The favored reps for holcomb with the first string shows

[ICE74129]

I tried this offseason to explain how that works and will try to do so in more depth.

# of reps with the first string is an early indicator of who the coach wants as his QB. To me I am suprised DJ is allowing a 60-40 or 70-30 ratio of holcomb to JP with the first string. It makes, what may be, his personal prefrence way too obvious.

QB competitions are ALWAYS geared to allow one guy a better shot at winning the job. So far it looks like holcomb is DJ's choice.

for a true QB competition to yield a true winner the following has to happen...

Exact same amount of reps with the first string with the exact same personel. Not 'Well we had the starting OL but our 5th and 6th WR's'. Same line, same personel period.

Exact same plays ran under the exact same conditions. IE a 3 wide set against a cover 2 D. Same play, same peronel on both sides of the ball. Now to get a true measure, one guy can do it during the day, the other at night.

Those are the very basics on how you can truely have a QB competition. Bottom line, you can't. There is no way to simulate the exact same situations over and over. But to clearly give KH more reps with the first string while JP is running for his life with scrubs for an OL....that is way too obvious and there is no way DJ can say with any honesty this is a true QB competition.

IMHO DJ is going to take a DC aproach to it and make sure he has a guy that aledgedly (I guess he hasn't seen holcomb last year) won't put the team in danger by taking chances and go with holcomb. It is also MHO that he is listening to veterans like MM did.

I hope I am wrong. This is a rebuilding year/ Team and we don't need to waste valuable reps on a 33 year old career backup. This thinking flys in the face of everything they said and did this offseason.

[justasportsfan]

Maybe the coaches are practicing JP's decisions under pressure which is why he's taking snaps w/ the 2nd unit. :snicker:

[ICE74129]

Maybe the coaches are practicing JP's decisions under pressure which is why he's taking snaps w/ the 2nd unit. :snicker:

LOL. I can see where you are going and understand but the bottom line is, its a waste of time. He wont' be playing with that crap ol and the bottom WR's on a full time basis. He needs to have more reps with the guys he will have at his disposal.

[Patti120]

Maybe the coaches are practicing JP's decisions under pressure which is why he's taking snaps w/ the 2nd unit. :snicker:

Wishful thinking

[bledslow]

Why do ppl worry about future seasons and future games from those seasons that will not be played until years from now??? Worry about the here and NOW,holcomb is clearly better then loserman.

33 years old at the qb position is not old.Especially for a guy who has not taking beatings from prior seasons.

There is almost no such thing as rebuilding in todays nfl,teams can have drastic turn-arounds in ONE season to the next.And you never know if the supposed good/great teams will have terrible injuries.Brady can get hurt at any moment. And playing losman now does not guaranteed he will be better next year or the year after.I seen many times when a guy benefited from sitting for a few years,i think losman needs even more years(i truely believe he will never get IT actually) --jp losman is mike mcmahon part two.

[mayotm]

Why do ppl worry about future seasons and future games from those seasons that will not be played until years from now??? Worry about the here and NOW,holcomb is clearly better then loserman.

33 years old at the qb position is not old.Especially for a guy who has not taking beatings from prior seasons.

There is almost no such thing as rebuilding in todays nfl,teams can have drastic turn-arounds in ONE season to the next.And you never know if the supposed good/great teams will have terrible injuries.Brady can get hurt at any moment. And playing losman now does not guaranteed he will be better next year or the year after.I seen many times when a guy benefited from sitting for a few years,i think losman needs even more years(i truely believe he will never get IT actually) --jp losman is mike mcmahon part two.You're right, playing Losman now does not guarentee that he will be better in the future. However, it does allow the coaching staff to assess if he is the QB of the future, or if they need to head in a different direction. The eight games Losman played last year simply isn't enough for a fair assessment.

[ShadowHawk7]

I tried this offseason to explain how that works and will try to do so in more depth.

# of reps with the first string is an early indicator of who the coach wants as his QB. To me I am suprised DJ is allowing a 60-40 or 70-30 ratio of holcomb to JP with the first string. It makes, what may be, his personal prefrence way too obvious.

QB competitions are ALWAYS geared to allow one guy a better shot at winning the job. So far it looks like holcomb is DJ's choice.

for a true QB competition to yield a true winner the following has to happen...

Exact same amount of reps with the first string with the exact same personel. Not 'Well we had the starting OL but our 5th and 6th WR's'. Same line, same personel period.

Exact same plays ran under the exact same conditions. IE a 3 wide set against a cover 2 D. Same play, same peronel on both sides of the ball. Now to get a true measure, one guy can do it during the day, the other at night.

Those are the very basics on how you can truely have a QB competition. Bottom line, you can't. There is no way to simulate the exact same situations over and over. But to clearly give KH more reps with the first string while JP is running for his life with scrubs for an OL....that is way too obvious and there is no way DJ can say with any honesty this is a true QB competition.

IMHO DJ is going to take a DC aproach to it and make sure he has a guy that aledgedly (I guess he hasn't seen holcomb last year) won't put the team in danger by taking chances and go with holcomb. It is also MHO that he is listening to veterans like MM did.

I hope I am wrong. This is a rebuilding year/ Team and we don't need to waste valuable reps on a 33 year old career backup. This thinking flys in the face of everything they said and did this offseason.
dammit. :mad:

[ICE74129]

You're right, playing Losman now does not guarentee that he will be better in the future. However, it does allow the coaching staff to assess if he is the QB of the future, or if they need to head in a different direction. The eight games Losman played last year simply isn't enough for a fair assessment.

Agreed. We know what holcomb is, a career backup. Time to decide if JP is the guy or not. If not then we move on this next offseason.

[TedMock]

Hopefully the ratio doesn't actually get up to 60/40. So far, it seems as if snaps are fairly even. One guy ends up getting 1 more here or there. For example, last night, Holcomb got 17 and Losman got 16. At least that's what I've read. 51/49 isn't bad. I've also read in some where Losman had 1 or 2 more. I, obviously like everyone else, would love to know what the exact count is each night. If the snaps do indeed start getting out of the 50/50 range (give or take) then we certainly know who the coaches are leaning toward.

[acehole]

I follow the thinking...but I dont agree with the final outcome. I think JP will separate himeself in pre season where Holcom will show his limitations. If Holcom is in there they will play 8 in the box all day. You just cant do that with JP.

Vin


I tried this offseason to explain how that works and will try to do so in more depth.

# of reps with the first string is an early indicator of who the coach wants as his QB. To me I am suprised DJ is allowing a 60-40 or 70-30 ratio of holcomb to JP with the first string. It makes, what may be, his personal prefrence way too obvious.

QB competitions are ALWAYS geared to allow one guy a better shot at winning the job. So far it looks like holcomb is DJ's choice.

for a true QB competition to yield a true winner the following has to happen...

Exact same amount of reps with the first string with the exact same personel. Not 'Well we had the starting OL but our 5th and 6th WR's'. Same line, same personel period.

Exact same plays ran under the exact same conditions. IE a 3 wide set against a cover 2 D. Same play, same peronel on both sides of the ball. Now to get a true measure, one guy can do it during the day, the other at night.

Those are the very basics on how you can truely have a QB competition. Bottom line, you can't. There is no way to simulate the exact same situations over and over. But to clearly give KH more reps with the first string while JP is running for his life with scrubs for an OL....that is way too obvious and there is no way DJ can say with any honesty this is a true QB competition.

IMHO DJ is going to take a DC aproach to it and make sure he has a guy that aledgedly (I guess he hasn't seen holcomb last year) won't put the team in danger by taking chances and go with holcomb. It is also MHO that he is listening to veterans like MM did.

I hope I am wrong. This is a rebuilding year/ Team and we don't need to waste valuable reps on a 33 year old career backup. This thinking flys in the face of everything they said and did this offseason.

[YardRat]

If TedMock is right about the snap count, than the point of this thread is moot.

[justasportsfan]

If TedMock is right about the snap count, than the point of this thread is moot.

it's true. ICE is the only one making a big stink out of it because of the last 2 practices. If JP ends up taking more snaps the nest few practices w/ the first unit (who knows who the first unit is anyways), what will he come up w/ next?

[Goobylal]

Yeah, I haven't heard that one QB is getting more 1st team snaps.

[Michael82]

Yeah, I haven't heard that one QB is getting more 1st team snaps.
it just seems like it because for now, Holcomb is starting out with the starters first each day. They are pretty even, but it seems like Holcomb starts out the day.

[shelby]

Can y'all say incentive?

[billsburgh]

as I've said before the way this competition is being played out is unfair to all the qb's involved. each guy should get a whole day at a time with the first unit and the next guy gets the next day. 3 or 4 snaps at a time when most of those are running plays is not the way to judge a qb.

[ICE74129]

Ther should have been more two a days. Not hard practices, but more like a walkthough. You could have divided up the reps more evenly then.


I tried to tell you guys, there just aren't enough reps to have a two way comp. Now immagine if Nall was still in this!

Sorry Dick Jauron is WRONG in the way he is handling this. Pick one guy, go with him and be done with it.

[TedMock]

it's true. ICE is the only one making a big stink out of it because of the last 2 practices. If JP ends up taking more snaps the nest few practices w/ the first unit (who knows who the first unit is anyways), what will he come up w/ next?

I was right up until yesterday. I went online this morning, and apparently Holcomb's pass attempts for yesterday were about twice as many as JP's. A friend was there and he told me that the total snap count was in-line, but JP handed off a lot more - like twice as much.

As of about 5:30 PM last night, that news wasn't posted on any of the sites I looked at. As of 10:00 AM this morning it was on the Bills Chris Brown blog.

I'm not sure how to take the skewed pass attempts yesterday. Either A. The coaches REALLY want Holcomb to be the guy, or B. Losman has proven that he can throw, and the coaches are still trying to figure out Holcomb. I've seen it go both ways in my day. I've never been good enough to play or coach at a D1 level, so I'm certainly no expert. I did play for 14 years (little league - college), and coached for four seasons (12-14 year olds), so my experience is a very limited one to small college (AA) play, and junior high & freshman level coaching. I'm sure things are handled differently on the higher levels. They'd have to be. I'm very curious as to what the coaches are thinking.

[ICE74129]

I was right up until yesterday. I went online this morning, and apparently Holcomb's pass attempts for yesterday were about twice as many as JP's. A friend was there and he told me that the total snap count was in-line, but JP handed off a lot more - like twice as much.

As of about 5:30 PM last night, that news wasn't posted on any of the sites I looked at. As of 10:00 AM this morning it was on the Bills Chris Brown blog.

I'm not sure how to take the skewed pass attempts yesterday. Either A. The coaches REALLY want Holcomb to be the guy, or B. Losman has proven that he can throw, and the coaches are still trying to figure out Holcomb. I've seen it go both ways in my day. I've never been good enough to play or coach at a D1 level, so I'm certainly no expert. I did play for 14 years (little league - college), and coached for four seasons (12-14 year olds), so my experience is a very limited one to small college (AA) play, and junior high & freshman level coaching. I'm sure things are handled differently on the higher levels. They'd have to be. I'm very curious as to what the coaches are thinking.

Its not different, only the pro teams want you to think so. Football is football. When it comes to on the field, its all the same.

I said earlier this offseason, the other way you screw one guy is to have him not pass as much as the other guy. Sure they both got 20 reps. Holcomb gets 12 pass plays, JP gets 5. Sorry, you can't win a QB 'competition' that way

[TedMock]

I'm with you in that I don't like the QB competition, but I do think it's different on various levels. A coach should never handle a situation with a 12 year old the same way he would with a 19-year old, etc. Situations vary with each level, but they also vary with each player. Even QB's (or other positions) on the same level, quite often need to be handled differently. Each player is of different mindset. The great coaches learn how to handle each individual in order to create the team concept. Some guys want an in-your-face coach, and respond to that. Some want open competion, some just need to be talked to quietly on the side. It's the nature of the person as an individual. I for one, always wanted an up-front coach. Yell at me, tell me I suck, if that's how I'm playing. I never liked coddling. However, I know some very good players who don't respond well to in-your-face coaching.

[Mitchy moo]

I'm with you in that I don't like the QB competition, but I do think it's different on various levels. A coach should never handle a situation with a 12 year old the same way he would with a 19-year old, etc. Situations vary with each level, but they also vary with each player. Even QB's (or other positions) on the same level, quite often need to be handled differently. Each player is of different mindset. The great coaches learn how to handle each individual in order to create the team concept. Some guys want an in-your-face coach, and respond to that. Some want open competion, some just need to be talked to quietly on the side. It's the nature of the person as an individual. I for one, always wanted an up-front coach. Yell at me, tell me I suck, if that's how I'm playing. I never liked coddling. However, I know some very good players who don't respond well to in-your-face coaching.

I think that each player has his own potential and in the right system based on what they can accomplish, they can do well. I personally think that they are motivating JP, he wants to play QB in the worst way. Redirect that fire to burn the opponents and not the team around him, that will be the trick.