously lacks comprehension skills when reading posts. You ignore posts that you have no answer for.

I don't care who you interviewed with. You DON'T work at any NFL level. You are not qualified to hold Marv's depends. So stop trying to shove your credentials down our throats. You are NOTHING but another poster here on BZ. You're no different from skooby.

[ICE74129]

You're the one who calls most posters here Homers and I have yet to read anything that says we're going to the playoffs. You're the one who obviously lacks comprehension skills when reading posts. You ignore posts that you have no answer for.

I don't care who you interviewed with. You DON'T work at any NFL level. You are not qualified to hold Marv's depends. So stop trying to shove your credentials down our throats. You are NOTHING but another poster here on BZ. You're no different from skooby.

right Junior. More proof you dont' know anything. Like I said, you post out your butt and don't know who you talk to nor what they do.

[Michael82]

But they still have Tedy Bruschi, the savior of western civilization as we know it.
:lmao:

[Michael82]

With the trade of BJ, the Pats have exactly ONE WR with experience in their system: Deion Branch, who by all accounts is holding-out because the Pats are lowballing him in contract discussions. Reche Caldwell has done nothing in the NFL and will need time to learn the system, as will rookie Chad Jackson. Beyond that they have no one else except for a load of underproducing TE's. And also considering that the Pats lost Tim Dwight, they're now down 2 returnmen.

Frankly if they'd traded one of their numerous extra DL for Sullivan, it would have made more sense. But hey, I'm glad they did it. Sullivan is a bust and the Pats haven't had success with reclaiming turds like him.
I totally agree with you. After losing Givens in FA, and some others, I really figured that Bethel Johnson would step up this year or else they would find more receivers. Because let's face it, their offense usually runs a bunch of 3, 4 or 5 wide sets and right now other than Deion Branch and Reche Caldwell, they got a bunch of scrubs. I love it! IMO, this proves that we have finally seen the end of the Patriot reign. They have lost wayyy too much to be as dominant as they used to be. Adam Vinatieri was the final straw IMo.

[Ickybaluky]

New England's offense is going to be scary IMO, but the defense has lost a lot of its brute force.

They are strong up front.

Help could be on this way. This LINK (http://www.timesonline.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=16743508&BRD=2305&PAG=461&dept_id=478568&rfi=6) leads to an article discussing Ty Law cancelling an appearance at Tony Dorsett's golf tournament in Pennsylvania because he is close to signing a new deal. According to the article, the deal could either be with the Patriots or Cardinals.

[Michael82]

No joke. Just like Cullpepper to Miami. I guarantee most here would be screaming superbowl if WE got him.
Super Bowl!?!? :lmao:

You are on crack if you believe that we would think that. :::

[Ickybaluky]

I totally agree with you. After losing Givens in FA, and some others, I really figured that Bethel Johnson would step up this year or else they would find more receivers. Because let's face it, their offense counts on a bunch of 4 or 5 wide sets and right now other than Deion Branch and Reche Caldwell, they got a bunch of scrubs. I love it! IMO, this proves that we have finally seen the end of the Patriot reign. They have lost wayyy too much to be as dominant as they used to be. Adam Vinatieri was the final straw IMo.

I'll bet you they will be top-10 in both scoring and yardage on offense next year. They don't spread the field much anymore, they go multiple TE.

[Michael82]

I'll bet you they will be top-10 in both scoring and yardage on offense next year. They don't spread the field much anymore, they go multiple TE.
I'll take that bet. Whats the stakes? :$:

[Ickybaluky]

I'll take that bet. Whats the stakes? :$:

Whatever you want. However, I don't really have many zonebucks.

[ICE74129]

Super Bowl!?!? :lmao:

You are on crack if you believe that we would think that. :::

I guarandamntee you that some homers around here would have been saying superbowl had we got cullpepper. You know it as well.

[Michael82]

I guarandamntee you that some homers around here would have been saying superbowl had we got cullpepper. You know it as well.
I think you are totally overestimating the amount of big time homers here. This team is not even close to the Super Bowl and everyone knows that.

[justasportsfan]

I guarandamntee you that some homers around here would have been saying superbowl had we got cullpepper. You know it as well.Oh now, it's "some homers here " instead of "most posters here" . Look who's posting out of his Arse.

[tat2dmike77]

You're no different from skooby.

:lmao:

OWNED

[ICE74129]

Oh now, it's "some homers here " instead of "most posters here" . Look who's posting out of his Arse.

Man your posts take the word pathetic to whole new levels.

[ICE74129]

:lmao:

OWNED

That weak assed comment = owned to you? man you guys gotta step up your game.

[bledslow]

The majority of the core players are still in n.e.-And solid players like gay and harrison will be back from injuries this year and there's additions like warfield and possibly law. If it was'nt for horrible calls and missed calls in that denver playoff game,pats win the sb,because pitt was not beating the pats in n.e, and seattle would have been a joke.

Trow brown(can still get open when on the field) is still there along with branch,and watson and graham are getting better. we will see with jackson who i think can fill in the role givens left behind (givens was not exactly a world beater as it was) to an extent.pats never had dominate receivers to begin with.---(david patton(sp) might be released,he knows the pats system inside and out and might be picked back up)

bethal for sullivan was like trading horse c_hit for fly diahrear.