Boomer on JP [Archive] - BillsZone.com

Kerr

08-23-2006, 11:19 AM

Mr. Miyagi

08-23-2006, 11:24 AM

Rivers is gonna suck big time, and all these media people will STFU.

Cutler on the other hand, looks like the real deal.

LtBillsFan66

08-23-2006, 11:25 AM

I agree wholeheartedly with the hectic and erratic statement.

THATHURMANATOR

08-23-2006, 11:27 AM

Rivers looks great so far....

The King

08-23-2006, 11:29 AM

JP Losman is like a 7 year old on a sugar buzz.

Jan Reimers

08-23-2006, 12:52 PM

I hope Boomer likes crow, which is what he'll be eating later in the season.

Jan Reimers

08-23-2006, 12:54 PM

Can any of these friggin' talking heads give JP a chance? The kid has started all of 8 games for pete's sake.

ShadowHawk7

08-23-2006, 01:08 PM

For real. What a bastard that man is.

NC-BILLS44

08-23-2006, 01:20 PM

Rivers will be a very good QB.

Earthquake Enyart

08-23-2006, 01:25 PM

Rivers looks great so far....
The Bears terrorized Rivers in their last game, but the kid was steady, has way better field awareness, and a much quicker release than JP.

Rivers will be fine, and may be a decent fantasy sleeper.

Night Train

08-23-2006, 01:34 PM

Rivers will be a very good QB.

Were he's playing, he has a good shot. Still, he's still basically unproven at the pro level. Don't forget after his senior season, he went from a 3rd round pick in February to the top of the 1st in April based on workouts...NOT game conditions. Since then, he's sat. Pre-season isn't the real deal.

Guys like him and Leinart would be useless in Buffalo during the windy Nov.-Jan. games. They throw to a spot in the short-medium range but cannot throw the deep out in perfect conditions, let alone adverse weather.

Losman can throw a rope anywhere on the field. We have to give him the year to find his consistency. Just keep throwing the ball to Evans. That helps.

FinFaninBuffalo

08-23-2006, 04:44 PM

2. J.P. Losman (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493000), Buffalo Bills: The best way to describe Losman, in my opinion, is hectic and erratic. He is athletically gifted like Brett Favre (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1028), but in no way can he expect to play like Favre. This once-proud franchise, trying to resurrect the pride that it possessed under Marv Levy, has got a long way to go. And unlike Rivers, Losman's supporting cast isn't nearly as good. That, combined with two opening road games at New England and at Miami, could make it difficult for Losman to gain his teammates' respect.

I don't know how you can disagree with this. He didn't predict that Losman will not be good. He simply stated the truth. He HAS been hectic and erratic. How else do you describe a nicely thrown 40 yd pass followed by two 8 yard bounce passes to a WR that was 10 yards down field?

In the limited amount that I have seen Rivers and Cutler, I like the way both of them throw better than Losman. Rivers has a release that reminds me of Marino and seems to have good feet. Cutler looks to have a bigger, more accurate arm than Losman. Losman struggles with the finer points in his mechanics.

justasportsfan

08-23-2006, 04:49 PM

I don't know how you can disagree with this. .
I don't. Losman is as incinsistent as they come until proven otherwise.

~CHIEF~

08-23-2006, 04:50 PM

**** Rivers!

X-Era

08-23-2006, 04:51 PM

2. J.P. Losman (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493000), Buffalo Bills: The best way to describe Losman, in my opinion, is hectic and erratic. He is athletically gifted like Brett Favre (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1028), but in no way can he expect to play like Favre. This once-proud franchise, trying to resurrect the pride that it possessed under Marv Levy, has got a long way to go. And unlike Rivers, Losman's supporting cast isn't nearly as good. That, combined with two opening road games at New England and at Miami, could make it difficult for Losman to gain his teammates' respect.

What a minute a career backup retired vet is rooting for another career backup vet to start? Say it isnt so.

Commentators are often X-players as you know and there usually about a year behind.

So if I think like Boomer for a second (******ed), hes right, I wouldnt start Losman based on his performance in 2004 either.

These clown X-players always root for the vets, and wont let go until they flat out blow bigtime.

Look at how many of these clowns still worship Favre and Theisman was blowing Bledslow like you wouldnt believe the other night.

So, lets put Boomers comments down, and lay a grain of salt on them. Then, squash them like an ant carrying off your last Dorito chip piece.

ParanoidAndroid

08-23-2006, 05:34 PM

What a minute a career backup retired vet is rooting for another career backup vet to start? Say it isnt so.

Commentators are often X-players as you know and there usually about a year behind.

So if I think like Boomer for a second (******ed), hes right, I wouldnt start Losman based on his performance in 2004 either.

These clown X-players always root for the vets, and wont let go until they flat out blow bigtime.

Look at how many of these clowns still worship Favre and Theisman was blowing Bledslow like you wouldnt believe the other night.

So, lets put Boomers comments down, and lay a grain of salt on them. Then, squash them like an ant carrying off your last Dorito chip piece.

1. Boomer was not a career backup. If you look, he is listed as a season passing leader as many times as Kelly is....twice.
2. He says nothing about wanting Holcomb to start over JP.
3. JP has been hectic and erratic.
4. He unfairly tries to predict his potential future as gloomy.
5. How can you not respect what Favre has done?
6. Of course we should take it with a grain of salt...it's just one man's opinion.

FinFaninBuffalo

08-23-2006, 06:14 PM

What a minute a career backup retired vet is rooting for another career backup vet to start? Say it isnt so.

WTF? If you are going to trash the messenger, at least pretend to know what you are talking about. Esiason is 11th alltime in pass attempts and completions and 12th alltime in passing yards and TDs. Pretty good for a career backup.

Commentators are often X-players as you know and there usually about a year behind.

Riiigghhht.....

So if I think like Boomer for a second (******ed), hes right, I wouldnt start Losman based on his performance in 2004 either.

Sure. You could base it on limited action in preseason instead. (please refer to Losman's last game for an example of his erratic play. You know, nice TD followed by INT for a TD, a couple of bounce passes, and two fumbles)

ICE74129

08-23-2006, 06:17 PM

Another member of the media talking out their arse. He knows NOTHING of JP. I bet he hasn't even watched highlights this preseason of JP.

Let the morons talk.

X-Era

08-23-2006, 06:22 PM

1. Boomer was not a career backup. If you look, he is listed as a season passing leader as many times as Kelly is....twice.
2. He says nothing about wanting Holcomb to start over JP.
3. JP has been hectic and erratic.
4. He unfairly tries to predict his potential future as gloomy.
5. How can you not respect what Favre has done?
6. Of course we should take it with a grain of salt...it's just one man's opinion.

1) Boomer will never be a hall of famer in my opinion
2) My comment is about X players always rooting for vets unless the youngster is SO much better than the competition that its painfully obvious, which brings me to my next comment
3) Commentators and especially X players state very little that is blatantly and often painfully obvious. They have no real thoughts of their own.
4) Agree on your #4
5) No one, especially me is disputing what Favre has done. But he is a walking retiree, furthermore he has been wonderful at times last year and painful at times. As a player, I would add him anyday due to what he brings to the lockeroom in attitude. But he, like many, is past his prime and needs to nahg the cleats up IMO. Love him, but I hope he didnt make a huge mistake this year being playing if he leaves on a sour note with a very average year.

My opinion again is that Boomer is siding with the vet here. He didnt blatantly throw JP under the bus like many, but hes quietly there.

X-Era

08-23-2006, 06:30 PM

WTF? If you are going to trash the messenger, at least pretend to know what you are talking about. Esiason is 11th alltime in pass attempts and completions and 12th alltime in passing yards and TDs. Pretty good for a career backup.

Riiigghhht.....

Sure. You could base it on limited action in preseason instead. (please refer to Losman's last game for an example of his erratic play. You know, nice TD followed by INT for a TD, a couple of bounce passes, and two fumbles)

Whoa, is this a blast cause your a fin fan or because you love Boomer? Either way its kind of silly.

I stated my opinion, thats it. I dont put ANY stock into what ANY X player says about ANYTHING. If the hope is for someone to say, "well if Boomer says it, it must be true". Forget it, Bills fans are smarter than that.

Furthermore, it is a typical trend for X players to root for the vet in most cases. Boomer didnt mention KH, but you watch I think he will and he'll talk about how it ought to be KH's job. Annointing a QB because hes the high round pick and the future is just as bad as annointing the vet who has the most experienceor earned it with past years performances. I dont want a starter based on what he did 5 years agao. Its all about what can you do for me now and in the future. Vets dont like that thought because their careers are often headed down and not up and therefore their upside is limited. Pick your starter based on who the best player is with the best chance to sustain long term success.

Maybe this throws salt in a wound because you have a vet who has been mediocre as of late!

Goobylal

08-23-2006, 06:32 PM

I'll take "hectic and erractic" to the tune of 63% passing in a new offense, thanks. And at least Losman's logged time against starters.

FinFaninBuffalo

08-23-2006, 06:34 PM

2) My comment is about X players always rooting for vets unless the youngster is SO much better than the competition that its painfully obvious

This happens a lot less than fans being overly optimistic that the latest player is the new cure:

Todd Collins, Rob Johnson, Flutie, Bledsoe, Holcomb, Losman

FinFaninBuffalo

08-23-2006, 06:49 PM

Whoa, is this a blast cause your a fin fan or because you love Boomer? Either way its kind of silly.

I stated my opinion, thats it. I dont put ANY stock into what ANY X player says about ANYTHING. If the hope is for someone to say, "well if Boomer says it, it must be true". Forget it, Bills fans are smarter than that.

Actually you stated you opinion and based it on a statement that was blatantly false. i don't have any feelings about Esiason one way or the other. I have a dislike for falsehoods being used to support arguments.

Furthermore, it is a typical trend for X players to root for the vet in most cases.

I'd love to see some actual data that supports this.

Maybe this throws salt in a wound because you have a vet who has been mediocre as of late!

Culpepper's last 4 starts produced these averages:

23 cmp 36 att 267 yds 1.5 TDs 1 INT

I'll take it.

X-Era

08-23-2006, 06:59 PM

Actually you stated you opinion and based it on a statement that was blatantly false. i don't have any feelings about Esiason one way or the other. I have a dislike for falsehoods being used to support arguments.

I'd love to see some actual data that supports this.

Culpepper's last 4 starts produced these averages:

23 cmp 36 att 267 yds 1.5 TDs 1 INT

I'll take it.

Wow, 1.5 TD's to 1 int on average? what a stud.

Explain how an opinion on Boomer not being a all star but instead being a very average player is blatantly false. There is no wrong or right here only opinion.

Theisman as I said the other night stated that Drew should just be handed the job because hes the vet. Thats plain BS.

Then you had the commentators saying it should be Warners NYG team even though he was looking VERY average.

We had plenty of commentators saying Kitna should start over Palmer.

Theres lots, it happens all the time. Its a good ole boys mentality about what theve done over the years, not what they are likely to do this year. IMO, its the wrong way to look at it.

Regardless, this is a dumb debate. Boomer most likely has watched VERY little if any of Losman or Holcomb or the Bills for that matter. The fans seem to feel different, and we watch a hell of alot more than he does. Doesnt that make US the experts instead of him?

FinFaninBuffalo

08-23-2006, 07:58 PM

Wow, 1.5 TD's to 1 int on average? what a stud.

That TD to INT ratio is better than Jim Kelly's career ratio.

Explain how an opinion on Boomer not being a all star but instead being a very average player is blatantly false. There is no wrong or right here only opinion.

Now he is "not an allstar" but is a very average player? If you had said that, it would have been a misinformed opinion instead of a blatant falsehood. What you said was that he was a career backup.....

Theisman as I said the other night stated that Drew should just be handed the job because hes the vet. Thats plain BS.

Drew then went out and proved he still deserves it.

Then you had the commentators saying it should be Warners NYG team even though he was looking VERY average.

The Giants had a winning record and a shot at the playoffs at the time. That is what was driving the opinion about Warner. Manning went on to tank his first season.

We had plenty of commentators saying Kitna should start over Palmer.

Did you look at Kitna's numbers in 2003? Most commentators were saying that there was no need to rush Palmer in.

Theres lots, it happens all the time. Its a good ole boys mentality about what theve done over the years, not what they are likely to do this year. IMO, its the wrong way to look at it.

What is the right way? Start the young guy even if he isn't ready? That's what the Bills did last year. For every example you give, I could find commentators that were ready to hand the reins to Ryan Leaf, Rick Mirer, Akili Smith, Cade McNown,.....

Regardless, this is a dumb debate. Boomer most likely has watched VERY little if any of Losman or Holcomb or the Bills for that matter. The fans seem to feel different, and we watch a hell of alot more than he does. Doesnt that make US the experts instead of him?

You have no idea how much of Losman that Esaison has seen. Given the accuracy of your Esiason argument, I'll stick with my opinion that it is much more likely that fans are overly optimistic.

The funny thing is that he never said that Losman shouldn't start.

RedEyE

08-23-2006, 08:06 PM

Boomer has always ALWAYS been overly critical of Buffalo. Even though Jim Kelly and Boomer are friends, I have a feeling that Esiason secretly lusts for the Bills to fail after having kept him and the Bengals from success all those years.

Goobylal

08-23-2006, 09:15 PM

Culpepper's last 4 starts produced these averages:

23 cmp 36 att 267 yds 1.5 TDs 1 INT

I'll take it.
Why are you using his last 4 starts?

YardRat

08-23-2006, 10:17 PM

And yet if Boomer spoke highly of JP, there'd be line behind him singing his praises and commending his football acuity while offering to hold his johnson when he finally steps up to the urinal.

FinFaninBuffalo

08-24-2006, 05:57 AM

Why are you using his last 4 starts?

Because they are his most recent starts. Everyone knows that he had a terrible start to last season. What most people don't realize is that it was restricted to two games. He was 3 out of 4 in his last game before the injury as well. Everyone wants to talk about Culpeppers horrible 2005 "season" when in fact, he had two really bad games.

Also, people want to "forget" that he was sacked 31 times in 6 games. They also don't want to talk about the complete lack of a running game.

We could use his last complete season stats if you want.

Jan Reimers

08-24-2006, 06:07 AM

FinFaninBuffalo

08-24-2006, 07:11 AM

As I remember, Esiason was putrid early in his career. Couldn't he have been gracious, as well as self depricating, by saying something like "I struggled early in my career, too, but people believed in me and I went on to have a pretty good career. If they show patience with JP, he could become a good QB, as well.

Instead, the classless idiot makes his hectic and erratic remarks. He has absolutely no credibility with me.

Your memory is not that good. He saw very limited action in his first season (only attempted 102 passes). In his first season as a starter (his 2nd year in the league), he was:

<table><tbody><tr align="right" valign="middle"><td align="center">
</td><td align="center">
</td><td align="center">
</td><td>251 for
</td><td>431</td><td>58.2%</td><td>3,443</td><td>yards
</td><td>27 TDs
</td><td>12 Ints
</td><td>93.2 rating
</td><td>
</td></tr></tbody></table>
Bills fans would be going crazy if Losman had put up those numbers last season. He took the Bengals to the SB in only his 4th season as a starter. He is perfectly qualified to discuss playing QB in the NFL.

Goobylal

08-24-2006, 07:41 AM

Because they are his most recent starts. Everyone knows that he had a terrible start to last season. What most people don't realize is that it was restricted to two games. He was 3 out of 4 in his last game before the injury as well. Everyone wants to talk about Culpeppers horrible 2005 "season" when in fact, he had two really bad games.

Also, people want to "forget" that he was sacked 31 times in 6 games. They also don't want to talk about the complete lack of a running game.

We could use his last complete season stats if you want.
Why not use his stats from last SEASON in their entirety? Why cherry pick his last 4 games?

And as for his performance last year without guys like Moss, Linehan, and Birk, he played well against bad teams and bad against good teams. That's cause for concern. And Brad Johnson played with the SAME team and played MUCH better, which played into the Vikes' decision to trade him.

And he's always been a sack magnet, a fumbler, and throws an INT a game on average.

FinFaninBuffalo

08-24-2006, 07:55 AM

Why not use his stats from last SEASON in their entirety? Why cherry pick his last 4 games?

And as for his performance last year without guys like Moss, Linehan, and Birk, he played well against bad teams and bad against good teams. That's cause for concern. And Brad Johnson played with the SAME team and played MUCH better, which played into the Vikes' decision to trade him.

And he's always been a sack magnet, a fumbler, and throws an INT a game on average.

Picking his most recent games isn't cherry picking. Use his career numbers instead. Why cherry pick one season?

He is also responsble for 2 TDs (passing and rushing) per game on average. That gives him a 2 to 1 TD to Int ratio, which is outstanding.

There is no doubt he struggled at the beginning of last season. So what. There is a 7 year career to compare those games against. His career numbers are fantastic. Keep clinging to a 2 game stretch out of an 81 game career. It will just make Fin fans laugh harder.

justasportsfan

08-24-2006, 09:13 AM

Boomer cracks me up. He loves picking on Dan. Granted he's got nothing on Dan in terms of career, the pissed off look on Dan's face is proceless.

SABURZFAN

08-24-2006, 09:21 AM

I agree wholeheartedly with the hectic and erratic statement.

i bet he looks like a different QB if he had an OL in front of him.

Goobylal

08-24-2006, 09:23 AM

Picking his most recent games isn't cherry picking. Use his career numbers instead. Why cherry pick one season?

He is also responsble for 2 TDs (passing and rushing) per game on average. That gives him a 2 to 1 TD to Int ratio, which is outstanding.

There is no doubt he struggled at the beginning of last season. So what. There is a 7 year career to compare those games against. His career numbers are fantastic. Keep clinging to a 2 game stretch out of an 81 game career. It will just make Fin fans laugh harder.
The reason why I focus on last year is because it was his first year without Moss, Matt Birk, and Scott Linehan, all standout players/coach. I also look at how the offense immediately picked-up when Brad Johnson was in there, with the exact same players. Then there's the injury to worry about as well.

FinFaninBuffalo

08-24-2006, 09:47 AM

The reason why I focus on last year is because it was his first year without Moss, Matt Birk, and Scott Linehan, all standout players/coach. I also look at how the offense immediately picked-up when Brad Johnson was in there, with the exact same players. Then there's the injury to worry about as well.

He was without Moss for a good part of 2004. That didn't seem to hurt him too much. The offense picked up when the schedule got easy. Also, Birk came back from injury and the team had more time to work into the new offense. They also became more conservative.

Culpepper deserves his share of the blame for the beginning of 2005, but it does not overshadow what he had done in his career.

Carlton Bailey

08-24-2006, 11:30 AM

I don't care if people like Boomer say this after Losman's been given a fighting chance, but he's played only eight games. Why is it that everyone else gets a pass because they're "young" but guys like Losman are given up on after not even playing a season? It's such a double standard. Losman's stats thru eight are very similar to Eli's first eight.

And that doesn't mean he'll be good or bad. It is what it is for a young QB.

Forward_Lateral

08-24-2006, 11:33 AM

Boomer Esiason a career backup :rofl:

Someone needs to yank head from skrote.

bledslow

08-24-2006, 11:34 AM

What a minute a career backup retired vet is rooting for another career backup vet to start? Say it isnt so.

Commentators are often X-players as you know and there usually about a year behind.

So if I think like Boomer for a second (******ed), hes right, I wouldnt start Losman based on his performance in 2004 either.

These clown X-players always root for the vets, and wont let go until they flat out blow bigtime.

Look at how many of these clowns still worship Favre and Theisman was blowing Bledslow like you wouldnt believe the other night.

So, lets put Boomers comments down, and lay a grain of salt on them. Then, squash them like an ant carrying off your last Dorito chip piece.

Holy crap batman---mods can posters be banned for life for complete cluelessness???? Boomer was a heck of a qb for a long time-he can juge these things better then you(actually everybody can),what he said was SPOT ON-

JP will be out of this league in 3 years

Goobylal

08-24-2006, 03:25 PM

He was without Moss for a good part of 2004. That didn't seem to hurt him too much. The offense picked up when the schedule got easy. Also, Birk came back from injury and the team had more time to work into the new offense. They also became more conservative.
Moss played in 13 games in 2004, and while he played hurt in a lot of those games, his presence STILL commanded extra attention from opposing defenses, to the tune of Nate Burleson being considered a top WR (which he wasn't). And Matt Birk didn't play at all last year.

As for the offense becoming more conservative after BJ went in, that's true. Culpepper threw about 35 times a game in the first 6 games (I discounted game 7 because of injury) and BJ threw around 29 times a game in the remaining 10. But what does "more conservative" mean? It means running the ball more. But you yourself said the running game was bad. Yet they were winning.

Culpepper deserves his share of the blame for the beginning of 2005, but it does not overshadow what he had done in his career.
If nothing had changed over the off-season, I'd be willing to give DC a pass for last year, chalking it up as a down year. But suffice it to say that even if you DO want to give him a pass for last year, his O-line won't be as good in Miami as it was in Minny (there's no one on the Miami O-line I'd take over a corresponding player on the Vikes' O-line, especially at the tackle and center spots), he won't have a player of Moss' caliber (Chambers is good when his head is in the game, but...) to throw to, and went from having an OC like Linehan to having an OC like Mularkey (see last year's Bills offense). Plus he's got the injured knee that's still not close to 100% yet.

FinFaninBuffalo

08-24-2006, 03:51 PM

Moss played in 13 games in 2004, and while he played hurt in a lot of those games, his presence STILL commanded extra attention from opposing defenses, to the tune of Nate Burleson being considered a top WR (which he wasn't). And Matt Birk didn't play at all last year.

As for the offense becoming more conservative after BJ went in, that's true. Culpepper threw about 35 times a game in the first 6 games (I discounted game 7 because of injury) and BJ threw around 29 times a game in the remaining 10. But what does "more conservative" mean? It means running the ball more. But you yourself said the running game was bad. Yet they were winning.

If nothing had changed over the off-season, I'd be willing to give DC a pass for last year, chalking it up as a down year. But suffice it to say that even if you DO want to give him a pass for last year, his O-line won't be as good in Miami as it was in Minny (there's no one on the Miami O-line I'd take over a corresponding player on the Vikes' O-line, especially at the tackle and center spots), he won't have a player of Moss' caliber (Chambers is good when his head is in the game, but...) to throw to, and went from having an OC like Linehan to having an OC like Mularkey (see last year's Bills offense). Plus he's got the injured knee that's still not close to 100% yet.
The Vikings OL gave up truck loads of sacks at the beginning of the season last year. The Fins line gave up 4th least in the league. You do the math. The fact is that the whole team underperformed in the beginning of last season. Why? New system, injuries, pressing too much, better opponents. Probably all of the above.

He will also have a much better running back and a much better defense. He was forced to go for broke in Minn because their defense ranked among the worst in the league.

You have no idea what condition his knee is in. All we know is that he has been cleared to play. I expect that he will perform at least as well as he did in the last 4 games of last season. Hopefully we will see the Culpepper from 2004. That is the worst nightmare for the rest of the teams in the AFCE.

You cannot take away the fact that Culpepper had one of the best seasons in the history of the league in 2004. The Moss factor is overstated. He was hurt for much of that season and everyone knew it. Based on your reasoning, Kerry Collins should have been league MVP last season.

The Bills are hoping that their QB will show that he belongs in the NFL. The Fins are hoping that theirs returns to his probowl/MVP candidate form. Which would you rather have?

Goobylal

08-24-2006, 09:09 PM

Yes Culpepper had a great 2004 season. But Moss was a BIG reason for it. You can deny that all you want, but it's a fact. Moss is a game-changer and like I said, even INJURED you have to still pay extra attention to him.

As for the sacks Miami gave up, Frerotte has had a knack for not getting sacked a whole lot. The number of sacks he took last year were in-line with his career sacks-taken numbers.

FinFaninBuffalo

08-24-2006, 09:28 PM

Yes Culpepper had a great 2004 season. But Moss was a BIG reason for it. You can deny that all you want, but it's a fact. Moss is a game-changer and like I said, even INJURED you have to still pay extra attention to him.
Blah, blah, blah.... Name a great QB that doesn't have a great WR to throw to. Rice, Harrison, Owens.... those names ring a bell? You didn't explain why Kerry Collins wasn't league MVP last season. If it is all Moss, surely Collins would be the best QB.

Goobylal

08-24-2006, 10:10 PM

Collins had 3759 yards in 15 games of action last year. Extrapolated over a 16 game season and that's over 4,000 yards. Not too shabby on a new team and new system.

X-Era

08-25-2006, 07:01 AM

That TD to INT ratio is better than Jim Kelly's career ratio.

Now he is "not an allstar" but is a very average player? If you had said that, it would have been a misinformed opinion instead of a blatant falsehood. What you said was that he was a career backup.....

Drew then went out and proved he still deserves it.

The Giants had a winning record and a shot at the playoffs at the time. That is what was driving the opinion about Warner. Manning went on to tank his first season.

Did you look at Kitna's numbers in 2003? Most commentators were saying that there was no need to rush Palmer in.

You have no idea how much of Losman that Esaison has seen. Given the accuracy of your Esiason argument, I'll stick with my opinion that it is much more likely that fans are overly optimistic.

The funny thing is that he never said that Losman shouldn't start.

Lets make this perfectly clear, for everyone.

Boomer is NOT a career backup. I retract that statement. It was meant as an inflammatory remark. However, Boomer is also NOT a hall of famer IMO.

What Boomer IS is another x player who underestimates young talent, overestimates the abilities of veterans on the downturn, and another media type stuck on what the player has done rather than what they likely will do.

As I said before, I put little to no stock in what an X player states. And for the record, even if he were to call JP the messiah, I still wouldnt put much stock in it.

I love Jim Kelly, but his comments about JP looking like the guy, dont really mean that much to me either. The only part I like is that our home grown hero is routing for our youngster QB. But as far as Jim knowing who should start or having a crystal ball or even a strong eye at talent, Im not so sure about that.

Its not a character attack on any X-player. I really dont trust the media much at all period.

My comments on Boomers comment are simple. It is my belief that he is casting doubt on him because its easy. Its typical media crap. They take the most likely or easiest route. Its easy to think that JP will be erratic, he young and inexperinced. Way to go out on on limb there Boomer. Define erratic, is there a single QB in the league that doesnt look erratic from time to time? Boomer can throw out non-specific comments like this and then sit back and when JP does have an erratic play, he can say "see I told ya so".

If Boomers so damn smart, come out and give us his prediction on JP's 2006 stats. THAT is specific thoughts.

Overall, the media is classic for stating the obvious, living in last week at best, often last year, never going out on a limb, and throwing out non-specific comments that are difficult to prove/disprove.

If anyone here wants to suddenly change their minds on JP based on what Boomer says, have at it. Id be willing to bet that there is NO ONE who actually would do it. The people who like Boomers comments, didnt like JP to start, and the rest of us (the majority), simply discard his comments entirely.

Basically the post doesnt accomplish anything. It didnt change anyones minds one way or the other.