This sums it up...

[HHURRICANE]

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060611/1026255.asp


Holcomb is going to be the same quarterback he's been for his 11 seasons in the NFL with four different teams except that he'll be a year older, turning 33 next month. He is what he is. Losman has the strong arm, mobility and foot speed Holcomb lacks. His greatest asset is youth. Young quarterbacks have a chance to get better, in J.P.'s case the possibility of learning to make better decisions in critical situations.

[TacklingDummy]

"Losman won only three games as a starter, Holcomb four."

What 3 games did Losman win as starter? I know he started and the Bills won the Houston game.

This guy is probably giving JP credit for the KC win, but he didn't start, so he can't really say that Losman won the game as a starter.



So in fact, Losman is 1-7 as starter, 1-0 as a backup. Where's the 3rd win?

And the guy had it right, when Holcomb started the Bills won 4 games. Im just wondering where these 2 extra wins came from?

[RockStar36]

He wasn't the technical starter of the KC game, but he was the winning QB. Holcomb provided ZERO points in that game. Losman won 2 games, Holcomb 3.

[Jan Reimers]

For once, I agree 100% with Felser, except that his math is off on the wins - but when you win only 5 games, who really cares?

[TacklingDummy]

He wasn't the technical starter of the KC game, but he was the winning QB. Holcomb provided ZERO points in that game. Losman won 2 games, Holcomb 3.

Yes, I agree.

But that's not what this guy said. He's got the Bills winning 4 games when Holcomb STARTED and 3 when JP STARTED. Now, im not that great with math but 4+3= 7, weren't the Bills 5-11 last year?

And its a FACT that the Bills won 4 games when KH started and 1 when JP did. That could be why the Bills were acutally 5-11 and not 7-9 like this guy makes it look.

[gggbills]

Yes, I agree.

But that's not what this guy said. He's got the Bills winning 4 games when Holcomb STARTED and 3 when JP STARTED. Now, im not that great with math but 4+3= 7, weren't the Bills 5-11 last year?

And its a FACT that the Bills won 4 games when KH started and 1 when JP did. That could be why the Bills were acutally 5-11 and not 7-9 like this guy makes it look.

You are correct, the guys math is off, but other than that, the rest of the story makes sense. I like how he points out what happen with Aikman...and no, I am not comparing JP to Troy A. However, NFL history is full of examples of good to great QBs that sucked in thier first year or two. Difference being, those teams actually gave those QBs more than 8 games to prove whether they could make it ini the NFL.

If J.P. is even close to Kelly H. at the the end of this training camp and preseason, then I think the Bills MUST start J.P.

[Drive 4 Five]

Makes perfect sense to me. It really is not that dificult.

[ICE74129]

Attack the post, not the poster. Thanks.


Yes, I agree.

But that's not what this guy said. He's got the Bills winning 4 games when Holcomb STARTED and 3 when JP STARTED. Now, im not that great with math but 4+3= 7, weren't the Bills 5-11 last year?

And its a FACT that the Bills won 4 games when KH started and 1 when JP did. That could be why the Bills were acutally 5-11 and not 7-9 like this guy makes it look.

Facts are you have the most stupid posts EVER in Bills message board history. Facts are you and skoob post nothing but stupid spam.

Facts are, Everyone but the NFL official stat dept and a handfull of morons gives the win for KC to losman, because FACTS are he was the winning QB.

[ICE74129]

Makes perfect sense to me. It really is not that dificult.

It seems to be really difficult for Marv and DJ though. Holcomb is getting almost all the snaps with the first string. You can't WIN a 'Competition' by letting one guy get all the first string snaps.

[Drive 4 Five]

It seems to be really difficult for Marv and DJ though. Holcomb is getting almost all the snaps with the first string. You can't WIN a 'Competition' by letting one guy get all the first string snaps.

Then J.P. is just going to have to work harder I guess. He has to make the most of every opportunity and maybe that is what they are calculating. God I hope so. Regardless of whether he wons early or later, I feel it is only a matter of time before Losman is starting. He does not strike me as someone that is going to give up without one hell of a fight. Then when he does win it is going to mean a hell of alot more because it wasn't just handed to him, he had to take it, despite the odds being against him. If he can do that, he will be able to carry this team back to respectability and maybe beyond. We will have one hell of a QB when all is said and done.

[YardRat]

It seems to be really difficult for Marv and DJ though. Holcomb is getting almost all the snaps with the first string. You can't WIN a 'Competition' by letting one guy get all the first string snaps.

It's early...have a little patience.

[ParanoidAndroid]

This team is going to be shaky early on with all the new guys learning eachother and fine tuning the system. If Holcomb starts, he's probably going to lose a lot. Week 6, JP enters to give the team a spark and we beat an emerging Lions team. JP remains the starter as we make a nice push for .500 in the second half of the season.

[patmoran2006]

What makes "sense' to the public and what the Bills do don't necessarily agree with each other.

If we've LEARNED ONE thing about this front office to this point, is they will do whatever THEY think is best for the team. Every fan and mock "expert" in American expected us to go heavy on both sides of the line in the draft. It seemed "logical" it was the smart thing to do . Levy/Jauron etc decided to revamp the secondary.

This isn't about the draft.. What I'm saying is they will do whatever they think will give them the best chance to win a football game each week.. So if you're naive enough to think that just because JP is younger and a high draft pick , that he will beat out Holcomb because Holcomb is a 10-year career backup, you're very sadly mistaken.. I along with most hope Losman wins the job but after watching our FA moves and the draft, I REFUSE to put any stock into what the media thinks and says...

And though I'm no fan of Holcombs, in fairness to him he's never been given the opportunity to have an entire season to show his worth as a starter either.

I'm not bashing JP, I like him and hope he's the man.. But don't use "sense' and "logic" as two words for the Bills right now.. They already showed on draft weekend those words mean nothing; its about what they think is best for us on Sundays.

[Drive 4 Five]

All I am going to say is...

JP!!! JP!!! JP!!! JP!!! JP!!! JP!!! JP!!!

Holcomb sucks and I think it is you Pat who are sadly mistaken. You want to bet ZB's Losman wins this job?

[jamze132]

who really cares who had more wins last year? Does it really matter? It's a new year. Everyone knows what Holcomb will provide. No one knows what JP can provide. We have absolutely nothing to lose by JP being the starter for the season. If he can't handle it than we will finaly know what we have in JP. It makes absolutely no sense to start Holcomb.

[patmoran2006]

All I am going to say is...

JP!!! JP!!! JP!!! JP!!! JP!!! JP!!! JP!!!

Holcomb sucks and I think it is you Pat who are sadly mistaken. You want to bet ZB's Losman wins this job?

Why would I want to put ZB's on Holcomb starting when I want Losman to be the starter?

As for me being sadly mistaken, I think you are dead wrong. I am keeping an OPEN mind to the QB competition, unlike 95% of you who already have your mind made up in June..

Once again, 98% of us were also "sadly mistaken" on draft day. We all expected linemen and more linemen on draft day. We ended up taking a safety, DT, Cornerback and Safety with our first four picks... Name me ONE person who anticipated that.

My only point to begin with is to not think that something that makes "sense" to us right now makes the same sense to the Bills staff and F.O.

Whether its a good or bad move, many FA and Draft moves have left us puzzled. My feeling is the QB situation is going to be the same. If Losman doesnt out-perform Holcomb he aint winning the job, it's a very simple concept. In Jauron's eyes, it's not a former First Rounder vs Decade-long journeyman. It's two guys fighting for the right to start, and you can even throw in that 3rd string bum Craig Nall as well.

[Philagape]

I like to know what Holcomb's and JP's records were in correlation to how many times they took a pee before each game. That's about as relevant as who started, considering what actually happened.

[patmoran2006]

I could care less about last season right now. I'd care a lot more if we still had Mularkey and Clements on our staff, as well as Moulds.

I cant remember the last time I seen a young QB get thrown under the bus like the team did to Losman last year.

But what DOES concern me is how horrible at times Losman seemed to be with the accuracy on his short and medium passes.. It was HORRIBLE.. HIs long ball is a thing of beauty.. I'm just really hoping he's developing a lot more accuracy than he showed last year.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

It seems to be really difficult for Marv and DJ though. Holcomb is getting almost all the snaps with the first string. You can't WIN a 'Competition' by letting one guy get all the first string snaps.

I don't know if you caught this, ICE, but during the red zone and two minute drill work this past week, each day the Bills used only two of the three QBs, so that Holcomb sat out all of the work on one of the days (as did JP and Nall, each on a different day). Each QB got to lead the first team one day and the second team on another day. That's about as even a split between first and second team reps as you can get. It also allows each QB more time to establish some rhythm and continuity with the rest of the offense on the days that he works with them.

This may (and I repeat, may) be a sign that they want to get away from giving Holcomb more reps with the first team than the others get.

Like most people who have posted on this thread, I want to see JP win the starting job and start the season. But, I agree with Pat that this regime is going to do what it thinks is right regardless of what anyone else thinks or says about what they do.

That is why I think andyxc71 is right about them going with Holcomb as the starting QB at the beginning of the season, although I don't think they will stick with him as long as Game Six. Unless Losman blows Holcomb away with a terrific TC and preseason, IMHO, they will probably decide that naming Losman the starting QB at the beginning of the season will put a lot of pressure on JP from the fans and the team, etc. that they don't want him to be under, so, if all things are even or close, they will start the season with Holcomb, knowing that he will be mediocre at best. As soon as Holcomb starts to struggle, which he will, they can bring in JP to "give the team a spark": that way, the fans will be happy and supportive and none of the players on the team will be able to object or cause problems in the lockerroom. At that point it will be up to Losman to play the rest of the season as well as they figure Holcomb would play if he were still the starter. If JP is going to be the Bills' QB of the future, he should be able to do that, especially in the latter half of the season. If he can't, they may or may not give Nall a chance, but it would probably spell the end for Losman as a Bill after the season.

Now, again, I'm not saying that this is what I want to happen--it isn't. But, this is what I think is most likely to happen unless Losman clearly out-plays Holcomb in TC and the preseason (which I sincerely hope that he does!).

[ICE74129]

I don't know if you caught this, ICE, but during the red zone and two minute drill work this past week, each day the Bills used only two of the three QBs, so that Holcomb sat out all of the work on one of the days (as did JP and Nall, each on a different day). Each QB got to lead the first team one day and the second team on another day. That's about as even a split between first and second team reps as you can get. It also allows each QB more time to establish some rhythm and continuity with the rest of the offense on the days that he works with them.

This may (and I repeat, may) be a sign that they want to get away from giving Holcomb more reps with the first team than the others get.

Like most people who have posted on this thread, I want to see JP win the starting job and start the season. But, I agree with Pat that this regime is going to do what it thinks is right regardless of what anyone else thinks or says about what they do.

That is why I think andyxc71 is right about them going with Holcomb as the starting QB at the beginning of the season, although I don't think they will stick with him as long as Game Six. Unless Losman blows Holcomb away with a terrific TC and preseason, IMHO, they will probably decide that naming Losman the starting QB at the beginning of the season will put a lot of pressure on JP from the fans and the team, etc. that they don't want him to be under, so, if all things are even or close, they will start the season with Holcomb, knowing that he will be mediocre at best. As soon as Holcomb starts to struggle, which he will, they can bring in JP to "give the team a spark": that way, the fans will be happy and supportive and none of the players on the team will be able to object or cause problems in the lockerroom. At that point it will be up to Losman to play the rest of the season as well as they figure Holcomb would play if he were still the starter. If JP is going to be the Bills' QB of the future, he should be able to do that, especially in the latter half of the season. If he can't, they may or may not give Nall a chance, but it would probably spell the end for Losman as a Bill after the season.

Now, again, I'm not saying that this is what I want to happen--it isn't. But, this is what I think is most likely to happen unless Losman clearly out-plays Holcomb in TC and the preseason (which I sincerely hope that he does!).

Sorry that is all crap. It may put too much pressure on him? Its the friggin NFL!!! Either he is the QB or he isn't. Cut the BS and play the kid.

The right thing to do is start losman, he plays all 16. Either he starts getting it or we get a high draft pick. Either one helps the team

[TacklingDummy]

Attack the post, not the poster. Thanks.



Facts are you have the most stupid posts EVER in Bills message board history. Facts are you and skoob post nothing but stupid spam.

Facts are, Everyone but the NFL official stat dept and a handfull of morons gives the win for KC to losman, because FACTS are he was the winning QB.

Another perfect example that you can't debate the facts so you attack the poster.

[acehole]

Makes perfect sense to me. It really is not that dificult.

Yes let me join all of you in the beating of this dead hourse....