Holcomb

[RedEyE]

Pat Kirwan brought up an interesting point in one of his blurbs this week. He noted that Holcomb has only had 9 throws all summer during preseason. I was thinking about it, and the turn of events that have transpired this off season from last are quite interesting and ironic (in a sense).

I'm not dismissing Losman's efforts. I really think the kid has come a long way from a year ago. However, the conspiracy theorist in me has me wondering how much all of this wasn't planned from the get go. Seriously. Let's look back at camp a few weeks before the first preseason game. The QB race was a dead heat. Well, at least between Holcomb and Losman, although Nall was coming into his own before the injury anyway.

Holcomb gets the start and gets pulled after just one quarter of football. Granted he played terribly flat and couldn't get the ball moving to save his life, but it seems to me that in a true sense of a QB competition you would have let him at least attempt to struggle through most of the second to regain some lost effort.

Now, I know they also wanted to see Losman with the first team, so giving him the second QRTR makes sense, but letting him ride through with the second and third team to the middle of the fourth QRTR leaves me scratching my head.

I can except the fact that they wanted Losman to attempt to gain momentum againt Carolina. An attmept to build his confidence.. but the fact that they didn't extend Holcomb the same opportunity the following week has me wondering if the coaching staff hadn't set JP up to easily succeed.

Much like Losman a year ago, doesn't the decision of the coaching staff, of having pulled Holcomb without any reservation, help destory a little of his confidence ever so slightly? I think the reports of his performance in practice the week before the Bengals game certainly provides evidence in the case.

In preseason week 2 Nall is back and they want to give him full on opportunity to prove himself. JP starts, has a very flat first qrtr, yet is allowed to to stay in through the 2nd qrtr to redeem his abilities. Its seemingly hypocritical that Holcomb was not offered the same opportunity the week prior. Almost immediatly Losman nails a strike to Evans downfield and his confidence excells, his momentum continues and his landing the starting job is now even more secured.

Holcomb is given just the 3rd QRTR to out play his young competitor. 3 short drives and he's out. Nall comes in and has some success moving the ball. Holcomb again slides in confidence as well in his own ability. Once again his performance at practice proves this theory.

If all of that wasn't interesting enough, in game three, Holcomb isn't even given the chance to play. Losman comes into the game not having to look over his shoulder as much as weeks past as he knows that Kelly will be riding pine and Nall still has much to prove. JP puts up his best game yet and is announced Week 1 regular season starter days after.

Now, it's possible that I could be reading too much into this, but it seems to me as if Holcomb was phased out. Rather than losing the position he was set up in a lose-lose scenerio.

With all that being said, I've always been a Losman supporter, but I just can't help but notice the events that have occured through the course of this so called "QB Competition".

Any thoughts?

[L.A. Playa]

you think too much

[RedEyE]

you think too much

Now there's something that I've never been accused of before.

[BidsJr]

Thoughts?

Yup, if Holcomb was lights out in the camp he would have had a fair shot. In fact that was his fair shot.

When the coaching staff saw that a Young, and Green JP was ahead of him from teh get go the decision became pretty easy. It all fell into place when Holcomb looked totally unprepared in the first game, and they had to get him off the field to save embarrasment.

[Kenny]

The QB race was a dead heat. Well, at least between Holcomb and Losman, although Nall was coming into his own before the injury anyway.

Are you kidding me? Holcomb was terrible in camp. All he did was throw little 5-6yard passes.
Losman was clearly the better QB in camp.

[alohabillsfan]

THE BOTTOM LINE IS THIS! YES, the coaching staff wants JP to suceed, so yes they planned this all along, if you have a young QB with shaken confidence from the last yo-yo staff, do you start him pre-season game 1 on the road against a great Carolina D no, you start him game 2 at home this only makes sense. They are brining him along slowly and developing a NFL QB what a concept. I like the direction we are going and will in the next year or 2 return to the top!

P.S. Marv trade Nate for a draft pick now!

[RedEyE]

Are you kidding me? Holcomb was terrible in camp. All he did was throw little 5-6yard passes.
Losman was clearly the better QB in camp.

That's just not a true statement. Both Holcomb and Losman were neck in neck before preseason started. Otherwise explain to me how Holcomb got the start over JP in game 1.

[RedEyE]

Thoughts?

Yup, if Holcomb was lights out in the camp he would have had a fair shot. In fact that was his fair shot.

When the coaching staff saw that a Young, and Green JP was ahead of him from teh get go the decision became pretty easy. It all fell into place when Holcomb looked totally unprepared in the first game, and they had to get him off the field to save embarrasment.

Isn't it more emabarrasing to be pulled without a full opportunity or shot to prove yourself?

[Night Train]

Of course ! It was all orchestrated to sell Losman to the locker room.

TD blew his stack after the Pittsburgh game in 2004, when Bledsoe completed 12-15 passes to the turf. He cut Bledsoe and force fed an obviously " Not ready for prime time " Losman to the roster. Horrible move.

This off-season, Jauron could see Losman had the most talent but Marv aquired Nall, just in case Losman did fall on his face. Holcomb could never be considered a serious candidate, especially after that Jets game to finish the season. He looked completely done as an NFL QB that day. This summer, he looked even worse !

The Bills wanted Losman to step forward and show something and he did. He's far from a polished product but experience without the weekly threat of being yanked will only make him better. Nall is not a bad backup QB at all and will be able to run the Fairchild Offense, if Losman gets hurt.

Qb isn't a worry for me and the Brady Quinn talk is just plain silly. ( Oh look, something shiny ! I want it ! ).

This team needs to draft 2-3 OL and a pass rushing DE next year. You win in the trenches and that's why we'll lose some games this year. Meanwhile, the mobility of JP will keep us in many games.

Go JP !

[Iehoshua]

Qb isn't a worry for me and the Brady Quinn talk is just plain silly. ( Oh look, something shiny ! I want it ! ).
:rofl:

Exactly the same thing that happens after (Insert any name here) is cut/released/on the trade block. 20 threads are created "Let's Sign Him!"

[Meathead]

i just think they played it smart

they know what they have in holcomb - a steady but unspectacular veteran who completes a high percentage of short throws but struggles with the long ball. not bad but not great

and of course they wanted losman to succeed, its the best thing for the franchise. still i think holcomb got a fair shot up until the first preseason game to show he deserved to remain the starter and he didnt do that. after that they wanted to a) get losman as many reps as possible and b) to see if nall should be elevated to number two

sure it probably doesnt help holcombs confidence but hes been around, he should be able to take it. hes got to know what he id - a borderline nfl starter more suiteed to being an insurance policy than a front line player. he will still have a home here and if not certainly someplace else in the nfl

[justasportsfan]

Both Holcomb and Losman were neck in neck before preseason started. Otherwise explain to me how Holcomb got the start over JP in game 1.Nope, JP was ahead. Who started in 1st preseason didn't matter. It was still a competition until then.

[RedEyE]

Nope, JP was ahead. Who started in 1st preseason didn't matter. It was still a competition until then.

How did you determine that? Woman's intuition?

Seriously, I can see towards the first game Losman was picking things up a bit, but it was still up in the air as to who would be starter. There isn't one person on this board that could have known that until it was put into a game scenerio.

[madness]

Pat Kirwan brought up an interesting point in one of his blurbs this week. He noted that Holcomb has only had 9 throws all summer during preseason.

:wtf: What camp was he watching?

[ICE74129]

THE BOTTOM LINE IS THIS! YES, the coaching staff wants JP to suceed, so yes they planned this all along, if you have a young QB with shaken confidence from the last yo-yo staff, do you start him pre-season game 1 on the road against a great Carolina D no, you start him game 2 at home this only makes sense. They are brining him along slowly and developing a NFL QB what a concept. I like the direction we are going and will in the next year or 2 return to the top!

P.S. Marv trade Nate for a draft pick now!

I agree with your last comment, trade Nate.

[RedEyE]

:wtf: What camp was he watching?

I never actually checked his accuracy, but he was refering to the games.

[justasportsfan]

How did you determine that? Woman's intuition?

Seriously, I can see towards the first game Losman was picking things up a bit, but it was still up in the air as to who would be starter. There isn't one person on this board that could have known that until it was put into a game scenerio.
anyone who's been to camp on a regular basis can see it as clear as daylight. They were neck and neck on dink and dunks but JP ws definitely pulling away in long throws. Even wys who dislikes JP even said so.

Yep, game yime scenario was where DJ was gonna make his decision, and JP again proved he could stretch the field.

[raphael120]

holcomb started the first preseason game based on seniority. this was during the whole thing about them sharing reps. he stunk it up, and i think the whole competition was supposed to find out if nall was better and that is all. dj isnt THAT stupid that he would think holcomb would actually be a good QB for a starting job after being a backup his whole career. a guy doesnt hit 34 yrs old and suddenly be good enough to be a starter

[Michael82]

That's just not a true statement. Both Holcomb and Losman were neck in neck before preseason started. Otherwise explain to me how Holcomb got the start over JP in game 1.
I'm sorry, but as a guy who went to camp almost every day, I have to disagree. JP Losman clearly was the best QB in camp. Kelly Holcomb may have started out good for the first day or so, but Losman did better in the times he got to work with the starters.

[madness]

I'm sorry, but as a guy who went to camp almost every day, I have to disagree. JP Losman clearly was the best QB in camp. Kelly Holcomb may have started out good for the first day or so, but Losman did better in the times he got to work with the starters.

..and Jauron even said they picked the QB for the first preseason game based on seniority.

[RedEyE]

Well, regardless of what you guys thought or believed you saw, DJ hasn't mentioned a starter until this week. So, that only further backs my theory. The entire affair was orchestrated whether from the get-go or during Holcomb's so-called collapse.

[shelby]

Conspiracy theorist.
:D

[Jan Reimers]

Of course ! It was all orchestrated to sell Losman to the locker room.

TD blew his stack after the Pittsburgh game in 2004, when Bledsoe completed 12-15 passes to the turf. He cut Bledsoe and force fed an obviously " Not ready for prime time " Losman to the roster. Horrible move.

This off-season, Jauron could see Losman had the most talent but Marv aquired Nall, just in case Losman did fall on his face. Holcomb could never be considered a serious candidate, especially after that Jets game to finish the season. He looked completely done as an NFL QB that day. This summer, he looked even worse !

The Bills wanted Losman to step forward and show something and he did. He's far from a polished product but experience without the weekly threat of being yanked will only make him better. Nall is not a bad backup QB at all and will be able to run the Fairchild Offense, if Losman gets hurt.
I think you are exactly right, NT. The only thing that could have gone wrong would have been for JP to completely stink up the joint, which was highly unlikely. I felt all along that this "competition" was a clever charade to build JP's confidence in himself (after the Mularkey massacre) and his teammates' confidence in him.

[Michael82]

Well, regardless of what you guys thought or believed you saw, DJ hasn't mentioned a starter until this week. So, that only further backs my theory. The entire affair was orchestrated whether from the get-go or during Holcomb's so-called collapse.
I believe that the job started out Kelly Holcomb's to lose, but he struggled soo much in camp with the long ball and wasn't made for this offense. Plus he bit the big one in the first preseason game, so then it became JP Losman's to lose.

[Michael82]

Oh yeah, Dick Jauron did give Kelly Holcomb another chance after the interception in the first game, but he went 3 and out. So he failed.

[Jan Reimers]

I believe that the job started out Kelly Holcomb's to lose, but he struggled soo much in camp with the long ball and wasn't made for this offense. Plus he bit the big one in the first preseason game, so then it became JP Losman's to lose.
I very seldom disagree with you, Mikey, but I really think the new regime felt that JP was a much better talent than KH, and realized that for both his and the teams' sake, JP would have to "win" the job on his own this year.

I actually think JP would have won the job fair and square last year, if given the chance, but Moron Mularkey was too dense to have held his own "competition."

[HHURRICANE]

In mini-camp, when they were doing long ball drills, Nall and JP were throwing 60 yards and Holcomb was throwing it 35 yards. He sealed his fate there and never was going to recover unless Losman was missing the side of a barn. Why, as a coach, would I waste valuable training camp time on a guy that wasn't going to fit the offense.

Fair only counts when both people have the same ability to earn the job. This isn't special olympics where everyone is a winner.

[madness]

Seriously, I'm sick of this conspiracy crap. Dick and Marv have been known their whole career as stand up guys that shoot straight from the hip and now suddenly they're plotting the next Presidential election. (Marv for President!)

It was a wide open competition and the best man won. It's over, now let it go and accept it.

Disclaimer: This message is addressed to everyone who can't accept it, not just RedEyE. :moon:

[TedMock]

I originally thought this competition was put in place to favor Holcomb, but as it went on, I honestly believe I was dead wrong. It was a real competition, but it was intended to make JP better. I don't know if Jauron will succeed, nor do I know if JP will succeed, but I do believe that Jauron & Co. have handled this brilliantly. They forced the kid to work hard, and held his hand at the same time. They obviously know that Holcomb is a journeyman backup, but they needed Losman to show character, which he has so far. This can be seen not only by how he's responded to Holcomb getting the early nod, but how he's responded after bad throws/decisions in the pre-season games. I'm happy with how it's shaking out so far.

[Jan Reimers]

Seriously, I'm sick of this conspiracy crap. Dick and Marv have been known their whole career as stand up guys that shoot straight from the hip and now suddenly they're plotting the next Presidential election. (Marv for President!)

It was a wide open competition and the best man won. It's over, now let it go and accept it.

Disclaimer: This message is addressed to everyone who can't accept it, not just RedEyE. :moon:
I agree, from the standpoint that if JP had really stunk, Holcomb or Nall would have been our QB now. But I think the brain trust had seen enough of each guy to know that JP would be the winner in a big play offense, and simply afforded him the opportunity to recover his and his teammates' confidence.

[HHURRICANE]

Holcomb was the favorite until Jauron got to see him and not read about him through the media. Holcomb sucked and Losman's better. He won it fair and square. I also think that Marv thought Nall was better based on him watching some Green Bay games while out in Chicago. Nall's a backup.

[justasportsfan]

I originally thought this competition was put in place to favor Holcomb, but as it went on, I honestly believe I was dead wrong. It was a real competition, but it was intended to make JP better. I don't know if Jauron will succeed, nor do I know if JP will succeed, but I do believe that Jauron & Co. have handled this brilliantly. They forced the kid to work hard, and held his hand at the same time. They obviously know that Holcomb is a journeyman backup, but they needed Losman to show character, which he has so far. This can be seen not only by how he's responded to Holcomb getting the early nod, but how he's responded after bad throws/decisions in the pre-season games. I'm happy with how it's shaking out so far.
:up:

[Meathead]

it appears obvious to me they are going with a carolina type offense - get 5-8 yards on the first two downs mostly by running and be patient to take your shots down the field to some very speedy wrs

i can see why holcomb would struggle in that offense. its like the anti-west coast offense which holcomb seems better suited for

i still doubt they are just going to let him walk though. not much reason to not carry him at 2 or 3. so as i said when they signed nall i bet they keep all three. then if somebody comes calling maybe later when they have qb trouble one of the two would fetch a draft pick

[billfirn06]

This can be "what if'd" for ever. What if KH got another series, what if Nall didnt pull his hamstirng?

The fact is Losman is the starter. But, what gets me is the fact that Jauron first was noncommittal and if you saw is interview, he didnt look or sound like someone that was over joyed with his decision to name Losman.

I know the don't want a 3 ring circus at QB like they had last year. But, if JP continues to make the same mistakes and we are not winning, I sense there could be changes in the season similar to last year.

[RedEyE]

Seriously, I'm sick of this conspiracy crap. Dick and Marv have been known their whole career as stand up guys that shoot straight from the hip and now suddenly they're plotting the next Presidential election. (Marv for President!)

It was a wide open competition and the best man won. It's over, now let it go and accept it.

Disclaimer: This message is addressed to everyone who can't accept it, not just RedEyE. :moon:

:rofl:

[RedEyE]

it appears obvious to me they are going with a carolina type offense - get 5-8 yards on the first two downs mostly by running and be patient to take your shots down the field to some very speedy wrs

i can see why holcomb would struggle in that offense. its like the anti-west coast offense which holcomb seems better suited for

i still doubt they are just going to let him walk though. not much reason to not carry him at 2 or 3. so as i said when they signed nall i bet they keep all three. then if somebody comes calling maybe later when they have qb trouble one of the two would fetch a draft pick

Good post :up: