No Matter How Upset You Are With the Bills. . .

[Jan Reimers]

Many of us are critical of Ralph, Marv, Jauron, the draft, the QB situation, the general state of the team, and the constant disappointments of the last several years.

Some of you are upset enough to have stopped buying tickets and merchandise, which is really a shame. While I believe the Bills will remain in Buffalo, diminishing revenue will certainly make it easier to move the team. I've finally decided to renew my premium seats for another 5 years beyond this season, even though I'm not thrilled with everything at OBD.

So criticize all you want here and in other places, but please continue to support the Bills in real terms, by showing up at the Ralph and spending your hard earned money, even if you are temporarily unhappy with our situation.

Things on the field have a way of getting better, but it won't really matter if the Bills leave town for good.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Good job.

Boy are you going to get carpet bombed by the groaners.

[Dr. Lecter]

Nice post.

But you are gonna get creamed by the pisser and moaners.

[Night Train]

My first Bills game I remember on TV was 1965. In person, it was 1968.

A bunch of whiners aren't ever going to make a difference. I never take them seriously. :rolleyes:

I show up at OP for every home game with a fresh attitude and knowing I get to tailgate and talk with great people.

I can't control what the Bills do but I'm still a fan and always enjoy the day. Winning is just a bonus.

[jmb1099]

I couldn't agree more, good post Jan.

[ICE74129]

No jan isn't going to get creamed, just straightened out :bandwagon

If you continue to pay ralph, he changes nothing. Why would he? He is getting his money. 'But ICE...ralph cares about winning'. Really? PROVE IT! Pay for better GM's, Coaching and PLAYERS! Signing bonuses are the key and ralph either doesn't have it, or flat won't pay it.

Now for the part that will upset everyone. I don't care if they stay in Buffalo or not. That county, and City has proven to me they can't support an NFL Franchise. Most are screaming 'We have to keep the team in Buffalo' Ok then STFU and pay normal ticket prices. Companys start paying normal rates for Luxury boxes. Some one step up and pay a good rate for naming rights. 'But ICE you dont' get it...WNY Economy can't do that'. EXACTLY! Time to move.

Either you can support an NFL Team or you can't. Putting the onus on other cities and owners to support your team is crap. Everyone should get an even cut of the pie, no doubt, but beyond that you have a duty to be able to afford and keep your own team. Buffalo can't do that. I have heard this for the last 20 years out of that city. Now I say tough. Get an owner with the personal and business assets to be able to afford the team (IE signing bonuses etc) start charging normal ticket prices etc, or the team should move.

Either way, this team is going to continue on its downward spiral with Ralph Wilson owning it. And it will leave Buffalo unless the locals can start supporting it by paying more along the NFL Average on tickets, boxes etc.

[Earthquake Enyart]

My first Bills game I remember on TV was 1965. In person, it was 1968.

A bunch of whiners aren't ever going to make a difference. I never take them seriously. :rolleyes:

I show up at OP for every home game with a fresh attitude and knowing I get to tailgate and talk with great people.

I can't control what the Bills do but I'm still a fan and always enjoy the day. Winning is just a bonus.
When I read Pat's homer thread, I was trying to figure out how to put into words how I felt as a kid about that time. Realistically, you knew the Bills were a horrible team, but I was still pulling for Mini Max Anderson, Dan Darraugh, Ed Rutkowski and the boys to play hard and maybe pull off an upset.

[R. Rich]

Many of us are critical of Ralph, Marv, Jauron, the draft, the QB situation, the general state of the team, and the constant disappointments of the last several years.

Some of you are upset enough to have stopped buying tickets and merchandise, which is really a shame. While I believe the Bills will remain in Buffalo, diminishing revenue will certainly make it easier to move the team. I've finally decided to renew my premium seats for another 5 years beyond this season, even though I'm not thrilled with everything at OBD.

So criticize all you want here and in other places, but please continue to support the Bills in real terms, by showing up at the Ralph and spending your hard earned money, even if you are temporarily unhappy with our situation.

Things on the field have a way of getting better, but it won't really matter if the Bills leave town for good.


I think it's crazy for anyone who doesn't live anywhere near the Buffalo area to purchase season tickets. What's the point?

[R. Rich]

Good job.

Boy are you going to get carpet bombed by the groaners.


Nice post.

But you are gonna get creamed by the pisser and moaners.

Good post/Nice job.

But boy, are you going to get crushed by the savings and loaners.

[Captain gameboy]

When I read Pat's homer thread, I was trying to figure out how to put into words how I felt as a kid about that time. Realistically, you knew the Bills were a horrible team, but I was still pulling for Mini Max Anderson, Dan Darraugh, Ed Rutkowski and the boys to play hard and maybe pull off an upset.

You got that right.
I lived for three years off the afterglow of hearing Joe Namath say the 1968 1-12-1 Bills defense was better than Baltimore's after the SB3 win.

That quote was all we had.

[bigbub2352]

This is a good post, i dont know how many of u have gone to away games but i go to a different one every year and have for the last 11 years, i have been to Indy, Jacksonville x2, houston, baltimore, Cinn, Miamix2, Oakland, Tampa Bay, and this year going back to Indy, but i will tell u that one thing we have that most places dont is passion, during the NFL season there is not a bar in Buffalo that you could go to were the patrons wouldnt be talking about the prior game or the upcoming one, i have been to games were he had a touch down lead going into the third quarter and people will be going to the exits Jacksonville, and also Baltimore when we were winning 10-7 going into the 4th and half the stadium emptied, going around houston some people didnt even know they had a team not kidding, so we are lucky to have the Bills and have paid out numerous big contracts to keep players here or to bring players here so eveyone needs to realize what we have and shut up and watch football stay out of all the buracracy crap

[SquishDaFish]

Great posting. I try to go to a game or 2 a year usually and the away game in NE seeing im from Mass. I wish I could live up in the area and buy season tickets. I would buy them if I lived there thats for sure. And Ill continue to buy my merchandise. These negative Nancys need to go to another board or just shut up.

[Jan Reimers]

I think it's crazy for anyone who doesn't live anywhere near the Buffalo area to purchase season tickets. What's the point?
I guess I'm crazy, but I DO get to spend 12 hours each way of quality windshield time with my wife, hone my driving skills, and stay at strange hotels.

Seriously, though, I wasn't talking so much about out-of-towners having, or giving up, their tickets. But if you're a Buffalo area fan who has given up your season tix solely because of your unhappiness with the Bills - given the real possibility that the team could move - I just don't understand.

[R. Rich]

I guess I'm crazy, but I DO get to spend 12 hours each way of quality windshield time with my wife, hone my driving skills, and stay at strange hotels.

Seriously, though, I wasn't talking so much about out-of-towners having, or giving up, their tickets. But if you're a Buffalo area fan who has given up your season tix solely because of your unhappiness with the Bills - given the real possibility that the team could move - I just don't understand.

I only have to drive about half of that, JR. I don't mind it much, it just sucks for the trips I make up w/out my wife.

[HHURRICANE]

I think it's crazy for anyone who doesn't live anywhere near the Buffalo area to purchase season tickets. What's the point?

No it's not!!

[HHURRICANE]

I guess I'm crazy, but I DO get to spend 12 hours each way of quality windshield time with my wife, hone my driving skills, and stay at strange hotels.

Seriously, though, I wasn't talking so much about out-of-towners having, or giving up, their tickets. But if you're a Buffalo area fan who has given up your season tix solely because of your unhappiness with the Bills - given the real possibility that the team could move - I just don't understand.


Jan you are right on. SUPPORT YOUR HOMETOWN!! I fly in from Atlanta for at least 2 games a year. I will be in Buffalo in 2 weeks as well to keep exposing my kids to the area (work ethic, culture, family values, etc.) and what it mean to be a Buffalonian!!!

[Jan Reimers]

No jan isn't going to get creamed, just straightened out :bandwagon

If you continue to pay ralph, he changes nothing. Why would he? He is getting his money. 'But ICE...ralph cares about winning'. Really? PROVE IT! Pay for better GM's, Coaching and PLAYERS! Signing bonuses are the key and ralph either doesn't have it, or flat won't pay it.

Now for the part that will upset everyone. I don't care if they stay in Buffalo or not. That county, and City has proven to me they can't support an NFL Franchise. Most are screaming 'We have to keep the team in Buffalo' Ok then STFU and pay normal ticket prices. Companys start paying normal rates for Luxury boxes. Some one step up and pay a good rate for naming rights. 'But ICE you dont' get it...WNY Economy can't do that'. EXACTLY! Time to move.

Either you can support an NFL Team or you can't. Putting the onus on other cities and owners to support your team is crap. Everyone should get an even cut of the pie, no doubt, but beyond that you have a duty to be able to afford and keep your own team. Buffalo can't do that. I have heard this for the last 20 years out of that city. Now I say tough. Get an owner with the personal and business assets to be able to afford the team (IE signing bonuses etc) start charging normal ticket prices etc, or the team should move.

Either way, this team is going to continue on its downward spiral with Ralph Wilson owning it. And it will leave Buffalo unless the locals can start supporting it by paying more along the NFL Average on tickets, boxes etc.
I don't agree, ICE. I want every fan to fight and claw and scratch to keep this team in Buffalo. It's not inevitable that the team will leave, and a sold out stadium every Sunday, with big time concession and merchandise sales, will make it easier for new ownership to keep the team in Buffalo.

Withdrawing financial support does not punish Ralph Wilson, who is 87 and a millionaire. It punishes the tens of thousands of loyal fans who are trying their damndest to keep the Bills in Buffalo.

[finsrclowns]

I don't agree, ICE. I want every fan to fight and claw and scratch to keep this team in Buffalo. It's not inevitable that the team will leave, and a sold out stadium every Sunday, with big time concession and merchandise sales, will make it easier for new ownership to keep the team in Buffalo.

Withdrawing financial support does not punish Ralph Wilson, who is 87 and a millionaire. It punishes the tens of thousands of loyal fans who are trying their damndest to keep the Bills in Buffalo.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[ICE74129]

I don't agree, ICE. I want every fan to fight and claw and scratch to keep this team in Buffalo. It's not inevitable that the team will leave, and a sold out stadium every Sunday, with big time concession and merchandise sales, will make it easier for new ownership to keep the team in Buffalo.

Withdrawing financial support does not punish Ralph Wilson, who is 87 and a millionaire. It punishes the tens of thousands of loyal fans who are trying their damndest to keep the Bills in Buffalo.

LMAO Fantasy. The Buffalo area can't support the team. The best thing for the team is a new owner and possibly a new location.

The stadium is sold out, Ralph says we still can't make it without the other owners bailing him out. Why? BUFFALO CANT SUPPORT THEM. This day was coming for YEARS now...hell DECADES.

Its either time for fans to pay normal average ticket prices, companys to pay normal box fees and someone step up and pay for stadium naming rights, or they move. The NFL can talk about wanting to keep the old history blah blah blah, all they care about is MONEY.

If a one of you don't think the NFL is just waiting for ralph to kick off and get a new owner in here, you're kidding yourselfs. And that new ower will meet NO resistance if he wants to move to greener pastures.

Now, bottom line, Quit the *****ing about 'we can't/ The area cant afford it' and pay up. That or the team goes. honestly I don't care either way. I want the bills to finally be winners, in Buffalo or not.

[Michael82]

I already renewed my season tickets and am planning on getting another jersey to replace my Moulds one. :up:

[ICE74129]

Jan you are right on. SUPPORT YOUR HOMETOWN!! I fly in from Atlanta for at least 2 games a year. I will be in Buffalo in 2 weeks as well to keep exposing my kids to the area (work ethic, culture, family values, etc.) and what it mean to be a Buffalonian!!!

Well lets see, From the MANY and I mean MANY that have moved outta buffalo to Tulsa they seem to think its a dung heap that is on its way into bankruptcy. No jobs, no one will vote out the crooked politicians, Most taxed county in the US (at least a few years back they were) etc.

There is nothing there. Hey kids lets move to Buffalo! We can watch mommy and daddy sit at home and draw unemployment while shoveling snow! 'But dad...what is there to do?' 'Well...shovel snow'.

Please. Buffalo is a dying hole and anyone that isn't a die hard homer knows it.

Just in the last 15, 10 and even 5 years, how many have fled buffalo to go ANYWHERE ELSE? someone posted something about people 24-35 or something like that, fleeing like rats off a sinking ship! Hell man you gotta eat!

That city and region can't support the Bills. Ralph knows it and thats why he is whining so much with the CBA. But its not the other owners job to support the Bills. its BUFFALO's job to support them and they can't or wont.

[ICE74129]

Great posting. I try to go to a game or 2 a year usually and the away game in NE seeing im from Mass. I wish I could live up in the area and buy season tickets. I would buy them if I lived there thats for sure. And Ill continue to buy my merchandise. These negative Nancys need to go to another board or just shut up.

Realism sucks huh?

[Jan Reimers]

Realism sucks huh?
There are realists and there are quitters. Do you quit every time something really bad happens in your personal life, or do you come back and fight even harder?

The city of Buffalo and Erie County have been in decline for 50 years or so, and the Bills have struggled along with them. But there are some WNYers who haven't given up, and the region is showing many signs of rebirth.

I would like the Bills to be there as BuffaloNiagara recovers, and I'll do everything I can to help them stay.

If you want to give up on the region and the team, fine.

[R. Rich]

If you want to give up on the region and the team, fine.

Okay. Thanks.

[patmoran2006]

There are realists and there are quitters. Do you quit every time something really bad happens in your personal life, or do you come back and fight even harder?

The city of Buffalo and Erie County have been in decline for 50 years or so, and the Bills have struggled along with them. But there are some WNYers who haven't given up, and the region is showing many signs of rebirth.

I would like the Bills to be there as BuffaloNiagara recovers, and I'll do everything I can to help them stay.

If you want to give up on the region and the team, fine.
Way too many words to address a person who changes his mind every other day.

[patmoran2006]

Many of us are critical of Ralph, Marv, Jauron, the draft, the QB situation, the general state of the team, and the constant disappointments of the last several years.

Some of you are upset enough to have stopped buying tickets and merchandise, which is really a shame. While I believe the Bills will remain in Buffalo, diminishing revenue will certainly make it easier to move the team. I've finally decided to renew my premium seats for another 5 years beyond this season, even though I'm not thrilled with everything at OBD.

So criticize all you want here and in other places, but please continue to support the Bills in real terms, by showing up at the Ralph and spending your hard earned money, even if you are temporarily unhappy with our situation.

Things on the field have a way of getting better, but it won't really matter if the Bills leave town for good.
I do support the team. I invest my time and often, money into watching them play, buying hats, jerseys, etc..

However, it needs to be a two way street with the organization. After six years of mediocrity, the organization owes it to the fans to spend the money and give them the best chance of being contenders. I know of many people who cancelled their season tix following FA when the cap went up all that money and the Bills signed a crapload of second rate/no name free agents.

While I hope everyone continues to buy tickets and sell the stadium out, I cant say I blame fans if they choose not to due to the product right now, especially after all these years. While what we refer to as "homers" are going to defend the Bills no matter what, more than enough people are tired of this crap and when the average person looks at this team right now non-objectively, it's a complete and utter mess.

[Philagape]

Call me a loser lover, but I'd rather have a home team that loses than no team at all. Because at least then, there are few hours every week when I can be passionately rooting for something. If there's no team, then there's zero of that.
A loss makes me feel bad for a few hours or a few days. Losing the team would leave a hole in my life that couldn't be filled.
Sure I could root for another team, or even the Bills elsehwere, but it would be nowhere near the same. I couldn't go to their games as often as I'd like. I couldn't watch them on TV as often as I do (not in my current situation).
Because Buffalo is such a small city, having an NFL team to call our own is a blessing. I selfishly want it to stay, and I'll take the good and the bad.

[McGahee420]

I already renewed my season tickets and am planning on getting another jersey to replace my Moulds one. :up:

Same here bro, and I think I am going to get a McGee Jersey to replace my Moulds.

[BuffaloBillsStampede]

I live in Binghamton and it is about 4 hours each way to the games, but my buddy and I make the trip to every game, and everytime I see him during the off season all we talk about is Bills football and how much we can't wait to go back for more next season no matter how the team finishes. It is obvious that some "fans" here don;t share the same type of love for this team that most of us others do. I wouldn't trade my season tickets or my team for anything in the world. I am only 22 years old so I wasn't really old enough to appreciate the glory days with Jim Kelly and those guys, but I know sooner or later that this team will be a winner. All I have ever really known with this team is losing, but I will never forget the first game I went to and hearing the crowd yell Bruce as he sacked the quarterback, and watching Doug Flutie run his little ass all over the field as we beat the Dolphins. No matter if we win or lose I know that I will always make the trip to Buffalo to support my team as long as I am able. I always tell people that haven't been to a game before that it feels like you are hanging out with 70,000 of your best friends eventhough you don't even know them, but you all have one thing in common and that is the love of the Buffalo Bills.

[SquishDaFish]

Awesome posting BBS

[Michael82]

Same here bro, and I think I am going to get a McGee Jersey to replace my Moulds.
Good idea. I was thinking of either McGee or Evans.

[Michael82]

Call me a loser lover, but I'd rather have a home team that loses than no team at all. Because at least then, there are few hours every week when I can be passionately rooting for something. If there's no team, then there's zero of that.
A loss makes me feel bad for a few hours or a few days. Losing the team would leave a hole in my life that couldn't be filled.
Sure I could root for another team, or even the Bills elsehwere, but it would be nowhere near the same. I couldn't go to their games as often as I'd like. I couldn't watch them on TV as often as I do (not in my current situation).
Because Buffalo is such a small city, having an NFL team to call our own is a blessing. I selfishly want it to stay, and I'll take the good and the bad.
Excellent post!!! :bf1:

:10:

[Michael82]

I live in Binghamton and it is about 4 hours each way to the games, but my buddy and I make the trip to every game, and everytime I see him during the off season all we talk about is Bills football and how much we can't wait to go back for more next season no matter how the team finishes. It is obvious that some "fans" here don;t share the same type of love for this team that most of us others do. I wouldn't trade my season tickets or my team for anything in the world. I am only 22 years old so I wasn't really old enough to appreciate the glory days with Jim Kelly and those guys, but I know sooner or later that this team will be a winner. All I have ever really known with this team is losing, but I will never forget the first game I went to and hearing the crowd yell Bruce as he sacked the quarterback, and watching Doug Flutie run his little ass all over the field as we beat the Dolphins. No matter if we win or lose I know that I will always make the trip to Buffalo to support my team as long as I am able. I always tell people that haven't been to a game before that it feels like you are hanging out with 70,000 of your best friends eventhough you don't even know them, but you all have one thing in common and that is the love of the Buffalo Bills.
Great post, man! I totally agree about the 70,000 of your best friends. :bf1:

[bigbub2352]

U know what is funny is that tell me a place right now were jobs are booming and paying top dollar for motivated experienced and educated workers, give me a break, i agree buffalo is not the place to be, but where is i lived in sandeigo, u work for what they pay u if not they fire u and hire someone who will work for that money, plus 14.00 and hour there is like 8 here, plus nobody is from there very unfriendly people, and in many other parts of the country it is the same way, we act like the bills have always sucked come on at least we got a team, ask iowa, nebraska, place like that who;s biggest excitement is college football, not that i dont like it but really we have made trips to the superbowl won divisions, and been pretty consistent before the TD debacle, no give it a chance to right itself, i dont post as much because some of the things said are absolutley ridicoulus and i talk football not about people;s feelings, enjoy the game not the area, enjoy the team and make sure we still got one in the future, trust me do some traveling alot of the cities that everyone think are so glamourous go walk around down there at night and see what happens, Atlanta, Vegas, Atlantic City, NYC, LA, Miami, leave there main strips and see what goes on u wanna see homeless and drug abuse, and crime, wake up

[ICE74129]

There are realists and there are quitters. Do you quit every time something really bad happens in your personal life, or do you come back and fight even harder?

The city of Buffalo and Erie County have been in decline for 50 years or so, and the Bills have struggled along with them. But there are some WNYers who haven't given up, and the region is showing many signs of rebirth.

I would like the Bills to be there as BuffaloNiagara recovers, and I'll do everything I can to help them stay.

If you want to give up on the region and the team, fine.

There is no giving up to it, Buffalo is what it is. Its all but dead and nothing is going to change it. Ralph will pass, new owner comes in and moces the Bills. Thats pretty much reality.

[ICE74129]

LMAO at the homerism. Man is reality going to hit you guys HARD. The team is moving at some point ( say 5-7 years tops). Buffalo can't support them. the NFL Owners are going to stop giving small market teams a ton of their money and have them move to someplace where the city/ county can actually support the team mostly.

Buffalo its self is dying off quicker and quicker each year. People living there all of their lives are running to get outta there, they know the truth.

So rah rah about having a crap team in a crap city all you want, it won't change the fact that this team is going to go at some point.

[northernbillfan]

If it's such a crap team in such a crap city then why do you continue to root for them? It sounds like you've given up on them already.

Do us a favour, pick another team and go annoy their fans on a another message board.

[northernbillfan]

I've been rooting for the Bills since I can remember. My first televised game was a playoff game against Pitt inthe '70s. My first live game was in 1987. I buy a jersey every couple of years to support the team since I am in northern Canada and can't get to as many games as I would like to. I would have seasons if I lived anywhere within 12 hour drive away.

There is enough money in and around Buffalo to support the team. if the realty of them leaving was coming to fruition, the city would rally big time to keep them there.

[Jan Reimers]

I disagree, ICE. I believe WNY can come back, and the Bills can stay in Buffalo for the long term.

But reasonable people can disagree, and I respect your opinion.

[patmoran2006]

I disagree, ICE. I believe WNY can come back, and the Bills can stay in Buffalo for the long term.

But reasonable people can disagree, and I respect your opinion.
one of the few..

the Bills are going nowhere. This city sells out the stadium when we're 10-6 or 5-11.

[HAMMER]

If it's such a crap team in such a crap city then why do you continue to root for them? It sounds like you've given up on them already.

Do us a favour, pick another team and go annoy their fans on a another message board.

Yes, please do. I have had more than my fill of Ice and Pat Moran's pompous attitudes. Stop acting like you know more than everyone, you don't (maybe more than some, but not many). You guys are truely ruining this board, at least for me. It isn't much fun to come in here every day and listen to you berate people because they don't agree with you. If I ran this board you guys would be long gone. I have withheld any more donations to BZ until you guys are 86'd, hopefully that will be soon. Go Bills and Go Buffalo, we will persevere.

[ICE74129]

If it's such a crap team in such a crap city then why do you continue to root for them? It sounds like you've given up on them already.

Do us a favour, pick another team and go annoy their fans on a another message board.

I'm not going anywhere so deal with it. That said, I am waiting for Ralph to sell or kick off, I am past giving a damn which one it is, so the BILLS can get a real owner and get this **** straightened out.

If buffalo the city and Erie Co dont' get their **** together, they are GONE. No new owner is going to undercut prices the way Ralph has. Time for WNY to start paying more the league norm or lose the team. Thats how it is

[ICE74129]

Yes, please do. I have had more than my fill of Ice and Pat Moran's pompous attitudes. Stop acting like you know more than everyone, you don't (maybe more than some, but not many). You guys are truely ruining this board, at least for me. It isn't much fun to come in here every day and listen to you berate people because they don't agree with you. If I ran this board you guys would be long gone. I have withheld any more donations to BZ until you guys are 86'd, hopefully that will be soon. Go Bills and Go Buffalo, we will persevere.

I'm not going anywhere. In fact I am going to go out of my way to not violate the TOS, but I will still be here bringing it as hard as always.

[ICE74129]

U know what is funny is that tell me a place right now were jobs are booming and paying top dollar for motivated experienced and educated workers, give me a break, i agree buffalo is not the place to be, but where is i lived in sandeigo, u work for what they pay u if not they fire u and hire someone who will work for that money, plus 14.00 and hour there is like 8 here, plus nobody is from there very unfriendly people, and in many other parts of the country it is the same way, we act like the bills have always sucked come on at least we got a team, ask iowa, nebraska, place like that who;s biggest excitement is college football, not that i dont like it but really we have made trips to the superbowl won divisions, and been pretty consistent before the TD debacle, no give it a chance to right itself, i dont post as much because some of the things said are absolutley ridicoulus and i talk football not about people;s feelings, enjoy the game not the area, enjoy the team and make sure we still got one in the future, trust me do some traveling alot of the cities that everyone think are so glamourous go walk around down there at night and see what happens, Atlanta, Vegas, Atlantic City, NYC, LA, Miami, leave there main strips and see what goes on u wanna see homeless and drug abuse, and crime, wake up

Wake up! Buffalo sucks. Almost no where in this nation are the % so high of people fleeing. You can talk it all you want, the FACTS are there. Until the people of erie Co quit TALKING a good fight and actually fight one, thats the way it will continue to be.

What cracks me up is they know the politicians are crooks but they keep electing/ re Electing them anyway.

[The_Philster]

I've had season tickets since 96...ain't no ****ing way I'm giving them up because some quitters who've all but abandoned my team think I should. It's always a great experience, win or lose. If people are gonna bail because of some hard years, :bigwave: good riddance to ya. It's times like these that separate the real fans from the pretenders. :2cents:

[ICE74129]

I've had season tickets since 96...ain't no ****ing way I'm giving them up because some quitters who've all but abandoned my team think I should. It's always a great experience, win or lose. If people are gonna bail because of some hard years, :bigwave: good riddance to ya. It's times like these that separate the real fans from the pretenders. :2cents:

LMAO. Keep waiving those pom poms...you will soon be waiving them at the moving vans carrying Bills equipment out of Buffalo

[The_Philster]

LMAO. Keep waiving those pom poms...you will soon be waiving them at the moving vans carrying Bills equipment out of Buffalo
at least I can live with myself knowing I did my part in trying to keep my team here instead of helping them load up to leave like the phony fans are trying to do :down:

[PUCKER]

Nice post Jan. :bf1: I am hoping to get a customized jersey before the Opener.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Superb post, Jan!

I became a Bills fan the day that I heard on the radio that Buffalo was going to have a professional football franchise again in the new American Football League that was being formed. I became a fan because I loved the game of football--I was already rooting for Frank Gifford and the NY Giants (whose games were televised in Buffalo at the time)--and I was proud of the fact that there was going finally going to be a pro football team representing the city that I was born and lived in, that I could watch and cheer for and that I could hope would win some games and some championships.

There wasn't much to cheer for or have hope in those first couple of seasons: the Bills stunk. But, I was a Bills fan ("fan" a term derived from the word "fanatic") and I didn't stop cheering or hoping. And, my faith in the team was rewarded by two AFL Championships before falling short of appearing in the first Super Bowl game ever. Since then the Bills have gone through cycles that have seen them be, for a time, one of the best teams in the NFL and, at other times, one of the worst teams in the NFL (how do you think the Bills wound up in a position to draft OJ Simpson, W.Patulski and Bruce Smith?). And, while I have now lived just about two thirds of my life outside of the Buffalo area, I have never stopped cheering for the Bills, supporting the team and hoping that they will win a championship. In the bad times I have taken a lot of grief from the fans of their AFC East rivals and other NFL teams, but I am secure enough in who I am and where I come from that that has not shaken my love for the place and people that I come from or my attachment to and support for the team that represents that place in the game that I still love. Even though my circumstances will not allow me to live in the Buffalo area again and the fact that I am disabled and have a limited income make it difficult for me to afford to spend the money to go to games and buy a lot of merchandise, I am still a fan of the Buffalo Bills and do and spend whatever I can to support the team--because, to me, that's what being a fan is all about.

While I like to think of the Bills as MY team, I am, however, very cognizant of the fact that they are NOT my team--I do not own the team, Ralph Wilson owns the team and, even though I am a fan and I support the team, they are, nevertheless, Ralph Wilson's team. In fact, the Buffalo Bills have always been Ralph Wilson's team, right from the very beginning. Now--this may come as a big surprise to some of you!--I'm not a particularly big fan of Ralph Wilson. As a Bills fan I can never forgive him for giving the future of those championship Bills teams to the Raiders and then having to listen to Howard Cosell ridicule Buffalo and the Bills on national TV as a result, even though, by doing so, Wilson saved the Raiders and, consequently, the AFL and, ultimately, the future of the Bills. Over the years, I have seen Wilson make dozens of decisions that I disagreed with and/or that were bad for the Bills. But, it is his team and he can do with it what he wants and every Bills fan has always known that--it's not a surprise to anyone. So, as I see it, if I want to be a Bills fan, I have to accept that as part of the package, whether I like Wilson or what he does with his team or not. And, I also have to acknowledge that, along the way, Wilson has also made some good decisions and some that I also thought would work out well even if they didn't. But, most of all, Wilson has kept the Bills in Buffalo when he very easily could have (and some financial analysts would undoubtedly say should have) moved them to another city in another part of the country. And, that matters a great deal to me: because if the Bills were in some other city, like the Braves when they became the Clippers, they would no longer matter to me because they would no longer represent the place that I came from and the part of me that will always be in that place.

Now, I have no right, whatsoever, to tell anyone how to spend their money or to tell Ralph Wilson how to spend his or how to run HIS football team. So, I'm not going to do that. What I will say is that if you don't like Ralph Wilson, the Bills, the Buffalo area, or the way that Ralph Wilson chooses to run his football team that much that you no longer wish to spend any of your money on the team or into Mr. Wilson's hands, fine, then, don't do it. But, if you don't, then don't bother following the team as long as Wilson is its owner and it is still based in Buffalo because the Bills are Ralph Wilson's team and, as long as he is still alive, owns the team and they are based in Buffalo, what you see is what you are going to get--it's what the Bills have been since Day One! If you can't accept that, if you can't support that, then don't say that you support the team or that you are a Bills fan. If you are going to be a Bills fan, you have to accept that Ralph Wilson is the owner of the team and that he is going to run it as he has since he founded the team, that it's roots are in the Buffalo area and that most Bills fans do not want the team to leave, and that, like most NFL franchises, the team's success runs in cycles: good and bad (the Steelers, the Pats, the Colts, the 49ers, the Seahawks, the Chargers, the Broncos, the Chiefs, the Giants, the Packers, etc. have all gone through periods when they have been lousy to the point of being laughingstocks, not just the Bills). You don't have to like it or not be frustrated or disappointed at times by it, but you do have to accept it.

If you don't want to spend your money on the Bills because you think that Wilson is a bum and you don't want to put any money into his pocket, either find a team that you think is run well enough that you can support that team. If you don't want to do that, but still want to follow professional football, follow the game for the love of it without being a fan of any team. Or, if you can't give up on the Bills but refuse to support the team, be honest and call yourself a "wanna-be Bills fan"--as is "I want to be a Bills fan, but not as long as Ralph Wilson owns them. If you don't want to do those things, then realistically you have two choices: 1.) put together a consortium of wealthy investors who will let you run the team and buy the Bills from Ralph Wilson (if he will sell the franchise to you); or 2.) find a way to convince Ralph Wilson that you can do a better job of running his team than the people that he hired to do the job for him at the present time. Of course, if you do either of these last two things, be prepared to have a certain percentage of people who call themselves "Bills fans" call you all sorts of names, criticize every move that you make with the team and urge those who support the team to withhold their financial support for the team the first time that they disagree with something that you do or you make a decision that does not result in immediate success on the field.

If you are not prepared to do any of those things, then you've got nothing to say to those of us Bills fans who are prepared to support the team through thick and thin, despite the agony of defeats and the frustrations of mis-management and bad decisions, because you are not willing to put your money where your mouth is and all that you are doing is whining. You can call me a "homer" if you want for being such a fan(atic) that I continue to support the team and hope it will succeed even when I disagree with the owner and recognize that the team isn't very good, but at least I have no illusions and I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is, which gives me the right to be a critic. I have no problems with Bills fans who are critics: there are and have been a lot of things about the team and the way that it has been run over the years that IMHO have been more than worthy of even the severest criticism and, while we may disagree over what some of those things have been or how much a particular thing deserves to be criticized, I think it is fair for Bills fans who support the team to air their criticisms, even if I don't agree with a particular one. But, if you're not willing to put your money where your mouth is and all you are going to do is complain because the owner and the people that he has hired are not doing what you would have them do, then I really don't want to hear it and, please, don't pretend that you are a Bills fan, no matter how much you may know about football or how passionate you are.

I salute all of you who are true Bills fans and have continued to support and go out of your way to support the team in good years and in bad, even when you have had doubts about the team, its owner and the decisions of its management. You are the ones who have kept the Bills in Buffalo and Buffalo on the national map in spite of the team's spotty record over the years and the mis-management of the region's economy (on this one point I do agree with ICE: WNY's political and business leaders should be put against a wall and shot for what they have done to the region's economy over the last 35 years!). I join you in looking forward to the day that the Bills finally bring the Lombardi Trophy back to Buffalo.

[Historian]

I nominate this thread for the Hall of Fame! Well done Jan!

My Grandpa took me to my first game in 1970. He died right before the first Super Bowl. In talking to Mr. Wilson one day, I told him that. I told him that my Grandpa would have given his right arm to see the Bills in the Super Bowl.

Ralph looked me straight in the eye, and announced to eveyone standing around him:

"That's what I'm trying to do here! I want the Bills to be a generational thing!"

All I can say is that it's been a big part of our family from day one.

When we buried my Father last July, I put a little Bills gumball helmet in the casket, because the team meant so much to him.

The Bills are more than just wins and losses.

It's the people I've met, and the friendships I've made over the years. People who I sit around in the stadium, park with, tailgate with, and now, chat online with. It transcends football. It's about relationships. Total strangers become lifelong friends...why?

Because of a common love for the Buffalo Bills.

Sorry ICE, I'll never stop supporting this team. It's given me too much over the years.

[The_Philster]

I second that nomination :up:

[Captain gameboy]

I won't ever stop either. I have a liitle Buffalo Bill logo in my DNA.

It isn't just the desire to win all the time, and throwing the baby out with the bathwater when they don't.

It is years and years of history and tradition.
My first game was the 1963 playoff against Boston, and I still remember the smell of the hot dogs being grilled on charcoal at War Memorial.

I was very young and it was the first time I felt electricity being generated from a big group of fans.

I remember being unable to sleep knowing I was going to get to watch them practice the next day and being very nervous during Sunday church knowing the game was only hours away.
Now, it is a thing my entire family shares, even though my kids were born in San Francisco during the 49er heyday.

It isn't just the roster or the standings.
It is wanting them to do well because you care about the people who care about them.
It is community, and if you don't feel it, you are missing the best part.

[ICE74129]

at least I can live with myself knowing I did my part in trying to keep my team here instead of helping them load up to leave like the phony fans are trying to do :down:

LMAO Phony fans? I don't see any phony fans at all. REALISTS maybe, phony fans not at all.

And if you were a true fan of the TEAM then you would want whats best for them right? Moving, unless Buffalo gets its **** together, would make them more competitive.

[ICE74129]

Superb post, Jan!

I became a Bills fan the day that I heard on the radio that Buffalo was going to have a professional football franchise again in the new American Football League that was being formed. I became a fan because I loved the game of football--I was already rooting for Frank Gifford and the NY Giants (whose games were televised in Buffalo at the time)--and I was proud of the fact that there was going finally going to be a pro football team representing the city that I was born and lived in, that I could watch and cheer for and that I could hope would win some games and some championships.

There wasn't much to cheer for or have hope in those first couple of seasons: the Bills stunk. But, I was a Bills fan ("fan" a term derived from the word "fanatic") and I didn't stop cheering or hoping. And, my faith in the team was rewarded by two AFL Championships before falling short of appearing in the first Super Bowl game ever. Since then the Bills have gone through cycles that have seen them be, for a time, one of the best teams in the NFL and, at other times, one of the worst teams in the NFL (how do you think the Bills wound up in a position to draft OJ Simpson, W.Patulski and Bruce Smith?). And, while I have now lived just about two thirds of my life outside of the Buffalo area, I have never stopped cheering for the Bills, supporting the team and hoping that they will win a championship. In the bad times I have taken a lot of grief from the fans of their AFC East rivals and other NFL teams, but I am secure enough in who I am and where I come from that that has not shaken my love for the place and people that I come from or my attachment to and support for the team that represents that place in the game that I still love. Even though my circumstances will not allow me to live in the Buffalo area again and the fact that I am disabled and have a limited income make it difficult for me to afford to spend the money to go to games and buy a lot of merchandise, I am still a fan of the Buffalo Bills and do and spend whatever I can to support the team--because, to me, that's what being a fan is all about.

While I like to think of the Bills as MY team, I am, however, very cognizant of the fact that they are NOT my team--I do not own the team, Ralph Wilson owns the team and, even though I am a fan and I support the team, they are, nevertheless, Ralph Wilson's team. In fact, the Buffalo Bills have always been Ralph Wilson's team, right from the very beginning. Now--this may come as a big surprise to some of you!--I'm not a particularly big fan of Ralph Wilson. As a Bills fan I can never forgive him for giving the future of those championship Bills teams to the Raiders and then having to listen to Howard Cosell ridicule Buffalo and the Bills on national TV as a result, even though, by doing so, Wilson saved the Raiders and, consequently, the AFL and, ultimately, the future of the Bills. Over the years, I have seen Wilson make dozens of decisions that I disagreed with and/or that were bad for the Bills. But, it is his team and he can do with it what he wants and every Bills fan has always known that--it's not a surprise to anyone. So, as I see it, if I want to be a Bills fan, I have to accept that as part of the package, whether I like Wilson or what he does with his team or not. And, I also have to acknowledge that, along the way, Wilson has also made some good decisions and some that I also thought would work out well even if they didn't. But, most of all, Wilson has kept the Bills in Buffalo when he very easily could have (and some financial analysts would undoubtedly say should have) moved them to another city in another part of the country. And, that matters a great deal to me: because if the Bills were in some other city, like the Braves when they became the Clippers, they would no longer matter to me because they would no longer represent the place that I came from and the part of me that will always be in that place.

Now, I have no right, whatsoever, to tell anyone how to spend their money or to tell Ralph Wilson how to spend his or how to run HIS football team. So, I'm not going to do that. What I will say is that if you don't like Ralph Wilson, the Bills, the Buffalo area, or the way that Ralph Wilson chooses to run his football team that much that you no longer wish to spend any of your money on the team or into Mr. Wilson's hands, fine, then, don't do it. But, if you don't, then don't bother following the team as long as Wilson is its owner and it is still based in Buffalo because the Bills are Ralph Wilson's team and, as long as he is still alive, owns the team and they are based in Buffalo, what you see is what you are going to get--it's what the Bills have been since Day One! If you can't accept that, if you can't support that, then don't say that you support the team or that you are a Bills fan. If you are going to be a Bills fan, you have to accept that Ralph Wilson is the owner of the team and that he is going to run it as he has since he founded the team, that it's roots are in the Buffalo area and that most Bills fans do not want the team to leave, and that, like most NFL franchises, the team's success runs in cycles: good and bad (the Steelers, the Pats, the Colts, the 49ers, the Seahawks, the Chargers, the Broncos, the Chiefs, the Giants, the Packers, etc. have all gone through periods when they have been lousy to the point of being laughingstocks, not just the Bills). You don't have to like it or not be frustrated or disappointed at times by it, but you do have to accept it.

If you don't want to spend your money on the Bills because you think that Wilson is a bum and you don't want to put any money into his pocket, either find a team that you think is run well enough that you can support that team. If you don't want to do that, but still want to follow professional football, follow the game for the love of it without being a fan of any team. Or, if you can't give up on the Bills but refuse to support the team, be honest and call yourself a "wanna-be Bills fan"--as is "I want to be a Bills fan, but not as long as Ralph Wilson owns them. If you don't want to do those things, then realistically you have two choices: 1.) put together a consortium of wealthy investors who will let you run the team and buy the Bills from Ralph Wilson (if he will sell the franchise to you); or 2.) find a way to convince Ralph Wilson that you can do a better job of running his team than the people that he hired to do the job for him at the present time. Of course, if you do either of these last two things, be prepared to have a certain percentage of people who call themselves "Bills fans" call you all sorts of names, criticize every move that you make with the team and urge those who support the team to withhold their financial support for the team the first time that they disagree with something that you do or you make a decision that does not result in immediate success on the field.

If you are not prepared to do any of those things, then you've got nothing to say to those of us Bills fans who are prepared to support the team through thick and thin, despite the agony of defeats and the frustrations of mis-management and bad decisions, because you are not willing to put your money where your mouth is and all that you are doing is whining. You can call me a "homer" if you want for being such a fan(atic) that I continue to support the team and hope it will succeed even when I disagree with the owner and recognize that the team isn't very good, but at least I have no illusions and I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is, which gives me the right to be a critic. I have no problems with Bills fans who are critics: there are and have been a lot of things about the team and the way that it has been run over the years that IMHO have been more than worthy of even the severest criticism and, while we may disagree over what some of those things have been or how much a particular thing deserves to be criticized, I think it is fair for Bills fans who support the team to air their criticisms, even if I don't agree with a particular one. But, if you're not willing to put your money where your mouth is and all you are going to do is complain because the owner and the people that he has hired are not doing what you would have them do, then I really don't want to hear it and, please, don't pretend that you are a Bills fan, no matter how much you may know about football or how passionate you are.

I salute all of you who are true Bills fans and have continued to support and go out of your way to support the team in good years and in bad, even when you have had doubts about the team, its owner and the decisions of its management. You are the ones who have kept the Bills in Buffalo and Buffalo on the national map in spite of the team's spotty record over the years and the mis-management of the region's economy (on this one point I do agree with ICE: WNY's political and business leaders should be put against a wall and shot for what they have done to the region's economy over the last 35 years!). I join you in looking forward to the day that the Bills finally bring the Lombardi Trophy back to Buffalo.

Man you guys are funny. Ralph is a crap owner, the other owners and the NFL its self cant wait until he passes. I have been that way from day one as a Bills fan. It didn't take me long to understand we wouldn't achieve much under this clown. But thank GOD for Bill Polian. At least through his great drafts we were able to contend for a superbowl, but Ralph had to screw that up too.

The sooner Ralph is gone, the sooner this team has a chance. New ownership right now would be STUPID to not move this team. I would give it a year or two before I did. I would put ticket prices up in the average range of the norm, Charge business a more normal rate for luxury boxes, sell stadium rights for those two years. IF at that point the seats are 30% empty and so are the boxes (or more) then the reality is Buffalo cant afford to keep the Bills and I move them.

'But ICE the CBA..' Is an excuse. If you can't make it without tons of help, time to move. Either the economy in that region will support the team or it wont. 'But I have been a fan for 35 years'. Great, its 2006 and you need to pay 2006 prices for your seats, parking, food etc...or lose the team.

[The_Philster]

Anyone who wants to move the Buffalo Bills can't in all honesty, call themselves a Bills fan :down:

Moving them destroys them as the Buffalo Bills. Do you think Browns fans accepted the move to Baltimore? :rolleyes:

[HHURRICANE]

There is nothing there. Hey kids lets move to Buffalo! We can watch mommy and daddy sit at home and draw unemployment while shoveling snow! 'But dad...what is there to do?' 'Well...shovel snow'.Please. Buffalo is a dying hole and anyone that isn't a die hard homer knows it.

Ice, I respect your contrarian opinion on football but you crossed the line here. What Buffalo needs is leadership not criticism. If you hate Buffalo so much go root for another team in another city.

I haven't lived in buffalo since '91 but I just gave money last year to redo the playground at West Elementary in West Seneca. Ice, instead of *****ing about Buffalo why don't you do something about it?

[shelby]

i am doing what i can to support the team. i've bought a ticket to the home opener, and i can't wait to come up and watch the Bills play...win or lose.
i just ordered this today:
http://images.footballfanatics.com/productImages/_116000/FF_116823_l.jpg

Here's hoping for warm weather.

:gobills:

[The last buffalo fan]

I only have to drive about half of that, JR. I don't mind it much, it just sucks for the trips I make up w/out my wife.

Always you can get another wife, but will be harder for you to have, another team to root for......................... Let's go Buffalo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Historian]

That....is going to look perfect on you!

I'm softening up Mrs. Historian for an authentic Throwback Jersey.

I almost have her.

:D

[Jan Reimers]

Ice, I respect your contrarian opinion on football but you crossed the line here. What Buffalo needs is leadership not criticism. If you hate Buffalo so much go root for another team in another city.

I haven't lived in buffalo since '91 but I just gave money last year to redo the playground at West Elementary in West Seneca. Ice, instead of *****ing about Buffalo why don't you do something about it?
I agree HH. In addition to our Bills tix, we try to see some Sabres and UB football games each year, we are members of the Buffalo Zoo, I'm a member of the UB Alumni Association, and we try to support Buffalo and WNY businesses whenever we're in the area.

[patmoran2006]

Yes, please do. I have had more than my fill of Ice and Pat Moran's pompous attitudes. Stop acting like you know more than everyone, you don't (maybe more than some, but not many). You guys are truely ruining this board, at least for me. It isn't much fun to come in here every day and listen to you berate people because they don't agree with you. If I ran this board you guys would be long gone. I have withheld any more donations to BZ until you guys are 86'd, hopefully that will be soon. Go Bills and Go Buffalo, we will persevere.

First of all, you can kiss my ass for even putting me in the same MENTION as Ice..

You talk a lot of crap and instead of doing that, why dont you go ahead and find me ONE post.. ONE SINGLE post, where I "berate" the Buffalo Bills and even more so, talk about the city of Buffalo itself or the Buffalo Bills should be leaving Buffalo. . You have NOT the first clue of what you are talking about, so maybe you should do your homework before making inaccurate, imature, STUPID posts with not an ounce of merit to them.

I've been a major yet realistic supporter of this team. I'm one of the VERY few who supported our draft from the day it took place. I've written a lot more positive articles on the Buffalo Bills than negative, and the ones that people like you perceive as negative are "question marks" about the team. Look them up for yourself, or shut your trap.

And with the exception of Ice or Skooby, you can also do a search and you find me a thread where I "berate" ANYBODY for disagreeing with me. And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only who berating them, nearly everybody does...

I implore you to do so. With the exception of one person who has garnered a much-deserved repuation for being Bi-Polar and changes his mind every third day, I respect the opinions of EVERYBODY. If I'm lying, go find me some threads proving otherwise.

So like I said, instead of popping smack why dont you provide some FACTS to back it up.. Until then, dont EVER associate my name with his again, and get some sort of a clue what you are talking about.

[patmoran2006]

And while everyone is at it.. I have a question that I"m interested in finding out the answer too.

Since Im banned from being able to see Ice's words.. I would truly love to find out WHEN you became a Bills hater and the city of Buffalo, as for this week you are obviously demonstrating.

When did the Bills do you wrong? You LOVED Marv Levy as GM.. YOu LOVED everything in Free Agency, you gloated about our "2-year plan" nearly every day..

When did it stop? Because we didnt take Bunkley in the draft? IM confused, someone enlighten me please. I've done dozens of thread searches from March through April 28. overnight the attitude changed.. Why?

[BuffaloBillsStampede]

Every year I try to get as many people to come to the games with me as I can, and everyone always has a blast no matter the final score. Buffalo is a great football city not because of wins or losses, but because of how passionately the fans care for their team. Ice you are not a Bills fan you are a jack ass and I don't care if I get in trouble for saying so. I hope I don't see you in Buffalo this year. Then there will be one extra ticket for a real Bills fan to enjoy their favorite team.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Every year I try to get as many people to come to the games with me as I can, and everyone always has a blast no matter the final score. Buffalo is a great football city not because of wins or losses, but because of how passionately the fans care for their team. Ice you are not a Bills fan you are a jack ass and I don't care if I get in trouble for saying so. I hope I don't see you in Buffalo this year. Then there will be one extra ticket for a real Bills fan to enjoy their favorite team.
They are pretty much the best 8 sundays of the year. Win or lose I always have a great time!

[patmoran2006]

To suck as bad as the Bills did last year and still sell out every home game and have it available on TV is a testament to how much Bills football matters to WNY.

And it's not just the Bills. A year ago nobody gave a **** about the NHL.. One year later, the Sabres are already near 12,000 season tix packages sold for next year.

BuffaloStampede: I like your point, and trust me on this.. The best way for him to go is just ignore him, something I for a long time was unable to do.

[BuffaloBillsStampede]

They are without a doubt the 8 best Sundays of the year and for that matter maybe the best 8 days of the year. What is better that seeing how pumped Takeo Spikes is to be playing football? For all the **** JP went through last year it was awesome to see how pumped he was at halftime of the Texans game, yelling at the crowd to get excited. How can you not love that stuff? Just thinking about it gives me chills. Hearing the crowd go nuts on 3rd down is what I live for.

[northernbillfan]

They are pretty much the best 8 sundays of the year. Win or lose I always have a great time!
I have a chance at a great shift at work which gives me the later part of the week off, something that is not usual when you work in arenas as most of the ice time is during the weekend. However that "great" shift includes working Sundays and I refused it (it was Sun, Mon, Tues, and Wed dayshift) due to the fact that I prefer to watch the Bills every Sunday than have a cushy shift.

I also have a "Do not call on Sunday for OT" clause.

[Dozerdog]

i am doing what i can to support the team. i've bought a ticket to the home opener, and i can't wait to come up and watch the Bills play...win or lose.
i just ordered this today:
http://images.footballfanatics.com/productImages/_116000/FF_116823_l.jpg

Here's hoping for warm weather.

:gobills:Do they come with the shapely boobs?

[shelby]

:sadwalk:

[Historian]

Ignore him Shelby.

You're gonna look smokin' in it.

And Dozer will still be wearing his Sabres jacket to Bills games.

[shelby]

Thanks!
Dozer doesn't have six pack abs....he has a quarter keg.
But i love him anyway.
:D

[CuseJetsFan83]

you know, being an "outsider" since im a jets fan...... i really would hate the loss of buffalo shoudl they leave........ not only would we lose a key opponent, but in syracuse we'd lose pretty much any NFL marketability. and because of our local tv station just falling within the buffalo "tv market" there would go any possible revenue with that. its not just buffalo it would hurt..... but pretty much niagara falls and surrounding areas......... rochester..... darien lake (if 6 flags doesnt sell that as well) and syracuse as well........... not ot mention all the places along the way that bills backers and fans of the opponents travel on the way to the RALPH


plus being in syracuse, buffalo is certainly the closest ill get to see any NFL action, so if its in a jets win or loss at the hands of the blue stampede........ well so be it.

the tailgating, the game, thats the wonderful thing

buffalo, and all of NY STATE is declining..... depressed, and for that 5-6 hours or more (game + travel + tailgating) can give the slightest bit of not worrying bout that pettycrap at home.

if your gonna groan me, what ever, but its true...... the true fans will be there thru thick and thin...... the casual fan is only gonna be around with wins, or the occasional big name.

and on that note, i hope i see ya september (pending i get tix)

[G. Host]

Many of us are critical of Ralph, Marv, Jauron, the draft, the QB situation, the general state of the team, and the constant disappointments of the last several years.

I am more critical of the fans especially those who are ticket holders and are selling them to scalpers selling to other teams. They are not much of fans IMO. I wish our fans were as good as Green Bay's but of course if that were true, those who lived out of town would find it very difficult to get tickets.

[HAMMER]

U know what is funny is that tell me a place right now were jobs are booming and paying top dollar for motivated experienced and educated workers, give me a break, i agree buffalo is not the place to be, but where is i lived in sandeigo, u work for what they pay u if not they fire u and hire someone who will work for that money, plus 14.00 and hour there is like 8 here, plus nobody is from there very unfriendly people, and in many other parts of the country it is the same way, we act like the bills have always sucked come on at least we got a team, ask iowa, nebraska, place like that who;s biggest excitement is college football, not that i dont like it but really we have made trips to the superbowl won divisions, and been pretty consistent before the TD debacle, no give it a chance to right itself, i dont post as much because some of the things said are absolutley ridicoulus and i talk football not about people;s feelings, enjoy the game not the area, enjoy the team and make sure we still got one in the future, trust me do some traveling alot of the cities that everyone think are so glamourous go walk around down there at night and see what happens, Atlanta, Vegas, Atlantic City, NYC, LA, Miami, leave there main strips and see what goes on u wanna see homeless and drug abuse, and crime, wake up

I find people in San Diego are plenty friendly, in fact when all my cousins came out from Buffalo last year for my wedding they couldn't believe how friendly everyone was to them. Maybe it was your approach to them.

[Michael82]

you know, being an "outsider" since im a jets fan...... i really would hate the loss of buffalo shoudl they leave........ not only would we lose a key opponent, but in syracuse we'd lose pretty much any NFL marketability. and because of our local tv station just falling within the buffalo "tv market" there would go any possible revenue with that. its not just buffalo it would hurt..... but pretty much niagara falls and surrounding areas......... rochester..... darien lake (if 6 flags doesnt sell that as well) and syracuse as well........... not ot mention all the places along the way that bills backers and fans of the opponents travel on the way to the RALPH


plus being in syracuse, buffalo is certainly the closest ill get to see any NFL action, so if its in a jets win or loss at the hands of the blue stampede........ well so be it.

the tailgating, the game, thats the wonderful thing

buffalo, and all of NY STATE is declining..... depressed, and for that 5-6 hours or more (game + travel + tailgating) can give the slightest bit of not worrying bout that pettycrap at home.

if your gonna groan me, what ever, but its true...... the true fans will be there thru thick and thin...... the casual fan is only gonna be around with wins, or the occasional big name.

and on that note, i hope i see ya september (pending i get tix)
wow, even a non Bills fan sees it! :shocked:

Good post, man! :bf1:

[Michael82]

I find people in San Diego are plenty friendly, in fact when all my cousins came out from Buffalo last year for my wedding they couldn't believe how friendly everyone was to them. Maybe it was your approach to them.
i was shocked how friendly they were in San Diego last year for the Bills/Chargers game weekend. It was very cool. Baltimore was nice the year before too. :up:

[The_Philster]

Seattle was pretty cool the year before, as well :idunno:

[Mr. Pink]

wow, even a non Bills fan sees it! :shocked:

Good post, man! :bf1:

So no matter how bad a team is, you can't do anything as a fan to show that you're upset or unhappy with the direction of the franchise? Just keep going to games because only a "true fan" does that. Sorry that's complete bullchit....100%.

We continue to sit here and line Mr. Wilsons' pocketbook no matter what he does, no matter what the product on the field looks like, why in the bloody hell is he gonna care about the on-field product? He's making his money regardless, and by spending less on players/coaches he's just pocketing more money. Apparently no one cares to see it this way though.

Just be happy we have a team, they could leave...if you don't go, they will leave. Really? That's the best reason to go to a football game? Because they might leave if you don't? Not that they'll try to field as best of a team as possible for me, you and the average joe to ENJOY a victory...lets face it wins are better than losses. The stadium is packed for a 5-11 pathetic team last year, why would he change the makeup of the onfield product all that much? People still go. We sign a bunch of middle tier average guys, and all of a sudden these players are great. Yet good teams snatch good players and we laugh at them and think they suck. OR even better, we diss them completely for spending tons of money.

Believe you, me I'd MUCH rather have Daniel Snyder, Jerry Jones, Robert Kraft, etc as the Bills owner over Ralph Wilson. Maybe if we did, we wouldn't be sitting in this position year after year trying to find SOME shred of hope for a season that we all know is going NOWHERE, whether you admit to that is another story. At least teams like the Redskins have HOPE...they try to make their team better each year, it doesn't always work, but they try. What do we do as a franchise? Sit here and try to convince ourselves that Andre Davis is a good WR......Robert Royal is the best blocking TE ever....Melvin Fowler is better than Tre Teague. It sickens me.

As it must sicken most of you as well, but NO one speaks up and says this stuff, because then god forbid, you're not a BILLS FAN. You should just go find a different team to root for if you don't like the moves by this pathetic organization. And yes, they are pathetic, why? Because they're allowed to get away with it year after year after year.
Why should any of us go find a different team to root for if we don't like the direction the organization is going?
How are any of us not a true fan?

I'm sorry if some of you sit here complacently about watching second rate football and just thank your lucky stars that Mr Wilson is still allowing the privilege of spending our hard earned dollars on a lemon. Then you sit there and believe his rhetoric on how the team is poor, people can't afford games, he's gonna loss money, he might have to move the team. Eph him. This stadium sells out CONSTANTLY but we can't afford the team here? Eph him.
The team is poor because he won't field a GOOD team that people would plunk down 5 dollars or so more a game, and even still SOME people would gladly spend it now even on this crap we call football.

And Mr Wilson if we're so poor why don't you use some PUBLIC STATURE to maybe do something about helping this community instead of sitting there pissing and moaning that you can't make 10 million dollars a year off all us poor folk. Wait, god forbid he could give back to the community that's supported and made him and his family wealthy for the past 45 years.

<end rant>

[Captain gameboy]

I may be in the minority, but I have never doubted Ralph's desire to do what it takes to win since about 1998.

I think there was a a valid finance/team strength argument before that, but not since he paid Flutie.

I think the guy will do whatever it takes moneywise. I just don't think he's hit the GM/HC/roster trifecta yet.

But..If Marv can provide an environment for the franchise to stabilize, and then pass on the GM duties, Ralph is not my worry.

My view is that this franchise was in very deep kimche after the firing of Donohoe, a move I completely supported.
It needs to stabilize before it moves forward. I think Marv is here to stabilize it, but I don't think he is the answer.

If we can build a base: If Jauron and staff works out: If we can then attract the FA's that we need, then Marv can pass the baton and we can get by this tough period.

[Dr. Lecter]

Believe you, me I'd MUCH rather have Daniel Snyder, Jerry Jones, Robert Kraft, etc as the Bills owner over Ralph Wilson. Maybe if we did, we wouldn't be sitting in this position year after year trying to find SOME shred of hope for a season that we all know is going NOWHERE, whether you admit to that is another story. At least teams like the Redskins have HOPE...they try to make their team better each year, it doesn't always work, but they try. What do we do as a franchise? Sit here and try to convince ourselves that Andre Davis is a good WR......Robert Royal is the best blocking TE ever....Melvin Fowler is better than Tre Teague. It sickens me.

<END rant>

First off if Snyder or Jones owned the Bills, they would have packed up for LA years ago. Why? Because they are greedy little men who do not care about the fans of their team. They do not appreciate that the small markets of this league built the league. Tell me what Snyder's insane spending has done for the Redskins? Nothing. Nada.

Secondly, tell me who you would have brought in instead of guys like Fowler (who is better than Teague) and Royal?

The fact is the Bills do bring in less money than teams like the Cowboys and Redskins. They do not sell PSL's like many teams. Their games are affordable. They have a kid's night during the pre-season so people can take their families. Do you really think Snyder would do that?

Lastly Raph has spent big money recently. Moulds. Spikes. Fletcher. Milloy. Schobel. Adams. Moorman. Lindell. So can the crap about him not spending.

[gr8slayer]

**** giving up on the Bills. If you are ready to give up then go find another team.

[gr8slayer]

Way too many words to address a person who changes his mind every other day.
Good post.

[Jan Reimers]

So no matter how bad a team is, you can't do anything as a fan to show that you're upset or unhappy with the direction of the franchise? Just keep going to games because only a "true fan" does that. Sorry that's complete bullchit....100%.

We continue to sit here and line Mr. Wilsons' pocketbook no matter what he does, no matter what the product on the field looks like, why in the bloody hell is he gonna care about the on-field product? He's making his money regardless, and by spending less on players/coaches he's just pocketing more money. Apparently no one cares to see it this way though.

Just be happy we have a team, they could leave...if you don't go, they will leave. Really? That's the best reason to go to a football game? Because they might leave if you don't? Not that they'll try to field as best of a team as possible for me, you and the average joe to ENJOY a victory...lets face it wins are better than losses. The stadium is packed for a 5-11 pathetic team last year, why would he change the makeup of the onfield product all that much? People still go. We sign a bunch of middle tier average guys, and all of a sudden these players are great. Yet good teams snatch good players and we laugh at them and think they suck. OR even better, we diss them completely for spending tons of money.

Believe you, me I'd MUCH rather have Daniel Snyder, Jerry Jones, Robert Kraft, etc as the Bills owner over Ralph Wilson. Maybe if we did, we wouldn't be sitting in this position year after year trying to find SOME shred of hope for a season that we all know is going NOWHERE, whether you admit to that is another story. At least teams like the Redskins have HOPE...they try to make their team better each year, it doesn't always work, but they try. What do we do as a franchise? Sit here and try to convince ourselves that Andre Davis is a good WR......Robert Royal is the best blocking TE ever....Melvin Fowler is better than Tre Teague. It sickens me.

As it must sicken most of you as well, but NO one speaks up and says this stuff, because then god forbid, you're not a BILLS FAN. You should just go find a different team to root for if you don't like the moves by this pathetic organization. And yes, they are pathetic, why? Because they're allowed to get away with it year after year after year.
Why should any of us go find a different team to root for if we don't like the direction the organization is going?
How are any of us not a true fan?

I'm sorry if some of you sit here complacently about watching second rate football and just thank your lucky stars that Mr Wilson is still allowing the privilege of spending our hard earned dollars on a lemon. Then you sit there and believe his rhetoric on how the team is poor, people can't afford games, he's gonna loss money, he might have to move the team. Eph him. This stadium sells out CONSTANTLY but we can't afford the team here? Eph him.
The team is poor because he won't field a GOOD team that people would plunk down 5 dollars or so more a game, and even still SOME people would gladly spend it now even on this crap we call football.

And Mr Wilson if we're so poor why don't you use some PUBLIC STATURE to maybe do something about helping this community instead of sitting there pissing and moaning that you can't make 10 million dollars a year off all us poor folk. Wait, god forbid he could give back to the community that's supported and made him and his family wealthy for the past 45 years.

<end rant>
Your attitude is a perfect example of why I started this thread. While I'm not as unhappy as you about the current state of the Bills and Ralph's ownership style, I'm not really thrilled about a lot of things, either.

I think we went backward in a hurry under Donahoe and his idiotic head coaching selections, but I think Ralph wants to put a good product on the field, and I feel that we are certainly moving in that direction under Levy.

But even if you think Ralph is the second coming of Hitler, why wouldn't you continue to try to keep the team in Buffalo? He is already rich, but the Bills are one of the most likely franchises in the NFL to leave. So withdrawing your support at this stage doesn't really hurt Ralph, but it hurts the Bills chances of staying in Buffalo.

We may get better on the field under Ralph's ownership with Levy running the show, or it may take new ownership after Ralph passes to get us back in contention.

I would simply like our turnaround to happen in Buffalo and not LA, and all I'm saying is if we let our hatred of Ralph or our frustration with the last several years prevent us from buying tickets, we're no longer going to have a team with which to have a love-hate relationship

[Jan Reimers]

Let me put it more succinctly. If anyone is so pissed at Ralph in particular or the Bills in general that they want them to move, they are not a Bills' fan.

[justasportsfan]

The only thing ICE is a fan of is HIMSELF.

[ICE74129]

So no matter how bad a team is, you can't do anything as a fan to show that you're upset or unhappy with the direction of the franchise? Just keep going to games because only a "true fan" does that. Sorry that's complete bullchit....100%.

We continue to sit here and line Mr. Wilsons' pocketbook no matter what he does, no matter what the product on the field looks like, why in the bloody hell is he gonna care about the on-field product? He's making his money regardless, and by spending less on players/coaches he's just pocketing more money. Apparently no one cares to see it this way though.

Just be happy we have a team, they could leave...if you don't go, they will leave. Really? That's the best reason to go to a football game? Because they might leave if you don't? Not that they'll try to field as best of a team as possible for me, you and the average joe to ENJOY a victory...lets face it wins are better than losses. The stadium is packed for a 5-11 pathetic team last year, why would he change the makeup of the onfield product all that much? People still go. We sign a bunch of middle tier average guys, and all of a sudden these players are great. Yet good teams snatch good players and we laugh at them and think they suck. OR even better, we diss them completely for spending tons of money.

Believe you, me I'd MUCH rather have Daniel Snyder, Jerry Jones, Robert Kraft, etc as the Bills owner over Ralph Wilson. Maybe if we did, we wouldn't be sitting in this position year after year trying to find SOME shred of hope for a season that we all know is going NOWHERE, whether you admit to that is another story. At least teams like the Redskins have HOPE...they try to make their team better each year, it doesn't always work, but they try. What do we do as a franchise? Sit here and try to convince ourselves that Andre Davis is a good WR......Robert Royal is the best blocking TE ever....Melvin Fowler is better than Tre Teague. It sickens me.

As it must sicken most of you as well, but NO one speaks up and says this stuff, because then god forbid, you're not a BILLS FAN. You should just go find a different team to root for if you don't like the moves by this pathetic organization. And yes, they are pathetic, why? Because they're allowed to get away with it year after year after year.
Why should any of us go find a different team to root for if we don't like the direction the organization is going?
How are any of us not a true fan?

I'm sorry if some of you sit here complacently about watching second rate football and just thank your lucky stars that Mr Wilson is still allowing the privilege of spending our hard earned dollars on a lemon. Then you sit there and believe his rhetoric on how the team is poor, people can't afford games, he's gonna loss money, he might have to move the team. Eph him. This stadium sells out CONSTANTLY but we can't afford the team here? Eph him.
The team is poor because he won't field a GOOD team that people would plunk down 5 dollars or so more a game, and even still SOME people would gladly spend it now even on this crap we call football.

And Mr Wilson if we're so poor why don't you use some PUBLIC STATURE to maybe do something about helping this community instead of sitting there pissing and moaning that you can't make 10 million dollars a year off all us poor folk. Wait, god forbid he could give back to the community that's supported and made him and his family wealthy for the past 45 years.

<END rant>

AMEN! Outfriggin standing! But hey, you dont want to be called a non bills fan by the lemmings do you? :roflmao:

[ICE74129]

Let me put it more succinctly. If anyone is so pissed at Ralph in particular or the Bills in general that they want them to move, they are not a Bills' fan.

Bull crap. not only are you wrong, but you dont have the right to say what defines a true fan period.

BTW Moving right now would be the BEST THING for the BILLS (not the other lemmings that line ralphs pocket regardless of the crap he fields). The city and county can't and wont support them. It isn't up to Jerry jones to do so, he takes care of his own team.

[R. Rich]

You're wrong, ICE.

[ICE74129]

First off if Snyder or Jones owned the Bills, they would have packed up for LA years ago. Why? Because they are greedy little men who do not care about the fans of their team. They do not appreciate that the small markets of this league built the league. Tell me what Snyder's insane spending has done for the Redskins? Nothing. Nada.

Secondly, tell me who you would have brought in instead of guys like Fowler (who is better than Teague) and Royal?

The fact is the Bills do bring in less money than teams like the Cowboys and Redskins. They do not sell PSL's like many teams. Their games are affordable. They have a kid's night during the pre-season so people can take their families. Do you really think Snyder would do that?

Lastly Raph has spent big money recently. Moulds. Spikes. Fletcher. Milloy. Schobel. Adams. Moorman. Lindell. So can the crap about him not spending.

first off GOOD! Move the damn team. All buffalonians can do is ***** and whine. Do something to keep the team. Affordable prices? How about getting them up to the league average to help keep the team here? Get luxury boxes up to a normal range as well.

Kids night great and all, but does it help pay to keep the Bills in Buffalo? Sorry can't have it both ways.

And Ralph his a cheap ass and always has been. thank God for Bill Polian and the final years before Free agency or this team would have always been crap.

[ICE74129]

Your attitude is a perfect example of why I started this thread. While I'm not as unhappy as you about the current state of the Bills and Ralph's ownership style, I'm not really thrilled about a lot of things, either.

I think we went backward in a hurry under Donahoe and his idiotic head coaching selections, but I think Ralph wants to put a good product on the field, and I feel that we are certainly moving in that direction under Levy.

But even if you think Ralph is the second coming of Hitler, why wouldn't you continue to try to keep the team in Buffalo? He is already rich, but the Bills are one of the most likely franchises in the NFL to leave. So withdrawing your support at this stage doesn't really hurt Ralph, but it hurts the Bills chances of staying in Buffalo.

We may get better on the field under Ralph's ownership with Levy running the show, or it may take new ownership after Ralph passes to get us back in contention.

I would simply like our turnaround to happen in Buffalo and not LA, and all I'm saying is if we let our hatred of Ralph or our frustration with the last several years prevent us from buying tickets, we're no longer going to have a team with which to have a love-hate relationship

No if the Bills leave its because of a cheap assed owner and CHEAPER FANS!! this is the New age of the NFL, get with it or get out. Quit the *****ing and whining and pay up to keep the team here.

[R. Rich]

ICE, you're still wrong.

[justasportsfan]

BTW Moving right now would be the BEST THING for the BILLS (not the other lemmings that line ralphs pocket regardless of the crap he fields). .

So the best thing for the Buffalo bills is to not have a team?

If it wasn't against TOS to call anyone an idiot ........

[R. Rich]

Yeah, justa. Don't do it. Idiot.

[Jan Reimers]

ICE, you're a quitter. You don't like the owner, so move the team. You don't like us cheap assed fans who buy season tickets to support the team, so move the team. You don't like the Buffalo area, because it has fallen on hard times economically, so move the team.

If you were a Bills fan and not a quitter, you would fight to keep the team in Buffalo. But you'd rather ***** about everything and give up.

[R. Rich]

ICE is a Bills fan, JR. He's just is as passionate in his belief that the local economy is so screwed up and nobody is willing to change it as you are that by supporting the team you can have a say in keeping them in town.

I think you're both wrong.

[Jan Reimers]

I may not have a real say in whether the Bills will stay, but I can buy tickets and merchandise to try to help their situation. I know that ultimately it may not matter, but I think they will be more likely to stay if the stadium is packed every Sunday.

I simply don't understand Baills' fans who seem to want them to leave, or believe their leaving is inevitable. I believe in fighting as best I can for what causes I believe in, and not giving up.

[Captain gameboy]

I don't mind a little venting as the result of frustration.
I do mind comments on the Bills looking like nothing more than juvenile tantrums from people who aren't getting their way.

Further, the course the NFL chooses is its own choice.
If it decides to become an elite entertainment product willing to perform for only the highest bidder, it will be a major mistake.

Common folk built this thing, and "delivered" it to corporate America and their grossly priced/tax advantaged boxes.
They were nowhere to be seen in the 60's, when the popularity of the game was the genesis that resulted in today's TV contracts that all owners enjoy.

It is hard enough to listen to idotic players responding to idiotic questions at idiotic press conferences. The product has nothing without the support of the common guy/gal.
If the NFL ditches places like Buffalo and Green Bay, they do so at their own peril, at least as far as I am concerned, because without its base, the high end payers go away as fast as they can.
The graveyards are full of businesses that forgot about their roots and tried to become something they are not.

Fortunately, I think the NFL has better business savvy that you do ICE.

[R. Rich]

Very nice post, gameboy.


You're wrong, too.

[Jan Reimers]

Very nice post, gameboy.


You're wrong, too.
Rich, now that we're all wrong, what's the answer?

[R. Rich]

I dunno.

You must realize, JR, that when you're pointing out who is wrong, you don't need the answer. You just accuse and move on.

What a life.

[Jan Reimers]

I dunno.

You must realize, JR, that when you're pointing out who is wrong, you don't need the answer. You just accuse and move on.

What a life.
Alrighty then, I think I'll just keep rooting for the Bills, buying tickets, hanging with my friends, and hoping for the best. See you at the Brew Pub.:dance:

[justasportsfan]

Yeah, justa. Don't do it. Idiot.:bravo:

[R. Rich]

Alrighty then, I think I'll just keep rooting for the Bills, buying tickets, hanging with my friends, and hoping for the best. See you at the Brew Pub.:dance:

I'll be there w/ beers, I mean, bells on.

[The_Philster]

Thing that ICE and others who claim to be Bills fans yet really aren't (if you wanna move the team, which, by doing so will destroy it as we know it...you aren't even close to being a Bills fan) fail to realize is that the reason ticket prices are lower in Buffalo than pretty much every place else is because that's what people can afford...the cost of living is lower in Buffalo than, say Washington for example, so people just aren't going to get paid as much. The NFL is set up for teams to succeed regardless of the price of living in their localities. It's why the salary cap was set up...to establish an equal ground. Some teams just have found ways to cheat the system better than others. :idunno:

[ICE74129]

ICE, you're a quitter. You don't like the owner, so move the team. You don't like us cheap assed fans who buy season tickets to support the team, so move the team. You don't like the Buffalo area, because it has fallen on hard times economically, so move the team.

If you were a Bills fan and not a quitter, you would fight to keep the team in Buffalo. But you'd rather ***** about everything and give up.

No I'm a Bills fan but a buisness man as well and a realist. If I owned the bills I would make sure I personally and though business had the money to do what I could to field a competitive team (unlike Cheap ralph).

I would then Sell naming rights, as well as increase ticket sales to league average and do the same with the luxury boxes. Now I would talk to the NFL about the CBA and revenue sharing, aka not ***** and whine in the media about it, in regards to the Bills and other small market teams. When I talk to the NFL I now have legitimate issues since I have done all I can to keep the team here.

Now at that point either fans pay the prices and business buy the boxes or....

The fate of the Bills would now be dependant on these 'non Quitters' and 'Real fans' as you put it. Now do you want to know the REALITY of that situation? You 'real fans' would *****, whine and not come because you 'can't afford it'. Business wouldn't buy the boxes because they 'can't afford it'. City, county and some state officials would say 'screw you ....the Bills aren't worth the money to keep them here' to me. I would then move the team.

Guess what? That REALITY is coming sooner than not. Yeah I know local billionare this, billionare that, all are businessmen and NONE are going to buy and fork out tons of money to keep an NFL team in an economically depressed area, just for the love of it. Just to be a 'real fan'. Sorry, life doesn't work that way. So here it is in a nutshell, elect better people in office, pay the ticket and box prices that are up to speed with the NFL....or lose the team.

[ICE74129]

Thing that ICE and others who claim to be Bills fans yet really aren't (if you wanna move the team, which, by doing so will destroy it as we know it...you aren't even close to being a Bills fan) fail to realize is that the reason ticket prices are lower in Buffalo than pretty much every place else is because that's what people can afford...the cost of living is lower in Buffalo than, say Washington for example, so people just aren't going to get paid as much. The NFL is set up for teams to succeed regardless of the price of living in their localities. It's why the salary cap was set up...to establish an equal ground. Some teams just have found ways to cheat the system better than others. :idunno:

No what us real Bills fan understand is this...pay the prices or the team moves. This is the new NFL.

Funny how some call it cheating, I call it smart, hard work. Don't get pissed because old cheap ralph is stuck in 1950 something in his thinking. We need an owner like Kraft or Jones to get this team on track. Problem is, any SMART owner, wouldn't touch this team. Why? just like you said, Buffalo can't afford the Bills.

It isn't Jerry Jones, Bob Kraft ets' job to save the Bills. Its Ralph Wilson's and the local economy's. Neither is apperantly capable of doing so.

[The_Philster]

just like you said, Buffalo can't afford the Bills.
little word of advice to you, ICE...dishonesty is my biggest pet peeve so don't you ever put words in my mouth again!!!

[ICE74129]

little word of advice to you, ICE...dishonesty is my biggest pet peeve so don't you ever put words in my mouth again!!!

"fail to realize is that the reason ticket prices are lower in Buffalo than pretty much every place else is because that's what people can afford..."

So you did say Buffalo can't afford the Bills. You say what they pay now is all they can afford. Ticket sales can't stay and them be ' lower in buffalo than pretty much everywhere else' and the Bills stay. I do believe that the NFL has already mentioned Ralph needs to increase ticket prices more to the norm? I swear I read that in one of the articles on this subject, along with him needing to sell stadium rights. But the reality is Buffalo fans are going to have to start paying more normal prices for the team to stay, CBA or not.

so don't get all upset with me because I used your own words to back the reality of this subject.

[justasportsfan]

No what us real Bills fan understand is this...pay the prices or the team moves. This is the new NFL.

.


You cannot charge an area whose wages are way lower than that of a team where wages are way higher the same amount. That's just stupid business sense.

Hey ICE houses are cheaper in Buffalo than in Washington. DUH!!!!




If I owned the bills . Now that I've seen your way of thinking, we won't ever have to worry about that. You'll never own a pro team

No matter what criticism ICE has of Wilson, he can't even hold his depends when it comes to business. Knowing ICE, he probably thinks he knows better than Wilson like he knows better than Marv. I know ICE has me on ignore but who cares. His credibility here in BZ is shot. Talks a big game but nothing in his resume' to support his claims.


Like I said, he's a fan of himself. It's all in his head. :coocoo:

[The_Philster]

"fail to realize is that the reason ticket prices are lower in Buffalo than pretty much every place else is because that's what people can afford..."

So you did say Buffalo can't afford the Bills. You say what they pay now is all they can afford. Ticket sales can't stay and them be ' lower in buffalo than pretty much everywhere else' and the Bills stay. I do believe that the NFL has already mentioned Ralph needs to increase ticket prices more to the norm? I swear I read that in one of the articles on this subject, along with him needing to sell stadium rights. But the reality is Buffalo fans are going to have to start paying more normal prices for the team to stay, CBA or not.

so don't get all upset with me because I used your own words to back the reality of this subject.http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/user_pics/11-1148260547.gif You twisted my words there, junior. Nowhere did I say anything remotely close to saying we couldn't afford the Bills. The salary cap allows us to afford them. Sounds to me like you miss the days before the salary cap and free agency where only the richest cities could afford to be competitive on a regular basis. Little newsflash for you...those times were over years ago and the day they're over is the day the league starts to start losing...might wanna catch up with the rest of us if you're going to discuss current affairs in the NFL

[ICE74129]

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/user_pics/11-1148260547.gif You twisted my words there, junior. Nowhere did I say anything remotely close to saying we couldn't afford the Bills. The salary cap allows us to afford them. Sounds to me like you miss the days before the salary cap and free agency where only the richest cities could afford to be competitive on a regular basis. Little newsflash for you...those times were over years ago and the day they're over is the day the league starts to start losing...might wanna catch up with the rest of us if you're going to discuss current affairs in the NFL
Junior? Thats pathetic Phil. Now back to reality, yes the days of pre salary cap are over, and again YOU don't get that. Money talks, or the team does.

now the CBA says you can only spend so much on salaries for your players. It says nothing on Signing bonuses, nor does it put a cap on makeable incentives etc.

At no time does the salary cap allow us to 'afford the Bills'. Learn more about the CBA and what it actually does before posting crap like that.

But don't worry phil, keep hugging your Bills pillow and wishing on lucky stars. The realists like myself won't be the ones suprised when the bills move.

[ICE74129]

You cannot charge an area whose wages are way lower than that of a team where wages are way higher the same amount. That's just stupid business sense.

Hey ICE houses are cheaper in Buffalo than in Washington. DUH!!!!



Now that I've seen your way of thinking, we won't ever have to worry about that. You'll never own a pro team

No matter what criticism ICE has of Wilson, he can't even hold his depends when it comes to business. Knowing ICE, he probably thinks he knows better than Wilson like he knows better than Marv. I know ICE has me on ignore but who cares. His credibility here in BZ is shot. Talks a big game but nothing in his resume' to support his claims.


Like I said, he's a fan of himself. It's all in his head. :coocoo:

You have never seen my resume nor will you. Again you make presumptions on things you aren't capable of comprehending. But again just like with phil, the reality will hit very soon and I for one am going to lmao when it does.

[The_Philster]

Bonuses are included in the salary cap limits there, genius :rolleyes: ...they're just spread out over the contract for cap purposes. Incentives also go against the cap. It's just that if, for example, Lee Evans makes an extra 500K in incentives in 2006, they won't apply to the cap until 2007.


I for one am going to lmao when it does.<!-- / message -->You DO realize that any hope you may have had of ever being taken seriously went out the window with this statement, right? You're gonna laugh about the Bills being no more? :coocoo: Hell, most Fish fans don't even seem to want that and you're claiming to be a Bills fan? :roflmao:

[gr8slayer]

The only thing ICE is a fan of is HIMSELF.
And blowing people for fake reputation.

[Jan Reimers]

No I'm a Bills fan but a buisness man as well and a realist. If I owned the bills I would make sure I personally and though business had the money to do what I could to field a competitive team (unlike Cheap ralph).

I would then Sell naming rights, as well as increase ticket sales to league average and do the same with the luxury boxes. Now I would talk to the NFL about the CBA and revenue sharing, aka not ***** and whine in the media about it, in regards to the Bills and other small market teams. When I talk to the NFL I now have legitimate issues since I have done all I can to keep the team here.

Now at that point either fans pay the prices and business buy the boxes or....

The fate of the Bills would now be dependant on these 'non Quitters' and 'Real fans' as you put it. Now do you want to know the REALITY of that situation? You 'real fans' would *****, whine and not come because you 'can't afford it'. Business wouldn't buy the boxes because they 'can't afford it'. City, county and some state officials would say 'screw you ....the Bills aren't worth the money to keep them here' to me. I would then move the team.

Guess what? That REALITY is coming sooner than not. Yeah I know local billionare this, billionare that, all are businessmen and NONE are going to buy and fork out tons of money to keep an NFL team in an economically depressed area, just for the love of it. Just to be a 'real fan'. Sorry, life doesn't work that way. So here it is in a nutshell, elect better people in office, pay the ticket and box prices that are up to speed with the NFL....or lose the team.
ICE, you totally fail to realize that Ralph has been an exceptional owner in his loyalty to the Buffalo area, as well as an astute businessman.

He worked with the county to get a new stadium built in 1973, and to make significant renovations in the late 90s. He built what was at the time the largest indoor practice facility in the league (the fieldhouse), and now has a summer camp in Pittsford which has become a model for the NFL.

More importantly, he regionalized the franchise at a time when the population and economy of Buffalo and Erie County were shrinking. By increasing the size of his market, and pegging ticket prices to that market's economy, he has managed to keep the stadium full almost every week.

He has been a champion of the league's small market teams, and recently - when it looked as if the CBA were going to reduce revenues for the smaller teams - he elicited a firestorm of political and public support, and landed on the committee which will write the actual revenue-sharing language

Since he has owned the Bills, greedy owners from much larger cities - including Baltimore, Cleveland, Houston and Los Angeles, not to mention Oakland flip flopping to LA and back - have moved their teams with absolutely no regard for their fans.

Ralph has stuck it out all these years in a much tougher market than any of those cities, and he continues to fight to keep the team in Buffalo. I'd say he's been a loyal owner and a good businessman. I just hope the Bills wind up in the hands of someone as loyal to Buffalo as Ralph has been.

[ICE74129]

Bonuses are included in the salary cap limits there, genius :rolleyes: ...they're just spread out over the contract for cap purposes. Incentives also go against the cap. It's just that if, for example, Lee Evans makes an extra 500K in incentives in 2006, they won't apply to the cap until 2007.

You DO realize that any hope you may have had of ever being taken seriously went out the window with this statement, right? You're gonna laugh about the Bills being no more? :coocoo: Hell, most Fish fans don't even seem to want that and you're claiming to be a Bills fan? :roflmao:

Phil, you don't know what you are talking about and the more you post, the worse you get at it. Bonus money paid is NOT included in the CBA. See you are confused here or just don't understand the CBA.

The Cap is just a number that contracts don't exceed. Bonuses can be as high as an owner wants them to be. Nothing is guaranteed in the NFL that is why players want more BONUS money up front. The TV contract just about covers the cap number for each team. Where does the bonus money come from? Bingo, ol Ralphs pocketbook.

Again you can't tell the differance between the CBA and the cap. But that really doesn't suprise me. Most of you just take good ol ralphies word as gospel.

that said, The Bills won't be 'no more' when they move, they will just be re located. but hey, if you guys can get off of your whiny butts and make some changes in Erie Co etc, and get ready to pay real NFL prices, they might stay. Might being the operative word. Get with the times Phil, pay up or they leave

[ICE74129]

ICE, you totally fail to realize that Ralph has been an exceptional owner in his loyalty to the Buffalo area, as well as an astute businessman.

He worked with the county to get a new stadium built in 1973, and to make significant renovations in the late 90s. He built what was at the time the largest indoor practice facility in the league (the fieldhouse), and now has a summer camp in Pittsford which has become a model for the NFL.

More importantly, he regionalized the franchise at a time when the population and economy of Buffalo and Erie County were shrinking. By increasing the size of his market, and pegging ticket prices to that market's economy, he has managed to keep the stadium full almost every week.

He has been a champion of the league's small market teams, and recently - when it looked as if the CBA were going to reduce revenues for the smaller teams - he elicited a firestorm of political and public support, and landed on the committee which will write the actual revenue-sharing language

Since he has owned the Bills, greedy owners from much larger cities - including Baltimore, Cleveland, Houston and Los Angeles, not to mention Oakland flip flopping to LA and back - have moved their teams with absolutely no regard for their fans.

Ralph has stuck it out all these years in a much tougher market than any of those cities, and he continues to fight to keep the team in Buffalo. I'd say he's been a loyal owner and a good businessman. I just hope the Bills wind up in the hands of someone as loyal to Buffalo as Ralph has been.

Out of the now 32 teams, how many have moved? And I'm not worried about Al davis and his oakland to la back to oakland crap. Thats the same as Buffalo to rochester, back to buffalo. Still in the state, still accessible to the immediate fanbase. Not that many. Ralph didn't stick anything out here. Since the CBA has been in place he has hired the cheapest GM's, Staff and Players he could possibly get. This is evidenced by our downfall from 1996 till now. Yeah we snuck into the playoffs a couple times, but give me a break. This team has been doomed from the day Kelly retired and marv as well.

Until recently ralph has sat back and let you guys pad his pockets. Now the the CBA rules are stating he can't do that anymore. No more easy free money for ralphie. he has to now get off of his butt and try and make it like Bob Kraft did. Normal ticket prices, selling rights etc. Well ralph doesn't want to do that. He has his cash cow...err the fans of WNY. And he expects every other owner in the NFL to fund his team. Those days are over, and rightfully so.

And another thing, ralph has held you guys and that city hostage for years. If you don't give him this or that..we will have to move. So you guys flock and make sure you put the county in further debt by pressuring your elected officials to hand ralph MORE money.

You know what ralphs whining about the CBA is really about? The selling clause. Because right now it keeps him from selling this team. Oh and the part about him getting off of his wrinkled butt and actually spending money and charging locals real ticket prices, aren't helping either. He just wants to make sure he has a shot this next offseason of selling that team or passing it on to his wife to sell. Ralph wilson is no saint and never has been. He is a business man whos time has passed.

[Jan Reimers]

Out of the now 32 teams, how many have moved? And I'm not worried about Al davis and his oakland to la back to oakland crap. Thats the same as Buffalo to rochester, back to buffalo. Still in the state, still accessible to the immediate fanbase. Not that many. Ralph didn't stick anything out here. Since the CBA has been in place he has hired the cheapest GM's, Staff and Players he could possibly get. This is evidenced by our downfall from 1996 till now. Yeah we snuck into the playoffs a couple times, but give me a break. This team has been doomed from the day Kelly retired and marv as well.

Until recently ralph has sat back and let you guys pad his pockets. Now the the CBA rules are stating he can't do that anymore. No more easy free money for ralphie. he has to now get off of his butt and try and make it like Bob Kraft did. Normal ticket prices, selling rights etc. Well ralph doesn't want to do that. He has his cash cow...err the fans of WNY. And he expects every other owner in the NFL to fund his team. Those days are over, and rightfully so.

And another thing, ralph has held you guys and that city hostage for years. If you don't give him this or that..we will have to move. So you guys flock and make sure you put the county in further debt by pressuring your elected officials to hand ralph MORE money.

You know what ralphs whining about the CBA is really about? The selling clause. Because right now it keeps him from selling this team. Oh and the part about him getting off of his wrinkled butt and actually spending money and charging locals real ticket prices, aren't helping either. He just wants to make sure he has a shot this next offseason of selling that team or passing it on to his wife to sell. Ralph wilson is no saint and never has been. He is a business man whos time has passed.
I didn't say Ralph was a saint, but he has been a successful businessman and a great owner for a small market team in a struggling economy.

He has made money - not as much as the other owners in huge cities, of course - and has increased the value of the franchise, despite playing in perhaps the most depressed area in the NFL. That makes him a good businessman.

He has kept the team in Buffalo through thick and thin, unlike the Irsays and Modells of the world, who stabbed their fans in the back to run off to new cities with better deals. Ralph certainly could have made a lot more money by moving this franchise elsewhere. And while the last 6 years have been disappointing, we have had our share of success on the field, too. All of those things make Ralph a damn good - and loyal - owner.

Ralph is now older and probably should sell or give day-to-day control to someone else. Perhaps the parade has passed him by, and maybe WNY can't support a team in the "new" NFL.

But I'm grateful to Ralph for keeping the team in Buffalo all these years, and for fighting the new breed of greedy owners on behalf of the small market teams. And I think Ralph has made it possible, with the right new ownership, for the Bills to remain in Buffalo.

[R. Rich]

That is one thing I'll give Mr Wilson a ton of credit for: he didn't cut and run, even though he probably could have on many occasions. Still, it would be nice if (the fake) Erie County had any kind of competence so that something long term could be worked out so that there wouldn't be this ongoing debate.

[gr8slayer]

You have never seen my resume nor will you. Again you make presumptions on things you aren't capable of comprehending. But again just like with phil, the reality will hit very soon and I for one am going to lmao when it does.
We dont have to see your resume, we have to read your posts everday.

Post edited: Attack the post and not the poster. Thank you

[BuffaloBillsStampede]

yeah you suck pretty bad ICE

[Jan Reimers]

We dont have to see your resume, we have to read your posts everday. Based on your posts, you are a compulsive liar, you change your mind on an almost daily basis, you are obsessed with a fake reputation due to lack of sex in real life, and you have the education of a chimp.
Stop holding back, gr8slayer, and tell us how you really feel.:dance:

[justasportsfan]

You have never seen my resume nor will you. Again you make presumptions on things you aren't capable of comprehending. But again just like with phil, the reality will hit very soon and I for one am going to lmao when it does.Blah, blah ,blah.

Yeah, we believe that you also are richer and know more about owning a team than Wilson just like we believe that you know more than Marv.

Don't you have me on ignore or did you change your mind again?

PS :your "resume's" got more s#@t than a septic tank.

[ICE74129]

yeah you suck pretty bad ICE

Ouch gee that hurt...LMAO

[ICE74129]

Blah, blah ,blah.

Yeah, we believe that you also are richer and know more about owning a team than Wilson just like we believe that you know more than Marv.

Don't you have me on ignore or did you change your mind again?

PS :your "resume's" got more s#@t than a septic tank.

ROTFLMAO sure all star soccer player...sure....

[northernbillfan]

Play nice people.

Thread closed