Interesting Read

[Devin]

I didnt write it, just posting it. I dont believe this columnist is a Bills fan btw.



5. Joey Harrington is going to beat out Daunte Culpepper by midseason.
I've never been a Daunte fan. Never. I was irate when the Vikings drafted him just months after Jeff George had a great season. But it's deeper than my allegiance to George.
Daunte is not a student of the game. He doesn't read defenses. He's going to get exposed in Miami because his mobility is gone and he's going to be forced to stand in the pocket and make reads. It won't be pretty.


http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=whitlock/060720

[gil]

I'd like to believe this whole thing, but I think Daunte will have a good - but not remotely "great" season -

it's also tough to trust the observational powers of the man who also wrote this in that article:

1. The Baltimore Ravens are my pick to win the Super Bowl.
I love the acquisitions of veteran Trevor Pryce and rookie Haloti Ngata for Baltimore's defensive line. Price and Ngata should make Ray Lewis unstoppable again. Steve McNair solves Baltimore's QB dilemma. Plus, I recently read John Feinstein's book about the Ravens, "Next Man Up," and the book made me like and respect Brian Billick.

[Devin]

Us not being experts really at any level of NFL football, in fact the majority of us being downright irritating with the amount of knowledge we THINK we have.....what about his statement do you believe to be not accurate?

[!Papacrunk!]

It seems like my race card is getting worn out today (in regards to a recent reply of mine in another thread.) With that said, my reply: I've discussed this Page2 blurb on a Vikes board, and others seemed to agree that the guy who wrote that may be going a bit overboard that also seems like he's accentuating a couple of stereotypes that have plagued black QBs over the years: "not a student of the game, isn't smart enough to read defenses." Recent examples of that (from the top of my head, would be Daunte, Steve McNair, and McNabb, just to name a few--players that have been knocked for the above stereotypes. Don't get me wrong, I hate it when the race card is used so often to the point it's abused, but sometimes, the case may be justified. Here's an article that is not a reaction to that Page2 blurb, but it talks about something similar to the Daunte/racial situation: http://www.kstp.com/article/stories/s14868.html

[gil]

Us not being experts really at any level of NFL football, in fact the majority of us being downright irritating with the amount of knowledge we THINK we have.....what about his statement do you believe to be not accurate?

I make no claims to have extensive knowledge of the inner workings of the QB position, or most others, but I did see the guy play quite a bit in the past and I find it hard to believe his skills have diminished that far.

I certainly think the columnist makes a very good point about the mobility issue and that potentially being a big factor in his play, but I guess it's just more of a feeling that he'll be ok - not any in-depth perspective.

That being said - I certainly wouldn't mind if everything he said comes to fruition.

[Devin]

It seems like my race card is getting worn out today (in regards to a recent reply of mine in another thread.) With that said, my reply: I've discussed this Page2 blurb on a Vikes board, and others seemed to agree that the guy who wrote that may be going a bit overboard that also seems like he's accentuating a couple of stereotypes that have plagued black QBs over the years: "not a student of the game, isn't smart enough to read defenses." Recent examples of that (from the top of my head, would be Daunte, Steve McNair, and McNabb, just to name a few--players that have been knocked for the above stereotypes. Don't get me wrong, I hate it when the race card is used so often to the point it's abused, but sometimes, the case may be justified. Here's an article that is not a reaction to that Page2 blurb, but it talks about something similar to the Daunte/racial situation: http://www.kstp.com/article/stories/s14868.html

I must not have gotten that, I dont believe race to be an issue. I think quite simply the QB position, perhaps more than any position on the field requires a certain level of intelligence. Im not in anyway implying Daunte to be ignorant, in fact I thought this to be a good pickup for the Fins. I am moreso asking for (gasp) football debate. Insults/teams aside basically the question is prove this guy wrong.......what makes anyone think that Culpeper in his new setting is going to thrive.

[gil]

It seems like my race card is getting worn out today (in regards to a recent reply of mine in another thread.) With that said, my reply: I've discussed this Page2 blurb on a Vikes board, and others seemed to agree that the guy who wrote that may be going a bit overboard that also seems like he's accentuating a couple of stereotypes that have plagued black QBs over the years: "not a student of the game, isn't smart enough to read defenses." Recent examples of that (from the top of my head, would be Daunte, Steve McNair, and McNabb, just to name a few--players that have been knocked for the above stereotypes. Don't get me wrong, I hate it when the race card is used so often to the point it's abused, but sometimes, the case may be justified. Here's an article that is not a reaction to that Page2 blurb, but it talks about something similar to the Daunte/racial situation: http://www.kstp.com/article/stories/s14868.html

well, he did go on in that article to say that McNair 'solves Baltimore's QB dilemma', so I'm not sure this guy is caught up in the stereotype (but I agree that there are definitely people who still are), and at least he just comes out and says he's never been a fan of the guy anyway.

[OpIv37]

It seems like my race card is getting worn out today (in regards to a recent reply of mine in another thread.) With that said, my reply: I've discussed this Page2 blurb on a Vikes board, and others seemed to agree that the guy who wrote that may be going a bit overboard that also seems like he's accentuating a couple of stereotypes that have plagued black QBs over the years: "not a student of the game, isn't smart enough to read defenses." Recent examples of that (from the top of my head, would be Daunte, Steve McNair, and McNabb, just to name a few--players that have been knocked for the above stereotypes. Don't get me wrong, I hate it when the race card is used so often to the point it's abused, but sometimes, the case may be justified. Here's an article that is not a reaction to that Page2 blurb, but it talks about something similar to the Daunte/racial situation: http://www.kstp.com/article/stories/s14868.html


I'm not one to defend racism, but I think you missed the point here. The author didn't say anything about Daunte being black and he didn't say that Daunte wasn't smart enough to read defenses. The author said he DOESN'T read defenses. I think it was a comment on Culpepper's level of effort more than his intelligence: "He doesn't do it" is different than "he's incapable of doing it because of a racial handicap".

And I agree with you on McNair and McNabb- they do study and learn the game and while they rely mainly on their physical talents, they also make reads and know where to go with the ball. (but I also think McNair's washed up because of the abuse he took with the Titans so he's not going to help Baltimore too much this year)

[gil]

I am moreso asking for (gasp) football debate. Insults/teams aside basically the question is prove this guy wrong.......what makes anyone think that Culpeper in his new setting is going to thrive.

I don't think he's going to 'thrive' exactly, but I don't think he's going to bomb like this writer says.

With his arm strength and decent accuracy, even without all the mobility he once had, I think he *should* have a fair amount of success throwing the ball to Chambers and McMichael as well as having an above average running game with ronnie brown helping out.

[!Papacrunk!]

I must not have gotten that, I dont believe race to be an issue. I think quite simply the QB position, perhaps more than any position on the field requires a certain level of intelligence. Im not in anyway implying Daunte to be ignorant, in fact I thought this to be a good pickup for the Fins. I am moreso asking for (gasp) football debate. Insults/teams aside basically the question is prove this guy wrong.......what makes anyone think that Culpeper in his new setting is going to thrive. It was somewhat minor, I'm not saying he was wearing a hood while he was writing it, just got some of the above mentioned overtones from it. Honestly I don't know if Culpepper will succeed. Who knows if he will forever be the 05 form, or the 04 Culpepper? I mentioned this in the novel of a response in a previous thread--but I think it's not fair to have one horrible season as a representative to one's career just like it's not fair to base one positive season as a representative for one's entire career. I think a lot of us Phin fans have been excited because he's had more positive seasons than he's had negative. One could say that the ProBowl is a popularity/name contest, but after the QB's we;ve had since Marino, it's a refreshing opportunity to have a former ProBowler that is still in the prime of his career at the helm. As far as the success he can have with Miami--anything I can say would be purely speculative until he has some games under his belt. So until that time, it's been fun for a lot of us Phin fans to speculate, and when that happens, peeps get emotional and let some of their homeristic side show. Our offensive line is still a work and progress, but it has really come a long way since the dreaded 4-12 season, and at least it's now year two under Houck's tuteledge and we've also drafted some peeps the last two seasons and also made some o-line FA acquisitions that may or may not payoff, who knows. In regards to the RB situation, I'd love to have a bit more insurance for Ronnie Brown in case anything was to happen, but I believe that Brown will really help out Daunte compared the running game that the Vikes have had during his time there. IMO I think it will make a higer difference for Brown in year two making all of the camps, as oppsed to last year when he missed time due to his holdout. Brown is a bruiser, but he can still take the pressure off Culpepper with receiving some passes as well. I also believe Pep can really benefit with having McMichael early on since a talented TE can really help out a new QB in tight spots. We have a WR that is just now playing at the potential that a lot of us have been seeing in Chambers, but Booker needs to step up his game, but we also brought in an ex-Viking--Kelly Campbell that has a lot of experience with Pep as well, so hopefully that familiarity will help Pep during his beginning transition. Lastly, I hope the defense will help put the offense into easier situations for Pep and the offense to help not only in Pep's early transition but in the future as well. Oh, and hopefully MM doesn't eff things up :) As mentioned before, all of this is purely speculating, so who knows if this will all work out, but that's what the preseason is for, correct?

[OpIv37]

I see the Culpepper pick-up for the Fins as being similar to the Bills getting Bledsoe back in '02. Both teams are on their way up, both needed a QB. Both got a QB with a mixed record who may not exactly be the team's savior, but is better than what they had and was the best available at the time (with the possible exception of Brees this year).

I think the Fish will be decent this year, especially if they can win games without relying on Culpepper (and they have enough talent on D, WR, and RB to do that).

[!Papacrunk!]

I see the Culpepper pick-up for the Fins as being similar to the Bills getting Bledsoe back in '02. Both teams are on their way up, both needed a QB. Both got a QB with a mixed record who may not exactly be the team's savior, but is better than what they had and was the best available at the time (with the possible exception of Brees this year).

I think the Fish will be decent this year, especially if they can win games without relying on Culpepper (and they have enough talent on D, WR, and RB to do that). You know it would be nice, for a change, to win in spite of the QB, as opposed to winning despite the QB, lol (does that make sense??) Our two teams have gotten spoiled after having Marino and Kelly.

[OpIv37]

You know it would be nice, for a change, to win in spite of the QB, as opposed to winning despite the QB, lol (does that make sense??) Our two teams have gotten spoiled after having Marino and Kelly.

I agree with you completely on that one.

[Goobylal]

I already said this. Culpepper's lack of mobility from being rushed-back from his shredded knee will make him a statue back there. As it was, Culpepper took a huge amount of sacks and fumbled a ton. Having a new offense, get comfortable with new teammates, and having to learn to play QB a different way, coupled with the fact that he STUNK at the beginning of last year despite being in the same system, but without his security blanket in Moss, says that Culpepper will be a huge bust this year. Next year is a different story though.

[HHURRICANE]

I see the Culpepper pick-up for the Fins as being similar to the Bills getting Bledsoe back in '02. Both teams are on their way up, both needed a QB. Both got a QB with a mixed record who may not exactly be the team's savior, but is better than what they had and was the best available at the time (with the possible exception of Brees this year).

I think the Fish will be decent this year, especially if they can win games without relying on Culpepper (and they have enough talent on D, WR, and RB to do that).

Smart Post!!

[Goobylal]

I see the Culpepper pick-up for the Fins as being similar to the Bills getting Bledsoe back in '02. Both teams are on their way up, both needed a QB. Both got a QB with a mixed record who may not exactly be the team's savior, but is better than what they had and was the best available at the time (with the possible exception of Brees this year).

I think the Fish will be decent this year, especially if they can win games without relying on Culpepper (and they have enough talent on D, WR, and RB to do that).
The differences are that Bledsoe wasn't coming off a major knee injury, much less one which is still well within the "1 year to recover" timeperiod by the time the season starts, the Dols' defense is aging rapidly, and Ricky Williams herbed half the Dols' running game away. As for the WR's, they're good, but they're no Moss, and Culpepper AT LEAST needs to get into training camp on-time and not suffer any setbacks, and even THEN there's no guarantee he'll be any more on the same page with them than he was with his WR's last year.

[Kerr]

I'm not certain of what type of season pepper is going to have, but based on last year without Moss, i'd say he's going to have his work cut out for him, which is saying is that he's not going to have an impressive season.

[Amare]

Some fat black guy was on espn friday night saying that

[Night Train]

Jason Whitlock is a 300 lb.+ African American who has been filling in on PTI lately for the vacationing Wilbon. He writes for the KC Star and seemes like a sharp guy.

Culpepper is rushing back from a 3 ligament tear, much like Willis. Willis didn't even play the first year back but Dr. Lord Saban is stating Culpepper may start on opening day, less than a year after this type of injury ?

Pardon me if I have serious doubts about him having success this coming season.

I can only hope the Dolphins have Culpepper starting Sept. 17th against the Bills.

[LtFinFan66]

Jason Whitlock is a 300 lb.+ African American who has been filling in on PTI lately for the vacationing Wilbon. He writes for the KC Star and seemes like a sharp guy.

Culpepper is rushing back from a 3 ligament tear, much like Willis. Willis didn't even play the first year back but Dr. Lord Saban is stating Culpepper may start on opening day, less than a year after this type of injury ?

Pardon me if I have serious doubts about him having success this coming season.

I can only hope the Dolphins have Culpepper starting Sept. 17th against the Bills.number 1, Saban has never said when Dante will play....unless you have a link to show that. Many other people have but never Saban and it is he who counts

[Goobylal]

Even if Culpepper were healthy, I'd still have reservations about him based on his play last year. Throw-in the shredded knee and it's no dice. Throw in a new team and Culpepper is almost assured of struggling this year.

[!Papacrunk!]

Jason Whitlock is a 300 lb.+ African American who has been filling in on PTI lately for the vacationing Wilbon. He writes for the KC Star and seemes like a sharp guy.

Culpepper is rushing back from a 3 ligament tear, much like Willis. Willis didn't even play the first year back but Dr. Lord Saban is stating Culpepper may start on opening day, less than a year after this type of injury ?

Pardon me if I have serious doubts about him having success this coming season.

I can only hope the Dolphins have Culpepper starting Sept. 17th against the Bills. My bad, I was wrong about my perception that it was made w/ racial comments. If Culpepper isn't back in time, we'll have Joey Harrington to play until then. We all know Joe Harrington isn't going to scare anyone, but we had some decent success last year when Sage Rosenfels had to fill in. Last season was all about dealing with adversity--when bad things happen the team either was going to choke like the Wanny years or find a way to bounce back---I can give a couple of examples, but I do recall one game that best describes that (see sig.)

[Historian]

It's called the Class of '83 hangover, Papa.

It's funny... Buffalo, Miami, and Denver all have had quarterback struggles, and played musical quarterbacks since their legends retired.

I don't think it's a coincidence.

Granted, no one else is John Elway, or Jim Kelly, or Dan Marino. But look at the bums these franchises have tried to run their offenses with:

Rob Johnson
Todd Collins
Sage Rosenfelds
Gus Frerotte

(You know the list)

It seems to me that neither team prepared for the inevitable. The retirement of their franchise QBs. Hence, each team is still struggling 5-10 years later.

:idunno:

[Earthquake Enyart]

It's not like Joey Harrington is a rocket surgeon.

[!Papacrunk!]

Even if Culpepper were healthy, I'd still have reservations about him based on his play last year. Throw-in the shredded knee and it's no dice. Throw in a new team and Culpepper is almost assured of struggling this year. Well it may sound like excuses to some, but let's look teams he went up against in those losses: Tampa Bay, Cinciannti, Atlanta, Chicago, and Carolina. Looks like some of those teams had some offseason success, correct, also, I believe some of those teams had some above average defenses as well. Another popular excuse is that he lost his star WR, his star C, and his good friend OC. The counterpoint is that Brad Johnson didn't have those things as well. On that flipside, let's look at some of his wins with the same missing elements: DET, NYG, NYG, GNB, STL, CHI. I can give credit for the two wins against NYG and CHI (which was probably a team resting their starters,) but those other teams weren't exactly scary either. Also Johnson had two losses to PIT and BAL. So who knows what success Pep would've had if he played the full season, but I'll take that last season as a mulligan because of those above points and Pep's career as a whole.

[Goobylal]

Well if you're content beating bad teams and losing to good ones, Pep of last year should be fine with you. Except that he's coming off a major knee injury and isn't a spring chicken anymore. Again this isn't one thing I'm pointing to; it's several things which together make it HIGHLY doubtful DC does anything for the Dolphins this year. Moss, Birk, and Linehan don't play/work for the Dolphins, DC is a scrambling QB who will need to learn to be a pocket passer while his knee heals, and his knee needs to HEAL first before he can get out there and become comfortable with his new sets of receivers and backs. It would be best for the Dolphins to put him on the PUP list and dust him off later in the season at best. But I'm sure the pressure will be there to play his quickly, which could do more harm than good.