Is anyone ROOTING for Holcomb to start?

[Saratoga Slim]

I'm sensing a general consensus that pretty much everyone wants JP to start and get the chance prove his worth so long as he is performing at least close to the level of Holcomb in camp.

Is this true? Is there anyone out there that really wants to see Holcomb get the reigns in a tie between the two?

Also, lets hear some guesses on when the official starter will be named. I'd say the perfect time would be after the 2nd preseaon game, as both QBs would have had a chance to start and get a quarter and a half of reps with the first team against an opponent's first team D. At that point, Jauron could have a fairly sound body of evidence upon which to base a decision, and it would appear that a legitimate comeptition has occurred. Moreover, there would still be two remaining preseason games and several weeks of camp reps for the official starter to get more reps and develop some chemistry with the 1st team offense.

That's more a hope than a prediction, but I think it would make some sense. My two cents from here in the cheap seats.

[TigerJ]

I would like to see the starter named after the second preseason game. The wild card is Nall. Will Jauron feel the need to see him start a preseason game before he names a starter. That could be detrimental to the offence because I think they need to use the last two preseason games to get the starter more reps in practice and help him develop more consistency.

[Ebenezer]

I don't care who starts...I could care less if Clump were the starting QB if it meant that the team was moving forward by winning games...We were in 4 straight SBs...I want to win one before this team leaves town...

[ICE74129]

I don't care who starts...I could care less if Clump were the starting QB if it meant that the team was moving forward by winning games...We were in 4 straight SBs...I want to win one before this team leaves town...

See there is the problem. We won't win or 'move forward' with a career losing backup starting for our team.

It amazes me how far Bills fans have fallen. To the point they would even entertain a POS For a QB like holcomb even being 3rd string on this team.

[raphael120]

yeah the point of bringing in all these young guys isnt because we want the super bowl NOW. if that was the case we'd bring in the big name guys like TD did, and still it blew up in his face. you DO NOT, and no team i think has EVER gone from being as bad as we were last year, to being super bowl champs the year after. i think we are building a team right now that will make an impact, like the bears, and i think we can definitly build on this talent we have now, and in a few years, i think we'll be back to superbowl potential. i just dont see how having holcomb start is accomplishing ANYTHING in the regular season... we kept JP and didnt draft a QB apparently because we had more glaring issues...

[ICE74129]

yeah the point of bringing in all these young guys isnt because we want the super bowl NOW. if that was the case we'd bring in the big name guys like TD did, and still it blew up in his face. you DO NOT, and no team i think has EVER gone from being as bad as we were last year, to being super bowl champs the year after. i think we are building a team right now that will make an impact, like the bears, and i think we can definitly build on this talent we have now, and in a few years, i think we'll be back to superbowl potential. i just dont see how having holcomb start is accomplishing ANYTHING in the regular season... we kept JP and didnt draft a QB apparently because we had more glaring issues...

LMAO and what they dont get is, we did the 'insert veteran qb here' with bledsoe...we still had a losing record. Now the last time I checked, Holcomb can't carry Bledsoes jock, so why not just DEVELOP a young guy? Wow what a concept.

[Mudflap1]

See there is the problem. We won't win or 'move forward' with a career losing backup starting for our team.

It amazes me how far Bills fans have fallen. To the point they would even entertain a POS For a QB like holcomb even being 3rd string on this team.

For the record, I am not a Holcomb fan. I want to see Losman win the job outright and earn the starting job.

However, there was once a guy named Rich Gannon who was a "career loser" and went on to greener pastures with the Raiders at a very veteran age and had a lot of success.

There was also a guy named Earl Morrall who was a career backup on bad teams, then led a great Colts team to SB III, and led the Fish to SB VII, undefeated.

The point is, I want to see Losman earn the job, but I'm not going to turn my back on Holcomb if he happens to win the job outright. Stranger things have happened...

Jon

[raphael120]

LMAO and what they dont get is, we did the 'insert veteran qb here' with bledsoe...we still had a losing record. Now the last time I checked, Holcomb can't carry Bledsoes jock, so why not just DEVELOP a young guy? Wow what a concept.

you know i was going to mention how we are worse off than the cowboys, at least they have a little left to squeeze out of bledslow, because drew at least gambles and throws the ball up there and occasionally hits pay dirt with a TD or two a game instead of a 3 yd dump off on 3rd and long. especially with TO there. holcomb is a bledsoe with shorter range and smaller coconuts.

[raphael120]

For the record, I am not a Holcomb fan. I want to see Losman win the job outright and earn the starting job.

However, there was once a guy named Rich Gannon who was a "career loser" and went on to greener pastures with the Raiders at a very veteran age and had a lot of success.

There was also a guy named Earl Morrall who was a career backup on bad teams, then led a great Colts team to SB III, and led the Fish to SB VII, undefeated.

The point is, I want to see Losman earn the job, but I'm not going to turn my back on Holcomb if he happens to win the job outright. Stranger things have happened...

Jon

i think we have a greater chance at the buffalo mascot to come out and play and become like rich gannon than holcomb. least gannon had an arm.

[Patrick76777]

See there is the problem. We won't win or 'move forward' with a career losing backup starting for our team.

It amazes me how far Bills fans have fallen. To the point they would even entertain a POS For a QB like holcomb even being 3rd string on this team.


We won't win one with a POS QB who can't comp. a pass either.

[justasportsfan]

We won't win one with a POS QB who can't comp. a pass either.

Don't worry. Kingsburry won't be on the line up once Nall is back. :up:

[ICE74129]

Don't worry. Kingsburry won't be on the line up once Nall is back. :up:

LMAO perfect justa.

[ICE74129]

For the record, I am not a Holcomb fan. I want to see Losman win the job outright and earn the starting job.

However, there was once a guy named Rich Gannon who was a "career loser" and went on to greener pastures with the Raiders at a very veteran age and had a lot of success.

There was also a guy named Earl Morrall who was a career backup on bad teams, then led a great Colts team to SB III, and led the Fish to SB VII, undefeated.

The point is, I want to see Losman earn the job, but I'm not going to turn my back on Holcomb if he happens to win the job outright. Stranger things have happened...

Jon

Sorry but Gannon had SOME success before oakland. he also had a decent (not great) arm.

[Mudflap1]

Sorry but Gannon had SOME success before oakland. he also had a decent (not great) arm.

Rich Gannon playoff stats before joining Oakland
1987 nor W,44-10 | 0 0 0 0 0 | 3 3 0
1989 sfo L,13-41 | 13 18 144 0 1 | 2 7 0
1995 ind L,7-10 | 5 8 30 0 0 | 2 19 0

Kelly Holcomb playoff stats before joining Buffalo
2002 pit L,33-36 | 26 43 429 3 1 | 2 3 0

Now, I'm not a rocket scientist, but.........

The point is, I'm all for Losman. I want Losman to win the job. I do not think this team is a playoff team this year. Not even close. However, I'm also not going to be quick to throw Holcomb under the bus if he clearly does beat out everyone else for starting quarterback. If Holcomb is as bad as everyone says he is, then Losman should have no excuse not to beat him out. Jauron and Levy have zero motivation to start the inferior quarterback. And don't give me the "it's what the veterans want" crap. The veterans want the best quarterback.

Jon

[ICE74129]

Rich Gannon playoff stats before joining Oakland
1987 nor W,44-10 | 0 0 0 0 0 | 3 3 0
1989 sfo L,13-41 | 13 18 144 0 1 | 2 7 0
1995 ind L,7-10 | 5 8 30 0 0 | 2 19 0

Kelly Holcomb playoff stats before joining Buffalo
2002 pit L,33-36 | 26 43 429 3 1 | 2 3 0

Now, I'm not a rocket scientist, but.........

The point is, I'm all for Losman. I want Losman to win the job. I do not think this team is a playoff team this year. Not even close. However, I'm also not going to be quick to throw Holcomb under the bus if he clearly does beat out everyone else for starting quarterback. If Holcomb is as bad as everyone says he is, then Losman should have no excuse not to beat him out. Jauron and Levy has zero motivation to start the inferior quarterback. And don't give me the "it's what the veterans want" crap. The veterans want the best quarterback.

Jon

Sorry that is WRONG. I am sick of this phraze 'If JP is better he would have no problem beating holcomb'. That phraze is 100% pure crap! I can set up a qb 'competition' where JP could be Payton manning if I wanted. Point being, JP has to be ALLOWED a LEGIT shot to beat him and he isn't getting it so far.

And the veterans do NOT want the best QB esp if that QB needs game time to develop on thier watch. they ALL want veterans regardless. Holcomb has probven throughout his career he is every bit as bad as we make out. he has no business getting a shot ANYWHERE as a starting QB. But only in Buffalo will they allow this joke to go on.

its nothing but further proof as to how bad off the Bills are.

[Mudflap1]

Please give me a detailed, articulate response on how J.P. Losman is not being given a fair chance to win the starting quarterback job this year.

Jon

[djjimkelly]

i hope holcomb is hit by a bus and let the negs roll. but the thought of this 33 year old piece of $#% journey man being our qb makes me want to throw up

[Dozerdog]

Sorry that is WRONG. I am sick of this phraze 'If JP is better he would have no problem beating holcomb'. That phraze is 100% pure crap! I can set up a qb 'competition' where JP could be Payton manning if I wanted. Point being, JP has to be ALLOWED a LEGIT shot to beat him and he isn't getting it so far.

And the veterans do NOT want the best QB esp if that QB needs game time to develop on thier watch. they ALL want veterans regardless. Holcomb has probven throughout his career he is every bit as bad as we make out. he has no business getting a shot ANYWHERE as a starting QB. But only in Buffalo will they allow this joke to go on.

its nothing but further proof as to how bad off the Bills are.I think this demonstrates how poor some of the posts are around here myself....

[Mudflap1]

It's pathological is what it is...

Jon

[bills_7]

i want to see KH's ass cut... have Nall as the back up so Losman can have a clear head..... i think the main problem with our team has been mr. wilson.... i think he makes all the decisions and hires a bunch of yes men... but who really knws

[Mudflap1]

i want to see KH's ass cut... have Nall as the back up so Losman can have a clear head..... i think the main problem with our team has been mr. wilson.... i think he makes all the decisions and hires a bunch of yes men... but who really knws

You honestly think Ralph Wilson calls Marv Levy and Dick Jauron into his office and says "Start Holcomb! That's what I want! Forget Losman, even though he's a lot better, he shouldn't get a fair shake at the job..."

Could it be, maybe, that Losman is given 20 passes per practice, Holcomb is given 20 passes per practice, and maybe, just maybe Losman isn't taking advantage of the opportunity and beating Holcomb out one-on-one? No, forget it, too logical...

?????

Jon

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

[quote=raphael120]no team i think has EVER gone from being as bad as we were last year, to being super bowl champs the year after. quote]

actually, i believe the rams were 4-12 the year before they won the SB in 99... not sure though.

[ICE74129]

You honestly think Ralph Wilson calls Marv Levy and Dick Jauron into his office and says "Start Holcomb! That's what I want! Forget Losman, even though he's a lot better, he shouldn't get a fair shake at the job..."

Could it be, maybe, that Losman is given 20 passes per practice, Holcomb is given 20 passes per practice, and maybe, just maybe Losman isn't taking advantage of the opportunity and beating Holcomb out one-on-one? No, forget it, too logical...

?????

Jon

Well considering that hasn't happened yet, no I don't think its possible. and let me add to that, Holcomb getting 20 with the first string, and JP with the 2nd isn't the same thing.

Sorry Jon, you're wrong on this one. and YES there have been several times the last few years it has leaked out of OBD that wilson has told a coach 'play so and so'.

[Patrick76777]

I think this demonstrates how poor some of the posts are around here myself....


I seriously think that Ice knows JP or something. He's in love with the guy.

[Iehoshua]

I seriously think that Ice knows JP or something. He's in love with the guy.
If he's in love with JP, then you'd have to be classified as in love with Holcomb.

:peace:

[bills_7]

Well considering that hasn't happened yet, no I don't think its possible. and let me add to that, Holcomb getting 20 with the first string, and JP with the 2nd isn't the same thing.

Sorry Jon, you're wrong on this one. and YES there have been several times the last few years it has leaked out of OBD that wilson has told a coach 'play so and so'.

thank u...

almost Jon, do some reseach and use some football sence b4 posting

[Patrick76777]

Edited for TOS violation


If he's in love with JP, then you'd have to be classified as in love with Holcomb.

:peace:


hardly. I don't even openly pull for Holcomb as much as I'm against JP who I think will never amount to anything in the NFL>

[Mudflap1]

thank u...

almost Jon, do some reseach and use some football sence b4 posting


i to see KH's ass cut... have Nall as the back up so Losman can have a clear head..... i think the main problem with our team has been mr. wilson.... i think he makes all the decisions and hires a bunch of yes men... but who really knws


Rich Gannon playoff stats before joining Oakland
1987 nor W,44-10 | 0 0 0 0 0 | 3 3 0
1989 sfo L,13-41 | 13 18 144 0 1 | 2 7 0
1995 ind L,7-10 | 5 8 30 0 0 | 2 19 0

Kelly Holcomb playoff stats before joining Buffalo
2002 pit L,33-36 | 26 43 429 3 1 | 2 3 0

Now, I'm not a rocket scientist, but.........

The point is, I'm all for Losman. I want Losman to win the job. I do not think this team is a playoff team this year. Not even close. However, I'm also not going to be quick to throw Holcomb under the bus if he clearly does beat out everyone else for starting quarterback. If Holcomb is as bad as everyone says he is, then Losman should have no excuse not to beat him out. Jauron and Levy have zero motivation to start the inferior quarterback. And don't give me the "it's what the veterans want" crap. The veterans want the best quarterback.

Yeah, you're right. I'm the nonsensical guy here just shooting from the hip and not making any sense... Guess you told me...


there have been several times the last few years it has leaked out of OBD that wilson has told a coach 'play so and so'.

Proof?


Please give me a detailed, articulate response on how J.P. Losman is not being given a fair chance to win the starting quarterback job this year.

Still waiting.

Jon

[ICE74129]

Please give me a detailed, articulate response on how J.P. Losman is not being given a fair chance to win the starting quarterback job this year.

Jon

it has been there in posts for the last couple weeks. Go look them up.

[ICE74129]

Yeah, you're right. I'm the nonsensical guy here just shooting from the hip and not making any sense... Guess you told me...



Proof?



Still waiting.

Jon

Are you a Bills fan? If so and have been one for more than this offseason, then you know it has come out esp in the Rob Johnson days that ralph has made that call.

Not many here are shooting from the hip. the facts are there, and in mass. All you have to do is go back and start clicking on threads, reports, blogs etc. No one here can help it you won't accept them.

[Mudflap1]

it has been there in posts for the last couple weeks. Go look them up.

I've been reading them. I don't see anything where I can say Losman is not getting a fair shake.

Seriously ICE, this might get me hazed on here, but I respect your opinion, as I do with most zoners. I agree 100% that Holcomb is not the answer, and that Losman should be the starting quarterback on opening day. I do not agree with, at all, that Losman should be (once again) handed the job unconditionally. That is exactly what got him in hot water with the veterans last year. Losman must win a straight up competition. That's the way it should be. I have not seen where any of the coaches have blackballed Losman at all. Someone has to take reps with the 1st team, and someone has to take reps with the 2nd team. If I was Losman, I would be motivated about taking reps with the 2nd team. It would say to me "I'm not getting this on a silver platter." I guess that's just me though.

Finally, and I haven't seen any camp footage, I can only go by what Mikey and others report, if Losman actually played with some consistency, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Either the guy can deliver or he can't. Yes, experience will only help him, but he's either got it at this point or he doesn't. We're not talking about late season battles or playoff games, the guy isn't delivering in practice. Surely if this guy has got it, he can at least be acceptable on the practice field.

Jon

[Mudflap1]

Are you a Bills fan? If so and have been one for more than this offseason, then you know it has come out esp in the Rob Johnson days that ralph has made that call.

Not many here are shooting from the hip. the facts are there, and in mass. All you have to do is go back and start clicking on threads, reports, blogs etc. No one here can help it you won't accept them.

Yes I am, and I bet I know a lot more about the Buffalo Bills than you do...

There is no proof that Ralph Wilson made that call. And even if he did, totally different era, totally different scenario. Those were playoff teams. This is not.

Do you really think Marv Levy is nothing more than a "yes man" puppet for Ralph Wilson? Marv Levy? The guy is about as pure and honorable as the white driven snow. Everything I've heard about Jauron is the same thing. Stand up guy. Whether Jauron ultimately is a successful head coach remains to be seen.

Jon

[ICE74129]

It's pathological is what it is...

Jon

no pathological is even considering a career backup loser for the starting QB job just because you are a conservitive Defensive minded coach. If DJ really wanted a competition him and marv would have went out and got a guy with more starting exp or traded for brees/Cullpepper.

[Mudflap1]

no pathological is even considering a career backup loser for the starting QB job just because you are a conservitive Defensive minded coach. If DJ really wanted a competition him and marv would have went out and got a guy with more starting exp or traded for brees/Cullpepper.

I actually agree with you here. If it was up to me, I wouldn't be having this competition either, I would have gone out and gotten somebody else. Hell, Leinart was available. They could've had Leinart and Losman duel it out, then trade the guy that ended up not panning out. Still probably could've traded up to get Whitner in the first round (about where they got McCargo).

That's a whole other conversation though.

Jon

[raphael120]

JPs getting an equal shake? if it wasnt for the pressure MM was getting from, gee, who else, Wilson, he wuoldnt have yanked JP. how do you think wilsons view of him has changed?

[ICE74129]

I actually agree with you here. If it was up to me, I wouldn't be having this competition either, I would have gone out and gotten somebody else. Hell, Leinart was available. They could've had Leinart and Losman duel it out, then trade the guy that ended up not panning out. Still probably could've traded up to get Whitner in the first round (about where they got McCargo).

That's a whole other conversation though.

Jon

Personally? I would have cleaned house. I would have cut holcomb, traded JP, Drafted Jay Cutler at #8 and brought in a guy like Kerry Collins for 2 years while Cutler developed. But I agree...another story :bandwagon

[Mudflap1]

Personally? I would have cleaned house. I would have cut holcomb, traded JP, Drafted Jay Cutler at #8 and brought in a guy like Kerry Collins for 2 years while Cutler developed. But I agree...another story :bandwagon

That would've been okay too. Only problem is Collins is Bledsoe with a drinking problem.


JPs getting an equal shake? if it wasnt for the pressure MM was getting from, gee, who else, Wilson, he wuoldnt have yanked JP. how do you think wilsons view of him has changed?

JP got the job handed to him unconditionally last year without having to earn it. He was green in the gills, and the vets sensed it. The coaches didn't even try to have any competition. That's why the veterans revolted and Mularkey subsequently had to make the switch.

Jon

[YardRat]

I'm sensing a general consensus that pretty much everyone wants JP to start and get the chance prove his worth so long as he is performing at least close to the level of Holcomb in camp.

Is this true? Is there anyone out there that really wants to see Holcomb get the reigns in a tie between the two?

Also, lets hear some guesses on when the official starter will be named. I'd say the perfect time would be after the 2nd preseaon game, as both QBs would have had a chance to start and get a quarter and a half of reps with the first team against an opponent's first team D. At that point, Jauron could have a fairly sound body of evidence upon which to base a decision, and it would appear that a legitimate comeptition has occurred. Moreover, there would still be two remaining preseason games and several weeks of camp reps for the official starter to get more reps and develop some chemistry with the 1st team offense.

That's more a hope than a prediction, but I think it would make some sense. My two cents from here in the cheap seats.

Very well said. I'm not rooting for or against either QB, just want the most competent player for the job leading the offense on the field when the games mean something.

If that happens to be a journeyman, career back-up with a noodle arm...or a shaky, strong-armed young guy with potential...or a free agent pick-up that's a wild care...I don't care.

I'm not a coach, a GM, or a player, so I'm not going to ***** about who they pick. It's their job to do that, and I have faith they will pick the best QB.

As for the timing, I agree that after the second pre-season game would be best for the team as a whole.

[ICE74129]

Yes I am, and I bet I know a lot more about the Buffalo Bills than you do...

There is no proof that Ralph Wilson made that call. And even if he did, totally different era, totally different scenario. Those were playoff teams. This is not.

Do you really think Marv Levy is nothing more than a "yes man" puppet for Ralph Wilson? Marv Levy? The guy is about as pure and honorable as the white driven snow. Everything I've heard about Jauron is the same thing. Stand up guy. Whether Jauron ultimately is a successful head coach remains to be seen.

Jon

Sure there is proof. And there is proof he fires non yes men and surrounds himself with yes men. and All Marv = is 'Yes ralph...whatever you say ralph...I just want to be involved in the game again.'

Ask Bill Polian and Wade Phillips how Ralph deals with non yes men.

[Throne Logic]

ICE, I think you have things totally backwards.

The veterans need to see JP win the "competition" Jauron has setup the perfect situation for JP to come out on top. I believe Losman is the guy Jauron wanted all along. Unfortunately, due to last year's screw up that led to the "disrespect of JP" by the veterans, this complex scheme had to be created.

JP warms up this week against the Carolina scrubs while Holcomb most likely struggles vs. the starters. Next week, JP starts vs. a somewhat weaker team in Buffalo and locks up the starting job.

It's actually quite brilliant in it's simplicity. Besides, it's the only way to avoid a repeat of last year.

[ibatiger]

Well considering that hasn't happened yet, no I don't think its possible. and let me add to that, Holcomb getting 20 with the first string, and JP with the 2nd isn't the same thing.

Sorry Jon, you're wrong on this one. and YES there have been several times the last few years it has leaked out of OBD that wilson has told a coach 'play so and so'.

This has not happened. Within one individual practice there is some discrepency, but they are rotating and it all evens out.