That's it, I'm done

[OpIv37]

I wish I could believe that every Bills coach was the next Bellicheck, that every FA addition is the one that's finally going to put us over the proverbial hump, that every Bills draft pick is the biggest steal since Tom Brady in Round 6, that every player on the Bills is a veteran performer with a legit shot at the Pro Bowl. But, unlike some of you, I can't because it's just not realistic.

Some people will say that means I'm not a fan. They're entitled to their opinion, but they're completely wrong. I'm still going to get NFL Sunday Ticket and I'm still going to watch every second of Bills football. I'm still going to go to 1-3 games, which is a lot considering I live 400 miles away and had to use all my vacation time for family matters this year. I just won't be expecting anything to come of it.

Some of you refuse to see that Dick Jauron isn't Bill Bellicheck or Marv Levy, that Roscoe Parrish isn't Steve Smith, that Peerless Price is washed up, that McGahee only cares about money, that the DL still sucks, that Nate Clements isn't as great as we once thought he was, etc. I can't change that. But I can quit wasting my life arguing about it.

I'm sure this will make some of you happy since you think I'm pissing in your Wheaties. Just don't come crying to me when you finally realize that those Wheaties were stale and moldy before I got anywhere near them.

[The_Philster]

It may be unrealistic to expect a lot all the time, but it's also unrealistic to think that because it's the Bills, nothing is going to work out. There's a happy medium in there where the truth can be found that many pessimists seem afraid to look at

[shelby]

Enjoy, Op!
:beers:


:gobills:

[YardRat]

Paragraph 1 - :clap:

Paragraph 2 - :clap:

Paragraph 3 - Although I also have opinions on some of those mentioned, I still hold on to the hope that...

Jauron will be a more successful coach in his second stint at the helm, as many others (including Belicheck and Levy) have done in the past...

Parrish will develop into a quality reciever...

Price can return to some semblence of the player he was when he left the team...

McGahee and Clements return to their 2004 level of play, at least for this year...

[mayotm]

I wish I could believe that every Bills coach was the next Bellicheck, that every FA addition is the one that's finally going to put us over the proverbial hump, that every Bills draft pick is the biggest steal since Tom Brady in Round 6, that every player on the Bills is a veteran performer with a legit shot at the Pro Bowl. But, unlike some of you, I can't because it's just not realistic.

Some people will say that means I'm not a fan. They're entitled to their opinion, but they're completely wrong. I'm still going to get NFL Sunday Ticket and I'm still going to watch every second of Bills football. I'm still going to go to 1-3 games, which is a lot considering I live 400 miles away and had to use all my vacation time for family matters this year. I just won't be expecting anything to come of it.

Some of you refuse to see that Dick Jauron isn't Bill Bellicheck or Marv Levy, that Roscoe Parrish isn't Steve Smith, that Peerless Price is washed up, that McGahee only cares about money, that the DL still sucks, that Nate Clements isn't as great as we once thought he was, etc. I can't change that. But I can quit wasting my life arguing about it.

I'm sure this will make some of you happy since you think I'm pissing in your Wheaties. Just don't come crying to me when you finally realize that those Wheaties were stale and moldy before I got anywhere near them.I don't suppose you can get ICE to join you in your sabbatical?

[BillsFever21]

I wish I could believe that every Bills coach was the next Bellicheck, that every FA addition is the one that's finally going to put us over the proverbial hump, that every Bills draft pick is the biggest steal since Tom Brady in Round 6, that every player on the Bills is a veteran performer with a legit shot at the Pro Bowl. But, unlike some of you, I can't because it's just not realistic.

Some people will say that means I'm not a fan. They're entitled to their opinion, but they're completely wrong. I'm still going to get NFL Sunday Ticket and I'm still going to watch every second of Bills football. I'm still going to go to 1-3 games, which is a lot considering I live 400 miles away and had to use all my vacation time for family matters this year. I just won't be expecting anything to come of it.

Some of you refuse to see that Dick Jauron isn't Bill Bellicheck or Marv Levy, that Roscoe Parrish isn't Steve Smith, that Peerless Price is washed up, that McGahee only cares about money, that the DL still sucks, that Nate Clements isn't as great as we once thought he was, etc. I can't change that. But I can quit wasting my life arguing about it.

I'm sure this will make some of you happy since you think I'm pissing in your Wheaties. Just don't come crying to me when you finally realize that those Wheaties were stale and moldy before I got anywhere near them.

Even when we do have a losing season they will just say that next year is when we will turn it around.

Everytime we replace a coach for a new cheap alternative the same people says that we upgraded and this is the guy to lead us. We've upgraded 3 times in the last 6 years.

What I brought up in the other post about the crybabies running to mommy and you can tell which ones are them type of people. Look at the people who negged me. Dead on.

Don't let these people get to you. It isn't worth arguing over everyday because they have been the same for years and always will be.

They get upset when you speak bad about us. Some just doesn't have anything else in life to make them happy.

[The_Philster]

Even when we do have a losing season they will just say that next year is when we will turn it around.so are you saying we'll never turn it around? Because if that's not what you're saying...are we supposed to come to you and ask when it's ok to look forward to football?


Everytime we replace a coach for a new cheap alternative the same people says that we upgraded and this is the guy to lead us. We've upgraded 3 times in the last 6 years.Personally, I'm not sure if this is an upgrade or not...but people whined because we kept hiring unexperienced head coaches...we got one with experience this time...a former Coach of the Year even...and they're still whining...sounds to me like some will never be happy

[Dr. Lecter]

You see Op, what your problem is is that you are twisting everybody's words around to make your case. Most people that you are upset with are saying that nobosy knows how these changes are going to help or hurt the Bills. But you, and others, are not even willing to give this team a chance.

The fact is Marv's record as GM is 0-0. As is Jauron's record as Bills HC. Nobody really knows if the Cover 2 scheme, the return of Spikes, the addition of Whitner, Tripplet and some added depth will help the defense. Nobody knows if Reyes, Fowler, Royal and perhaps Preston will improve the O-line.

Unlike those that like to ***** about the wind changing direction, some people are willing to wait before we judge. We want to see what this team does before we assume that all of the moves suck.

Going through life assuming all is poor without any tangible evidence is sad.

[John Doe]

You see Op, what your problem is is that you are twisting everybody's words around to make your case.

Exactly.

[Jan Reimers]

Op, I think it's too early to write off Jauron and Parrish - as well as JP and some of our other guys, and who knows about Price? Of course McGahee is in it for the money, as are most of the spoiled rich babies in the NFL, but I won't care if he produces on the field this year. Clements will be gone after this year, which is why we drafted Youboty.

The point is, why not wait and see how some of our moves work out, instead of blasting each and every thing the Bills do?

I think we've embarked on a plan to rebuild the defense, which Donahoe had almost completely ignored, and better utilize our young, fast, athletic offensive guys.

I think the O line still needs help, and we are awfully inexperienced at DT, but I am willing to reserve judgment on our progress until we actually start playing.

[ICE74129]

I wish I could believe that every Bills coach was the next Bellicheck, that every FA addition is the one that's finally going to put us over the proverbial hump, that every Bills draft pick is the biggest steal since Tom Brady in Round 6, that every player on the Bills is a veteran performer with a legit shot at the Pro Bowl. But, unlike some of you, I can't because it's just not realistic.

Some people will say that means I'm not a fan. They're entitled to their opinion, but they're completely wrong. I'm still going to get NFL Sunday Ticket and I'm still going to watch every second of Bills football. I'm still going to go to 1-3 games, which is a lot considering I live 400 miles away and had to use all my vacation time for family matters this year. I just won't be expecting anything to come of it.

Some of you refuse to see that Dick Jauron isn't Bill Bellicheck or Marv Levy, that Roscoe Parrish isn't Steve Smith, that Peerless Price is washed up, that McGahee only cares about money, that the DL still sucks, that Nate Clements isn't as great as we once thought he was, etc. I can't change that. But I can quit wasting my life arguing about it.

I'm sure this will make some of you happy since you think I'm pissing in your Wheaties. Just don't come crying to me when you finally realize that those Wheaties were stale and moldy before I got anywhere near them.

Don't stop now. When reality comes crashing down I want more with me to remind the homers.

[Dr. Lecter]

And if this team greatly improves in the next couple of years?

Are you going to come back with your tail between your legs for not even giving Marv and crew a chance?

[SABURZFAN]

And if this team greatly improves in the next couple of years?

Are you going to come back with your tail between your legs for not even giving Marv and crew a chance?



we could act like him with the "i told you so" attitude and stick the crow down his throat with the feathers. :up:

[mayotm]

Don't stop now. When reality comes crashing down I want more with me to remind the homers.Sadly, you probably hope the Bills have a poor season so you can say you were right.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I wish I could believe that every Bills coach was the next Bellicheck, that every FA addition is the one that's finally going to put us over the proverbial hump, that every Bills draft pick is the biggest steal since Tom Brady in Round 6, that every player on the Bills is a veteran performer with a legit shot at the Pro Bowl. But, unlike some of you, I can't because it's just not realistic.

Some people will say that means I'm not a fan. They're entitled to their opinion, but they're completely wrong. I'm still going to get NFL Sunday Ticket and I'm still going to watch every second of Bills football. I'm still going to go to 1-3 games, which is a lot considering I live 400 miles away and had to use all my vacation time for family matters this year. I just won't be expecting anything to come of it.

Some of you refuse to see that Dick Jauron isn't Bill Bellicheck or Marv Levy, that Roscoe Parrish isn't Steve Smith, that Peerless Price is washed up, that McGahee only cares about money, that the DL still sucks, that Nate Clements isn't as great as we once thought he was, etc. I can't change that. But I can quit wasting my life arguing about it.

I'm sure this will make some of you happy since you think I'm pissing in your Wheaties. Just don't come crying to me when you finally realize that those Wheaties were stale and moldy before I got anywhere near them.
I don't even like Wheaties Op...

[The_Philster]

I don't even like Wheaties Op...
:spit: I can't blame you considering how much Op and the "realists" piss in them

[Tatonka]

Unlike those that like to ***** about the wind changing direction, some people are willing to wait before we judge. We want to see what this team does before we assume that all of the moves suck.

Going through life assuming all is poor without any tangible evidence is sad.

ding ding ding ding.. we have a winner..

OP.. your not a bad guy, and you have some football knowledge, but your whiny ass posts and negative attitude are nothing but a buzz kill. dont let the proverbial door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

by the way.. i would be surprised if your not back before training camp.

[OpIv37]

Going through life assuming all is poor without any tangible evidence is sad.

no tangible evidence, but as BF21 pointed out, historical precedence- the Bills have tried these same stunts 3 times in the last 6 years with no results. I can't comprehend why so many people are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

[Amare]

Go Bills?

[OpIv37]

The point is, why not wait and see how some of our moves work out, instead of blasting each and every thing the Bills do?


I haven't blasted everything the Bills have done- I said the TE position was upgraded this year, I liked the Watson pickup and I think the A-train signing adds depth at RB that didn't previously exist. And I liked that Peters got an extension. I've even said I think the team is moving in the right direction long term (assuming I'm wrong about Jauron and he's not a dud).

I don't think any of these moves are going to get us into the playoffs this year, but they're certainly improvements.

Contrary to popular belief around here, I don't bash every single thing the Bills do. But some people have preconceived notions about what I'm going to say and read what they want to read instead of what I actually wrote.

[The_Philster]

no tangible evidence, but as BF21 pointed out, historical precedence- the Bills have tried these same stunts 3 times in the last 6 years with no results. I can't comprehend why so many people are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
so are you resigned to the idea that the Bills can never turn it around because they've had a bad stretch the past several years? Cause honestly, that's what you guys seem to be doing...giving up.

and honestly..what same stunts have they tried? We have a new GM without experience (but experienced working with a great GM in the past)..the GM we had with experience sucked...a new coach with experience and some success...the unexperienced head coaches sucked....looks to me like we've changed up some things

[T-Nasty24]

^Yup

[OpIv37]

ding ding ding ding.. we have a winner..

OP.. your not a bad guy, and you have some football knowledge, but your whiny ass posts and negative attitude are nothing but a buzz kill. dont let the proverbial door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

by the way.. i would be surprised if your not back before training camp.

I'm not going away because I still want to read the Bills news and stuff on here- I'm just not going to get embroiled in the same arguments over and over again like I usually do. I'm going to limit my posts to the more non-controversial subjects and avoid getting entangled in heated discussions.

[OpIv37]

so are you resigned to the idea that the Bills can never turn it around because they've had a bad stretch the past several years? Cause honestly, that's what you guys seem to be doing...giving up.

until they prove otherwise I will have extremely low expectations for this team.

[The_Philster]

until they prove otherwise I will have extremely low expectations for this team.
and you refuse to believe they're trying to get better?

[OpIv37]

so are you resigned to the idea that the Bills can never turn it around because they've had a bad stretch the past several years? Cause honestly, that's what you guys seem to be doing...giving up.

and honestly..what same stunts have they tried? We have a new GM without experience (but experienced working with a great GM in the past)..the GM we had with experience sucked...a new coach with experience and some success...the unexperienced head coaches sucked....looks to me like we've changed up some things

see, this is where I would normally type my Jauron speech that's already on the boards at least 3 times. But I'm not going to get bogged down in it this time.

[The_Philster]

see, this is where I would normally type my Jauron speech that's already on the boards at least 3 times. But I'm not going to get bogged down in it this time.
No offense...but it sounds to me like you want a reason to complain. It's not like Lombardi or Noll or Walsh were gonna drop into our laps. A really successful head coach is going to either already have a job or be retired at least. Jauron had some success and he's been a head coach. Will he become a great one like Belichek has...whose first stint as a head coach...some success but overall was no good...or Levy? No one knows..we'll have to see....but the fact that a HOF coach in Marv Levy made the choice to hire him is a good sign in his favor, IMO :up:

[OpIv37]

No offense...but it sounds to me like you want a reason to complain. It's not like Lombardi or Noll or Walsh were gonna drop into our laps. A really successful head coach is going to either already have a job or be retired at least. Jauron had some success and he's been a head coach. Will he become a great one like Belichek has...whose first stint as a head coach...some success but overall was no good...or Levy? No one knows..we'll have to see....but the fact that a HOF coach in Marv Levy made the choice to hire him is a good sign in his favor, IMO :up:

nice try. but I'm not going to bite.

[The_Philster]

nice try. but I'm not going to bite.
cause you know you can't debate against that ;)

[Night Train]

Is there any reason for this thread , other than to scream " Look At Me ! " ?

[ParanoidAndroid]

...There's a happy medium in there where the truth can be found...

Thank you!!!!!

[ParanoidAndroid]

Sadly, you probably hope the Bills have a poor season so you can say you were right.

He doesn't really care because he has "a winner to route for" in Carolina. Straight quote from him.

[HAMMER]

Is there any reason for this thread , other than to scream " Look At Me ! " ?

Exactly!

[TigerJ]

I'm not going away because I still want to read the Bills news and stuff on here- I'm just not going to get embroiled in the same arguments over and over again like I usually do. I'm going to limit my posts to the more non-controversial subjects and avoid getting entangled in heated discussions.

That's pretty much what I do anyway, except in the Spin Zone where I will get my nose bloodied occasionally. I even dish a little out there sometimes.

[Mr. Cynical]

Even when we do have a losing season they will just say that next year is when we will turn it around.

Everytime we replace a coach for a new cheap alternative the same people says that we upgraded and this is the guy to lead us. We've upgraded 3 times in the last 6 years.

:10:

Exactly. And the one constant amidst all these crappy changes?

Ralph.

We're stuck with him so I guess we just have to wait it out until a new owner takes over. Until then, I will hope for the best but most certainly expect the worst.

[LtBillsFan66]

I thought you were gone. :down:

[Nighthawk]

Just like it is not realistic to think that everything will go Buffalo's way, it is also not realistic to think that NOTHING will go Buffalo's way. You don't have to think that Buffalo is on the verge of going to the Super Bowl, but you should at least hope they will.

[LtBillsFan66]

Just like it is not realistic to think that everything will go Buffalo's way, it is also not realistic to think that NOTHING will go Buffalo's way. You don't have to think that Buffalo is on the verge of going to the Super Bowl, but you should at least hope they will.
:bf1:

[OpIv37]

Just like it is not realistic to think that everything will go Buffalo's way, it is also not realistic to think that NOTHING will go Buffalo's way. You don't have to think that Buffalo is on the verge of going to the Super Bowl, but you should at least hope they will.

I've also addressed this many times. You should read people's posts before you talk ****.

[Mr. Cynical]

I've also addressed this many times. You should read people's posts before you talk ****.

But this is the crux of the homer's defense. They say the realists say we will "suck forever" or "never will win", etc, etc. because it's an easy way to discredit us. The problem is that none of us to my knowledge has ever said these words.

We are saying the probability in the near future is yes, we will suck, and for various reasons we've already mentioned. And we've also stated that the current FO is not in all likelihood going to turn it around during their tenure, for the various reasons we've already mentioned.

My problem with the homers is their "anything can happen" card. Sure...I can walk down the street and find a check made out to cash for $1M. I get it. Anything can happen in this universe. But to use that as the primary basis for having optimism is the true definition of homerism.

[Mitchy moo]

You see Op, what your problem is is that you are twisting everybody's words around to make your case. Most people that you are upset with are saying that nobosy knows how these changes are going to help or hurt the Bills. But you, and others, are not even willing to give this team a chance.

The fact is Marv's record as GM is 0-0. As is Jauron's record as Bills HC. Nobody really knows if the Cover 2 scheme, the return of Spikes, the addition of Whitner, Tripplet and some added depth will help the defense. Nobody knows if Reyes, Fowler, Royal and perhaps Preston will improve the O-line.

Unlike those that like to ***** about the wind changing direction, some people are willing to wait before we judge. We want to see what this team does before we assume that all of the moves suck.

Going through life assuming all is poor without any tangible evidence is sad..

Most intelligent post of the week.

[The_Philster]

Anything can happen in this universe. But to use that as the primary basis for having optimism is the true definition of homerism.<!-- / message -->http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/user_pics/11-1148260547.gif If one were to use that as the primary reason for truly believing things would happen on the positive side, it'd be homerism. Using it as the basis for optimism is what being a fan is all about

[Mitchy moo]

But this is the crux of the homer's defense. They say the realists say we will "suck forever" or "never will win", etc, etc. because it's an easy way to discredit us. The problem is that none of us to my knowledge has ever said these words.

We are saying the probability in the near future is yes, we will suck, and for various reasons we've already mentioned. And we've also stated that the current FO is not in all likelihood going to turn it around during their tenure, for the various reasons we've already mentioned.

My problem with the homers is their "anything can happen" card. Sure...I can walk down the street and find a check made out to cash for $1M. I get it. Anything can happen in this universe. But to use that as the primary basis for having optimism is the true definition of homerism.

Guys the $1 M BS is getting old. The odds on the bills having a successful season is not a million to one.

[shelby]

I'm not going away because I still want to read the Bills news and stuff on here- I'm just not going to get embroiled in the same arguments over and over again like I usually do. I'm going to limit my posts to the more non-controversial subjects and avoid getting entangled in heated discussions.
:bf1: Thank you!

[shelby]

Anything can happen in this universe. But to use that as the primary basis for having optimism is the true definition of homerism.
Does this attitude apply to your every day life?

If so, i pity you.:pet:

[Mr. Cynical]

Does this attitude apply to your every day life?

If so, i pity you.:pet:

Well you know the old saying, "ignorance is bliss". So no, I'm not blissful. Nothing I can do about that, outside of getting a lobotomy.

[Mr. Cynical]

Guys the $1 M BS is getting old. The odds on the bills having a successful season is not a million to one.

So is the "anything can happen" BS. And nice lie there - show me where I said the odds were a million to one.

[Mr. Cynical]

The fact is Marv's record as GM is 0-0. As is Jauron's record as Bills HC. Nobody really knows if the Cover 2 scheme, the return of Spikes, the addition of Whitner, Tripplet and some added depth will help the defense. Nobody knows if Reyes, Fowler, Royal and perhaps Preston will improve the O-line.

TD's record as Bills' GM was 0-0.
GW's record as Bills' HC was 0-0.
KG's record as Bills' OC was 0-0.
MM's record as Bills' HC was 0-0.
TC's record as Bills's OC was 0-0.


Going through life assuming all is poor without any tangible evidence is sad.

Nobody is talking about life. We're talking about football. Not being able to discern the difference is what is sad.

[The_Philster]

So is the "anything can happen" BS. http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/user_pics/11-1148260547.gif if it were BS, Kurt Warner wouldn't have worked out so well for the Rams. I'll bet the Rams fans thought their season was over before it began when Trent Green got hurt.

Nobody is talking about life. We're talking about football. Not being able to discern the difference is what is sad.football...life..doesn't matter..assuming all is lost without any real evidence is sad

[Mr. Cynical]

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/user_pics/11-1148260547.gif if it were BS, Kurt Warner wouldn't have worked out so well for the Rams. I'll bet the Rams fans thought their season was over before it began when Trent Green got hurt.

Dude, what is it with you and the "lies" icon? How exactly am I "lying" when I say something is BS and getting old?


football...life..doesn't matter..assuming all is lost without any real evidence is sad

"football....life...doesn't matter"

I rest my case.

[The_Philster]

it's a lie because BS would be something that is false...anything CAN happen...and you can't dispute that

[Mr. Cynical]

it's a lie because BS would be something that is false...anything CAN happen...and you can't dispute that

:rofl:

:roflmao:

:lol:


That was the most pathetic attempt to back track I have ever read. Admit it, you got called out and won't admit it. I didn't "lie"...I stated MY OPINION that that quote was BS and getting old. I noticed you didnt call out Skooby for saying the same thing. :shakeno:

A lie is when you tell a falsehood, e.g., "hey phil, you said that the earth is flat". Since you never said that, I would be lying by saying you did.

Geesh man...get a grip.

[The_Philster]

:lmao: If it makes you feel good and puff out your chest with pride, you go ahead and think that :coocoo:
You stated a falsehood ..it was pretty obvious

[Mr. Cynical]

:lmao: If it makes you feel good and puff out your chest with pride, you go ahead and think that :coocoo:
You stated a falsehood ..it was pretty obvious

Priceless. Keep it coming.

:roflmao:

[Dr. Lecter]

TD's record as Bills' GM was 0-0.
GW's record as Bills' HC was 0-0.
KG's record as Bills' OC was 0-0.
MM's record as Bills' HC was 0-0.
TC's record as Bills's OC was 0-0.



Nobody is talking about life. We're talking about football. Not being able to discern the difference is what is sad.

And Belicheck at one point had 0-0 record. As did Parcells and Lombardi.

The fact it these new guys might be better than the old guys. Or they might not. Nobody to knows for sure. But assuming they will suck is just as presumptious as assuming they will be great.

[YardRat]

Just for the record...

ODDS TO WIN 2007 SUPER BOWL XLI
AT DOLPHINS STADIUM, MIAMI, FLA.
SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 4, 2007

INDIANAPOLIS COLTS 9-2
NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS 7-1
PITTSBURGH STEELERS 8-1
SAN DIEGO CHARGERS 10-1
DENVER BRONCOS 12-1
CAROLINA PANTHERS 12-1
SEATTLE SEAHAWKS 12-1
KANSAS CITY CHIEFS 18-1
CHICAGO BEARS 20-1
CINCINNATI BENGALS 20-1
DALLAS COWBOYS 20-1
WASHINGTON REDSKINS 20-1
NEW YORK GIANTS 20-1
ATLANTA FALCONS 30-1
PHILADELPHIA EAGLES 30-1
JACKSONVILLE JAGUARS 30-1
MINNESOTA VIKINGS 30-1
TAMPA BAY BUCS 30-1
MIAMI DOLPHINS 30-1
BALTIMORE RAVENS 40-1
OAKLAND RAIDERS 50-1
ARIZONA CARDINALS 60-1
GREEN BAY PACKERS 60-1
ST. LOUIS RAMS 60-1
BUFFALO BILLS 100-1
CLEVELAND BROWNS 100-1
DETROIT LIONS 100-1
NEW YORK JETS 100-1
HOUSTON TEXANS 100-1
TENNESSEE TITANS 100-1
NEW ORLEANS SAINTS 100-1
SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS 200-1

NFL OPENING LINES
REGULAR SEASON WEEK 1
(Home team in caps)
<TABLE cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR><TD>Favorite</TD><TD>Line/Total</TD><TD>Underdog</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>THURSDAY, SEPT. 7 </TD></TR><TR><TD>PITTSBURGH</TD><TD>6 39</TD><TD>Miami </TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>SUNDAY, SEPT. 10 </TD></TR><TR><TD>Seattle</TD><TD>4 / 47.5</TD><TD>DETROIT </TD></TR><TR><TD>Philadelphia</TD><TD>3.5 / 41.5</TD><TD>HOUSTON </TD></TR><TR><TD>TENNESSEE</TD><TD>2.5 / 38.5</TD><TD>N.Y. Jets </TD></TR><TR><TD>CLEVELAND</TD><TD>3 / 41</TD><TD>New Orleans </TD></TR><TR><TD>Denver</TD><TD>3.5 / 47.5</TD><TD>ST. LOUIS </TD></TR><TR><TD>KANSAS CITY</TD><TD>4 / 48</TD><TD>Cincinnati </TD></TR><TR><TD>NEW ENGLAND</TD><TD>8.5 / 42</TD><TD>Buffalo </TD></TR><TR><TD>TAMPA BAY</TD><TD>4 / 34.5</TD><TD>Baltimore </TD></TR><TR><TD>CAROLINA</TD><TD>5.5 / 42.5</TD><TD>Atlanta </TD></TR><TR><TD>Chicago</TD><TD>3 / 33.5</TD><TD>GREEN BAY </TD></TR><TR><TD>ARIZONA</TD><TD>9 / 43</TD><TD>San Francisco </TD></TR><TR><TD>JACKSONVILLE</TD><TD>2.5 / 40.5</TD><TD>Dallas </TD></TR><TR><TD>Indianapolis</TD><TD>4 / 48</TD><TD>N.Y. GIANTS </TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>MONDAY, SEPT. 11 </TD></TR><TR><TD>WASHINGTON</TD><TD>6 / 36.5</TD><TD>Minnesota </TD></TR><TR><TD>San Diego</TD><TD>2.5 / 45</TD><TD>OAKLAND </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[YardRat]

<TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>Wait...here's more...


AFC East
</TD><TD vAlign=bottom align=middle width=50>Division
Champ</TD><TD vAlign=bottom align=middle width=60>AFC
Champ</TD><TD vAlign=bottom align=middle width=60>Superbowl
Champ</TD><TD> </TD><TD width=10> </TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Miami Dolphins</TD><TD align=middle>12-1</TD><TD align=middle>40-1</TD><TD align=middle>80-1</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>N.E. Patriots</TD><TD align=middle>10-17</TD><TD align=middle>73</TD><TD align=middle>7-1</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>New York Jets</TD><TD align=middle>17-5</TD><TD align=middle>12-1</TD><TD align=middle>26-1</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Buffalo Bills</TD><TD align=middle>22-1</TD><TD align=middle>60-1</TD><TD align=middle>100-1</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[shelby]

i love rooting for the underdog. :up:

:D

[lordofgun]

So now we're going by what vegas thinks. Cool.

[YardRat]

i love rooting for the underdog. :up:

:D

So do I. Of course, I usually lose a lot of money that way :D

[YardRat]

So now we're going by what vegas thinks. Cool.

Cheer up...the Bills have a better chance of winning the Super Bowl than you do of winning the lottery or getting struck by lightning.

[Mr. Pink]

The people in Vegas generally know what they're talking about after all, if they eph up, lots of money can go to the wrong place. Plus the oddsmakers that's all they do really.

So what Vegas gauges is generally about right, of course, there is always upsets and teams that come out of nowhere. So, you can sit there and say, well the 99 Rams did it, so can we!

The only debate the "optimists/homers" can adhere to is that there is hope and anything can happen. There is no tangible proof that this team is good, much like there is no proof that the 49ers are a good team. And like I've stated before I'm sure there's plenty of 9ers fans who sit there and say if a-z happens we COULD be a playoff team!

Facts are this team is REBUILDING. Apparently some people fail to recognize this fact and teams that are generally in YEAR ONE of rebuilding aren't very good on the field, at least in the W-L column. So why are some of us being pessimistic when we say this team is not going to be very competitive let alone a playoff team? That's life in the NFL and fact.

You sit there and base this team will be good off miracles and what other franchises have done to become good, guess what that's not realistic expectations of this squad. It's not more realistic to think this team is playoff caliber right now than to think you'll look out in your backyard and see an albatross fly by. Or a Wooly Mammoth to be there staring you down.

Technically either of those two could happen yes, and it would be a "miracle" of science much like the Bills making the playoffs this year would be a "miracle."

Am I less of a fan because I question some of the moves this organization has made? Am I less of a fan because I don't believe we have all the pieces of the puzzle in place? If I don't sit here and think, yeah, we've got a chance at the playoffs...does that make me less of a fan too?

I'll sit around and watch most of the games just like you will. I'll buy some stupid merchandise as well, just like you will. I'll probably even go to a game, just like you will. Guess what, according to Ralph, I'll be just as much as a fan as you. Why? Because my money is just as green and buys just as much stuff.

But the "homers" can sit here and diss all of us "realists" because we don't subscribe to the theory that just because someone know dons our colors they're automatically good and can work out in the NFL. Fact is, most players who suck, will suck regardless of the color of the jersey. Most coaches who suck, will suck regardless of the team they're coaching.

My main question is this, how are you "homers" so much better than any of us realists?

[The_Philster]

There is no tangible proof that this team is good, and there's none that it's not good, either...they haven't played a game yet which is the only thing one can base such an evaluation on.

Am I less of a fan because I question some of the moves this organization has made? Am I less of a fan because I don't believe we have all the pieces of the puzzle in place? If I don't sit here and think, yeah, we've got a chance at the playoffs...does that make me less of a fan too?
The "homers" have the same questions but as has been stated countless times, we don't harp on them non-stop and we actually treat them as questions...and don't make out those questions into forgone conclusions that they won't work out.

[patmoran2006]

i love rooting for the underdog. :up:

:D

With the exception of one person, who would root AGAINST the Bills just for the purpose of 'being right', I dont think there is anyone on here who won't b rooting for the Bills..

The question is some people have lower, or what one may call more "realistic" expecations on how this team is going to be this season.

[KMA]

Paragraph 1 - :clap:

Paragraph 2 - :clap:

Paragraph 3 - Although I also have opinions on some of those mentioned, I still hold on to the hope that...

Jauron will be a more successful coach in his second stint at the helm, as many others (including Belicheck and Levy) have done in the past...

Parrish will develop into a quality reciever...

Price can return to some semblence of the player he was when he left the team...

McGahee and Clements return to their 2004 level of play, at least for this year...

Ops points were:

Jauron will be a more successful coach in his second stint at the helm, as many others (including Belicheck and Levy) have done in the past...

What reason is there to hope that will happen?

Parrish will develop into a quality reciever...

Why? The guy's puny. Which other WRs have done that at his size? Was he a great WR in college?

Price can return to some semblence of the player he was when he left the team...

Price can also return to what he was in all of his other seasons too. When Price had his monster season we were the 3rd passingest team in the league and the 4th from worst rushingest team. Is that what you'd like to see this year? What did it do for us in 2002 with a lot more talent than we have now? In your mind is that a good way to go, so imbalanced towards the passing game? Also, would you rather see Price rack up a ton of yards or see the team play good football?

McGahee and Clements return to their 2004 level of play, at least for this year

What reason is there to think that's going to happen? McGahee ran well only against a lot of easy teams in 2004.

That's what Op is saying. Also, in most peoples minds road losses to the Pats and Fins to start the season are foregone conclusions. What if we lose at home to the Jets in our home opener? What are some fans going to think?

Overall, at what point do fans that always think that we're going to be better than we are actually begin demanding better running of this team instead of always accepting what Wilson says and does and all the stuff that follows off of that just because Wilson's been a good owner?

I've noticed that in these arguments between the homers and realists that there's never any challenging, or there rarely is, of anything that the team does to fix things. Some things can be seen ahead. It isn't exactly a reach to think that because you had one of the worst lines in the league last season and really haven't done anything to fix them that they're not going to be any better.

In my mind good fans call their mismanagement on the carpet and point it out and say we've had enough. Football hasn't always revolved around money, but since it has, the Bills have been cheap in many ways. This year we're spending a lot of money on a guy like Price. What for?

[KMA]

And if this team greatly improves in the next couple of years?

Are you going to come back with your tail between your legs for not even giving Marv and crew a chance?

What if it doesn't?

Are you and the others going to come back and say that you've had enough too?

Because it's already happened. We've been through this with Donahoe, Gilbride, Williams, Mularkey, and you're still here saying the same thing hoping that bad decisions will somehow yield good fruits.

The tree's bad. Poor decisions will always yield bad fruit or no fruit. The difference is that some of us recognize that the tree (Wilson) is bad. He's not a good owner who doesn't do the right things to make his team competitive.

Everything that everyone's saying now to give the team the benefit of the doubt has been said in the recent past but with even more support.

So who are the bigger fans?

The ones that are fed up and want more so that they can see their team post a winning season and not because other team's quarterbacks get injured or because of an easy schedule, or for other reasons that bring the rest of the league down but don't make actually make the Bills a better team?

Or the ones that are still looking at a tree that's done nothing but bear bad fruit hoping that there are going to be a few edible apples on it this year so that we can call the harvest productive?

It all depends upon what each person's perspective is. It seems to me that those being more realistic actually want to win more badly while the others don't seem to care as long as Wilson and whoever the GM are tell them that it's all gonna be OK and that the rest of us should defer to them despite that fact that we have for many seasons only to have our hopes dashed.

Some people just learn more quickly than others. There's a good reason why most magazines have us ranked in the low 20s or worse in preseason polls.

[finsrclowns]

Well you know the old saying, "ignorance is bliss". So no, I'm not blissful. Nothing I can do about that, outside of getting a lobotomy.

If you were less of a realist you'd realize the lobotomy is well worth the shot.:up:

[finsrclowns]

My main question is this, how are you "homers" so much better than any of us realists?

Good question. On balance, I'd say the homers were marginally less annoying.

I'd describe it like this:

Homer visiting a random person at a nursing home:

"Don't give up. Keep doing what the doctors say and you'll be home with your families in no time. Have you considered doing a masters program by mail?"

Realist visiting a random person at a nursing home:

"Have you signed your medical waiver? Because it's getting real close to "pull the plug" time if you know what I mean. From what I can see you'd be better off dead."

[finsrclowns]

What if it doesn't?



My guess would be, if it doesn't, well, then it doesn't. Just MO of course.:rrich:

[finsrclowns]

I'm sure this will make some of you happy since you think I'm pissing in your Wheaties. Just don't come crying to me when you finally realize that those Wheaties were stale and moldy before I got anywhere near them.

I don't care about Wheaties but if you do decide to go can I have dibs on your Zone Bucks? I'd like to be able to change my avatar every 3 minutes or so, just for variety.:lol:

[Mr. Cynical]

What if it doesn't?

Are you and the others going to come back and say that you've had enough too?

Because it's already happened. We've been through this with Donahoe, Gilbride, Williams, Mularkey, and you're still here saying the same thing hoping that bad decisions will somehow yield good fruits.

The tree's bad. Poor decisions will always yield bad fruit or no fruit. The difference is that some of us recognize that the tree (Wilson) is bad. He's not a good owner who doesn't do the right things to make his team competitive.

Everything that everyone's saying now to give the team the benefit of the doubt has been said in the recent past but with even more support.

So who are the bigger fans?

The ones that are fed up and want more so that they can see their team post a winning season and not because other team's quarterbacks get injured or because of an easy schedule, or for other reasons that bring the rest of the league down but don't make actually make the Bills a better team?

Or the ones that are still looking at a tree that's done nothing but bear bad fruit hoping that there are going to be a few edible apples on it this year so that we can call the harvest productive?

It all depends upon what each person's perspective is. It seems to me that those being more realistic actually want to win more badly while the others don't seem to care as long as Wilson and whoever the GM are tell them that it's all gonna be OK and that the rest of us should defer to them despite that fact that we have for many seasons only to have our hopes dashed.

Some people just learn more quickly than others. There's a good reason why most magazines have us ranked in the low 20s or worse in preseason polls.

:10:

Perfect post.

[justasportsfan]

Realists cannot accept "benefit of a doubt", "wait and see" "possibilities". They use the last few years as an example even though the staff and team are different. :coocoo:

[Mitchy moo]

Realists cannot accept "benefit of a doubt", "wait and see" "possibilities". They use the last few years as an example even though the staff and team are different. :coocoo:

We are a different team this year with the new coaching, expect a different result.

[BillsFever21]

so are you saying we'll never turn it around? Because if that's not what you're saying...are we supposed to come to you and ask when it's ok to look forward to football?

Personally, I'm not sure if this is an upgrade or not...but people whined because we kept hiring unexperienced head coaches...we got one with experience this time...a former Coach of the Year even...and they're still whining...sounds to me like some will never be happy

Eventually we will. But to just say it every year out of homerness isn't the way to do it.

Big deal if we have an experienced coach this time. Marty Morinweg is an experienced coach. So is Rich Kotite. Just because they are experienced doesn't mean their good.

So he had one winning season out of 5. Big deal. Mularkey had a winning season too. Sometimes the breaks fall your way. They didn't beat many good teams that year either.

I hope he's good and the Bills make the playoffs. I just don't think they have the right pieces at the moment. People like you take it personal if we don't think they're any good. Get some more hobbies.

[The_Philster]

Eventually we will. But to just say it every year out of homerness isn't the way to do it.
totally stupid statement...you can't resist throwing out that homer statement. Question still stands...do we all have to check with you before we can start to try to get excited about Bills football? :rolleyes:



People like you take it personal if we don't think they're any good. Get some more hobbies.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->I guess you didn't read LOG's thread about how being pessimists is the easy way out. As far as hobbies, I'm fine with what I have. I'm guessing your hobby is negativity and wanting to make others feel negative as well...seems to me my hobbies are a lot more constructive

[Captain gameboy]

Op is a curmudgeon.

Kids. Traffic. Bills. Anything.
It doesn't matter.

Very little can be done for a curmudgeon.

[BillsFever21]

totally stupid statement...you can't resist throwing out that homer statement. Question still stands...do we all have to check with you before we can start to try to get excited about Bills football? :rolleyes:


I guess you didn't read LOG's thread about how being pessimists is the easy way out. As far as hobbies, I'm fine with what I have. I'm guessing your hobby is negativity and wanting to make others feel negative as well...seems to me my hobbies are a lot more constructive

Don't you have a mind of your own? Are you that thin skinned that you take what others say about the Bills that personal that it gets you down?

Taking a look at the team and realizing we're not gonna be very good this year isn't being negative. It's taking the team for what it's worth.

I'm sorry, but I can't just look at a team that isn't very good and just try and make myself believe they're better then they are every year so I can feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

If you read Texans fans all pumped up about how they think they have a chance for the playoffs every year what would you think of it? I know what you would think. You would think the same as the rest of you club would and would laugh about it.

Shouldn't all these guys be optimistic and never be negative about their team? That's what you guys are always complaining about.

If our opinion of what we think the Bills are capable of doing this year gets you down as much as it does then I suggest you not read our posts. Either that or seek a therapist. It would be cheaper just not to read the posts though.

It's not like I think every player or every part of the team sucks. There are players I think are very good players and I like. If there are people like that then yes they are just a negative person. As a whole though I don't believe this team is gonna see the postseason.

Six years ago I thought they were good enough to make them. As it stands now I don't think they are. Opinions change based on what you have. Sorry you can't handle the truth and it makes you upset. Seek help if the opinions of certain people about the Bills affect you that way. That's the only thing I can suggest.

[DraftBoy]

and there's none that it's not good, either...they haven't played a game yet which is the only thing one can base such an evaluation on.


Im sorry but this point makes no sense, your counter to them saying that they dont see any proof to show that the team is good, is to use your same point and say there is no proof its any good? Did you watch this team last season? Are you going to realistically tell me 10-12 new faces many of them not worthy of starting on many other NFL teams are gonna make us a playoff team come on now.

Thats like me calling my little brother an idiot, and he saying nuh-uh, your the idiot.

Atleast make it a logical argument with points like Evans really emerged at the end of last season and he looked much better than Moulds for the majority of the year, the OL jelled and there havent been many changes aside from good one, including adding an amazing vet in Tutan Reyes who will likely be the leader on the line. We have enough WR competition that somebody is likely to emerge as a quality number 2 and if they dont then even better, bc atleast we know what we got. We got a new HC who is willing to try new things, a new OC who we know, can run an offense, and a new DC with some new ideas we aint seen yet.

All of those are better arguments then "well we have no proof, so you have no proof!"

[R. Rich]

I miss Bryan already. Kinda.

[The_Philster]

Im sorry but this point makes no sense, your counter to them saying that they dont see any proof to show that the team is good, is to use your same point and say there is no proof its any good? Did you watch this team last season? Are you going to realistically tell me 10-12 new faces many of them not worthy of starting on many other NFL teams are gonna make us a playoff team come on now. I challenge you to find me one post where I seriously said we were a playoff team


Atleast make it a logical argument with points like Evans really emerged at the end of last season and he looked much better than Moulds for the majority of the year, the OL jelled and there havent been many changes aside from good one, including adding an amazing vet in Tutan Reyes who will likely be the leader on the line. We have enough WR competition that somebody is likely to emerge as a quality number 2 and if they dont then even better, bc atleast we know what we got. We got a new HC who is willing to try new things, a new OC who we know, can run an offense, and a new DC with some new ideas we aint seen yet.

All of those are better arguments then "well we have no proof, so you have no proof!"I answered some of that stuff in another thread this morning

[The_Philster]

Don't you have a mind of your own? Are you that thin skinned that you take what others say about the Bills that personal that it gets you down?stupidity


Taking a look at the team and realizing we're not gonna be very good this year isn't being negative. It's taking the team for what it's worth.Funny...most of us don't have very high expectations for the 2006 Bills yet because we're not proclaiming the Bills are no more in a couple of years, we're accused of being homers. Do yourself a favor...stop and read what a person actually has to say before you comment. I've repeatedly brought up questions so stop with the false accusations


If you read Texans fans all pumped up about how they think they have a chance for the playoffs every year what would you think of it? I know what you would think. http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/user_pics/11-1148260547.gif
You would think the same as the rest of you club would and would laugh about it.

Shouldn't all these guys be optimistic and never be negative about their team? That's what you guys are always complaining about.In all reality, almost every team has a shot every year...it's the nature of the league since the salary cap and free agency came into being. That being said you know nothing because I'm not gonna laugh at someone having hopes for their team because you just don't know what's going to happen each year..especially since I don't have the time to delve as deeply into the other 31 teams as I do my own.


If our opinion of what we think the Bills are capable of doing this year gets you down as much as it does then I suggest you not read our posts.well then I guess we know you're not in any state on mental trouble because you only read part of the posts that you comment on
Either that or seek a therapist. It would be cheaper just not to read the posts though.

It's not like I think every player or every part of the team sucks. There are players I think are very good players and I like. If there are people like that then yes they are just a negative person. As a whole though I don't believe this team is gonna see the postseason.

Six years ago I thought they were good enough to make them. As it stands now I don't think they are. Opinions change based on what you have. Sorry you can't handle the truth and it makes you upset. Seek help if the opinions of certain people about the Bills affect you that way. That's the only thing I can suggest.Matt...your opinions dion't affect me in the least...well, that's not exactly true. They're tiring because all ii is is negativity non-stop. Stop making this into a personal thing and accusing me of mental problems because I disagree with you. That's a borderline personal attack

[R. Rich]

I challenge you to find me one post where I seriously said anything relevant.

You win that one.

[BillsFever21]

stupidity

Funny...most of us don't have very high expectations for the 2006 Bills yet because we're not proclaiming the Bills are no more in a couple of years, we're accused of being homers. Do yourself a favor...stop and read what a person actually has to say before you comment. I've repeatedly brought up questions so stop with the false accusations

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/user_pics/11-1148260547.gifIn all reality, almost every team has a shot every year...it's the nature of the league since the salary cap and free agency came into being. That being said you know nothing because I'm not gonna laugh at someone having hopes for their team because you just don't know what's going to happen each year..especially since I don't have the time to delve as deeply into the other 31 teams as I do my own.

well then I guess we know you're not in any state on mental trouble because you only read part of the posts that you comment onMatt...your opinions dion't affect me in the least...well, that's not exactly true. They're tiring because all ii is is negativity non-stop. Stop making this into a personal thing and accusing me of mental problems because I disagree with you. That's a borderline personal attack

So when the same people laugh about how bad the Jets suck they're not using the same logic.

Or when they laughed when Moulds left Buffalo because he wanted to be on a winning team and joined the Texans.

We have tried to use logic. Some would just rather go by false hope and the same rules don't apply to the other teams.

I was never really in these debates. I would post how I felt and that I didn't think we were gonna be a very good team. It's people like you who were calling me out about my opinion is when I elaborated more on the situation.

You say that some of us can't handle differences in opinions but when our opinion differ from yours you call us pessimistic.

I wasn't calling anybody out and just station my opinion. You were the one stating to me how you felt about it and then sending me negs whining about it.

This is just a message board. You don't need to take everything so personal. It's just a message board and a sport. It's not everything in our life. Well mine at least.

[The_Philster]

So when the same people laugh about how bad the Jets suck they're not using the same logic.We say the Jets suck all the time because it's trash talk with a division rival


Or when they laughed when Moulds left Buffalo because he wanted to be on a winning team and joined the Texans.Personally, my first emotion about that was anger. As far as the Texans, if they can protect Carr for a change, they'll improve a lot.


We have tried to use logic. Some would just rather go by false hope and the same rules don't apply to the other teams.Logic also dictates you learn from history...not just the history that supports your views but all of it. Teams have turned things around rapidly even when people thought they would suck in the offseason...doesn't mean the Bills will...but it also means that it's possible. I mean, who actually thought the Giants would be in the Super Bowl a few years back...or the Rams for that matter? The Rams were bottom feeders for years.
You say that some of us can't handle differences in opinions but when our opinion differ from yours you call us pessimistic.when the vast majority of your posts are about negativity, what do you expect?


I wasn't calling anybody out and just station my opinion. You were the one stating to me how you felt about it and then sending me negs whining about it.I negged you because you got personal...there's no call for that


This is just a message board. You don't need to take everything so personal. It's just a message board and a sport. It's not everything in our life. Well mine at least.Not mine either...I keep plenty busy with other things that I find much more valuable...but I do like talking football as well from time to time.

[LtBillsFan66]

You people need to learn to attack the post, not the poster.

[The_Philster]

You people need to learn to attack the post, not the poster.
ok..am I the only one simply blown away that was BF1 making that statement? :huh:

[LtBillsFan66]

I don't rely on immature personal attacks.

[The_Philster]

I don't rely on immature personal attacks.
:shout: Mrs BF1 has BF1's password, everybody!!

[LtBillsFan66]

:shout: Mrs BF1 has BF1's password, everybody!!
Don't be childish, Philip.

[KMA]

and you refuse to believe they're trying to get better?

First of all, how much room is there to get worse? There's some, but not a lot.

Second of all, if the Bills do get worse then everyone taking this "let's see what happens first" approach are going to appear ignorant.

It's really not tough to take a look at this team, its players and coaches, and see that it's not going to be good and maybe even worse than last season but probably not better. Every year the publications overrate us. This year if they've overrated us again we're in a ton of trouble.

There are things to look at to draw some realistic conclusions as to where this team will be this season. People can look at them or ignore them. People waiting to see what happens are pretty much ignoring them.

[KMA]

and you refuse to believe they're trying to get better?

Then everyone will be talking about how the same people need a few more seasons before we can really tell.