Players I'm High (and low) on.

[patmoran2006]

Players that I'm extremely high on going into this year.. I think they are going to have very good years:
Angelo Crowell (could be the best LB on this team by year's end)
Roscoe Parrish (say bye bye to Price by week six)
Lee Evans (ready to step up)
Robert Royal (underrated)
Kyle Williams (steal of draft)
Ko Simpson (he'll be starting before this year is over- I think he's THAT good)

Players I'm on the bubble about
TKO (how can you not be)
Kelsay/Denney (yawn)
Fowler and Reyes on the OL. (iffy man, I dunno)

Players I think are going to be extremely dissapointing
Chris Villarrial (he sucks)
Peerless Price (Sorry)
Tim Anderson (scrub)
Gandy (Just dont think he's good enough to be a consistent NFL LT)

[LtBillsFan66]

I'm hoping Parrish replaces Reed, not Price.

[Jan Reimers]

I'm hoping Parrish replaces Reed, not Price.
Ditto.

[Saratoga Slim]

My only disagreement is that I don't think Anderson is going to be extremely disappointing. In order to be disappointed, one must have first had hieghtened expectations. I fully expect him to suck.

I have no expectations of stardom from Villarial and Gandy, but am assuming that they'll at least provide some average line play. Thus I'll only be mildly disappointed if they truly crap the bed.

I honestly don't know what to expect from Price. I'll be pleased but not surprised if he turns in a 60 catch, 800 yard season, and likewise not shocked if he doesn't do much at all.

[OpIv37]

Players that I'm extremely high on going into this year.. I think they are going to have very good years:
Angelo Crowell (could be the best LB on this team by year's end)
Roscoe Parrish (say bye bye to Price by week six)
Lee Evans (ready to step up)
Robert Royal (underrated)
Kyle Williams (steal of draft)
Ko Simpson (he'll be starting before this year is over- I think he's THAT good)

Players I'm on the bubble about
TKO (how can you not be)
Kelsay/Denney (yawn)
Fowler and Reyes on the OL. (iffy man, I dunno)

Players I think are going to be extremely dissapointing
Chris Villarrial (he sucks)
Peerless Price (Sorry)
Tim Anderson (scrub)
Gandy (Just dont think he's good enough to be a consistent NFL LT)

I think Crowell is good, but I don't quite share your confidence.
I'm still concerned about Parrish's size.
Lee Evans is the real deal and will have a breakout year.
Royal will contribute to the offense
I like Williams and think he will prove his worth early.
I'm not sold on Simpson yet.

I agree with your bubble players, but I would upgrade Gandy to bubble.

Villarial and Anderson SUCK and I hope we can get rid of them as soon as this season ends.
I have my doubts about Price but he started coming on late in preseason so I still have some hope for him.

I would add Losman as a guy who's going to have a breakout year. I think he's finally getting it.

[patmoran2006]

Im' reserving any judgement on Losman until I see how he handles getting his teeth kicked in the first two weeks on the road and how he responds at home against a ****ty team like the Jets.. The first three weeks will tell a lot about Losman, not so much his numbers but how he handles himself and the decisions he makes.

As for Price, I dont know why, and I'd love to be wrong the more weapons the better.. I just have this feeling he's REALLY GOING TO fall off after the first couple of games.

And as for Crowell, this guy just flat out is a playmaker.

[LtBillsFan66]

Losman is on the bubble as far as I'm concerned.

[THATHURMANATOR]

JP all the way! Thats what I say!

[SABURZFAN]

i think willis could have a good year if the OL can create holes for him.losman could benefit greatly too.the injury to TKO still has me a little worried because that was a bad injury.i'm still not sold on kelsay or denney.

[HHURRICANE]

[quote=patmoran2006]

I think you have Parrish and Price backwards. I keep hearing how fast, quick and ellusive Parrish is but he's done squat so far. I think he's going to be done after this year.

Price on the other hand dominated when he was on the field during the Lions game and caught a TD the week before. He's going to be an excellent addition with Evans on the other side.

Plus Price can block while Parrish gets thrown around like a rag doll.

[R. Rich]

Players that I'm extremely high on going into this year.. I think they are going to have very good years:
Angelo Crowell (could be the best LB on this team by year's end)
Roscoe Parrish (say bye bye to Price by week six)
Lee Evans (ready to step up)
Robert Royal (underrated)
Kyle Williams (steal of draft)
Ko Simpson (he'll be starting before this year is over- I think he's THAT good)

Players I'm on the bubble about
TKO (how can you not be)
Kelsay/Denney (yawn)
Fowler and Reyes on the OL. (iffy man, I dunno)

Players I think are going to be extremely dissapointing
Chris Villarrial (he sucks)
Peerless Price (Sorry)
Tim Anderson (scrub)
Gandy (Just dont think he's good enough to be a consistent NFL LT)

Kyle Williams was a steal. I think in the long run though, Pittsburgh may have gotten the true steal of the draft w/ Anthony Smith. The guy just looked awesome in camp/preseason. He reminded me of Hines Ward (before he was made the starter and developed into the All Pro he is today) in that whenever he got a chance to show what he could do, he usually put on quite a nice show.

[Kelly The Dog]

I think that's a pretty good list. My feeling is that:
1. Parrish will never replace Price or Reed and will likely always be a third down receiver or 3rd receiver. But that doesn't mean he won't be just as valuable in the passing game. I am not sure his size would allow him to play every down, or be a solid blocker. He can be extremely valuable for years to come however. And I also see him being very good this year.
2. Crowell benefitted from playing in Takeo's position in the Bills defensive scheme last year. And he made a ton of tackles seven yards into the defensive backfield. So his numbers were pretty skewed. if he played instead of Posey last year, Had Jeff been injured, he probably would have put up only slightly bigger numbers than Posey. That's the way the defense was set up, for the MLB and the WLB (as well as the SS) to make the vast majority of the tackles. He did play well though, and this year's defense is much different. He could have a far better year than last year and still not make half the tackles he did.
3. I doubt very much that Ko starts this year unless a significant injury to Vincent keeps him out. Next year he should be ready as he's still too raw. He got beat, or gambled and lost a lot in pre-season. I love his future but he/we would be killed if he had to play right now.
4. Royal really impressed me, and even more so, Fairchild really impressed me. I think both Royal and Everett will be major components of our passing game.
5. Evans is a stud. I agree with you on that.

[G. Host]

I'm hoping Parrish replaces Reed, not Price.

I am hoping http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/user_pics/182-1152663298.JPG replaces Wilson not Reed because Wilson show that you can be fast AND take a hit.

[BILLSROCK1212]

I expect good years out of....

Willis McGahee because of his lost weight
Larry Tripplet because this guy has the most experience out of all our DTs and made some big plays in Indy
Angelo Crowell because he had 100 tackles when he didn't start every game and had very little experience
Robert Royal because he is a big red zone target
Donte Whitner because he was a top 10 draft pick
Kyle Williams because he looks like the steal of the draft being drafted in the 5th round pick and is starting on our D-line
JP Losman because he has a huge arm and this is his second full year in the league
Lee Evans because he has a great connection with Losman

Players who I think are on the bubble are....

Peerless Price because he had his best years in Buffalo and has something to prove
Tutan Reyes because he started on one of the best O-lines in the league last year but didnt start before that
Kevin Everett because he hasn't proved much other than being injury prone
Rian Lindell because he has been close to the top 10 in points but he hasn't been clutch

Players who I think are going to be disappointing this year are....

Chris Villarial because he is old and rusty
London Fletcher-Baker because he's aging and won't be good forever
Roscoe Parrish because he has the potential to at least be a number three reciever but won't be that this year

[YardRat]

I think Kelsay/Denney are going to have a decent year in the new defense.

[ParanoidAndroid]

I see Price having his best year since his first in Atlanta. He is in a vertical passing offense and should see his share of bombs. 55 catches 800 yds 5 TD's.
Parrish I expect to become a good 3rd down receiver a la Wayne Chrebet (man he pi**ed me off).
Anderson will still get his share of playing time in the rotation, and he started showing up at the end of last season. He has some way to go to prove himself but let's hope he comes around.
Gandy takes more flak than I think he deserves.
Villarrial is slowing down fast, noticeably.
I agree on Kelsay and Denney...(yawn) Here's to a DE in the 1st round.
Ko Simpson is going to be good, perhaps our best FS in a long while. He would have been a 1st round pick in 07, IMO.
Crowell, Fletcher, TKO - I can't be more proud to have a group of linebackers like this. These guys just don't let up on their intensity. The emergence of Crowell is huge!
Fowler and Reyes are going to get better as this line really comes together. No pro-bowlers here, but they are the makings of a nice group of athletic linemen.
I'm not ready to say Williams was the steal of the draft but he is better than his draft position. I like what I see so far. I think Ko Simpson has a better chance at earning that title.
Robert Royal may have been underutilized in DC, but I don't think he impacts our passing game that much. He'll help in the Red Zone though. Our best since Riemersma.

[Tatonka]

just wondering.. has anyone seen anything out of parrish at all ever?

josh reed has done tons more than parrish.. just in the preseason alone..

parrish hasnt done ****.. so i dont know how you see him replacing anyone.

he needs to catch more than 2 passes in a real nfl game first.

[SABURZFAN]

I think Kelsay/Denney are going to have a decent year in the new defense.


i hope you're right.

[SABURZFAN]

just wondering.. has anyone seen anything out of parrish at all ever?

josh reed has done tons more than parrish.. just in the preseason alone..

parrish hasnt done ****.. so i dont know how you see him replacing anyone.

he needs to catch more than 2 passes in a real nfl game first.


i feel that way about everett.

[Coach Sal]

Angelo Crowell (could be the best LB on this team by year's end)

He already is. Tell me what LB on the roster is better!?


Roscoe Parrish (say bye bye to Price by week six)

Disagree. At this point, I can't see Parrish being anything more than a situational receiver and/or punt returner. But I still like the little guy. Maybe he gets a beter role next year.


Lee Evans (ready to step up)

ONLY if JP Losman stays healthy. They have already demonstrated to be one of the best deep threat combos in the league. Holcomb to Evans, howver, is worthless. If KH has to play, Evans' deep threat ability becomes a non-factor in the offense and renders him an average WR.

That being said, Lee Evans has shown me this preseason he can absolutely handle being a #1, and is just about ready to jump into "elite" status in the NFL.


Robert Royal (underrated)

He may be underrated, but Fairchild's offense (aka Martz) has made the littlest use in the entire league out of the TE position over the past three years. I don't expect much to change. In fact, I'd be shocked if we had any TE catch more than 20 balls and just as shocked if we have a TOTAL of 40 catches by all out TE's this season.


Kyle Williams (steal of draft)

He has been impressive so far, hasn't he? But to say "steal of the draft" is way too early. That's a judgement for three years from now.


Ko Simpson (he'll be starting before this year is over- I think he's THAT good)

He impressed me more and more every week during camp and preseason. But unless TV gets hurt, I don't see him losing his starting job to a rook. Next year Ko will be ready to step into that role.

[billsburgh]

JP all the way! Thats what I say!
:hi5:

[Meathead]

josh reed will be a key part of this offense

DEAL WID IT!

[justasportsfan]

JP has only 2 go to guys he's shown to have confidence in throwing to in actual games. Evans and Reed. One may even say that JP threw to Reed more than he did Evans last year.He may have gone to Parrish at camp last year and this year but who knows how much confidence JP has throwing to Parrish on gameday.


Nothing is known about Royals, Price, Davis ,Everrett,etc. If You take Reed away, we could be back to the Drew Bledsoe days where he stares at one reciever and then check down. It doesn't have to take a genius to gameplan against that.

You want JP to spread the ball to every reciever out there but until then, you do NOT take away his comfortable targets or risk more growing pains.

If Parrish dismantles after the first tackle because of size or Price goes blind after going to the canadian ballet, Davis injures himself putting on his jersey, all of a sudden our wr corps is thin. Why you guys think getting rid of Reed (JP's 2nd target)helps the team baffles the mind.

The guy has caught more balls last year that went for 1st downs and blocked more for players that have went for first downs than dropped balls.

[mysticsoto]

JP has only 2 go to guys he's shown to have confidence in throwing to in actual games. Evans and Reed. One may even say that JP threw to Reed more than he did Evans last year.He may have gone to Parrish at camp last year and this year but who knows how much confidence JP has throwing to Parrish on gameday.


Nothing is known about Royals, Price, Davis ,Everrett,etc. If You take Reed away, we could be back to the Drew Bledsoe days where he stares at one reciever and then check down. It doesn't have to take a genius to gameplan against that.

You want JP to spread the ball to every reciever out there but until then, you do NOT take away his comfortable targets or risk more growing pains.

If Parrish dismantles after the first tackle because of size or Price goes blind after going to the canadian ballet, Davis injures himself putting on his jersey, all of a sudden our wr corps is thin. Why you guys think getting rid of Reed (JP's 2nd target)helps the team baffles the mind.

The guy has caught more balls last year that went for 1st downs and blocked for players that have went for first downs than dropped balls.

If this is indeed the case, then JP needs to break out of this immediately. He should not have targets he favors! If someone is open, he should be throwing to them, period!

The fact that Reed is on the team isn't going to mean much if Evans, Price and Parrish are #1, 2, 3! And now that McGahee and even A-Train are catching balls allowing for more varied calls on offense also means that we'll see alot less of Reed.

Reed right now should be backing up Parrish and doing nothing else. Barring an injury to Parrish, I hope not to see him on the field at all - unless he's on ST!

[justasportsfan]

If this is indeed the case, then JP needs to break out of this immediately. He should not have targets he favors! If someone is open, he should be throwing to them, period!! I agree. but in the meantime how is taking away one of his targets going to help the team?



The fact that Reed is on the team isn't going to mean much if Evans, Price and Parrish are #1, 2, 3! And now that McGahee and even A-Train are catching balls allowing for more varied calls on offense also means that we'll see alot less of Reed.!Again, nothing is known about Price and Parrish. Some people think Price is not the player he once was. Parrish is not only a 3rd or 4th wr, he's also our no.1 punt returner. That's more wear and tear for someone people consider to be too small. What's wrong with having Reed as an extra security blanket? If Parrish (heaven forbid) gets injured or takes a beating reutrning punts, what's wrong with having fresher player in Reed who has PROVEN to have chemistry with JP?

Davis is injury prone.


Reed right now should be backing up Parrish and doing nothing else. Barring an injury to Parrish, I hope not to see him on the field at all - unless he's on ST! Great , take away the guy who caught more passes for 1st downs for Jp last year. That should help the team. NOT.


Like I've said numerous times, Reed too was in the same boat as Moulds having had different qb's, coaches and horrible OL's his entire carreer. If Reed didn't have to be bothered by having to block because of a disgusting OL and just concentrate on running his routes and catching the ball, he could be so much better than he was. Amazing how Moulds get's a pass for his misfortunes he's had his entire carreer w/ the bills , Reed should be extended the same unfortunate circumstances.

You want JP to mature faster, don't take away the players he's proven to have chemistry with. It's that simple. If he ends up having chemistry with , Price, Royals, Parrish, Davis, more is better. We don't lose a hearbeat when someone needs a rest.

[mysticsoto]

I agree. but in the meantime how is taking away one of his targets going to help the team?

Again, nothing is known about Price and Parrish. Some people think Price is not the player he once was. Parrish is not only a 3rd or 4th wr, he's also our no.1 punt returner. That's more wear and tear for someone people consider to be too small. What's wrong with having Reed as an extra security blanket? If Parrish (heaven forbid) gets injured or takes a beating reutrning punts, what's wrong with having fresher player in Reed who has PROVEN to have chemistry with JP?

Davis is injury prone.

Great , take away the guy who caught more passes for 1st downs for Jp last year. That should help the team. NOT.


Like I've said numerous times, Reed too was in the same boat as Moulds having had different qb's, coaches and horrible OL's his entire carreer. If Reed didn't have to be bothered by having to block because of a disgusting OL and just concentrate on running his routes and catching the ball, he could be so much better than he was. Amazing how Moulds get's a pass for his misfortunes he's had his entire carreer w/ the bills , Reed should be extended the same unfortunate circumstances.

You want JP to mature faster, don't take away the players he's proven to have chemistry with. It's that simple. If he ends up having chemistry with , Price, Royals, Parrish, Davis, more is better. We don't lose a hearbeat when someone needs a rest.


Reed is still a security blanket...as a backup. I know JP has dumped off to Reed many times...but how frustrating do you think it might be to JP to have half his balls dropped every time he throws to Reed?

If there's one thing I've begun to pick up from JP is that he's in sync with speedy guys. Evans, Price, Davis and Parrish are all speedy, which means he doesn't have to adjust his timing to them.

Let's be honest, we are probably not going very far this season. .500 would be a great season for our team. So why not let Parrish get some good playing time and develop into a great slot receiver...while at the same time have JP break his "favorite target" syndrome.

We say the same thing for JP's development - that if he had played all of last year, he'd be farther along this year. We say the same thing about the Oline and giving some of these players more experience. Why not apply it to Parrish as well?

By the way, to answer your question about why Moulds got more leeway than Reed did. The difference is, Moulds has done great things in his receiving career. Reed has not done anything but drop balls and disappoint. In that regard, he does not get any special benefit of the doubt. He did have a good last preseason game which is probably why he is still on the team. But other than that, I don't see any reason why he should be on the field other than backing Parrish up and occasionally maybe, giving him a break.

[Night Train]

Players I'm Down on :

Duke Preston - failed miserably at Guard and was thrown back to Center. Still a backup OG by default. Couldn't beat out Chris V., which speaks volumes.

Troy Vincent - is getting slower by the minute. Uber smart but his legs no longer cooperate. He will make a great coach or soon take over for Gene Upshaw as head man for the NFLPA. Ko Simpson or Bowen will soon replace him.

Coy Wire - He was a very good LB at Stanford but too small for the pro's. He cannot play Safety at all. Super nice guy who may be gone the second Bowen gets healthy.

Kelly Holcomb - Checks off and throws short almost to a fault. Has regressed badly in the last year. Doesn't fit the Offense at all, with his weak arm. He'd make a good coach.



Players I'm High on :

Lee Evans - I can count on one hand the NFL WR's who can put 5 yards of seperation on a CB, while the ball is in the air. Lee is one of them. A star who has the complete package of great hands and speed. I'd make it a priority to get him at least 80 catches.

McGahee - He looks like a completely different RB from last year. Lighter, quicker, happier ( loves Fairchild and the gameplan ). Could be sitting on a good year, if the OL doesn't suffer injuries.

Royal - just drives DE's and LB's on blocks. Shows good hands and can split the seam. Fairchild would be wise to call more plays for him. Would be a big asset for Losman. This guy looks like a real find.

Crowell - This Cover 2 D was made for him. Just flys to the ball.

McGee - Still has to work on his CB technique some but showed good improvement last season. The best KR I've ever seen, outside of Gale Sayers.

Moorman - Best Punter in the NFL and an outstanding holder for Lindell.

Losman - jury is still out but he's no longer jumpy and has found some poise in the pocket. Cannon arm and mobility keeps the opposing D from stacking the line. Looks tons better. Ask Evans who his favorite QB is.

Mike Schneck - He signs as our deep snapper and Lindell is suddenly a top 5 kicker in the NFL . Coincidence ? Extend him until he's 45 years old.

[justasportsfan]

Reed is still a security blanket...as a backup. I know JP has dumped off to Reed many times...but how frustrating do you think it might be to JP to have half his balls dropped every time he throws to Reed?.
How many times has he dropped the ball compared to blocking for first downs and catching for first downs, escpecially on 3rd downs?


If there's one thing I've begun to pick up from JP is that he's in sync with speedy guys. Evans, Price, Davis and Parrish are all speedy, which means he doesn't have to adjust his timing to them..until it's proven to be a fact on gameday, again, how is getting rid of his favorite short to medium range target going to help him?



Let's be honest, we are probably not going very far this season. .500 would be a great season for our team. So why not let Parrish get some good playing time and develop into a great slot receiver...while at the same time have JP break his "favorite target" syndrome


We say the same thing for JP's development - that if he had played all of last year, he'd be farther along this year. We say the same thing about the Oline and giving some of these players more experience. Why not apply it to Parrish as well?

By the way, to answer your question about why Moulds got more leeway than Reed did. The difference is, Moulds has done great things in his receiving career. Reed has not done anything but drop balls and disappoint. In that regard, he does not get any special benefit of the doubt. He did have a good last preseason game which is probably why he is still on the team. But other than that, I don't see any reason why he should be on the field other than backing Parrish up and occasionally maybe, giving him a break.

You are willing to give Parrish a shot and yet you've already written Reed off ? I doubt Parrish would've achieved anything if he was in Reeds shoes with different qb's, lousy coaches and horrible OL. He would've probably been broken in two by now. BUt let's not go to what if's, let's deal with what's been proven meaning facts. He may not be a premier wr in the nfl, but I dare anyone to prove he was a liability with JP at qb.

It's all about JP and making his growth to maturity an esier task by not taking away one of his target and not about what peoples opinion of Reed or that he didn't live up to what people thought he could be, a no. 2. He's a great no. 3.

[mysticsoto]

How many times has he dropped the ball compared to blocking for first downs and catching for first downs, escpecially on 3rd downs?
until it's proven to be a fact on gameday, again, how is getting rid of his favorite short to medium range target going to help him?
That's be a statistic I'd like to see. I never understood why they don't keep a count of dropped passes!!!



You are willing to give Parrish a shot and yet you've already written Reed off ? I doubt Parrish would've achieved anything if he was in Reeds shoes with different qb's, lousy coaches and horrible OL. He would've probably been broken in two by now. BUt let's not go to what if's, let's deal with what's been proven meaning facts. He may not be a premier wr in the nfl, but I dare anyone to prove he was a liability with JP at qb.
I'm willing to give Parrish a shot b'cse I've seen what Reed can do - and that is not much. Why do you keep blaming his drops on other things? When a ball hits you on the hands or in the numbers, you have to catch it. It is no one else's fault if the ball falls to the ground.




It's all about JP and making his growth to maturity an esier task by not taking away one of his target and not about what peoples opinion of Reed or that he didn't live up to what people thought he could be, a no. 2. He's a great no. 3.
It's all about us improving as a whole. JP is not the only consideration on the team. Everyone needs to go through growing pains this year, b'cse next year, we are a likely contender for the AFC-East title as we finish filling our holes and should improve into the playoffs.

We cannot keep going through year after year and saying, "Okay, this is Reed's last chance." We've done that for the last 2 years. Depending on Price's performance, he may or may not be supplanted by Wilson next year. Then it will depend on Davis as to whether he stays or goes. I know you said Davis is injury prone, but yet, he's been playing STs and doing pretty well (suprisingly). If he keeps that up, and Wilson is allowed in, somebody may need to be bumped, and in all likelihood, it will be Reed.

The #1 thing that is important for a slot receiver is to be reliable - that gains the confidence of your QB. If Reed were reliable...we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

[justasportsfan]

That's be a statistic I'd like to see. I never understood why they don't keep a count of dropped passes!!!.Someone posted that stat somewhere around hee. You'll be surprised as to how much he was an asset to JP.





I'm willing to give Parrish a shot b'cse I've seen what Reed can do - and that is not much. Why do you keep blaming his drops on other things? When a ball hits you on the hands or in the numbers, you have to catch it. It is no one else's fault if the ball falls to the ground.. NO, you've seen what Reed can do in a bad system. Reed wasn't the only one dropping Drew's passes. So was Moulds. Anyone can see that Drew was one of the worst qb's at short range. Any coach can see that Reed was Drew's only other option or JP's.





It's all about us improving as a whole. JP is not the only consideration on the team. Everyone needs to go through growing pains this year, b'cse next year, we are a likely contender for the AFC-East title as we finish filling our holes and should improve into the playoffs.
exactly, so why is it, everyone get's to prove themselves in a good situation while you want Reed benched? I'd like to see Parrish under a bad team situation like Reed was the last few years. You know it isn't gonna happen but give Reed a chance to prove himself under the same situations you want to see Parrish flourish in. Be fair.




We cannot keep going through year after year and saying, "Okay, this is Reed's last chance." We've done that for the last 2 years. .Under what circumstance was Reed in the last 2 years? Do you not agree that coaching was the worst part of this team. Everyone like JP get's a pass for sucking because "he was set up to fail" while Reed becomes the scapegoat? Not fair is it? Jp's on his 3rd year, let's get rid of him. There's no reason why he sucked last year if Reed doesn't get the same ecuses JP's gets .

EVERYONE was set up to fail.


Depending on Price's performance, he may or may not be supplanted by Wilson next year. Then it will depend on Davis as to whether he stays or goes. I know you said Davis is injury prone, but yet, he's been playing STs and doing pretty well (suprisingly). If he keeps that up, and Wilson is allowed in, somebody may need to be bumped, and in all likelihood, it will be Reed..what's if's again. That's all good IF it happens.


The #1 thing that is important for a slot receiver is to be reliable - that gains the confidence of your QB. If Reed were reliable...we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.that's opinion. Not fact. Let's deal with facts, JP has all the confidence in Reed.

You don't take away someone that helps him.

[mysticsoto]

Someone posted that stat somewhere around hee. You'll be surprised as to how much he was an asset to JP.



NO, you've seen what Reed can do in a bad system. Reed wasn't the only one dropping Drew's passes. So was Moulds. Anyone can see that Drew was one of the worst qb's at short range. Any coach can see that Reed was Drew's only other option or JP's.


exactly, so why is it, everyone get's to prove themselves in a good situation while you want Reed benched? I'd like to see Parrish under a bad team situation like Reed was the last few years. You know it isn't gonna happen but give Reed a chance to prove himself under the same situations you want to see Parrish flourish in. Be fair.

Under what circumstance was Reed in the last 2 years? Do you not agree that coaching was the worst part of this team. Everyone like JP get's a pass for sucking because "he was set up to fail" while Reed becomes the scapegoat? Not fair is it? Jp's on his 3rd year, let's get rid of him. There's no reason why he sucked last year if Reed doesn't get the same ecuses JP's gets .

EVERYONE was set up to fail.
what's if's again. That's all good IF it happens.

that's opinion. Not fact. Let's deal with facts, JP has all the confidence in Reed.

You don't take away someone that helps him.


We'll have to agree to disagree. I think Parrish will be much better than Reed. Perhaps after this season, you'll be agreeing with me.

[justasportsfan]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I think Parrish will be much better than Reed. Perhaps after this season, you'll be agreeing with me.

You read my posts wrong. I am high on Parrish. I think he'll be awsome barring injuries. I think he'll be better than Reed. MY problem is people bashing Reed because he dropped passes in a system that set him up to fail. Some people here talk like he's a liability. Let's see what he can do in a decent system before we call him a bust.

[OpIv37]

You read my posts wrong. I am high on Parrish. I think he'll be awsome barring injuries. I think he'll be better than read. MY problem is people bashing Reed because he dropped passes in a system that set him up to fail. Some people here talk like he's a liability. Let's see what he can do in a decent system before we call him a bust.


looks like you found a new sparring partner for the day :sukrpnch:

:up:

[justasportsfan]

looks like you found a new sparring partner for the day :sukrpnch:

:up:
miscommunication. Mystic is a real fan , not like some fairweathered fans obssessed with bashing the bills :earpoke:

[OpIv37]

miscommunication. Mystic is a real fan , not like some fairweathered fans obssessed with bashing the bills :earpoke:

he bashed reed- he better not come back and compliment Reed if Reed plays well this year- according to you, that makes him a bandwagon jumper.

[justasportsfan]

he bashed reed- he better not come back and compliment Reed if Reed plays well this year- according to you, that makes him a bandwagon jumper.
he criticized Reed not the team. He hasn't apologized about Reed either since Reed hasn't proven him wrong. Someone here who wouldn't even give Price a chance in hell is already changing his tune. I wonder who that would be. :snicker:

[OpIv37]

he criticized Reed not the team. He hasn't apologized about Reed either since Reed hasn't proven him wrong. Someone here who wouldn't even give Price a chance in hell is already changing his tune. I wonder who that would be. :snicker:

why do I owe him- or anyone else- a chance?

[mysticsoto]

why do I owe him- or anyone else- a chance?

1) B'cse guilty until proven innocent is not a good philosophy to have in life. Would you like to live in that sort of judicial system?

2) B'cse otherwise, you end up paying ICE Zonebuxs for being wrong.

3) B'cse you miss out on people who can contribute or who may be diamonds in the rough when you are unwilling to give people chances...had you been GM, you would've missed out on Peters and McGee...

[justasportsfan]

why do I owe him- or anyone else- a chance?you don't, you don't have the power to. You're only a fairweathered fan. You don't work for the bills. but you are starting to eat crow with you're "I could be wrong about Price. "

Hey OP, anyone you hire is being given a chance. That's what people are being given when they get hired. Just like when you got hired at work. It's common sense.

[OpIv37]

you don't, you don't have the power to. You're only a fairweathered fan. You don't work for the bills. but you are starting to eat crow with you're "I could be wrong about Price. "

Hey OP, anyone you hire is being given a chance. That's what people are being given when they get hired. Just like when you got hired at work. It's common sense.
well, if my record at my last two jobs was as bad as Price's, no one would hire me.

I made a prediction about Price- just like everyone from people on this board to national talking heads do week in and week out. The prediction is based on past performance, which isn't a perfect indicator. Therefore, some predictions will be right and some will be wrong. If I'm wrong, but the Bills are winning, I'm willing to eat crow.

And you still haven't answered this question: If I'm a fairweather fan, WHY AM I STILL HERE WHEN THE TEAM SUCKS? Why am I still here when I think the team is doing stupid things? A fairweather fan is someone who bails when the weather isn't fair- and obviously I'm still here.

[mysticsoto]

You read my posts wrong. I am high on Parrish. I think he'll be awsome barring injuries. I think he'll be better than Reed. MY problem is people bashing Reed because he dropped passes in a system that set him up to fail. Some people here talk like he's a liability. Let's see what he can do in a decent system before we call him a bust.

Good to hear and know...but if you are high on Parrish...where do you want Reed to fit in? As a #2 WR ahead of Price and/or Davis? Or are you really saying what I'm saying...backing up Parrish as an occasional WR on the field? I'm okay with that...

[justasportsfan]

well, if my record at my last two jobs was as bad as Price's, no one would hire me.

I made a prediction about Price- just like everyone from people on this board to national talking heads do week in and week out. The prediction is based on past performance, which isn't a perfect indicator. Therefore, some predictions will be right and some will be wrong. If I'm wrong, but the Bills are winning, I'm willing to eat crow.
wrong. Obviously people are smart enough to disect the reasons why Price failed the last 2 years therefore giving the benefit of the doubt. Even you are starting to realize that Fairchild may have been right. Now stop talking while your mouth if full. The feathers are flying all over the place.


And you still haven't answered this question: If I'm a fairweather fan, WHY AM I STILL HERE WHEN THE TEAM SUCKS? Why am I still here when I think the team is doing stupid things? A fairweather fan is someone who bails when the weather isn't fair- and obviously I'm still here

why is feelthepain still here? You guys are waiting for the bills to fall flat on their face so you guys can say, "i told you so".

[justasportsfan]

Good to hear and know...but if you are high on Parrish...where do you want Reed to fit in? As a #2 WR ahead of Price and/or Davis? Or are you really saying what I'm saying...backing up Parrish as an occasional WR on the field? I'm okay with that...Like I said, Parrish has more responsibilities by being our no. 1 punt returner. There could be some wear and tear down the road or especially at the end of the game . Reed will be huge in the rotation for no. 3 if Price does end up no. 2.


I don't think Fairchild is stupid enough to keep Reed if Wilson was way better than Reed. I'm almost sure that Davis was the LAST one to get the roster spot. Not Reed.

[OpIv37]

wrong. Obviously people are smart enough to disect the reasons why Price failed the last 2 years therefore giving the benefit of the doubt. Even you are starting to realize that Fairchild may have been right. Now stop talking while your mouth if full. The feathers are flying all over the place.


I forgot. It's never the player's fault with you. It's always the coach or the system or the QB or some other factor. NEVER the player- that's just too out there.



why is feelthepain still here? You guys are waiting for the bills to fall flat on their face so you guys can say, "i told you so".

You read what you want to read- I've said I hope I'm wrong many times. I even said it in the post you quoted. Do you really think I care enough about what people think to spend so much time on this message board just to come back and say "I told you so"? **** that. The reason I'm here all the time- and have been for the last 3 years- is because I'm a fan of the team and this is the easiest way to get information being out of market. If you can't see that, you've got issues.

The thing is, I can't win. If I'm wrong, everyone will rip on me and I'll have to eat crow. I'll gladly take it, because it will mean the Bills will be winning, but it still means I'm getting ripped on.

If I'm right and the Bills suck, then I have to keep my mouth shut because people like you will claim I care more about being right than the Bills winning. I was right about a lot of things last year, particularly the run D, but I didn't come back and rub that in everyone's face.

[justasportsfan]

I forgot. It's never the player's fault with you. It's always the coach or the system or the QB or some other factor. NEVER the player- that's just too out there. another comprehension problem. The fact that I'm saying Reed isa no. 3 and not a no. 2 means he's being held accountable. DUH!!!




You read what you want to read- I've said I hope I'm wrong many times. I even said it in the post you quoted. Do you really think I care enough about what people think to spend so much time on this message board just to come back and say "I told you so"? **** that. The reason I'm here all the time- and have been for the last 3 years- is because I'm a fan of the team and this is the easiest way to get information being out of market. If you can't see that, you've got issues.

The thing is, I can't win. If I'm wrong, everyone will rip on me and I'll have to eat crow. I'll gladly take it, because it will mean the Bills will be winning, but it still means I'm getting ripped on.

If I'm right and the Bills suck, then I have to keep my mouth shut because people like you will claim I care more about being right than the Bills winning. I was right about a lot of things last year, particularly the run D, but I didn't come back and rub that in everyone's face.

You set yourself up the day you refused to give anyone a chance just because a move does not agree with your expert opinion. Deal with it. I too had doubts about Price and you know it. But I was willing to give him a chance and you weren't. So go swallow your stupid logic of "no one deserves a chance" .

[mysticsoto]

Like I said, Parrish has more responsibilities by being our no. 1 punt returner. There could be some wear and tear down the road or especially at the end of the game . Reed will be huge in the rotation for no. 3 if Price does end up no. 2.


I don't think Fairchild is stupid enough to keep Reed if Wilson was way better than Reed. I'm almost sure that Davis was the LAST one to get the roster spot. Not Reed.


I don't think Wilson makes a good slot receiver. He was aiming to back up Price at the #2 WR position. Surprisingly, Davis beat him out. I didn't think he would do it, but Davis turned it up those last 2 preseason games and more impotantly, has turned it up on ST!

I wonder if our ST will be even better than it has been in the past...

[OpIv37]

1) B'cse guilty until proven innocent is not a good philosophy to have in life. Would you like to live in that sort of judicial system?

2) B'cse otherwise, you end up paying ICE Zonebuxs for being wrong.

3) B'cse you miss out on people who can contribute or who may be diamonds in the rough when you are unwilling to give people chances...had you been GM, you would've missed out on Peters and McGee...

guilty until proven innocent is justa's term, not mine, and even if it was mine, why would you think that I would want to apply the same system to a legal system that I would to a football player?

You have this whole thing backwards. Why should fans assume a player has skills that he hasn't demonstrated in 3 years?

[justasportsfan]

I wonder if our ST will be even better than it has been in the past...I really think so. I've never seen the bills practice ST as much in the past. We didn't play our starters in preseason.

[OpIv37]

another comprehension problem. The fact that I'm saying Reed isa no. 3 and not a no. 2 means he's being held accountable. DUH!!!



I was talking about Price, then out of nowhere you start talking about Reed? I'm not the one with a comprehension problem.



You set yourself up the day you refused to give anyone a chance just because a move does not agree with your expert opinion. Deal with it. I too had doubts about Price and you know it. But I was willing to give him a chance and you weren't. So go swallow your stupid logic of "no one deserves a chance" .

You're assuming a player has skills that he haven't demonstrated in 3 years. That's just naive. I don't see what's wrong with assuming Price will be the same player he's been over the last 3 years until he proves otherwise.

And I never said "no one deserves a chance"- what I said was I'd rather bring in players that are PROVEN than ones who deserve a chance. I know this isn't possible for every position in the salary cap age, but it seems to me that this team has way too many "let's give him a chance" guys to succeed. Unless, of course, Marv is smarter than every other GM in the NFL.

[justasportsfan]

guilty until proven innocent is justa's term, not mine,


Puhllease, I'm not the only one who says that about your whiny posts.

[justasportsfan]

I was talking about Price, then out of nowhere you start talking about Reed? I'm not the one with a comprehension problem. you accused me of not blaming a player. And since I don't think that Reed is nothing but a no. 3 means I am blaming him or that he is being held accountable for his underachieving. . DUH!!! Need me to dumb it further for you?

And BTW, I held POSEY accountable,you where the one crying about letting him go DUH!!!




You're assuming a player has skills that he haven't demonstrated in 3 years. That's just naive. I don't see what's wrong with assuming Price will be the same player he's been over the last 3 years until he proves otherwise.

How can he prove otherwise when you weren't even willing to bring him in for a closer look. Man, you're getting dumber by the post.

[mysticsoto]

guilty until proven innocent is justa's term, not mine, and even if it was mine, why would you think that I would want to apply the same system to a legal system that I would to a football player?

You have this whole thing backwards. Why should fans assume a player has skills that he hasn't demonstrated in 3 years?

1) B'cse the coaches are seeing it also and that's why they are giving them the chance to begin with

2) B'cse the fans can see it in TC on the field and for those that are away, have reported it.

3) B'cse we've seen signs in the preseason already

4) B'cse Price did well as a #2 WR here. It was when he left to be a #1 WR that he fared poorly. Here, he is #2 again with Evans being a top #1 that will draw double teams like last year! This is the system that Price produced well in, and it is the system he will be in again.

Keep in mind that if Price ends up at #2 this Sunday, it is not b'cse he asked for it, or b'cse a coach assumed he should get it...it will be b'cse he has earned it over all the other WRs on the team!

It is one good thing this FO/coach are doing... People were suprised that Gates, Jerman, and others were let go. But one thing should have stood out - veteran status means nothing. You have to EARN your position!!!

[OpIv37]

Puhllease, I'm not the only one who says that about your whiny posts.

I am not satisfied with this team, hence I will be complaining/*****ing/whining/venting- whatever you want to call it- until they start winning.

If you are satisfied with the garbage that's been going on for the last 6+, feel free to not complain.

[justasportsfan]

I am not satisfied with this team, hence I will be complaining/*****ing/whining/venting- whatever you want to call it- until they start winning.

If you are satisfied with the garbage that's been going on for the last 6+, feel free to not complain.
now you're changing your tune. First you tell me that was my term now your trying to change it. It's always your tactic. Everytime you get owned , you nit pick certain parts of my posts that you are only able to reply to.

I know you're not satisfied. You've repeated that several times here already. You've already given up on the team this season. We know that. Stop crying when some of us would still want the bills to PLAY THE GAME instead of playing dead like you want them to.

[OpIv37]

you accused me of not blaming a player. And since I don't think that Reed is nothing but a no. 3 means I am blaming him or that he is being held accountable for his underachieving. . DUH!!! Need me to dumb it further for you?

And BTW, I held POSEY accountable,you where the one crying about letting him go DUH!!!




How can he prove otherwise when you weren't even willing to bring him in for a closer look. Man, you're getting dumber by the post.

for the LAST ****ING TIME- I was complaining about a lack of a backup for Spikes, which is still a problem. Posey was merely the impetus that allowed me to see that.

You know, Mike Williams may actually be better than we thought- maybe the new staff should bring him in for a closer look. And was Todd Collins ever really that bad? He might prove otherwise if we bring him in for a closer look.

Seriously, at what point do you say "this guy just isn't worth a closer look- there has to be someone better out there"?

[OpIv37]

now you're changing your tune. First you tell me that was my term now your trying to change it. It's always your tactic. Everytime you get owned , you nit pick certain parts of my posts that you are only able to reply to.

I'm not changing my tune at all. the post you quoted had absolutely nothing to do with the tone you're referring to.

[OpIv37]

now you're changing your tune. First you tell me that was my term now your trying to change it. It's always your tactic. Everytime you get owned , you nit pick certain parts of my posts that you are only able to reply to.

I know you're not satisfied. You've repeated that several times here already. You've already given up on the team this season. We know that. Stop crying when some of us would still want the bills to PLAY THE GAME instead of playing dead like you want them to.

I never said I wanted them to play dead. You and Willis McNasty said that. I said we shouldn't expect results.

[mysticsoto]

I am not satisfied with this team, hence I will be complaining/*****ing/whining/venting- whatever you want to call it- until they start winning.

If you are satisfied with the garbage that's been going on for the last 6+, feel free to not complain.


It is unrealistic to expect a turnaround in 1 year and have them go 16-0. Were you happy with Tom Donahoe and Mike Mularkey? Were you happy with Mike Williams' or Bennie Anderson' play? How about Jerman? Did you enjoy the QB carousel last year?

If you were dissatisfied with last year's play, then you should be happy that a substantial amt of changes have been made to remove ourselves from some of the causes in the past that have kept us losing. This is probably one of the bigger problems with you. You don't acknowledge that and instead complain about our losing...yes, we have done badly...but how about looking at the changes that we've done to change our direction? You seem to only look at the immediate and not long term or potential. In your eyes, if someone hasn't produced lately, they are no good. Bill Bellichek should never have been hired by the Patriots b'cse he sucked beforehand as a coach. That's your philosophy - guilty until proven innocent or maybe a "What have you done for me lately?" type of thing. McGee got burned quite a few times in his 1st and even 2nd year. But now, he's almost at an elite status! People grow and change all the time which is why you have to judge them based on what you see now from them, and not what you saw in the past.

B'cse you don't seem to acknowledge this much, if at all, it is why people question whether your heart really stands with this team or not.

[OpIv37]

It is unrealistic to expect a turnaround in 1 year and have them go 16-0. Were you happy with Tom Donahoe and Mike Mularkey? Were you happy with Mike Williams' or Bennie Anderson' play? How about Jerman? Did you enjoy the QB carousel last year?

If you were dissatisfied with last year's play, then you should be happy that a substantial amt of changes have been made to remove ourselves from some of the causes in the past that have kept us losing. This is probably one of the bigger problems with you. You don't acknowledge that and instead complain about our losing...yes, we have done badly...but how about looking at the changes that we've done to change our direction? You seem to only look at the immediate and not long term or potential. In your eyes, if someone hasn't produced lately, they are no good. Bill Bellichek should never have been hired by the Patriots b'cse he sucked beforehand as a coach. That's your philosophy - guilty until proven innocent or maybe a "What have you done for me lately?" type of thing. McGee got burned quite a few times in his 1st and even 2nd year. But now, he's almost at an elite status! People grow and change all the time which is why you have to judge them based on what you see now from them, and not what you saw in the past.

B'cse you don't seem to acknowledge this much, if at all, it is why people question whether your heart really stands with this team or not.

you're right- it's unrealistic to expect a turnaround in 1 year. But don't we as fans have the right to be pissed that we're in a situation where we need to rebuild? This rebuilding should have been done by now and it's frustrating that it's not.

You obviously have read my posts selectively. First, I don't assume that different is better. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't- I'm not convinced that every single change Marv and Co made is going to help us win.

I've also said several times that some of the moves seem to be setting us up well for the future. But the price of that is this season, and a lot of people here can't see that. Marv went for a long-term strategy instead of the quick-fix FA strategy that Tom Donahoe utilized- even justa will agree with me on that one. So, we fixed some holes this off-season but left some things unchanged and created some new holes in the process.

In '04 I slammed McGee for how he played corner, but last year I gave him credit when he was one of the few bright spots on this D- you can go back and check the old posts if you don't believe me.

The thing is that, despite the changes, this team still has a lot of holes. And when fans start talking about how great this team is going to be, it makes us look like complete jackasses collectively and gives the front office an excuse not to get better. If fans are satisfied with mediocrity and get excited about moves like bringing back Peerless Price, the FO can make money with minimal expense/effort and has no motivation to ACTUALLY make this team better.

[THATHURMANATOR]

For me I am high on:

Royal
Everett
JP
Evans
Crowell

Down on
Kelsay
Vincent
Mcgee

[justasportsfan]

for the LAST ****ING TIME- I was complaining about a lack of a backup for Spikes, which is still a problem. Posey was merely the impetus that allowed me to see that.

You know, Mike Williams may actually be better than we thought- maybe the new staff should bring him in for a closer look. And was Todd Collins ever really that bad? He might prove otherwise if we bring him in for a closer look.

Seriously, at what point do you say "this guy just isn't worth a closer look- there has to be someone better out there"? MIssed the point again. YOu accused me of not blaming playes. I showed you I do and Posey was one of them. DUH!!

Don't be stupid, Mike Williams and Todd Collins had their chance here. They we liabilities. Price did well here and was an asset. According to Fairchild, Price fits his system. While I don't pretend to now more than him unlike YOU, I will give Fairchild a shot at that decision.

[justasportsfan]

you're right-. You finally admit it. :up:

[OpIv37]

MIssed the point again. YOu accused me of not blaming playes. I showed you I do and Posey was one of them. DUH!!

Don't be stupid, Mike Williams and Todd Collins had their chance here. They we liabilities. Price did well here and was an asset. According to Fairchild, Price fits his system. While I don't pretend to now more than him unlike YOU, I will give Fairchild a shot at that decision.

and after he left here, Price was a liability for two other teams. According to Fairchild, he fits the system, but fitting the system and being washed up aren't mutually exclusive, so there is reason to doubt Fairchild's decision. Questioning authority isn't a bad thing- you shouldn't assume someone is right just because they're a so-called "expert" or in a position of authority. In fact, wasn't it you who bashed the so-called "experts" for their analysis of this year's draft?

[THATHURMANATOR]

I think Peerless has looked good in the preseason...

[justasportsfan]

and after he left here, Price was a liability for two other teams. According to Fairchild, he fits the system, but fitting the system and being washed up aren't mutually exclusive, so there is reason to doubt Fairchild's decision. Questioning authority isn't a bad thing- you shouldn't assume someone is right just because they're a so-called "expert" or in a position of authority. In fact, wasn't it you who bashed the so-called "experts" for their analysis of this year's draft?

Another stupid post as usual.

I never assumed that Fairchild's decision to either be wrong or right. I just let him do what he does, coach. I am giving Fairchild the benefit of a doubt with that decision that you weren't willing to do. You on the other hand assume it's wrong the minute he signs Peerless and now you're starting to say " I could be wrong". Do you not see the stupidity of your ways?

[justasportsfan]

I think Peerless has looked good in the preseason... I agree. Even the negative nancies seem to say "I could be wrong". :coocoo:

[OpIv37]

Another stupid post as usual.

I never assumed that Fairchild's decision to either be wrong or right. I just let him do what he does, coach. I am giving Fairchild the benefit of a doubt with that decision that you weren't willing to do. You on the other hand assume it's wrong the minute he signs Peerless and now you're starting to say " I could be wrong". Do you not see the stupidity of your ways?

My assumption that he's wrong is a prediction, much like many other people here have made- much like people make about sports, politics etc all the time. I know when I say it that there's a chance I'm wrong, but I had a legitimate reason to doubt the decision (Price's prior performance). All the people who thought Price was a good signing had as much a chance (I'd argue more of a chance) of being wrong as I did. But you don't go around saying that their posts are "stupid".

[mysticsoto]

you're right- it's unrealistic to expect a turnaround in 1 year. But don't we as fans have the right to be pissed that we're in a situation where we need to rebuild? This rebuilding should have been done by now and it's frustrating that it's not.

You obviously have read my posts selectively. First, I don't assume that different is better. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't- I'm not convinced that every single change Marv and Co made is going to help us win.

I've also said several times that some of the moves seem to be setting us up well for the future. But the price of that is this season, and a lot of people here can't see that. Marv went for a long-term strategy instead of the quick-fix FA strategy that Tom Donahoe utilized- even justa will agree with me on that one. So, we fixed some holes this off-season but left some things unchanged and created some new holes in the process.

In '04 I slammed McGee for how he played corner, but last year I gave him credit when he was one of the few bright spots on this D- you can go back and check the old posts if you don't believe me.

The thing is that, despite the changes, this team still has a lot of holes. And when fans start talking about how great this team is going to be, it makes us look like complete jackasses collectively and gives the front office an excuse not to get better. If fans are satisfied with mediocrity and get excited about moves like bringing back Peerless Price, the FO can make money with minimal expense/effort and has no motivation to ACTUALLY make this team better.

Sure, Op. You do have a right to be pissed - but not at this FO or at new players. They weren't the ones that lost us games the last few years. You seem to take out your anger on them instead of directing it toward who really deserves it - TD, Mularkey, Gray, Mike Williams, Bennie Anderson, Jerman, etc. These people deserve your anger - they were MAJOR contributors to our losing season last year!

So...in '04, what were some of the things you said about McGee? That we should have done better than him? That we should have brought in a *real* CB instead of relying on a mediocre (at best?) CB? And yet, you were wrong. What if you're wrong about Price? What if he excels in our system? Then you just say, "Ooops I was wrong" and shrug your shoulders. Which is why you shouldn't sound so sure that Price is just "mediocre" as you say. You don't know how he will fare in our system.

Seems to me like we have alot to be optimistic about. We've let go alot of dead weight (most of it with Mike Williams) and that alone is a major contribution for why we are a better team for it. This is something that most Bill fans see and are happy with - even if we end up being a sub .500 team this year. B'cse the direction that we are headed in is correct from where we were before!

[justasportsfan]

My assumption that he's wrong is a prediction, much like many other people here have made- much like people make about sports, politics etc all the time. I know when I say it that there's a chance I'm wrong, but I had a legitimate reason to doubt the decision (Price's prior performance). All the people who thought Price was a good signing had as much a chance (I'd argue more of a chance) of being wrong as I did. But you don't go around saying that their posts are "stupid".
Puhlease, you just weren't making a prediction, you pretty much said it was wrong to bring Peerless in. Then in another post your admitted , "okay I should've given him the benefit of a doubt" and then now "I could be wrong (about Peerless)" You keep changing your stance. Next time, rather than saying this and that is wrong with an exclamation point, just give it a chance before you decide. You are so quick to bash a move. How many times do I have to show you the right way .


you're right-.
I know I am. Stop repeating it already.

[OpIv37]

Sure, Op. You do have a right to be pissed - but not at this FO or at new players. They weren't the ones that lost us games the last few years. You seem to take out your anger on them instead of directing it toward who really deserves it - TD, Mularkey, Gray, Mike Williams, Bennie Anderson, Jerman, etc. These people deserve your anger - they were MAJOR contributors to our losing season last year!

So...in '04, what were some of the things you said about McGee? That we should have done better than him? That we should have brought in a *real* CB instead of relying on a mediocre (at best?) CB? And yet, you were wrong. What if you're wrong about Price? What if he excels in our system? Then you just say, "Ooops I was wrong" and shrug your shoulders. Which is why you shouldn't sound so sure that Price is just "mediocre" as you say. You don't know how he will fare in our system.

Seems to me like we have alot to be optimistic about. We've let go alot of dead weight (most of it with Mike Williams) and that alone is a major contribution for why we are a better team for it. This is something that most Bill fans see and are happy with - even if we end up being a sub .500 team this year. B'cse the direction that we are headed in is correct from where we were before!

I'll be happy once they actually show some improvement on the field. The thing that people tend to forget quickly is that we've been through this before- twice in the last 5 years- without producing results. So even though I like some of the moves, I'm still approaching this with trepidation.

I don't remember exactly what i said about McGee but I doubt it was as harsh as you make it sound. and no, I don't know how Price will fare, but like I just told justa, his prior performance is certainly reason for concern. You can talk about systems and QB's all you want, but the fact remains that at some level the player is responsible for his own performance.

[justasportsfan]

looks like you found a new sparring partner for the day :sukrpnch:



Sure, Op. You do have a right to be pissed - but not at this FO or at new players. They weren't the ones that lost us games the last few years. You seem to take out your anger on them instead of directing it toward who really deserves it - TD, Mularkey, Gray, Mike Williams, Bennie Anderson, Jerman, etc. These people deserve your anger - they were MAJOR contributors to our losing season last year!

So...in '04, what were some of the things you said about McGee? That we should have done better than him? That we should have brought in a *real* CB instead of relying on a mediocre (at best?) CB? And yet, you were wrong. What if you're wrong about Price? What if he excels in our system? Then you just say, "Ooops I was wrong" and shrug your shoulders. Which is why you shouldn't sound so sure that Price is just "mediocre" as you say. You don't know how he will fare in our system.

Seems to me like we have alot to be optimistic about. We've let go alot of dead weight (most of it with Mike Williams) and that alone is a major contribution for why we are a better team for it. This is something that most Bill fans see and are happy with - even if we end up being a sub .500 team this year. B'cse the direction that we are headed in is correct from where we were before!
:roflmao:

[OpIv37]

Puhlease, you just weren't making a prediction, you pretty much said it was wrong to bring Peerless in. Then in another post your admitted , "okay I should've given him the benefit of a doubt" and then now "I could be wrong (about Peerless)" You keep changing your stance. Next time, rather than saying this and that is wrong with an exclamation point, just give it a chance before you decide. You are so quick to bash a move. How many times do I have to show you the right way .


I know I am. Stop repeating it already.

So, if I had said "I don't think Price will contribute to this team" instead of "Bringing in Price is a bad move", then I would have been ok?

Btw I never said I should have given him the benefit of the doubt- at first I said it was a bad move, then after the last two preseason games I said I might have been wrong about that.

I guess no one can make predictions in your eyes because if they're wrong and admit it later, then it's backtracking.

[justasportsfan]

So, if I had said "I don't think Price will contribute to this team" instead of "Bringing in Price is a bad move", then I would have been ok?.at least give it a benefit of a doubt instead of being definite that it's a bad move like it's a fact when it isn't.


Btw I never said I should have given him the benefit of the doubt- at first I said it was a bad move, then after the last two preseason games I said I might have been wrong about that. .



of course you did , I even answered, you're finally looking my way. I can find that post if you want me to but why should I ?



I guess no one can make predictions in your eyes because if they're wrong and admit it later, then it's backtracking.



it's called eating crow.



you're right. Okay, say this one more time and I won't respond. Stop it!!!!

[OpIv37]

at least give it a benefit of a doubt instead of being definite that it's a bad move like it's a fact when it isn't.


so, your whole problem is that I was too definitive in the way I stated my opposition to the Price signing? Seems like a semantic argument to me.

It's as simple as this. I thought it was a bad idea to bring in Price. The last two preseason games suggest that I may have been wrong- if that trend continues once the season starts, I'll take my crow grilled with some barbeque sauce, please.

[mysticsoto]

I'll be happy once they actually show some improvement on the field. The thing that people tend to forget quickly is that we've been through this before- twice in the last 5 years- without producing results. So even though I like some of the moves, I'm still approaching this with trepidation.

I don't remember exactly what i said about McGee but I doubt it was as harsh as you make it sound. and no, I don't know how Price will fare, but like I just told justa, his prior performance is certainly reason for concern. You can talk about systems and QB's all you want, but the fact remains that at some level the player is responsible for his own performance.

Yes, we were there/here 5 years ago. Unfortunately, we've had one coaching experiment after another. TD's biggest faults were his bad choices for coaches. He had some excellent draft picks and some good negotiation skills (though letting Pat Williams go was probably a mistake) but his coaching choices were absolutely horrendous. B'cse of him, we have been setback so many years. We are rid of him, Mularkey and some of the most terrible Olinemen we've ever known.

Sometimes you sound fair-minded, like when you say, "So even though I like some of the moves, I'm still approaching this with trepidation." That is a very fair statement to make. You should talk like this more often and have this heard. A good portion of the time, you appear to whisper things like this, but shout your negative views out...

[justasportsfan]

so, your whole problem is that I was too definitive in the way I stated my opposition to the Price signing? Seems like a semantic argument to me.

It's as simple as this. I thought it was a bad idea to bring in Price. The last two preseason games suggest that I may have been wrong- if that trend continues once the season starts, I'll take my crow grilled with some barbeque sauce, please. No, the problem is your lack of ability to keep an open mind about things even if our past history was horrible forgetting that the people in charge of those seasons are gone. Marv and co. are fallible but give em' a chance. He didn't make HOF by being football stupid. Let things take it's course before we start crucifying people.

[justasportsfan]

Yes, we were there/here 5 years ago. Unfortunately, we've had one coaching experiment after another. TD's biggest faults were his bad choices for coaches. He had some excellent draft picks and some good negotiation skills (though letting Pat Williams go was probably a mistake) but his coaching choices were absolutely horrendous. B'cse of him, we have been setback so many years. We are rid of him, Mularkey and some of the most terrible Olinemen we've ever known.

Sometimes you sound fair-minded, like when you say, "So even though I like some of the moves, I'm still approaching this with trepidation." That is a very fair statement to make. You should talk like this more often and have this heard. A good portion of the time, you appear to whisper things like this, but shout your negative views out...
OP, keep your guard up. Your new sparring partner Mystic has been nailing you with jabs and uppercuts and you haven't even attempted to hit back . :up:

[OpIv37]

No, the problem is your lack of ability to keep an open mind about things even if our past history was horrible forgetting that the people in charge of those seasons are gone. Marv and co. are fallible but give em' a chance. He didn't make HOF by being football stupid. Let it things take it's course before we start crucifying people.

well it depends what you mean by "crucify people". If we as fans see a move we don't like, it's fair game for criticism. If we like a move, it's fair game to compliment it- knowing that in either case there's a chance that we're wrong.

[OpIv37]

Yes, we were there/here 5 years ago. Unfortunately, we've had one coaching experiment after another. TD's biggest faults were his bad choices for coaches. He had some excellent draft picks and some good negotiation skills (though letting Pat Williams go was probably a mistake) but his coaching choices were absolutely horrendous. B'cse of him, we have been setback so many years. We are rid of him, Mularkey and some of the most terrible Olinemen we've ever known.

Sometimes you sound fair-minded, like when you say, "So even though I like some of the moves, I'm still approaching this with trepidation." That is a very fair statement to make. You should talk like this more often and have this heard. A good portion of the time, you appear to whisper things like this, but shout your negative views out...

Well, there's no doubt I get a little excitable on here when people don't seem to be hearing me out, not to mention the years of disappointment from this team have made me somewhat cynical so my gut reaction is often more negative than it needs to be.

We're rid of some of the most terrible O linemen, but we still have others- Chris Villarial comes to mind.

[justasportsfan]

well it depends what you mean by "crucify people". If we as fans see a move we don't like, it's fair game for criticism. If we like a move, it's fair game to compliment it- knowing that in either case there's a chance that we're wrong.
How many times do I have to tell you , it's okay to criticize. It's another thing to trash the team. Trashing the team over and over again for something that has yet to have facts is talking like you're absolutely right.

I don't think this OL is gonna get us to the playoffs. But you don't see me trashing them because I realize it takes time to rebuild. If anyone says anything postive , you are quick to shoot it down. You're the first one pissed about some positive OPINIONS where some of which aren't homeristic in the meantime all you have are OPINIONs too.

[OpIv37]

How many times do I have to tell you , it's okay to criticize. It's another thing to trash the team. Trashing the team over and over again for something that has yet to have facts is talking like you're absolutely right.

I don't think this OL is gonna get us to the playoffs. But you don't see me trashing them because I realize it takes time to rebuild. If anyone says anything postive , you are quick to shoot it down. You're the first one pissed about some positive OPINIONS where some of which aren't homeristic in the meantime all you have are OPINIONs too.

well you're putting a whole positive/negative spin on it, which isn't the true nature of the problem. The issue isn't who's positive and who's negative- it's about the fact that I disagree with someone else on here.

Now, I can't speak for everyone, but if I have an opinion, there is a reason for it. That doesn't make it fact- it just means that some logical thought went into the formulation of that opinion. So, if someone disagrees with me, I shoot back with the reasons for my opinion. Some people have good reasons for disagreeing with me and they say so- other people (like Skooby) just believe what they want to believe, regardless of facts or logic.

As it turns out, this team has been pretty bad lately so most of my opinions have been negative. But if and when I do have something positive to say, I will defend it just as vigorously.

[justasportsfan]

That doesn't make it fact- it just means that some logical thought went into the formulation of that opinion. .and so does defending the Peerless Price pick and yet you wouldn't even give it a benefit of a doubt until recently. There have been several resasons (whether they are true or not remains to be seen) as to why he failed with Atlanta. Wrong qb , new coach, etc. Yet you could never accept those reasons which BTW seems to hold some truth based on what's going on at camp.
I never discounted the fact that Price could fail but never said he was a mistake either until we've taken a closer look which you refused to do. I gave him a benefit of a doubt and I don't think it is going to be a mistake for doing so.

[OpIv37]

and so does defending the Peerless Price pick and yet you wouldn't even give it a benefit of a doubt until recently. There have been several resasons (whether they are true or not remains to be seen) as to why he failed with Atlanta. Wrong qb , new coach, etc. Yet you could never accept those reasons which BTW seems to hold some truth based on what's going on at camp.
I never discounted the fact that Price could fail but never said he was a mistake either until we've taken a closer look which you refused to do. I gave him a benefit of a doubt and I don't think it is going to be a mistake for doing so.

right, and you would never accept the reasons I had for doubting the pick so if he had played poorly in the last two preseason games, I could easily be saying the same thing about you.

Look, it goes like this: Peerless Price is a guy who had some success in the league, then dropped off sharply and was cut by two teams. The Bills bring him in. You say "well he's worth a closer look." I say "Isn't there anyone with a better track record?"

Now, I was still in school for most of FA so I wasn't paying too much attention- maybe there wasn't anyone better that was within the Bills' means. But Price was a guy that we let go before, and in fact many on this board found it quite comical that we essentially traded him for Willis McGahee. It's one of the few moves by TD that is universally accepted as good by Bills fans.

I just want to see the Bills put the best players possible on the field, and when there's some doubt as to whether or not he's the best player we can get, I'm going to be critical.

[justasportsfan]

right, and you would never accept the reasons I had for doubting the pick so if he had played poorly in the last two preseason games, I could easily be saying the same thing about you..what? Pull out that thread and I'll show you that I agreed to a certain extent I had my doubts about him reviving his career becaue of his failures in Atlanta. . Go ahead, pull the thread. I also was willing to give him the benefit of a doubt that he failed because of Vick etc.

I took both sides into account which is why I said, "WAIT AND SEE" You only wanted to use his failure as a basis for not giving him a chance. Go ahead, pull the thread.



Look, it goes like this: Peerless Price is a guy who had some success in the league, then dropped off sharply and was cut by two teams. The Bills bring him in. You say "well he's worth a closer look." I say "Isn't there anyone with a better track record?"

Now, I was still in school for most of FA so I wasn't paying too much attention- maybe there wasn't anyone better that was within the Bills' means. But Price was a guy that we let go before, and in fact many on this board found it quite comical that we essentially traded him for Willis McGahee. It's one of the few moves by TD that is universally accepted as good by Bills fans.

I just want to see the Bills put the best players possible on the field, and when there's some doubt as to whether or not he's the best player we can get, I'm going to be critical.Price was already brought in by the time we had our argument about Price. It's was done, the move was made . You weren't willing to give that decision a chance. If we had a discussion before he was hired then yes, I'd say I'd rather go somewhere else but it was already done and since it's a Marv decision, what can I do but instead give Marv the benefit of a doubt. What do I know compared to MArv and Fairchild? You insisted it was still wrong, now you're changing your mind. See the difference?

[OpIv37]

what? Pull out that thread and I'll show you that I agreed to a certain extent I had my doubts about him reviving his career. Go ahead, pull the thread.

Price was already brought in by the time we had our argument about Price. It's was done, the move was made . You weren't willing to give that decision a chance. If we had a discussion before he was hired then yes, I'd say I'd rather go somewhere else but it was already done and since it's a Marv decision, what can I do but instead give Marv the benefit of a doubt. What do I know compared to MArv and Fairchild? You insisted it was still wrong, now you're changing your mind. See the difference?

Right, I was wrong. Or, at the moment it seems as though I was wrong. So? It's not like you've never been wrong about anything.

[justasportsfan]

Right, I was wrong. Or, at the moment it seems as though I was wrong. So? It's not like you've never been wrong about anything.I've been wrong so many times which is why I have the wait and see attitude escpecially with the new staff. Helloo!!!!

[OpIv37]

I've been wrong so many times which is why I have the wait and see attitude escpecially with the new staff. Helloo!!!!

like I said- if I don't think it is going to help the team win, I'm going to say so. I'm willing to take the risk that I'm wrong.

[justasportsfan]

like I said- if I don't think it is going to help the team win, I'm going to say so. I'm willing to take the risk that I'm wrong.and I've always welcomed your opinion until you start crapping on ours thats optimistic without being homeristic.

[OpIv37]

and I've always welcomed your opinion until you start crapping on ours thats optimistic without being homeristic.

well disagreeing isn't necessarily crapping on your opinions.

Although, at times, the length of the off-season and the stubbornness of some people around here gets to me and I may be unnecessarily caustic/pessimistic.

[patmoran2006]

For me I am high on:

Royal
Everett
JP
Evans
Crowell

Down on
Kelsay
Vincent
Mcgee

why are you down on Mcgee?