This team has 2001 Bills written all over it

[patmoran2006]

It's a lot of the same right now. First year head coach in Gregg Williams. First year GM in Tom Donahoe, an ugly QB situation with the crafty vet with the chicken arm Alex Van Pelt (Holcomb) and the physically gifted but mental mdiget Rob Johnson (Losman).

That team played hard, very hard every game. The only problem was they weren't TALENTED enough to win. They started out 0-4. They were 1-10 at some point. In fact the three games they won were by a combined nine points. IN other words, they were 10 points away from going winless for the entire season.

While I dont see the Bills being winless this year (thanks largely to playing the Jets twice) the fact is for all the young hungry players and turnover in the front office and coaching staff, this team is simply NOT GOOD enough to win, a fact that some of you people refuse to let enter your head. This is a 3-4 win team and thats the way it is this year.

Forget about the mess at QB, everybody knows that.. How about the offensive line. Ask yourself this, how many of these current starting five would be starting on more than a small handful of other teams around the league? I say one; Jason Peters.

The DL was pitiful last year and it won't be much better this year. I dont think it could be any worse. All the speed in the world dont mean **** when your getting knocked on your ass every play.

And I wont even get into Whitner, which is quickly turning into an embarassing situation. Seeing there was nobody on EARTH who was taking Whitner in the first seven picks, Marv should have had all the time in the WORLD to get a feel for what it would've taken to get this guy signed before the draft.

Now my hopes is that the future can see this team turnaround much like that 2001 team did. That club got better and were if not run poorly on Donahoe's part, and coached AWFULLY by Mularkey Buffalo was a team on paper that was good enough to go to the playoffs two of the past three years. So while Im confident Levy and Jauron may turn around the franchise for the better over the next few years, they aint going anywhere-anytime soon.

While I admit I may have a crap attitude right now about this season, I'll hopefully be a lot less angry on Sundays during the fall, knowing in early August what to expect..I already got my tix and ordered my 06 jersey (McGee-THANK GOD I almost bought WHitner) I'll be rooting, but I"m not stupid.. This team flat-out sucks, and you all know it.

[Mr. Miyagi]

:yawn:

[justasportsfan]

I don't think we're gonna end up 3-13.

While there are a lot of if's on this team, the other teams in the AFCE do too.

[HAMMER]

Get a life, you've said all this crap 50+ times.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Get a life, you've said all this crap 50+ times.
Thus the :yawn:

[The King]

Juaron isnt a first time head coach.

[Carlton Bailey]

This team's a hell of a lot better than 2001. For starters, wasn't Shawn Bryson the #1 back on that team? And wasn't the defense awful?

I really don't see too many similarities.

[jmb1099]

It's a lot of the same right now. First year head coach in Gregg Williams. First year GM in Tom Donahoe, an ugly QB situation with the crafty vet with the chicken arm Alex Van Pelt (Holcomb) and the physically gifted but mental mdiget Rob Johnson (Losman).

That team played hard, very hard every game. The only problem was they weren't TALENTED enough to win. They started out 0-4. They were 1-10 at some point. In fact the three games they won were by a combined nine points. IN other words, they were 10 points away from going winless for the entire season.

While I dont see the Bills being winless this year (thanks largely to playing the Jets twice) the fact is for all the young hungry players and turnover in the front office and coaching staff, this team is simply NOT GOOD enough to win, a fact that some of you people refuse to let enter your head. This is a 3-4 win team and thats the way it is this year.

Forget about the mess at QB, everybody knows that.. How about the offensive line. Ask yourself this, how many of these current starting five would be starting on more than a small handful of other teams around the league? I say one; Jason Peters.

The DL was pitiful last year and it won't be much better this year. I dont think it could be any worse. All the speed in the world dont mean **** when your getting knocked on your ass every play.

And I wont even get into Whitner, which is quickly turning into an embarassing situation. Seeing there was nobody on EARTH who was taking Whitner in the first seven picks, Marv should have had all the time in the WORLD to get a feel for what it would've taken to get this guy signed before the draft.

Now my hopes is that the future can see this team turnaround much like that 2001 team did. That club got better and were if not run poorly on Donahoe's part, and coached AWFULLY by Mularkey Buffalo was a team on paper that was good enough to go to the playoffs two of the past three years. So while Im confident Levy and Jauron may turn around the franchise for the better over the next few years, they aint going anywhere-anytime soon.

While I admit I may have a crap attitude right now about this season, I'll hopefully be a lot less angry on Sundays during the fall, knowing in early August what to expect..I already got my tix and ordered my 06 jersey (McGee-THANK GOD I almost bought WHitner) I'll be rooting, but I"m not stupid.. This team flat-out sucks, and you all know it.

You're right...you do have a crap attitude about the season. I usually appreciate a good deal of what you say, but this post should have never been made, more of the same old same old, quite frankly I heard this point of view the first 492000 times.

[patmoran2006]

Get a life, you've said all this crap 50+ times.
I'll try to get a life. In the meantime, I'll express my opinions whatever I want as everyone on here does the same.

You're not even a Homer.. At least most have the ablity to express their points.. You just sit there and try to get personal.

[patmoran2006]

I also dont ever remember comparing the 2001 QB situation of AVP and Rob Johnson to this year's team, which is eerily the same deal.

[patmoran2006]

This team's a hell of a lot better than 2001. For starters, wasn't Shawn Bryson the #1 back on that team? And wasn't the defense awful?

I really don't see too many similarities.

Travis Henry led the team in rushing that year.. And yes the defense was awful.. and last I checked, our defense last year was awful, and with Nate having an eye on Free AGency, TKO lucky to be back at 80% and at least two rookies in the regular rotation, I expect to see more of the same.

[BillsFever21]

What evidence do you have that JP Losman is a mental midget? Because he made some bad decisions in his first 8 games as a starter like every other QB who ever played the game did? This article is a mental midget if you ask me.

[L.A. Playa]

he is just honing his writing skills and obviously he is doing a pretty good job because he keeps getting a reaction from people

[patmoran2006]

young-mobile-athletic QB with a rocket arm who's supposed to be a savior, traded picks to get him.. Rob Johnson and Losman right now are very much the same to me.

Rob Johnson didnt even bother talking to media.. Losman likes to recite yoda quotes.

[Captain Obvious]

And I wont even get into Whitner, which is quickly turning into an embarassing situation. Seeing there was nobody on EARTH who was taking Whitner in the first seven picks, Marv should have had all the time in the WORLD to get a feel for what it would've taken to get this guy signed before the draft.




Donte Whitners' s agent doesn't give a rats patoot that everyone on earth thinks the Bills reached by 5-9 spots to take Whitner. Hes the 8th pick and his agent his going to see he is compensated as the eighth pick.

[BillsFever21]

young-mobile-athletic QB with a rocket arm who's supposed to be a savior, traded picks to get him.. Rob Johnson and Losman right now are very much the same to me.

Rob Johnson didnt even bother talking to media.. Losman likes to recite yoda quotes.

Because they are both young and athletic that makes Losman a mental midget?

I guess all the other young athletic QB's are mental midgets too? Is Vince Young, Matt Leinart and Jay Cutler mental midgets too because they are young and athletic?

This is about as dumb as it can get. So if Losman wasn't very athletic and didn't have a rocket arm then he wouldn't be considered a mental midget? What a worthless comparison.

[Captain Obvious]

Losman likes to recite yoda quotes.


Why are you constantly making a issue of this? ONE quote at a postgame press conference, a harmless attempt at humour at another run of the mill press conference.

[patmoran2006]

No I've seen plenty of STUPID throws and decisions in Losman from just "8 games" to make my conclusions..

Young, Leinart and Cutler havent played a down.

[Ickybaluky]

I guess all the other young athletic QB's are mental midgets too? Is Vince Young, Matt Leinart and Jay Cutler mental midgets too because they are young and athletic?

Steve Young?

[BillsFever21]

No I've seen plenty of STUPID throws and decisions in Losman from just "8 games" to make my conclusions..

Young, Leinart and Cutler havent played a down.

And I've seen plenty of stupid posts and articles in 1 year to make my conclusions.

[HAMMER]

he is just honing his writing skills and obviously he is doing a pretty good job because he keeps getting a reaction from people

Don't encourage him, he says the same five things over, and over, and over. As for his writing skills, well, I think one can pretty accurately surmise that he doesn't have any.

[Philagape]

young-mobile-athletic QB with a rocket arm who's supposed to be a savior, traded picks to get him.. Rob Johnson and Losman right now are very much the same to me.

Rob Johnson didnt even bother talking to media.. Losman likes to recite yoda quotes.

They're both from southern California (both born in cities that have "Beach" in their names). And they both have a lot of hair. And both their last names have two syllables and end in the letter N. They both resemble movie stars (Rob-Nic Cage, JP-Sandler)

Rob wore No. 11 and his main competition was No. 7. JP wears 7 and replaced a guy who wore 11.

It's like those Lincoln-Kennedy coincidences. :jawdrop:

[patmoran2006]

And I've seen plenty of stupid posts and articles in 1 year to make my conclusions.
Are you counting your own?

[L.A. Playa]

They're both from southern California (both born in cities that have "Beach" in their names). And they both have a lot of hair. And both their last names have two syllables that end in the letter N. They both resemble movie stars (Rob-Nic Cage, JP-Sandler)

Rob wore No. 11 and his main competition was No. 7. JP wears 7 and replaced a guy who wore 11.

It's like those Lincoln-Kennedy coincidences. :jawdrop:

JP wasnt a surfer he stole boats, plus growing up in Newport Beach and growing up in Venice Beach are night and day

[patmoran2006]

LOL I cant wait to see everyone's reaction by like week five on how foolish you were to back this clown.

You better hope Craig Nall gets healthy quick.. Losman can't even beat Holcomb you think he's going to be a real NFL defense?

[Philagape]

No I've seen plenty of STUPID throws and decisions in Losman from just "8 games" to make my conclusions..

Young, Leinart and Cutler havent played a down.

Why is "8 games" in quotes? Is there contrary information? Not really something that's open to interpretation.

[BillsFever21]

Are you counting your own?

No. I don't try and pass myself off as an analyst and sports writer.

I have my opinions. Some might not like them. I don't try and feed anything on them with writing a ton of articles that nobody wants to read and changing my mind all the time.

[justasportsfan]

young-mobile-athletic QB with a rocket arm who's supposed to be a savior, traded picks to get him.. Rob Johnson and Losman right now are very much the same to me.

Rob Johnson didnt even bother talking to media.. Losman likes to recite yoda quotes.
They're both from Cali :up:

One surfs and the other listens to incubus


One wore a bandana, the other didn't

One was of mexican decent the other wasn't

One was born w/ a silver spoon the other lived in a room w/ several of his cousins .

the other was lazy, the other has excellent work ethic

one lived in the hotel airport and couldn't wait to leave , while the other one bought a mansion in buffalo

One would lay down automatically while the other keeps trying to make a play to a fault.

One NEVER fumbled the clipboard, the other never held one.


Yup, they are very simliar expecially in the work ethic dept.


PS- you're also very simlilar to Wys. Other than the length or articles and posts, same stuff OVER and over and over and over and.....

[L.A. Playa]

stupid is stupid does, give J.P. a chance under a coach who isnt an offensive genius

[Night Train]

I don't think we're gonna end up 3-13.

While there are a lot of if's on this team, the other teams in the AFCE do too.

But the less we know about the other teams, the better they are. Dat's a fact. Aren't you intimidated by the Great Mangini !

:respect:

[justasportsfan]

Aren't you intimidated by the Great Mangini !

:respect: A little bit. I once saw him cut a man in half . Honestly, David Copperfield did it better.

[L.A. Playa]

A little bit. I once saw him cut a man in half . Honestly, David Copperfield did it better.

is that what happened to Ice ???

[justasportsfan]

Losman can't even beat Holcomb you think he's going to be a real NFL defense?
you have proof of this or did you pull that out from your ass?

[justasportsfan]

is that what happened to Ice ???One of the MODS did a pray over and the evil spirit was bannished and never to come back again. Well one left and the other stayed. I think the one that stayed thinks he was a writer in his past life or something. I don't think he's moved on yet. The bright light hasn't passed his way yet. There is a black cloud though. :idunno:

[patmoran2006]

I am a football FAN

[patmoran2006]

One of the MODS did a pray over and the evil spirit was bannished and never to come back again. Well one left and the other stayed. I think the one that stayed thinks he was a writer in his past life or something. I don't think he's moved on yet. The bright light hasn't passed his way yet. There is a black cloud though. :idunno:
Me and Ice bickering has NOTHING on you and OP

[JoeMama]

Forget about the mess at QB, everybody knows that.. How about the offensive line. Ask yourself this, how many of these current starting five would be starting on more than a small handful of other teams around the league? I say one; Jason Peters.

No way, man.

No offensive line in the history of the NFL is bad enough to be compared to o-line the Bills sported in 2001.

Understand, we started guys like Corey Hulsey, Kris Farris, Craig Heimburger, Bill Conaty, Jon Carman, etc, over the course of the season.

Just a cursory glance at those names shows THAT'S a bad line.

At least on this roster we have some above average -- though unheralded -- linemen.

Obviously Jason Peters is solid.

Chris Villarrial is very underrated. He's a solid guard who gets a decent amount of praise. In one NFL preview magazine for 2006, he was listed as a top ten guard. That may be generous, but he's defnitely above average.

Melvin Fowler is probably an upgrade over Trey Teague (although it sounds like McCargo & Anderson are whooping him in team drills, which isn't good). By all accounts, he had one hell of a year replacing Matt Birk last season.

Tutan Reyes was a solid lineman for the Panthers. Hell, Reyes is an upgrade by default just because he's not Bennie Anderson, who was the weakest link on the line last season.

The real question mark is left tackle, Mike Gandy. I thought he struggled last year, but a lot of people say he actually had a good season. I guess the jury is still out -- but in the long run -- we are going to need a better player down the road. He's defnitely not as good as Jonas Jennings.

There's a chance for the line to be a respectable, cohesive unit. I'm not exactly holding my breath, but I can appreciate the fact that this line is light years ahead of 2001.


The DL was pitiful last year and it won't be much better this year. I dont think it could be any worse. All the speed in the world dont mean **** when your getting knocked on your ass every play.


You're right about that.

I don't really trust Dick Jauron's blueprint on defense -- particularly the rushing defense -- for one main reason. He prefers smaller, faster tackles that can get upfield. Which is vastly different than the system normally used in Buffalo.


When the Bills defense was REALLY good, they used the 3-4 defense that Wade Phillips & Ted Cottrell installed in the late 90's.

The model was easy; you get a big fat guy to plug in at nose tackle, surround him with at least one good defensive end, & then you let the linebackers do their thing.

With smaller defensive tackles, I'm worried the Bills are gonna get manhandled at the line of scrimmage.

Plus, Jauron has only had one -- ONE -- season where his defense ranked in the top 15 in his entire career, even as coordinator for the Jags & Lions. And that was when he started two of the most massive defensive tackles imaginable; Keith Traylor & Ted Washington.

[BillsFever21]

No way, man.

No offensive line in the history of the NFL is bad enough to be compared to o-line the Bills sported in 2001.

Understand, we started guys like Corey Hulsey, Kris Farris, Craig Heimburger, Bill Conaty, Jon Carman, etc, over the course of the season.

Just a cursory glance at those names shows THAT'S a bad line.

At least on this roster we have some above average -- though unheralded -- linemen.

Obviously Jason Peters is solid.

Chris Villarrial is very underrated. He's a solid guard who gets a decent amount of praise. In one NFL preview magazine for 2006, he was listed as a top ten guard. That may be generous, but he's defnitely above average.

Melvin Fowler is probably an upgrade over Trey Teague (although it sounds like McCargo & Anderson are whooping him in team drills, which isn't good). By all accounts, he had one hell of a year replacing Matt Birk last season.

Tutan Reyes was a solid lineman for the Panthers. Hell, Reyes is an upgrade by default just because he's not Bennie Anderson, who was the weakest link on the line last season.

The real question mark is left tackle, Mike Gandy. I thought he struggled last year, but a lot of people say he actually had a good season. I guess the jury is still out -- but in the long run -- we are going to need a better player down the road. He's defnitely not as good as Jonas Jennings.

There's a chance for the line to be a respectable, cohesive unit. I'm not exactly holding my breath, but I can appreciate the fact that this line is light years ahead of 2001.



You're right about that.

I don't really trust Dick Jauron's blueprint on defense -- particularly the rushing defense -- for one main reason. He prefers smaller, faster tackles that can get upfield. Which is vastly different than the system normally used in Buffalo.


When the Bills defense was REALLY good, they used the 3-4 defense that Wade Phillips & Ted Cottrell installed in the late 90's.

The model was easy; you get a big fat guy to plug in at nose tackle, surround him with at least one good defensive end, & then you let the linebackers do their thing.

With smaller defensive tackles, I'm worried the Bills are gonna get manhandled at the line of scrimmage.

Plus, Jauron has only had one -- ONE -- season where his defense ranked in the top 15 in his entire career, even as coordinator for the Jags & Lions. And that was when he started two of the most massive defensive tackles imaginable; Keith Traylor & Ted Washington.

Thank you.

The 2001 offensive line may be the worse in the history of the NFL.

[justasportsfan]

Me and Ice bickering has NOTHING on you and OP
yeah but it's never personal w/ me and OP. We've met , drank and hung out together.

First it was wys. He couldn't fool people here.Now he's gone. Then comes ICe, he couldn't fool zoners into buying his crap. Now you're learning that we aren't easily fooled into your BS either. Not saying you should leave but you won't be BSing anyone here.

[patmoran2006]

yeah but it's never personal w/ me and OP. We've met and drank and hung out together.

First it was wys. He couldn't fool people here.Now he's gone. Then comes ICe, he couldn't fool zoners into buying his crap. Now you're learning that we aren't easily fooled into your BS either. Not saying you should leave but you won't be BSing anyone here.

BS'ing how? I could care less if you or anyone agrees with my opinons about the Bills. I say what's on my mind concerning the team and I unlike some others on here I dont write comments to try and get that little "thanks" marks on my posts..

[Ed]

I don't think 2001 is nearly as comparable as you think. First of all, about 33% of our salary cap was dead cap space or something ridiculous like that. That team was so young and had no talent. Are only two players worth mentioning at the time were Eric Moulds and Sam Cowart. Cowart got hurt in the very first quarter of the very first game and never saw the field for the Bills ever again.

I mean who else did we have on defense after Pat Williams and Winfield? Schobel and Clements were both rookies. Phil Hansen was ancient. I can't even remember our other DT. I'm not sure who our safeties were. Tillman? A 23 year old Keion Carpenter? Prioleau? And then there's our LB's. Old Eddie Robinson who got faked out of his shoes by Chad Pennington was our WLB. I believe rookie Brandon Spoon or maybe someone named Wright took over for Cowart in the middle. And then there was good old Jay Foreman wreaking havoc on the strong side. That defense sucked.

Unfortunately, the only thing that sucked more was our offensive line. Not only did we have a group of slugs up front, but none of them could even stay healthy. Did anyone ever actually take a moment to watch John Fina play during that final year? It was atrocious. Same with our RG, I can't remember his name. Hulsey maybe? Our only decent lineman was Jennings and he was rookie and couldn't even make it through the whole season. Yeah, we had Travis Henry running the ball, but it's too bad he was a rookie and couldn't even break 800 yards for the season. That offense was a joke.

I don't believe anyone has mentioned ST's either. Whatever we had in 2001 sure as hell doesn't come anywhere close to what we have today.

I also don't think it's fair to compare coaching staffs. Gregg Williams was a rookie and all of his assistants were basically rookies at their new jobs too. We at least seem to have a lot more experience going for us this time around.

[justasportsfan]

BS'ing how? I could care less if you or anyone agrees with my opinons about the Bills. I say what's on my mind concerning the team and I unlike some others on here I dont write comments to try and get that little "thanks" marks on my posts.. Your BS are your articles and posts that are repetitive. There's nothing new in your articles.


I'm still waiting for your proof that JP can't beat out KH. Where are your sources that you claim to have? did they tell you that?

Just so you know, most rookie qb's don't just come in and beat out the vet qb unless you are Ben. In almost all cases it's handed to them because of where they were drafted. For you to think that JP who was not coached properly to come in and easily take the job away from KH is just bullcrap.

Makes you wonder how SI or whatever site you write articles for can get suckered into posting your articles if you can't even figure out the JP situation.

[BillsFever21]

Steve Young?

:up:

Steve Young is also a mental midget because he made some bad decisions when he was young and was also athletic.

[ParanoidAndroid]

In fact the three games they won were by a combined nine points. IN other words, they were 10 points away from going winless for the entire season.

Is there a super secret way of scoring 1/3 of a point in football? :D

P.S. You might want to change that to "12 points away...." unless you want to include ties which means 9 points will do.

P.P.S. The US ranks 24th in the world in math skills. :sadwalk:

[finsrclowns]

Note to Pat: if you're going to be annoying, at least have the decency to post in a font you don't need the Hubble telescope to read. Thanks.:rrich:

[ParanoidAndroid]

Note to Pat: if you're going to be annoying, at least have the decency to post in a font you don't need the Hubble telescope to read. Thanks.:rrich:

A telescope orbiting the planet? Maybe you should sit closer to your monitor. Electron microscope would have been funnier.

Ok...that's two :nerd: posts in a row for me....I'm done.

[BidsJr]

Your BS are your articles and posts that are repetitive. There's nothing new in your articles.


I'm still waiting for your proof that JP can't beat out KH. Where are your sources that you claim to have? did they tell you that?

Just so you know, most rookie qb's don't just come in and beat out the vet qb unless you are Ben. In almost all cases it's handed to them because of where they were drafted. For you to think that JP who was not coached properly to come in and easily take the job away from KH is just bullcrap.

Makes you wonder how SI or whatever site you write articles for can get suckered into posting your articles if you can't even figure out the JP situation.


And Ben only got it because of injury to Maddux. It would have been handed to him teh very next year.

[Dr. Lecter]

young-mobile-athletic QB with a rocket arm who's supposed to be a savior, traded picks to get him.. Rob Johnson and Losman right now are very much the same to me.

Rob Johnson didnt even bother talking to media.. Losman likes to recite yoda quotes.

Did you hear Losman on 97 Rock yesterday?

He is much improved with his interviews. Give the guy a break. Bruce Smith was awful his first couple of years too.

Also, who is playing the role of the back stabbing midget at QB?

[Dr. Lecter]

A telescope orbiting the planet? Maybe you should sit closer to your monitor. Electron microscope would have been funnier.

Ok...that's two :nerd: posts in a row for me....I'm done.

I have confidence you have more :nerd: in you.

[cordog]

I don't think 2001 is nearly as comparable as you think. First of all, about 33% of our salary cap was dead cap space or something ridiculous like that. That team was so young and had no talent. Are only two players worth mentioning at the time were Eric Moulds and Sam Cowart. Cowart got hurt in the very first quarter of the very first game and never saw the field for the Bills ever again.

I mean who else did we have on defense after Pat Williams and Winfield? Schobel and Clements were both rookies. Phil Hansen was ancient. I can't even remember our other DT. I'm not sure who our safeties were. Tillman? A 23 year old Keion Carpenter? Prioleau? And then there's our LB's. Old Eddie Robinson who got faked out of his shoes by Chad Pennington was our WLB. I believe rookie Brandon Spoon or maybe someone named Wright took over for Cowart in the middle. And then there was good old Jay Foreman wreaking havoc on the strong side. That defense sucked.

Unfortunately, the only thing that sucked more was our offensive line. Not only did we have a group of slugs up front, but none of them could even stay healthy. Did anyone ever actually take a moment to watch John Fina play during that final year? It was atrocious. Same with our RG, I can't remember his name. Hulsey maybe? Our only decent lineman was Jennings and he was rookie and couldn't even make it through the whole season. Yeah, we had Travis Henry running the ball, but it's too bad he was a rookie and couldn't even break 800 yards for the season. That offense was a joke.

I don't believe anyone has mentioned ST's either. Whatever we had in 2001 sure as hell doesn't come anywhere close to what we have today.

I also don't think it's fair to compare coaching staffs. Gregg Williams was a rookie and all of his assistants were basically rookies at their new jobs too. We at least seem to have a lot more experience going for us this time around.

You took the words out of my mouth. The only similarities with the 2001 bills and the 2006 Bills are Peerless Price, Clements, Schobel, Moorman and Chuck Lester.

[finsrclowns]

A telescope orbiting the planet? Maybe you should sit closer to your monitor. Electron microscope would have been funnier.

Ok...that's two :nerd: posts in a row for me....I'm done.


No, no I invested a billion dollars for my own Hubble and it's right in my own planeterium. It's mostly to see other galaxies but it is also helpful for reading Pat's posts. But you're right, an electron microscope would have been a solid choice also.

[MTBillsFan]

The 2001 team had just been gutted and was in salary cap hell. I'll never forget seeing an interview by GW saying we can go to the playoffs right now with this group of players. Then 6/1 came along and Bruce and Andre and Thurman were gone.