Losman looking more like the starter...

[HHURRICANE]

I was just listening to NFL on Sirrius and one of the hosts was saying he was tied into the Bills and that Losman was very strong in the minis. Nall was terrible and Holcomb was where they thought he'd be. They were saying that the big issue will be wether JP has the maturity to start this year. Jauron has not made a decision yet. They also said that Fairchild has some say on the QB position!! Good news for JP.

[Mr. Miyagi]

JP! JP! JP!

[patmoran2006]

JP is the best fit for a Fairchild-led offense from what I've seen.
He's gonna have to prove to me though he's not totally ******ed on the field I dont care how great his "tools" are.

I'm not going to discount Nall just yet, I have a funny feeling about him, which is pretty pathetic.

As long as Holcomb aint starting, which dont be shocked if he is, UNFORTUNATELY

[HHURRICANE]

JP is the best fit for a Fairchild-led offense from what I've seen.
He's gonna have to prove to me though he's not totally ******ed on the field I dont care how great his "tools" are.

I'm not going to discount Nall just yet, I have a funny feeling about him, which is pretty pathetic.

As long as Holcomb aint starting, which dont be shocked if he is, UNFORTUNATELY

I would not discount Holcomb as the starter. They still think he's got a shot. They weren't overly surprised by Nall's lack luster performance so far.

I sit down here every year in Atlanta and watch Schaub out play Vick in the preseason and watch Vick start. Let's hope that this doesn't happen to JP.

[jamze132]

I think that Losman already has the job and it's his to lose. Obviously of the threee, he has the most talent and upside. The only way to prove right or wrong is to play him and that is what they intend to do.

[TacklingDummy]

Let the season start. Im tired of JP Homers.

[patmoran2006]

I would not discount Holcomb as the starter. They still think he's got a shot. They weren't overly surprised by Nall's lack luster performance so far.

I sit down here every year in Atlanta and watch Schaub out play Vick in the preseason and watch Vick start. Let's hope that this doesn't happen to JP.

I dont discount Holcomb as the starter at all. I"ve predicted more than once recently when the preseason is done he's going to be the starter in week one.

[jamze132]

I dont discount Holcomb as the starter at all. I"ve predicted more than once recently when the preseason is done he's going to be the starter in week one.
I doubt it.

[HHURRICANE]

Let the season start. Im tired of JP Homers.

I've made a point of not replying to your posts but...

If JP isn't the starter who is? Do you really think that we will win that many more games with Holcomb?!

If so, how many. Unless you can tell me that Holcomb can win us 10 games than starting him is a mute point. Why not take our lumps in a non playoff year and see if JP can play the game?!

If not we will be having the same stupid conversation next year.

[Philagape]

Homers should want JP if they want any hope of more than six or seven wins.

[Mitchy moo]

Homers should want JP if they want any hope of more than six or seven wins.

It will be a little better than you planned.

[TacklingDummy]

If JP isn't the starter who is? Do you really think that we will win that many more games with Holcomb?!

.

I've already said JP should be starter. If he wins the job in camp.

Im just tired of the QB talk. I want the season to start. It's the first step to getting Brady Quinn.

[patmoran2006]

You see this is what drives me crazy and is the difference between a Bills fan and a stupid HOMER..

You people PREACH about a new era in Bills football and about competition at every spot. But God forbid someone doesnt like JP Losman and would rather see Nall or gasp, Holcomb win the job- You jump all over them.

SO its supposed to be open and fair competition at EVERY spot in training camp EXCEPT for quarterback? Losman is supposed to be handed the starting job because he's younger, or a high draft pick, or cause he got screwed over in some minds last year? Horse****. IF JP Losman is the better QB in training camp, then he DESERVES to start.. If he's not, then he doesnt too.

Everyone talks about Holcomb being a "Journeyman" and he is what he is.........Fine, if thats the case. Then Josh Reed shouldnt get a chance to start either. He had four years to prove he didnt suck and he couldnt get the job done. Why does he get a chance to shine under a new regime? Why should Ryan Denney even get a chance to win a starting job or contribute? He's done little for four years now, why should he get a chance to show what he can do under a new regime?

Being a Bills fan is one thing, being a Homer is one thing.. Being so ONE-SIDED makes you look stupid and have Joe Ferguson-like tunnel vision.
It's a competition, let the BEST and most deserving man win.

[Jan Reimers]

I was just listening to NFL on Sirrius and one of the hosts was saying he was tied into the Bills and that Losman was very strong in the minis. Nall was terrible and Holcomb was where they thought he'd be. They were saying that the big issue will be wether JP has the maturity to start this year. Jauron has not made a decision yet. They also said that Fairchild has some say on the QB position!! Good news for JP.
I have to wonder how JP gets that maturity - I would think that means the ability to read and react, make split second decisions, and have the poise and presence of mind to lead this team, even when things are not going well - by sitting on the bench.

[Billsouth]

can anyone say MATT LEINART????

[ronbaskin]

This is the season to find out whether Losman can handle the job. No pressure to make the playoffs--a foolish promise which caused MM and TD to panic last season--and no Moulds and Milloy to push him under the bus. However, the Bills must commit to the eventual starter for the entire season. It's difficult to be optimistic when the team has a three-way competition for the most important spot on the roster. That tells me they're not thrilled with any of them.

[Goobylal]

Matt Leinart. Weak-armed Hollywood boy who will struggle without the best players around him.

[patmoran2006]

Matt Leinart. Weak-armed Hollywood boy who will struggle without the best players around him.
YOur a million percent WRONG, Leinart is going to be a Pro Bowl QB and probably win a couple of MVP's in this league.

That being said, He wouldnt have been a good fit in Buffalo in most people's eyes.

[Philagape]

Losman is supposed to be handed the starting job because he's younger, or a high draft pick, or cause he got screwed over in some minds last year? Horse****.

If no one else is clearly better, yes. The thing is, this debate is always framed in the terms of who does better. Well what if no one candidate stands out? That's a strong possibility. Each QB has shortcomings; the difference is, Holcomb's can't be fixed. You can't add 30 yards to his passes or take a second off his 40.


Then Josh Reed shouldnt get a chance to start either. He had four years to prove he didnt suck and he couldnt get the job done. Why does he get a chance to shine under a new regime? Why should Ryan Denney even get a chance to win a starting job or contribute? He's done little for four years now, why should he get a chance to show what he can do under a new regime?

Agreed :D

Regime, schmegime.

[patmoran2006]

can anyone say MATT LEINART????

I only groan your post out of envy.. These Homers rib on his "arm strength" now.. However, if we drafted him they'd call him the next Montana.

[Michael82]

Go JP! I know you can do it. The job is yours for the taking. :up:

[patmoran2006]

I only groan your post out of envy.. These Homers rib on his "arm strength" now.. However, if we drafted him they'd call him the next Montana.
Mikey.
Is this statement INACCURATE?

[Goobylal]

Leinart's got more going against him than for him. I'll say that Arizona is the best place for him, given their WR's and RB (currently, since the Edge is getting-up there), but the O-line isn't great and the defense is bad.

[Michael82]

Mikey.
Is this statement INACCURATE?
yeah it is. I have never liked Leinart and am glad we didnt waste a pick on him when we already have our QB of the future in JP.

[HHURRICANE]

Being a Bills fan is one thing, being a Homer is one thing.. Being so ONE-SIDED makes you look stupid and have Joe Ferguson-like tunnel vision.
It's a competition, let the BEST and most deserving man win.


Chill. If Holcomb looks that much better in camp he will win the job. I think most people feel that if it's close you give it to JP because he should only get better and helps us win in the future. It's not like Holcomb has a huge upside. You pretty much know what you got: a good backup.

[Jan Reimers]

I only groan your post out of envy.. These Homers rib on his "arm strength" now.. However, if we drafted him they'd call him the next Montana.
Losman has more physical tools than Leinart. We'll have to see about the mental side.

[justasportsfan]

Mikey.
Is this statement INACCURATE?
yes it is. Try going to the other bills mb and you'll realize how much of a pessimist we homers are.

[im4bflo]

Musical QB's didn't work last year(duh!)
Whoever wins the job in camp(JP), I hope they've learned to stick with him, this would be a perfect year to start, let him have his up's and down's, but let him grow finally. Then there will be no doubt he's either the man or not, I billieve he is! And the 'homer' in me knows 'realistically' enough, we may not be in the Superbowl this year... (but not impossible), so let JP play man!!!!
I like Holcomb off the bench, like AVP, he's a great 2nd stringer.
AVP got a shot, and Holcomb got a shot, and we know that's all they've got.
Our only chance of getting better, is with JP, how unrealistic is that?
JPD:up:

[TacklingDummy]

yeah it is. I have never liked Leinart and am glad we didnt waste a pick on him when we already have our QB of the future in JP.

Then the future doesn't look so bright. Brady Quinn is the Bills QB of the future.

[Drive 4 Five]

Hey I am riding coach on the J.P. Losman bandwagon but I am no homer. If J.P. doesn't win the job then he doesn't deserve to start. End of discussion. What is the worst case scenario here? That he has to sit some more? So be it. QB's like Steve McNair have proved that sitting for a few years is not necessarily the worst thing.

Unless of course we keep changing coaching staffs like every three years which has been the trend here lately. What I do no not want to see is us going into camp without a clear number three. By now these coaches should have an idea who has the edge. How will any QB benefit from having to share snaps with two other guys?

[Drive 4 Five]

I don't know why in the heck I ever took Tackling Dummy off of my ignore list but I am going to fix that right now.

[TacklingDummy]

I don't know why in the heck I ever took Tackling Dummy off of my ignore list but I am going to fix that right now.

Go for it homer.

[CAbills]

Sounds like the same thing Chris Brown was reporting...Nall was bad the entire way but came on pretty strong the last week is what the reports I have heard said.

[Goobylal]

Sounds like the same thing Chris Brown was reporting...Nall was bad the entire way but came on pretty strong the last week is what the reports I have heard said.
Brown made it sound like he was better than the other 2, but clarified it to say that Nall was looking as good as the other 2 did, and in Holcomb's case in PAST OTA's. Nall still has to show a lot more consistency.

[Meathead]

jp showed steady improvement over the course of his starts and in the last few showed real playmaking promise and developing poise even as he and the team flamed out on a couple of ocassions

thats not at all unusual for a first time starter and with the overall pattern definitely upwards hes going to get a very long look to start week 1

given everything they have invested in him the logical thing is to give him the job even if hes just close to what holcomb can do. and given how solid holcomb is i would be thrilled to have jp start the season "almost" as good as holcomb. its probably only upwards from there

the only reason that might not happen is due to marvs known penchant for playing veterans. perhaps they may want to try to get the solid play from the veteran on the road to start the season and work jp in at home somtime later. cant say id have much of a problem with that strategy right now

still i think its going to be jp

[Goobylal]

jp showed steady improvement over the course of his starts and in the last few showed real playmaking promise and developing poise even as he and the team flamed out on a couple of ocassions

thats not at all unusual for a first time starter and with the overall pattern definitely upwards hes going to get a very long look to start week 1

given everything they have invested in him the logical thing is to give him the job even if hes just close to what holcomb can do. and given how solid holcomb is i would be thrilled to have jp start the season "almost" as good as holcomb. its probably only upwards from there

the only reason that might not happen is due to marvs known penchant for playing veterans. perhaps they may want to try to get the solid play from the veteran on the road to start the season and work jp in at home somtime later. cant say id have much of a problem with that strategy right now

still i think its going to be jp
Yeah JP looked good DESPITE a crap O-line, crap defense, and players having quit by midseason. The entire team should be better and having gotten rid of the negative lockerroom influences, we should be pleasantly surprised.

[Kerr]

jp all the way. nall sucks!

[billsburgh]

Let the season start. Im tired of JP Homers.
I'm tired of JP Haters too.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

I have to wonder how JP gets that maturity - I would think that means the ability to read and react, make split second decisions, and have the poise and presence of mind to lead this team, even when things are not going well - by sitting on the bench.

Sometimes when coaches talk about "maturity" they simply mean maturity. As in not acting silly around others the way some young guys do and being able to interact with older, more life-seasoned, sometimes married guys in such a way that they are willing to take a younger guy seriously even though he is younger than they are. It's okay to be a guy who can joke around and have fun with the rest of the team in the lockerroom or away from the game, but a QB is expected to be and has to show the ability to be a leader--a guy that the rest of the team can turn to and believe in when everything seems to be falling apart during a game, a guy who can inspire his teammates, someone that the other guys respect and want to follow, a guy who can get away with kicking one or more of his teammates in the butt when they are screwing up and have them respect him for doing that to them rather than resent it. You can't be a "class clown" type or a "it's all about me" guy or someone who is perceived as a "party guy" and do that.

Now that comes naturally to some guys, but some others have to grow into that simply by getting older and growing up. Some guys are only able to get there by getting knocked on their butts a few times and not only learning how to deal with that, but how to avoid it. And, it takes some guys longer to get there than it does others.

While I have found absolutely nothing wrong in anything that I have heard JP Losman say or read that he has said or with the way that he has approached trying to learn how to be a starting NFL QB since the Bills drafted him, for some reason it seems that JP has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way--going back to college, if you give any credence to M.Moore's conmments about JP, and even in the evaluations of some scouts before he was drafted. The word on JP all along has been that, while he has all of the talent that you could want in a QB, he was immature and needed time to not only develop, but to grow up and mature. While a lot of Bills fans have assumed that this meant "as a QB", there have been plenty of indications in the comments that have been made about him publicly that, at least for some people associated with the team, this has also meant "as a person".

Obviously, JP got off on the wrong foot with at least some of his older teammates when he got to Buffalo and certainly going into last season. While several articles have mentioned that JP seems to have matured considerably since last season, it is not at all unreasonable to question whether this has been enough to overcome the bad impressions that he made on those teammates and have the whole group accept him as a leader.

I know that I am not close enough to the situation to be able to answer that question and I don't think that anyone who is not working for the team and in close contact with the players on a regular basis has enough information to do so with any degree of accuracy. Still, it is virtually certain that that is something that M.Levy, D.Jauron, Fairchild and the other coaches must be closely monitoring at this point, especially given all of the negative reports that it was reported that they got about JP when they were hired.

As I see it, this is going to be a critical factor in how they handle the Bills' QB situation over the course of this coming season--perhaps even more critical than how well JP is developing as a player in terms of knowing his reads, making accurate throws, etc. While JP has all of the physical talent that he needs to be a star in the NFL and he was intelligent enough to get a degree in a major that was certainly more intellectually challenging than most athletes major in, in order for him to become a successful NFL QB, he must be able to be a leader that his teammates respect and will follow. Can he do that? Has he reached that point yet? Or, does he simply need more time and to perhaps face some more adversity in his career to grow up, mature and reach that point? That's a judgement call that can only be made by people who know what signs to look for and are able to observe JP and the team interacting on a daily basis.

[jamze132]

I only groan your post out of envy.. These Homers rib on his "arm strength" now.. However, if we drafted him they'd call him the next Montana.
Sorry, I will never call him the next Montana and I actually had a sign of relief when the braintrust passed Leinart. I didn't want this guy to be anywhere near Buffalo. And I think the only reason he will make the Pro Bowl will be the same reason Vick makes the Pro Bowl. There will be many QBs in the NFC with better numbers than both of them who will be snubbed because they aren't a marketer's dream.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

jp showed steady improvement over the course of his starts and in the last few showed real playmaking promise and developing poise even as he and the team flamed out on a couple of ocassions

thats not at all unusual for a first time starter and with the overall pattern definitely upwards hes going to get a very long look to start week 1

given everything they have invested in him the logical thing is to give him the job even if hes just close to what holcomb can do. and given how solid holcomb is i would be thrilled to have jp start the season "almost" as good as holcomb. its probably only upwards from there

the only reason that might not happen is due to marvs known penchant for playing veterans. perhaps they may want to try to get the solid play from the veteran on the road to start the season and work jp in at home somtime later. cant say id have much of a problem with that strategy right now

still i think its going to be jp

I have previously stated that I would not be surprised to see the Bills start Holcomb early on in the season and then bring JP in to take over (ostensibly to give the team a spark) after a couple of games (as soon as KH screws up enough to give them a reason to relieve him) for precisely the reason that you stated in the part that I have highlighted.

I know a lot of Bills fans would be very upset if the team plays "musical chairs" with its QBs this season, feeling that this would seriously ****** or ruin any chance of JP Losman developing into a quality NFL starting QB. But, I was struck by something that was posted in a previous thread about the number of starts that some of the great QBs of recent times had in their first 2-3 years in the league: several of them, including J. Elway and B.Favre did not start every game even during their second year, but still went on to be great NFL QBs. Obviously, those QBs were not hurt by not getting to start every game during the season following the first season when they started some games--and, indeed, they may have been helped by the fact that they did not do so.

Even though he got into a couple of games in a mop-up role as a rookie after his injury, if you consider JP Losman's rookie season as having been lost and his development ******ed by that injury, one can look at last season as being comparable to those other quarterbacks' first season (for example, Eli Manning got only 8 starts his rookie season and struggled as badly or worse than JP did last season). If the coaches decide to look at JP's development that way, they may well feel that he would not be any more irrepairably harmed by sitting out a couple of games this season than those other QBs were. And, if so, they may choose to play a bit of "musical chairs" at the QB position this season, spotting JP into situations where they may feel that he can be successful and benching him at times to avoid putting him into situations that they feel he might not be able to handle or where he would struggle.

Because this is actually Losman's third season and not his second, obviously the coaches are going to be looking to see if he has and will continue to improve to the point where he is contributing to the team in a positive manner. This does not necessarily mean that they will be expecting him to show that he can start every game and handle every situation. In my previous post in this thread I mentioned that IMHO they will be looking very closely to see if JP is showing more maturity as a person and developing as a leader after what they heard about him when they were hired. They may see substantial progress in this area and in other more obvious areas, like his decision-making, accuracy and how well he reads defenses, etc.,--enough to conclude that he can be the QB of the future that we have all been hoping and expecting him to become--but that he is not quite there yet and is not yet ready to start every game of this season. They may conclude that he would be better served by building up his confidence and the confidence of his teammates in him by starting him primarily in games against teams that they feel he can be successful against.

Contrary to popular opinion, there is no set way to successfully develop a starting NFL QB: not every great QB started every game his rookie year or even his second year and some not even in their third season in the league. There have been great QBs, winning QBs, who sat on the bench for three years before getting a start and others who struggled mightily until one day everything suddenly came together. Levy and Jauron know this. And, while they may have a particular way that they would like to handle a young, developing QB, there is no guarantee that they will or feel that they can follow that particular method with the players that they have on the team now.

Personally, I don't know how the Bills are going to decide to handle their QB situation this season. Since the team has had a lot of turnover in personnel and the team appears to be a "work in progress", they may choose to take advantage of that to experiment with what they feel will give them the best results at the position or for the overall team. While I would like to see JP get the starting nod right from the beginning and hope that he will be successful this season, I am prepared to wait and see what they decide to do. I have a feeling that they have been pleasantly surprised by what they have seen of JP and may think that he could be their man, but are looking to see certain things from him during the course of this season before concluding whether he is or is not.

[BFLOBILLSBURGH]

It is all going to be based on their play the first two preseason games.

[Jan Reimers]

It is all going to be based on their play the first two preseason games.
If that's the case, I just hope it's not the consistent - consistently mediocre, that is - Holcomb. If he's our starter, I will have to join the "realists" in predicting not only a bad season, but an uninspiring one as well.

[jamze132]

Contrary to popular opinion, there is no set way to successfully develop a starting NFL QB: not every great QB started every game his rookie year or even his second year and some not even in their third season in the league. There have been great QBs, winning QBs, who sat on the bench for three years before getting a start and others who struggled mightily until one day everything suddenly came together. Levy and Jauron know this. And, while they may have a particular way that they would like to handle a young, developing QB, there is no guarantee that they will or feel that they can follow that particular method with the players that they have on the team now.

Exactly. So they might as well play him and see what they have. I think they will be impressed if they stick with throughout the season. Not to mention the confidence and experience he would gain from week to week.

[Jan Reimers]

I wouldn't mind the open competition, "let the best man win" thing if we had a 1st rounder with unlimited physical ability battling a good, proven NFL starting QB.

But we have a 1st rounder with unlimited physical ability battling two career backups. Both backups have more time in the NFL and therefore may be more consistent, or better able to read defenses - at this point - than JP.

The only way to see if all that physical ability will manifest itself into success on the field is to put Losman on the field. We pretty much know what Holcomb is going to give us over an entire season, and I would think we may have seen enough of Nall to know he is not the long term answer, either.