I am over McGahee

[HHURRICANE]

There is no doubt that McGahee does not fit the character vision that Levy has for this team. Although I am not ready to annoit this draft class as the "best ever" you can already see the signs that it is above average.

With that said McGahee would not be on this team had Levy been GM when he was taken. McGahee is a punk. He plays like a punk as well. His first year starting I think he was appreciative of the second chance that God had given him. Last year he was back to his cocky Miami self forgetting that the the Bills had given him a chance and a first round selection.

My point here is that the best way to help your young QB is to have a hard running back helping you get first down yardage. I am tired of waiting for McGahee to impress. Right now he doesn't make the top five of "best running backs" to play for the Bills.

McGahee, starting tonight, had better start running with some purpose or I am going to be pushing the "RB contoversy" instead of the "QB contoversy".

[L.A. Playa]

:rofl:

[justasportsfan]

:rofl:Ditto

[Historian]

Unless he has a killer year I sort of agree.

With his attitude, he belongs on the fish.

Maybe they'll trade us the kid from Auburn for him.

[TacklingDummy]

I hope McGahee doesn't even play tonight. There's no need to have your best player on offense playing in a pre-season games. Plus being a RB he doesn't need as much work.

[HAMMER]

I hope McGahee doesn't even play tonight. There's no need to have your best player on offense playing in a pre-season games. Plus being a RB he doesn't need as much work.

I disagree, Jauron is rightfully creating competition at every position. McGahee needs to play tonight and play well. He has not impressed me since his first year on the field. Last year was a joke, I certainly don't think his job should be safe if he isn't busting his ass like everyone else.

[ICE74129]

I hope McGahee doesn't even play tonight. There's no need to have your best player on offense playing in a pre-season games. Plus being a RB he doesn't need as much work.

Well not performing would be his norm so I agree why play him. He hasn't made any difference since 04 when he is out there so why bother.

[ICE74129]

I disagree, Jauron is rightfully creating competition at every position. McGahee needs to play tonight and play well. He has not impressed me since his first year on the field. Last year was a joke, I certainly don't think his job should be safe if he isn't busting his ass like everyone else.

Yeah right, it just applies to the QB situation. McGahee hasn't done spit but will start on day one even though Gates has stayed here all offseason and busted his ass.

[L.A. Playa]

Coach Ice knows all :rofl:

[Mitchy moo]

He will run like a prisoner who stole something this year, contract year.

[HHURRICANE]

He will run like a prisoner who stole something this year, contract year.

"Running with heart" and "running for a paycheck" are 2 different things. Nate Clements proved that last year.

[L.A. Playa]

just like Bills fans lets take the position with least amount of questions this year and bring up questions and a "controversy" :rofl:

[justasportsfan]

Well not performing would be his norm so I agree why play him. He hasn't made any difference since 04 when he is out there so why bother.your comments every now and then is always good for a laugh. You give JP Losman a pass because of coaching yet you've already decided on Willis. Right now, he's more proven than JP and yet JP cost the team more in terms of draft picks. I don't care if JP is a qb and it's a harder position than a rb. Thing is, everyone that had to do with TD and co. should be given the same oppurtunity or benefit of a doubt that we give JP Losman.

[HHURRICANE]

your comments every now and then is always good for a laugh. You give JP Losman a pass because of coaching yet you've already decided on Willis. Right now, he's more proven than JP and yet JP cost the team more in terms of draft picks. I don't care if JP is a qb and it's a harder position than a rb. Thing is, everyone that had to do with TD and co. should be given the same oppurtunity or benefit of a doubt that we give JP Losman.

When you take a RB with the 24th pick overall with a catastrophic knee injury knowing he'll have to sit his entire first season I would say that there is some cost to that as well. Just because a player is good doesn't mean he's good for the team. I think the Eagles found that out.

Rewatch the interview with McGahee on Fox sports night if you don't see what I am talking about.

This team had it's share of character flaws last year. It's time for McGahee to show he can run hard against good teams. He hasn't one us a game with his perfromance since 2004.

[ICE74129]

your comments every now and then is always good for a laugh. You give JP Losman a pass because of coaching yet you've already decided on Willis. Right now, he's more proven than JP and yet JP cost the team more in terms of draft picks. I don't care if JP is a qb and it's a harder position than a rb. Thing is, everyone that had to do with TD and co. should be given the same oppurtunity or benefit of a doubt that we give JP Losman.

Bottom line two different positions. RB is easy in the NFL compared to QB. its night and day and you can't sit there and even try to compare the two and be taken seriously.

[ICE74129]

Coach Ice knows all :rofl:More than most, less than few

[justasportsfan]

When you take a RB with the 24th pick overall with a catastrophic knee injury knowing he'll have to sit his entire first season I would say that there is some cost to that as well. Just because a player is good doesn't mean he's good for the team. I think the Eagles found that out.

Rewatch the interview with McGahee on Fox sports night if you don't see what I am talking about.

This team had it's share of character flaws last year. It's time for McGahee to show he can run hard against good teams. He hasn't one us a game with his perfromance since 2004.what has Willis done on the field to say he isn't good for the team other than lose faith in the system and coach?

He wasn't the only one who lost faith in Moolarkey. The team and FANS lost faith as well. I don't get it, we all agree that the last regime was idiotic and Willis actions agree with our sentiment and yet it's a problem?

Give him a chance to prove himself before we start asking for his head on a platter. I mean seriously, the guy has had a decent career here inspite of all the stupidity by the past regime.

How can you expect him to win a game when he gets benched on thrid downs and redzone situations? He had 13 TD's in his first year as a starter only to have that oppurtunity to repeat or do better taken away in his second year by benching him on thrid downs and a regressing OL?

Only Barry Sanders could've done anything significant when your best OL player is an undrafted ROOKIE FA converted from a TE position. But I also doubt Barry could've won us games.

[gil]

I think McGahee is a very good back and he's steady - I hope he proves me wrong this year, but I don't think he's a game breaker type of back with speed since his injury.

I too think he'll have a "good" year because of the contract status, but I don't necessarily think it's critical to keep him (again, I'm hoping he really just blows up this year and wows everybody, in which case - pay the man) but if he gives us a little better than what he's given us the past 2 seasons, I won't be heartbroken to see him go - a lot of teams have had success finding very productive RB's in various points of the draft.

As far as the character issue, it just seems that with skill players, you're always going to have a bit of, well, "character" with them. It's not like the kid has done anything wrong off the field or added to any real controversy with the team like some of the "classy" veterans we had around here (unless you count missing the 'voluntary' OTA's).

[justasportsfan]

Bottom line two different positions. RB is easy in the NFL compared to QB. its night and day and you can't sit there and even try to compare the two and be taken seriously.

More than most, less than few
ICE, check your rep. No one here believes your BS. I don't think you should talk about who should be taken seriously when you are constantly being laughed at.

Your posts alone in this thread re Willis is a joke. JP has blown so far as a starter and couldn't even be considered average . Yet we all give him a pass because the coaches set him up to fail, it's a harder position blah,blah,blah. Willis too was set up to fail but at least has been decent.

He had 13 TD's with a below average OL in his first year barely recovered from a major injury that so called experts said he probably won't recover from.

[TacklingDummy]

I disagree, Jauron is rightfully creating competition at every position. McGahee needs to play tonight and play well. He has not impressed me since his first year on the field.

There's only competition at every position when the 2 players competing for that position both suck. There's no competition on who the #1 RB is, WR, LBs, DE, CBs are.

McGahee doesn't need to play tonight or in the other 2 pre-season games. Ask Clinton Portis is he should of played the 1st pre-season game.

[ICE74129]

ICE, check your rep. No one here believes your BS. I don't think you should talk about who should be taken seriously when you are constantly being laughed at.

My rep is at 58K What does that have to do with anything? and yeah plenty accept the fact I know what I'm talking about

Your posts alone in this thread re Willis is a joke. JP has blown so far as a starter and couldn't even be considered average . Yet we all give him a pass because the coaches set him up to fail, it's a harder position blah,blah,blah. Willis too was set up to fail but at least has been decent.

Willis is a punk and a quitter. He has a horrible attitude and hasn't proven anything yet in the league. Now here is FACT Running back is MUCH Easier in the NFL than QB. You lose any and all credibility by attempting to compare the two. Its night and day. anyone that knows ANYTHING, and I mean ANYTHING about football won't compare the two.


He had 13 TD's with a below average OL in his first year barely recovered from a major injury that so called experts said he probably won't recover from.

And? He had one good year and did what last year other than quit? Nothing. if this is a truely open camp, gates has taken his job, but its not so its a non discussion.

[ICE74129]

There's only competition at every position when the 2 players competing for that position both suck. There's no competition on who the #1 RB is, WR, LBs, DE, CBs are.

McGahee doesn't need to play tonight or in the other 2 pre-season games. Ask Clinton Portis is he should of played the 1st pre-season game.

Yes he should have and yes portis will as long as he is in the NFL. Portis is hurt because he tackled wrong, thats the only reason.

willis isn't a clear cut top back. He needs to earn it like everyone else, esp since he quit last year and chose to spend the offseason in Miami.

[L.A. Playa]

this is the funniest thread I have read all day :rofl:

[TacklingDummy]

Portis is hurt because he tackled wrong, thats the only reason.


It doesn't matter how Portis got hurt, he's hurt, and that all that matters.

Like you said, RB is a easy position to learn. Willis can learn in practice. There's no reason to put him out on the field in a pre-season game taking unneseccary hits.

Willis hater. Do you hate Willis because he ave. 90 YPG with KH and only 68 YPG with JP?

[FinFaninBuffalo]

Willis has been a good but not great back so far in his career. Whether that is due to coaching, poor OL play, or Willis himself remains to be seen. This year is a new coaching staff and OL changes. If he fails to improve on the mediocre 3.8 or 4.0 YPC he put up in his first two seasons, then you have to start putting the blame on him. He is still the best RB on the roster, but if he is destined to be a back that averages 3.9 YPC for his career, the Bills should begin looking elsewhere. McGahee is going to want to get paid like the best whether he deserves it or not. His ego will demand it. I'm sure he already feels cheated. He will want to get some of that money back in the next contract.

[FinFaninBuffalo]

McGahee doesn't need to play tonight or in the other 2 pre-season games. Ask Clinton Portis is he should of played the 1st pre-season game.

If he doesn't play in the preseason and he is rusty to start the regular season, are you going to use that as an excuse? He needs some time in the new offense and with the new OL just like everyone else. He doesn't need to play much, but he does need to play.

[justasportsfan]

ICE, you bought your rep by donating and kissing ass in the NO TOS forum. That's a FACT.


Check out you thanked post compared to your groans. It's bovious majority here don't buy into your, KNOW BETTER THAN EVERYONE ON BZ or your I'm a real coach.

GAtes beats Willis at camp competition? :roflmao: Thanks for proving my point, you don't know SQUAT. This explains why youre coaching pop warner. Ignorance at it's finest.

Any real coach knows that you don't judge a player based on attitude alone unless you're TO. Willis is not even close.


Hurricane and ICE, Spikes even said that you should run Willis until his toungue falls off unlike last year and how he is ready for the season when he was on NFLN.Everyone notices the change is the way he moves at camp. Yet neither of you have been there and have already given up on the guy.

I know Hurricane will never claim to know better than Spikes but ICE obviously does...in his head.

[TacklingDummy]

If he doesn't play in the preseason and he is rusty to start the regular season, are you going to use that as an excuse? He needs some time in the new offense and with the new OL just like everyone else. He doesn't need to play much, but he does need to play.

Does playing 1 series really mean anything? Even 2 series?

I sure hope Willis is learning the Offense in practice.

I won't blame Willis for being rusty. I will blame the O-line for not opening up holes for him. And if JP doesn't give us a threat of a passing game, I'll blame him.

[justasportsfan]

Willis has been a good but not great back so far in his career. Whether that is due to coaching, poor OL play, or Willis himself remains to be seen. This year is a new coaching staff and OL changes. If he fails to improve on the mediocre 3.8 or 4.0 YPC he put up in his first two seasons, then you have to start putting the blame on him. He is still the best RB on the roster, but if he is destined to be a back that averages 3.9 YPC for his career, the Bills should begin looking elsewhere. McGahee is going to want to get paid like the best whether he deserves it or not. His ego will demand it. I'm sure he already feels cheated. He will want to get some of that money back in the next contract.
Amazing how a finfan is even willing to give Willis the benefit of a doubt. While some bills fans have already given up because they simply don't like the guy.

[FinFaninBuffalo]

Amazing how a finfan is even willing to give Willis the benefit of a doubt. While some bills fans have already given up because they simply don't like the guy.

Given what the guy did in college, you have to. Since he has taken off the excess weight, he may very well get the burst back. If he does, there is no doubt he can be a great back. I'd be a little concerned over his attitude, but no too much.

[L.A. Playa]

Look at Oj's first 3 years before they got a coach that utilized him right



Playing Stats

<TABLE><TBODY><TR vAlign=center align=middle><TH rowSpan=2>Season</TH><TH rowSpan=2>Team(s)</TH><TH rowSpan=2>Games</TH><TH bgColor=#dfdfff colSpan=4>Rushing</TH><TH bgColor=#ffdfdf colSpan=4>Receiving</TH><TH rowSpan=2>Fumbles</TH><TH rowSpan=2>Total
Points</TH></TR><TR vAlign=center><TH>Rush</TH><TH>Yds</TH><TH>Avg</TH><TH>TD</TH><TH>Rec</TH><TH>Yds</TH><TH>Avg</TH><TH>TD</TH></TR><TR vAlign=center align=right><TD align=middle>1969</TD><TD align=middle>BUF (http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/stats.nsf/Annual/1969-buf)</TD><TD align=middle>13</TD><TD>181</TD><TD>697</TD><TD>3.9</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>30</TD><TD>343</TD><TD>11.4</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>30</TD></TR><TR vAlign=center align=right><TD align=middle>1970</TD><TD align=middle>BUF (http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/stats.nsf/Annual/1970-buf)</TD><TD align=middle>8</TD><TD>120</TD><TD>488</TD><TD>4.1</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>10</TD><TD>139</TD><TD>13.9</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>36</TD></TR><TR vAlign=center align=right><TD align=middle>1971</TD><TD align=middle>BUF (http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/stats.nsf/Annual/1971-buf)</TD><TD align=middle>14</TD><TD>183</TD><TD>742</TD><TD>4.1</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>21</TD><TD>162</TD><TD>7.7</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>30</TD></TR><TR vAlign=center align=right><TD align=middle>1972</TD><TD align=middle>BUF (http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/stats.nsf/Annual/1972-buf)</TD><TD align=middle>14</TD><TD>292</TD><TD>1,251</TD><TD>4.3</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>27</TD><TD>198</TD><TD>7.3</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>8</TD><TD>36</TD></TR><TR vAlign=center align=right><TD align=middle>1973</TD><TD align=middle>BUF (http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/stats.nsf/Annual/1973-buf)</TD><TD align=middle>14</TD><TD>332</TD><TD>2,003</TD><TD>6.0</TD><TD>12</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>70</TD><TD>11.7</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>7</TD><TD>72</TD></TR><TR vAlign=center align=right><TD align=middle>1974</TD><TD align=middle>BUF (http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/stats.nsf/Annual/1974-buf)</TD><TD align=middle>14</TD><TD>270</TD><TD>1,125</TD><TD>4.2</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>15</TD><TD>189</TD><TD>12.6</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>24</TD></TR><TR vAlign=center align=right><TD align=middle>1975</TD><TD align=middle>BUF (http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/stats.nsf/Annual/1975-buf)</TD><TD align=middle>14</TD><TD>329</TD><TD>1,817</TD><TD>5.5</TD><TD>16</TD><TD>28</TD><TD>426</TD><TD>15.2</TD><TD>7</TD><TD>7</TD><TD>138</TD></TR><TR vAlign=center align=right><TD align=middle>1976</TD><TD align=middle>BUF (http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/stats.nsf/Annual/1976-buf)</TD><TD align=middle>14</TD><TD>290</TD><TD>1,503</TD><TD>5.2</TD><TD>8</TD><TD>22</TD><TD>259</TD><TD>11.8</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>54</TD></TR><TR vAlign=center align=right><TD align=middle>1977</TD><TD align=middle>BUF (http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/stats.nsf/Annual/1977-buf)</TD><TD align=middle>7</TD><TD>126</TD><TD>557</TD><TD>4.4</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>16</TD><TD>138</TD><TD>8.6</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD></TR><TR vAlign=center align=right><TD align=middle>1978</TD><TD align=middle>SF (http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/stats.nsf/Annual/1978-sf)</TD><TD align=middle>10</TD><TD>161</TD><TD>593</TD><TD>3.7</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>21</TD><TD>172</TD><TD>8.2</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>18</TD></TR><TR vAlign=center align=right><TD align=middle>1979</TD><TD align=middle>SF (http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/stats.nsf/Annual/1979-sf)</TD><TD align=middle>13</TD><TD>120</TD><TD>460</TD><TD>3.8</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>7</TD><TD>46</TD><TD>6.6</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>18</TD></TR><TR vAlign=center align=right><TH align=middle colSpan=2>Career</TH><TH align=middle>135</TH><TH>2,404</TH><TH>11,236</TH><TH>4.7</TH><TH>61</TH><TH>203</TH><TH>2,142</TH><TH>10.6</TH><TH>14</TH><TH>39</TH><TH>456</TH></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[FinFaninBuffalo]

Does playing 1 series really mean anything? Even 2 series?

I sure hope Willis is learning the Offense in practice.

I won't blame Willis for being rusty. I will blame the O-line for not opening up holes for him. And if JP doesn't give us a threat of a passing game, I'll blame him.

If you think practice is run at the same speed and intensity of a real game, you are wrong. Timing is very important for the running game. Rumors are that they intend to use him more in the passing game. If so, he needs to work on the timing with Losman.

He should play a series or two tonight and at least a full quarter in game three.

[TacklingDummy]

He should play a series or two tonight and at least a full quarter in game three.


What good is a series or 2? A full Qtr. would be nice. Too risky. I rather he sit the bench.

[TacklingDummy]

If you think practice is run at the same speed and intensity of a real game, you are wrong. Timing is very important for the running game. Rumors are that they intend to use him more in the passing game. If so, he needs to work on the timing with Losman.



Nope I don't think that.

Do you really think Willis is going to get his timing down by playing 2 series in a pre-season game?

He'll learn more in practice during the week then he will by playing 2 series in a meaningless pre-season football game.

[justasportsfan]

Given what the guy did in college, you have to. Since he has taken off the excess weight, he may very well get the burst back. If he does, there is no doubt he can be a great back. I'd be a little concerned over his attitude, but no too much.
I've always thought he's far from being a great back. I'd like to see him play under the right circumstances though before I start calling him a bust just because some people here don't like his so called attitude. Alomst the entire team had an attitude when they gave up on the coaches and team. They are willing to ignore the other players .

As far as his attitude goes, he's a hotdog outside of the field. So was Thurman. I will also wait and see what Marv and Dick can do with his attitude before I start judging the guy.

[Saratoga Slim]

MY TAKE:

Willis is a proven back, and I think it's fair to put him in the top 10-15 backs in the league. However, he hasn't proven that he's an elite back, and his stats certainly don't put him in the class of LT, SA, EJ or LJ. Whether that is because of a) our crappy OL and QB play, b) coaching, c) lingering sluggishness from the knee injury, or d) lack of elite ability, remains to be seen. He's still young, everybody says he looks great in practice, and thus I certainly am not ready to call for his head now.

While he is annoying as hell and does not seem fit with the new team-first "character" scheme that OBD is installing......well we're never going to have a roster full of preachers. We may have to stomach a few a--h---s that can produce. For instance, Larry Johnson has a similar attitude in KC, but its worth putting up with b/c he makes the team better.

I guess my bottom line is that Willis is not a divisive TO-type player. It's more that he's not a leader, despite being a high-profile guy in a position to lead. He doesn't add much to team unity by missing off-season workouts etc., or by giving the general attitude that he's there for the paycheck and the chance to prove how good HE is.

Thus, I think its up to Willis to perform like the back he says he is. If he can show that he's a top 5 back or close, then it'll be worth having him around. The Bills can get their leadership from other guys. If he has another just "good" season, then the combination of his "good" skills and less-than-positive presence will be grounds for taking a deep breath before giving him a big contract. We can find another "good" back with a better attitude for much cheaper than he's likely going to demand.

So I think it's up to Willis. Our questionable offensive line isn't going to do him any favors, but I think even in the absence of good line play he can prove whether he has elite skills--lets see him break a few more plays that a "good" back wouldn't. If he does, I'll put up with him.

[HAMMER]

There's only competition at every position when the 2 players competing for that position both suck. There's no competition on who the #1 RB is, WR, LBs, DE, CBs are.

McGahee doesn't need to play tonight or in the other 2 pre-season games. Ask Clinton Portis is he should of played the 1st pre-season game.

Wrong, Jauron has stated it implicitly, there is competition at every position, no one is safe. It may not be called a competition per se, like the QB competition. You can bet that if McGahee comes out running like old man Enyart, Gates will see more time. Some of you guys like to think that because of their "pedigree" a player is untouchable, that is bunk. I think Travis Henry showed more than Willis has to date.

[ICE74129]

ICE, you bought your rep by donating and kissing ass in the NO TOS forum. That's a FACT.


Check out you thanked post compared to your groans. It's bovious majority here don't buy into your, KNOW BETTER THAN EVERYONE ON BZ or your I'm a real coach.

GAtes beats Willis at camp competition? :roflmao: Thanks for proving my point, you don't know SQUAT. This explains why youre coaching pop warner. Ignorance at it's finest.

Any real coach knows that you don't judge a player based on attitude alone unless you're TO. Willis is not even close.


Hurricane and ICE, Spikes even said that you should run Willis until his toungue falls off unlike last year and how he is ready for the season when he was on NFLN.Everyone notices the change is the way he moves at camp. Yet neither of you have been there and have already given up on the guy.

I know Hurricane will never claim to know better than Spikes but ICE obviously does...in his head.

Here is the deal justa and I'll do this once so hopefully you quit taking up the boards time.'

1) I coach and know more than most here period. Some whine 'yeah well I coached too' but not at the level I have nor at the level I am doing now. Its also missed I dont' care you, or anyone else doesn't like it.

2) my rep here was achieved like EVERYONES here. As for as who is groaning, thanking etc, I have about 2-3 little assclowns on here that have went back as far as they can and groaned about every post of mine they could. I think its damn funny a guy on a message board can piss someone off that badly. Hell they have *****ed about posts YOU THANKED me for. So it, like the rep, is a farce and hold no water as to the quality of a post or the quality of the poster period.

3) the stupid barbs of 'pop warner' are meant to try and piss me off. that is a personal attack when you try to bait someone into a return attack. Unfortunately for you, I graduated 5th grade so grow up already.

[L.A. Playa]

Here is the deal justa and I'll do this once so hopefully you quit taking up the boards time.'

1) I coach and know more than most here period. Some whine 'yeah well I coached too' but not at the level I have nor at the level I am doing now. Its also missed I dont' care you, or anyone else doesn't like it.

2) my rep here was achieved like EVERYONES here. As for as who is groaning, thanking etc, I have about 2-3 little assclowns on here that have went back as far as they can and groaned about every post of mine they could. I think its damn funny a guy on a message board can piss someone off that badly. Hell they have *****ed about posts YOU THANKED me for. So it, like the rep, is a farce and hold no water as to the quality of a post or the quality of the poster period.

3) the stupid barbs of 'pop warner' are meant to try and piss me off. that is a personal attack when you try to bait someone into a return attack. Unfortunately for you, I graduated 5th grade so grow up already.

:rofl:

[ICE74129]

:rofl: All I get from the guy is white noise. Blah blah blah.

BTW Why did you quit the fantasy league?

[HHURRICANE]

ICE, check your rep. No one here believes your BS. I don't think you should talk about who should be taken seriously when you are constantly being laughed at.

Your posts alone in this thread re Willis is a joke. JP has blown so far as a starter and couldn't even be considered average . Yet we all give him a pass because the coaches set him up to fail, it's a harder position blah,blah,blah. Willis too was set up to fail but at least has been decent.

He had 13 TD's with a below average OL in his first year barely recovered from a major injury that so called experts said he probably won't recover from.

JP didn't get a pass he got benched. JP didn't say he was the best player at his position in the league. McGahee did. And because of his arrogant statement he fired up D's to shut him down and they did.

[justasportsfan]

Here is the deal justa and I'll do this once so hopefully you quit taking up the boards time.'

1) I coach and know more than most here period. Some whine 'yeah well I coached too' but not at the level I have nor at the level I am doing now. Its also missed I dont' care you, or anyone else doesn't like it. .In your world ,in your mind. Your posts say otherwise.



2) my rep here was achieved like EVERYONES here. As for as who is groaning, thanking etc, I have about 2-3 little assclowns on here that have went back as far as they can and groaned about every post of mine they could. I think its damn funny a guy on a message board can piss someone off that badly. Hell they have *****ed about posts YOU THANKED me for. So it, like the rep, is a farce and hold no water as to the quality of a post or the quality of the poster period..Most people here call it as they see it.



3) the stupid barbs of 'pop warner' are meant to try and piss me off. that is a personal attack when you try to bait someone into a return attack. Unfortunately for you, I graduated 5th grade so grow up already.

Personal attack? You're so sensitive :limp:

So, do you know more than Spikes too who has given his full endorsement to Willis? Don't even bother answering that. Anyone who thinks he knows better than MArv and Dick has to be :coocoo: ILLUSIONS of grandeur.

No personal attacks have been made ICE. I just laugh at your so called knowledge when everyone can see you wear your emotions on your sleeves based on the players on this team.

Don't worry, you're still cool in my books in a funny way.

[HHURRICANE]

Hurricane and ICE, Spikes even said that you should run Willis until his toungue falls off unlike last year and how he is ready for the season when he was on NFLN.Everyone notices the change is the way he moves at camp. Yet neither of you have been there and have already given up on the guy.


Quoting Spikes. Hmmmm. This is the same guy who was comparing our D with the '85 Bears. This is the same guy who still says that Holcomb gives us the best chance to win. This is the same guy who passed on surgery prior to blowing his achilles. I'll take my chances with ICE.

[L.A. Playa]

:rofl:

[justasportsfan]

Quoting Spikes. Hmmmm. This is the same guy who was comparing our D with the '85 Bears. This is the same guy who still says that Holcomb gives us the best chance to win. This is the same guy who passed on surgery prior to blowing his achilles. I'll take my chances with ICE.Haha! ICE over Spikes who plays against rb's , actually is a proffessional and is considered one of the best when healthy?

:snicker: This threads a joke after that post.,

[justasportsfan]

JP didn't get a pass he got benched. JP didn't say he was the best player at his position in the league. McGahee did. And because of his arrogant statement he fired up D's to shut him down and they did.I didn't say he got a pass from the coaches. He get's a pass from ICE. We've come up with every possible excuse as to why JP failed (coaches, OL, etc.) . Granted they were valid, when those excuses are used for Willis, they aren't because in your opinion , he's a punk?

[FinFaninBuffalo]

Nope I don't think that.

Do you really think Willis is going to get his timing down by playing 2 series in a pre-season game?

He'll learn more in practice during the week then he will by playing 2 series in a meaningless pre-season football game.

Are you implying that every coach in the NFL is too stupid to hold their starters out of preseason games? WTF? It's pretty obvious that 32 NFL coaches (along with every other coach in the history of the NFL) disagree with you....

[FinFaninBuffalo]

I've always thought he's far from being a great back. I'd like to see him play under the right circumstances though before I start calling him a bust just because some people here don't like his so called attitude. Alomst the entire team had an attitude when they gave up on the coaches and team. They are willing to ignore the other players .

As far as his attitude goes, he's a hotdog outside of the field. So was Thurman. I will also wait and see what Marv and Dick can do with his attitude before I start judging the guy.
The attitude off of the field is not what would concern me. I watched guys like Walter Payton and Barry Sanders struggle on crappy teams. They were the stars on their team. They made probowls in spite of a poor supporting cast. No one every questioned their intensity or desire to be great. That's what Bills fans should want to see in McGahee. Stop talking about being the best RB in the league and run your ass off.

[HHURRICANE]

I'll just say this.

People will give McGahee's mediocre performance a pass because of the coaching, gameplan and OL. They won't do the same for a young QB.

McGahee announced to everyone that he was the best RB in the league. After that he got shut down. He chose not to show up for OTA's and he get's a pass again. He shows up on Fox and has a chance to recant his incredibly stupid statement and show some humility. Instead he tells everybody he thinks he is the best. Get's a pass yet again.

Now I call him out and people lose their mind around here. I didn't say he was the best back in the league. He did. Put your money where your mouth is and prove it. PERIOD.

[L.A. Playa]

I would much rather have a player say I am a middle of a pack player at my position in the NFL I can think of at least 20 guys better than me, but I am sure happy to be in Buffalo and collecting my paycheck, thank ya masta !!!

[justasportsfan]

The attitude off of the field is not what would concern me. I watched guys like Walter Payton and Barry Sanders struggle on crappy teams. They were the stars on their team. They made probowls in spite of a poor supporting cast. No one every questioned their intensity or desire to be great. That's what Bills fans should want to see in McGahee. Stop talking about being the best RB in the league and run your ass off.I agree. However, no one should count out what he's done on the field. He shouldn't even be compared to Barry or Walter. I've already admitted he's not even a great back while those 2 are arguably the best.

[justasportsfan]

I'll just say this.

People will give McGahee's mediocre performance a pass because of the coaching, gameplan and OL. They won't do the same for a young QB. . The only one I've seen here is TDummy. Otherwise, amlost everyone here including myself has been giving JP a pass because of coaching.


McGahee announced to everyone that he was the best RB in the league. After that he got shut down. He chose not to show up for OTA's and he get's a pass again. He shows up on Fox and has a chance to recant his incredibly stupid statement and show some humility. Instead he tells everybody he thinks he is the best. Get's a pass yet again.

Now I call him out and people lose their mind around here. I didn't say he was the best back in the league. He did. Put your money where your mouth is and prove it. PERIOD.What he's said and what he's done by training in Fla. has not produced any negative or positive results on the field yet this year under a new staff. Yet you guys already want to get rid of him.

I'd rather wait and see before I judge him. I'd rather wait and see results under the circumstances the players are now under a new staff. If Willis still doesn't turn into a franchise rb, get rid of him. But not now.

[Captain gameboy]

Here is the deal justa and I'll do this once so hopefully you quit taking up the boards time.'

1) I coach and know more than most here period. Some whine 'yeah well I coached too' but not at the level I have nor at the level I am doing now. Its also missed I dont' care you, or anyone else doesn't like it.


Frankly ICE, I had no problem with your posts until the Spikes doggin' it theory.

I found it surprising, actually shocking, that someone who takes as much time as you do establishing bonafides would question an achilles injury rehab time on a pro athlete who could lose tens of millions by coming back even a week early.

That post was fatal, in my view, and not in any way supportive of someone who claims to know so much about this game, and more importantly, this business.

Again.....Fatal.

[ICE74129]

Frankly ICE, I had no problem with your posts until the Spikes doggin' it theory.

I found it surprising, actually shocking, that someone who takes as much time as you do establishing bonafides would question an achilles injury rehab time on a pro athlete who could lose tens of millions by coming back even a week early.

That post was fatal, in my view, and not in any way supportive of someone who claims to know so much about this game, and more importantly, this business.

Again.....Fatal.

And its just your opinion. Bottom line a player shows up at the first day of camp and proclaims he wont' play at all in preseason games, has a big problem.

I fully understand the length of injury rehab. Spikes shouldn't have ran his bigger stronger faster BS until AFTER he came back. And you guys crack me up. Oh he is going to lose millions by coming back a week early, BS!

he knows exactly what he is doing and that is DUCKING the preseason. Watch, next year his AC will be 'Bugging him' and he will have to not practice there too. This Veterans whining and not wanting to play BS needs to be ended ASAP. Veteran, rookie it doesn't matter, you don't run the team, you dont' make the rules. STFU and go out and play when told.

And thats the bottom line cause ICE COLD SAID SO!!!

[L.A. Playa]

:spit:

[TacklingDummy]

1) I coach and know more than most here period. Some whine 'yeah well I coached too' but not at the level I have nor at the level I am doing now. Its also missed I dont' care you, or anyone else doesn't like it.
.

"No I have coached NAIA and DIII some in the midwest. Some guys want to keep doing that, I didn't. More money to be made elsewhere and I have my own things athletic wise I do. Not only that I wanted to be a direct part of my kids lifes growing up. Plus I got more out of coaching young kids and Highschoolers."



http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=103538&page=4

[HHURRICANE]

I would much rather have a player say I am a middle of a pack player at my position in the NFL I can think of at least 20 guys better than me, but I am sure happy to be in Buffalo and collecting my paycheck, thank ya masta !!!

How about "I may have been a little over zealous when I made those comments but with alot of hard work and commitment I am going to be the best RB in the league." You can be confident and humble without submitting to the man.

[HHURRICANE]

The only one I've seen here is TDummy. Otherwise, amlost everyone here including myself has been giving JP a pass because of coaching. Losman sucks, McGahee had an excuse, your words.

What he's said and what he's done by training in Fla. has not produced any negative or positive results on the field yet this year under a new staff. Yet you guys already want to get rid of him. Your right here, not going to produce a positive when you aren't practicing with your team.

Yet you guys already want to get rid of him.I never said get rid of him, I said he had better produce. If he produces and lives up to his own hype than i want him in Buffalo.

[dplus47]

JP didn't get a pass he got benched. JP didn't say he was the best player at his position in the league. McGahee did. And because of his arrogant statement he fired up D's to shut him down and they did.

as an outsider (fin fan) not trying to start trouble, but i thought the problems for mcgahee last year were more due to the total lack of a downfield passing game. i know, i know, JP lit up miami's secondary during one glorious quarter in miami, but, other than that, there wasn't much incentive for people to back away from the LOS.

willis gives a great effort on the field. he may have lost some of his burst due to the catastrophic injury, but nobody can say he isn't trying. some of his efforts last year--such as the bills-pats prime time game--were very impressive and go a long way toward earning respect in my book. so he talks too much. people ask athletes what they think too much as well.

[Captain gameboy]

And you guys crack me up. Oh he is going to lose millions by coming back a week early, BS!


Its not BS at all.
An achilles is probably the most serious injury to suffer. If he comes back a week before he is ready and reinjures it, there goes tens of millions in contract money.
No GM in the league pays Spikes type money to a dual achilles guy.

Further, no medical staff can be counted on to reliably predict a performance level after even one, let alone two.
Let TKO rest it. Let him play the opener and see how it goes.

[Captain gameboy]

willis gives a great effort on the field. he may have lost some of his burst due to the catastrophic injury, but nobody can say he isn't trying.

Well, I must be nobody, because he looked to me like he wasn't interested.
The year prior, though we saw no burst, we saw the stiff arm and turning a shoulder into tacklers, powering ahead for a yard or two.
Not last year. Not at all.
I saw no real effort, and no stiff arm.
What I did see was a guy looking for the sidelines.

[justasportsfan]

Losman sucks, McGahee had an excuse, your words. Losman sucked. Past tense. It's a fact he sucked and I've defended him using the coaching staff putting him in situation to fail. Don't forget, Willis played with the same OL and coaches that screwed up JP. Same excuses.


Your right here, not going to produce a positive when you aren't practicing with your team. . sow here are the negatives?



If he produces and lives up to his own hype than i want him in BuffaloAgreed. until then.....

[FinFaninBuffalo]

I agree. However, no one should count out what he's done on the field. He shouldn't even be compared to Barry or Walter. I've already admitted he's not even a great back while those 2 are arguably the best.

He may have the talent to be close though. I think this will be his best year in terms of YPC. Should be interesting to watch.

[dplus47]

Well, I must be nobody, because he looked to me like he wasn't interested.
The year prior, though we saw no burst, we saw the stiff arm and turning a shoulder into tacklers, powering ahead for a yard or two.
Not last year. Not at all.
I saw no real effort, and no stiff arm.
What I did see was a guy looking for the sidelines.

i don't mean to take you for a non-entity. maybe the games vs. miami and new england were anomalies, but i felt the effort was obvious. we all see what we want to see, i suppose.

[HHURRICANE]

Agreed. until then.....

Yep, agreed!! Go Bills!!

[ICE74129]

"No I have coached NAIA and DIII some in the midwest. Some guys want to keep doing that, I didn't. More money to be made elsewhere and I have my own things athletic wise I do. Not only that I wanted to be a direct part of my kids lifes growing up. Plus I got more out of coaching young kids and Highschoolers."



http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=103538&page=4

And? You proved my point.

[ICE74129]

Its not BS at all.
An achilles is probably the most serious injury to suffer. If he comes back a week before he is ready and reinjures it, there goes tens of millions in contract money.
No GM in the league pays Spikes type money to a dual achilles guy.

Further, no medical staff can be counted on to reliably predict a performance level after even one, let alone two.
Let TKO rest it. Let him play the opener and see how it goes.

Patellar tendon is worse, but that said...Mr bigger stronger faster (like McGahee) needs to quit talking and start performing. I dont' care what he DID I am more interested in what he WILL DO. Its also a really bad example when a supposed leader comes out and proclaims no participation in pre season. A LEADER trys to make it out there and at least talks and acts like he wants to be out there.

[BillsFever21]

Why does McGahee have a bad attitude? Because he's confident in his abilities makes him a punk?

Do you people think you're not any good at work and think that everybody else could do the job better and always second guess yourself? If so then I can see why you don't like McGahee. If you think you are good and that everyone else isn't better then you probably don't have a problem with it.

I'd rather have a player have confidence that they are one of the best at their positions then to go out and say "Yeah, I'm not as good as the other guys. I try my best but I can't even come close to matching them"

[ICE74129]

Why does McGahee have a bad attitude? Because he's confident in his abilities makes him a punk?

Do you people think you're not any good at work and think that everybody else could do the job better and always second guess yourself? If so then I can see why you don't like McGahee. If you think you are good and that everyone else isn't better then you probably don't have a problem with it.

I'd rather have a player have confidence that they are one of the best at their positions then to go out and say "Yeah, I'm not as good as the other guys. I try my best but I can't even come close to matching them"

I would rather have a guy STFU and actually DO something instead of talk about it. Willis is all talk. Perform then talk. correction...be like Barry and Perform and then be quiet about it. If you are truely great, then others do the talking for you.

[justasportsfan]

I would rather have a guy STFU and actually DO something instead of talk about it. Willis is all talk. Perform then talk. correction...be like Barry and Perform and then be quiet about it. If you are truely great, then others do the talking for you.kinda like some people who claim they know better than everyone and then has nothing to show for it other than ........?

Well said ICE :up:

[willism21]

Boy, what nice 60 yard run that was by Willis. :)

[L.A. Playa]

still over McGahee ???

[HHURRICANE]

still over McGahee ???

"My point here is that the best way to help your young QB is to have a hard running back helping you get first down yardage. I am tired of waiting for McGahee to impress. Right now he doesn't make the top five of "best running backs" to play for the Bills.

McGahee, starting tonight, had better start running with some purpose or I am going to be pushing the "RB contoversy" instead of the "QB contoversy"."

He did what he needed to do. Let's see if he plays like this the entire season. Maybe the new coaching staff finally has him moving in the right direction. Like the endzone.<!-- / message -->

[L.A. Playa]

so yo uare admitting now his performance last year was because of teh coaching staff ??

[HHURRICANE]

so yo uare admitting now his performance last year was because of teh coaching staff ??

I'm saying after last season he has alot to prove. I want to see him backup his proclamation as the "best back in the league" He seems to like this OL better from what I've read so I'm hoping!!

[L.A. Playa]

if he is not put in a position to succeed by the coaching staff there is not much he can do, last year teams could put 11 guys in the box and I think Mularkey had 3 running plays in the playbook so it wasnt hard to stop him, no RB would have had success with the personnel and coching the Bills had last year

[HHURRICANE]

if he is not put in a position to succeed by the coaching staff there is not much he can do, last year teams could put 11 guys in the box and I think Mularkey had 3 running plays in the playbook so it wasnt hard to stop him, no RB would have had success with the personnel and coching the Bills had last year

I agree. And yes, I do think this caoching staff will help his and Losman's performance this year. I've also said that MM was the biggest issue with our offense. But, McGahee didn't help his performance by making that bone headed statement and incentivizing opposing D's.

[L.A. Playa]

if he believes it then its not boneheaded

[HHURRICANE]

if he believes it then its not boneheaded

I believe that I can kick your ass!!!

[L.A. Playa]

:rofl:

[L.A. Playa]

and I believe I can fly.......... I belive I can touch the sky ..........

[HHURRICANE]

and I believe I can fly.......... I belive I can touch the sky ..........:nod:

[L.A. Playa]

at least im not a pussy like some posters around here and can joke around

[HHURRICANE]

at least im not a pussy like some posters around here and can joke around

I'm with you dude. I love football but it is just football. I don't mind getting called out either. It makes it more interesting. Your the first person I thought of when McGahee took that short pass for 47 yards. I was ecpecting some abuse over my post!!

[L.A. Playa]

I'm with you dude. I love football but it is just football. I don't mind getting called out either. It makes it more interesting. Your the first person I thought of when McGahee took that short pass for 47 yards. I was ecpecting some abuse over my post!!

Ive just been ****ing with ya from the start anyway been slow at work and I am amusing myself glad to see you can take it unlike some of the special ed posters around here