And at #8 the Bills choose....

[Mr. Cynical]

We had the choice. Who so far looks to be worth the #8 pick?


P.S. Fox article on Leinart against the Bears:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5901566

[OpIv37]

I'm not sold on Whitner, but I think it was a good choice to pass on Leinart.

Time will tell.

[Mr. Cynical]

I realize that at the time of the draft JP had only 8 games under his belt behind a putrid oline and coaching staff, so it's not a "gimme" to take yet another QB. However, like Bush, I think Leinart is one of those special ones you take if you have the chance. Preseason is a far cry from the regular season so we don't know the real deal just yet, but even with his limited NFL exposure you can see he has "it".

Nothing against Whitner - he may turn out to be a solid safety - but you build franchises around QB, RB and to some degree LT.

[OpIv37]

I realize that at the time of the draft JP had only 8 games under his belt behind a putrid oline and coaching staff, so it's not a "gimme" to take yet another QB. However, like Bush, I think Leinart is one of those special ones you take if you have the chance. Preseason is a far cry from the regular season so we don't know the real deal just yet, but even with his limited NFL exposure you can see he has "it".

Nothing against Whitner - he may turn out to be a solid safety - but you build franchises around QB, RB and to some degree LT.

I see your point and what it comes down to is this:

The Whitner pick was questionable and the kid better show something quick to justify Marv's selection. Otherwise we're right back to where TD left us- 5 years of bad to mediocre drafts that hosed this franchise.

[Typ0]

Leinhart or Cutler was the right pick. Nothing against DW but those two guys have much higher market value for the same price here. Also, we need the QB position solved and we would have had much better odds of having it solved with two very talented prospects instead of one.

[The_Philster]

Leinhart or Cutler was the right pick. Nothing against DW but those two guys have much higher market value for the same price here. Also, we need the QB position solved and we would have had much better odds of having it solved with two very talented prospects instead of one.
why stop at 2? Let's tank the season...jerk around another young guy this year..and grab Brady Quinn next year :rolleyes:

[John Doe]

This year's draft could go down as one of the best ever for the Bills. There is the distinct possibility that it could eventually produce 6 starters on defense and maybe a couple on offense.

I think that the front office did an outstanding job. They tried to maximize the production of the draft by allowing Losman to develop instead of drafting another QB.

[Typ0]

why stop at 2? Let's tank the season...jerk around another young guy this year..and grab Brady Quinn next year :rolleyes:

I thought you hooted and hollered about taking a statistics class once! how would it be jerking someone around?

[The_Philster]

I've never hooted and hollered for one
For another, the coaches jerked around JP last year...how was he supposed to improve much like that?

[clumping platelets]

Brady Quinn = $30 million guaranteed money

:no:

[Mitchy moo]

Brady Quinn = $30 million guaranteed money

:no:

I think he is great, he may end being worth more.

[THATHURMANATOR]

He hasn't even finished his senior college season yet. What if he tanks this year or is injured.

Whitner will be a solid/great Safety for years. I can't see Leinert in Buffalo. For one he doesn't have a strong arm. How would he play in the winter months? Secondly he is Mr. Hollywood. I can't see him being happy here.

[Mitchy moo]

He hasn't even finished his senior college season yet. What if he tanks this year or is injured.

Whitner will be a solid/great Safety for years. I can't see Leinert in Buffalo. For one he doesn't have a strong arm. How would he play in the winter months? Secondly he is Mr. Hollywood. I can't see him being happy here.

I would of taken him in a minute, we needed hollywood in Buffalo.

[Philagape]

Good JP + good Whitner > anything Leinart does.

[HAMMER]

I was, and still am torn on this one. Leinart will be a terrific NFL QB and I don't think arm strength would have been any issue at all. But I still believe Losman can be a great QB once he is seasoned. If Whitner does for our defense what Mike Brown did for the Bears, then I say we made out well.

[X-Era]

We had the choice. Who so far looks to be worth the #8 pick?


P.S. Fox article on Leinart against the Bears:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5901566
So, once you have the data, your willing to come back here and say we were wrong? WOW, thats impressive.

Again, without Whitner and Bowen being hurt, whos our starter at SS? its one of the most important positions in the cover 2.

And then who do you start between Losman and Leinhart?

Great, an endless debate over which unproven QB we should start based on "feeling" and NO data.

Thanks, but I like our move better.

Now, that said, if Losman was gone BEFORE the draft by way of trade or cut, I would absolutely say yes we should have. But I dont see the point in having 2 1st round QB's with little to no experience between them.

[X-Era]

Brady Quinn = $30 million guaranteed money

:no:

Just to be cynnical for a minute, If JP stinks this year. Yes, I can see this move.

But, it is my belief that Tom Brady=Brady Quinn. Thats not necessarily a good thing. I honestly think BOTH are products of strong systems and fabulous coaches.

This isnt meant to diss Tom Brady, his numbers are what they are. Its only meant to question whether he would do the same on another team. Would Tom be as good if he played for the Cardinals? Is he the same as Kurt Warner in that hes great under the right system and the right coach (STL), and then very average under a crappy one (Cards)?

Point is, is Brady Quinn a stud because of HIM or because of the coahc and system? I can see the later.

[feelthepain]

Brady Quinn = $30 million guaranteed money

:no:


What do you care, the Bills are in great shape with their cap space??? Unleeesssss.......Ralph, is that you??? You do seem to know more about the Salary cap then a jewish accountant!!!! Hmmmmmmmm!

[TacklingDummy]

We had the choice. Who so far looks to be worth the #8 pick?


If Leinart and Cutler go on in the NFL and become stars and if JP losman doesn't become a star. Not drafting Leinart/Cutler will go down as one of the biggest blunders in Bills draft history. Even if Whitner becomes a All-Pro. QBs are more important then a Safety.

My mistake was buying into this board's opinion about how Leinart won't be a good NFL QB and had a weak arm. Watching the few clips they showed of him on ESPN last night he looked more poised in the pocket then JP has ever looked.

[TacklingDummy]

Point is, is Brady Quinn a stud because of HIM or because of the coahc and system? I can see the later.

There are other QBs out there that have more potential at becoming a Star then JP Losman. Cutler, Leinart, Manning, Quinn, Big Ben, just to name a few.

[X-Era]

There are other QBs out there that have more potential at becoming a Star then JP Losman. Cutler, Leinart, Manning, Quinn, Big Ben, just to name a few.

No problem, we should go and get one of those guys. Wait, how do we do that again?

And then I suppose you will start ANY of them for the whole season and not cry to put in KH when they inevitably have a bad game? Nice try.

You would go south on them like you did JP quicker than a duck in winter.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I will be happy if JP is just a solid Starter and a good leader. While it would be nice for him to be a star it isn't necessary IMO!

[PromoTheRobot]

why stop at 2? Let's tank the season...jerk around another young guy this year..and grab Brady Quinn next year :rolleyes:
Yeah, then we can jerk Brady Quinn around too!

People around here assume Leinert would have signed with the Bills. I think he would have skipped a season rather than play in Buffalo. Then we'd all be crying about how Marv Levy wasted a pick on Leinert. Also he NEVER had to play in bad weather. How would he handle a lake effect blizzard mid-game?

Besides, Leinert is 100% Hollywood. At least Arizona is close enough to L.A. for his entourage to follow him. I don't think Paris Hilton would come to Buffalo.

PTR

[THATHURMANATOR]

Yeah, then we can jerk Brady Quinn around too!

People around here assume Leinert would have signed with the Bills. I think he would have skipped a season rather than play in Buffalo. Then we'd all be crying about how Marv Levy wasted a pick on Leinert. Also he NEVER had to play in bad weather. How would he handle a lake effect blizzard mid-game?

Besides, Leinert is 100% Hollywood. At least Arizona is close enough to L.A. for his entourage to follow him. I don't think Paris Hilton would come to Buffalo.

PTR
If we offered him the money he was looking for and got in Arizona no way he would have sat out....

[TacklingDummy]

Also he NEVER had to play in bad weather. How would he handle a lake effect blizzard mid-game?


Im tired of the weather excuse. How many Blizzards did Jim Kelly play thru in his career? 2, 3? It doesn't always snow in Buffalo on gameday. And it blizzards even less.

[streetkings01]

Im tired of the weather excuse. How many Blizzards did Jim Kelly play thru in his career? 2, 3? It doesn't always snow in Buffalo on gameday. And it blizzards even less.Yeah but the crazy wind is around every year

[Mr. Cynical]

So, once you have the data, your willing to come back here and say we were wrong? WOW, thats impressive.

No, what's impressive is your complete laziness. Do your homework before posting or don't bother.

I have always supported giving JP the time to develop since the day he was drafted. Go look, that's a fact.

I have always stated my opinion that Whitner was a reach and that I don't think taking a S at #8 is a good decision. I didn't just come out and say it now because of Leinart's performance.

I did originally say I wanted an OL with the #8 (and still feel OL is our bigest weakness), but was torn on taking Leinart because of the uncertainty of JP. However, Leinart at 8 makes alot more sense than Whitner IMO.

[Mr. Cynical]

If Leinart and Cutler go on in the NFL and become stars and if JP losman doesn't become a star. Not drafting Leinart/Cutler will go down as one of the biggest blunders in Bills draft history. Even if Whitner becomes a All-Pro. QBs are more important then a Safety.

My mistake was buying into this board's opinion about how Leinart won't be a good NFL QB and had a weak arm. Watching the few clips they showed of him on ESPN last night he looked more poised in the pocket then JP has ever looked.

It's scary, but for once, we actually agree. :cheers:

[Mr. Cynical]

why stop at 2? Let's tank the season...jerk around another young guy this year..and grab Brady Quinn next year :rolleyes:

We won't have to "tank" the season as the team will do that on its own. So IMO, the decision next year on Quinn will likely be based on whether JP shows true progress this year, regardless of our record. If he doesn't, I will bet anything that Marv goes after him. He knows he needs a new "Jimbo"...

[justasportsfan]

If we drafted either Culter or Lienert, we're still behind on the D and will eventually have to build on it at sometime. The league has finally taken note of how important the safety is in this era of football.

IMO,Marv realizes that JP has raw misscoached talent. It's obvious he wanted to see what he can do if managed properly in the meant time , building on the D that teams like Miami were breaking records against.

Ben is nothing compared to Peyton and yet which qb won the sb? Not Ben himself but his D.


Even the Pats couldn't win the sb with Brady alone. His D was all banged up. It's nice to have a franchise qb, but how do we know if we don't have him already if you give up on him so easily. JP could be a Brett Farve in his early years. He may end up being a great qb for some other team if we didn't even bother taking alook at him under the right coaches.

[Ebenezer]

If we drafted either Culter or Lienert, we're still behind on the D and will eventually have to build on it at sometime. The league has finally taken note of how important the safety is in this era of football.

IMO,Marv realizes that JP has raw misscoached talent. It's obvious he wanted to see what he can do if managed properly in the meant time , building on the D that teams like Miami were breaking records against.

Ben is nothing compared to Peyton and yet which qb won the sb? Not Ben himself but his D.


Even the Pats couldn't win the sb with Brady alone. His D was all banged up. It's nice to have a franchise qb, but how do we know if we don't have him already if you give up on him so easily. JP could be a Brett Farve in his early years. He may end up being a great qb for some other team if we didn't even bother taking alook at him under the right coaches.
:bf1:

however, had JP been given a real chance or a 4 or 5 year vet I think they would have drafted Leinhart in a second.

[X-Era]

No, what's impressive is your complete laziness. Do your homework before posting or don't bother.

I have always supported giving JP the time to develop since the day he was drafted. Go look, that's a fact.

I have always stated my opinion that Whitner was a reach and that I don't think taking a S at #8 is a good decision. I didn't just come out and say it now because of Leinart's performance.

I did originally say I wanted an OL with the #8 (and still feel OL is our bigest weakness), but was torn on taking Leinart because of the uncertainty of JP. However, Leinart at 8 makes alot more sense than Whitner IMO.

Talk about laziness, how did you manage to not do your homework and read my whole damn post?

As I said, my only issue with taking Leinhart is that we have no real evaluation on JP yet. So the we have spent 2 1st rounders on QB's and still dont have one that has done anything yet. And also we would have spent our highest pick in years on a young prospect when we already had one at that position rather than looking at another need.

Was Whitner to high of a pick? maybe, lets find out.

If your post is just angry about our draft, OK, what now. I would get over it. If your post is anti-Losman because we had a shot at Leinhart, OK, lets see who proves out to be what, that CERTAINLY isnt now. If your post is simply love for Leinhart, OK, hes on the Cards. If you post is only meant to show that you were right someohow, good for you, but frankly I care about the Bills, not whether or not your right.

[Mr. Cynical]

Talk about laziness, how did you manage to not do your homework and read my whole damn post?

As I said, my only issue with taking Leinhart is that we have no real evaluation on JP yet. So the we have spent 2 1st rounders on QB's and still dont have one that has done anything yet. And also we would have spent our highest pick in years on a young prospect when we already had one at that position rather than looking at another need.

Was Whitner to high of a pick? maybe, lets find out.

If your post is just angry about our draft, OK, what now. I would get over it. If your post is anti-Losman because we had a shot at Leinhart, OK, lets see who proves out to be what, that CERTAINLY isnt now. If your post is simply love for Leinhart, OK, hes on the Cards. If you post is only meant to show that you were right someohow, good for you, but frankly I care about the Bills, not whether or not your right.

I don't know why you are missing my point again....

Again, I do and have always supported giving JP the chance. I have never been "anti losman".

This is all about taking Whitner at 8 when we had the shot at Leinart. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less.

[justasportsfan]

Don't forget the division we're in, the fins have Harrington as a back up. He may have sucked so far in his career, but he';s better than SAGE. Remember him? the back up that torched our secondary and gave Chambers his biggest a career day?
Let's not forget Daunte. If he even get's back to probowl form , the fins could dominate for years.

For years people have questioned Brady's arm. WHo had the most yards last year?

Neither Cultler nor Lienert isn't gonna stop those qb's from dominating us.

[Mr. Cynical]

Don't forget the division we're in, the fins have Harrington as a back up. He may have sucked so far in his career, but he';s better than SAGE. Remember him? the back up that torched our secondary and gave Chambers his biggest a career day?
Let's not forget Daunte. If he even get's back to probowl form , the fins could dominate for years.

For years people have questioned Brady's arm. WHo had the most yards last year?

Neither Cultler nor Lienert isn't gonna stop those qb's from dominating us.

Oh I agree - our D needed help. No question. (IMO people who have written off Daunte are nuts). I just think taking a safety at 8 was a mistake, i.e., it's like shooting a squirrel with a shotgun. Add the fact that Leinart was available and it does make for some discussion.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Leinart looked better against the Bears than Rivers did last week. And the Cardinals couldn't run the ball at all.

Grossman looked like JP. :ill:

[justasportsfan]

Grossman looked like JP. :ill:

He does move like JP. At least the way JP was last year. This is why I look for JP to be more compossed in the pocket which seems to be getting more evident as time goes by. Then again, it's just preseason.

[Typ0]

I've never hooted and hollered for one
For another, the coaches jerked around JP last year...how was he supposed to improve much like that?


how did JP get jerked around Phil? That is total media-fan fabricated jibberish. JP became stagnant. He wasn't improving week to week and leaving him in there to get killed would have destroyed him. The problem is with JP not the coaching staff. If he does the same thing this season the same thing will happen. Everyone knows he has skills to work on ... he's going to fumble and throw INT's. Those things will be lived with in his development but when he is doing absolutely nothing it's a waste of time to leave him in there.

PS: you do a lot of hooting and hollering.

[Typ0]

Watching the few clips they showed of him on ESPN last night he looked more poised in the pocket then JP has ever looked.

Let's not forget JP IS A ROOKIE THOUGH! He needs to have another full year and a full 16 games before he has a chance to do well.

[Mr. Cynical]

Let's not forget JP IS A ROOKIE THOUGH! He needs to have another full year and a full 16 games before he has a chance to do well.

Well, not really. While I certainly don't consider him a true 2 year vet due to his actual playing time, Leinart is a true rookie, not JP. But I agree that he needs a full season of playing to know what's what in *his* case. In others, like Ben or possibly Leinart, sometimes you don't.

[The_Philster]

how did JP get jerked around Phil? That is total media-fan fabricated jibberish. JP became stagnant. He wasn't improving week to week and leaving him in there to get killed would have destroyed him. The problem is with JP not the coaching staff. If he does the same thing this season the same thing will happen. Everyone knows he has skills to work on ... he's going to fumble and throw INT's. Those things will be lived with in his development but when he is doing absolutely nothing it's a waste of time to leave him in there.

PS: you do a lot of hooting and hollering.
Yeah..the media and the fans made it up that he got benched in the latter stages of the season when he was showing signs of improvement...and playing smarter than Holcomb :rolleyes:
I disagreed with him being benched the first time as well.....but it did at least make a small amount of sense. Benching him at the end of the season made zero sense.