The offensive line was...

[Ebenezer]

offensive...Whitner and McCargo better be worth the first round picks...this OL still isn't NFL quality. Is there somebody in the Bills organization who just can't get it that you win in this league on the lines? It's been 10 years since we have had anything resembling an offensive line. I posted it last year that playoff teams build their offensive lines (for the most part) with first day draft choices. The Bills just don't seem to get it. I know it was the first game of the season but this line better get better really quickly.

[BillsFever21]

offensive...Whitner and McCargo better be worth the first round picks...this OL still isn't NFL quality. Is there somebody in the Bills organization who just can't get it that you win in this league on the lines? It's been 10 years since we have had anything resembling an offensive line. I posted it last year that playoff teams build their offensive lines (for the most part) with first day draft choices. The Bills just don't seem to get it. I know it was the first game of the season but this line better get better really quickly.

They sure were offensive.

But I thought we took care of the OL in the offseason with the signing of them proven stars in Fowler and Reyes? :rolleyes:

Different doesn't mean better. Just like when many people thought our OL was gonna be better last year because we replaced Pucillio with Bennie Anderson.

They were wrong then and they are wrong now. Even if it is improved it's not gonna be improved enough to be a solid NFL quality line.

Our OL was so bad last year even an improvement on the line still makes it one of the worst lines in the league. An improvement over that line doesn't make the line good.

We had a chance for Mangold this year instead we chose to draft a DT who isn't even a starter next to Triplett. He's his backup. We still have Tim Anderson starting out there which is pathetic.

[Mr. Cynical]

offensive...Whitner and McCargo better be worth the first round picks...this OL still isn't NFL quality. Is there somebody in the Bills organization who just can't get it that you win in this league on the lines? It's been 10 years since we have had anything resembling an offensive line. I posted it last year that playoff teams build their offensive lines (for the most part) with first day draft choices. The Bills just don't seem to get it. I know it was the first game of the season but this line better get better really quickly.

This shouldn't be a surprise to you. I made this comment right after our draft and again during FAcy. I would have thought Marv knew better - and he probably does, but in the end he just couldn't get it done. Our oline sucks....our dline sucks....whoever plays QB is going to get kiled and whoever runs against us is going to have a field day.

Outside of the hiring of Dick, this was the main reason for my "gloomy" outlook on the team. IMO, the key parts of a successful team are NOT in place.

[Dr. Lecter]

This was there first game together. And they did look better than last year.

[BADTHINGSMAN]

Matt Morgan was like a screen door, people were just blowing through him all night..

[The_Philster]

While I'm not defending the O-line, I just love how some people think you can magically get top guys to come in here all the time. Reyes and Fowler may not be great additions...or they might become Pro Bowlers here. It's too early to say one way or the other. But I can guarantee you one thing...you can't find out until they play together in this system. O-line play is so dependent on chemistry and system it's not funny and no one is guaranteed to be a great player. You could put Jonathan Ogden on a bad O-line and he won't look like the Pro Bowler he's always been..not after only one preseason game.

[YardRat]

I still like the fact that Jauron only played six players on the o-line in the first half. The only change was at right guard and Preston may eventually start.

[The_Philster]

I still like the fact that Jauron only played six players on the o-line in the first half. The only change was at right guard and Preston may eventually start.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Preston platooning with Villarial for at least part of the season...similar to how Ostroski and Lacina did about 10 years ago

[BlackMetalNinja]

I said all offseason that this was still my biggest concerns, though many told me we'd be fine with our new additions and what not. I know it was the first preseason game and everything else last night, but they were dominated from the start. They didn't protect Holcombe and they didn't open any holes for McGahee at all. New faces, same problems.

To me, it's just not possible for this team to even be decent with a rag tag line like they have. I hope like hell they prove me wrong and get much better, but last night, nothing looked even promising. I don't care who is under center at this point, they're going to end up on their back either way and with McGahee and the attitude he displayed, if things keep up the same way, I'm afraid he'll be giving up midway through the season.

[ddaryl]

There weren't many OL to chose from in FA that weren't extremly overly priced.

Yes we need an OL, but OL's take time, and there was no way to fix our OL situation in 1 year. Hopefully they;ll be better then last year.

Also remember our newly patched together OL was playing against one of the best, if not the best DL in football.

[justasportsfan]

This was there first game together. And they did look better than last year.


Those who think they would easily blend is out of their mind. It takes time . They were also facing a Panthers D that was going full speed from the very start. You can see how Fox was very intense the whole game. Like I said, typical Marv preseason games are very relaxed.

You will always see penalties when players are trying too hard to make their mark to make the team.

[justasportsfan]

This shouldn't be a surprise to you. I made this comment right after our draft and again during FAcy. I would have thought Marv knew better - and he probably does, but in the end he just couldn't get it done. Our oline sucks....our dline sucks....whoever plays QB is going to get kiled and whoever runs against us is going to have a field day.

Outside of the hiring of Dick, this was the main reason for my "gloomy" outlook on the team. IMO, the key parts of a successful team are NOT in place.


Is this your prediction for the year or just that one preseason game?

[Mr. Cynical]

Is this your prediction for the year or just that one preseason game?

Why would I make a prediction for the preseason? The year.

[justasportsfan]

Why would I make a prediction for the preseason? The year. so you got that out of one preseason game? :coocoo:

"Our OL/DL sucks" easy to make a an obvious prediction about a team that's rebuilding.

[ICE74129]

This was there first game together. And they did look better than last year.

Really? Zero first downs with the first team offense and only had something like 10 yards I believe on 4 possessions? I have to go back and check Tivo because the announcers had a graphic on it.

Bottom line, the OL sucked and sucked bad. Preseason, not preseason, this OL isn't going to magically gell in 3-4 weeks. Its a pretty pathetic OL which = a long and not to pretty season for the Bills.

[shelby]

i'm going to root for them anyway.
:D

:gobills:

[Mr. Cynical]

so you got that out of one preseason game? :coocoo:

"Our OL/DL sucks" easy to make a an obvious prediction about a team that's rebuilding.

I made that prediction waaay before preseason. But instead of saying "oh, it COULD be good" or "you never know" or "have faith" or "Marv knows football" I chose to see the lines for what they were. Putrid. If you can't deal with that reality, then you are the one who is :coocoo:

[Mr. Cynical]

Really? Zero first downs with the first team offense and only had something like 10 yards I believe on 4 possessions? I have to go back and check Tivo because the announcers had a graphic on it.

Bottom line, the OL sucked and sucked bad. Preseason, not preseason, this OL isn't going to magically gell in 3-4 weeks. Its a pretty pathetic OL which = a long and not to pretty season for the Bills.

Don't confuse the homers with reality. They get flustered and personal.

[justasportsfan]

I made that prediction waaay before preseason. But instead of saying "oh, it COULD be good" or "you never know" or "have faith" or "Marv knows football" I chose to see the lines for what they were. Putrid. If you can't deal with that reality, then you are the one who is :coocoo: Tell us where we will rank in both the passing and running game and if you're close I'll believe you. All you're doing is being the master of the obvious. I could've made the same prediction. It's not hard to pick an awful OL by chosing a team that's rebuilding.

[ICE74129]

Those who think they would easily blend is out of their mind. It takes time . They were also facing a Panthers D that was going full speed from the very start. You can see how Fox was very intense the whole game. Like I said, typical Marv preseason games are very relaxed.

You will always see penalties when players are trying too hard to make their mark to make the team.

And maybe thats why Fox's panthers have appeared in two of the last 3 NFC Championships, a Superbowl and is a top favorite to not only go but win it this year? Whereas we are one of two AFC Teams to not see the playoffs in the last 6 years. Hummmm....something to ponder.

[Dr. Lecter]

If pre-season is the indicator that many think it is Ice, the Panthers are going to be terrible this season.

They only beat this 'horrible' Bills team by one point.

Does that not make them a heaping pile of crap as well?

[Mr. Cynical]

All you're doing is being the master of the obvious. I could've made the same prediction. It's not hard to pick an awful OL by chosing a team that's rebuilding.

Glad to hear you realize that it's "obvious" that the oline would still suck...seems to me you just agreed with the title of this thread.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

The reality is that the Bills' offensive line played very poorly against Carolina. In their first real test against one of the best defensive lines in the NFL, they failed to get the job done. First string to last string, the offensive linemen left a lot to be desired. It is no doubt stating the obvious to say that, as individuals and as a unit, they are going to have play a lot better for the Bills to have any chance of improving on offense this season. It won't matter who the Bills have at QB or at RB--they could have Fran Tarkenton in his prime or Joe Montana, Johnny Unitas, etc. or Jim Brown, etc.--if the offensive line does not play a lot better than it showed on Saturday night.

That having been said, this offensive line is still a work in progress, that was just the first preseason game with three more opportunities to get better before the season opener, and, fortunately for the offensive linemen, the Bills will not be facing defenses as good as the Carolina defense every week. So, there is still time and the opportunity for this offensive line to improve--it must and I suspect it will, at least somewhat. But, they still have a long way to go to reach their potential, which is probably to be an average NFL offensive line.

Rome wasn't built in a day and the mess that the Bills were, as a team, at the end of last season realistically won't be cleaned up in a day either. With management focusing on defense in the draft for the first time in years--because good defense and special teams can at least keep a team competitive in games when the offense stinks--improvement on the offensive line was realistically going to be limited. The top free agent offensive linemen were not going to end up in Buffalo and the Bills were never going to give them the exhorbitant salaries that they commanded from the teams that they signed with. Trey Teague was not worth what it would have cost to keep him and B.Anderson was no loss. Fowler and Reyes have the potential to be better than the players they are replacing, but only if they continue to improve their games and gell with the rest of the line. Butler and Penniington have the potential to help, but realistically not this season. Plain and simple: the offensive line was not entirely ignored, but only given marginal assistance this season while management focused its attention on making the defense better quickly.

You can argue that the Bills should have drafted this offensive lineman or that offensive lineman this offseason, but the reality is that, if they had, they would not have gotten the players that they ended up getting for their defense, which may not be the greatest this season, but has the potential to become pretty good in the very near future. While J.McCargo and, especially, Kyle Williams have shown considerable potential to give the Bills a solid four man rotation at DT this season, which should make the defense better, if you have seen any of the other preseason games, other than D.Ferguson (who the Bills never had a shot at drafting), it is doubtful that any of the offensive linemen that they could have gotten in the draft will be any better this season than the offensive linemen that they brought in as free agents: Mangold may be starting, but he was getting pushed around a lot in the Jets' opener, D.Colledge and the other rookie starting for Green Bay almost got Favre killed in their opener, Justice has not been very good for Philly, etc. Of course, all of those rookies could and should get better as the season progresses, but so should the offensive linemen that the Bills have. But, how much better? You may well argue with some justification that those rookies will get much better with time than the guys the Bills have and you should be correct. But, so should McCargo and Williams. And, they are going to be playing and, as they have already shown, contributing immediately. And, if you want to know how important that contribution is likely to be, check out the stories in the NYC area newspapers about the performance of the NY Giants' DTs in their season opener (here are just a couple: http://www.nydailynews.com/08-13-2006/sports/football/giants/story/443005p-373139c.html and http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/story/443288p-373378c.html )--the team that would have drafted McCargo if the Bills hadn't moved up in the draft to take him first.

I don't disagree with those who keep pointing out that the game is won on the offensive and defensive lines--I am "Old School" enough to know the truth of that. But, those who keep harping about how bad the Bills' offensive line is and has been seem to conveniently forget that the Bills finished 31st in the NFL in run defense last season and near the bottom of the league in total defense--with Sam Adams supposedly clogging the middle--and that the new regime at OBD has aggressively tried to address that by not only switching to a new defensive system that has been successful elsewhere, but by adding two key pieces to the four man DT rotation that that new defense requires. In addition, they added a strong safety who can help support against the run while also not ignoring his pass defense responsibilities or, as was too often the case with the aging Lawyer Milloy, getting caught in-between. So, the Bills DID address their lines this off-season--the defensive line--with what should be immediate help. That help was just as necessary, if not moreso, as help on the offensive line. Could they have also added help on the offensive line as well? Only if they had passed on Youboty or Simpson--the two players that most observers felt were the best value picks in the Bills' draft and likely future starters on the Bills' defense.

Do the Bills still need to make improvements on their offensive line? Based on what they have shown thus far: yes. If the Bills intend to compete for a Super Bowl title in the near future, that will have to be a priority before they can do so. One can argue that it should have been a higher priority than addressing the defense and the defensive line this past offseason, but with all of the needs that the Bills had after last season it is unreasonable to think that the team could have addressed all of its needs in the draft in a way that would have provided immediate help. That meant that some needs would have gone unmet--and management decided that those needs would be on the offensive side of the ball. That does not mean that they will continue to go unaddressed, but just that they have not yet been addressed. In the meantime, the team will have to go with what they have got and hope that, with time as the season progresses, their offensive linemen will continue to develop and gell as a unit. If they do, they could turn out to be an average-to-somewhat-above-average offensive line. Is that good enough to win a Super Bowl? No, probably not. But, even if they don't turn out to be that good, management will have a chance to evaluate what they have got and determine what they will need to go out and get in order to get the offensive line to where it needs to be. In the meantime, their young defensive players will be getting better and, hopefully, keeping the team competitive enough in games to allow them to fairly evaluate the team's needs on offense (which they could not do if the team is always down by 28 points).

So, if you want to despair about the offensive line, go ahead. But, be fair about it and recognize that this was a team that had a lot of holes in it at the end of last season that needed to be filled and that's a job that was realistically going to take more than one offseason to even come close to accomplishing. It's a job that is not finished, but just begun. And, there's stil a long way to go yet....