Why does everyone think our D is so good?

[OpIv37]

Ok, let me start off by saying there are some things I like about this D. TKO, if he stays healthy, is a beast. Crowell is up and coming. The depth and athleticism of the DB's (excluding Coy Wire) is good. And Kyle Williams may be the steal of the draft.

But that being said, I think this D is in trouble.

First, this is a new system, and while it seems to fit most of the personnel well, it's going to take time for the players to get used to it. In preseason, the starters looked confused and there were several blown coverages. There were numerous holes in the zone. I fully expect this to improve as the season goes on, but in the meantime, I also expect this D to get lit up on multiple occasions.

Second, TKO. His injury is perhaps the toughest one to recover from. Sam Cowart, who had the same injury a few years back, was cut this past week. If this guy is 100% or even 80%, no problem. But there's no guarantee that he will be.

Third: Kelsay, Tim Anderson and Coy Wire could be STARTERS- wtf? These guys are a bunch of career underacheivers. Wire is on the team for ST and is not a good fit for this D. Anderson got pushed around by Detroit's scrubs in the last preseason game.

Fourth, and this is somewhat redundant- the DL. Tripplett is solid and Schobel's definitely above average, but Anderson and Kelsay suck. I'm not sure on McCargo yet and I like Williams, but this is a sub-par unit. They tend to go backwards on running plays, and the athleticism of our DB's will be a non-factor if the front 4 can't generate pressure. In preseason, the first teamers weren't exactly getting stood up on passing plays, but they always seemed to be a step too slow.

Fifth, Linebackers. TKO (if healthy), Fletcher, and Crowell may be one of the best starting LB corps in the league. But behind them is guys like Hunter and Digiorgio. There is no depth here. If the starters stay healthy, no problem. But one injury and this unit is screwed.


Taken together, this D is still a stud DT, a decent DE and depth at LB away from being good. I expect this D to tighten up a little over the course of the season, but it ain't gonna be pretty. Don't expect them to be able to get off the field and definitely don't expect them to win games for us like they did in 03 and 04.

[patmoran2006]

Get ready for the Homer brigade dude..

[OpIv37]

Get ready for the Homer brigade dude..

yeah I know.

I don't want to get into that homer/realist thing though. I think these are legit concerns about this D, and I'd like to see how the people who think highly of this D answer them.

[M]

Great? I don't know ... I'm just hoping they are better than last year!

[OpIv37]

Great? I don't know ... I'm just hoping they are better than last year!

I don't think the run D will be any better than last year.

The Pass D could be if the DL can generate a pass rush, which means Kelsay and at least one of the 4 DT's in the rotation (Anderson, Williams, McCargo, Tripplett) will really have to step it up.

[L.A. Playa]

Op I think people are optimistic because outside of Fletcher and Vincent every starter is young and appears to have potential to get better

A new scheme and a new attitude maybe just what the doctor ordered for these guys, when they lost Spikes last year it just took the wind out of the sails of the defense, I think being humbled from the point of this time last year bragging they where the best defense ever to finishing as one of the worst will also motivate them to do better.

People have hope that a new scheme and a fresh approach to coaching may actually motivate players to play up to and some exceed what is their percieved potential

every team is 0-0 and every team is alive for the playoffs that is why there is optimism nobody not even the most knowledgable expert can predict what will really happen once the ball is kicked off

[SquishDaFish]

Ill wait to see a few reg season games before I say how its going to be. I agree on the depth though. If there is any major injuries we are in trouble.

[Stewie]

I personally don't think our D will be very good at all. I wouldn't be surprised if our O ranks higher than our D at the end of the season.

[Night Train]

I think the structure for a future good D is being put into place. I see we drafted our 2 future starting safeties in Whitner and Simpson. McGee stays and Greer or Youboty will replace Nate. McCargo and Williams instantly play in a 4 man rotation. Triplett is OK and Anderson played very well in the last 4 games. But if you wish to keep ragging on him, have at it. It means little to me. I can see his play.
Schobel is decent and Kelsay/Denney share the other side until we draft their replacement next year. They still are good depth after that.

The talented Crowell will be playing LB for a while but I realize TKO and London Ginger Baker Fletcher need replacements to be identied soon, just in case. Isn't this the last year of Fletchers contract ? He'll be 32, I believe.
I sure like the blazing speed of Ellison, the 6th rounder who seems to fit this D. He could play outside.

If some here have stated the D's going to be good now, they're taking a huge leap of faith. It's still a year away but I do like what I see. But the names WILL change and people need to realize it's still a work until they can settle in all the positions with youth. That's what new staffs do. Saying it's good or bad now is silly. We won't know for at least a year, while some current starters are replaced and the scheme is executed correctly.

Just move it along in the right direction in 2006 . That's all.

[The last buffalo fan]

I'm sure we are a better defense now, than we were last year. You like dumb reporter said it last year, before the season started. "The Buffalo Bills are a better defense than the 2004 season defense, on paper". So, let's be that "paper defense" again (j/k).

Remove the old, no goal, and unhappy veterans from last year (Adams, Posey, Miloy), and add the youth, pride and willingness to be the super nfl star and earn the big bucks. That my friend, it is enough for me.

[justasportsfan]

IMO our D is better and thats mostly what I've red around here. We've upgraded but I have yet to read that it's "so good"

[justasportsfan]

I don't think the run D will be any better than last year.

.
First time I've heard/read you say that.

[John Doe]

Fourth, and this is somewhat redundant- the DL. Tripplett is solid and Schobel's definitely above average, but Anderson and Kelsay suck. I'm not sure on McCargo yet and I like Williams, but this is a sub-par unit. They tend to go backwards on running plays, and the athleticism of our DB's will be a non-factor if the front 4 can't generate pressure. In preseason, the first teamers weren't exactly getting stood up on passing plays, but they always seemed to be a step too slow.


Let me get this straight: You like Triplett, Schobel, and Williams - 75% of our starters - but the line sucks.

[justasportsfan]

and Anderson played very well in the last 4 games. But if you wish to keep ragging on him, have at it. It means little to me. I can see his play.
.
:up:

[OpIv37]

Let me get this straight: You like Triplett, Schobel, and Williams - 75% of our starters - but the line sucks.

I don't believe Williams has been confirmed as a starter. But even if he is, the DL will be a rotation and Tim Anderson will get significant playing time. That will make it easy for Schobel and the other DT (Tripplett or McCargo, most likely) to get double teamed.

I like Schobel against the pass- not so much against the run. Tripplett is good but not dominant- if he has to pick up the slack for Anderson and Kelsay, he won't be able to do it.

[justasportsfan]

I don't believe Williams has been confirmed as a starter. But even if he is, the DL will be a rotation and Tim Anderson will get significant playing time. That will make it easy for Schobel and the other DT (Tripplett or McCargo, most likely) to get double teamed.

I like Schobel against the pass- not so much against the run. Tripplett is good but not dominant- if he has to pick up the slack for Anderson and Kelsay, he won't be able to do it.
I believe the players are gonna be better in a system that fits them better. Kelsay and Denney have looked better than I've ever seen them play before.

[L.A. Playa]

Get ready for the Homer brigade dude..

last time I checked this was a Bills message board, so in essence isnt everyone who is a Bills fan and takes teh time to frequent, read and post here a "homer" ???

[Jan Reimers]

I think - with the addition of Whitner, Triplett, McCargo and Williams, the subtraction of Adams, Milloy and Posey, the development of Crowell and the (hopefully) return to health of Spikes - that it will be better than last year. But that's not saying much.

We'll be faster, which is good, and younger, which - at least for awhile - may not be so good. I think that our D, as well as our O, will suffer some growing pains, but will eventually grow into a strong unit.

This whole team is necessarily a work in progress, so it is very difficult to say how good we'll be, and when.

[OpIv37]

Triplett is OK and Anderson played very well in the last 4 games. But if you wish to keep ragging on him, have at it. It means little to me. I can see his play.


I don't think Anderson played well at all. He's good at batting down balls and he did a lot of that in the last four games. But he can't rush the passer worth a damn and the cover 2 requires pressure from the front four. He also gets consistently stood up on running plays.

Since most of the starters were out, I focused on him in the last preseason game against Detroit. He was getting stood up at the line of scrimmage and pushed back. And I don't mean 1 or 2 plays- I mean pretty much every play.

The guy sucks.

[justasportsfan]

last time I checked this was a Bills message board, so in essence isnt everyone who is a Bills fan and takes teh time to frequent, read and post here a "homer" ???
Anyone who doesn't think the bills are going to win only 4 games is a homer as far as Pat is concerned. Funny thing is OP thinks we'll win more than 4 games. He's a homer too.

[L.A. Playa]

I think I have no clue how many games teh Bills will win, what does taht make me ???

[Night Train]

last time I checked this was a Bills message board, so in essence isnt everyone who is a Bills fan and takes teh time to frequent, read and post here a "homer" ???

Not if you're a " Realist ". Then you're supposedly wiser and need to straighten everyone out. :blah:

[OpIv37]

I believe the players are gonna be better in a system that fits them better. Kelsay and Denney have looked better than I've ever seen them play before.

Kelsay has been a little better- I'll give you that. But whether he can continue to play well enough to force offenses to commit attention away from Schobel and Tripplett or Williams remains to be seen.

Denney- I honestly don't know. I don't recall him doing anything great in preseason, but I wasn't really watching for him either.

[John Doe]

I don't believe Williams has been confirmed as a starter. But even if he is, the DL will be a rotation and Tim Anderson will get significant playing time. That will make it easy for Schobel and the other DT (Tripplett or McCargo, most likely) to get double teamed.

I like Schobel against the pass- not so much against the run. Tripplett is good but not dominant- if he has to pick up the slack for Anderson and Kelsay, he won't be able to do it.

If Anderson is as bad as you make him out to be, then he would not be in the NFL. To think that his play as a rotational player will drag down the rest of the line to the extent that you believe is more than a little far fetched.

How is Anderson's reduced playing time going to be make it "easy" to control Schobel? Anderson started most of last year and Schobel finished as one of the top pass rushers in the league. By your logic, with Anderson seeing less time on the field, Schobel should be even better. Plus, McCargo will probably see a lot of time at his spot on passing downs.

[OpIv37]

Op I think people are optimistic because outside of Fletcher and Vincent every starter is young and appears to have potential to get better

A new scheme and a new attitude maybe just what the doctor ordered for these guys, when they lost Spikes last year it just took the wind out of the sails of the defense, I think being humbled from the point of this time last year bragging they where the best defense ever to finishing as one of the worst will also motivate them to do better.

People have hope that a new scheme and a fresh approach to coaching may actually motivate players to play up to and some exceed what is their percieved potential

every team is 0-0 and every team is alive for the playoffs that is why there is optimism nobody not even the most knowledgable expert can predict what will really happen once the ball is kicked off


good post, except for the 0-0 thing. I don't buy that at all because it implies every team is equal, and we know that to be false. The NFL is not a random lottery- some teams have better coaches and better players and are in a better position to win than others. We may not know the exact order of how they will finish and there will be some surprises, but no one could defend the statement that the Jets and the Panthers have an equal shot at winning because they're both 0-0.

[justasportsfan]

Kelsay has been a little better- I'll give you that. But whether he can continue to play well enough to force offenses to commit attention away from Schobel and Tripplett or Williams remains to be seen.

Denney- I honestly don't know. I don't recall him doing anything great in preseason, but I wasn't really watching for him either.
so you like the DT's and Kelsay improved ? So what's the problem if people think we're better than last year and by saying that how is our run D not any better than last year?Based on that you too think we've ugraded :idunno:

Crowell too is an upgrade to Posey. Let's leave Spikes out of the picture for a moment. I'm talking about last years run D without Spikes. So how is it we haven't improved?

[L.A. Playa]

good post, except for the 0-0 thing. I don't buy that at all because it implies every team is equal, and we know that to be false. The NFL is not a random lottery- some teams have better coaches and better players and are in a better position to win than others. We may not know the exact order of how they will finish and there will be some surprises, but no one could defend the statement that the Jets and the Panthers have an equal shot at winning because they're both 0-0.

though the Panthers may have more talent on paper, there are still so many factors taht cant be known, such as turnovers, penalties, injuries and suspensions. Also, chemistry with new players, no one will really know what teams are going to do until about 4 games into the season.

every team has some reason to be optimistic at this point, the optimism may not be to win the Super Bowl but to just see progress towards that goal

[OpIv37]

If Anderson is as bad as you make him out to be, then he would not be in the NFL. To think that his play as a rotational player will drag down the rest of the line to the extent that you believe is more than a little far fetched.

How is Anderson's reduced playing time going to be make it "easy" to control Schobel? Anderson started most of last year and Schobel finished as one of the top pass rushers in the league. By your logic, with Anderson seeing less time on the field, Schobel should be even better. Plus, McCargo will probably see a lot of time at his spot on passing downs.

If whoever replaces Anderson on the field (Williams, McCargo, etc) needs to be double teamed, that means Schobel can't be double teamed and he will be better. Either that, or Schobel will get double teamed and someone else will be able to get to the passer- if that someone isn't Anderson. He can easily be handled by one man.

The less Anderson is on the field, the better off we'll be.

And individual stats are meaningless if they don't contribute to wins. Obviously Schobel's sacks weren't enough to get wins, so D's were finding other ways to attack our offense, such as running at Tim Anderson.

[OpIv37]

so you like the DT's and Kelsay improved ? So what's the problem if people think we're better than last year and by saying that how is our run D not any better than last year? :idunno:

Crowell too is an upgrade to Posey. Let's leave Spikes out of the picture for a moment. I'm talking about last years run D without Spikes. So how is it we haven't improved?

I like half the DT's. McCargo is a big question mark so far and Anderson blows.

Kelsay improved, but better isn't necessarily good enough. There is a long way to go from the level where Kelsay was playing to the level that can be considered good.

I said the LB's were good, assuming no injuries.

And I didn't say we haven't improved on D- just that we won't be very good. If we're 27th in the league, we improved over last year, but it still sucks.

[justasportsfan]

If whoever replaces Anderson on the field (Williams, McCargo, etc) needs to be double teamed, that means Schobel can't be double teamed and he will be better. Either that, or Schobel will get double teamed and someone else will be able to get to the passer- if that someone isn't Anderson. He can easily be handled by one man.

The less Anderson is on the field, the better off we'll be.

Is that fact or your opinion.

I beg to differ. The Lions' starting D couldn't handle him in the first qtr. I doubt he can EASILY handled 1 on 1. Anderson is not Jaurons draft. Jauron is not stupid. If Anderson is as bad as you claim he is, he would've been cut. He may not be a probowler but Jauron does not agree that Tim is as bad as you say he is.

[justasportsfan]

Kelsay improved, but better isn't necessarily good enough.
Huh? Better enough compared to last year.

[John Doe]

If whoever replaces Anderson on the field (Williams, McCargo, etc) needs to be double teamed, that means Schobel can't be double teamed and he will be better. Either that, or Schobel will get double teamed and someone else will be able to get to the passer- if that someone isn't Anderson. He can easily be handled by one man.

The less Anderson is on the field, the better off we'll be.

And individual stats are meaningless if they don't contribute to wins. Obviously Schobel's sacks weren't enough to get wins, so D's were finding other ways to attack our offense, such as running at Tim Anderson.

So, if Anderson played more last year and Schobel was 5th in the leauge in sacks, then Anderson playing less this year means that Schobel will be less successful?!? If Anderson were to be cut, would Schobel would be even worse?!

You have set up a direct relationship with Anderson's playing time and the success of the defense. Logically, now that Anderson is playing less, the defense should be better.

If Schobel was ineffective because they were running at Anderson, then how did Schobel get 12 sacks.

This is really confusing.

[patmoran2006]

I think the structure for a future good D is being put into place. I see we drafted our 2 future starting safeties in Whitner and Simpson. McGee stays and Greer or Youboty will replace Nate. McCargo and Williams instantly play in a 4 man rotation. Triplett is OK and Anderson played very well in the last 4 games. But if you wish to keep ragging on him, have at it. It means little to me. I can see his play.
Schobel is decent and Kelsay/Denney share the other side until we draft their replacement next year. They still are good depth after that.

The talented Crowell will be playing LB for a while but I realize TKO and London Ginger Baker Fletcher need replacements to be identied soon, just in case. Isn't this the last year of Fletchers contract ? He'll be 32, I believe.
I sure like the blazing speed of Ellison, the 6th rounder who seems to fit this D. He could play outside.

If some here have stated the D's going to be good now, they're taking a huge leap of faith. It's still a year away but I do like what I see. But the names WILL change and people need to realize it's still a work until they can settle in all the positions with youth. That's what new staffs do. Saying it's good or bad now is silly. We won't know for at least a year, while some current starters are replaced and the scheme is executed correctly.

Just move it along in the right direction in 2006 . That's all.

One of the most well thought out and accurate (in my opinion) posts I've seen this entire summer.. Absolutely dead-on.

I think personally this defense sucks right now.. HOWEVER, the "structure" for a very good defense to come over the next few years is being put in place.

In fact, I feel that way about the team in general.. I still say and have all along we are a 4-win team this season, BUT, I do like the structure being built so we can hopefully contend in the near future.

Excellent post man.

[justasportsfan]

This is really confusing.
it's gonna get worse.

[L.A. Playa]

should be interesting around here Sunday afternoon

[Jan Reimers]

I think I have no clue how many games teh Bills will win, what does taht make me ???
Exactly like the rest of us.

[ublinkwescore]

I think Highly of what this D will be capable of after some Gelling, and make no mistake, this D will play with far more intensity now that TKO is back - we probably won't return to top 10 status this season, but I'll bet you all my ZBs we finish no lower than 17th overall.

[L.A. Playa]

I think Highly of what this D will be capable of after some Gelling, and make no mistake, this D will play with far more intensity now that TKO is back - we probably won't return to top 10 status this season, but I'll bet you all my ZBs we finish no lower than 17th overall.

are you Gelling ???

http://www.americarx.com/ProductImages/personalcare/563023.jpg

[ublinkwescore]

Nope.

I don't buy products from companies that put out annoying commercials...

I won't eat Snickers until they get rid of the happy peanuts song guy, buy Dr. Scholl's anything, or Trojan Condoms (why buy them when they're free?)

[OpIv37]

Is that fact or your opinion.

I beg to differ. The Lions' starting D couldn't handle him in the first qtr. I doubt he can EASILY handled 1 on 1. Anderson is not Jaurons draft. Jauron is not stupid. If Anderson is as bad as you claim he is, he would've been cut. He may not be a probowler but Jauron does not agree that Tim is as bad as you say he is.

Cut for who? Jason Jefferson? He's here because of lack of other options. You may think I'm exaggerating, but he's bad enough to be a liability to our D. Last year proved that.

I know you're going to say "well he'll benefit from the system". The system won't keep him from getting blown off the ball on runs.

And as far as Kelsay goes- he's better than last year, but better doesn't mean good enough. I don't know how to dumb it down any further. Maybe you'll understand if I use numbers: Last year he was a 2 out of 10. This year, maybe he's a 5. but he needs to be a 7 to be good enough. Does that make sense?

[OpIv37]

So, if Anderson played more last year and Schobel was 5th in the leauge in sacks, then Anderson playing less this year means that Schobel will be less successful?!? If Anderson were to be cut, would Schobel would be even worse?!

You have set up a direct relationship with Anderson's playing time and the success of the defense. Logically, now that Anderson is playing less, the defense should be better.

If Schobel was ineffective because they were running at Anderson, then how did Schobel get 12 sacks.

This is really confusing.

You're equating Schobel's sacks with success of the defense and ignoring all the other measures where this D fell well short. It's not that confusing- because Schobel was getting sacks, the D's ran at Anderson instead of passing. ie- Schobel held his own so they found another hole in the D.

Yes, this D might be better than last years, and the less Anderson is on the field, the better it will be. But 27th out of 32 is better than last year- it's still not good enough.

[OpIv37]

Look, I'm not denying that the D has improved in some areas. I'm just saying they're still not good enough and we can't count on them to win games. By the end of the year, they may be decent, and with one or two additions I could see them being good next year.

But at the beginning of the year, it's not going to be pretty. And we're one injured linebacker away from being a complete disaster.

[justasportsfan]

Last year proved that.


And as far as Kelsay goes- he's better than last year, but better doesn't mean good enough. I don't know how to dumb it down any further. Maybe you'll understand if I use numbers: Last year he was a 2 out of 10. This year, maybe he's a 5. but he needs to be a 7 to be good enough. Does that make sense?
Last year? Well I guess JP is gonna blow since he blew last year. Oh wait, he's a year older and with a better coaching staff. You cannot give one person credit and then blast another especially when you are using last year. Everyone blew.

and no, you can't tell me that if Anderson is as bad as you think he is, Jauron wouldn't have found someone who could at least not be a liability. You have not been at camp, he did well in preseason so what else is your basis that he sucks so bad? Last year. Let's get rid of everyone. They all blew based on last year. Again, you are not giving the new staff the benefit of a doubt that they don't think Anderson is not a liability but going with your expert opinion.

Now again, are you talking about facts or your opinion that Anderson is a liability against the run?

PS are we still arguing whether "everyone thinks the D is so good" or that everyone thinks the D has upgraded?

[justasportsfan]

Look, I'm not denying that the D has improved in some areas. I'm just saying they're still not good enough and we can't count on them to win games. By the end of the year, they may be decent, and with one or two additions I could see them being good next year.

But at the beginning of the year, it's not going to be pretty. And we're one injured linebacker away from being a complete disaster.who's been saying that we expect them to win games? :idunno:

[OpIv37]

Last year? Well I guess JP is gonna blow since he blew last year. Oh wait, he's a year older and with a better coaching staff. You cannot give one person credit and then blast another especially when you are using last year. Everyone blew.

and no, you can't tell me that if Anderson is as bad as you think he is, Jauron wouldn't have found someone who could at least not be a liability. You have not been at camp, he did well in preseason so what else is your basis that he sucks so bad? Last year. Let's get rid of everyone. They all blew based on last year. Again, you are not giving the new staff the benefit of a doubt that they don't think Anderson is not a liability but going with your expert opinion.

Now again, are you talking about facts or your opinion that Anderson is a liability against the run?

PS are we still arguing whether "everyone thinks the D is so good" or that everyone thinks the D has upgraded?

what the hell are you talking about with Kelsay? I said he improved over last year but still wasn't good enough- I wasn't saying he was going to play exactly the same as he did last year. Damn.

I think the way Anderson played last year and in preseason THIS YEAR is proof enough. You'll insist it's opinion, but if you watch him on the field, it seems like fact to me.

Several people have said the D will be dominant- Skooby, rdmercer83 and ublink have each said it several times. Typo said it in the NE score prediction thread. Others have too- feel free to look it up.

[justasportsfan]

what the hell are you talking about with Kelsay? I said he improved over last year but still wasn't good enough- I wasn't saying he was going to play exactly the same as he did last year. Damn.

I think the way Anderson played last year and in preseason THIS YEAR is proof enough. You'll insist it's opinion, but if you watch him on the field, it seems like fact to me.

Several people have said the D will be dominant- Skooby, rdmercer83 and ublink have each said it several times. Typo said it in the NE score prediction thread. Others have too- feel free to look it up.

Answer the question first or else we're aguing a moot point. Majority think the D improved. Not EVERYONE is saying our D is soooo good like you are blaming everyone. Skooby and the others you mentioned aren't everyone not even majority ,so don't go around talking like we're all homers here.

Is our D sooooo good? No.

Did our run D improve ? IMO , YES. Since you like the other DT's and think Kelsay improved then that's my point. We've improved and you seem to agree but doesn't mean our D is soo good. I never said kelsays improvement makes our D so good. Just that it's improved.

[OpIv37]

Answer the question first or else we're aguing a moot point. Majority think the D improved. Not EVERYONE is saying our D is soooo good like you are blaming everyone. Skooby and the others you mentioned aren't everyone not even majority ,so don't go around talking like we're all homers here.

Is our D sooooo good? No.

Did our run D improve ? IMO , YES. Since you like the other DT's and think Kelsay improved then that's my point. We've improved and you seem to agree but doesn't mean our D is soo good. I never said kelsays improvement makes our D so good. Just that it's improved.

oh, excuse me for using the wrong pronoun- maybe I should have said why does ANYONE think our D is so good.

Despite Kelsay's improvement, our D is gonna look BAD when Kelsay and Anderson are on the field at the same time. That's a scary combination.

[justasportsfan]

oh, excuse me for using the wrong pronoun- maybe I should have said why does ANYONE think our D is so good.

Despite Kelsay's improvement, our D is gonna look BAD when Kelsay and Anderson are on the field at the same time. That's a scary combination.that's your opinion. Can't argue with that. It's my opinion that our run D is gonna be better compared to last years even with Anderson. :tongue:

[OpIv37]

that's your opinion. Can't argue with that. It's my opinion that our run D is gonna be better compared to last years .

and I disagree. and even if it's better, it may not be good enough.

Looks like we'll have to wait and see.... wonder where I heard that before.

[justasportsfan]

and I disagree. and even if it's better, it may not be good enough.

Looks like we'll have to wait and see.... wonder where I heard that before.I was willing to put my opinion where my mouth is. :fishing:

[onceproudbillsfan]

Why dont we stop for a minute and figure out why the d was so bad last year. Lets see the leader of our d got hurt week 3 but nobody has said that our o could not move the chains last year. We were terrible on third down due to coaching, we were pass happy, and we had a ton of 3 and outs. There is not one d in this league that can play good if they are on the field all the time. Think about it. Our d will be better because I believe we will run the ball more this year and it will give the d more time to rest. If we can get some production out of the o this year we wont be that bad.

[LtBillsFan66]

Op I think people are optimistic because outside of Fletcher and Vincent every starter is young and appears to have potential to get better

A new scheme and a new attitude maybe just what the doctor ordered for these guys, when they lost Spikes last year it just took the wind out of the sails of the defense, I think being humbled from the point of this time last year bragging they where the best defense ever to finishing as one of the worst will also motivate them to do better.

People have hope that a new scheme and a fresh approach to coaching may actually motivate players to play up to and some exceed what is their percieved potential

every team is 0-0 and every team is alive for the playoffs that is why there is optimism nobody not even the most knowledgable expert can predict what will really happen once the ball is kicked off
:bf1:

[OpIv37]

Why dont we stop for a minute and figure out why the d was so bad last year. Lets see the leader of our d got hurt week 3 but nobody has said that our o could not move the chains last year. We were terrible on third down due to coaching, we were pass happy, and we had a ton of 3 and outs. There is not one d in this league that can play good if they are on the field all the time. Think about it. Our d will be better because I believe we will run the ball more this year and it will give the d more time to rest. If we can get some production out of the o this year we wont be that bad.

you're forgetting that the D is responsible for getting itself off the field too. Think back to the Tampa Bay game early in the season (before TKO got injured). The Bucs just kept shoving the ball down our throats, even early in the game. Yes, it would have helped if the O had stayed on the field longer. But the D didn't do what it had to do to stop the Bucs either.

Most of the season was like that.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Third: Kelsay, Tim Anderson and Coy Wire could be STARTERS- wtf? These guys are a bunch of career underacheivers. Wire is on the team for ST and is not a good fit for this D. Anderson got pushed around by Detroit's scrubs in the last preseason game.

Fourth, and this is somewhat redundant- the DL. Tripplett is solid and Schobel's definitely above average, but Anderson and Kelsay suck. I'm not sure on McCargo yet and I like Williams, but this is a sub-par unit. They tend to go backwards on running plays, and the athleticism of our DB's will be a non-factor if the front 4 can't generate pressure. In preseason, the first teamers weren't exactly getting stood up on passing plays, but they always seemed to be a step too slow.

.

You are constantly harping on D line. Yes Kelsey could start but he will be in a rotation with Denney(who has looked decent), Hasn't Kyle williams been elevated to starter? Wire may start the game but we have the 8th overall pick who will be starting very soon so why make a big deal about Wire?

[onceproudbillsfan]

Its hard for the d to get off the field if they are on the field most of the game.

[OpIv37]

You are constantly harping on D line. Yes Kelsey could start but he will be in a rotation with Denney(who has looked decent), Hasn't Kyle williams been elevated to starter? Wire may start the game but we have the 8th overall pick who will be starting very soon so why make a big deal about Wire?

because any time he's on the field, he's a liability. It only takes one play for him to give up 30 or 40 yards. And QB's like Brady are smart enough to look for his jersey number before every snap.

Denney and Kelsay may have improved over where they were last year but they're still not good enough.

Williams is good but Tim Anderson will still get significant playing time. Honestly- do you think Kelsay-Anderson-Tripplett-Schobel or Denney-Anderson-McCargo-Schobel can get the job done? There are colleges with better DL's than that.

[OpIv37]

Its hard for the d to get off the field if they are on the field most of the game.

yes but if you remember last year, it wasn't like the D was forcing three and outs at the beginning of the game then got tired at the end because the O was going three and out. They were getting beat from the beginning. Early in the game when they're not tired, it's the D's own responsibility to get off the field and they didn't do it last year.

[~CHIEF~]

THE BILLS R RAW!

[onceproudbillsfan]

How about the miami game when we blew the 21 point lead. Do you blame the d on that game or the coaching staff and o?

[OpIv37]

How about the miami game when we blew the 21 point lead. Do you blame the d on that game or the coaching staff and o?

all three. Everyone screwed up that game. But I mostly blame it on Nate Clements. People with selective memories try to say that it was the coaching staff's fault or that Nate wasn't lined up on Chambers. But that's not how it happened- Clements was consistently beaten all day.

And don't give me that 10 yard cushion nonsense because that cushion should be gone by the time Chambers was catching the ball 20-25 yards from the LOS.

[onceproudbillsfan]

No im going to give you that on first and goal instead of running the ball MM decides to throw the ball and it gets intercepted. That was the turning point. Instead of being up 28 points it turned into only being up 14. This is what im talking about the coaching staff had alot to do with the d being bad last year and the o being bad.