Are you people JP Losman fans or Buffalo Bills fans?

[ScottLawrence]

Give me a break.


All I read on this board is the bashing of Kelly Holcomb, and the **** sucking of JP Losman.


"If Holcomb starts I give up on the Levy/Jauron era"


Let me clear some things up for you guys......If Holcomb starts, he is obviously STILL better then JP, therefore, why would you be bashing the move of putting the best players on the field, which in this case, is Holcomb?


You fools killed Donahoe for the last 5 years every week, when all of you think exactly like he did.


Didn't you clowns learn from last year? You start JP(assuming he is still not the better quarterback), and you send a message to your team, you don't care about winning.



I want the best quarterback on the field for the 2006 season, because I want to win.

And all of you wonder why this team hasn't been to the playoffs in 6 years.....A majority of there fans think like losers.

[Philagape]

Give me a break.


Let me clear some things up for you guys......If Holcomb starts, he is obviously STILL better then JP.

That doesn't follow at all. It just means JP isn't way ahead of him. If they're about equal, Holcomb will get it only because he's technically the incumbent and a veteran.

Anyone who's pro-winning has no reason to root for Holcomb. He won't win you any games.

[LtBillsFan66]

Give me a break.


All I read on this board is the bashing of Kelly Holcomb, and the **** sucking of JP Losman.


"If Holcomb starts I give up on the Levy/Jauron era"


Let me clear some things up for you guys......If Holcomb starts, he is obviously STILL better then JP, therefore, why would you be bashing the move of putting the best players on the field, which in this case, is Holcomb?


You fools killed Donahoe for the last 5 years every week, when all of you think exactly like he did.


Didn't you clowns learn from last year? You start JP(assuming he is still not the better quarterback), and you send a message to your team, you don't care about winning.



I want the best quarterback on the field for the 2006 season, because I want to win.

And all of you wonder why this team hasn't been to the playoffs in 6 years.....A majority of there fans think like losers.
:bf1:

[OpIv37]

Give me a break.


All I read on this board is the bashing of Kelly Holcomb, and the **** sucking of JP Losman.


"If Holcomb starts I give up on the Levy/Jauron era"


Let me clear some things up for you guys......If Holcomb starts, he is obviously STILL better then JP, therefore, why would you be bashing the move of putting the best players on the field, which in this case, is Holcomb?


You fools killed Donahoe for the last 5 years every week, when all of you think exactly like he did.


Didn't you clowns learn from last year? You start JP(assuming he is still not the better quarterback), and you send a message to your team, you don't care about winning.



I want the best quarterback on the field for the 2006 season, because I want to win.

And all of you wonder why this team hasn't been to the playoffs in 6 years.....A majority of there fans think like losers.

It's not about who's the better QB NOW- it's about whether or not we have a franchise QB in JP. If Holcomb starts, it either means JP is not capable of being an NFL starter or the coaching staff is not allowing him to develop into one. KH is NOT a long-term answer at QB.

If he starts, it means we either spend the off-season looking for another young QB to develop and struggle for 2-3 years while that development happens, or go into 07 with the EXACT SAME QB question that we had in '05 and still have in '06. That's piss-poor management and doesn't help the team win.

[SquishDaFish]

Im a DIEHARD Bills fan and always will be. But I like many of the Real Bills fans know is that Holcomb sucks and wont bring us to postseason. Our best chance is to see what the youngster has by LETTING HIM PLAY! and not jerk him around and hurt his confidence even more. Hes a 1st rounder and they deserve at least 1 FULL year of starting with a competition to win the job of course. Dont have it handed to you (hmm like MooJokey & Dona**** did) If he doesnt have it after 1 full year this year then get someone NEW and NOT HOLCOMB!!

[BillyT92679]

Give me a break.


All I read on this board is the bashing of Kelly Holcomb, and the **** sucking of JP Losman.


"If Holcomb starts I give up on the Levy/Jauron era"


Let me clear some things up for you guys......If Holcomb starts, he is obviously STILL better then JP, therefore, why would you be bashing the move of putting the best players on the field, which in this case, is Holcomb?


You fools killed Donahoe for the last 5 years every week, when all of you think exactly like he did.


Didn't you clowns learn from last year? You start JP(assuming he is still not the better quarterback), and you send a message to your team, you don't care about winning.



I want the best quarterback on the field for the 2006 season, because I want to win.

And all of you wonder why this team hasn't been to the playoffs in 6 years.....A majority of there fans think like losers.
Well, since I'm actually an optimistic one and I think the Bills will be 8-8 no matter who the QB is, I'd rather have Losman since he was a first round pick and we have a hell of an investment in him. We ALL want to win, but we're all understanding that this team (which I think will be considerably better than many pessimists think) is honestly a year away from being a playoff contender.

[TedMock]

There isn't anybody who doesn't want the best players on the field. I think most people (including myself) are hoping to god Losman wins the job. Why? Because if Holcomb is our best option, there isn't a whole heck of a lot of hope. I will root for him endlessly as he is our QB, but I'm hoping JP is our QB for the next several years, and a very successful one. I don't want to have to draft a QB in round 1 come April. I'm a Bills fan first, obviously, but if the "best" QB means 6-10, and the young QB means 5-11, then give me 5-11 with steady growth and maturity that makes us the team to talk about in 2007. At some point we have to let the team grow together, especially the young offense. I will cheer equally as hard regardless of who's the starting QB. I actually like Holcomb. Reality, however, is that he's not going to be around very long as a starter at his age. Holcomb starting means another project next season, and another year of growing pains for some young QB. Now, if Holcomb means 10 wins, and Losman means 5, well that's a different story all together. I just don't think the disparity is that great. If Losman flat-out loses the job by miles, we absolutely need to drop him as he will officially be a bust. This is a very different battle than the RJ v. Flutie for me because not only would I love to see Losman succeed, and have Holcomb as a quality, veteran backup. I like both guys. I absolutely HATED RJ and Flutie back then. At least the two guys here now are acting like adults.

[Mad Bomber]

I'm a BILLS fan, and have been for over 40 years.

I've seen some of the best and worst QBs ever play for the Bills.

I want the Bills to win now, but I want to see them take steps to win for years to come. I am not a JP or KH fan; I just feel we need to see if JP has what it takes to become a winner in the NFL. If not, then cut him and keep looking. I seriously do not feel that Holcomb will be the QB to take the Bills anywhere for any length of time.

[OpIv37]

I seriously do not feel that Holcomb will be the QB to take the Bills anywhere for any length of time.

Long term? Who cares about that when Holcomb might be able to get us to 8-8? :rolleyes:

[Philagape]

I'll take 5-11 with JP over 7-9 with Holcomb. At least then there's a chance for 2007.

I can think of nothing more pointless than a non-playoff year with an aging journeyman as our starter.

[Mad Bomber]

Long term? Who cares about that when Holcomb might be able to get us to 8-8? :rolleyes:

I didn't say long term. I said ANY length of time. That means one season or less. Or one game or less.

[TacklingDummy]

Both QBs will see plenty of action this year no matter who the starter is. They both are injury prone.

Neither QB is the "future" of the Bills. I for one don't want KH as the Bills future. And I don't want to consider JP the Bills future when he can't clearly beat out KH by now.

The "future" QB of the Bills has not been drafted yet.

[TigerJ]

All I read on this board is the bashing of Kelly Holcomb, and the **** sucking of JP Losman.

I assume you mean "sucking up to" rather than "sucking of" since you are obviously in favor of Holcomb. If you mean by "bashing of Kelly Holcomb" that people have said they think that he dumps the ball off too much, that he doesn't have a very good arm, and that at 33 he is probably on the downside of his career, then I am guilty. That's what I think and that's what I've said. I'm also on record as saying if he wins the starting QB job, I will support him and cheer the Bills. I just don't think it bodes well for the team if he is the starter. It doesn't mean that he is a great QB as much as it means the Losman experiment is a failure. I have seen some bashing of Kelly Holcomb on this forum. I've also seen bashing of JP Losman. Some people seem only able to see one side of it.



You fools killed Donahoe for the last 5 years every week, when all of you think exactly like he did.


Didn't you clowns learn from last year? You start JP(assuming he is still not the better quarterback), and you send a message to your team, you don't care about winning.


I want the best quarterback on the field for the 2006 season, because I want to win.

And all of you wonder why this team hasn't been to the playoffs in 6 years.....A majority of there fans think like losers.

I don't much like or respect posters who have the habit of calling everyone else fools or clowns whatever their opinion is. You can expect I'll do my part to neg you into oblilvion.

[ICE74129]

Give me a break.


All I read on this board is the bashing of Kelly Holcomb, and the **** sucking of JP Losman.


"If Holcomb starts I give up on the Levy/Jauron era"


Let me clear some things up for you guys......If Holcomb starts, he is obviously STILL better then JP, therefore, why would you be bashing the move of putting the best players on the field, which in this case, is Holcomb?


You fools killed Donahoe for the last 5 years every week, when all of you think exactly like he did.


Didn't you clowns learn from last year? You start JP(assuming he is still not the better quarterback), and you send a message to your team, you don't care about winning.



I want the best quarterback on the field for the 2006 season, because I want to win.

And all of you wonder why this team hasn't been to the playoffs in 6 years.....A majority of there fans think like losers.

What part of Holcomb is a career loser and even if he was QB of the 2000 ravens team they wouldn't make the playoffs with him, do you not get?

If you want to send the team a message that you don't care about winning, let the QB position be about the most liked QB and start holcomb, the career loser.

[jmb1099]

Typical post from this poster and typical approval from those who either think like him or want to continue to feed the fire. Scott, no offense, but this might be the worst post in the history of the Zone. The process of having a winning football team is building a winning football team. Donahoe didn't understand that and while you accuse others of being Donahoe-ish, it is you who apparently doesn't realize that building a team is more than a one year process.

As far as losman is concerned maybe you (and others) should read some camp reports...he is improved over last year and is really starting to fire on all cylinders. Now here is where I'll save some of you anti -losman guys the time and energy needed to post more rubbish: Lets see if he can keep up the performance level he had today. Read the camp reports, read the blogs...he is improving with his best day so far...he hardly missed a freaking pass! Doesn't sound to bad from where I sit.

[Dr. Lecter]

I have had with the arrogant condescending posts about this topic. The "You are either with us, or against us" attitude is old and worn out. Quite frankly, it comes off as a steaming heap.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
First off, for the most part anybody that takes the time to sign up and be active on a Bills message board is a fan. Whether they have an attitude like yours, ICE, pat, TigerJ, Billsology, gameboy or an attitude all their own, we are all Bills fans here. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Secondly, many people here feel that with Holcomb the Bills will not achieve true success. His ten year career is evidence of that. He is what he is: a caretaker back-up. He will no lead a team to the promised land, short of having a Baltimore Ravens defense. Losman however is still a relative unknown. He very well might be worse than Holcomb. He could also be very well better than Holcomb. The problem is, he is a young guy. And he needs to play, learn and develop. Only then can a true decision be made on his career. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
As for winning this year, it is likely not happening with either guy, at least not to a great extend. What starting JP does do is show this team that the management and coaches are not short-sighted. Donahoe tries short term fixes, spending money on big name guys. This administration is trying to build a team. All of us want to win. Believe me. Nobody wants the Bills to lose. However, you need to take a step back and at least consider that maybe your way is not the only way.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
So get off your ego trip and discuss this team like an adult. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>

[Tatonka]

It's not about who's the better QB NOW- it's about whether or not we have a franchise QB in JP. If Holcomb starts, it either means JP is not capable of being an NFL starter or the coaching staff is not allowing him to develop into one. KH is NOT a long-term answer at QB.

If he starts, it means we either spend the off-season looking for another young QB to develop and struggle for 2-3 years while that development happens, or go into 07 with the EXACT SAME QB question that we had in '05 and still have in '06. That's piss-poor management and doesn't help the team win.


:bf1:

scott will never get it, like most of the others that have already given up on jp.

[Tatonka]

There isn't anybody who doesn't want the best players on the field. I think most people (including myself) are hoping to god Losman wins the job. Why? Because if Holcomb is our best option, there isn't a whole heck of a lot of hope. I will root for him endlessly as he is our QB, but I'm hoping JP is our QB for the next several years, and a very successful one. I don't want to have to draft a QB in round 1 come April. I'm a Bills fan first, obviously, but if the "best" QB means 6-10, and the young QB means 5-11, then give me 5-11 with steady growth and maturity that makes us the team to talk about in 2007. At some point we have to let the team grow together, especially the young offense. I will cheer equally as hard regardless of who's the starting QB. I actually like Holcomb. Reality, however, is that he's not going to be around very long as a starter at his age. Holcomb starting means another project next season, and another year of growing pains for some young QB. Now, if Holcomb means 10 wins, and Losman means 5, well that's a different story all together. I just don't think the disparity is that great. If Losman flat-out loses the job by miles, we absolutely need to drop him as he will officially be a bust. This is a very different battle than the RJ v. Flutie for me because not only would I love to see Losman succeed, and have Holcomb as a quality, veteran backup. I like both guys. I absolutely HATED RJ and Flutie back then. At least the two guys here now are acting like adults.

:bf1:

[PUCKER]

Well,to me,the only fool around here is the one that started this thread. :moon:

[Yasgur's Farm]

One thing I know for sure... I'm not a Drew Bledsoe fan.

[Historian]

Right now...Losman is the Buffalo Bills.

[ICE74129]

I have had with the arrogant condescending posts about this topic. The "You are either with us, or against us" attitude is old and worn out. Quite frankly, it comes off as a steaming heap.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
First off, for the most part anybody that takes the time to sign up and be active on a Bills message board is a fan. Whether they have an attitude like yours, ICE, pat, TigerJ, Billsology, gameboy or an attitude all their own, we are all Bills fans here. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Secondly, many people here feel that with Holcomb the Bills will not achieve true success. His ten year career is evidence of that. He is what he is: a caretaker back-up. He will no lead a team to the promised land, short of having a Baltimore Ravens defense. Losman however is still a relative unknown. He very well might be worse than Holcomb. He could also be very well better than Holcomb. The problem is, he is a young guy. And he needs to play, learn and develop. Only then can a true decision be made on his career. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
As for winning this year, it is likely not happening with either guy, at least not to a great extend. What starting JP does do is show this team that the management and coaches are not short-sighted. Donahoe tries short term fixes, spending money on big name guys. This administration is trying to build a team. All of us want to win. Believe me. Nobody wants the Bills to lose. However, you need to take a step back and at least consider that maybe your way is not the only way.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
So get off your ego trip and discuss this team like an adult. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

Doc, Under another name Scott was a JP hater from the minute they released Bledsoe on the BB.com board.

[ICE74129]

Well,to me,the only fool around here is the one that started this thread. :moon:

You tell em sweetie

[Yasgur's Farm]

That's right UT... ERRRR... I mean Ice. In fact... I would say the vast majority of JP haters are Drewlers.

[Statman]

And all of you wonder why this team hasn't been to the playoffs in 6 years.....A majority of there fans think like losers.
Oh, this is good.

So now the reason why the team has sucked is because of what the fans think.

LOL

[justasportsfan]

They both are injury prone.

. :coocoo: Your are representing your handle well . So what's next, Nall is injury prone too? Spikes? Evans?

[ScottLawrence]

Im just trying to prepare all of you for the day they announce Holcomb as the starter.


You can criticize me all you want, but it seems that me, along with a few others are the only Buffalo Bill fans on this board.


You continue to spew crap about Holcomb when you have nothing to back you up, while I have continuously backed up my point with proof that Holcomb has played, and given the chance can play like a top 15, perhaps even top 10 quarterback in this league.

And no.....I don't dislike Losman, and no I haven't given up on him, I just still don't think he's ready to take over the role of being a starting quarterback.

We all knew coming out of college, JP was labeled a project at the position.


Take that for what its worth, but just be prepared when Holcombs announced as the starter, because I know a lot of people are going to ***** and complain, and stop following the Bills because there beloved JP Losman isn't playing:(

[ScottLawrence]

Oh, this is good.

So now the reason why the team has sucked is because of what the fans think.

LOL


Thats not what I said.


I said all of you people think exactly like Tom Donahoe, and then wonder why the team hasn't been to the playoffs in 6 years.

[Jan Reimers]

Being a Bills' fan and wanting JP to start are not mutually exclusive.

Many of us "fools" and "clowns" would love to see the young guy with great physical tools and upside be given a fair opportunity to develop, rather than wasting another year with a mediocrity at QB.

I guess that makes us idiots, and not true Bills'fans.

[Statman]

You continue to spew crap about Holcomb when you have nothing to back you up, while I have continuously backed up my point with proof that Holcomb has played, and given the chance can play like a top 15, perhaps even top 10 quarterback in this league.(
What in his career to date has led you to such a conclusion?

[ScottLawrence]

I have had with the arrogant condescending posts about this topic. The "You are either with us, or against us" attitude is old and worn out. Quite frankly, it comes off as a steaming heap.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
First off, for the most part anybody that takes the time to sign up and be active on a Bills message board is a fan. Whether they have an attitude like yours, ICE, pat, TigerJ, Billsology, gameboy or an attitude all their own, we are all Bills fans here. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Secondly, many people here feel that with Holcomb the Bills will not achieve true success. His ten year career is evidence of that. He is what he is: a caretaker back-up. He will no lead a team to the promised land, short of having a Baltimore Ravens defense. Losman however is still a relative unknown. He very well might be worse than Holcomb. He could also be very well better than Holcomb. The problem is, he is a young guy. And he needs to play, learn and develop. Only then can a true decision be made on his career. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
As for winning this year, it is likely not happening with either guy, at least not to a great extend. What starting JP does do is show this team that the management and coaches are not short-sighted. Donahoe tries short term fixes, spending money on big name guys. This administration is trying to build a team. All of us want to win. Believe me. Nobody wants the Bills to lose. However, you need to take a step back and at least consider that maybe your way is not the only way.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
So get off your ego trip and discuss this team like an adult. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>


Discuss like an adult?

As far as im concearned, im the only one on here acting like an adult.

It's bash Holcomb, and praise Losman every day on this board, like a bunch of little kids you all cry when Holcomb has a good day at camp.

I got news for all of you, they both play on the same team.

So don't accuse me of not acting like an adult, look around you, and read some of the childish posts people continue to spew.

[The_Philster]

Discuss like an adult?

As far as im concearned, im the only one on here acting like an adult.

It's bash Holcomb, and praise Losman every day on this board, like a bunch of little kids you all cry when Holcomb has a good day at camp.

I got news for all of you, they both play on the same team.

So don't accuse me of not acting like an adult, look around you, and read some of the childish posts people continue to spew.



You can criticize me all you want, but it seems that me, along with a few others are the only Buffalo Bill fans on this board.

yeah...there's a mature post :rolleyes:


You continue to spew crap about Holcomb when you have nothing to back you up, while I have continuously backed up my point with proof that Holcomb has played, and given the chance can play like a top 15, perhaps even top 10 quarterback in this league.
top 15? :lmao: top 10? :roflmao:

Sorry...but top QBs have the ability to throw more than 5 yard outs...they also know that when you absolutely have to convert a 4th and 7 to have even a chance at winning the game, you DON'T throw it short of the 1st down
He doesn't have the physical ability...nor the mental to be classified as anything but a very good backup

[Statman]

Being a Bills' fan and wanting JP to start are not mutually exclusive.

Many of us "fools" and "clowns" would love to see the young guy with great physical tools and upside be given a fair opportunity to develop, rather than wasting another year with a mediocrity at QB.

I guess that makes us idiots, and not true Bills'fans.
Not to mention, let's suppose that he plays a decent season in Fairchild's system providing average caliber ball. To hope for more is insanity. He'll be 34 next season and doesn't have outstanding mobility to begin with. So even if he does, we're still in the market for a QB to fill in after him very soon. Suppose these guys get the team in shape to contend in '08. Holcomb will be 35 and it's highly doubtful that he'll have improved any and if anything his arm strength will begin to go. Since he's not long on arm strength to begin with it would only be bad. If we had to replace him then it could mean taking the team out of contention.

Even considering Holcomb as anything but a backup is crazy.

Losman's no guarantee but at least he has an upside and played the same as Holcomb last season plus or minus with no experience. Nall is a better option than Holcomb, even coming in totally cold.

[Historian]

I can think of about four teams who's backups are better than Van Holcomb.

I therefore rank him as rhe 36th best QB in the league.

Note: that ranking could drop if Leinhart signs....sorry.

[TacklingDummy]

:coocoo: Your are representing your handle well . So what's next, Nall is injury prone too? Spikes? Evans?

They are not injury prone? JP 2 season, JP 2 injuries that kept him out of alot of games in both.

KH? I don't have enough fingers to count how many games he missed due to injury.

[ScottLawrence]

What in his career to date has led you to such a conclusion?


How bout his passer rating, TD to INT ratio, leadership qualities, and overall quarterback play before the finale of last year.


His previous performances with the Cleveland Browns.....You guys continue to look past all these, and bash him because his arm isn't as strong as Losmans.

[The_Philster]

If you really think he should be starting, he should be starting elsewhere. Look at our WRs...all that speed would be unutilized if Holcomb were to be the starter

[TacklingDummy]

I can think of about four teams who's backups are better than Van Holcomb.

I therefore rank him as rhe 36th best QB in the league.

Note: that ranking could drop if Leinhart signs....sorry.

That's strange. I just looked up the QB leaders for last year and Holcomb was ranked 15th.

And your beloved JP was ranked 33rd with only Kyle Orton ranking lower.

[TacklingDummy]

If you really think he should be starting, he should be starting elsewhere. Look at our WRs...all that speed would be unutilized if Holcomb were to be the starter

WRONG. With all that speed you need the QB that can best put the ball in thier hands. That QB would be Holcomb.

[LtFinFan66]

I am a fan of neither

[TacklingDummy]

I am a fan of neither

You should be a fan of both. As long as the Bills have Losman and Holcomb at QB they won't be good anytime soon.

[The_Philster]

WRONG. With all that speed you need the QB that can best put the ball in thier hands. That QB would be Holcomb.
How far behind them are they expected to place their hands to catch his weak-armed passes? :rolleyes: Fast WRs need QBs with arm strength...pretty basic stuff

[TacklingDummy]

How far behind them are they expected to place their hands to catch his weak-armed passes? :rolleyes: Fast WRs need QBs with arm strength...pretty basic stuff

How fast do they have to run to catch up to Losman's overthrows?

Its all about accuracy.

Balls thrown over 20 yards last year JP had a Comp. % of 26%. Holcomb 44%.

[The_Philster]

Overthrown passes are usually the result of a lack of chemistry. Anyone who actually watched the latter stages of last season saw the number of overthrown passes by JP drop drastically. Anyway, the WRs on this roster have speed to burn...which'll go to waste if the QB can't get the ball downfield

[Novacane]

And all of you wonder why this team hasn't been to the playoffs in 6 years.....A majority of there fans think like losers.


:rolleyes: Fans have nothing to do with the team not making the playoffs

[TacklingDummy]

Overthrown passes are usually the result of a lack of chemistry. Anyone who actually watched the latter stages of last season saw the number of overthrown passes by JP drop drastically. Anyway, the WRs on this roster have speed to burn...which'll go to waste if the QB can't get the ball downfield

1) Your right. Instead of overthrowing, JP just threw it into the arms of Gamble during the Carolina game. Game Over.

2) Anyway, the WRs on this roster have speed to burn...which'll go to waste if the QB can't get them the ball.

[X-Era]

Give me a break.


All I read on this board is the bashing of Kelly Holcomb, and the **** sucking of JP Losman.


"If Holcomb starts I give up on the Levy/Jauron era"


Let me clear some things up for you guys......If Holcomb starts, he is obviously STILL better then JP, therefore, why would you be bashing the move of putting the best players on the field, which in this case, is Holcomb?


You fools killed Donahoe for the last 5 years every week, when all of you think exactly like he did.


Didn't you clowns learn from last year? You start JP(assuming he is still not the better quarterback), and you send a message to your team, you don't care about winning.



I want the best quarterback on the field for the 2006 season, because I want to win.

And all of you wonder why this team hasn't been to the playoffs in 6 years.....A majority of there fans think like losers.
Your right, I bet all the vets will buy into Holcomb as a "winner", that 4 int beauty against the lowly Jets in the last game of the year last year really cements down what a "studly winner" Holcomb is.

Holcomb MAY win one, single, more game than Losman.

So 6-10 versus 5 and 11, whats the difference? Ill take the higher draft pick, a full year long trial on Losman, and the satisfaction that Losman is a KNOWN quantity at that point.

But yeah, why start him when we can go 6 and 10 which is LOSING by the way under Holcomb.

Your arguement is stupid.

[Statman]

How bout his passer rating, TD to INT ratio, leadership qualities, and overall quarterback play before the finale of last year.


His previous performances with the Cleveland Browns.....You guys continue to look past all these, and bash him because his arm isn't as strong as Losmans.
I'm not looking past anything. I see it all. I'm just curious what you're seeing that I am not.

How bout his passer rating: What is it both last season and career? How does that stack up against your statements that he's a top-15 caliber QB?

TD to INT ratio: What was it last year and career? Same question then.

leadership qualities: A subjective measure that apart from putting something up in a scoring or other performance context is meaningless. Who cares if he can throw great parties and gets along with everyone if his work sucks.

...and overall quarterback play before the finale of last year: Discount that single game even.

What's your basis?

[ICE74129]

How fast do they have to run to catch up to Losman's overthrows?

Its all about accuracy.

Balls thrown over 20 yards last year JP had a Comp. % of 26%. Holcomb 44%.

Well if JP throws 30 and completes 10 whereas holcomb throws 10 and completes 4, this is a truely scued stat

[ICE74129]

1) Your right. Instead of overthrowing, JP just threw it into the arms of Gamble during the Carolina game. Game Over.

2) Anyway, the WRs on this roster have speed to burn...which'll go to waste if the QB can't get them the ball.


Had the WR turned around, he would have had the catch instead of Gamble.

[The_Philster]

1) Your right. Instead of overthrowing, JP just threw it into the arms of Gamble during the Carolina game. Game Over.
one pass as opposed to the 4 picks Holcomb threw against the Jets.....anyway...as I said...they dropped drastically. Care to point out where I or anyone said they ended completely? The post is right there in the open...so attempting to put words in my mouth when it's clear I never said what you're implying is pathetic at best. As far as ending games poorly...who was it that made a severe mental error and threw it short of the 1st down we had to have in order to have a shot at winning the game? :scratch:

2) Anyway, the WRs on this roster have speed to burn...which'll go to waste if the QB can't get them the ball.Now you got it :up: No QB is gonna hit on every pass..but a QB who has the ability to get them the ball rather than one who has to dump it off all the time is going to do a lot better.

[Dr. Lecter]

Discuss like an adult?

As far as im concearned, im the only one on here acting like an adult.

It's bash Holcomb, and praise Losman every day on this board, like a bunch of little kids you all cry when Holcomb has a good day at camp.

I got news for all of you, they both play on the same team.

So don't accuse me of not acting like an adult, look around you, and read some of the childish posts people continue to spew.

I have not seen anybody upset when Holcomb has a good day. No one. So calm down and wuit making him sound like a victim. And yes they both play on the same team (And maybe you should look at that as well, and back off Losman, using your logic).

The fact is you are the one who are accusing people who like JP, or even those that want to give him an opportunity of not being Bills fans. You are the one acting as if your point of view is the only valid one.

Right now, at this time, Holcomb is likely the better QB. But the ability to improve is possesed by Losman. Holcomb is a very good back-up and caretaker. His days in Cleveland were dominated by great games and average to poor games. His performance as a Bill last year against Denver was poor.

His arm strength causes double trouble in Buffalo. Not only do the winds harm his ability to go downfield, he also is limited in out patterns. As for JP's ability to throw deep, he throws one of the prettiest deep balls I have seen. His timing with Evans was improving last year.

Lastly, I have yet to see people accuse you of not being a Bills fan, despite your support of Holcomb.

[ScottLawrence]

I'm not looking past anything. I see it all. I'm just curious what you're seeing that I am not.

How bout his passer rating: What is it both last season and career? How does that stack up against your statements that he's a top-15 caliber QB?

TD to INT ratio: What was it last year and career? Same question then.

leadership qualities: A subjective measure that apart from putting something up in a scoring or other performance context is meaningless. Who cares if he can throw great parties and gets along with everyone if his work sucks.

...and overall quarterback play before the finale of last year: Discount that single game even.

What's your basis?

Well his passer rating coming off a great win in Cincinnati was 92.3, and his TD to INT was 2 to 1 as he had 8 TD passes, and 4 thrown INT's, and was 4-3 as a starter on a 5-10 football team.


Im sure everyone recalls his pass out into the flat to Shelton who then flipped the ball forwards right into the hands of a Jet defender who walked into the Endzone.....Or the Ball that went right through Mark Campbells hands in that same game against the Jets.

How bout his Playoff performance in Pittsburgh a couple years ago? Or his Performance in Cincinnati this year, and last year? When he started and we lost, he played good football for the most part.(@Oakland, Denver,@New England)

Those aren't flukes, Holcombs performed very well when given the chance, but everyone seems to put him down because he has a "weak" arm.

[ScottLawrence]

I have not seen anybody upset when Holcomb has a good day. No one. So calm down and wuit making him sound like a victim. And yes they both play on the same team (And maybe you should look at that as well, and back off Losman, using your logic).

The fact is you are the one who are accusing people who like JP, or even those that want to give him an opportunity of not being Bills fans. You are the one acting as if your point of view is the only valid one.

Right now, at this time, Holcomb is likely the better QB. But the ability to improve is possesed by Losman. Holcomb is a very good back-up and caretaker. His days in Cleveland were dominated by great games and average to poor games. His performance as a Bill last year against Denver was poor.

His arm strength causes double trouble in Buffalo. Not only do the winds harm his ability to go downfield, he also is limited in out patterns. As for JP's ability to throw deep, he throws one of the prettiest deep balls I have seen. His timing with Evans was improving last year.

Lastly, I have yet to see people accuse you of not being a Bills fan, despite your support of Holcomb.


I have not attacked Losman at all in this thread.

I have said if he is announced as the starter, then we are in very good shape, because then he must be better then Holcomb, whom I believe is a very decent starting quarterback.

[Philagape]

You know a veteran QB is bad when we can count his good games one by one. That means a good game from him is extraordinary.

[Philagape]

And short of suggesting the punter play left tackle, there simply is no dumber, less relevant, obviously biased football-related argument than holding a QB's stats from his first 8 games against him.

[Nighthawk]

Give me a break.


All I read on this board is the bashing of Kelly Holcomb, and the **** sucking of JP Losman.


"If Holcomb starts I give up on the Levy/Jauron era"


Let me clear some things up for you guys......If Holcomb starts, he is obviously STILL better then JP, therefore, why would you be bashing the move of putting the best players on the field, which in this case, is Holcomb?


You fools killed Donahoe for the last 5 years every week, when all of you think exactly like he did.


Didn't you clowns learn from last year? You start JP(assuming he is still not the better quarterback), and you send a message to your team, you don't care about winning.



I want the best quarterback on the field for the 2006 season, because I want to win.

And all of you wonder why this team hasn't been to the playoffs in 6 years.....A majority of there fans think like losers.

If you wanted what's best for the Bills, then you would want anybody under center EXCEPT Holcomb! He is not going to turn this franchise around, he is not going to win games (he's proven he can't do that) and he is 33 years old. What part about this are you having a hard time with? All of us so called "JP Lovers" simply want to find out what we have in him, good or bad, and then move on. Hell, it could be Nall, but Holcomb does nothing for this franchise! If Losman or Nall start and they play well, then we have a QB of the future. If they play and do terrible, then we draft one next year. I'm pretty sure that most of us on this board are expecting the worst from this year, but hoping for the best, so why waste it on a noodle arm, career journeyman backup QB? Are you following me now?

[X-Era]

Well his passer rating coming off a great win in Cincinnati was 92.3, and his TD to INT was 2 to 1 as he had 8 TD passes, and 4 thrown INT's, and was 4-3 as a starter on a 5-10 football team.


Im sure everyone recalls his pass out into the flat to Shelton who then flipped the ball forwards right into the hands of a Jet defender who walked into the Endzone.....Or the Ball that went right through Mark Campbells hands in that same game against the Jets.

How bout his Playoff performance in Pittsburgh a couple years ago? Or his Performance in Cincinnati this year, and last year? When he started and we lost, he played good football for the most part.(@Oakland, Denver,@New England)

Those aren't flukes, Holcombs performed very well when given the chance, but everyone seems to put him down because he has a "weak" arm.
And Losmans rating for the Houston game, his FIRST game starting was 89.9. Then he had a 124.2 against the KC Chiefs (who almost made the playoffs and have in most of the past years) and a 102.1against our hated Fins rivals.

He lost 2 games to ATL and TB, TB went to the playoffs and ATL almost did (8 and 8 but they were in contention late in the year). He had a putrid game vs. the lowly Saints but only threw 1 int, and 0 TD's instead of the FOUR that Holcomb threw against the lowly Jets (another hated rival).

Holcomb blew it twice against the Jets, we won the first outing but 2 TD's and 2 INT's is FAR from dominant. He blew his game against the Pats in the 1st half where we DOMINATED them in yardage but old POS Holcomb couldnt put it in the end zone, he ended up 1 TD and 1 INT. He did manage to beat Mia, with a putrid 169 yards, 1 TD and 1 INT, but his pct of completions at 76, made the game look like he played well with a 106.1 rating. His best game probably EVER was against Cinnci where he managed 304 yards, but still only 1 TD and 1 INT. Again yards and completions were boosting his rating to 105.3

So, Holcomb cant dominate a putrid NYJ team, cant score TD's, throws almost just as many INT's, he cant put up yards, TD's, or even beat NE, and he cant get yards, TD's against the Fins........Sounds like a sure fire starter for us in our division!!! He cant throw enough TD's to put ANYONE away, throws plenty of INT's as well. Furthermore, Holcomb has been playing for over 10 damn years!!!

On the other hand, you have Losman who puts up 3 TD"s against Mia when he played them, but then had 3 INT's against the Pats but manage just as many TD's as Holcomb. Unfortunately, the fool Mularkey didnt pull the 4 int clown and put JP in so that he could play the Jets even once. Did I mention that this was Losmans 1st year as a starter?

Overall, Both had decent games, but overall they both sucked. The differnce is that Holcomb has no excuse and can get no better. Losman has shown IN GAMES he can score more TD's and has loads of potential to get better.

The choice is clear, unless your head is cloudy to start with.

Losman in 06!

[Tatonka]

Im just trying to prepare all of you for the day they announce Holcomb as the starter.


You can criticize me all you want, but it seems that me, along with a few others are the only Buffalo Bill fans on this board.


You continue to spew crap about Holcomb when you have nothing to back you up, while I have continuously backed up my point with proof that Holcomb has played, and given the chance can play like a top 15, perhaps even top 10 quarterback in this league.

And no.....I don't dislike Losman, and no I haven't given up on him, I just still don't think he's ready to take over the role of being a starting quarterback.

We all knew coming out of college, JP was labeled a project at the position.


Take that for what its worth, but just be prepared when Holcombs announced as the starter, because I know a lot of people are going to ***** and complain, and stop following the Bills because there beloved JP Losman isn't playing:(

your right.. your the only real bills fan here.. just you and tackling dummy and a few others.. the rest of us are not bills fans..

clearly your as bright as your original post and this one indicated! you should post more.. because your threads are great..

..to poop on.

[ICE74129]

Well his passer rating coming off a great win in Cincinnati was 92.3, and his TD to INT was 2 to 1 as he had 8 TD passes, and 4 thrown INT's, and was 4-3 as a starter on a 5-10 football team.


Im sure everyone recalls his pass out into the flat to Shelton who then flipped the ball forwards right into the hands of a Jet defender who walked into the Endzone.....Or the Ball that went right through Mark Campbells hands in that same game against the Jets.

How bout his Playoff performance in Pittsburgh a couple years ago? Or his Performance in Cincinnati this year, and last year? When he started and we lost, he played good football for the most part.(@Oakland, Denver,@New England)

Those aren't flukes, Holcombs performed very well when given the chance, but everyone seems to put him down because he has a "weak" arm.

Holcomb has a career losing record so he hasn't performed well when given the chance.

He had a 3-4 record for the Bills. JP losman won the game and thats a known fact.

His playoff performance against pittsburgh led to a loss. It also shows that every once in awhile the sun shines on a dogs butt.

when he started and lost, we still lost period.

Kelly holcomb is a locker room laywer and cancer that the new staff in cleveland really didn't want. He was told he would be their backup and didn't want to stay. He is a career backup from a very small school that never realised he will never be anything more than an average backup.

Pathetic is the day that ANY Bills fan wants a career backup with a losing record starting for the Buffalo Bills.

[ICE74129]

he must be better then Holcomb, whom I believe is a very decent starting quarterback.

Prove it. Show us his career record broken down and prove to us he is a very decent starting QB?

Funny wasn't this broken down on bb.com, Game for game, start for start, etc this last year that proved the man is a career loser.

[justasportsfan]

They are not injury prone? JP 2 season, JP 2 injuries that kept him out of alot of games in both.

KH? I don't have enough fingers to count how many games he missed due to injury.
2 injuries? ONe was a mysterious injury that Moolarkey brought up to get him benched. The only serious injury was the broken leg. Spikes has had 1 serious injury. Evans 1 in college and he's injured again, so does that make him injury prone?

[ICE74129]

2 injuries? ONe was a mysterious injury that Moolarkey brought up to get him benched. The only serious injury was the broken leg. Spikes has had 1 serious injury. Evans 1 in college and he's injured again, so does that make him injury prone?

Justa, I am going to shoot you an im, please read it.

That said MM Made up the injury to keep JP benched. JP even said 'I'm not ALLOWED to talk about it' when asked how he was. We ALL keyed on that last year. JP isn't injury prone at all.

BTW I posted the fact that ed kilgore flat told me he saw JP practice during that time and had NO issues throwing or moveing. The 'injury' was BS

[justasportsfan]

Justa, I am going to shoot you an im, please read it.

That said MM Made up the injury to keep JP benched. JP even said 'I'm not ALLOWED to talk about it' when asked how he was. We ALL keyed on that last year. JP isn't injury prone at all.

BTW I posted the fact that ed kilgore flat told me he saw JP practice during that time and had NO issues throwing or moveing. The 'injury' was BS
TDummy and I used to agree a lot about the DF/RJ days. Now he's just getting ridiculous about the JP situation. Granted that I'm not saying he's the next Kelly, I won't come up w/ some stupid notion that he's injury prone just because I hate a player on the team just like I won't come up w/ some stupid notion that there isn't a fair qb competition just because I hate Holcomb....:snicker:

[Philagape]

The pro-JP argument is so overwhelmingly strong that Justa and Ice are having a civil conversation :jawdrop:

[shelby]

:shocked:

[jmb1099]

Too funny!