Day 10: Whitner Runs Second Team & QB update

[Mitchy moo]

Bills top pick Donte Whitner ran with the second team at strong safety in his first practice Monday. The rookie felt he fared well in his first team workout.
"On the field I had to tweak a few small things," said Whitner. "They threw a wrinkle in there at me today that we really haven't seen, but other than that I felt like I did pretty well."
Defensive backs coach George Catavolos, however, had a different opinion. For more on Whitner's first day on the field click on Bills Focus in the multimedia section.

QB Update
The quarterbacks did relatively well, but both were the victims of some dropped passes here and there. There were a total of three in the practice session. There were also a host of false start penalties by the offensive line which disrupted the offensive rhythm as well.

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=3945

[Mitchy moo]

JP, looks to be getting "it"

QB Update
The quarterbacks did relatively well, but both were the victims of some dropped passes here and there. There were a total of three in the practice session. There were also a host of false start penalties by the offensive line which disrupted the offensive rhythm as well.
"It concerns me," said head coach Dick Jauron of the penalties. "One is too many and we talked about it right after practice. You can't have penalties. Penalties will kill any team. People don't pick us to be a very good team. We've got to be almost perfect every time in what we do."
Buffalo's signal callers each had a good day for the most part. Kelly Holcomb and J.P. Losman were both pretty accurate.
Holcomb had an overthrow early in the session, but had just two other incompletions on the day, as few of his passes were challenged by defenders.
Losman had an interception early in 7-on-7. After taking a busted play further than it should have gone (a sack would have occurred), offensive coordinator Steve Fairchild appeared to have him run the play again. Losman eager to make a play threw it over the middle and James Bethea stepped in front of it for an INT.
He settled down during red zone work as he hit Josh Reed for a touchdown on a well-run route by Reed. On the next play he connected with Robert Royal for another score.
Losman again was accurate with the deep ball. During 7-on-7 he hit Roscoe Parrish on a well-timed play that stood a good chance of resulting in a touchdown as Parrish got behind the cornerback and outside the safety.
Buried deep in his own territory Losman also hit Lee Evans on a go-route deep down the left sideline and hit him for a 50-yard gain. The play drew cheers from the crowd.
Jauron gave Losman some credit for his deep ball accuracy, but feels a quarterback needs to be consistent with all his throws.
"The times that I watched him I thought he made some good throws and the ones that stand out are the deep throws down the field," said Juaron of Losman. "But you've got to have them all because those short ones keep those sticks moving and keep your defense off the field."
Losman was also effective in working the hard count during the 9-on-7 run plays. On one particular play he got left defensive end Mark Word and defensive tackle Kyle Williams to jump offsides simultaneously.

[ICE74129]

LOL At our DB coach. Sounds like a guy with a little more ego than need be. looks like Whitner is WAY more ready and prepared than they expected but they don't want to admit.

Did he need some help? sure, but how much compared to the guys here from the start of camp compared to whitner? I am willing to bet he isn't that far off.

[shelby]

From Jauron's remarks that Skooby posted in another thread:
Re: Jauron: Jeff Posey was never looked into playing DE <!-- Start Post Thank You Hack --><!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: post_thanks_button -->[/URL]<!-- END TEMPLATE: post_thanks_button --><!-- End Post Thank You Hack --><!-- Start Post Groan Hack --><!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: post_groan_button -->[URL="http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?do=post_groan_add&p=1587213"] (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?do=post_thanks_add&p=1587213)<!-- END TEMPLATE: post_groan_button --><!-- End Post Groan Hack -->

<HR style="COLOR: #f3f3ff" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message --><!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">On if they have given any thought on who might be the starting quarterback in the first preseason game Saturday:
No we haven’t in terms of group discussion. I have and we’ll start talking about it today and we’ll probably end up with some kind of idea today. And we’ll probably let you know Thursday or Friday I would guess. We just have to see where it goes and where the discussions go.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
On if there is an indication as to who will start:
No, it might just be seniority for this one… or reverse seniority. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Mr. Cynical]

"The times that I watched him I thought he made some good throws and the ones that stand out are the deep throws down the field," said Jauron of Losman. "But you've got to have them all because those short ones keep those sticks moving and keep your defense off the field."

Looks like KH will be starting. Nice move Dick. See my sig. :sigh:

[BillsFever21]

The short ones keep the sticks moving but the long ones eat up yards and put points on the board.

I think he was refering to you need to do both when it comes to completing long and short ones.

Holcomb doesn't have the arm to be able to throw long. Losman does and can get better with the short game.

I'm sure Losman can throw short. Any QB can. It comes down to being focused and looking for the short play though. I feel he's more focused on making the big play and the short dumpoff is his second option.

He needs to be able to give each one attention. If the 1 on 1 is there and for the taking then go for it but start off short and work your way deep down your progressions.

[HHURRICANE]

Mark Rypen won a Super Bowl just throwing a long ball. With that said, based on Jaurons comments, Holcomb is going to be the starter. No doubt in my mind.

[ICE74129]

The short ones keep the sticks moving but the long ones eat up yards and put points on the board.

I think he was refering to you need to do both when it comes to completing long and short ones.

Holcomb doesn't have the arm to be able to throw long. Losman does and can get better with the short game.

I'm sure Losman can throw short. Any QB can. It comes down to being focused and looking for the short play though. I feel he's more focused on making the big play and the short dumpoff is his second option.

He needs to be able to give each one attention. If the 1 on 1 is there and for the taking then go for it but start off short and work your way deep down your progressions.

See and what gets me is if you look the different Videos on BB.com, JP is checking down and hitting shorter routes all the time.

I don't get it other than they want holcomb period

[ICE74129]

Mark Rypen won a Super Bowl just throwing a long ball. With that said, based on Jaurons comments, Holcomb is going to be the starter. No doubt in my mind.
Bottom line is this H, He is an old school defensive coach. He would NEVER throw the ball if he could get away with it.

He wants a weak armed guy that won't ever take chances and play it safe. I guess somehow he thinks we are going to be the 00 Ravens. Sorry Dick, that lightning only hit once.

[HHURRICANE]

Bottom line is this H, He is an old school defensive coach. He would NEVER throw the ball if he could get away with it.

He wants a weak armed guy that won't ever take chances and play it safe. I guess somehow he thinks we are going to be the 00 Ravens. Sorry Dick, that lightning only hit once.

I really don't get it. I've heard of so many teams trying to emulate Tampa and Baltimore's SB teams. But when you look at the history it was the teams that could throw deep and open up the run that has been the winning formula.

[ICE74129]

I really don't get it. I've heard of so many teams trying to emulate Tampa and Baltimore's SB teams. But when you look at the history it was the teams that could throw deep and open up the run that has been the winning formula.

Its no biggie brother. Just let it play out. If there is one fact we know about holcomb its this...he will get ripped apart by the end of game 3. And Be out by game 6. Its just his history.

Let them start him I hope they do. Then when we get blown off the field by New England they can't blame JP.:dance:

[YardRat]

There were some lineup changes due to the departure of Jeff Posey and other factors. Josh Stamer is now the backup weak side linebacker behind Angelo Crowell. Also appearing to make a move Monday was middle linebacker Courtney Watson who was getting second team reps ahead of Liam Ezekiel.

With the arrival of Donte Whitner, Matt Bowen and Coy Wire split time at the starting strong safety spot. Whoever was not in with the first unit, took reps with the third unit as Whitner ran with the second team.

Aaron Gibson, who had been working at right guard with the third unit, took a lot of his snaps Monday at right tackle with the second unit. Dylan McFarland had held that right tackle spot until missing a couple of practices due to injury. Gibson has looked good at guard and appeared to hold his own at tackle.


Watson must really be impressing, and it's great to see Gibson performing well.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Bottom line is this H, He is an old school defensive coach. He would NEVER throw the ball if he could get away with it.

He wants a weak armed guy that won't ever take chances and play it safe. I guess somehow he thinks we are going to be the 00 Ravens. Sorry Dick, that lightning only hit once.

Maybe not, ICE. Here's what Jauron was quoted as saying in the Clark Judge article about the Bills' QBs:

"I'm not a big believer that you can win with a guy who just doesn't lose it for you," said Jauron, "because he has to make plays. He doesn't have to be Joe Montana or Tom Brady, but he does have to be pretty good."
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9588982

I think that they already know that Losman is the guy who is better equipped to make plays for them, but what they are looking for and really want to see from him is consistency in every area of his play: things like taking more responsibility for leadership and the ability to not just hit the big play, but hit a high enough percentage of short passes to keep the sticks moving when the big play isn't there or in setting up the big play, and, perhaps most important of all, not turning the ball over.

For example, Losman had 2 TD passes, but only connected on 12 of 21 and threw a pick--the two TDs are great, but the other numbers need to be better on a consistent basis. And, even if they are second stringers or worse, JP has to find a way to get his offensive linemen to give him better protection--he's got to figure out how to motivate them when necessary and when to kick them in the butt when necessary, etc.

In short, while they want a QB who will "do more than not lose the game for them", they need to see that Losman is a guy who isn't going to lose the game in the process of trying to "do more than not lose it for them". And, they are using the fact that Holcomb has the reputation of being "a guy who won't lose the game for them" and has some strengths in those areas where Losman needs to improve (accuracy, not throwing INTs, leadership, etc.) to motivate JP to work harder to improve in those areas.

I think that Jauron's comment that he could name his starter now, but that he doesn't want to is a telling one. That tells me that he doesn't want either one of these guys to back off because he wants them to keep pushing (ie, motivating) one another. Well, between Holcomb and Losman, which of the two is going to benefit from that the most? IMHO, that's Losman because he's the one who has the greater capacity to improve. (And, coincidently, is the most likely to slack off if he is not being pushed because he knows that he already has the job wrapped up.)

[BillsFever21]

Maybe not, ICE. Here's what Jauron was quoted as saying in the Clark Judge article about the Bills' QBs:

"I'm not a big believer that you can win with a guy who just doesn't lose it for you," said Jauron, "because he has to make plays. He doesn't have to be Joe Montana or Tom Brady, but he does have to be pretty good."
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9588982

I think that they already know that Losman is the guy who is better equipped to make plays for them, but what they are looking for and really want to see from him is consistency in every area of his play: things like taking more responsibility for leadership and the ability to not just hit the big play, but hit a high enough percentage of short passes to keep the sticks moving when the big play isn't there or in setting up the big play, and, perhaps most important of all, not turning the ball over.

For example, Losman had 2 TD passes, but only connected on 12 of 21 and threw a pick--the two TDs are great, but the other numbers need to be better on a consistent basis. And, even if they are second stringers or worse, JP has to find a way to get his offensive linemen to give him better protection--he's got to figure out how to motivate them when necessary and when to kick them in the butt when necessary, etc.

In short, while they want a QB who will "do more than not lose the game for them", they need to see that Losman is a guy who isn't going to lose the game in the process of trying to "do more than not lose it for them". And, they are using the fact that Holcomb has the reputation of being "a guy who won't lose the game for them" and has some strengths in those areas where Losman needs to improve (accuracy, not throwing INTs, leadership, etc.) to motivate JP to work harder to improve in those areas.

I think that Jauron's comment that he could name his starter now, but that he doesn't want to is a telling one. That tells me that he doesn't want either one of these guys to back off because he wants them to keep pushing (ie, motivating) one another. Well, between Holcomb and Losman, which of the two is going to benefit from that the most? IMHO, that's Losman because he's the one who has the greater capacity to improve. (And, coincidently, is the most likely to slack off if he is not being pushed because he knows that he already has the job wrapped up.)

Good post.

The only thing I don't understand is the perception that JP throws a ton of INT's. He had 8 INT's through his first 8 games in his career. It could be better but that isn't an extreme amount. Most QB's throw close to 15 INT's a year anyway and them are vets.

I'd rather see it lowerd to about 10 a season over a full year but 8 still isn't extreme.

[Mitchy moo]

8 is enough, i think.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Peyton Manning set a record for interceptions thrown as a rookie, but it doesn't seem to have had an adverse effect on his development as a QB.

Still, I don't think that INTs are the only things that are being looked at to evaluate Losman (on any other QB for that matter), although they are part of the equation. Indeed, I don't believe that statistics are the only things that are being evaluated either, though they, too, are a part of what's being looked at. Because the QB position is such a critical one to a team's success, the starting QB is looked at as a team leader and there are a lot of intangibles that go into being a successful team leader. While I'm sure that the coaches are going to factor in all of the stats in making their decisions, I think that they are going to also be considering a number of intangibles as well--things that they can see in meetings and interactions with the staff and teammates in the lockerroom, etc. that their experience and knowledge tell them are critical to a team's success (the things that make the offensive linemen want to block harder and better when there are 2 minutes left in the game and the team is down by four points and the QB steps into the huddle and says, "OK, fellas, let's go down and stick it in the end zone and win this game", because they know that if they give him the time, he will take them all the way to the end zone and victory). I think that this coaching staff is looking for a lot of things from JP at this point that they feel that he needs to do to show them that he can be their QB of the future and they're going to give him (and Nall) all the time they feel they can this preseason to show them what he's got.

[dannyek71]

Kyle Williams has been impressive. Was working with 1st team