You guys ever watch baseball or hockey?

[Patrick76777]

You guys ever watch baseball or hockey? Sometimes a pitcher or a goalie gets shelled in a game. When that happens, the manager/coach will pull the plug on the guy so that he’s not ruined mentally. Leaving the guy out there to get bombarded is can really damage the player for a long time.

Believe it or not, I was 100% behind JP last year. Then when he got benched I was 100% behind the decision. I know that someone here decided that the only way to develop a QB is to play him constantly. Thru good times and bad times and worse times. Sorry, but I just can’t buy into this theory. In my personal opinion, JP was lost out there last year. Leaving him out there to get shelled week in and week out could have done serious damage. I know that I’ll hear that yanking him could cause just as much damage, but I don’t buy that. Maybe if he was 7, that would be a good argument. But not with professional athletes. Leaving them out there to get killed, can however have a disastrous effect on their career.

That Holcomb talk on Friday was a result of me being bored and wanting to fire all of you JP fans up. Truth be told, I’m only about 80% sure that he’ll be a bust. My supremely optimistic side (Call it homerism if you want BF, nothing wrong with being Optimistic) still holds out hope that if he wins the job, he can turn it around. I’m just not ready to bet the farm on it.

I also feel that the argument that KH is an average career back up and that he will never amount to anything is grossly unfair to him. And I’m not a crazy KH fan. I don’t think he’s the long term answer. But be fair to the guy. He’s just a squirrel trying to get a nut. Looking for a chance to show he can do the job. Can’t blame a guy for that.

Honestly, I don’t care who they give the job to. And whoever gets the job will have my support. Especially if it’s JP.

[Mitchy moo]

JP is the best chance we have for a future QB right now and that scares me. I really hope that he can come through and use his noodle.

[Patrick76777]

JP is the best chance we have for a future QB right now and that scares me. I really hope that he can come through and use his noodle.


Well I said at the start of last year that out offense should consist of 30-35 Carries by Willis and 7 or 8 passes by JP. that plan worked out well for Pittsburgh and Chicago.

No diff. this year. Esp. if JP wins the job. Willis 30-35 carries, A-Train 5-10 carries. JP about 10-15 passes a game. Never any more.

Mularkey came out of the gates last year having JP throw all of the time. And he would panic everytime Willis got only 2 yards making it 2nd and 8.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Well I said at the start of last year that out offense should consist of 30-35 Carries by Willis and 7 or 8 passes by JP. that plan worked out well for Pittsburgh and Chicago.

No diff. this year. Esp. if JP wins the job. Willis 30-35 carries, A-Train 5-10 carries. JP about 10-15 passes a game. Never any more.

Mularkey came out of the gates last year having JP throw all of the time. And he would panic everytime Willis got only 2 yards making it 2nd and 8.
I agree.

However, something tells me (no I don't have a reason or a source) that Marv & Co. just don't like Holcombe. Why else would they run out and get Nall and Woodbury?

[Jan Reimers]

I agree.

However, something tells me (no I don't have a reason or a source) that Marv & Co. just don't like Holcombe. Why else would they run out and get Nall amd Woodbury?
It's hard to like a guy with no talent.

[PromoTheRobot]

You guys ever watch baseball or hockey? Sometimes a pitcher or a goalie gets shelled in a game. When that happens, the manager/coach will pull the plug on the guy so that he’s not ruined mentally. Leaving the guy out there to get bombarded is can really damage the player for a long time.

Believe it or not, I was 100% behind JP last year. Then when he got benched I was 100% behind the decision. I know that someone here decided that the only way to develop a QB is to play him constantly. Thru good times and bad times and worse times. Sorry, but I just can’t buy into this theory. In my personal opinion, JP was lost out there last year. Leaving him out there to get shelled week in and week out could have done serious damage. I know that I’ll hear that yanking him could cause just as much damage, but I don’t buy that. Maybe if he was 7, that would be a good argument. But not with professional athletes. Leaving them out there to get killed, can however have a disastrous effect on their career.

That Holcomb talk on Friday was a result of me being bored and wanting to fire all of you JP fans up. Truth be told, I’m only about 80% sure that he’ll be a bust. My supremely optimistic side (Call it homerism if you want BF, nothing wrong with being Optimistic) still holds out hope that if he wins the job, he can turn it around. I’m just not ready to bet the farm on it.

I also feel that the argument that KH is an average career back up and that he will never amount to anything is grossly unfair to him. And I’m not a crazy KH fan. I don’t think he’s the long term answer. But be fair to the guy. He’s just a squirrel trying to get a nut. Looking for a chance to show he can do the job. Can’t blame a guy for that.

Honestly, I don’t care who they give the job to. And whoever gets the job will have my support. Especially if it’s JP.

Baseball = 162 games, plus a developental minor league
Hockey = 82 games, plus a developmental minor league
Football = 16 games, no legitimate developmental league

To use hockey annd baseball as an analogy to pulling JP out of a football game is such a stretch, it's hilarious. Talk about apples and elephants! There is no league (not even NFLE) that can prepare a player, especially a QB, for the NFL. So they HAVE TO learn on the job! If you keep benching the guy, he will never be any good, guarenteed.

PTR

[Patrick76777]

Baseball = 162 games, plus a developental minor league
Hockey = 82 games, plus a developmental minor league
Football = 16 games, no legitimate developmental league

To use hockey annd baseball as an analogy to pulling JP out of a football game is such a stretch, it's hilarious. Talk about apples and elephants! There is no league (not even NFLE) that can prepare a player, especially a QB, for the NFL. So they HAVE TO learn on the job! If you keep benching the guy, he will never be any good, guarenteed.

PTR



It's not about how many games they play. It's about not stunting growth. You're out of your mind if you can't see the point I'm trying to make.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

I agree.

However, something tells me (no I don't have a reason or a source) that Marv & Co. just don't like Holcombe. Why else would they run out and get Nall and Woodbury?

I think that the reason that they went out and got Nall right away was that they were getting conflicting reports, likely more negative than positive, about JP Losman from the players that they talked with (Moulds was one of the first that Levy interviewed) and were concerned by what they saw of him on film. As a result, they didn't really know what they had in JP--especially because he was not in Buffalo, except for a couple of days--after Marv took over and must have had some serious doubts about whether he was a player that they could work with and develop into something. Nall was a guy that Jauron was familiar with that reportedly a lot of people around the league liked and think has some potential. I think that their reasoning was that, if JP turned out to be a jerk and a total loser who would take years to develop, with Nall they would have a young guy that they could potentially work with and develop, like Jim Miller and Bill Kenney the two young journeymen who blossomed under Jauron in Chicago and Levy in KC. They knew that in Holcomb they had a veteran back-up who could perform to a certain level (somewhere between Chris Chandler and Mike Livingston) and "hold the fort" until either one of the two young guys showed enough to beat him out or both showed that the team would need to bring in a new QB to be the starter.

Given the way that their comments about JP Losman have changed from when Marv and DJ first arrived in Buffalo (if you recall, some of Marv's comments bordered on almost being hostile), I think Losman has shown them a lot more potential than they were initially led to believe that he had. Now, he's still going to have to show that he can be better than Holcomb and Nall, but I don't hear the same kind of doubts or challenging comments when they talk about JP anymore--which leads me to believe that they have a higher opinion of him now than they did back when they acquired Nall.

And, because Nall has struggled to learn the new terminology of the Bills' passing game, I'm not ready to write him off just yet. If he's still struggling in training camp, that will be a different story. If he doesn't show enough to win the starting job, it is possible that he could still show enough to give the Bills a creditable young # 2 QB, kind of like Frank Reich was to Jim Kelly: he does have a stronger arm than Holcomb that would seem to be a better fit for an offense with the deep speed that the Bills have at WR. That's something that Holcomb will never really have. Besides which, Holcomb is much older and more expensive as a back-up.

I'm not sure that they really dislike Holcomb. I think they know that he is limited in what he can do, but, for now, provides a lower threshold of what they expect from their starting QB: which is to say that they expect the younger guys to out-perform him if they are going to play and are hoping that one or both of them will. They know that Holcomb isn't taking this team to a Super Bowl, if competing with him for a starting job at this stage of their careers propells on of the two younger guys to develop into a QB who can do that, he can help the team in that way at the very least, while giving them a QB who can at least be mediocre if neither of the young guys can beat him out.

As for Woodbury, I think they saw him as camp fodder at the very least and, at best, perhaps a guy, like Ochs, who might show enough to develop into a cheap # 3 QB with more upside than Holcomb.

I really think that they look at Holcomb as setting the floor of expectations at the QB position--a guy that they will turn to as the starter if they must, but who is setting the minimum standard of the level of play that they are looking for their other QBs to perform at.

[jamze132]

All this crap about JP this and JP that is getting old. JP has been screwed over by last years regime. No one in the world knows what he can or can't do yet. How many QBs have came right into the league and lit it up? 2 maybe 3? And how many needed a year or two to develop? I don't remember Peyton Manning tearing it up in his first season. But the coaches let him and play. It's the only way anyone will ever know if he can perform at this level. We drafted this kid in the first round with 3 other highly touted QBs. One has one a superbowl already. There were scouts and critics alike saying that the 4 QBs all had their strengths and weakneses and that they were all clsoe talent wise. And if I remember correctly, a lot of scouts thought that JP had the best workout at the combine.

The bottom line is that he hasn't been given a fair chance yet. All the homers who say that JP is garbage and he can't play proffesional football are off base. What do you gage your arguement on? In the end, you may be right but NO ONE KNOWS! Give the kid a chance.

[Jan Reimers]

All this crap about JP this and JP that is getting old. JP has been screwed over by last years regime. No one in the world knows what he can or can't do yet. How many QBs have came right into the league and lit it up? 2 maybe 3? And how many needed a year or two to develop? I don't remember Peyton Manning tearing it up in his first season. But the coaches let him and play. It's the only way anyone will ever know if he can perform at this level. We drafted this kid in the first round with 3 other highly touted QBs. One has one a superbowl already. There were scouts and critics alike saying that the 4 QBs all had their strengths and weakneses and that they were all clsoe talent wise. And if I remember correctly, a lot of scouts thought that JP had the best workout at the combine.

The bottom line is that he hasn't been given a fair chance yet. All the homers who say that JP is garbage and he can't play proffesional football are off base. What do you gage your arguement on? In the end, you may be right but NO ONE KNOWS! Give the kid a chance.
Great post. You are one of many posters here who get it. Some don't, however, and I guess they are a lot smarter than us. They know that JP will never make it, based on only a handful of starts. If I had their ability to predict the future, I'd be getting rich in the stock market.

[SABURZFAN]

i never liked the JP pick to begin with.i hope he does well but we have to get an OL in front of him.the lack of blocking made him look like a squirrel caught in traffic.can anybody name one time where JP had time in the pocket?or any of our QB's for the last 5-6 years?

[Historian]

I don't remember Peyton Manning tearing it up in his first season. But the coaches let him and play. It's the only way anyone will ever know if he can perform at this level.


Exactly.

I remember Paul Maguire on a Sunday Night telecast, while doing a Colts game in Mannings second season, specifically quote Peyton by saying:

The game has slowed down for me this year.

But in order for that to happen, he had to take his lumps with a 3-13 rookie season.

[Iehoshua]

You guys ever watch baseball or hockey? Sometimes a pitcher or a goalie gets shelled in a game. When that happens, the manager/coach will pull the plug on the guy so that he’s not ruined mentally. Leaving the guy out there to get bombarded is can really damage the player for a long time.

Agreed, and I have no problem yanking a guy if he is totally stinking in a game.

Taking someone out in a bad game is not the same thing as moving him down in the depth chart, however. In baseball, they don't send a starter into the bullpen after a bad outing or even skip his turn in the rotation. In 4 or 5 days, he's back on the mound. Nor do they demote a reliever to the minors if he goes out and gets shelled in an appearance.

Your analogy is good but you just made the point better for those of us who want JP to start, IMO.

Thanks, Patrick!
:up:

[Patrick76777]

Agreed, and I have no problem yanking a guy if he is totally stinking in a game.

Taking someone out in a bad game is not the same thing as moving him down in the depth chart, however. In baseball, they don't send a starter into the bullpen after a bad outing or even skip his turn in the rotation. In 4 or 5 days, he's back on the mound. Nor do they demote a reliever to the minors if he goes out and gets shelled in an appearance.

Your analogy is good but you just made the point better for those of us who want JP to start, IMO.

Thanks, Patrick!
:up:


I was ****** with you guys on Friday. I don't care who the QB is. Sure I don't understand the JP love fest and it blows my mind that he keeps getting a pass, but I have no problem with him winning the job.

[Jan Reimers]

I was ****** with you guys on Friday. I don't care who the QB is. Sure I don't understand the JP love fest and it blows my mind that he keeps getting a pass, but I have no problem with him winning the job.
There's not a JP lovefest, but rather a young, talented first round draft pick who just might develop into a very good QB, vs. a mediocre journeyman who is no guarantee to win anymore games than JP this season, and really has no upside or future.

If you're not willing to give JP a chance under these circumstances, then I simply do not understand.

[Patrick76777]

There's not a JP lovefest, but rather a young, talented first round draft pick who just might develop into a very good QB, vs. a mediocre journeyman who is no guarantee to win anymore games than JP this season, and really has no upside or future.

If you're not willing to give JP a chance under these circumstances, then I simply do not understand.


Dude, it's a total love fest. JP can do no wrong for you guys. People here usually want to cut players after one bad game. Hell a few people wanted to cut Fletcher yesterday! Turns out his mother died. But JP, he's got a free pass. I just don't get it.

[jamze132]

Dude, it's a total love fest. JP can do no wrong for you guys. People here usually want to cut players after one bad game. Hell a few people wanted to cut Fletcher yesterday! Turns out his mother died. But JP, he's got a free pass. I just don't get it.
What free pass are you referring to? We have given him no pass at all. We are trying to say lets reserve judgement until he actually plays the game of football on a profesional level more than 8 games.

I am all for an open QB competition, it's designed to bring out the best in each person competing. Some players simply light it up in camp though when they don't have 100% of the fear of being someones *****. Other players play better under those circumstances and not so when in camp. Holcombe always seems to have a good camp but it doesn't really translate into success during the regular season.

[Iehoshua]

Dude, it's a total love fest.
...more accurately, it's a hate-fest on your part. How many anti-JP threads have you started lately? Dozens?