Thurman Gets it,

[ddaryl]

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060606/SPORTS03/606060347




(June 6, 2006) — BATAVIA — Thurman Thomas knows what it's like to be regarded as the best running back in the NFL. The former Buffalo Bill led the league in yards from scrimmage a record four consecutive seasons from 1989-92.
So how does the team's all-time leading rusher feel about Willis McGahee skipping all of the Bills off-season practices so far?

Thomas didn't mince words when asked about McGahee on Monday before teeing off in the 20th annual Jim Kelly Celebrity Classic at Terry Hills Golf Club.
"You know, those are those guys from the U," said Thomas, referring to players from the University of Miami. "They walk to a different beat. I wish he were at camp. He is basically the offense and they're putting in a new (system) and he should be a part of it."

The Bills, who will conduct another series of voluntary organized team activities this week and next week hold a mandatory camp, are holding their breath that McGahee will show.
Said Thomas: "I know when we played whether it was mandatory or voluntary, we showed up. "We didn't do a lot, but we showed up (laughter). Maybe it's a different breed now. But he (McGahee) is the main guy for the Bills' offense and if you want to be a true leader and if you call yourself the best back in the NFL, then you should act like it and show your true colors and be here."



Thurman Thomas is still one the great RB's this league has ever known. He knows what it takes to get to the Superbowl, and IMO MGahee just doesn't have the same heart.

This may be a dead hosre issue, but I'm glad its not going away.

Bruce Smith used to hold out on us, but this was well after he established himself as one of best DE's the league has ever known, but it was trainng camps he used to hold out of, I'm not sure about Bruce's voluntary camp attendance. Plus Bruce always held out for money, Willis is just not showing up.

IMO McGahee not being here will translate into a RB who is not a leader and a guy who when the chips are down doesn't have the heart or drive to be a consistent difference maker, or a game definer.

So the million dollar question. Will Willis show up at next weeks voluntary workout, or does he blow us off yet again? if he blows us off yet again will certain Bills fans still defend him ?

I really am interested in hearing all of Willis' reasons for not being here. I hope he shows up but even if he does I'm still sour on him. I expext our star RB to be here regulalry and to be a leader. I personbally won't pamper million dollar athletes, I expect them to be here.

I'll always root for WM as long as he's a Bill, but the writing is on the wall here, vets that blow off voluntary camps are not going to be Buffalo Bills for long during the Marv Levy era IMO.

[BillsFever21]

If he doesn't show up for the mandatory camp then there will be serious problems going on.

I would love for everyone to show up for voluntary camps but there are a lot of players that don't.

I have voluntary training classes and meetings at work. I don't get paid for them. I still show up though.

There might be other things I'd rather be doing but it makes you look lazy, less dedicated and less motivated to become better at your job if you don't attend.

I actually learn something at these too. I have learned things that has made me become better at my job. There are things these players could be learning too if they were there.

I'm not gonna sit here and keep whining about it though. It's not worth the time and energy and there is nothing we can do about it. That is their choice whether they wanna go or stay home.

[ICE74129]

I will say this again, Yeah Thurman, Jim, Bruce all had egos. The Difference is a SELF MOTIVATION to be the BEST. Sorry you can't put bruce in the same situational catigory as Willis. Bruce was at the facility busting his ass with Rusty Jones to be in the best shape possible. He was still here for meetings, etc. Willis is down at the U partying his ass off and doing the minimum possible.

These *******s from the U dont' care about being the best. Its a CLUB to them. When will fans get it. They all just want the money then come back to college every offseason to get thier asses kissed and treated like Gods. This instead of GRWOING UP and meeting the obligation to the team that is paying you all that jack. Teams aren't paying them to go down and screw off, they are paying them that money to try and be the best they can to help the TEAM win.

[Dont drink the water]

Willis just does not get it. He has been a mediocre back for what it cost the Bills - first round pick, dealing with scum of agent and one year of pay but no play - and despite his heralded "top three" talent LOTS of players fall in draft even without injuries for things such as work ethics and committment. RB is one of those positions which a top draft pick is not necessarily needed to find a quality back and Donahoe should not have chosen the headcase. It is not just not being unwilling to show up for volunteer training camp but the whole package and right now the sign reads "Discount on Aisle Three".

[don137]

What separates players like Thurman from Willis is Thurman was a team guy and was willing to do what it takes for the team. WM rather talk the talk than walk the walk. You lead by example and to me WM is not a leader. He should realize to be effective he needs to learn the system especially since it is a new system. WM also has shown that he is as dumb as rocks so he needs as long as possible to learn the system. Being physically fit is only half the makeup of a winner. To lead and know what you are suppose to be doing is the other half. He can be as fit working at the"U" with his buddies but if he wants to be great he needs to be here learning the system.

[eyedog]

I agree with all of you regarding Willis but lets not let off the other "leaders" who can't seem to make it either.

[Patti120]

I enjoyed Thurms leadership when he lost his helmet in the superbowl game. :)

[justasportsfan]

I wouldn't be surprised if both Marv and Dick let them go ahead and report whenever they are ready as long as they show up 150% for training camp. Marv always ran a laid back camp and Dick is a "players coach". It's uncharacteristic of Flectcher to take time off. :idunno:

[Stewie]

I will say this again, Yeah Thurman, Jim, Bruce all had egos. The Difference is a SELF MOTIVATION to be the BEST. Sorry you can't put bruce in the same situational catigory as Willis. Bruce was at the facility busting his ass with Rusty Jones to be in the best shape possible. He was still here for meetings, etc. Willis is down at the U partying his ass off and doing the minimum possible.

These *******s from the U dont' care about being the best. Its a CLUB to them. When will fans get it. They all just want the money then come back to college every offseason to get thier asses kissed and treated like Gods. This instead of GRWOING UP and meeting the obligation to the team that is paying you all that jack. Teams aren't paying them to go down and screw off, they are paying them that money to try and be the best they can to help the TEAM win.

Ice, one person can never be "the best" at a team sport while simultaneously ignoring practicing teammates.

Bruce was just one of the best DL of alltime.

Willis is looking more and more like a chump who just wants another signing bonus and a TV/Radio/Hip-hop career.

[ICE74129]

Ice, one person can never be "the best" at a team sport while simultaneously ignoring practicing teammates.

Bruce was just one of the best DL of alltime.

Willis is looking more and more like a chump who just wants another signing bonus and a TV/Radio/Hip-hop career.

I really dont' think the sob wants to play football. He just wants to collect a check and hang out at madden events with C Johnson and Edge and be on TV.

[Jan Reimers]

That's why Thurman is a Hall of Famer, and McGahee is a punk.

[Michael82]

That's why Thurman is a Hall of Famer, and McGahee is a punk.
EXACTLY! :bf1:

[tat2dmike77]

Willis is nothing more then the TO version of a RB

He shoots off at the mouth. Claims he is the greatest back in the league and wants nothing to do with his team. I say if he holds out trade his ass for a pick next year. I know who would take him? I dunno but if dallas is willing to sign TO then someone will take Baby TO

[ICE74129]

Willis is nothing more then the TO version of a RB

He shoots off at the mouth. Claims he is the greatest back in the league and wants nothing to do with his team. I say if he holds out trade his ass for a pick next year. I know who would take him? I dunno but if dallas is willing to sign TO then someone will take Baby TO

Yeah but Mike TO IS possibly the best damn WR out there. The guy mouths off then goes and catches 1500 yards and 15 TD's. Willis = Done nothing in this league but be an AVERAGE back.

[tat2dmike77]

Yeah but Mike TO IS possibly the best damn WR out there. The guy mouths off then goes and catches 1500 yards and 15 TD's. Willis = Done nothing in this league but be an AVERAGE back.

You get my point though

[TacklingDummy]

Bruce was at the facility busting his ass with Rusty Jones to be in the best shape possible. He was still here for meetings, etc. Willis is down at the U partying his ass off and doing the minimum possible.



How do you know Willis is not busting his ass working out somewhere else?

I remember seeing video's of Willis prior to the draft busting his ass working out to come back from his knee injury. And there were also video's of him working out busting his ass after the Bills drafted him.

[ICE74129]

You get my point though

Oh I agree with you but think Willis is even worse because he isn't a 'TO' type performer on the field.

[ICE74129]

How do you know Willis is not busting his ass working out somewhere else?

I remember seeing video's of Willis prior to the draft busting his ass working out to come back from his knee injury. And there were also video's of him working out busting his ass after the Bills drafted him.

Hell yeah he busted his ass after the injury, its all about the benjamins baby. After he got some jack in his pocket he said screw it.

how do I know he isn't busting ass? He went to THA U last year, and came back out of shape.

What cracks me up is how fans were ga ga over that video BB.com put up of them training down there. LMAO it was pure crap. Light assed plyo type workouts. Willis came back and was worse.

[Jan Reimers]

How do you know Willis is not busting his ass working out somewhere else?

He may very well be, but he could be doing the same thing at OBD AND getting to know the new coaches, the new schemes and his new teammates - not to mention showing some veteran leadership.

[BillsFever21]

You guys need to get over it. Sitting here *****ing everyday isn't gonna bring him to voluntary camp.

And why is it just Willis that everyone is getting so emotional over? There are 10 other veterans besides him that didn't show up. I don't here anyone *****ing about them.

Just because Willis goes on the NFLN and does a show everybody chose him. We don't know how hard he's working on his own. Most of the big time "U" stars workout together. If you can't handle that then I guess don't draft any big names from The U.

If you wanna cry about it for 10 hours a day on a message board at least be consistent with everybody.

[ICE74129]

You guys need to get over it. Sitting here *****ing everyday isn't gonna bring him to voluntary camp.

And why is it just Willis that everyone is getting so emotional over? There are 10 other veterans besides him that didn't show up. I don't here anyone *****ing about them.

Just because Willis goes on the NFLN and does a show everybody chose him. We don't know how hard he's working on his own. Most of the big time "U" stars workout together. If you can't handle that then I guess don't draft any big names from The U.

If you wanna cry about it for 10 hours a day on a message board at least be consistent with everybody.

I think all 11 vets need to be benched. Screw em'

[Jan Reimers]

I think all 11 vets need to be benched. Screw em'
I agree, ICE. This would be a great time for some veteran leadership, coming off a 5-11 season, with a new coaching staff, new offensive and defensive schemes, etc. But we're not getting much from our so called leaders.

And in my mind, it doesn't bode well for the season.

[ICE74129]

I agree, ICE. This would be a great time for some veteran leadership, coming off a 5-11 season, with a new coaching staff, new offensive and defensive schemes, etc. But we're not getting much from our so called leaders.

And in my mind, it doesn't bode well for the season.

And I agree. We still have a team full of 'me' morons and this offseason is proving it.

I see Vincent, Fletcher, Posey and Mcgahee minimum gone this next season. Too bad marv wont do it now.

[Captain gameboy]

There is sn increasing probability that this little exercise might cost Willis a good deal of money.
Fans, front offices and staffs watch this stuff.

If there was one theme at this year´s draft other than basic talent, it was that maintenance free players get picked earlier.

He and his agent might come to that conclusion quite soon.

[ICE74129]

There is sn increasing probability that this little exercise might cost Willis a good deal of money.
Fans, front offices and staffs watch this stuff.

If there was one theme at this year´s draft other than basic talent, it was that maintenance free players get picked earlier.

He and his agent might come to that conclusion quite soon.

I doubt it. He is a dumb punk and his agent is the biggest jackass out there.

[Mr. Pink]

Well considering you all take Thurmans' word as gospel according to this thread....how about this tidbit from the Buffalo News......

<!--StartFragment -->
Offering no explanation other than saying it is "my gut feeling," Thomas predicted the Bills' days in Buffalo are numbered.
"I think in the next couple of years you're going to see the moment that the Bills have an opportunity to leave, or if things are not going well here I think they will pick up and leave," he said. "With Ralph [Wilson, the Bills' owner] talking about the small market and not being able to compete with the other [big-market] teams, it's pretty safe to say [they're leaving]. I would give it three or four years, maybe."
Somehow Thomas pointed to the Bills' draft as a signal to him that they are leaving. He didn't agree with the decision to draft Donte Whitner with the eighth overall pick even though strong safety was a need.
"I'm not saying that he's not a quality player," Thomas said. "I know you lost Lawyer [Milloy], but I just thought that maybe they could have gone for a nose tackle or maybe an offensive tackle."

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060606/1008081.asp

He openly criticizes the draft, the direction of the franchise and a move of the franchise he views as inevitable. Or do we pick and choose what Thurman quotes we choose to believe?

[ICE74129]

Well considering you all take Thurmans' word as gospel according to this thread....how about this tidbit from the Buffalo News......

<!--StartFragment -->
Offering no explanation other than saying it is "my gut feeling," Thomas predicted the Bills' days in Buffalo are numbered.
"I think in the next couple of years you're going to see the moment that the Bills have an opportunity to leave, or if things are not going well here I think they will pick up and leave," he said. "With Ralph [Wilson, the Bills' owner] talking about the small market and not being able to compete with the other [big-market] teams, it's pretty safe to say [they're leaving]. I would give it three or four years, maybe."
Somehow Thomas pointed to the Bills' draft as a signal to him that they are leaving. He didn't agree with the decision to draft Donte Whitner with the eighth overall pick even though strong safety was a need.
"I'm not saying that he's not a quality player," Thomas said. "I know you lost Lawyer [Milloy], but I just thought that maybe they could have gone for a nose tackle or maybe an offensive tackle."

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060606/1008081.asp

He openly criticizes the draft, the direction of the franchise and a move of the franchise he views as inevitable. Or do we pick and choose what Thurman quotes we choose to believe?

What did he say that was incorrect. I feel he is dead on.

[ICE74129]

"I knew when we had to come and we had to show up, whether it was mandatory or voluntary or whatever, we showed up," Thomas said. "We didn't do a lot, but we showed up. It's just a different breed [of player] coming through.
"But I wish [McGahee] was here because he is the focal point and the main guy for this offense. If you want to be a true leader and call yourself the best running back in the National Football League, well, you should act like it and show your true colors and come here and be a team leader."

It can't be put much better than that.

[DynaPaul]

Like everyone else, I'm not exactly thrilled with his lack of committment to the team. But, I'm reserving judgment until the season gets into motion. If he comes in this year and blows out of the gate I'll be happy and this will seem like a big stink over nothing. On the other hand if he sucks and keeps up with his sub par yards per carry we're going to have to take a look at him further and his lack of committment will have shown to be detrimental to his performance.

[justasportsfan]

Well considering you all take Thurmans' word as gospel according to this thread....how about this tidbit from the Buffalo News......

<!--StartFragment -->
Offering no explanation other than saying it is "my gut feeling," Thomas predicted the Bills' days in Buffalo are numbered.
"I think in the next couple of years you're going to see the moment that the Bills have an opportunity to leave, or if things are not going well here I think they will pick up and leave," he said. "With Ralph [Wilson, the Bills' owner] talking about the small market and not being able to compete with the other [big-market] teams, it's pretty safe to say [they're leaving]. I would give it three or four years, maybe."
Somehow Thomas pointed to the Bills' draft as a signal to him that they are leaving. He didn't agree with the decision to draft Donte Whitner with the eighth overall pick even though strong safety was a need.
"I'm not saying that he's not a quality player," Thomas said. "I know you lost Lawyer [Milloy], but I just thought that maybe they could have gone for a nose tackle or maybe an offensive tackle."

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060606/1008081.asp

He openly criticizes the draft, the direction of the franchise and a move of the franchise he views as inevitable. Or do we pick and choose what Thurman quotes we choose to believe?
he was a great player. I'd rather listen to Kelly before I'd listen to Thurman. Thurman loved blowing smoke up media's arse.

[patmoran2006]

Some of you CLOWNS need to get off your high horse and learn some facts; especially you ole' Frosty one..

Every fan, player and coach would prefer Willis would be here for the "voluntary" workouts.. He's not.. Neither are about 30 other U of Miami players around the league.

And you know Willis HOW well personally to state as a "fact" that Willis doesnt care, that he isnt working out, he just wants to be on TV, blahblahblah..

Lastly, Willis not just an "average" back.. First off, he came back from a career-threatening knee injury..

Secondly, in his first two seasons he's ran for 2375 yards and 18 Touchdowns.. He's ran for 100 or more yards in 12 of 28 starts.. I've seen A LOT worse...... Did I mention those numbers come with what some of call an "offensive line".. He's only going into his third year playing behind a mediocre offensive line.. what do you expect him to be, jim Brown? get a clue. He's basically playing for a new contract, he'll be in PLENTY GOOD shape.

When it comes September/October and Willis looks like **** and his stats stuck then *****.. Until then, for the LOVE OF GOD, please STFU. It's F'n the first week of JUNE.

[eeyyeeddoogg]

Again your missing the real point PM.
It's not about him being in shape. {at least not with me}. He's 22 yrs old and I have no doubt he will be in top physical shape.
It's about showing a commitment to your teammates and new coaches, learning a new system, forming a bond with your teammates, and being a leader since he is the focal point of the offense.
Instead he's showing everyone he only gives a F about himself.

[patmoran2006]

I'm not missing the point.. You're missing the point.

I wish he was at camp too.. But some of the Bi-Polar people in here flip the switch on and off far too often.

[Mr. Pink]

Learning the system? What system does he need to learn?

I form toss-same play no matter what system....split back sweep-same play....etc.

We all know Willis is no pass catching threat really at the NFL level, considering he was never in on 3rd downs....so what does this leave for him?

Pass blocking? oh wait, he's not on the field for those either!

So tell me what in the bloody hell does he need to "learn?"

[patmoran2006]

I'm not going to sit here and complain that he isn't at a OTA..

You're talking to a guy (me) who took three study halls his senior year of HS.

[eeyyeeddoogg]

Whats he need to learn ????? Are you freaking serious ?
Do you think because the idiots from last years staff took him off the field on 3rd downs and didn't tthrow the ball to him that this staff is going to do the same? Also you have a new system, with new coaches and your not dealing with the brightest player in the league.

[Mr. Pink]

DJ to Willis..."now, if any of those guys gets through our offensive line your job is to block them so they don't kill JP HolcoNall!"

Willis...."What? I shoulda been here for OTAs!"

Come on....his only purpose is to carry the ball....and since when is a toss different in any offensive scheme or an offtackle or a lead dive?

You're making a big deal out of a guy who if he shows up or not is no big deal, Edge is more of an all around back, he didn't go to Cardinals minicamp and barring injury, he'll still run for 1400 yards.

What's the big deal exactly?

[The_Philster]

Let's see...there's timing to be worked on, new terminology to learn. Not all systems call plays the same, you know

[eeyyeeddoogg]

Again your missing the real point PM.
It's not about him being in shape. {at least not with me}. He's 22 yrs old and I have no doubt he will be in top physical shape.
It's about showing a commitment to your teammates and new coaches, learning a new system, forming a bond with your teammates, and being a leader since he is the focal point of the offense.
Instead he's showing everyone he only gives a F about himself.

Thats the big deal.
And if he shows up maybe they can work him into the passing game on 3rd downs. It sure as hell isn't helping anyone with the team by him missing. Also don't compare him to Edge. At this point there is no comparison. Edge already can catch the ball out of the backfield, pick up a blitzing linebacker, and has proven himself over a longer period of time.

You suprise FTY you are usually sharper than that.

[Mr. Pink]

Thats the big deal.
And if he shows up maybe they can work him into the passing game on 3rd downs. It sure as hell isn't helping anyone with the team by him missing. Also don't compare him to Edge. At this point there is no comparison. Edge already can catch the ball out of the backfield, pick up a blitzing linebacker, and has proven himself over a longer period of time.

You suprise FTY you are usually sharper than that.


Call it a combination of this topic being beaten like a dead horse and the fact that RB isn't one of the key guys that needs to learn what his "role" is in a new system. His role will remain virtually unchanged from last year, other than maybe he'll be told just to hit the hole and not dance around. Like I said a dive is a dive, an off tackle is an off tackle no matter what offensive scheme you wanna devise it out of, sure formations will be different but I'd hope he knows the difference between singleback and I form by now.

It's the fact that everyone is jumping all over Willis but doesn't care when London Fletcher isn't attending these OTAs. When his role is significantly more important and more intensive than Willis. London is supposed to know the line calls, audibles, reads, etc. New system for him means different responsibilities than last year.

It's just that this whole topic is been so overly exhausted for no real reason, these are "voluntary" activities, if july comes and Willis isn't around, then there is cause for alarm. Would it be better if everyone showed up? Probably. But the reality is that doesn't happen for any team. If coaches want everyone to show up, maybe they should make these "mandatory."

All in all though, it's still June...they have mandatory camps and preseason to fully learn the system anyways.

[ddaryl]

He openly criticizes the draft, the direction of the franchise and a move of the franchise he views as inevitable. Or do we pick and choose what Thurman quotes we choose to believe?


The draft is a crap shoot. Either marv is a genius or he's an old baffon. Nobody knows, but I personally think Donte will prove to be a good pick

I do agree that the Bills days are numbered although 3-4 years sounds a bit soon.

but in regards to Thurmans quotes about Willis McGahee, please explain to me what he said that was wrong. Leaders show up, those who have the drive to win a championship do the extra things, and Willis isn't that player.

Heck at this point WM could rush for 2500 yds, and all be happy for that, but it won't change the fact that he is acting like Punk who doesn't care much for the Bills. If Willis did rush for 2000+ yds in 2006 he would be, IMO, unmanageable as a player via his contract demands, lack of showing up, and media attention.

[Jan Reimers]

I think Willis and the other veterans not showing up is mostly about attitude, commitment and chemistry. I'm sure they will all learn the new systems and terminology in camp.

But they should be here to hang out, talk smack, get together and build the kind of chemistry that winning teams need. Look what it did for the Sabres.

I just don't see that same attitude with the Bills' leaders, and I don't really understand it.