JP/Holcomb debate

[X-Era]

1) Anyone see the point in having so many speedster WR's if Holcomb can only throw about 20 yards? What the hell is the point? If we cant throw long, we take away the "game" of players like Evans, Price, Parrish, and Davis. The defense plays short, we kill our running game, and we are in serious trouble. All because we have a QB who cant throw the long ball. JP doesnt have ANY problem with his long throws and has proved it with 3 TD's against Miami to Evans, 2 TD's to Evans against KC.

2) Sportswriters, commentators, and especially retired ex-players ALWAYS say to play the vet. The ex-players do it because of friendships most often and they have ZERO clue about when a player is on the decline. Often they try to play to long. I put NO confidence in their opinions. Writers and commentators are always about a year behindThere is NO tangible benefit to playing Holcomb.

3) The vocal players are now long gone. Adams and especially Moulds had alot to say about starting Holcomb. The slate is clean, those players are gone, Evans (Losmans favorite target) is now our #1 and our O Coordinator likes to spread the field out with lots of Wr's running mid to deep routes. The main reason for starting Holcomb (some players preferring him) is GONE.

Add it all up and a heated race for the starting job, the choice is clear. If this team was set to be in contention for the playoffs, I would take a more conservative approach. We arent, so what in the hell do we have to lose?

[TacklingDummy]

Re: JP/Holcomb debate

We arent, so what in the hell do we have to lose?

1) Who had the longest completed pass last year? Yep, thats right Holcomb.

2) The season hasn't even started. How many games are the Bills behind first place? Oh yeah, none.

3) The QB the coaches think that gives the Bills the best chance to win week 1 (holcomb or Losman or Whoever) starts. PERIOD.

4) I can't believe how easily some fans throw in the towel months before the season even starts.

[Nighthawk]

Re: JP/Holcomb debate

1) Who had the longest touchdown pass last year? Yep, thats right Holcomb.

2) The season hasn't even started. How many games are the Bills behind first place? Oh yeah, none.

3) The QB the coaches think that gives the Bills the best chance to win week 1 (holcomb or Losman or Whoever) starts. PERIOD.

4) I can't believe how easily some fans throw in the towel months before the season even starts.

Some good points. Especially about some fans already throwing in the towel. Come on, people...have some faith!

[X-Era]

Re: JP/Holcomb debate

1) Who had the longest touchdown pass last year? Yep, thats right Holcomb.

2) The season hasn't even started. How many games are the Bills behind first place? Oh yeah, none.

3) The QB the coaches think that gives the Bills the best chance to win week 1 (holcomb or Losman or Whoever) starts. PERIOD.

4) I can't believe how easily some fans throw in the towel months before the season even starts.

The only way Holcomb has the longest TD was if he threw it 10 yards and Evans ran the other 80.

There is NO debating that JP has the stronger arm. Not even close.

[ublinkwescore]

Re: JP/Holcomb debate

which TD pass was this that holcomb threw?

I sure as hell don't remember it - I remember a 60-something yarder by JP in the Fins game.

[TacklingDummy]

Re: JP/Holcomb debate

which TD pass was this that holcomb threw?

I sure as hell don't remember it - I remember a 60-something yarder by JP in the Fins game.

Check out the Holcomb stats and JPs stats.According to ESPN. JP longest pass completion last year was 58 yards, Holcombs was 65 yards. You must remeber in-correctly because JP didn't have a 60 yard completion.

JPs last TD pass of the year was a 51 yard catch and run by Josh Reed in garbage time of the New England game. What was the pass 10 yards? I guess you don;t need to throw the ball long to have WRs to make a play.

[ublinkwescore]

Re: JP/Holcomb debate

I could have sworn his 2nd TD pass at Miami was 67 yards - I swear I remember the announcers of the Miami game saying that too.

[ublinkwescore]

Re: JP/Holcomb debate

ESPN doesn't make mistakes.

Not that I'm saying I'm right, but ESPN isn't perfect.

[TacklingDummy]

Re: JP/Holcomb debate

Losman CMP ATT YDS CMP% YP LNG TD INT

Pass Thrown: Behind line 25 46 130 54.3 2.83 13 1 1
Pass Thrown: 1-10 yds. 66 112 623 58.9 5.56 51 3 2
Pass Thrown: 11-20 yds. 15 42 281 35.7 6.69 30 0 2
Pass Thrown: 21-30 yds. 3 10 117 30.0 11.70 46 2 1
Pass Thrown: 31-40 yds. 2 9 89 22.2 9.89 56 2 0
Pass Thrown: 41+ yds. 2 7 100 28.6 14.29 58 0 2


Holcomb

Pass Thrown: Behind line 34 50 215 68.0 4.30 23 0 0
Pass Thrown: 1-10 yds. 83 113 744 73.5 6.58 49 7 2
Pass Thrown: 11-20 yds. 11 21 197 52.4 9.38 27 0 1
Pass Thrown: 21-30 yds. 3 6 104 50.0 17.33 55 1 0
Pass Thrown: 31-40 yds. 1 2 65 50.0 32.50 65 0 1
Pass Thrown: 41+ yds. 0 1 0 0.0 0.00 0 0 0

For JP having such a strong arm his stats. are not that much better then Holcomb on balls thrown over 20 yards. Dare I say they may be even worse then Holcombs?

JP is 7 of 26, for 306 yards, 4 TDs 3 Ints, and a completion % near 25% for Balls thrown over 20 yards.

KH is 4 of 9, 169 yards, 1 TD 1 INT and Comp % near 50% with balls thrown over 20 yards.

If the Bills coaching staff would let KH throw the deep more often his numbers would outshine Losmans by alot.

[TacklingDummy]

Re: JP/Holcomb debate

I could have sworn his 2nd TD pass at Miami was 67 yards - I swear I remember the announcers of the Miami game saying that too.

This is what the Box score say....Lee Evans, 56 yd pass from J.P. Losman (Rian Lindell kick is good)
Drive info: 1 plays, 56 yds, 0:00

Isn't that where the pass was underthrown and the Miami defender fell down?

[jmb1099]

Re: JP/Holcomb debate

1) Who had the longest completed pass last year? Yep, thats right Holcomb.

2) The season hasn't even started. How many games are the Bills behind first place? Oh yeah, none.

3) The QB the coaches think that gives the Bills the best chance to win week 1 (holcomb or Losman or Whoever) starts. PERIOD.

4) I can't believe how easily some fans throw in the towel months before the season even starts.

For the record, I am far from throwing in the towel, but that's exactly why I hope Losman is the starter come game one. You can pull out all the stats you want, none of it matters unless you mention the fact that it was Losman's first year as a starter. You mention in another post that Holcomb would have better long ball stats if the coaches would let him throw more...what??? The reason Holcomb doesn't throw more is because he'd burn out his arm if he threw more than 1 20 yard pass every eight quarters, it would look like a noodle hanging on the side of his body.

[YardRat]

Re: JP/Holcomb debate

I don't care what the guy's name is, as long as the QB that gives the team the best chance to win on Sundays is the starter. Having said that...

If we cant throw long, we take away the "game" of players like Evans, Price, Parrish, and Davis. The defense plays short, we kill our running game, and we are in serious trouble. All because we have a QB who cant throw the long ball.

Not true...McGahee specifically and the offense in general was more productive last year with Holcomb at the helm rather than JP.

Sportswriters, commentators, and especially retired ex-players ALWAYS say to play the vet.

Also not true and a gross generalization. For every media pundit extolling the virtues of the vet, there's another pulling for the youngster...just like message boards.

The main reason for starting Holcomb (some players preferring him) is GONE.

That's crap...if JP had performed better over the first four games of last season, regardless of the team's record or the player's feelings, he'd of kept his job.

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

Re: JP/Holcomb debate

This debate is so dang boring now.

It's gonna be who its gonna be... that is who ever plays better in preseason. I dont care if Punky Brewster is the QB if we score some dang points for once. I crappy offense means VERY dull football!

[RockStar36]

Re: JP/Holcomb debate

This is what the Box score say....Lee Evans, 56 yd pass from J.P. Losman (Rian Lindell kick is good)
Drive info: 1 plays, 56 yds, 0:00

Isn't that where the pass was underthrown and the Miami defender fell down?

Wasn't the Moulds TD a semi-long pass with a longer run for the TD?

[RockStar36]

Re: JP/Holcomb debate

I can't believe so many people back Holcomb. He really hasn't proven anything in his career. Besides the fact that he can battle young JP Losman for his job and almost stole Tim Couch's job.