Forked Thread: Will Dick be a good HC?

[Mr. Cynical]

Note: I forked this so we could start a clean thread on this specific topic.


The question posed is whether there is any reason to be optimistic about Jauron in the context of previous accomplishments and in comparison to coaches that were relatively unsuccessful in their first stints as NFL head coaches.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
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Your point is that Belichick and Levy have had some success prior to being head coaches.<o:p></o:p>
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Dick Jauron was a successful coach in the NFL for 10 years before he became a head coach, and he was hired as a coordinator again after his first head coaching stint. You don’t survive for that long in the NFL without doing something right. He may not have had the success of Belichick, but he did not have the all stars that Belichick had either, including arguably the greatest defensive player of all time. And he did not have the advantage of having Bill Parcells as his head coach either.<o:p></o:p>
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I feel that his 13-3 “coach of the year” season deserves consideration as well. Any coach can have losing seasons due to injury, poor talent, and a having GM that does not fully support the personnel needs expressed by the coach. Jauron experienced all of this during his tenure at <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City><st1:place>Chicago</st1:place></st1:City>. Pulling off a 13-3 season is special, and all the breaks did not go his way that season (they lost their #1 wide receiver in week 5). It gives some indication that future success can be attained, just as Belichick’s good seasons with the Browns gave that sign and Levy’s CFL seasons foretold.<o:p></o:p>
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As for Levy’s success as a CFL coach, it is interesting to note that he did not have conflicts with higher-ups over personnel decisions, since he was in charge of that duty as well. I believe that the GM and the head coach have to be on the same page in order for the coach to succeed. From all appearances, Jauron and Levy are in synch as far as the player acquisitions and general coaching philosophy is concerned.<o:p></o:p>
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Outside of that, I like the way that he has handled the job with the Bills so far and I like his selection of assistant coaches.

"Your point is that Belichick and Levy have had some success prior to being head coaches."<o:p></o:p>

That is pretty much my point save for two minor things....the debate was about second stints as head coaches (maybe that is what you meant) and I would take it one step further and say they had more than "some" success.

BB is/was regarded as a defensive genius. He destoyed us in SB 25 when no other team could stop us. Except for one year, his defenses at NYG were constantly in the top 5/10 (3,4,8,16,5,2). As HC of Cleveland the defenses improved every single year from 20th to reach 9th, until the final year when the team was in the throes of Modell's death grip and moved the team. As DC of the Jets, his defenses were in the top 10 for points allowed during his three years there. So it goes without saying that when he signed up with NE, there was a pretty good chance that he would do well. Granted not all coordinators make the transition successfully, but at least they knew he could create championship defenses.

Levy's case is a little less obvious given he was never a coordinator and his only non-HC experience in the NFL was as a special/kicking teams coach. But his great success as HC in the CFL (HC of the Montreal Alouettes for five seasons and took them to three CFL Grey Cup appearances and two championships) shows he had something under the hood to make him ultimately be a successful coach.

As for Dick's history....

As DC in Jax, the defenses ranked 19th, 15th, 24th and 25th.
As HC in Chicago they ranked 30th, 16th, 13th, 25th and 12th.
As DC In Detroit they ranked 20th.

Not once were his defenses in the top 10 and defense is supposedly his claim to fame. That's one of the primary misconceptions I think people need to realize IMO.

Second, in that special season (2001) the teams they kept to 12.7 (13) or below were (using points scored as the metric, which some would equate to offensive effectiveness):

Vikings: #24 in points scored, 5-11 record
Atlanta: #23 in points scored, 7-9 record
Cards: #20 in points scored, 7-9 record
Cincy: #31 in points scored, 6-10 record
Vikings: #24 in points scored, 5-11 record
Lions: #26 in points scored, 2-14 record
Bucs: #15 in points scored (although 25th overall off ranking), 9-7 record
Lions: #26 in points scored, 2-14 record
Jags: #22 in points scored, 6-10 record

So, that is 9 games against losing teams (except tampa) who had an average points scored ranking of #23.4. Not to mention the Browns scored 21 on them and they were #25 in points scored with an overall off ranking of 30.

So one season of shutting down poor offenses is not nearly enough to convince me of his defensive prowess. Not to mention 2001 was his "glory year" and after looking at who he beat, it loses alot of it's luster now IMO.

In any case, I'm not saying he *can't* be a good HC with 100% certainty. Nobody can. I also am not discounting your points why you have optimism. But from my perspective, there is very little reason at this point in time for me to feel good about him as HC. His actions to date have not impressed me - examples being the way the team has looked undisciplined this late in the season, and the way he took this long to name JP the starter. Of course those are subjective assessments, but in conjunction with the objective data I listed above, there is a much higher probability he will fail than succeed. Again, just my opinion.<!-- / message -->

[Ebenezer]

truthfully?? he has spent 22 years in the NFL doing yoman's work with poor teams. Being a position coach is a whole different animal than being a head coach. Even on piss-poor teams there can be good or even excellent ass't coaches. Being a HC in this day in age is a huge difference from the 70s. Today, a HC is a manager. He sets philosophy, coordinates the schedule and makes sure things get done. Yes, he has to have football knowledge because in crunch time he may have to make some pretty damn important decisions but for the most part a lot of what a head coach does could be handled by a very organized business manager. Since he has only had one stint as a HC and with a team that never game him much talent I would say that nobody has a clue how well he will do as a Head Coach. Another key to a good HC is bringing in good ass't coaches. GW and MM had a lot of problems doing this.

I think there is more pressure on Levy and Modrak to bring in good players and get the team going that way. IF they bring in junk then nobody would succeed as HC.

[Mr. Cynical]

I completely agree with alot of what you said about what makes a good HC. That being said, I still say that Dick hasn't shown anything in his past or to date with the Bills to show me that he has the capabilities you mentioned. Granted it's hard to know without the benefit of the regular season under way and seeing how he handles things and how the team is performing (not only W-L but attitudes, discipline, etc)

However, as I mentioned, IMO the current state of the team and the way he has handled a few issues already (JP), in conjunction with all the historical data listed above, tells me he is not a very good or strong leader. Time will tell....

[Dozerdog]

He's shown me he can produce a 13-3 season with a team that had no QB talent.


No reason why that can't happen again.

[ICE74129]

He's shown me he can produce a 13-3 season with a team that had no QB talent.


No reason why that can't happen again. That was the exception not the norm. Did you see that team? How many wins by pure luck on fluke turnovers etc?

I think the best thing he can do is let the coordinators run the show and he administrate them. I feel that is our best chance for success under Jauron.

[justasportsfan]

That was the exception not the norm. Did you see that team? How many wins by pure luck on fluke turnovers etc?

I think the best thing he can do is let the coordinators run the show and he administrate them. I feel that is our best chance for success under Jauron.
Ah, the "if you take away his longest run "argument.

[Mr. Cynical]

There's no reason it *can't* happen again, but IMO plenty of reasons it won't, as stated above.

[John Doe]

There's no reason it *can't* happen again, but IMO plenty of reasons it won't, as stated above.

Your arguments imply that it should not happen at all.

13-3 did happen.

[Historian]

He's going to do well here.

Really well.

[BidsJr]

A good executive is not a good executive because they execute the tasks of the people that they appoint below them. THey are good executives because of good judgement as too whom the people are that they appoint in those jobs. Most coaches and executives will make mistakes. That is why most fail. Intelligence and experiance are the things that help poeple grow and learn from mistakes. Dick has both.

Now whether that has equated in excellent hires below him remains to be seen. But that is going to be what determins his success as a head coach for the Bills, not what his defense was ranked for the Bears. That doesn't mean jack.

So far I am pleased with his decision to keep April.

Excited about the design of our offense, haven't seen this type of playbook since the K-Gun.

The D remains to be seen. But the Cover 2 seems to fit our players, and Fewell came from teh #1 ranked D last year. (or close to it)

IMHO I really like his demeanor on the field. Reminds me very much of Kirk Ferentz. Is calm, and that is exactly what JP needs.

[OpIv37]

He's shown me he can produce a 13-3 season with a team that had no QB talent.


No reason why that can't happen again.

he's also shown 4 losing seasons out of 5 tries.

No reason why that can't happen again.

The exception is not the rule.

[Dozerdog]

he's also shown 4 losing seasons out of 5 tries.

No reason why that can't happen again.

The exception is not the rule.And yet again... it all boils down to one's outlook.

Optomistic homers look on the bright side, negative nancys are always going to find gloom and doom.


Same old ****, different day

[OpIv37]

And yet again... it all boils down to one's outlook.

Optomistic homers look on the bright side, negative nancys are always going to find gloom and doom.


Same old ****, different day

tell me why one winning season carries more weight than 4 losing ones in your eyes. It has nothing to do with outlook- it's illogical.

[justasportsfan]

tell me why one winning season carries more weight than 4 losing ones in your eyes. It has nothing to do with outlook- it's illogical.one does not carry more wieght than the other. Both can happen. That's more logical.

[Mr. Cynical]

Your arguments imply that it should not happen at all.

13-3 did happen.

Correct. It could happen again, but my arguments imply it probably won't happen again. One season (with 8 of the 13 wins against losing teams, btw) is not a trend that supports a high probability for future success. As Op said, it was the lone exception to the rule, not the other way around.

[OpIv37]

one does not carry more wieght than the other. Both can happen. That's more logical.

what's logical is something that happened 80% of the time is 4 times more likely to occur than something that happened 20% of the time.

[Mr. Cynical]

Also, look at the numbers of my first post. At what point do you say he's just not that accomplished even after 22 years in the NFL? I think it is a perception based on his intelligence, much like the perception of Drew based on his arm. And we know how you can get burned when you don't bother to look behind the curtain.

[justasportsfan]

what's logical is something that happened 80% of the time is 4 times more likely to occur than something that happened 20% of the time.have you taken into consideration the injuries and conflict with the GM or do you just look at the stats and come up with a conclusion? Remember the preseason stat argument? besides, what does it matter to you? You already said you'd have your doubts even if we hired BB because it was a "Wilson hire". So there's nothing to argue with you about because you'd find something wrong with anyone Wilson hired.

[John Doe]

Correct. It could happen again, but my arguments imply it probably won't happen again. One season (with 8 of the 13 wins against losing teams, btw) is not a trend that supports a high probability for future success. As Op said, it was the lone exception to the rule, not the other way around.

13-3 is better single season record than Belichik did his first time around.

It is a trend that may indicate that Jauron will be more successful than him.

[OpIv37]

have you taken into consideration the injuries and conflict with the GM or do you just look at the stats and come up with a conclusion? Remember the preseason stat argument?

there certainly are mitigating factors.

Injuries are a fact of life in the NFL. You're fond of using the Patriots as examples- they won in spite of injuries.

If he was able to overcome the GM problem for one season, why couldn't he do it for the other seasons?

Again, no personal accountability- poor performance is always the result of something else with you- it's never the responsibility of the individual.

[Dozerdog]

tell me why one winning season carries more weight than 4 losing ones in your eyes. It has nothing to do with outlook- it's illogical.

The question was asked if DJ could be successful here.

I gave my 2 cents.....you may resume to commence whining

[OpIv37]

The question was asked if DJ could be successful here.

I gave my 2 cents.....you may resume to commence whining

your 2 cents said he could win again because he one once- it completely neglected to account for the 4 times he lost.

It's easy to draw the conclusions that you want by simply ignoring the evidence to the contrary.

[justasportsfan]

Again, no personal accountability- poor performance is always the result of something else with you- it's never the responsibility of the individual.after all this time you still can't comprehend . There is accountability when I don't pick the team to make playoffs. That means I'm not impressed.

Unlike you I just don't go around telling everyone, "the bills blow"

You on the other hand will say I have no accountability just because I don't share your way of thinking that "EVERYONE BLOWS until proven otherwise".

You're already backtracking about our run D blows. It won't be long that you will be wrong about Peerless too.

[Mr. Cynical]

13-3 is better single season record than Belichik did his first time around.

It is a trend that may indicate that Jauron will be more successful than him.

A trend is a set of data points and a single season is only one data point. So it is not a trend.

[OpIv37]

after all this time you still can't comprehend . There is accountability when I don't pick the team to make playoffs. That means I'm not impressed.

Unlike you I just don't go around telling everyone, "the bills blow"

You on the other hand will say I have no accountability just because I don't share your way of thinking that "EVERYONE BLOWS until proven otherwise".

You're already backtracking about our run D blows. It won't be long that you will be wrong about Peerless too.

backtracking how?

They looked better than I thought in the first game and terrible in the last game. Where's the backtracking in observations?

Jauron has a losing record as a head coach- what reason do you have to think any different until he proves otherwise?

[justasportsfan]

backtracking how?

They looked better than I thought in the first game and terrible in the last game. Where's the backtracking in observations? YOu stated that our run D was not gonna be any better than last year. I called you on a bet that you backed out of. That's backtracking.



Jauron has a losing record as a head coach- what reason do you have to think any different until he proves otherwise again it's "THE BENEFIT OF A DOUBT" . After all even though he's failed, he's had some success. Other coaches have done it too. He could either fail or he could succeed.
Jauron was not my pick. Neither was Sherman.

But I'm not gonna go around telling people every WILSON hire blows.


Your problem is, there is no in between with you. It's either we're like skooby or we're negative nancies like you. I'm a wait and see and you can't handle that.

[OpIv37]

YOu stated that our run D was not gonna be any better than last year. I called you on a bet that you backed out of. That's backtracking.


again it's "THE BENEFIT OF A DOUBT" . After all even though he's failed, he's had some success. Other coaches have done it too. He could either fail or he could succeed.
Jauron was not my pick. Neither was Sherman.

But I'm not gonna go around telling people every WILSON hire blows.


Your problem is, there is no in between with you. It's either we're like skooby or we're negative nancies like you. I'm a wait and see and you can't handle that.


that's not backtracking- the only reason I didn't accept that bet is because it was RIGGED- the run D could be WORSE than last year and I could potentially still LOSE. You want a bet, you make a fair one.

I don't see why it's considered negative to have doubts about a coach with a losing record. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

I don't see why it's unreasonable to think that all of Wilson's hires blow- the last few certainly have. What gives you the confidence to think he can get it right?

[John Doe]

A trend is a set of data points and a single season is only one data point. So it is not a trend.

Call it an "indicator" then.

[justasportsfan]

that's not backtracking- the only reason I didn't accept that bet is because it was RIGGED- the run D could be WORSE than last year and I could potentially still LOSE. You want a bet, you make a fair one. ? there are 32 teams. You can only be ranked anywhere from 1 -32 . How hard is that? Rigged? You're the one making stupid predictions that tour run D won't be any bette than 31st. So tell me , how do you want to set up this bet. Total rushing yards against our D compared to last year? I'll take it. $100 CASH.


I don't see why it's considered negative to have doubts about a coach with a losing record. Seems pretty reasonable to me. Nothing wrong with that. The problem is is when YOU are only willing to harp on the negatives ONLY.


I don't see why it's unreasonable to think that all of Wilson's hires blow- the last few certainly have. What gives you the confidence to think he can get it right If any of our FA's or rookies turn out doing well, they are a product of Wilson hiring. You better not backtrack. Robert Royals, Reyes Fowler etc.

Any player we retained too is a result of Wilsons hire.


If this team improves this year and the next as compared to next year, that would be a result of Wilsons hire. You better not be a bandwagon jumper.

[OpIv37]

there are 32 teams. You can only be ranked anywhere from 1 -32 . How hard is that? Rigged? You're the one making stupid predictions that tour run D won't be any bette than 31st. So tell me , how do you want to set up this bet. Total rushing yards against our D compared to last year? I'll take it. $100 CASH.


It's rigged because our D could give up more YARDS that last year's D, but if 5 teams suck even worse than we do, we'll be ranked higher and I lose. Also, I don't have any extra cash to be messing around with bets (translation: my Puerto Rican wife will cut my nutsack off if I lose $100 in a dick measuring contest on a message board).

Make it ACTUAL yards instead of rank and make it a ZB/signature bet or something like that, and you're on.



Nothing wrong with that. The problem is is when YOU are only willing to harp on the negatives ONLY.

If any of our FA's or rookies turn out doing well, they are a product of Wilson hiring. You better not backtrack. Robert Royals, Reyes Fowler etc.

Any player we retained too is a result of Wilsons hire.


If this team improves this year and the next as compared to next year, that would be a result of Wilsons hire. You better not be a bandwagon jumper.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by bandwagon jumper on this one. If Levy and Jauron turn out to be good, then I was wrong about Wilson and I'll be man enough to admit that. I'm going to support anyone who's good for this team, even if I wasn't a strong supporter of the hiring in the first place.

[justasportsfan]

It's rigged because our D could give up more YARDS that last year's D, but if 5 teams suck even worse than we do, we'll be ranked higher and I lose. Also, I don't have any extra cash to be messing around with bets (translation: my Puerto Rican wife will cut my nutsack off if I lose $100 in a dick measuring contest on a message board).

Make it ACTUAL yards instead of rank and make it a ZB/signature bet or something like that, and you're on. .that's what I just said, if it's total yards against our D, I'm willing to bet that at the end of the year, teams won't rack up as much rush yards as they did against us last year. If you're so sure of yourself then losing $100 won't cross your mind and you won't have to worry about your wife.





I'm not exactly sure what you mean by bandwagon jumper on this one. If Levy and Jauron turn out to be good, then I was wrong about Wilson and I'll be man enough to admit that. I'm going to support anyone who's good for this team, even if I wasn't a strong supporter of the hiring in the first place.

Hah! In the meantime they all blow but if they turn our great, then you'll jump on the wagon. Yeah you're a bandwagon jumper. You'll blast anything until it turns out well.

That's your problem, you can't give anyone the benefit of a doubt.

[OpIv37]

that's what I just said, if it's total yards against our D, I'm willing to bet that at the end of the year, teams won't rack up as much rush yards as they did against us last year. If you're so sure of yourself then losing $100 won't cross your mind and you won't have to worry about your wife.





Hah! In the meantime they all blow but if they turn our great, then you'll jump on the wagon. Yeah you're a bandwagon jumper. You'll blast anything until it turns out well.

That's your problem, you can't give anyone the benefit of a doubt.

So, if the Bills go 5-11 this year and 2-14 in 2007, are you going to continue to support Jauron or will you be calling for his head? Because if you want the Bills to fire him, then you're a bandwagon jumper.

I want this team to WIN. If I see a move made that doesn't look like this team will win, I'm going to criticize it (like hiring a coach with a losing record). If my criticism is wrong, then the team is winning- it's only bandwagon jumping if I don't admit my mistakes and pretend that I supported them all along.

I can't do cash right now- make it anything but and you're on.

[justasportsfan]

So, if the Bills go 5-11 this year and 2-14 in 2007, are you going to continue to support Jauron or will you be calling for his head? Because if you want the Bills to fire him, then you're a bandwagon jumper.

I want this team to WIN. If I see a move made that doesn't look like this team will win, I'm going to criticize it (like hiring a coach with a losing record). If my criticism is wrong, then the team is winning- it's only bandwagon jumping if I don't admit my mistakes and pretend that I supported them all along.

I can't do cash right now- make it anything but and you're on.

na, I want cash or nothing. I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. You're obviously not sure of yourself.

[OpIv37]

na, I want cash or nothing.

no deal.

[justasportsfan]

So, if the Bills go 5-11 this year and 2-14 in 2007, are you going to continue to support Jauron or will you be calling for his head? .Because if you want the Bills to fire him, then you're a bandwagon jumper.that's stupid. Of course I support him now because he's the coach of my team. Doesn't mean I think he's the next BB.

I don't know why you have a hard time grasping the words, "benefit of a doubt" that means he's neither good nor bad but I am willing to "wait and see". You on the other hand treat Jauron like he's Wanndstedt.

[justasportsfan]

no deal.thought so.

[OpIv37]

that's stupid. Of course I support him now because he's the coach of my team. Doesn't mean I think he's the next BB.

I don't know why you have a hard time grasping the words, "benefit of a doubt" that means he's neither good nor bad but I am willing to "wait and see". You on the other hand treat Jauron like he's Wanndstedt.

but if we hired Wanndstedt, you'd still want to "wait and see". After all, he did make the playoffs once.

[justasportsfan]

but if we hired Wanndstedt, you'd still want to "wait and see". After all, he did make the playoffs once.
WRONG!! Wanny ran 2 teams to the ground and I know he'll neve coach the bills.

[Tatonka]

He's going to do well here.

Really well.

i agree.. i like him a lot already just in the way he has handled everything up to this point and the players we drafted and signed.

i have zero complaints. i like his assistant coaches he picked and i like his demeanor.

he is going to do well for us.

:bandwagon

[Mr. Cynical]

i agree.. i like him a lot already just in the way he has handled everything up to this point and the players we drafted and signed.

i have zero complaints. i like his assistant coaches he picked and i like his demeanor.

he is going to do well for us.

:bandwagon

Gonna bookmark this one for the end of the season. :snicker:


:jk:

[Mr. Cynical]

Do the Dick supporters in this thread still support him?

[Nighthawk]

It's very obvious that this guy just doesn't have it as a HC. A cheap hire with cheap results. Great hire Ralph and Marv...by the way Marv, you shouldn't have been hired either.

[Novacane]

Dick sucks

[Nighthawk]

Dick sucks

:roflmao:

[Mr. Cynical]

:up:

[Philagape]

Uninspired.

Unprepared.

Undisciplined.

That's what the team was today and has been for three weeks.

I started the season with a blank slate on judging him, but as far as I'm concerned, Dick is way in the hole. :couch:

[YardRat]

I still have a much bigger problem with the execution of the players on the field than I do the front office or the coaching staff.

I'm willing to give Marv and Dick the rest of this year and 2007 to see how/if the team progresses.

[Mr. Cynical]

I still have a much bigger problem with the execution of the players on the field than I do the front office or the coaching staff.

I'm willing to give Marv and Dick the rest of this year and 2007 to see how/if the team progresses.

But the execution is a direct result of preparation, discipline and motivation. All of those things fall on the coaches' shoulders.

[Mr. Cynical]

Uninspired.

Unprepared.

Undisciplined.

That's what the team was today and has been for three weeks.

I started the season with a blank slate on judging him, but as far as I'm concerned, Dick is way in the hole. :couch:

Yup.

[Mr. Cynical]

bump

[alohabillsfan]

Belichek was 5-11 his first year and then went 11-4 with T. Brady starting game 3 on!

You give D. Jauron T. Brady and we are 6-1 and he is a genius, QB is that important!

[BidsJr]

But the execution is a direct result of preparation, discipline and motivation. All of those things fall on the coaches' shoulders.

It appears that you left off talent and maturity.

Some people are just not talented or mature enough to be diciplined executers.

This team lacks talent. Hopefully Marv will fix that. Hopefully Dick won't screw it up when he does.


FWIW our team has played stupidly for the 6-10 years. It has never gotten better.

Sometimes I just think we have stupid, immature players.

[Mr. Cynical]

It appears that you left off talent and maturity.

Some people are just not talented or mature enough to be diciplined executers.

This team lacks talent. Hopefully Marv will fix that. Hopefully Dick won't screw it up when he does.


FWIW our team has played stupidly for the 6-10 years. It has never gotten better.

Sometimes I just think we have stupid, immature players.

Even the less talented players in the NFL are able to play with discipline and motivation. In fact, I would argue that they have to be or they wouldn't be able to compete with the more talented players.

I agree somewhat on the maturity angle but it still comes down to how the HC runs the team. If the HC is not able to "handle the kids", he shouldn't be an HC.

Yep, we have been playing "stupidly" for a long time, but the primary reason is the front office. We've had bottom of the barrel HCs for all that time...Man Boobs, Moo-Moo and now Dick. It's not surprising the Bills have been so crappy for so long.

[patmoran2006]

I stayed off this topic when originally posted.

STill not sold one way or the other on Jauron as of now.. but when a team plays STUPID I will always blame it on the head coach.

[PECKERWOOD]

Mr. Cynical, you outta stop rubbing dick the wrong way, he may blow up in your face.

[Mr. Cynical]

...and the band keeps on marching...

[YardRat]

I still have a much bigger problem with the execution of the players on the field than I do the front office or the coaching staff.

I'm willing to give Marv and Dick the rest of this year and 2007 to see how/if the team progresses.

I still stand by this comment.

[Mr. Cynical]

I still stand by this comment.

2006: 7-9
2007: 0-2

You can keep standing but the ground is getting a bit shaky around your feet. :;

But seriously - you have to admit that if we go sub-.500 again this year that Dick is on extremely thin ice no matter how you look at it. He'll have a 47-67 (or so) career record and one winning season out of 7. That's a bit too much evidence to look past.

[YardRat]

There's still 14 weeks to go :D

[Mr. Cynical]

There's still 14 weeks to go :D

Well that's true. Just make sure to tie a rope around your waist and tie it to a tree cause when we hit week 8 and we still haven't won a game, the quicksand is gonna get pretty nasty. :snicker:

[Mr. Cynical]

Do the Dick supporters in this thread still support him?

:scratch:

[Ebenezer]

:scratch:
well, here is what I posted....


truthfully?? he has spent 22 years in the NFL doing yoman's work with poor teams. Being a position coach is a whole different animal than being a head coach. Even on piss-poor teams there can be good or even excellent ass't coaches. Being a HC in this day in age is a huge difference from the 70s. Today, a HC is a manager. He sets philosophy, coordinates the schedule and makes sure things get done. Yes, he has to have football knowledge because in crunch time he may have to make some pretty damn important decisions but for the most part a lot of what a head coach does could be handled by a very organized business manager. Since he has only had one stint as a HC and with a team that never game him much talent I would say that nobody has a clue how well he will do as a Head Coach. Another key to a good HC is bringing in good ass't coaches. GW and MM had a lot of problems doing this.

I think there is more pressure on Levy and Modrak to bring in good players and get the team going that way. IF they bring in junk then nobody would succeed as HC.

I still stand by what I said...I guess I should have added John Guy to that list with Levy and Modrak...I still don't think they have brought in enough quality players on defense while losing a significant chunk of talent to free agency, cuts and injuries...I'm not giving him a pass by any means but the jury is still out. I think they are letting JP play himself out of a contract extension and are building the defense through the draft (which will take a couple of years). They knew there would be lumps and are willing to go through it. I will judge DJ midway through next year.

[Mr. Cynical]

Just taking the temperature again....

[Illmatic15]

Dick sucks

[Mr. Cynical]

As for Dick's history....

As DC in Jax, the defenses ranked 19th, 15th, 24th and 25th.
As HC in Chicago they ranked 30th, 16th, 13th, 25th and 12th.
As DC In Detroit they ranked 20th.

Not once were his defenses in the top 10 and defense is supposedly his claim to fame. That's one of the primary misconceptions I think people need to realize IMO.

Second, in that special season (2001) the teams they kept to 12.7 (13) or below were (using points scored as the metric, which some would equate to offensive effectiveness):

Vikings: #24 in points scored, 5-11 record
Atlanta: #23 in points scored, 7-9 record
Cards: #20 in points scored, 7-9 record
Cincy: #31 in points scored, 6-10 record
Vikings: #24 in points scored, 5-11 record
Lions: #26 in points scored, 2-14 record
Bucs: #15 in points scored (although 25th overall off ranking), 9-7 record
Lions: #26 in points scored, 2-14 record
Jags: #22 in points scored, 6-10 record

So, that is 9 games against losing teams (except tampa) who had an average points scored ranking of #23.4. Not to mention the Browns scored 21 on them and they were #25 in points scored with an overall off ranking of 30.

So one season of shutting down poor offenses is not nearly enough to convince me of his defensive prowess. Not to mention 2001 was his "glory year" and after looking at who he beat, it loses alot of it's luster now IMO.

In any case, I'm not saying he *can't* be a good HC with 100% certainty. Nobody can. I also am not discounting your points why you have optimism. But from my perspective, there is very little reason at this point in time for me to feel good about him as HC. His actions to date have not impressed me - examples being the way the team has looked undisciplined this late in the season, and the way he took this long to name JP the starter. Of course those are subjective assessments, but in conjunction with the objective data I listed above, there is a much higher probability he will fail than succeed. Again, just my opinion.<!-- / message -->

Since this post Dick is 7-12.

Yes, Dick sucks.

[PECKERWOOD]

Who cares? Do you think anybody really cares if you're right or not?

[PECKERWOOD]

Hey Cynical... You were right though! This thread proves that you really know dick! Dick Jauron that is!! :snicker:

Ahhhh, Dick jokes will never get old!

[Mr. Cynical]

Ahhhh, Dick jokes will never get old!

I can't wait until he's circumsized, er...cut from the team. :;

[PECKERWOOD]

I can't wait until he's circumsized, er...cut from the team. :;

:rofl:

Now, now! I'm sure Dick has feelings too! Everybody should be sensitive when it comes to discussing, Dick!

[BillsFever21]

I love reading these old posts. I even love reading what people say a year or two ago and when they finally realize a certain player/coach sucks they act like they knew it all along.

[Mr. Cynical]

He's going to do well here.

Really well.

Doh. :doh2:

[LtFinFan66]

Why drag all these old threads back out:idunno: