What the realists would like to see.

[ICE74129]

First off improvement. JP needs to be the QB, he needs all 16 games with full support of the staff. That will go a long way to improving this team.

Offense, We need to see the line actually providing protection for the QB. The running game hasn't been that bad (see TH and WM stats) but pass protection has been horrible.

Defense, Stop the run. Stop 3rd down conversions and get off of the field. Start forcing turnovers.

Coaching. Better leadership. Pick JP stick with him and have the testicular fortitude to tell the fans and the 'veterans' tough ****. He is the QB deal with it.

Also better playcalling across the board. Better use of what personel you have. Dont' run a damn pass play on first down, up 21-0 on the road from the opponants 1 yard line!!! Dont' call off the dogs when up 21-3 or 21-7. Put your foot on their throat and crush them.

The flipside of that...make good adjustments. Its fine to stay the course of the gameplan as long as you are willing to make adjustments as needed.

Overall consistancy. Lets see (outside of injury) the same OL end the season that started the season. Same with the rest of the starters (sans maybe a rookie coming in and outplaying a vet mid season).


the REALITY is no playoffs. But what us realists want to see is consistancy, and improvement this year.

what we REALLY want to see is ralph wilson and Marv levy spend some damn money next offseason. I mean REAL money on some top talent that will help this team. Guess what? Being Buffalo they will have to OVERPAY to get some of that talent. So be it. What is it worth to field a winner? EVERYTHING!! We will have a ton of cap room next offseason, use it.

[THATHURMANATOR]

That sounds similar to what the Homers want also!

[Mr. Miyagi]

Can't you see, "you and I, we're the same!"

http://ia.imdb.com/media/imdb/01/I/43/65/22m.jpg

[Captain gameboy]

Start a poll.

Use this thread title.

"What the realists want to see."

One choice.

A. Who cares.

Sounds like a weiner to me.

[Jan Reimers]

That sounds similar to what the Homers want also!
I agree. I think the difference is that the homers believe that many of these things will happen. The realists don't.

[TacklingDummy]

The realists think JP will be a bust. The Homers make up every excuse in the book to protect JP.

[Jan Reimers]

The realists think JP will be a bust. The Homers make up every excuse in the book to protect JP.
No, most realists, like most homers, don't know how good JP can be, because he has not as yet had the full opportunity to prove himself. Only the TacklingDummies think he is a bust.

[FlyingDutchman]

I agree. I think the difference is that the homers believe that many of these things will happen. The realists don't.

exactly, the homers leave the option open that things could fall into place resulting in a good season, while "realists" just see the problems and are convinced theres no chance of it improvement.

[LtBillsFan66]

That sounds similar to what the Homers want also!
EXACTLY!

[LtBillsFan66]

I agree. I think the difference is that the homers believe that many of these things will happen. The realists don't.
Or can happen.

The "realists" "know" it won't happen.

[TacklingDummy]

like most homers, don't know how good JP can be, because he has not as yet had the full opportunity to prove himself. .

2 excuses right there. Thanks for proving my point.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Most "realists" want JP to play in all 16 games, wheather he sucks or not.

Homers want the best player to play and hope for the best.

[Patrick76777]

Most "realists" want JP to play in all 16 games, wheather he sucks or not.

Homers want the best player to play and hope for the best.


this is true.

[justasportsfan]

Is ICE the spokesperson of the realists?

[Jan Reimers]

Most "realists" want JP to play in all 16 games, wheather he sucks or not.

Homers want the best player to play and hope for the best.
I guess I'm a member of the Homers for JP, sort of like that Jews for Jesus group that I saw on Fox today.

[Jan Reimers]

2 excuses right there. Thanks for proving my point.
What exactly is your point, TD? That you know with certainty after 8 starts that JP will never be any good?

PM me a couple of stock picks - or better yet, option market sure things - will you?

[mayotm]

2 excuses right there. Thanks for proving my point.I don't know why I (or anybody else) bothers responding to your moronic posts, but what is your deal with JP???? There are countless of examples of QB's that performed much worse over their first eight games that have turned out pretty damn good. That's not an "excuse", rather a fact. You seem to have a personal vendetta against JP. Did he somehow wrong you or your family?

[The_Philster]

I don't know why I (or anybody else) bothers responding to your moronic posts, but what is your deal with JP???? There are countless of examples of QB's that performed much worse over their first eight games that have turned out pretty damn good. That's not an "excuse", rather a fact. You seem to have a personal vendetta against JP. Did he somehow wrong you or your family?
It has to be something personal...I tried for months to get a valid reason why JP wouldn't succeed out of him and he never came up with one.

[TacklingDummy]

I don't know why I (or anybody else) bothers responding to your moronic posts, but what is your deal with JP???? There are countless of examples of QB's that performed much worse over their first eight games that have turned out pretty damn good. That's not an "excuse", rather a fact. You seem to have a personal vendetta against JP. Did he somehow wrong you or your family?

JP Homers compare JP to Manning, Young, Farve, Marino, Kelly, Eli, Palmer

JP Realists compare JP to Harrington, Akili Smith, Rob Johnson, Marinovich, Drunkenmiller, Ware, Shuler, Leaf

[TacklingDummy]

It has to be something personal...I tried for months to get a valid reason why JP wouldn't succeed out of him and he never came up with one.

Going by his play the last 2 years the chances of JP succeeding are slim. And what has JP done to think he will succeed?

Odds are he won't. Im just being a realist. And not a homer.

[LtBillsFan66]

I'm a homer who has concerns about JP. I don't think he'll be any good. But I don't KNOW that!!! I hope I'm wrong!

[jmb1099]

Going by his play the last 2 years the chances of JP succeeding are slim. And what has JP done to think he will succeed?

Odds are he won't. Im just being a realist. And not a homer.
If you were being a realist you'd stop trying to sell Losman as a two year QB. If you were being a realist you wouldn't withhold any information relevant to Losman, including all of the things you call excuses, if you were being a realist you wouldn't continually hijack every thread and turn it into a Losman debate. No sir, you are not a realist, at best a Losman hater, but most likley nothing more than an attention whore who thrives on any kind of attention he can get. You'll never be a realist until you start being real about all of the circumstances regarding Losman's whole situation.

[The_Philster]

How is Losman a 2-year QB when he's only played a little over half a season? :huh:

[ICE74129]

Most "realists" want JP to play in all 16 games, wheather he sucks or not.

Homers want the best player to play and hope for the best.

Thats because homers dont' understand football.

[ICE74129]

I'm a homer who has concerns about JP. I don't think he'll be any good. But I don't KNOW that!!! I hope I'm wrong!

I can save you the trouble, you're wrong.

[ICE74129]

How is Losman a 2-year QB when he's only played a little over half a season? :huh:

What Phil you dont' get that? I mean having a veteran late hit you and bust your leg up so you sit most of your first season still qualifies. Taking snaps during the season means NOTHING! just watch game film.

Then you get 1 full start before being pulled for a couple series in your 2nd game, only get to start 4 before benched and that = another full season. Dont' you get that? (yep that was dripping with tons of sarcasm)

[ICE74129]

If you were being a realist you'd stop trying to sell Losman as a two year QB. If you were being a realist you wouldn't withhold any information relevant to Losman, including all of the things you call excuses, if you were being a realist you wouldn't continually hijack every thread and turn it into a Losman debate. No sir, you are not a realist, at best a Losman hater, but most likley nothing more than an attention whore who thrives on any kind of attention he can get. You'll never be a realist until you start being real about all of the circumstances regarding Losman's whole situation.

Outstanding! Look the guy is a disgruntled Bledsoe fan or worse. Ignore him.

[The_Philster]

Thats because homers dont' understand football.
this from a guy who can't grasp the basics of the salary cap yet thinks he does :rolleyes:

[TacklingDummy]

If you were being a realist you'd stop trying to sell Losman as a two year QB. If you were being a realist you wouldn't withhold any information relevant to Losman, including all of the things you call excuses, if you were being a realist you wouldn't continually hijack every thread and turn it into a Losman debate. No sir, you are not a realist, at best a Losman hater, but most likley nothing more than an attention whore who thrives on any kind of attention he can get. You'll never be a realist until you start being real about all of the circumstances regarding Losman's whole situation.


A JP Homer on defend and attack mode.

I see you forgot to answer my question, what has JP done to even think he will be a successful NFL QB?

[TacklingDummy]

How is Losman a 2-year QB when he's only played a little over half a season? :huh:

True, im sorry I was wrong, JP will be going into his 3rd year.

[ICE74129]

this from a guy who can't grasp the basics of the salary cap yet thinks he does :rolleyes:

I get the salary cap just fine. You are the one trying to group everything under it and are incorrect in doing so.

[The_Philster]

I get the salary cap just fine. You are the one trying to group everything under it and are incorrect in doing so.
:roflmao: I'm not the one claiming bonuses don't count against the cap

[Captain gameboy]

Thats because homers dont' understand football.

Ya. Its really tough to understand.

Bring more people to the point of attack.

If you can't, bring better skill.

I've been playing it, coaching it and watching it for 40 years all told, and that what it comes down to.

Real freakin' calculus.

I do harder things every day before noon.

[Devin]

The word "homer" is used entirley to much in this thread.

[BillsFever21]

First off improvement. JP needs to be the QB, he needs all 16 games with full support of the staff. That will go a long way to improving this team.

Offense, We need to see the line actually providing protection for the QB. The running game hasn't been that bad (see TH and WM stats) but pass protection has been horrible.

Defense, Stop the run. Stop 3rd down conversions and get off of the field. Start forcing turnovers.

Coaching. Better leadership. Pick JP stick with him and have the testicular fortitude to tell the fans and the 'veterans' tough ****. He is the QB deal with it.

Also better playcalling across the board. Better use of what personel you have. Dont' run a damn pass play on first down, up 21-0 on the road from the opponants 1 yard line!!! Dont' call off the dogs when up 21-3 or 21-7. Put your foot on their throat and crush them.

The flipside of that...make good adjustments. Its fine to stay the course of the gameplan as long as you are willing to make adjustments as needed.

Overall consistancy. Lets see (outside of injury) the same OL end the season that started the season. Same with the rest of the starters (sans maybe a rookie coming in and outplaying a vet mid season).


the REALITY is no playoffs. But what us realists want to see is consistancy, and improvement this year.

what we REALLY want to see is ralph wilson and Marv levy spend some damn money next offseason. I mean REAL money on some top talent that will help this team. Guess what? Being Buffalo they will have to OVERPAY to get some of that talent. So be it. What is it worth to field a winner? EVERYTHING!! We will have a ton of cap room next offseason, use it.

I'm glad you're rooting for JP this year but for how long will it be?

Last year you were all up on Kelly Holcomb's nutsack. Have an opinion and stick with it.

It's ok to have a different flavor of the month when it comes to women but not football.

[BillsFever21]

If you were being a realist you'd stop trying to sell Losman as a two year QB. If you were being a realist you wouldn't withhold any information relevant to Losman, including all of the things you call excuses, if you were being a realist you wouldn't continually hijack every thread and turn it into a Losman debate. No sir, you are not a realist, at best a Losman hater, but most likley nothing more than an attention whore who thrives on any kind of attention he can get. You'll never be a realist until you start being real about all of the circumstances regarding Losman's whole situation.

:clap:

Don't listen to him. He was probably abused as a child, works in food service for minimum wage and dropped out of school at 16 years old. He has been this way for years.

I can't recall many(if any) times he has actually talked about a different position on the team except for QB.

JP had some good times and some bad times on an awful team with the worst coaching in the league. He still managed to throw 8 TD's in 8 games his first time out. He also made some explosive plays with his legs and showed some good pocket awareness a good percentage of the time. Even with his rugged 3 game stretch off the bat he still managed to average a TD pass a game. That is much better then most first year QB's can say for themselves.

Had he played the entire season he would've thrown for around 15 TD's. That's not too shabby for a young first year starter and much more success then most other QB's had.

Hopefully Jauron and Fairchild is the real deal. I'm not too high on Jauron but I have some optimism for Fairchild. Hopefully everything will work out and Losman and Fairchild can click together.

There will still be growing pains with Losman this year. He's not gonna light it up every game this year. If he plays the entire season and tosses 15-20 TD's it will be a good start and something to build on for next year. He's in a new offense and it will take time to learn. 15 TD's is probably more reachable.

If he can have that type of success this season then in 2007 we could look foward to a breakout year. It will be his 2nd year in the offense and 2 years as a full time starter. He could be looking at 20+ TD's and establishing himself as a good QB in this league.

He has all the tools. He needs the coaches to put him in a good position to excel and learn the game. The foundation needs to be laid this year. If the coaches end up stinking again it will be a long season or two and probably the end of JP in Buffalo. Hopefully we have the right staff.

[LtBillsFan66]

The word "homer" is used entirley to much in this thread.
Homer hater. :mad:

[TacklingDummy]

:clap:

Don't listen to him. He was probably abused as a child, works in food service for minimum wage and dropped out of school at 16 years old. He has been this way for years.



Im sure I make more then 80% of the Upstate NYers on this board.

The rest of your post is typical JP homerish. Defend and Attack.

It's boring talking about the O-line, D-line, CB etc.... And I have talked about those before.

[jmb1099]

A JP Homer on defend and attack mode.

I see you forgot to answer my question, what has JP done to even think he will be a successful NFL QB?
First of all you never asked me a question. Second you have seen all the arguments laid out already, not only by me, but by others as well, so for the sake of everyones sanity I won't rehash comparison after comparison. If you're really that interested to know run a search, you won't because this isn't about a legitimate discussion for you, its about getting attention. I'll be the first to say that if Losman doesn't show improvement this year than its time to think about someone else being our QB for the future, that is realistic. Any NFL qb needs time to develop and to think 8 games is enough time to make an evaulation isn't realistic. He needs a real chance and not your idea of a real chance either. Give him a full season and then we can make a real evaulation. Right now you're just hatin and speculating.

[TacklingDummy]

I'll be the first to say that if Losman doesn't show improvement this year than its time to think about someone else being our QB for the future, that is realistic. Any NFL qb needs time to develop and to think 8 games is enough time to make an evaulation isn't realistic. He needs a real chance and not your idea of a real chance either. Give him a full season and then we can make a real evaulation. .

I agree with most of this. I've already said Losman should be starter this year if he wins the job in camp. Which he should have no problem doing. It's not like he competiting against anyone with much talent.

But if he does struggle for lets say 8 out of the first 11 weeks. I think it's time to pull the plug on the experiment and put Nall in. It would also be wise to see what Nall has this year if JP struggles.

My problem with Losman is, everyone says he has all this talent, if Holcomb can look better then him last year then theres something wrong with JPs talent. Holcomb sucks, and dont give me this crap about experience. Holcomb sucks and even a inexperience 2nd year QB who supposedly has talent should look better then him.

[Throne Logic]

I. . .competiting. . .

Is that anything like a wet tee shirt contest?

[Bill Cody]

First off improvement. JP needs to be the QB, he needs all 16 games with full support of the staff. That will go a long way to improving this team.



Agreed. Brady Quinn or Troy Smith would improve the team a lot.

[SABURZFAN]

Thats because I dont' understand football.


that's better.... :up:

[Bill Cody]

I agree with most of this. I've already said Losman should be starter this year if he wins the job in camp. Which he should have no problem doing. It's not like he competiting against anyone with much talent.

But if he does struggle for lets say 8 out of the first 11 weeks. I think it's time to pull the plug on the experiment and put Nall in. It would also be wise to see what Nall has this year if JP struggles.

My problem with Losman is, everyone says he has all this talent, if Holcomb can look better then him last year then theres something wrong with JPs talent. Holcomb sucks, and dont give me this crap about experience. Holcomb sucks and even a inexperience 2nd year QB who supposedly has talent should look better then him.

8 games is not enough for the hard core, carry JP's picture in their wallets, and "doesn't he throw a lovely spiral" crowd. Every incompletion will be bad protection or the receiver ran the wrong route or the sun was in his eyes. 8 more weeks won't put a dent in the hard core amigos devotion. No, to erase any doubt of his ineptitude JP needs the full 16 weeks. Hand him the job again if necessary. But at the end of the year it will all be worth it.

[ICE74129]

Agreed. Brady Quinn or Troy Smith would improve the team a lot.

Quinn and smith would get killed. JP's the man, now go root for dallas

[ICE74129]

JP needs the full 16 weeks. Hand him the job again if necessary. But at the end of the year it will all be worth it.

Agreed, because he will be a success and guys like you will finally shut up.

[finsrclowns]

Agreed, because he will be a success and guys like you will finally shut up.


Let me get this straight: you say the GM sucks, the coach sucks, both lines suck, the RB sucks, the receivers suck, the team is doomed to move, but JP is going to succeed? How does that work?:confused:

[The_Philster]

Let me get this straight: you say the GM sucks, the coach sucks, both lines suck, the RB sucks, the receivers suck, the team is doomed to move, but JP is going to succeed? How does that work?:confused:
don't confuse him with logic and facts :cynic:

[ICE74129]

Let me get this straight: you say the GM sucks, the coach sucks, both lines suck, the RB sucks, the receivers suck, the team is doomed to move, but JP is going to succeed? How does that work?:confused:

I didn't say it would be in Buffalo did I?

[finsrclowns]

I didn't say it would be in Buffalo did I?

Yes you did. Repeatedly and with conviction. Or at least repeatedly.:chuckle:

[justasportsfan]

FinsR, he's allowed to change his mind.

[finsrclowns]

FinsR, he's allowed to change his mind.

Maybe he got confused on which board he was on.:oops:

[BidsJr]

Going by his play the last 2 years the chances of JP succeeding are slim. And what has JP done to think he will succeed?

Odds are he won't. Im just being a realist. And not a homer.

Yup JP definately banged his girlfriend.

[BidsJr]

8 games is not enough for the hard core, carry JP's picture in their wallets, and "doesn't he throw a lovely spiral" crowd. Every incompletion will be bad protection or the receiver ran the wrong route or the sun was in his eyes. 8 more weeks won't put a dent in the hard core amigos devotion. No, to erase any doubt of his ineptitude JP needs the full 16 weeks. Hand him the job again if necessary. But at the end of the year it will all be worth it.


His too.

[justasportsfan]

Maybe he got confused on which board he was on.:oops:
Nope, his posts are based on which voice is posting for the day.

[finsrclowns]

Nope, his posts are based on which voice is posting for the day.

Which voice is the football expert coach? I seem to have missed that one somehow.:nerd: