Hey Cane

[Patrick76777]

Marc Bulger – First 7 games 65.4% 1826 yards 14 TD’s 6 Int’s 101.5 rating.
Billy Volek – First 8 games 61.1% 2486 yards 18 TD’s 10 Int’s 87.1 rating.
Kurt Warner – First 16 games 65.1% 4353 yards 41 TD’s 13 Int’s 109.2 rating
Chad Pennington – First 12 games 68.9% 3120 yards 22 TD’s 6 Int’s 104.2 rating.
Tom Brady – First 14 games 63.9% 2843 yards 18 TD’s 12 Int’s 86.5 rating.
Carson Palmer – First 13 games 60.9% 2897 yards 18 TD’s 12 Int’s 77.3 rating
Steve McNair – First 6 games 57% 1700 yards 9TD’s 5 picks, 87 rating.
Ben R. – First 13 games 66.4% 2621 yards 17 TD’s 11 picks 98.1 rating.
B. Leftwich – First 13 games 57.2% 2819 yards 14 TD’s 16 picks 73.0 rating
Peyton Manning – First 16 games 56.7% 3739 yards 26 TD’s 28 picks 71.2 rating
Trent Green – First 14 games 54.6 % 3441 yards 23 TD’s 11 picks 81.8


JP – First 8 games 49.6% 1340 yards 8 TD’s 8 picks 64.9 rating.


I didn’t really touch on too many of the NFC QB’s. Out of time. JP is last in Rating and Comp. %.

[Mudflap1]

I've said this before, I absolutely despise the comparisons of J.P. to Palmer, Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, etc. No relevance. A quarterback stands on his own. J.P. did not light it up last year. He needs to prove he deserves to start this year. Either he can or he can't.

Jon

[DraftBoy]

I've said this before, I absolutely despise the comparisons of J.P. to Palmer, Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, etc. No relevance. A quarterback stands on his own. J.P. did not light it up last year. He needs to prove he deserves to start this year. Either he can or he can't.

Jon


Well said! :bf1:

[justasportsfan]

Marc Bulger – First 7 games 65.4% 1826 yards 14 TD’s 6 Int’s 101.5 rating.
Billy Volek – First 8 games 61.1% 2486 yards 18 TD’s 10 Int’s 87.1 rating.
Kurt Warner – First 16 games 65.1% 4353 yards 41 TD’s 13 Int’s 109.2 rating
Chad Pennington – First 12 games 68.9% 3120 yards 22 TD’s 6 Int’s 104.2 rating.
Tom Brady – First 14 games 63.9% 2843 yards 18 TD’s 12 Int’s 86.5 rating.
Carson Palmer – First 13 games 60.9% 2897 yards 18 TD’s 12 Int’s 77.3 rating
Steve McNair – First 6 games 57% 1700 yards 9TD’s 5 picks, 87 rating.
Ben R. – First 13 games 66.4% 2621 yards 17 TD’s 11 picks 98.1 rating.
B. Leftwich – First 13 games 57.2% 2819 yards 14 TD’s 16 picks 73.0 rating
Peyton Manning – First 16 games 56.7% 3739 yards 26 TD’s 28 picks 71.2 rating
Trent Green – First 14 games 54.6 % 3441 yards 23 TD’s 11 picks 81.8


JP – First 8 games 49.6% 1340 yards 8 TD’s 8 picks 64.9 rating.


I didn’t really touch on too many of the NFC QB’s. Out of time. JP is last in Rating and Comp. %.



PAt , who were their coaches and compare them to JP's coach. Was the best OL of those qb's an undrafted rookie FA converted from a TE position?

[Patrick76777]

PAt , who were their coaches and compare them to JP's coach. Was the best OL of those qb's an undrafted rookie FA converted from a TE position?


So that's why he had a far worse year then every one of these guys? Sorry, don't buy it.

[The_Philster]

I've said this before, I absolutely despise the comparisons of J.P. to Palmer, Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, etc. No relevance. A quarterback stands on his own. J.P. did not light it up last year. He needs to prove he deserves to start this year. Either he can or he can't.

Jon
it's relevant because it's proof you don't have to light up the league your 1st year in order to have a chance at a great future

[Mr. Miyagi]

Pat, I think your stats are biased. Show me the stats of all the QBs instead of just the ones who had better ones than JP.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Still waiting Pat....

[Patrick76777]

Still waiting Pat....


Sorry I was working! Besides for the Rams, I only did the AFC. And I mostly did current QB's. I left off David Carr and Jake Plummer and whoever is the Browns QB.


I didn't and don't have time to do the NFC qb's, but I'm sure the pattern would hold true.

What's wrong, 11 current active QB's isn't enough for you?

[Patrick76777]

Still waiting Pat....

Oh and I forgot Culpepper in the AFC

16 games 62.7% 3937 yards 33 TD's 16 picks 98.0 rating.



And if you wanted to know,

Joey Harrington

12 games 50.1 2294 yards 12 TD's 16 picks 59.9 rating.

Slightly better then JP's first year. Although JP had a slightly higher rating. So I guess he compares well to Joey Harrington. That makes me feel good.

[BillsFever21]

Most of them guys you are taking their first 13-16 games too. Not their first 8 games.

Through Palmers first 8 games he had about 6 TD's and 12 INT's. After that he settled down some and finished the season 18-18.

8TD-8INT is a very respectable start for somebody through their first 8 games. Far better then many QB's in their first half season.

Of course he failed to mention the people who were far worse then JP. Not to mention having somebody like Mularkey as a HC and a terrible OL and on a terrible team.

[Patrick76777]

Most of them guys you are taking their first 13-16 games too. Not their first 8 games.

Through Palmers first 8 games he had about 6 TD's and 12 INT's. After that he settled down some and finished the season 18-18.

8TD-8INT is a very respectable start for somebody through their first 8 games. Far better then many QB's in their first half season.

Of course he failed to mention the people who were far worse then JP. Not to mention having somebody like Mularkey as a HC and a terrible OL and on a terrible team.


Nobody good, that I found, had a bad first year!

[justasportsfan]

So that's why he had a far worse year then every one of these guys? Sorry, don't buy it.
Nobody is denying JP had his problems. Isn't it kinda wierd that Drew did so much better th minute he went to Dallas where their OL was way better than ours? Drew couldn't do squat over here and you expect a rookie qb to do better? At least Drew had a no.2 ranked D to bail him out. Drew also had a way weaker schedule to deal with and yet he stunk. If you are going to bash JP at least have a valid reason. Drew didn't have vet problems either. He also had a running back who didn't quit on the team. Drew didn't have his no.1 reciever quit on the team either.They may sound like excuses but they are valid especially for a rookie qb. I doubt Ben could've done a lot better if he was our qb.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Oh and I forgot Culpepper in the AFC

16 games 62.7% 3937 yards 33 TD's 16 picks 98.0 rating.



And if you wanted to know,

Joey Harrington

12 games 50.1 2294 yards 12 TD's 16 picks 59.9 rating.

Slightly better then JP's first year. Although JP had a slightly higher rating. So I guess he compares well to Joey Harrington. That makes me feel good.
I stumbled onto that last week. JP has Joey Harrington written all over him.

Wonder if JP can play the piano?

[jamze132]

Most of them guys you are taking their first 13-16 games too. Not their first 8 games.

Through Palmers first 8 games he had about 6 TD's and 12 INT's. After that he settled down some and finished the season 18-18.

8TD-8INT is a very respectable start for somebody through their first 8 games. Far better then many QB's in their first half season.

Of course he failed to mention the people who were far worse then JP. Not to mention having somebody like Mularkey as a HC and a terrible OL and on a terrible team.
I'm gonna have to say that JP never really had a chance with Mularkey. Hell, the idiot wouldn't let the teams best offensive player play on 3rd down! What if Willis was in there instead of Shaud? Can anyone tell me for sure what would have happened? I bet we still would have drafted Whitner, but not at #8. We would have been a few slots lower in the draft. Mularkey was a tool.

[TacklingDummy]

Of course he failed to mention the people who were far worse then JP. .

You know your the 2nd person who has said this. And you are the second person who didn't provide examples of QB that were worse.

Leaf: 10 games, 2 TDs, 15 Ints. 1289 yards, 39.0. In Leafs defense, he didn't have a Moulds, Evans, or McGhaee to play with.

Akili Smith: 4 games, 2 TDs, 6 Ints, 805 yards, 52.8

Marinovich: 7 GP, 8 TDs, 9 INTS, 1345 yards, 77% Comparable to JP, and Todd was out of the NFL after this.

Ware: have to use all of Wares stats since he only played in 14 games in 4 years.
5 TDs, 8 Ints, 1112 yards

Shuler: 11 GP, 10 TDs, 12 Ints, 1658 yards

Tony Banks: 14 GP, 15 TDs, 15 Ints, 2544 yards

Todd Collins: 14 GP, 12 TDs, 13 ints, 2367 yards, Why the Bills cut him, he could of developed into the Bills Franchise QB with those numbers.

Tim Couch: 15 GP, 15 TDs, 13 Ints, 2447 yards

AJ Feeley: 6 GP 1011 Yards 6 TDs 5 Ints

[Jan Reimers]

Well, I guess these statistical comparisons show conclusively that JP is a bust. Might as well cut him now and install the gifted Kelly Holcomb as our future.

Oh, wait. How about Elway, Aikman, McNabb, E. Manning and about 100 other guys who went on to have great careers? How about just the first 8 starts for the ones you've listed with 12-16 starts? Most of those guys got their starts consecutively as well, giving them a chance to get used to life in the NFL, versus starting, being yanked by a moron coach, and then starting again when things had degenerated into chaos.

And do you really think there is any comparison, for instance, between Big Ben's Steelers to JP's Bills?

But Hell, let's never give JP a chance, and just keep floundering around with the weak armed journeyman. We don't want a future, we just want to win a respectable 6 games NOW, and every year thereafter.

[Patrick76777]

I stumbled onto that last week. JP has Joey Harrington written all over him.

Wonder if JP can play the piano?


I get sick of the Mularkey pulling him thing!

You've pointed out just how TERRIBLE JP was in those first 4 games.

[Stewie]

So that's why he had a far worse year then every one of these guys? Sorry, don't buy it.

Why are you comparing the first 8 games to other quarterbacks first 15 or 16?

Lazy and moronic. Doesn't mean anything.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Oh, wait. How about Elway, Aikman, McNabb, E. Manning and about 100 other guys who went on to have great careers? How about just the first 8 starts for the ones you've listed with 12-16 starts? Most of those guys got their starts consecutively as well, giving them a chance to get used to life in the NFL, versus starting, being yanked by a moron coach, and then starting again when things had degenerated into chaos.
Exactly.

Pat, from a purely analytical standpoint, you need to list stats of all QBs in their first 8 games in order to have a fair comparison. Comparing 8 (non-consecutive mind you) to 12-16 games stats is apples to oranges. Your comparison is totally invalid. Completely moot.

So let's see them before we draw any conclusions.

[Patrick76777]

Why are you comparing the first 8 games to other quarterbacks first 15 or 16?

Lazy and moronic. Doesn't mean anything.


Lazy's a bit of a harsh word for it. I'd call it a lack of time. And actually, I only said it was the QB's first year. A lot of these guys were able to play a full 15 or 16 because they played so well.

[Patrick76777]

Exactly.

Pat, from a purely analytical standpoint, you need to list stats of all QBs in their first 8 games in order to have a fair comparison. Comparing 8 (non-consecutive mind you) to 12-16 games stats is apples to oranges. Your comparison is totally invalid. Completely moot.

So let's see them before we draw any conclusions.


As I said before, I didn't do the NFC QB's based on the lack of time.

Also, I didn't breakdown the first 8 starts based on lack of time. I just did first year starting. So the arguement may not be 100% fair, I do NOT think that information is useless. The guys I listed clearly had better years.

[TacklingDummy]

As I said before, I didn't do the NFC QB's based on the lack of time.

Also, I didn't breakdown the first 8 starts based on lack of time. I just did first year starting. So the arguement may not be 100% fair, I do NOT think that information is useless. The guys I listed clearly had better years.

Those guys played more then 9 games their first year because they deserved to. The reason JP didn't play more then 9 games last year is because of the way he played the first 4 games. Go check out his stats for the first 4 games if ya don't believe me.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Those guys played more then 9 games their first year because they deserved to. The reason JP didn't play more then 9 games last year is because of the way he played the first 4 games. Go check out his stats for the first 4 games if ya don't believe me.
In that case let's compare all the QBs' first 4 games stats. Otherwise any unequal comparison is totally invalid.

[Patrick76777]

Those guys played more then 9 games their first year because they deserved to. The reason JP didn't play more then 9 games last year is because of the way he played the first 4 games. Go check out his stats for the first 4 games if ya don't believe me.


You're not talking to me are you? I agree with that.

[Patrick76777]

In that case let's compare all the QBs' first 4 games stats. Otherwise any unequal comparison is totally invalid.


I'd be 100% positive that JP's stats for his first 4 games are far worse then ANY other OB in the history of the league. those first 4 games were really bad!

[Mahdi]

Troy Aikman (year1- 11 games: 155/ 293 52.9% --1749 Yards-- 9TD--18 Int--- 55.7 rating

(year 2) 226/399 56.6 -- 2579 yards -- 11TD -- 18 Int -- 66.6 Rating


Steve Young( Year 1- 5 games: 72/138 52.2% -- 935 Yards -- 3 TD-- Int -- 56.9 Rating

(Year 2 - 14 Games) 195/363 53.7% --2282 Yards -- 8 TD 13 INT -- 65.5 Rating



John Elway( Year 1 - 10 Games) 123/259 47.5% -- 1663 Yards -- 7 TD-- 14 Int-- 54.9 Rating


JP is not the only one who struggled in his first starts, he has hall of fame company.

[TacklingDummy]

You're not talking to me are you? I agree with that.

I was just adding to your post. I agree with you about JP.

[Bling]

You guys are selling yourself short. Some teams would die to have Moulds, Evans and McGahee. Losman doesn't have any excuses to do that bad anymore. If he can't prove after week 2 he belongs, you should tank the season and go for Brady Quinn.

[Statman]

Marc Bulger – First 7 games 65.4% 1826 yards 14 TD’s 6 Int’s 101.5 rating.
Billy Volek – First 8 games 61.1% 2486 yards 18 TD’s 10 Int’s 87.1 rating.
Kurt Warner – First 16 games 65.1% 4353 yards 41 TD’s 13 Int’s 109.2 rating
Chad Pennington – First 12 games 68.9% 3120 yards 22 TD’s 6 Int’s 104.2 rating.
Tom Brady – First 14 games 63.9% 2843 yards 18 TD’s 12 Int’s 86.5 rating.
Carson Palmer – First 13 games 60.9% 2897 yards 18 TD’s 12 Int’s 77.3 rating
Steve McNair – First 6 games 57% 1700 yards 9TD’s 5 picks, 87 rating.
Ben R. – First 13 games 66.4% 2621 yards 17 TD’s 11 picks 98.1 rating.
B. Leftwich – First 13 games 57.2% 2819 yards 14 TD’s 16 picks 73.0 rating
Peyton Manning – First 16 games 56.7% 3739 yards 26 TD’s 28 picks 71.2 rating
Trent Green – First 14 games 54.6 % 3441 yards 23 TD’s 11 picks 81.8


JP – First 8 games 49.6% 1340 yards 8 TD’s 8 picks 64.9 rating.


I didn’t really touch on too many of the NFC QB’s. Out of time. JP is last in Rating and Comp. %.
Very good.

Now name the five starting linemen at the time of those first starts and compare them one-by-one to the Bills linemen. I can't think of one team above that didn't have an incredibly above average OL.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Troy Aikman (year1- 11 games: 155/ 293 52.9% --1749 Yards-- 9TD--18 Int--- 55.7 rating

(year 2) 226/399 56.6 -- 2579 yards -- 11TD -- 18 Int -- 66.6 Rating


Steve Young( Year 1- 5 games: 72/138 52.2% -- 935 Yards -- 3 TD-- Int -- 56.9 Rating

(Year 2 - 14 Games) 195/363 53.7% --2282 Yards -- 8 TD 13 INT -- 65.5 Rating



John Elway( Year 1 - 10 Games) 123/259 47.5% -- 1663 Yards -- 7 TD-- 14 Int-- 54.9 Rating


JP is not the only one who struggled in his first starts, he has hall of fame company.
While that doesn't mean JP is a shoe-in HOFer, it sure negates the premature attempt to call him a bust.

Good post. :up:

[Patrick76777]

Very good.

Now name the five starting linemen at the time of those first starts and compare them one-by-one to the Bills linemen. I can't think of one team above that didn't have an incredibly above average OL.


Yeah, I'll get right on that! makes a ton of sense. keep passing the buck.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Or we can keep comparing apples to oranges and making conclusions based on leaps of logic just to "prove" our points based on emotional opinions.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Yeah, I'll get right on that! makes a ton of sense. keep passing the buck.
Also please list the weather conditions of each and every game played, the experience and records of the OC's, and the phase of the moon. Thanks.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Also please list the weather conditions of each and every game played, the experience and records of the OC's, and the phase of the moon. Thanks.
:rofl:

[Patrick76777]

Or we can keep comparing apples to oranges and making conclusions based on leaps of logic just to "prove" our points based on emotional opinions.


Make of it what you wish. I only presented the first year stats of QB's mentioned.

You can take a horse to the water but you can't make him drink.

[justasportsfan]

You can take a horse to the water but you can't make him drink.I'll have to ask FBH if that's true.

[TacklingDummy]

In that case let's compare all the QBs' first 4 games stats. Otherwise any unequal comparison is totally invalid.

Here's what these guys did in their first 4 starts of their careers.

Bulgar: 1149 yards, 10 TDs, 3 Ints.
Culpepper: 991 yards, 6 TDs, 5 Ints.
Manning: 992 yards, 3 TDs, 11 Ints
Big Ben: 744 yards, 5 TDs, 4 Ints.
Palmer: 875 yards, 4 TDs, 7 Ints.
Losman: 433 yards, 1 TD, 2 Ints.
Brady: 820 yards, 5 TDs, 0 Int
Leftwich: 981 yards, 4 TDs, 8 Ints.
Pennington: 1025 Yards, 5 TDs, 3 Ints
Volek: 881 yards, 5 Tds, 0 Ints
Harrington: 957 yards, 5 TDs, 5 Ints
Robosack: 734 yards, 6 TDs, 3 Ints.
A. Brooks: 1021, 7 TDs, 5 Ints
Bollinger: 447 yards, 2 TDs, 4 INTs, how come he's not considered the Jets future? Losman like stats.
Brees: 608 yards, 4 TDs 2 Ints.
Carr: on a expansion team, 519 yards, 4 TDs, 6 Ints.
Delhomme: 510 yards, 4 TDs 4 Ints
Leaf: 568 yards, 1 TD, 8 Ints.
A. Smith: 605 yards, 2 TDs, 2 Ints
Shuler: 605 yards, 3 TDs 8 Ints
Feeley: 734 yards, 6 TDs, 2 Ints

Only Leaf and JP threw for less then 2 TDs. And JP/Bollinger are the only one's to throw for less then 500 yards. Good Company JP.

[raphael120]

in those stats you dont count in losmans bad hair days...really throws off his game.

[Richard Gozinya]

Ryan Leaf and Todd Marinovich also struggled in their first seasons.

[TacklingDummy]

Todd Marinovich also struggled in their first seasons.

8 game NFL career, 1345 yards, 8 TDs, 9 Ints. With number like that its hard to believe Todd was out of the NFL after 2 years. Those are future franchise QB numbers, baby.

[PromoTheRobot]

Marc Bulger – First 7 games 65.4% 1826 yards 14 TD’s 6 Int’s 101.5 rating.
Billy Volek – First 8 games 61.1% 2486 yards 18 TD’s 10 Int’s 87.1 rating.
Kurt Warner – First 16 games 65.1% 4353 yards 41 TD’s 13 Int’s 109.2 rating
Chad Pennington – First 12 games 68.9% 3120 yards 22 TD’s 6 Int’s 104.2 rating.
Tom Brady – First 14 games 63.9% 2843 yards 18 TD’s 12 Int’s 86.5 rating.
Carson Palmer – First 13 games 60.9% 2897 yards 18 TD’s 12 Int’s 77.3 rating
Steve McNair – First 6 games 57% 1700 yards 9TD’s 5 picks, 87 rating.
Ben R. – First 13 games 66.4% 2621 yards 17 TD’s 11 picks 98.1 rating.
B. Leftwich – First 13 games 57.2% 2819 yards 14 TD’s 16 picks 73.0 rating
Peyton Manning – First 16 games 56.7% 3739 yards 26 TD’s 28 picks 71.2 rating
Trent Green – First 14 games 54.6 % 3441 yards 23 TD’s 11 picks 81.8


JP – First 8 games 49.6% 1340 yards 8 TD’s 8 picks 64.9 rating.


I didn’t really touch on too many of the NFC QB’s. Out of time. JP is last in Rating and Comp. %.

So what you are saying is that JP has a long wa to go before living up to the lofty standards of Billy Volek and Chad Pennington. :dance:

PTR

[HHURRICANE]

Troy Aikman (year1- 11 games: 155/ 293 52.9% --1749 Yards-- 9TD--18 Int--- 55.7 rating
(year 2) 226/399 56.6 -- 2579 yards -- 11TD -- 18 Int -- 66.6 Rating
Steve Young( Year 1- 5 games: 72/138 52.2% -- 935 Yards -- 3 TD-- Int -- 56.9 Rating
(Year 2 - 14 Games) 195/363 53.7% --2282 Yards -- 8 TD 13 INT -- 65.5 Rating
John Elway( Year 1 - 10 Games) 123/259 47.5% -- 1663 Yards -- 7 TD-- 14 Int-- 54.9 Rating

JP is not the only one who struggled in his first starts, he has hall of fame company.

Man those coaches were stupid. They could have made it to the Super Bowl if they had pulled them after their first 4 games and... oh, wait a minute they are all HOF players with Super Bowl rings...Never Mind.

[Philagape]

More than enough QBs have made dramatic improvements to render any QB's first year irrelevant. Especially when there are other factors, not the least of which is JP was surrounded by a bad team. This is such an irrefutable truth that the source of any argument against it MUST be bias.