Mike.....or anyone else going to camp....NEW ASSIGNMENT

[Earthquake Enyart]

I want an exact count of the number of reps JP and Holcomb each get with the first unit.

[ICE74129]

Agreed. I know mikey did a check Wednesday I think and holcomb had about 65% of the reps.

[LtBillsFan66]

I heard it was more like 61.2% of reps.

[THATHURMANATOR]

It was actually 58.3 in favor of Holcomb.

[patmoran2006]

they been getting equal snaps pretty much.
But holcomb has taken the FIRST set of snaps, in EVERY practice.

[Patrick76777]

When I was there they switched every play.

Guys were moving in and out all the time and I didn't pay attention to who else was in there.

[THATHURMANATOR]

but you hate JP though!

[LtBillsFan66]

When I was there they switched every play.

Guys were moving in and out all the time and I didn't pay attention to who else was in there.
But who was first!?! JP's fragile ego could have been destroyed if KH took the very first snap.

Maybe they go in alphabetical order...

[Patrick76777]

But who was first!?! JP's fragile ego could have been destroyed if KH took the very first snap.

Maybe they go in alphabetical order...


I think you just figured this one out.

I feel like we're in some overly PC 1st grade class where every kid gets a turn at going first so as not to hurt any feelings.

[Michael82]

It's hard to tell because they switch so many players out soo many times. What do you considering reps with the starting unit? the offensive line, RBs, TEs, and WRs? Or just the OL and WRs? Or just the WRs? Or just the OL? Or just the TEs, RBs and WRs?

[EricStratton]

During a water break who get's to have a drink first?

That should tell the tale right there.

[Michael82]

During a water break who get's to have a drink first?

That should tell the tale right there.
:rofl:

[DraftBoy]

If they are splitting the rep near 60-40 I cant see the complaints about it not being legit. Nobody is ever gonna run a 50-50 split bc guys get into a rythm for a few plays and it makes no sense to stop them in the middle, TC is made for that reason. To see what patterns develop.

[ICE74129]

It's hard to tell because they switch so many players out soo many times. What do you considering reps with the starting unit? the offensive line, RBs, TEs, and WRs? Or just the OL and WRs? Or just the WRs? Or just the OL? Or just the TEs, RBs and WRs?

All of it. You can't have the starting OL and then your 6th and 7th WR's out there not running routes etc.

Bottom line Mikey is its more and more obvious they want holcomb. It = disaster this year. I just hope after an 0-3 start putting us 0-3 in the division and killing any chance at an AFCE title, the 'veterans' ***** and whine as much to get holcomb outta there as they did last year to get JP benched.

[Michael82]

If they are splitting the rep near 60-40 I cant see the complaints about it not being legit. Nobody is ever gonna run a 50-50 split bc guys get into a rythm for a few plays and it makes no sense to stop them in the middle, TC is made for that reason. To see what patterns develop.
It's probably near 60-40, but sometimes it seems like Holcomb gets the whole day to work with the entire starting unit and Losman doesn't get to work with the whole unit at all.

[LtBillsFan66]

Who have the prime corner locker?

[DraftBoy]

It's probably near 60-40, but sometimes it seems like Holcomb gets the whole day to work with the entire starting unit and Losman doesn't get to work with the whole unit at all.


You've said it in your reports, he has looked better in recent days which to me says he is developing a good cohesivness with that unit, to take him off of it, would be stupid imo. Holcomb that is.

[ICE74129]

If they are splitting the rep near 60-40 I cant see the complaints about it not being legit. Nobody is ever gonna run a 50-50 split bc guys get into a rythm for a few plays and it makes no sense to stop them in the middle, TC is made for that reason. To see what patterns develop.

I disagree 100%. its 50/50 with the starters or its nothing. So you are saying X QB comes in, develops a rythm so you keep him in? If so then pick one guy and move on, because the other guys in this fake competition suffer and have no legit shot to win.

You are right its all about TC and building a rythm with each other. so if you do that then on day one HK gets 60% and on day 2 JP gets 60%. But so far it seems KH starts off with the first string every day. That isn't a LEGIT competition.

[ICE74129]

You've said it in your reports, he has looked better in recent days which to me says he is developing a good cohesivness with that unit, to take him off of it, would be stupid imo.

So what happened to a legit competition? Of course the guy that gets most of the reps with the first string is going to devleop those things...HE HAD ALL THE REPS! Let jp have all of them for a week straight and tell me then how he looks.

sorry it was a lie and BS from the begining. Marv has shown a total lack of class by allowing this to happen. If this is going on he lied to the fans, the players and JP/Nall and that is unprofessional and classless. I don't care what he did as a HC.

There is no way around it and no way to defend it.

[DraftBoy]

I disagree 100%. its 50/50 with the starters or its nothing. So you are saying X QB comes in, develops a rythm so you keep him in? If so then pick one guy and move on, because the other guys in this fake competition suffer and have no legit shot to win.

You are right its all about TC and building a rythm with each other. so if you do that then on day one HK gets 60% and on day 2 JP gets 60%. But so far it seems KH starts off with the first string every day. That isn't a LEGIT competition.


Thats bs, under your system youd take out a guy who looks likes he's developing a rythm with the starting unit. Why the hell would anybody do that? Aside from putting at risk your entire season, you risk alienating your players. You put the guy who looks like he is the most comfortable, confident, and best with the 1st team out there, and see if the 2nd team guy can beat him. A 50-50 comp is IMPOSSIBLE! Nobody would ever do it, bc it makes no sense. You as a football coach I hope would know that.

[Michael82]

You've said it in your reports, he has looked better in recent days which to me says he is developing a good cohesivness with that unit, to take him off of it, would be stupid imo. Holcomb that is.
yeah but lately it seems that JP is frustrated because he's not getting the same cohesiveness. He has said damn it and **** a few times and just seems like he's pretty pissed off lately. You can tell that the switching in and out is definitely getting to him.

Oh and another thing....sometimes they only have the QB do one play and then switch him right away for the QB. It also seems like JP is getting a lot of handoffs which bothers me too. If you let Holcomb start the drill, at least give Losman a chance to throw more than a couple balls.

[LtBillsFan66]

JP might be a bust. Time to face facts.

[DraftBoy]

So what happened to a legit competition? Of course the guy that gets most of the reps with the first string is going to devleop those things...HE HAD ALL THE REPS! Let jp have all of them for a week straight and tell me then how he looks.

sorry it was a lie and BS from the begining. Marv has shown a total lack of class by allowing this to happen. If this is going on he lied to the fans, the players and JP/Nall and that is unprofessional and classless. I don't care what he did as a HC.

There is no way around it and no way to defend it.


Where's your proof? Where are your numbers from prior to the Nall injury? Oh wait thats right you have none, so until that point, your arguments remain full of holes and false accusations bc your guy isnt getting the time you think he deserves for whatever excuse you choose to give him.

[DraftBoy]

yeah but lately it seems that JP is frustrated because he's not getting the same cohesiveness. He has said damn it and **** a few times and just seems like he's pretty pissed off lately. You can tell that the switching in and out is definitely getting to him.

Oh and another thing....sometimes they only have the QB do one play and then switch him right away for the QB. It also seems like JP is getting a lot of handoffs which bothers me too. If you let Holcomb start the drill, at least give Losman a chance to throw more than a couple balls.


His frustration level and use of curse words will do him no favors, he has a lot of growing up still to do and that much is evident. A big reason why he may be losing time and throwing plays to KH. I dont think Levy would ever allow for his QB to start yelling profanity in front of fans, he's real old school.

[DraftBoy]

JP might be a bust. Time to face facts.


Its a coin toss, he could turn it around but to this date has not showed what was needed to turn that corner. He has definetly not earned a fair comp, he needs to way overpreform KH to win the job.

[EricStratton]

Thats bs, under your system youd take out a guy who looks likes he's developing a rythm with the starting unit. Why the hell would anybody do that? Aside from putting at risk your entire season, you risk alienating your players. You put the guy who looks like he is the most comfortable, confident, and best with the 1st team out there, and see if the 2nd team guy can beat him. A 50-50 comp is IMPOSSIBLE! Nobody would ever do it, bc it makes no sense. You as a football coach I hope would know that.



This also goes to the fact that there are 60+ other guys trying to win jobs and develop in camp. There will be plays run for the purpose of seeing if a WR can get a break at the line or if a TE can run a ceratin route and the guy behind center doesn't matter.

There may also be drills run to see if the LB's get a good drop for a dump off pass or the CB's can get a good jamm at the line.

This isn't just about JP and KH, it's about the rest of the squad as well.

[Patrick76777]

He has said damn it and **** a few times and just seems like he's pretty pissed off lately. .


Maybe he's getting mad because he can't understand why he's over and under throwing so many WR's.

[justasportsfan]

But who was first!?! JP's fragile ego could have been destroyed if KH took the very first snap.

Maybe they go in alphabetical order...that day, JP got the first snap. I even told wys and Mike is seems like JP is getting more snaps.

Not long after that , JP was working with ALL the TE's while KH was working with the wrs. Fairchild was w/ JP the whole time.

Ya'll can read into that all you want.

[Michael82]

Maybe he's getting mad because he can't understand why he's over and under throwing so many WR's.
maybe he's getting mad because he sees that his plays seem to be much more spread open than Holcomb. Holcomb may be winning the job, but thats only because he checks off wayyyy too many times. The interesting thing is that Holcomb has throw wayy more INTs or should have been INTs.

[justasportsfan]

You've said it in your reports, he has looked better in recent days which to me says he is developing a good cohesivness with that unit, to take him off of it, would be stupid imo. Holcomb that is.Mikey is always at the concession stand.

[LtBillsFan66]

Mikey is always at the concession stand.
:rofl:

[DraftBoy]

This also goes to the fact that there are 60+ other guys trying to win jobs and develop in camp. There will be plays run for the purpose of seeing if a WR can get a break at the line or if a TE can run a ceratin route and the guy behind center doesn't matter.

There may also be drills run to see if the LB's get a good drop for a dump off pass or the CB's can get a good jamm at the line.

This isn't just about JP and KH, it's about the rest of the squad as well.


Stop lying this whole camp centers around the QB situation, why in this world would we try and look out for the welfare of the WHOLE team? That makes no sense at all, jeez ES!

[justasportsfan]

His frustration level and use of curse words will do him no favors, he has a lot of growing up still to do and that much is evident. A big reason why he may be losing time and throwing plays to KH. I dont think Levy would ever allow for his QB to start yelling profanity in front of fans, he's real old school.
JP is usually hard on himself. He will be the starter :up:

[ICE74129]

Its a coin toss, he could turn it around but to this date has not showed what was needed to turn that corner. He has definetly not earned a fair comp, he needs to way overpreform KH to win the job.

You can't earn anything with the odds stacked against you like that. I have tried to explain this many times. He isn't going to be allowed to win the competition period. I told you guys this from day one.


I have been part of this process myself coaching and I can tell you, they don't want him winning it. At least not at this point

[justasportsfan]

maybe he's getting mad because he sees that his plays seem to be much more spread open than Holcomb. Holcomb may be winning the job, but thats only because he checks off wayyyy too many times. The interesting thing is that Holcomb has throw wayy more INTs or should have been INTs.

That's for sure. JP was making completions from 10-03 out while KH started his dink and dunk off the bat. Who do you think has a higher percentage? KH.

[LtBillsFan66]

You can't earn anything with the odds stacked against you like that. I have tried to explain this many times. He isn't going to be allowed to win the competition period. I told you guys this from day one.


I have been part of this process myself coaching and I can tell you, they don't want him winning it. At least not at this point
Are you going to say that when it's 4th and 10 in Bills territory with less than a minute to play and the Bills are down by 4? That someone can't win with some adversity?

If JP was good, there would be no competition to begin with.

[ICE74129]

Where's your proof? Where are your numbers from prior to the Nall injury? Oh wait thats right you have none, so until that point, your arguments remain full of holes and false accusations bc your guy isnt getting the time you think he deserves for whatever excuse you choose to give him.

No DB I have ran these so called competitions. I have also explained in detail they are NEVER Legit and they are NEVER even. By all camp reports I am correct. The facts are there. The fans going aren't stupid and they are now starting to see it.

I'm sorry you are unwilling to accept I know exactly what I am talking about in regards to these dog and pony shows..err 'competitions' and the FACT those on this board at the practices are backing what I said would happen.

[justasportsfan]

You can't earn anything with the odds stacked against you like that. I have tried to explain this many times. He isn't going to be allowed to win the competition period. I told you guys this from day one.


I have been part of this process myself coaching and I can tell you, they don't want him winning it. At least not at this pointRelax , don't panic so soon like you did right after the draft. Right now our draft picks are looking great and we don't even have Whitner in yet.

"You gotta stay loose ya know, let the coolness get into your vertebrae".

[ICE74129]

His frustration level and use of curse words will do him no favors, he has a lot of growing up still to do and that much is evident. A big reason why he may be losing time and throwing plays to KH. I dont think Levy would ever allow for his QB to start yelling profanity in front of fans, he's real old school.

Really? Wow, I guess he should have benched Kelly, and Marino, Elway, Favre and the many many very successful QB's that got pissed and cussed should have been done away with.

Its starting to show more and more Marv isn't the right guy for the job

[ICE74129]

JP is usually hard on himself. He will be the starter :up:

Nah Marv, and DJ wont' let him be. just watch

[justasportsfan]

. By all camp reports I am correct. .by 2 camp reports. Not all. Oh you mean the last 2 practices? . There have been days when Jp was given more snaps w/ the first unit.

No one even know which is the first unit. No one even knows who is no. 2 wr.

[ICE74129]

Relax , don't panic so soon like you did right after the draft. Right now our draft picks are looking great and we don't even have Whitner in yet.

"You gotta stay loose ya know, let the coolness get into your vertebrae".

HA great saying. Nah seriously I had hoped they might at least fake a legit comp. Seems they aren't even willing to do that.

[Michael82]

Mikey is always at the concession stand.
i havent been there yet. :::

[justasportsfan]

i havent been there yet. :::
Oh crap. You're right. You have to pay for the food there.

I meant the tent or the place where all the merchandise are being sold where there are free food samples. :up:

[Gunzlingr]

After the practice, who do the hookers approach first?

[DraftBoy]

by 2 camp reports. Not all. Oh you mean the last 2 practices? . There have been days when Jp was given more snaps w/ the first unit.

No one even know which is the first unit. No one even knows who is no. 2 wr.


No Ice has clearly said "ALL" camp reports support his claim of this never was a real comp. You must be lying Justa.

[DraftBoy]

You can't earn anything with the odds stacked against you like that. I have tried to explain this many times. He isn't going to be allowed to win the competition period. I told you guys this from day one.


I have been part of this process myself coaching and I can tell you, they don't want him winning it. At least not at this point

Thats a crap post and you know it, he was handed the damn job last year and he fumbeled it, but all the sudden he should be handed it again, based on what? We know what he has done when handed the starting posistion, and it hasnt looked too good so far.

[justasportsfan]

You must be lying Justa.what's your point ?

[DraftBoy]

what's your point ?


sarcasm :oops:

[Earthquake Enyart]

It's hard to tell because they switch so many players out soo many times. What do you considering reps with the starting unit? the offensive line, RBs, TEs, and WRs? Or just the OL and WRs? Or just the WRs? Or just the OL? Or just the TEs, RBs and WRs?
DAMN IT MIKE I'M SICK OF YOUR LAME EXCUSES.

JUST COUNT DAMN IT.

[Mitchy moo]

After the practice, who do the hookers approach first?

A. Gibson, he hired them to hose him down.

[ICE74129]

Thats a crap post and you know it, he was handed the damn job last year and he fumbeled it, but all the sudden he should be handed it again, based on what? We know what he has done when handed the starting posistion, and it hasnt looked too good so far.

No its a completely factual post. I know you don't like it, but facts are facts. See here is the deal ONLY in Buffalo do fans ***** and whine about a QB being 'handed' a job. Kelly, marino, Elway and on and on and on were 'handed' jobs. After time they worked out fine.

Maybe JP would have too by the end of the year, but who knows? We had a puss for a HC. We also had a much crapier team than the 'veterans' wanted to admit. So there are many factors to be taken into account. Being 'handed' the job is the least of them.

And again you didn't address the FACTS of the post. NO Qb can win the job or EARN the job under the current conditions. When you only get 30% of the snaps or so with the first string or the other guy is allowed to get in a rythm and you aren't, you wont' win period.

There is no such thing a legit QB compeition. The facts are pileing up to back this.

[ICE74129]

DAMN IT MIKE I'M SICK OF YOUR LAME EXCUSES.

JUST COUNT DAMN IT.

Oh he is....'Natcho 1, natcho 2...' :bandwagon

[LtBillsFan66]

Nah Marv, and DJ wont' let him be. just watch
Why wouldn't they if they thought he was a better QB?

[ICE74129]

Why wouldn't they if they thought he was a better QB?

His lack of reps with the first string proves it. There is no way around this issue.

[justasportsfan]

Why wouldn't they if they thought he was a better QB?
KH has white hair like they do

[justasportsfan]

His lack of reps with the first string proves it. There is no way around this issue.
Someones gonna look stupid once JP takes snaps with the 1st unit at the camps coming.

[DraftBoy]

No its a completely factual post. I know you don't like it, but facts are facts. See here is the deal ONLY in Buffalo do fans ***** and whine about a QB being 'handed' a job. Kelly, marino, Elway and on and on and on were 'handed' jobs. After time they worked out fine.

Maybe JP would have too by the end of the year, but who knows? We had a puss for a HC. We also had a much crapier team than the 'veterans' wanted to admit. So there are many factors to be taken into account. Being 'handed' the job is the least of them.

And again you didn't address the FACTS of the post. NO Qb can win the job or EARN the job under the current conditions. When you only get 30% of the snaps or so with the first string or the other guy is allowed to get in a rythm and you aren't, you wont' win period.

There is no such thing a legit QB compeition. The facts are pileing up to back this.

You have no facts, except the ones you distort, its a 60-40 split which everybody agrees with. Not 70-30 that you claim. Also you have two total days of practice backing up your claims that KH is getting all the time with unit #1....what of the day before that? Im still waiting to hear what JP showed you in those games last year that he A) Deserves a fair com B) Should be given the starting job AGAIN for the second time. You saying JP was not given a shot to get into the rythm, but Mikey and many others from camp early one said everybody was getting pretty even time and not till recently has there been a disproportion in snaps with what team? Why do you think that is? Maybe somebody has emerged as the leader, and they want to see if the #2 QB can beat him out or not? You idea of QB competition is a far and extreme one which is neither logical or ever going to happen in this world. Thats why you can continue to claim you are right without truly being wrong, bc you created an impossible scenario of a QB competition.

[DraftBoy]

Someones gonna look stupid once JP takes snaps with the 1st unit at the camps coming.


He has taken reps, Ice just chooses to ignore those facts...its easy then to prove your point, when you choose to selectively input only those facts which fit your argument.

[justasportsfan]

He has taken reps, Ice just chooses to ignore those facts...its easy then to prove your point, when you choose to selectively input only those facts which fit your argument.the last time you argued, you ended up right and ICe was wrong. I hope you're right again :up:

[DraftBoy]

the last time you argued, you ended up right and ICe was wrong. I hope you're right again :up:


When was that? I argue with alot of people...Icant remeber this one

[ICE74129]

You have no facts, except the ones you distort, its a 60-40 split which everybody agrees with. Not 70-30 that you claim. Also you have two total days of practice backing up your claims that KH is getting all the time with unit #1....what of the day before that? Im still waiting to hear what JP showed you in those games last year that he A) Deserves a fair com B) Should be given the starting job AGAIN for the second time. You saying JP was not given a shot to get into the rythm, but Mikey and many others from camp early one said everybody was getting pretty even time and not till recently has there been a disproportion in snaps with what team? Why do you think that is? Maybe somebody has emerged as the leader, and they want to see if the #2 QB can beat him out or not? You idea of QB competition is a far and extreme one which is neither logical or ever going to happen in this world. Thats why you can continue to claim you are right without truly being wrong, bc you created an impossible scenario of a QB competition.

No I base my knowledge off of having ran them and for successful programs. I also base it off of learning from coaches much better than me. Its a joke and a lie, there is no such thing as a legit QB competition.

See here is where you lose credibility, you don't agree because its 'Me' saying it. As much as you personally don't like me, it doesn't change the fact I know how this process works. its too bad you can't put aside personal dislike and distain to listen to someone who knows.

[ICE74129]

Someones gonna look stupid once JP takes snaps with the 1st unit at the camps coming.

No I won't. Can they change their minds? sure. I doubt they will, but they always can. IF they do you will start seeing the snap ratio go the other way.

[ICE74129]

the last time you argued, you ended up right and ICe was wrong. I hope you're right again :up:

Hey DB is a very sharp guy, but his personal distain for me is blocking him from accepting info on an issue I know about, moreso than most here. I lose arguements from time to time, we all do, but I know how this process works and so far DJ is doing it EXACTLY the way I have predicted it would go.

Again, can it change? yes. IMHO it is DJ's nature and marvs to go 'safe' and that= holcomb. Now when we go 1-4 to start the season, I hope they wake up.

[DraftBoy]

No I base my knowledge off of having ran them and for successful programs. I also base it off of learning from coaches much better than me. Its a joke and a lie, there is no such thing as a legit QB competition.

See here is where you lose credibility, you don't agree because its 'Me' saying it. As much as you personally don't like me, it doesn't change the fact I know how this process works. its too bad you can't put aside personal dislike and distain to listen to someone who knows.

What successful programs have you run these for? Im waiting for that answer...Im sorry but I dont consider pop warner football running a successful program, also you continue to assume that you are the only one here who has ever coached football in there entire lives.

I dont lose any credibility, whether I personally like you or not, is not a point. The point is that you continually distort facts and when called out on it, make no effort to backup your false claims bc you know they are false. You create these elaborate conspiracy theories about the team having it out for one player, bc to you he is our possible savior and you refuse to believe anybody else could be successful but he (Correction: You acknowledge Nall too). You make up this ficticous scenario of what a fair QB comp should be fully knowing that it could never happen bc it was essentially ruin the team for the season, bc they would have a QB, but no cohesiveness or consistency. And you would alienate probably both your QB's and many of your veteran players.

[DraftBoy]

Hey DB is a very sharp guy, but his personal distain for me is blocking him from accepting info on an issue I know about, moreso than most here. I lose arguements from time to time, we all do, but I know how this process works and so far DJ is doing it EXACTLY the way I have predicted it would go.




I appreciate the compliment, and dont sell yourself short, but the ignorance rising from that post hilarious. You have in one post dismissed anybody else opinion bc DJ isnt going to follow this impossible QB comp you said it should be. Come on now, be serious.

[ICE74129]

What successful programs have you run these for? Im waiting for that answer...Im sorry but I dont consider pop warner football running a successful program, also you continue to assume that you are the only one here who has ever coached football in there entire lives.

I dont lose any credibility, whether I personally like you or not, is not a point. The point is that you continually distort facts and when called out on it, make no effort to backup your false claims bc you know they are false. You create these elaborate conspiracy theories about the team having it out for one player, bc to you he is our possible savior and you refuse to believe anybody else could be successful but he (Correction: You acknowledge Nall too). You make up this ficticous scenario of what a fair QB comp should be fully knowing that it could never happen bc it was essentially ruin the team for the season, bc they would have a QB, but no cohesiveness or consistency. And you would alienate probably both your QB's and many of your veteran players.

As I said before I'm not saying where I coach. To do so on a public message board is pure stupidity. Feel free to insert the 'see you don't coach' crap now. Its expected, but I don't care. And if there are other legit coaches on here, they know I am 100% correct on these issues. And BTW, My players that felt 'alienated' by my process, didn't seem to pan out because they didn't have a TEAM attitude to work with. Funny how that worked out. It is more than clear though Marv still has some house cleaning to do.

You guys keep talking pop warner. I have coached HS and College as a QB coach and OC as well. Again, I have ran these, I know how they go and I also know when I was told to make sure X QB won per HC's instructions. And yeah you follow them or you get canned.

Here is the deal, you talk Cohesiveness. But you fail to realise WINNING or improving builds that. You think putting the most liked QB out there does that. Many hated Jim Kelly. Thrurman couldn't stand his butt playing together. But they did it and mended things later. it isn't about who you like, its about putting a guy out there and developing together that when ON THE FIELD things work.

I have only one savior and its not a football player. As for as JP goes, I have a severe issue with a kid getting it stuck to him the way he has considering how much he loves the game, has embraced the city and worked his butt off.

there is a way to make it more legit. You say my situation is fantasy, I say its the very basics to make sure a LEGIT comp is done. Now if you are saying my situation is fantasy, then you must admit there is no such thing as a legit competition. Then if that is the case you must admit its all crap and Marv/ DJ flat lied about the situation and never intended on giving JP a shot.

[ICE74129]

I appreciate the compliment, and dont sell yourself short, but the ignorance rising from that post hilarious. You have in one post dismissed anybody else opinion bc DJ isnt going to follow this impossible QB comp you said it should be. Come on now, be serious.

If its impossible then I don't know how I was able to do it. Or other coaches as well.

but ignore that. If my scenario is impossible, then you must admit there is no such thing as LEGIT competition. And if you admit that, then you admit the coaches tilt it to favor one QB. Which they are starting to do.

DB you can't have it both ways.



Now completely out of the way, YES my scenario can be done, but you never asked HOW or WHY. Its simple, College and HS have less plays than the pros. So YES I can run the same plays, with the same situation, with the same players with two different QB's. You split them during two a days. But then again I admit fully we didn't have a 600 page playbook. But YES it can be done and YES the first 3 weeks of camp DJ could have done the same thing to a much lesser extent.

[DraftBoy]

As I said before I'm not saying where I coach. To do so on a public message board is pure stupidity.
You guys keep talking pop warner. I have coached HS and College as a QB coach and OC as well. Again, I have ran these, I know how they go and I also know when I was told to make sure X QB won per HC's instructions. And yeah you follow them or you get canned.

Here is the deal, you talk Cohesiveness. But you fail to realise WINNING or improving builds that. You think putting the most liked QB out there does that. Many hated Jim Kelly. Thrurman couldn't stand his butt playing together. But they did it and mended things later. it isn't about who you like, its about putting a guy out there and developing together that when ON THE FIELD things work.

I have only one savior and its not a football player. As for as JP goes, I have a severe issue with a kid getting it stuck to him the way he has considering how much he loves the game, has embraced the city and worked his butt off.

there is a way to make it more legit. You say my situation is fantasy, I say its the very basics to make sure a LEGIT comp is done. Now if you are saying my situation is fantasy, then you must admit there is no such thing as a legit competition. Then if that is the case you must admit its all crap and Marv/ DJ flat lied about the situation and never intended on giving JP a shot.

Which one is it Ice, are you going to tell us or not? I believe you coached, but as far as an OC at a collegiate program, well maybe but thats neither here nor there.

Yes I agree winning breeds cohesiveness but how do you plan to win when you spent all offseason concentrated on making sure you rotate your QB 50/50 and ignoring other things? Also the QB will not have the same type of timing with his WR as KH is developing currently with our WRs. As for the kid getting it stuck to him, had he preformed last season there wouldnt be any question as to this year.
I say and will always say your way is fantasy, but I think the way Dj is running it is truly legit. I think one QB needs to emerge and begin to slowly get more reps than the others (about 10%). That way you can see what he will likely look like and see if timing and such develops, and also you get to see what the 2nd team kid can do when faced with adversary, and also does he bring up the lesser talent around him to a higher level? By all reports JP is not doing that at all at this point.

NONE OF THE QBS ON THIS ROSTER ARE THE ANSWER, THE ANSWER LIES IN THE 07 OFFSEASON. But we have to have one of the current QB's be our starter for this year.

[DraftBoy]

Now completely out of the way, YES my scenario can be done, but you never asked HOW or WHY. Its simple, College and HS have less plays than the pros. So YES I can run the same plays, with the same situation, with the same players with two different QB's. You split them during two a days. But then again I admit fully we didn't have a 600 page playbook. But YES it can be done and YES the first 3 weeks of camp DJ could have done the same thing to a much lesser extent.


Thanks for the extra points, it may very well be possible in a small scale at a HS or lower college, but in no way is it on the pro level. Thanks again.

[LtBillsFan66]

Ice if you knew more about football, you'd be a college or pro coach.

[justasportsfan]

No I won't. Can they change their minds? sure. I doubt they will, but they always can. IF they do you will start seeing the snap ratio go the other way. you're jumping to conclusions without having any facts other than what happens at YOUR camp. If JP ends up taking snaps w/ the first team are you gonna say the competition is unfair for KH this time?

You're obviously reacting in a biased way since you are hatin on Holcomb.

[ICE74129]

Ice if you knew more about football, you'd be a college or pro coach.

I did coach some college ball. Some of us prefer HS. Its a personal choice. My son is now a freshman, I get a kick outta helping him. Had I went pro or stayed college to a very high level I wouldnt' have the time with him and my family that I do now.

I made a choice and am very comfortable with it.

[justasportsfan]

I did coach some college ball. Some of us prefer HS. Its a personal choice. My son is now a freshman, I get a kick outta helping him. Had I went pro or stayed college to a very high level I wouldnt' have the time with him and my family that I do now.

I made a choice and am very comfortable with it.
that's neither here nor there when it comes to the bills or the pros.

Here on BZ you're just another poster

[ICE74129]

Yes I agree winning breeds cohesiveness but how do you plan to win when you spent all offseason concentrated on making sure you rotate your QB 50/50 and ignoring other things? Also the QB will not have the same type of timing with his WR as KH is developing currently with our WRs. As for the kid getting it stuck to him, had he preformed last season there wouldnt be any question as to this year.
I say and will always say your way is fantasy, but I think the way Dj is running it is truly legit. I think one QB needs to emerge and begin to slowly get more reps than the others (about 10%). That way you can see what he will likely look like and see if timing and such develops, and also you get to see what the 2nd team kid can do when faced with adversary, and also does he bring up the lesser talent around him to a higher level? By all reports JP is not doing that at all at this point.

NONE OF THE QBS ON THIS ROSTER ARE THE ANSWER, THE ANSWER LIES IN THE 07 OFFSEASON. But we have to have one of the current QB's be our starter for this year.

Holcomb has what you mention because he is allowed the majority of the snaps with the first string. Same would be the case if JP was allowed to have the same reps.

As for as what did JP show last year to give him a shot? He showed flashes of great talent. I don't care if Marv and co like it, at least 3 teams had this kid as a first round talent. You MUST give him a LEGIT shot. Had JP played all 16 games last year and still sucked or even showed little improvement I would agree 100% and said move on. Problem is Week 2 in Tampa he was pulled for two series or so for holcomb. That isn't good coaching even at the Pop warner level. So realistically this kid NEVER had a legit shot.

You mention the answer lies in the 07 offseason. I say that is bad football management and it shows ineptness by the Bills org. How do THEY know it lies there until JP gets a full season? Hell the kid could come on and be the next Favre by week 10. But how will they know.

now tell me, what happens when JP keeps his mouth shut, keeps working, gets cut or traded then becomes an all pro somewhere else? Should that happen you still feel marv and co are running this team right?

Give the kid his legit shot, back him, see where you are at the end of the season. This though is a known fact, We aren't a playoff team. This is another fact, holcomb is a career backup with a very weak arm, and a losing record with a history of injury and turnovers. We wont' go to the superbowl with him at QB. That makes putting him in there a wasted season.

Lastly, 07? It had better be a drew brees or Dante Cullpepper type deal because if they think of keeping holcomb 2 more years while this kid develops, they will lose the fanbase with losing records. Not only that, you gotta still give this kid equal reps and equal game time to develop. Then you have to piss off your 'win now' veterans and let him start and fail then develop as the unquestioned starter at some point.

Waiting until 07 and drafting a guy will put this win now process off about 4-5 years. Why not see THIS year what JP has first?

[ICE74129]

that's neither here nor there when it comes to the bills or the pros.

Here on BZ you're just another poster

And thats too bad you see it that way. I know what I'm talking about on this subject. I guess because its not what fans want to hear or because its me its ignored. But you guys will see it soon enough. Its already started.

[justasportsfan]

And thats too bad you see it that way. I know what I'm talking about on this subject. I guess because its not what fans want to hear or because its me its ignored. But you guys will see it soon enough. Its already started.Maybe you do maybe you don't. Since you like facts so much, you have none other than your opinion. You have no close ties to the bills . You're guessing. Until Marv, Dick , Fairchild etc. themselves say they are favoring KH, all you have is opinion and that's a FACT.

[ICE74129]

Maybe you do maybe you don't. Since you like facts so much, you have none other than your opinion. You have no close ties to the bills . You're guessing. Until Marv, Dick , Fairchild etc. themselves say they are favoring KH, all you have is opinion and that's a FACT.

No bud the facts are there, you just gotta be willing to see them. And I don't think Marv and co are going to come out and say 'hey we lied' and admit to not allowing a 'legit' competition.

But again things change. I have thoughts that Holcomb wont' make it outta preseason to be honest.

[justasportsfan]

No bud the facts are there, you just gotta be willing to see them. And I don't think Marv and co are going to come out and say 'hey we lied' and admit to not allowing a 'legit' competition.

But again things change. I have thoughts that Holcomb wont' make it outta preseason to be honest.
I am willing to see them . I am pulling for JP to win the job. No one even knows who the first team is.


Here is a fact that I kept telling you.

JP worked out w/ the TE's while Holcomb worked out w/ the wr's when I was at camp


Now translate that.

[LtBillsFan66]

I did coach some college ball. Some of us prefer HS. Its a personal choice. My son is now a freshman, I get a kick outta helping him. Had I went pro or stayed college to a very high level I wouldnt' have the time with him and my family that I do now.

I made a choice and am very comfortable with it.
I hear you. I could be a CEO at microsoft if I didn't want to stay grounded.