My Camp Report 8/3/06........

[BuffaloBillsStampede]

If you are a Holcomb fan you are going to like what I have to say. I have been behind JP this whole time and I still am, but after last nights practice I think Holcomb may have jumped in front.

Let me start by saying both QB's looked good last night, and JP didn't throw any possible INT's that I can remember while Kelly threw two that were close ones because of his arm strenght. JP was getting the ball out quickly for the most part and finding open guys and threading the needle a couple times. Holcomb was also getting the ball out quickly, but on a more consitent basis. He was also finding guys down the field more often. During the long ball practice JP overthrew everyone, I don't think one ball was caught. Kelly Holcomb had less chances at it, but he threw two beauties one that went for a TD and one that went for a long gainer. It just looked like he was putting the ball right where it needed to be. While JP didn't have a bad practice Kelly's was just overall more consistent and impressive to me. I think if there really is an open competition Holcomb just pulled ahead slightly. I still have faith that JP can get back up there though because he looked good last night. If it means anything to anyone Holcomb was taking snaps with the first team all night.

RB's looked good again with the runs to the outside going or a few big gainers and not much up the middle aside from one or two. Willis, A-Train, and Gates again showed the most. I think Willis is going to have a monster year this year. He looks more decisive and just quicker overall.

WR's were dropping some balls last night, but I think it had a lot to do with the rain factor. There were some nice grabs during the deep ball session by Parrish, Chris Denney everhthough it was out of bounds, and one other I can't remember who but I want to say George Wilson.

TE's didn't see the tight ends being used a lot in that practice so not much to report about them.

O-Line I am really starting to worry about our backups. Jason Peters has Pro-Bowl potential down the road. The athletic starters we brought in are helping our outside running game tremendously. Gandy has not looked impressive so far, and the backups have been awful. Everytime the backups come in there is constant pressure on the QB's and nowhere to run. I am sure there are a couple good ones in there, but it's hard to tell in the pile.

D-Line once again impressed me. I don't want to get ahead of myself, but I am really pumped about McCargo because he has looked really good so far. He moves a lot fast than someone his size should. He gets push everytime up the middle whether he gets by the blocker or not. Very quick off the ball. I was watching the Line drills for the D when they were doing footwork drills over the pads and honestly McCargo and Kyle Williams were the quickest to me with Tripplett close behind. I think Marv knew exactly what he was doing drafting these guys. Ryan Denney has been impressive so far in camp and continues to take the snaps with the first unit. I wouldn't be surprised if McCargo cracks the starting lineup sometime replacing Andersen.

LB's were good as usual. I do have to say though Takeo wasn't as quick tonight in the LB drills as he was the other day. He almost fell over backwards while backpedaling at one point, but he did recover to make the play. I hope it was just an off day, because he hasn't shown any signs like that before. Crowell looks real fast. Fletcher is Fletcher.

The DB's is the unit I am really excited about. I think we may get the real Nate back this year, and McGee breaks passes up on a regular basis. Ko Simpson continues his strong camp. Matt Bowen has even looked good. Donte Whitner can kiss the starting job good bye in my opinion because Matt Bowen has shown nothing but good things so far.

Kepp in mind I did leave a little early due to the heavy rain, but I saw most of the practice, so I don't know what happened after I left.

[ICE74129]

If you are a Holcomb fan you are going to like what I have to say. I have been behind JP this whole time and I still am, but after last nights practice I think Holcomb may have jumped in front.

Let me start by saying both QB's looked good last night, and JP didn't throw any possible INT's that I can remember while Kelly threw two that were close ones because of his arm strenght. JP was getting the ball out quickly for the most part and finding open guys and threading the needle a couple times. Holcomb was also getting the ball out quickly, but on a more consitent basis. He was also finding guys down the field more often. During the long ball practice JP overthrew everyone, I don't think one ball was caught. Kelly Holcomb had less chances at it, but he threw two beauties one that went for a TD and one that went for a long gainer. It just looked like he was putting the ball right where it needed to be. While JP didn't have a bad practice Kelly's was just overall more consistent and impressive to me. I think if there really is an open competition Holcomb just pulled ahead slightly. I still have faith that JP can get back up there though because he looked good last night. If it means anything to anyone Holcomb was taking snaps with the first team all night.

RB's looked good again with the runs to the outside going or a few big gainers and not much up the middle aside from one or two. Willis, A-Train, and Gates again showed the most. I think Willis is going to have a monster year this year. He looks more decisive and just quicker overall.

WR's were dropping some balls last night, but I think it had a lot to do with the rain factor. There were some nice grabs during the deep ball session by Parrish, Chris Denney everhthough it was out of bounds, and one other I can't remember who but I want to say George Wilson.

TE's didn't see the tight ends being used a lot in that practice so not much to report about them.

O-Line I am really starting to worry about our backups. Jason Peters has Pro-Bowl potential down the road. The athletic starters we brought in are helping our outside running game tremendously. Gandy has not looked impressive so far, and the backups have been awful. Everytime the backups come in there is constant pressure on the QB's and nowhere to run. I am sure there are a couple good ones in there, but it's hard to tell in the pile.

D-Line once again impressed me. I don't want to get ahead of myself, but I am really pumped about McCargo because he has looked really good so far. He moves a lot fast than someone his size should. He gets push everytime up the middle whether he gets by the blocker or not. Very quick off the ball. I was watching the Line drills for the D when they were doing footwork drills over the pads and honestly McCargo and Kyle Williams were the quickest to me with Tripplett close behind. I think Marv knew exactly what he was doing drafting these guys. Ryan Denney has been impressive so far in camp and continues to take the snaps with the first unit. I wouldn't be surprised if McCargo cracks the starting lineup sometime replacing Andersen.

LB's were good as usual. I do have to say though Takeo wasn't as quick tonight in the LB drills as he was the other day. He almost fell over backwards while backpedaling at one point, but he did recover to make the play. I hope it was just an off day, because he hasn't shown any signs like that before. Crowell looks real fast. Fletcher is Fletcher.

The DB's is the unit I am really excited about. I think we may get the real Nate back this year, and McGee breaks passes up on a regular basis. Ko Simpson continues his strong camp. Matt Bowen has even looked good. Donte Whitner can kiss the starting job good bye in my opinion because Matt Bowen has shown nothing but good things so far.

Kepp in mind I did leave a little early due to the heavy rain, but I saw most of the practice, so I don't know what happened after I left.



Again I ask, how many reps with the first string for JP, and for Holcomb. I bet KH had more reps with the first string, that has been the theme so far in camp.

It was my understanding JP was off because he had much more pressure in his face (due to not having the starting line in front of him) than holcomb did?

Man more and more its showing there isn't a legit comp going on.

[BuffaloBillsStampede]

Well Kelly had more snaps with 1st string I would say. Whether it was first or second string line last night JP looked good.

I want to clarify if I didn't say it correctly that they both had real good practices, but in my opinion Kelly did enough to take the lead last night.

I was also wondering why JP wasn't getting more snaps with the 1st team like Kelly was so I think that is a valid point.

[The Spaz]

Weird Chris Brown said the TE's we're used quite a bit.

[Patti120]

Thanks for the update!!

[Earthquake Enyart]

Again I ask, how many reps with the first string for JP, and for Holcomb. I bet KH had more reps with the first string, that has been the theme so far in camp.

It was my understanding JP was off because he had much more pressure in his face (due to not having the starting line in front of him) than holcomb did?

Man more and more its showing there isn't a legit comp going on.
It's really unfair that Holcomb throws the ball better and makes better decisions.

DJ should stop this nonsense right now

[BuffaloBillsStampede]

Yeah I just read that I guess I didn't see it. It was hard last night because of the rain and doing different drills all over the field, but Royal has looked impressive the other three days I have been there so it doesn't surprise me.

[alohabillsfan]

LB's were good as usual. I do have to say though Takeo wasn't as quick tonight in the LB drills as he was the other day. He almost fell over backwards while backpedaling at one point, but he did recover to make the play. I hope it was just an off day, because he hasn't shown any signs like that before. Crowell looks real fast. Fletcher is Fletcher.


Technically Fletcher is Fletcher-Baker! Great Write-Up, thanks for all of us Bills fans around the globe!

[The last buffalo fan]

:bf1:, Thanks man, for your time and work.

[ICE74129]

Well Kelly had more snaps with 1st string I would say. Whether it was first or second string line last night JP looked good.

I want to clarify if I didn't say it correctly that they both had real good practices, but in my opinion Kelly did enough to take the lead last night.

I was also wondering why JP wasn't getting more snaps with the 1st team like Kelly was so I think that is a valid point.

Again guys I am not meaning to be a jerk, I just know for FACT there is no such thing as a legit QB comp. There is no way they can have one.

[Jan Reimers]

Thanks for the great report, BBS.

I'm not surprised that Holcomb looks so good in camp. He has a histoty of that. If he becomes our starter for the regular season, however, his lack of mobility, weak arm, and propensity to fumble will produce a very mediocre year for all of us. He has a history of that, too.

[BuffaloBillsStampede]

He did have a fumble yesterday, but like I said it was raining.

[ICE74129]

It's really unfair that Holcomb throws the ball better and makes better decisions.

DJ should stop this nonsense right now

Sorry EE that was a stupid comment and I am suprised a smart poster like you would come with that.

Here is reality and fact, you play with the 2nd string you aren't going to do as good. If that were the case, who do we care who starts on the OL, DL etc? There is a first string for a reason.

DJ is starting to show he wants Holcomb as his QB which is his MO. He doesnt' have the guts to make the right decision and allow JP the real opportunity to win the job. That is my opinion and so far the facts are pileing up to back it.

[carybillsfan]

McCargo was always great at NCSU. Him being doubled team often allowed Mario Williams to run free on stunts or his quick feet and penetration often forced Qb's to shift Williams' way. I'm not worried about him at all, he's a solid player and will make the pro-bowl one day. As for the Qb competition, let's just wait and see what happens in the first 2 preseason games. When a QB actually can get hit, and our qb's will, it's a whole new game.

[LtBillsFan66]

KH is such a cancer. He should purposely do bad so that JP can be the clear starter.


That was sarcasm for some of you dumbasses.

[Bulldog]

With regards to the long ball drill, JP did over throw a couple of WR's. But to be fair, he hit Josh Reed with a perfect pass, but Reed dropped it. A real surprise, I know. While Holcomb did make a few nice throws, I also noticed that one of the WR's blew past the DB and had to wait for the pass from Holcomb to arrive. I just think he doesn't have a strong enough arm and having all this speed at the WR position is a waste if indeed Holcomb is going to be the starter. Time will tell. And honestly, I really don't think you can state that either Losman or Holcomb has taken the lead based on one performance at practice. I still think Losman will be the starter on opening day.

[justasportsfan]

DJ is starting to show he wants Holcomb as his QB which is his MO. He doesnt' have the guts to make the right decision and allow JP the real opportunity to win the job. That is my opinion and so far the facts are pileing up to back it.Just like OP, you're jumping to conclusions.

Are you gonna get back to changing your mind again?

[Jan Reimers]

Well Kelly had more snaps with 1st string I would say. Whether it was first or second string line last night JP looked good.

I want to clarify if I didn't say it correctly that they both had real good practices, but in my opinion Kelly did enough to take the lead last night.

I was also wondering why JP wasn't getting more snaps with the 1st team like Kelly was so I think that is a valid point.
This is not a fair and open competition, then. If it were, each would be getting the same amount of snaps with the first and second teams. If Holcomb - who already has the advantage in experience - "wins" the competition under these circumstances, I will be very disappointed in Jauron.

And most of my optimism and enthusiasm for this season will be gone. It will simply be another year of wheel spinning with a second rate, no-future QB.

[BuffaloBillsStampede]

Actually that ball never hit Reed's hands. If it had been a faster guy it might have but he dove and didn't touch it. I agree 100% with everything you said though. In a game situation I would want JP throwing a deep ball no matter who did better in practice. Holcomb's passes just don't have enough zip on them.

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

I am so sick of this I want to puke

[justasportsfan]

Actually that ball never hit Reed's hands. If it had been a faster guy it might have but he dove and didn't touch it. I agree 100% with everything you said though. In a game situation I would want JP throwing a deep ball no matter who did better in practice. Holcomb's passes just don't have enough zip on them.So JP was throwing to Reed? Is Reed a 1st team unit ? 2nd ? 3rd? :idunno:

[BuffaloBillsStampede]

This was just during a long ball drill it wasn't actual 7 on 7 or anything like that.

[BuffaloBillsStampede]

I have seen Reed on first and second units.

[ICE74129]

Just like OP, you're jumping to conclusions.

Are you gonna get back to changing your mind again?

No I'm not I stated fact. Justa I HAVE DONE IT MYSELF so don't tell me I dont know what DJ is doing. I know how these go and I know the fact surround them.

Not being a jerk but I do have more insight on how QB 'competitions' are ran. And I am telling you there is no such thing as a legit comp. I even went into more detail in a thread I started. DJ is a moron for making it so obvious with the first string rep distribution.

[justasportsfan]

No I'm not I stated fact. Justa I HAVE DONE IT MYSELF so don't tell me I dont know what DJ is doing. I know how these go and I know the fact surround them.

Not being a jerk but I do have more insight on how QB 'competitions' are ran. And I am telling you there is no such thing as a legit comp. I even went into more detail in a thread I started. DJ is a moron for making it so obvious with the first string rep distribution.
no, no I understand. At least what you have admitted it's your opinion. I can accept that. :up:

Unlike others who say "END OF Story"

[ICE74129]

no, no I understand. At least what you have admitted it's your opinion. I can accept that. :up:

Unlike others who say "END OF Story"

Agreed. I just know these stupid competitions and have raised the BS flag all offseason. Right now the facts are KH is being allowed more reps with the first team. No way thats a legit comp.

And it really makes me dissapointed not only in DJ but Marv as well.

[DraftBoy]

The offense is going to be very vanilla this year. Lots of runs, and many short crossing patterns to take adv of Holcomb's accuracy and lack of arm strength. Teams will blitz us like crazy bring 8 in the box and go man up on the outside daring us to beat them over the top. Its gonna be a long year boys.

[DraftBoy]

Agreed. I just know these stupid competitions and have raised the BS flag all offseason. Right now the facts are KH is being allowed more reps with the first team. No way thats a legit comp.

And it really makes me dissapointed not only in DJ but Marv as well.


It makes sense though. I said from the beginning JP is not a Marv guy and there is no way he was gonna let him get a good shot at the job. KH is this year, look for us to go QB Day 1 in the draft next year. Marv will get his Kelly.

[justasportsfan]

Agreed. I just know these stupid competitions and have raised the BS flag all offseason. Right now the facts are KH is being allowed more reps with the first team. No way thats a legit comp.

And it really makes me dissapointed not only in DJ but Marv as well.I don't know man. There's more camps . I'll have to wait and see how that pans out before I start calling out Marv and Dick.

[Bulldog]

Actually that ball never hit Reed's hands. If it had been a faster guy it might have but he dove and didn't touch it. I agree 100% with everything you said though. In a game situation I would want JP throwing a deep ball no matter who did better in practice. Holcomb's passes just don't have enough zip on them.

Actually, I was standing right there on the fence, and the ball clearly went off of Reeds hands. Most of us watching thought that Reed should have had it. I'll reserve my judgements on the QB's until the preseason games roll around. And even then, it's still hard to get a real accurate read on them. The bottom line is one of these guys needs to be named the starter sooner or later, or neither one will have any time to establish any kind of chemistry with the WR's.

[ICE74129]

It makes sense though. I said from the beginning JP is not a Marv guy and there is no way he was gonna let him get a good shot at the job. KH is this year, look for us to go QB Day 1 in the draft next year. Marv will get his Kelly.

Yeah but DB that shows a lack of character and class on Marv and DJ's part. I know everyone loves marv but it shows a lack of both to do this to JP. All the kid has done is stay here 2 offseasons in a row and bust his butt.

If he doesnt' want him, trade him. Let the kid have a legit shot at a career somewhere else.

Marv is also going to need to look at the other rookies in this league. he isnt' going to have is 'Kelly' if he doesnt' play him from day one and stick with him. not only that, holcomb isn't getting us a superbowl, so he is a waste of time regardless of who is surrounding him. Nall MAYBE...but not holcomb.

Marv needs to cut the crap and trade the kid if that is how he feels about him.

[ICE74129]

I don't know man. There's more camps . I'll have to wait and see how that pans out before I start calling out Marv and Dick.

Oh I agree but so far it doesn't look good for JP. I guess we will know when the preseason game comes up on the 12th. If holcomb gets all the snaps with the first string JP wont' win this comp period. If they get = but holcombs plays are set up to his strengths and JP's isn't, it = the same thing.

I just don't feel Marv and DJ want JP regardless of what he does. I think most of us feel JP wins this comp going away if all things are equal, but they won't allow it to be.

[justasportsfan]

Oh I agree but so far it doesn't look good for JP. I guess we will know when the preseason game comes up on the 12th. If holcomb gets all the snaps with the first string JP wont' win this comp period. If they get = but holcombs plays are set up to his strengths and JP's isn't, it = the same thing.

I just don't feel Marv and DJ want JP regardless of what he does. I think most of us feel JP wins this comp going away if all things are equal, but they won't allow it to be.
KH for the most part played w/ the 2nd and 3rd unit at camp last year. He ended up being the starter.

[EricStratton]

Why on earth should Marv trade him since he’s under contract for a fairly cheap number and we don’t have a legit back-up QB other then him (if in fact KH wins the job).

It’s not Marv’s job to help out his career on any other team but the Bills and to do what you are asking without having a legit back-up plan would be gross incompetence on his part.

[ICE74129]

KH for the most part played w/ the 2nd and 3rd unit at camp last year. He ended up being the starter.

Only because we had a moron for a coach. It isn't the same justa

[Earthquake Enyart]

Why on earth should Marv trade him since he’s under contract for a fairly cheap number and we don’t have a legit back-up QB other then him (if in fact KH wins the job).

It’s not Marv’s job to help out his career on any other team but the Bills and to do what you are asking without having a legit back-up plan would be gross incompetence on his part.
He tried to trade him in the off season but couldn't get anything for him.

[ICE74129]

Why on earth should Marv trade him since he’s under contract for a fairly cheap number and we don’t have a legit back-up QB other then him (if in fact KH wins the job).

It’s not Marv’s job to help out his career on any other team but the Bills and to do what you are asking without having a legit back-up plan would be gross incompetence on his part.

I thought Marv was all about character? Not so if he is sticking it to losman. and we have Nall as a backup so that ends that argument.

[ICE74129]

He tried to trade him in the off season but couldn't get anything for him.

Link? All rumors were proven untrue from what I remember.

[EricStratton]

I thought Marv was all about character? Not so if he is sticking it to losman. and we have Nall as a backup so that ends that argument.


How's Nall doing right now?


I’m not saying Marv and Dick aren’t screwing JP (I don’t think that’s the case but even if they are) but they have no obligation to trade a guy just so he can get a new start.

Teams use their players until they don’t need them anymore, that’s the nature of the business. If they were to trade him at this stage without a healthy 2 or any 3 they would be placing the player above the team.

[DraftBoy]

Yeah but DB that shows a lack of character and class on Marv and DJ's part. I know everyone loves marv but it shows a lack of both to do this to JP. All the kid has done is stay here 2 offseasons in a row and bust his butt.

If he doesnt' want him, trade him. Let the kid have a legit shot at a career somewhere else.

Marv is also going to need to look at the other rookies in this league. he isnt' going to have is 'Kelly' if he doesnt' play him from day one and stick with him. not only that, holcomb isn't getting us a superbowl, so he is a waste of time regardless of who is surrounding him. Nall MAYBE...but not holcomb.

Marv needs to cut the crap and trade the kid if that is how he feels about him.


I dont think it shows anything of the sort. They are using the players they see best fit in the right posistions bc you dont agree with them dont start challenging their character. Nobody is doing anything to JP, if he was good enough he would have the job. Remeber we are relying on what we see read at practice. None of us see the locker room time and how they act as teammates, nobody knows about film study, or knowledge of the playbook. Im willing to give Jauron the benefit of the doubt for the time being. Jp was risky pick when we took him, he was either a boom or bust, he will never be an avg everyday starting QB, and everybody knew that coming in. He was either gonna be a great one, or gonna be nothing. Cry as you want about not getting a fair shot, but in my book you have to earn one and to this point he has done nothing in no game to deserve that kind of an honor. I expect nothing from this season so be it JP, KH, Nall or Woodbury that starts Ill root for them and do as I always do looking towards to the 2007 Draft, specifically the QB Class.

[Bill Cody]

This is nothing more than Ice lining up his excuses early in case his boy can't cut it. Pathetic really.

[HHURRICANE]

This whole post cracks me up.
Kelly Holcomb took the lead because he was better. But he played with the first string line all night.

The back up OL looked like crap. Funny isn't that the line JP was playing with. Maybe he didn't have as much time to throw the ball.

Call me crazy.

[BillsFever21]

Holcomb isn't gonna be taking us anywhere. We're not a playoff team this year even with a great QB let alone KH.

It's a worthless and wasted season with Holcomb under center. It will be a very long and boring season if he's the QB too.

We wouldn't be winning many games and we also wouldn't be improving for the future. If he's the starter it's because Jauron and Levy don't have the guts and patience to work with a young QB.

If this is the case then there isn't any reason in drafting a QB either. We can just play Holcomb for the next 4 years until he's 38 years old and keep missing the playoffs.

Holcomb wasn't that much better then JP last year and it was JP's first year as a starter. He can only improve. We saw the best that Holcomb can give us and that's not good enough. We haven't came close to seeing the best that JP can give us and he wasn't far behind Holcomb in the first place.

If Holcomb wins this job it will end any enthusiasm I had or will have for this season. It will be a wasted season and I won't even be excited to watch the games. It won't be much fun to watch a losing team with a 33 year old career backup QB losing the games.

Only in Buffalo would Kelly Holcomb even be considered as the starting QB. He wouldn't get the gig on any other team.

If JP isn't what the Bills are looking for then play Nall. I could live with that. It doesn't make any sense to play Holcomb though.

We need a young QB that this young offensive unit can grow together with. Holcomb isn't that player. By the time we even had a chance to find that QB these guys will be veterans and/or FA's and we would have their replacements in here.