Whitners' Holdout Did Produce More $$

[Night Train]

From The Cleveland Plain Dealer

Whitner, taken No. 8 overall in April's NFL Draft, not only has a deal worth nearly $29 million - he's got one for five years, which will make him a free agent sooner than numerous first-round picks who signed for six years (including Browns linebacker Kamerion Wimbley).

Whitner's deal is almost 15 percent higher than that of last season's No. 8 pick, Antrel Rolle of Arizona. Among other goodies in Whitner's contract:

<NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>He'll make $12 million more than the rookie taken one pick after him (Ernie Sims of Detroit) and nearly $4 million more than the player selected two spots before him (Vernon Davis of San Francisco).

He'll make nearly $4 million more than Wimbley - even though Wimbley's deal has an extra year.

Wow.

[YardRat]

Five years is what Huff and Sims each received, so the length of the contract is equivilant to those drafted around him.

Does the 29mil include incentives, or not? Huff's contract could hit 43mil.

How does the 15% increase over last year compare to other 2006 draft picks and their counterparts from 2005?

I may have missed it, but I still haven't seen a figure as to what was gauranteed. 13.55 was the figure in between Huff and Sims, I believe.

[Mitchy moo]

Sounds like his agent did his job, he better play well for it.

[ICE74129]

Sounds like his agent did his job, he better play well for it.

Ok what does that have to do with anything? The BILLS skoob, not Whitner, Decided to take him at #8. So if he isn't up to being good enough in the NFL to warrant that high of a pick....whos fault is it?

Marv Levy's.

[BillsFever21]

From The Cleveland Plain Dealer

Whitner, taken No. 8 overall in April's NFL Draft, not only has a deal worth nearly $29 million - he's got one for five years, which will make him a free agent sooner than numerous first-round picks who signed for six years (including Browns linebacker Kamerion Wimbley).

Whitner's deal is almost 15 percent higher than that of last season's No. 8 pick, Antrel Rolle of Arizona. Among other goodies in Whitner's contract:

<NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>He'll make $12 million more than the rookie taken one pick after him (Ernie Sims of Detroit) and nearly $4 million more than the player selected two spots before him (Vernon Davis of San Francisco).

He'll make nearly $4 million more than Wimbley - even though Wimbley's deal has an extra year.

Wow.

That Marv sure has one hell of a poker face. :rolleyes:

He gets 12 million more then Simms and is gonna make more then Vernon Davis?

Marv is gonna ruin this team. He's overpaid for numerous FA's that nobody else wanted. He caved in to Houston for a 5th round pick in the Moulds deal. And now we got robbed by Whitner. All it takes is for somebody to play hardball and Marv will cave in.

This will set a terrible precedent with our team. Players will realize that all they have to do is put up a struggle and they will get what they want.

How the hell does a surprise pick like him make 2 million more then one of the highest touted impact player in the draft like Vernon Davis who was drafted ahead of him.

Marv must've learned from Butler too much. Cave into the players and pay them more then they're worth to avoid problems.

All Whitner had to do was holdout for a week and his agent knew that an old senile rookie GM like Marv would eventually cave in to their demands first and they would get what they wanted.

There will be many more deals like this happening in Buffalo as long as Marv is the GM. This would've never happened with Donahoe here. Whitner would never have gotten that much money and probably would've been in camp much earlier.

Say what you want about Donahoe but he had a hell of a poker face and got his may most of the time. The players and agents wasn't the one in control of the situation Donahoe was.

Marv is gonna ruin this team. He has been made a fool way too many times and it's only his first offseason. This is a freaking joke.

I know the homers will come back and say "it's not a bad contract. Marv hasn't done anything wrong"

The fact is he is making 12 million more then the guy drafted behind him and more money then one of the most demanded players in the draft in Davis who was drafted ahead of him.

Chalk this up with the rest of the pushover deals for Marv this offseason. Giving people like Price and Reed 5+ million in over the first couple years of their contract for people who haven't done anything in years. Giving Craig Nall 3+ million this season to be a 3rd stringer.

This team is gonna be in even worse shape by the time Marv is gone. This contract is insane.

[Tatonka]

fever.. that was way too long to read, and after the first few lines of whining and "the sky is falling", i felt ill.. but i am sure you had a great point.

[Risin]

BillsFever21, excellent post.

I tend to look at the glass as half full, and I still think Marv is in over his head.

I'm not going to call for his resignation yet, but he has made a few moves that have me scratching my head.

The only thing I can say is, if we go to the playoffs this season, we'll all forget what Marv paid these guys, and how big of reaches they were.

[ParanoidAndroid]

That piece does not have anywhere near enough information about the details of the contract.
I still find it intriguing how some like to jump to conclusions and write a story about a subject they just read about at the top of a thread in a forum. It's really weird.

[don137]

Why do people blame Marv for the contracts? He is in charge of personnel not the contracts. Jim Overdorf does the contract negotiation not Marv. Quit having the sky is falling mentality and he is way overspending. Last I checked the salary cap is much higher than last year. As a result the 15% increase over last year is not that bad. Instead of "Levy" doing a bad job since Whitner will make more than Davis maybe Davis's agent did a bad job.

[DMBcrew36]

Whitner better start, and more than that he better produce. He better be damn rookie of the year.

[Mitchy moo]

Ok what does that have to do with anything? The BILLS skoob, not Whitner, Decided to take him at #8. So if he isn't up to being good enough in the NFL to warrant that high of a pick....whos fault is it?

Marv Levy's.

I really think Whitner holds a little of the responsibility as well.

[BillsFever21]

Overdorf might do the negotiations but everything still goes through Marv for approval.

You think Overdorf just does the negotiations and then whenever he's finished just let Marv know how much the contract was for? Get real now people.

The GM will set the guidelines and the final approvals go through them.

That's like in a workplace where they have accountants make up the budgets but the guidelines is set by the upper management and has to pass approval.

But I'm sure Marv just tells Overdorf do go ahead and do his thing and let him know the numbers after it's finished.

Overdorf did the same job when Donahoe was here but there wasn't these types of outcomes. The GM tells them what they're willing to spend and sets the guidelines for the contract and any final deal has to be passed by the GM.

You think Marv just found out about the numbers the next morning like the rest of America? He knew what the contract was before it was signed. Overdorf just takes care of the dirty work. One person can't do everything. The final approval goes through the GM though and Marv got worked over once again.

[Don't Panic]

Agreed that this guy is playing with some questionable numbers, but if this is anywhere near true, then our management (not Marv alone) is way off. Nothing can be determined about this management's decisions yet, but the one blatant fact is that a lot of people have been doing a lot of defending of Marv and Co. Those serve as red flags to anyone who has followed this game long enough. The Price deal, the Reed deal, the Nall deal, the Royal deal, taking Whitner as high as they did, trading up for McCargo... it's a lot to defend. Nothing has been determined yet... just saying it leaves a lot to be defended.

[BillsFever21]

Why do people blame Marv for the contracts? He is in charge of personnel not the contracts. Jim Overdorf does the contract negotiation not Marv. Quit having the sky is falling mentality and he is way overspending. Last I checked the salary cap is much higher than last year. As a result the 15% increase over last year is not that bad. Instead of "Levy" doing a bad job since Whitner will make more than Davis maybe Davis's agent did a bad job.

How many of the other contracts got 15% increases? Certaintly not #9 who got 12 million less then Whitner or Vernon Davis who got less money then Whitner.

It's not like Whitner was this highly touted major impact player everybody wanted like Reggie Bush.

Does he have pictures of Marv or something? He made this guy at least 15-20 million more compared to where he would've been drafted by somebody else and the contract he would've received. Christ Bunkley only got about 17 million over 6 years and Whitner got 29 over 5? At the very least this should've been a 6 year deal.

It's not like Whitner is a QB who generally gets more money. It's a freaking safety for gods sake and not even the first one selected. This is pathetic.

[BillsFever21]

Not only did he only sign for 5 years and not 6 we also got robbed on the money.

Marv got bent over in the years and money for the contract. This agent wasn't dumb. Marv proved with the Moulds trade and the other contracts signed that if they held out long enough that Marv would bail out and give them what they were asking for.

How the hell does he get more then Vernon Davis and 12 million more then Sims drafted right behind him? And 12 million plus 1 year less then Bunkley who was drafted 5 spots later.

He got as much money as Brickashaw Ferguson too who was the 4th pick in the draft at a much more important position. He got 27.5 million over 5 years. The 2nd safety drafted 4 spots later gets as much money as the #4 pick in the draft and the top LT?

How can any of you defend Marv once again. You see the contract numbers. You see the other numbers for guys drafted ahead of him. He's getting as much as Ferguson? Are you kidding me?

[BillsFever21]

Good thing we didn't draft Reggie Bush or somebody in the Top 5. They would've got 70+ million dollars.

[YardRat]

Five years is what Huff and Sims each received, so the length of the contract is equivilant to those drafted around him.

Does the 29mil include incentives, or not? Huff's contract could hit 43mil.

How does the 15% increase over last year compare to other 2006 draft picks and their counterparts from 2005?

I may have missed it, but I still haven't seen a figure as to what was gauranteed. 13.55 was the figure in between Huff and Sims, I believe.

I still haven't seen any answers to these questions...just pissing and moaning.

The criticism of the length of the contract is just plain stupidity...Huff and Sims both got 5 years, so should Whitner. The slanted report on that fact alone brings the rest of the article's credibility into question.

IF Whitner's top-end is 29mil, then he 'got' a helluva lot less than Huff, who can get 43.

IF everybody else in the first round is getting roughly 15% more than the same # pick last year, then that point is moot also.

IF the guaranteed money is around 13.55, then that's right between Huff and Sims also. Fair is fair.

IF, IF, IF.....but no answers.

[YardRat]

FYI...Ferguson got 17.5mil guaranteed, possibly 4mil more than Whitner.

[BillsFever21]

I still haven't seen any answers to these questions...just pissing and moaning.

The criticism of the length of the contract is just plain stupidity...Huff and Sims both got 5 years, so should Whitner. The slanted report on that fact alone brings the rest of the article's credibility into question.

IF Whitner's top-end is 29mil, then he 'got' a helluva lot less than Huff, who can get 43.

IF everybody else in the first round is getting roughly 15% more than the same # pick last year, then that point is moot also.

IF the guaranteed money is around 13.55, then that's right between Huff and Sims also. Fair is fair.

IF, IF, IF.....but no answers.

Another Marv excuse maker.

Is Whitner worth as much as Ferguson who is a LT and drafted #4? Well he's getting the same amount as him. You see nothing wrong with that?

Every player certaintly didn't get 15% more seeing that Simms only got 17 million. There wasn't that big of a difference between them last year.

We got robbed. Any time the 2nd drafted SAFETY is making more then the top LT who was picked 4 spots ahead of him is insane.

But I realize you're a "Give Marv the benefit of the doubt and he can do no wrong" type of person so this contract doesn't bother you at all.

[BillsFever21]

FYI...Ferguson got 17.5mil guaranteed, possibly 4mil more than Whitner.

Big deal. Unless the player totally sucks and is only here for 2 or 3 years that doesn't mean a damn thing. Over the life of the contract they will be making about the same amount of money if they play out the contract.

[YardRat]

I'm not making excuses...I'm asking for answers, which apparently you or anyone else can provide, or are concerned with, before coming to a conclusion.

The note about length of contract is flat-out wrong...why should the rest of the facts be automatically assumed to be correct?

[BillsFever21]

Guranteed and total money are two different things. The only way less of guranteed money works out is if the player is another Mike Williams and doesn't make it to the end of the contract.

If both players play out the 5 years they are gonna make the same amount of money. The same amount for a 4th and 8th drafted player and one being the top LT which is one of the most important positions in football and the other one being the 2nd drafted safety which usually doesn't make as much as other positions.

[BillsFever21]

I'm not making excuses...I'm asking for answers, which apparently you or anyone else can provide, or are concerned with, before coming to a conclusion.

The note about length of contract is flat-out wrong...why should the rest of the facts be automatically assumed to be correct?

So now the story is a complete lie too? Just admit that we got robbed when we're paying the same price for Ferguson.

This article agrees with the above one.

http://bills.mostvaluablenetwork.com/

[YardRat]

Big deal. Unless the player totally sucks and is only here for 2 or 3 years that doesn't mean a damn thing. Over the life of the contract they will be making about the same amount of money if they play out the contract.

The fact is Brick got substantially more money guaranteed...in his pocket, for sure...GUARANTEED. Who makes more over the length of the contract has yet to be determined.

You don't even have a clue as to how either contract is structured, do you? I don't. What's each player's salaries for the first two or three years of the contracts? Maybe Brick's has more money early, less money late, and Whitner's is just the opposite. Maybe not. Why assume that just because two dollar figures are thrown out there that that's what the end results will be?

[YardRat]

So now the story is a complete lie too? Just admit that we got robbed when we're paying the same price for Ferguson.

This article agrees with the above one.

http://bills.mostvaluablenetwork.com/

I didn't say the article is a complete lie...one incorrect statement that attempts to give a false impression of the facts makes me question the validity of the rest of the 'facts', though.

[BillsFever21]

And how are the years wrong? There were numerous 1st round picks who signed for 6 years like Williams, Bush, Bunkley, Wimbley, Young and Hawk.

That is "numerous" first round picks and 2 players drafted after him. We got robbed. Whether you want to believe it or admit it that's your choice. Or whether you want to make more excuses for this team and Marv that's your choice.

Bottomline is we're paying as much for Whitner as Ferguson and that's wrong. I bet every player after the Top 5 wish they would've fell to Buffalo instead. God knows how much they would've made.

Even AJ Hawk only got 7 million more and he signed for 6 years and was also drafted higher.

We paid Whitner like he was a Top 5 pick and one of the top players in the draft when in reality he wasn't even the best player at his position and wasn't on the radar for the Top 10 with anybody else.

Had we not drafted him this guy would've ended up with about 14 million or less. He's gotta be loving the in over his head senile old Marv Levy about now.

[YardRat]

So now the story is a complete lie too? Just admit that we got robbed when we're paying the same price for Ferguson.

This article agrees with the above one.

http://bills.mostvaluablenetwork.com/

Where in the hell do you get any indication that your link 'agrees' with the Plain Dealer article? That link jusn't pass any judgement on any of the terms, just states the basic 5-year, 29mil figures. Big frikkin' deal.

I did notice however, that it stated Whitner's guaranteed money was 13mil, which would make it only 100k higher than what the Bill's were offering, yet 1mil less than Whitner wanted and 500k less than what he should have gotten if fairly slotted between Huff and Sims. That sounds like a 'win' for Marv, to me.

[BillsFever21]

The fact is Brick got substantially more money guaranteed...in his pocket, for sure...GUARANTEED. Who makes more over the length of the contract has yet to be determined.

You don't even have a clue as to how either contract is structured, do you? I don't. What's each player's salaries for the first two or three years of the contracts? Maybe Brick's has more money early, less money late, and Whitner's is just the opposite. Maybe not. Why assume that just because two dollar figures are thrown out there that that's what the end results will be?

Who cares who is making more the first two years? If they both play out the 5 years they will make the same amount.

They should play out the 5 years. If Whitner doesn't make it the 5 years to equal Ferguson's contract then that's even one more mistake because it would really be a bad pick if he doesn't make it the 5 years of the contract.

They're getting 28 million or so for 5 years. Does it matter how it's structured? That's the price of their contracts. If they play the 5 years that's how much they're gonna get unless it's completely loaded with incentives which doesn't seem to be the case.

It doesn't matter who gets what in the first two years. If Whitner can't make it the 5 years of his contract because he's that bad then that isn't any better either.

And these numbers we're talking between a LT and the 2nd drafted safety 4 spots lower. The same type of money shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath with one another.

[BillsFever21]

Where in the hell do you get any indication that your link 'agrees' with the Plain Dealer article? That link jusn't pass any judgement on any of the terms, just states the basic 5-year, 29mil figures. Big frikkin' deal.

I did notice however, that it stated Whitner's guaranteed money was 13mil, which would make it only 100k higher than what the Bill's were offering, yet 1mil less than Whitner wanted and 500k less than what he should have gotten if fairly slotted between Huff and Sims. That sounds like a 'win' for Marv, to me.

The guranteed money means nothing unless they don't play out the contract. It's not like that's all he's gonna make in the contract.

If he blows his knee out this year and never plays another game then it means something. If he gets cut in 2 years then it means something. He's gonna make that no matter what happens. That's not all he's gonna make though. No matter what that is his money.

If he plays out the life of the contract the guranteed money means nothing. He was gonna get that money anyway. And in this case 29 million means we got robbed.

I'd rather sign a player who will be around for 5 years for 22 million with 15 of it guraneed then pay a player who will be here for 5 years 29 million with 13.3 of it guranteed.

After 5 years you're paying 7 million more. The guranteed money means nothing after that.

Now if his contract was slightly more then Simms for about 21 million that would be about right. Simms got 17 million. Whitner got 12 million more.

What part of playing out the 5 years and earning the money don't you understand? Do you not plan on Whitner being here for 5 years so then we lucked out on the guranteed money? That's the only way it works out.

Guranteed money is his no matter what. If he plays one game that is his money. If he plays all 5 years then that guranteed money meant nothing and we got robbed at 29 million dollars.

[BillsFever21]

It's a steal because Whitner's guranteed money was slotted correctly with Simms' even though he will make 12 million more? Who cares about the lousy 1 million more guranteed. He will make 12 million more over the life of the contract.

[YardRat]

And how are the years wrong? There were numerous 1st round picks who signed for 6 years like Williams, Bush, Bunkley, Wimbley, Young and Hawk.


The length of contract isn't out of line because the player's drafted before and after Whitner signed for five.

As for the Plain Dealer's using their 'home-boy' Wimbley for comparative purposes, his agent also represents Romeo Crennel. It's Marv's fault a player's agent screwed one client to appease another?

[YardRat]

The guranteed money means nothing unless they don't play out the contract. It's not like that's all he's gonna make in the contract.


Huff got 14, Sims 12.9...#8 should've gotten 13.5. But he didn't...he got 13. A lot less than the pick in front of him, a pittance more than the guy behind him. Yeah...that means something. If Marv would've given more than 13.5, you would have been pissing and moaning about that, also, regardless of the final #'s.

I hope Whitner earns every penny of the 29mil. If he starts this year and develops into a pro-bowl quality safety for the next five, then he's worth every red cent. And if that's the case, I don't give a damn what any other player is making.

[Bill Cody]

fever.. that was way too long to read, and after the first few lines of whining and "the sky is falling", i felt ill.. but i am sure you had a great point.

Don't be so sure.

[BillsFever21]

Huff got 14, Sims 12.9...#8 should've gotten 13.5. But he didn't...he got 13. A lot less than the pick in front of him, a pittance more than the guy behind him. Yeah...that means something. If Marv would've given more than 13.5, you would have been pissing and moaning about that, also, regardless of the final #'s.

I hope Whitner earns every penny of the 29mil. If he starts this year and develops into a pro-bowl quality safety for the next five, then he's worth every red cent. And if that's the case, I don't give a damn what any other player is making.

I don't care what the guranteed money is. Unless the player is total junk and only plays here a few years then the guranteed money won't come into play one bit.

I hope he turns out to be a pro bowl safety too. That doesn't excuse the fact that his contract is for as much as the #4 pick in the draft who is also a LT. Each player drafted lower is supposed to get less. This isn't the case.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Geez, there's no way to satisfy some of you guys: first the wanna-be GMs around here say that Ralph Wilson and Marv are being too cheap because the guy is holding out because they won't give him the money that he wants, and the next thing you know they're saying that Marv is senile because he gave him too much: without taking into account, of course, that Overdorf and Levy report to Ralph Wilson and, if Wilson is to be believed when he said that he was going to be more involved in the business side of the team, Wilson is the one who has been approving these contracts (even though Wilson is not with the team at present, his daughter, who works for the team, is and it would be naive to believe that she is not telling her father how his--and in some respects, her--money is being spent!).

Well, you can't have it both ways!!!

I am firmly convinced that the only way that some people will ever be satisfied by anything that the Bills do would be if Ralph Wilson hired them to be President and COO of the Bills and gave them total control over every decision and every move that the team were to make. Well, folks, guess what? That ain't gonna happen! And, if it did, those same people would probably be just as sensitive, if not more so, to any criticism of their decisions and the moves that they would make with the team as T.Donahoe was.

Still, as I've said before, anyone who thinks that they can do a better job than Levy or Overdorf should write to Wilson and try to convince him that he/she can do a better job of running his team and spending his money that the people that he has doing those jobs now instead of posting a lot of complaints on a messageboard where nothing that is written will change anything that the team is doing or may do in the future. It's easy to criticize the decisions that other people make, but it takes a whole lot more guts and brains to put your butt on the line and make those decisions--especially if it is your own money or your boss' money that is riding on those decisions!

[patmoran2006]

The contract is too much money for a 8th overall pick who's going to play safety in a cover two defense.

Thats that

[ICE74129]

The guranteed money means nothing unless they don't play out the contract. It's not like that's all he's gonna make in the contract.



Wrong. He gets that money period unless they redo the contract. The Bills are on the hook for the GUARANTEED money. Thats why the Bills balked at the amount.

Players are to the point that hey this is business, but I'm gonna get paid regardless. Gone now are the days you draft a guy and then cut him and him not have money.

[BillsFever21]

Wrong. He gets that money period unless they redo the contract. The Bills are on the hook for the GUARANTEED money. Thats why the Bills balked at the amount.

Players are to the point that hey this is business, but I'm gonna get paid regardless. Gone now are the days you draft a guy and then cut him and him not have money.

Isn't that what I just said?

His guranteed is for about 13 million and change. That's his whether he plays 1 year of all 5 years.

If he plays the 5 years then the guranteed money won't come into play at all because he will be playing out the contract and earning more then that.

Now if he sucks or gets hurt and only last 2 years or so then it will come into play and he will make the guranteed money no matter what but he wouldn't earn the rest.

That's why the guranteed money is the least of my worries. If he's any type of a player and last the 5 years he will be earning way more then that.

If he sucks and only last 2 years then the 13+ million is his no matter what and it will even suck worse that we wasted a high pick on him.

I know what the meaning of gurantee is. Can't you comprehend English. I only mentioned the same thing you just said about 5 times in the above posts.

[patmoran2006]

I agree with almost BillsFever said.. Except Marv isnt senile.. that doesnt come for another 1-2 years

[Ron Burgundy]

It doesn't matter.

If he does turn out to be a stud, that contract will be reworked or he'll be offered a new one before it's over anyways.

[Earthquake Enyart]

I wouldn't wipe my shoes with the Cleveland Plain Dealer.

Might as well be in a blog someplace.