Boy.... Randy Moss,

[feelthepain]

Looks awsome!!! If you like invisible, I can see where Bill fans think the only reason Daunte had success was because of the superbly talented WR!!! The only problem is if everything Daunte was, was because of Moss then why isn't moss MR.Everything in Oakland where there stacked with talent??? Randy didn't seem to do much for Kerry Collins and so far he doesn't seem to be helping Aaron Brooks!! Maybe Randy was succesful because of Daunte, not the other way around!!

[Mitchy moo]

Can anyone really help Aaron Brooks look good? :dolfan:

[feelthepain]

Can anyone really help Arron Brooks look good? :dolfan:

Yeah the "best WR in the league" according to Bill fans!! Joe Horn didn't seem to have a problem making the probowl with Brooks as his QB!! btw, you better pray that JP turns out be half as good as Brooks, he's had a real nice career so far, even though he's gotten a bad rap. You Bill fan love to talk about JP but he hasn't done squat in the NFL and then you trash a guy like Brooks who owns quite a few records in New Orleans that were set by the likes of Archie Manning. Not exactly a slouch.

[LABillsFan]

He got lambasted for calling out Brooks on that pass earlier. Jaws was not in the mood.

[jmb1099]

Dude you're really reaching here. I understand your frustration, but Oak line stinks on fire. If they had more than half second to throw Moss could be a factor. Relax, you guys are probably fine.

[Devin]

Seriously lol.

While Culpeper sucks equally without Moss, Moss has Aaron Brooks at QB lol. Not to mention the QB starts with the ball every play, to my knowledge Moss has caught everything thats come his way so far tonight.

Whats Culpeper's excuse? Apart from being terrible.

[feelthepain]

Dude you're really reaching here. I understand your frustration, but Oak line stinks on fire. If they had more than half second to throw Moss could be a factor. Relax, you guys are probably fine.


Oaklands line stinks??? I saw a few plays where Brooks was sacked and it was a coverage sack!!! I'm not frustrated at all. I just find it amusing how some people make excuses when it suits them like Bill fans that don't want Miami to have a dominant QB. I also find it hard to believe Randy is much more then Avg. He won't make the probolw this year...at least not for his stats and Brooks won't get much help from Randy because for all the kudos he gets, seldom if ever gives 100%. Daunte Culpepper made Randy a better WR not the other way around. Also Chris Carter helped Randy as much as anybody.

[Devin]

Oaklands line stinks??? I saw a few plays where Brooks was sacked and it was a coverage sack!!! I'm not frustrated at all. I just find it amusing how some people make excuses when it suits them like Bill fans that don't want Miami to have a dominant QB. I also find it hard to believe Randy is much more then Avg. He won't make the probolw this year...at least not for his stats and Brooks won't get much help from Randy because for all the kudos he gets, seldom if ever gives 100%. Daunte Culpepper made Randy a better WR not the other way around. Also Chris Carter helped Randy as much as anybody.

Then you havent really been watching that Gallery fellow starting at LT is getting his big ass whooped. The Chargers DL/LB's have lived in the backfield thus far.

[Devin]

Daunte Culpepper made Randy a better WR not the other way around. Also Chris Carter helped Randy as much as anybody.

:roflmao:

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

[Drive 4 Five]

Oh cry me a f**king river FTP. Are you seriously trying to get sympathy here for the way Bill's fans feel about your overrated QB and your stinking team?

Piss off you freakin' baby.

:cry:

[Mitchy moo]

FTP, I personally think that daunte has a long long day coming this weekend. He is going to see speed incarnate.

P.S. how often do you see incarnate in a sentence?

[jmb1099]

Oaklands line stinks??? I saw a few plays where Brooks was sacked and it was a coverage sack!!! I'm not frustrated at all. I just find it amusing how some people make excuses when it suits them like Bill fans that don't want Miami to have a dominant QB. I also find it hard to believe Randy is much more then Avg. He won't make the probolw this year...at least not for his stats and Brooks won't get much help from Randy because for all the kudos he gets, seldom if ever gives 100%. Daunte Culpepper made Randy a better WR not the other way around. Also Chris Carter helped Randy as much as anybody.
Holy cow! I'm sure you're watching the game, so you see the left side of the line getting owned right? You've heard the broadcast team talking about the line getting owned right?
Of course Bills fans don't want Miami to have a dominant QB and based upon what happened against week the jury is still out. But I will admit the fact if it ever becomes evident. Marino was a dominant qb for the Fins, Pep's story has yet to be written in a fin uniform.
Oh and another sack...raiders oline looks great...

[feelthepain]

Seriously lol.

While Culpeper sucks equally without Moss, Moss has Aaron Brooks at QB lol. Not to mention the QB starts with the ball every play, to my knowledge Moss has caught everything thats come his way so far tonight.

Whats Culpeper's excuse? Apart from being terrible.


I sure wish you'd show me JP's stats then have the nerve to laugh at anybody elses QB, oh but JP doesn't have to prove anything because he's a Bill!! You call Daunte Terrible, but you give Brady credit for being a great QB. Well Brady has never in his entire career had:

30 TD's in a season

Thrown for more then 4200 yrds

Had QB rating of more then 92.6

had less then 12 INT's

Had a compl% higher then 63.9

Not Only has never done any of the above he's never even come close to doing all that in one season, but Daunte has!!

2004 Daunte:

39 Td's-11 int's 4717 yrds 110.p QB rating 64.4 completion%

Obviously your opinion of Culpeper is said out of jealousy, because no intellegent fan would call a QB capable of putting up those kind of numbers "terrible"!! You seem confused, I don't see you calling JP terrible, but Daunte is, hmmm whats wrong with that picture??? I'd start with Bias and the biggest blind fold I've ever seen.

[Mitchy moo]

I sure wish you'd show me JP's stats then have the nerve to laugh at anybody elses QB, oh but JP doesn't have to prove anything because he's a Bill!! You call Daunte Terrible, but you give Brady credit for being a great QB. Well Brady has never in his entire career had:

30 TD's in a season

Thrown for more then 4200 yrds

Had QB rating of more then 92.6

had less then 12 INT's

Had a compl% higher then 63.9

Not Only has never done any of the above he's never even come close to doing all that in one season, but Daunte has!!

2004 Daunte:

39 Td's-11 int's 4717 yrds 110.p QB rating 64.4 completion%

Obviously your opinion of Culpeper is said out of jealousy, because no intellegent fan would call a QB capable of putting up those kind of numbers "terrible"!! You seem confused, I don't see you calling JP terrible, but Daunte is, hmmm whats wrong with that picture??? I'd start with Bias and the biggest blind fold I've ever seen.

Your comparing tom B with Daunte? :roflmao:

I'm no fan of Tom but this is too big a stretch.

[Devin]

I sure wish you'd show me JP's stats then have the nerve to laugh at anybody elses QB, oh but JP doesn't have to prove anything because he's a Bill!! You call Daunte Terrible, but you give Brady credit for being a great QB. Well Brady has never in his entire career had:

30 TD's in a season

Thrown for more then 4200 yrds

Had QB rating of more then 92.6

had less then 12 INT's

Had a compl% higher then 63.9

Not Only has never done any of the above he's never even come close to doing all that in one season, but Daunte has!!

2004 Daunte:

39 Td's-11 int's 4717 yrds 110.p QB rating 64.4 completion%

Obviously your opinion of Culpeper is said out of jealousy, because no intellegent fan would call a QB capable of putting up those kind of numbers "terrible"!! You seem confused, I don't see you calling JP terrible, but Daunte is, hmmm whats wrong with that picture??? I'd start with Bias and the biggest blind fold I've ever seen.

JP doesnt have to be an all-pro for Daunte to suck ass.

I never once have said JP is a great QB.

Brady has 3 superbowl rings. How many does Daunte have?

Brady is the definition of clutch. As much as I hate saying it. Daunte is clutch if you call 2 INT's in the bottom half of the 4th quarter clutch.

My opinion of Culpeper isn't biased, if I was a Cardinals fan or a Cowboys fan (gag) or even a Colts fan I could still see Daunte is playing horribly post-Moss. Thats just fact.

[feelthepain]

Oh and another sack...raiders oline looks great...

Yeah and another play by Moss taken back because he refuses to grow up!! He gets a big play then it comes back because he's bigger then the "team" typical Randy Moss. Same story different year!! If you notice the Corners are giving Randy 15 yards and Brooks has a player to throw to, but when the coverage tightens up, Randy disappears!

[jmb1099]

You're doing it again. Your point was about Daunte and you brought some solid stastics into the argument...good stragety. So to that I'll respond with a stastic that's hard to beat...three super bowl rings. Brady has them Culpepper doesn't. Brady has only lost one playoff game to date. I can't stand Brady but he is a great QB.
You mention Losman, in the first game this season Losman's play resulted in the same outcome as Culpeppers. Losman didn't throw any picks, but they both had a chance to win the game in the 4th qtr and couldn't get it done.
The original point to this thread was you trying to discredit Moss to elevate Daunte, not a solid foundation for an argument.
Finally, if you're really trying to prove a point to fans of an opposing divisional team on their fan board, you might be better received if you stopped tossing accusations around about simple bias and blinders. Just a thought.

QUOTE=feelthepain]I sure wish you'd show me JP's stats then have the nerve to laugh at anybody elses QB, oh but JP doesn't have to prove anything because he's a Bill!! You call Daunte Terrible, but you give Brady credit for being a great QB. Well Brady has never in his entire career had:

30 TD's in a season

Thrown for more then 4200 yrds

Had QB rating of more then 92.6

had less then 12 INT's

Had a compl% higher then 63.9

Not Only has never done any of the above he's never even come close to doing all that in one season, but Daunte has!!

2004 Daunte:

39 Td's-11 int's 4717 yrds 110.p QB rating 64.4 completion%

Obviously your opinion of Culpeper is said out of jealousy, because no intellegent fan would call a QB capable of putting up those kind of numbers "terrible"!! You seem confused, I don't see you calling JP terrible, but Daunte is, hmmm whats wrong with that picture??? I'd start with Bias and the biggest blind fold I've ever seen.[/QUOTE]

[Devin]

I sure wish you'd show me JP's stats then have the nerve to laugh at anybody elses QB, oh but JP doesn't have to prove anything because he's a Bill!! You call Daunte Terrible, but you give Brady credit for being a great QB. Well Brady has never in his entire career had:

30 TD's in a season

Thrown for more then 4200 yrds

Had QB rating of more then 92.6

had less then 12 INT's

Had a compl% higher then 63.9

Not Only has never done any of the above he's never even come close to doing all that in one season, but Daunte has!!

2004 Daunte:

39 Td's-11 int's 4717 yrds 110.p QB rating 64.4 completion%

Obviously your opinion of Culpeper is said out of jealousy, because no intellegent fan would call a QB capable of putting up those kind of numbers "terrible"!! You seem confused, I don't see you calling JP terrible, but Daunte is, hmmm whats wrong with that picture??? I'd start with Bias and the biggest blind fold I've ever seen.

You left off the most important stat fanboy.

Since 2005 Daunte has tossed 14 INT's in 8 games. With 253 attempts in 8 games "Pep" is averaging an INT every 18 attempts. His average QB rating since 2005 is 60.8.

Pre-knee explosion as you can see "Pep" was EN FUEGO!!

[jmb1099]

Yeah and another play by Moss taken back because he refuses to grow up!! He gets a big play then it comes back because he's bigger then the "team" typical Randy Moss. Same story different year!! If you notice the Corners are giving Randy 15 yards and Brooks has a player to throw to, but when the coverage tightens up, Randy disappears!
No argument about moss needing to grow up, but that was a call made because of his rep alone.
7 sacks going into the 4th qtr...so how's that line?

[feelthepain]

JP doesnt have to be an all-pro for Daunte to suck ass.

I never once have said JP is a great QB.

Brady has 3 superbowl rings. How many does Daunte have?

Brady is the definition of clutch. As much as I hate saying it. Daunte is clutch if you call 2 INT's clutch.

My opinion of Culpeper isn't biased, if I was a Cardinals fan or a Cowboys fan (gag) or even a Colts fan I could still see Daunte is playing horribly post-Moss.


How many Rings does Roger Craig have??? Or Emmit Smith or Willie Mcginest??? Why do you only ask me how many Rings Brady has as if he was the only player on the field, I just asked you the same question about other players that apperaed in the SB that aren't QB's, but they have just as many Rings as Brady, don't they???

Fact is Brady has three SB rings because he had a good kicker on his team and a good RB and a good WR and a good DT and a good TE and a good HC and a good DC....do you see the pattern here???? for Brady's position he's not done more for his team then Culpepper and their numbers prove my point. If you look at their numbers , at their indivdual positions Culpepper has done far more for his team the Brady has done for his team, but because this is a team sport, Brady benefits from that and Culpepper suffers from it.

Lets not play dumb simply because we don't want to give credit where it's due. You may not have called JP a great QB, but you sure as heck don't think he's terrible, and we both know JP will never put up the kind of numbers Culpepper has, if Brady can't get close to Culpepper there is no way on Gods green earth JP will. You obviously hate Culpepper and thats fine, but lets not make stupid statements, because we both know there isn't one football expert that will agree Daunte is terrible.

[tat2dmike77]

I sure wish you'd show me JP's stats then have the nerve to laugh at anybody elses QB, oh but JP doesn't have to prove anything because he's a Bill!! You call Daunte Terrible, but you give Brady credit for being a great QB. Well Brady has never in his entire career had:

30 TD's in a season

Thrown for more then 4200 yrds

Had QB rating of more then 92.6

had less then 12 INT's

Had a compl% higher then 63.9

Not Only has never done any of the above he's never even come close to doing all that in one season, but Daunte has!!

2004 Daunte:

39 Td's-11 int's 4717 yrds 110.p QB rating 64.4 completion%

Obviously your opinion of Culpeper is said out of jealousy, because no intellegent fan would call a QB capable of putting up those kind of numbers "terrible"!! You seem confused, I don't see you calling JP terrible, but Daunte is, hmmm whats wrong with that picture??? I'd start with Bias and the biggest blind fold I've ever seen.

Brady doesn't choke in the playoffs like cullpecker does.

[jmb1099]

How many Rings does Roger Craig have??? Or Emmit Smith or Willie Mcginest??? Why do you only ask me how many Rings Brady has as if he was the only player on the field, I just asked you the same question about other players that apperaed in the SB that aren't QB's, but they have just as many Rings as Brady, don't they???

Fact is Brady has three SB rings because he had a good kicker on his team and a good RB and a good WR and a good DT and a good TE and a good HC and a good DC....do you see the pattern here???? for Brady's position he's not done more for his team then Culpepper and their numbers prove my point. If you look at their numbers , at their indivdual positions Culpepper has done far more for his team the Brady has done for his team, but because this is a team sport, Brady benefits from that and Culpepper suffers from it.

Lets not play dumb simply because we don't want to give credit where it's due. You may not have called JP a great QB, but you sure as heck don't think he's terrible, and we both know JP will never put up the kind of numbers Culpepper has, if Brady can't get close to Culpepper there is no way on Gods green earth JP will. You obviously hate Culpepper and thats fine, but lets not make stupid statements, because we both know there isn't one football expert that will agree Daunte is terrible.
So just to clarify you're suggesting Culpepper is a better qb than Brady???

[Devin]

How many Rings does Roger Craig have??? Or Emmit Smith or Willie Mcginest??? Why do you only ask me how many Rings Brady has as if he was the only player on the field, I just asked you the same question about other players that apperaed in the SB that aren't QB's, but they have just as many Rings as Brady, don't they???

Fact is Brady has three SB rings because he had a good kicker on his team and a good RB and a good WR and a good DT and a good TE and a good HC and a good DC....do you see the pattern here???? for Brady's position he's not done more for his team then Culpepper and their numbers prove my point. If you look at their numbers , at their indivdual positions Culpepper has done far more for his team the Brady has done for his team, but because this is a team sport, Brady benefits from that and Culpepper suffers from it.

Lets not play dumb simply because we don't want to give credit where it's due. You may not have called JP a great QB, but you sure as heck don't think he's terrible, and we both know JP will never put up the kind of numbers Culpepper has, if Brady can't get close to Culpepper there is no way on Gods green earth JP will. You obviously hate Culpepper and thats fine, but lets not make stupid statements, because we both know there isn't one football expert that will agree Daunte is terrible.

LOL. You're really reaching. Brady tossed 4100 yards last year and 25+ TD's. If Brady had Moss, Moss would have had a 2000 yard season. Of course Brady didnt win the Superbowl on his own. Could the Pats have won it without him? No.

To compare Culpeper to Brady is simply laughable. Not even remotley close to the same class. Brady can win with almost anyone on the field. Obviously not the same for Daunte.

I'll toss you a little bone though, yes on paper Daunte has thrown for more yards and TD's then Brady some years. So uhhh yeah I guess hes better and stuff.

While I am not sure why or how JP came into this, whats your point?

And lastly sure most experts wont say hes terrible. Ask most experts who they would rather have leading their team? Statboy or Mr. Superbowl.

Case closed.

[Mitchy moo]

Case was never open Devin.

[feelthepain]

You left off the most important stat fanboy.

Since 2005 Daunte has tossed 14 INT's in 8 games. With 253 attempts in 8 games "Pep" is averaging an INT every 18 attempts. His average QB rating since 2005 is 60.8.

Pre-knee explosion as you can see "Pep" was EN FUEGO!!


Yeah and since that time there has been a huge change in not only his routine, but personell. It will take him some time to work back into a regular routine with a familiar system and players. When Culpepers numbers diped, he had a massive change to just about everyhting he was use to doing, that would effect any plyer much less a QB thats run the same system his whole career, funny how how you can't say the same for Brady, as a result the stubility hasn't changed since he's been with the Pats and it shows. I love how your facts only include the facts that support what you want to believe, because if you looked at the whole picture rather the just the corner of the picture your theroy woul be mush, nice try though.

[JJamezz]

Fact is Brady has three SB rings because he had a good kicker on his team and a good RB and a good WR and a good DT and a good TE and a good HC and a good DC....do you see the pattern here????

Yeah, the pattern is you're just in here to rile people up (not working btw, unless you count yourself...) because you COULD NOT POSSIBLY HAVE WRITTEN THAT SENTENCE ... OMG... :coocoo:

I often wonder why Fin fans even frequent a Bills board, but to each his own I guess.. but dude, honestly, what is up with your need to be validated by other people, particularly fans of your teams arch rival?!?!?! Are you ok??? You're coming off as a bit of a nut!

[tat2dmike77]

How many Rings does Roger Craig have??? Or Emmit Smith or Willie Mcginest??? Why do you only ask me how many Rings Brady has as if he was the only player on the field, I just asked you the same question about other players that apperaed in the SB that aren't QB's, but they have just as many Rings as Brady, don't they???

Fact is Brady has three SB rings because he had a good kicker on his team and a good RB and a good WR and a good DT and a good TE and a good HC and a good DC....do you see the pattern here???? for Brady's position he's not done more for his team then Culpepper and their numbers prove my point. If you look at their numbers , at their indivdual positions Culpepper has done far more for his team the Brady has done for his team, but because this is a team sport, Brady benefits from that and Culpepper suffers from it.

Lets not play dumb simply because we don't want to give credit where it's due. You may not have called JP a great QB, but you sure as heck don't think he's terrible, and we both know JP will never put up the kind of numbers Culpepper has, if Brady can't get close to Culpepper there is no way on Gods green earth JP will. You obviously hate Culpepper and thats fine, but lets not make stupid statements, because we both know there isn't one football expert that will agree Daunte is terrible.

You bring up team game and all that. Saying culpecker has not had great team success.

Yet i seem to remember the vikes going 14-2 in 98only to loose in the NFC title game to the falcons. They were a great team then

Your just reaching and why do you even care. I sense some urgency from miami fans. Are you scared of JP already you should be. Atleast JP kept his team in the game in the 4th quarter all pecker did was throw 2 picks

[Devin]

Yeah and since that time there has been a huge change in not only his routine, but personell. It will take him some time to work back into a regular routine with a familiar system and players. When Culpepers numbers diped, he had a massive change to just about everyhting he was use to doing, that would effect any plyer much less a QB thats run the same system his whole career, funny how how you can't say the same for Brady, as a result the stubility hasn't changed since he's been with the Pats and it shows. I love how your facts only include the facts that support what you want to believe, because if you looked at the whole picture rather the just the corner of the picture your theroy woul be mush, nice try though.

:rofl: righhhhht.

So what your saying is...

Daunte = lots of yards/touchdowns....no superbowl....

Daunte = suck now, but not his fault...changes/etc

Brady = Less stats......tons of rings/hardware.

Brady = Stability which = winning.

sooooo that means: Daunte > Brady

that close?

[jmb1099]

FTP its like you're two different people. You'd be better served to let this thread go, you're the only one here or any other board that thinks Culpep is better than Brady. The more you try to rationalize and justify the worse it looks.

[Devin]

Amen. Talk about futile.

[feelthepain]

LOL. You're really reaching. Brady tossed 4100 yards last year and 25+ TD's. If Brady had Moss, Moss would have had a 2000 yard season. Of course Brady didnt win the Superbowl on his own. Could the Pats have won it without him? No.

To compare Culpeper to Brady is simply laughable. Not even remotley close to the same class. Brady can win with almost anyone on the field. Obviously not the same for Daunte.

I'll toss you a little bone though, yes on paper Daunte has thrown for more yards and TD's then Brady some years. So uhhh yeah I guess hes better and stuff.

While I am not sure why or how JP came into this, whats your point?

And lastly sure most experts wont say hes terrible. Ask most experts who they would rather have leading their team? Statboy or Mr. Superbowl.

Case closed.

Yeah and ask any expert who theyd rather have Elway or Marino and they'd pick Elway because he has two rings, so whats your point??? Marino smokes Elway in nearly every category a QB can have, but Elway has two rings, that he couldn't seem to secure till he had a SB defense and a SB running game, so agin whats your point just because a QB wins a SB he's the only reason??

Dude you're the one who's laughable. It's a fact it's the team that wins SB's not the QB not the WR not the RB not the Defense, but all the above. Once again you only bring up facts the support what it is you want to believe while leaving out crucial information that is just as important to your opinion and if added properly to the big picture blows wholes in your theory!

I could convince you Joan Rivers is a diva, if I left out the fact that she's 70 years old, and had tweleve face lifts and weitghts 90 lbs and has an annoying voice, and is just plain ugly. But you put those facts back into the equation and all of a sudden she's no longer a diva. I apply this same theory to the way you choose to evaluate certain players. Ignore important factors to paint a picture that you can live with, well hello Mcfly...thats not the real world is it?? Seems to me you base an opinion of Dauntes ability that best helps you sleep at night. I know one thing, you're exposed.

[feelthepain]

FTP its like you're two different people. You'd be better served to let this thread go, you're the only one here or any other board that thinks Culpep is better than Brady. The more you try to rationalize and justify the worse it looks.

I sure would like you to show me where I said Culpepper is better then Brady!!!

[feelthepain]

You bring up team game and all that. Saying culpecker has not had great team success.

Yet i seem to remember the vikes going 14-2 in 98only to loose in the NFC title game to the falcons. They were a great team then

Your just reaching and why do you even care. I sense some urgency from miami fans. Are you scared of JP already you should be. Atleast JP kept his team in the game in the 4th quarter all pecker did was throw 2 picks

That was with Randle Cunningham not Daunte Culpepper and it was also with Denny Green not Mike Tice.

[tat2dmike77]

I could convince you Joan Rivers is a diva, if I left out the fact that she's 70 years old, and had tweleve face lifts and weitghts 90 lbs and has an annoying voice, and is just plain ugly. .

You forgot has a no talent daughter, the only job she can get is on the TV Guide channel, has not had any talent for about 20 years, and you are wrong about the face lifts she has had 120 of those. Personally i think she is a alien

[Devin]

Yeah and ask any expert who theyd rather have Elway or Marino and they'd pick Elway because he has two rings, so whats your point??? Marino smokes Elway in nearly every category a QB can have, but Elway has two rings, that he couldn't seem to secure till he had a SB defense and a SB running game, so agin whats your point just because a QB wins a SB he's the only reason??


No, they dont pick him because of the rings, the pick him because hes a better QB. Thats the center of this little crusade of yours. Brady has what Daunte doesnt. Hes smarter, a better leader, a better feel for the game, and most importantly he doesnt get flustered. When he is in the ballgame the Patriots are always in it.

An expert would pick Brady not because of his rings, but because hes the better QB. Plain and simple.



Dude you're the one who's laughable. It's a fact it's the team that wins SB's not the QB not the WR not the RB not the Defense, but all the above. Once again you only bring up facts the support what it is you want to believe while leaving out crucial information that is just as important to your opinion and if added properly to the big picture blows wholes in your theory!


This is true it takes a team. Original point stands, they couldnt have won without Brady. Culpeper has been unable to do it. Brady > Daunte.



I could convince you Joan Rivers is a diva, if I left out the fact that she's 70 years old, and had tweleve face lifts and weitghts 90 lbs and has an annoying voice, and is just plain ugly. But you put those facts back into the equation and all of a sudden she's no longer a diva.


No you couldnt.



I apply this same theory to the way you choose to evaluate certain players. Ignore important factors to paint a picture that you can live with, well hello Mcfly...thats not the real world is it?? Seems to me you base an opinion of Dauntes ability that best helps you sleep at night. I know one thing, you're exposed.

I don't ignore anything. Yes you're right Culpepper has perhaps in certain years produced more stat wise. So what? Hes in the same place (and will continue to be) every off-season. The couch. Watching Brady play.

I encourage you to keep reaching, bless your little heart. Daunte will eek you out some wins this year. Heck maybe he throws for 4000 yards again, you know.....enough to give you hope. Then you can brag next year to.

[jmb1099]

I sure would like you to show me where I said Culpepper is better then Brady!!!
What??? Are you serious? The whole basis of your argument on why Daunte is a great Qb was to highlight his numbers against Brady's. Your argument was that Daunte's numbers are beter than Brady's so therefore he's a great qb. See this is what I mean with you. You really are like two different people. I'm just going to chalk this whole thread up to you being frustrated and in the mood to fight. You should have picked a better argument.
Oh and if you don't maen to imply Culpepper is better than Brady, you may want to stop trying to prove it so badly.

[Devin]

He just needs to have the last word is all. He knows hes been soundly rebutted.

[feelthepain]

No, they dont pick him because of the rings, the pick him because hes a better QB. Thats the center of this little crusade of yours. Brady has what Daunte doesnt. Hes smarter, a better leader, a better feel for the game, and most importantly he doesnt get flustered. When he is in the ballgame the Patriots are always in it.

An expert would pick Brady not because of his rings, but because hes the better QB. Plain and simple.



This is true it takes a team. Original point stands, they couldnt have won without Brady. Culpeper has been unable to do it. Brady > Daunte.



No you couldnt.



I don't ignore anything. Yes you're right Culpepper has perhaps in certain years produced more stat wise. So what? Hes in the same place (and will continue to be) every off-season. The couch. Watching Brady play.

I encourage you to keep reaching, bless your little heart. Daunte will eek you out some wins this year. Heck maybe he throws for 4000 yards again, you know.....enough to give you hope. Then you can brag next year to.

Uh huh, I guess you know that Bradys "team and HC" was far better then anything Culpeppers had, but you don't care about that fact because.....,oh yeah, it doesn't support your theory. Got it.

You know whats funny though, you seem to think JP is playing better now that MM is gone!! Funny how that works when it suits what you want to believe. Glad to see you can believe it was the play calling that was JP's problem, but when it's Culpepper it's all him. I see where you're coming from.

[feelthepain]

He just needs to have the last word is all. He knows hes been soundly rebutted.

Sorry, but you're clearly bias and everything you say only supports what it is you want to believe, not the facts.

[jmb1099]

He just needs to have the last word is all. He knows hes been soundly rebutted.
he can have it. I have to go fight with my wife about why I was up watching two football games tonight...should be fun

[Devin]

Uh huh, I guess you know that Bradys "team and HC" was far better then anything Culpeppers had, but you don't care about that fact because.....,oh yeah, it doesn't support your theory. Got it.

You know whats funny though, you seem to think JP is playing better now that MM is gone!! Funny how that works when it suits what you want to believe. Glad to see you can believe it was the play calling that was JP's problem, but when it's Culpepper it's all him. I see where you're coming from.

As I stated earlier if Brady was on the Fins this season they would be 1-0 right now. Regardless of whether he has had better coaches/teams, Brady is the better Qb. Hes a proven winner, each year when his team/coaches change they are still contenders.

JP is playing better now, while MM gone helps alot of it is simply maturing. Is he a pro-bowler....no. Will he be anytime soon.....my gut says no. Do I think he can be a solid NFL QB....absolutley. Again not sure why hes in this debate but whatever.

BTW are you now admitting MM is a problem? Or is that simply another "out" just in case?

[jmb1099]

Uh huh, I guess you know that Bradys "team and HC" was far better then anything Culpeppers had, but you don't care about that fact because.....,oh yeah, it doesn't support your theory. Got it.

You know whats funny though, you seem to think JP is playing better now that MM is gone!! Funny how that works when it suits what you want to believe. Glad to see you can believe it was the play calling that was JP's problem, but when it's Culpepper it's all him. I see where you're coming from.
What in the world are you talking about??? Get to the point, I have a more imporant argument to end to

Jp played better in one game so as far as I'm concerned the jury is still out. But what does any of that have to do with Daunte being a good QB? Classic re-route and divert. Have you ever considerd that maybe Moss and Culpepper had good chemistry between them and maybe made each other look better than they do otherwise? Truth is you don't know what you got yet because both Culpepper's showed up in your opener, so the jury is still out. Why are you so desperate to argue about Culpepper here?

[Devin]

Sorry, but you're clearly bias and everything you say only supports what it is you want to believe, not the facts.

:rofl: clearly!!!

[feelthepain]

What??? Are you serious? The whole basis of your argument on why Daunte is a great Qb was to highlight his numbers against Brady's. Your argument was that Daunte's numbers are beter than Brady's so therefore he's a great qb. See this is what I mean with you. You really are like two different people. I'm just going to chalk this whole thread up to you being frustrated and in the mood to fight. You should have picked a better argument.
Oh and if you don't maen to imply Culpepper is better than Brady, you may want to stop trying to prove it so badly.


You are correct in part, but nowhere did I say or write Culpepper was better then Brady. The reason for comparing the numbers to Brady was to show that you show Tom Brady respect as a QB, but as a "QB" hasn't produced as good of numbers as Culpepper, thats a fact. There are the intagables which wasn't part of the conversation. My point to this whole thread is Culpepper didn't succeed in Minn. Because Of Moss it was the other way around. You need to read the words that I write.

[feelthepain]

What in the world are you talking about??? Get to the point, I have a more imporant argument to end to

Jp played better in one game so as far as I'm concerned the jury is still out. But what does any of that have to do with Daunte being a good QB? Classic re-route and divert. Have you ever considerd that maybe Moss and Culpepper had good chemistry between them and maybe made each other look better than they do otherwise? Truth is you don't know what you got yet because both Culpepper's showed up in your opener, so the jury is still out. Why are you so desperate to argue about Culpepper here?

Ok just stop!! All preseason it's been JP is better at this and JP is better at that, yes it's only been one regular season game, but I was here and listening to the Bill fans..."wow, what a difference, the playcalling is so much better, It's good to see" You act as if no Bill fan made a comment all year about how all the Bills problems were all MM, give me a break!!

Obviously you didn't read my first post nor do you get the point to this thread. One of the popular arguments all summer from Bill fans over Culpeppers ability revolved around Moss. Well Moss hasn't done squat since he's been a Raider, but thats a little fact that get's lost in the desperation to dicount anyhting the Fins do, so you watch Moss tonight, again nothing special, yet it doesn't matter, why?? Becuse Moss doesn't play for the Fins,but Culpepper does!! If you wish to take offense to everything I write, thats up to you, but this is a football site and this is a football conversation, if it's not to your liking, sorry. But I just thought I would come here and look for a little intelligent response as to why Bill fans can make a claim that everything Culpepper did was was do to Moss, but they don't have to validate the opinion and when pressed into it, instead they get offended!!

[Devin]

You are correct in part, but nowhere did I say or write Culpepper was better then Brady. The reason for comparing the numbers to Brady was to show that you show Tom Brady respect as a QB, but as a "QB" hasn't produced as good of numbers as Culpepper, thats a fact. There are the intagables which wasn't part of the conversation. My point to this whole thread is Culpepper didn't succeed in Minn. Because Of Moss it was the other way around. You need to read the words that I write.

Tell ya what if Chambers has 1500 Yards this year recieving then Ill admit you right. It was all Daunte not Moss.

Thats fair right?

[jmb1099]

You are correct in part, but nowhere did I say or write Culpepper was better then Brady. The reason for comparing the numbers to Brady was to show that you show Tom Brady respect as a QB, but as a "QB" hasn't produced as good of numbers as Culpepper, thats a fact. There are the intagables which wasn't part of the conversation. My point to this whole thread is Culpepper didn't succeed in Minn. Because Of Moss it was the other way around. You need to read the words that I write.
No offense, but we both know that your argument at the very least was to try to elevate Culpepper first with Moss and then with Brady. I read what you wrote very carefully and if you only wanted to demonstrate that Culpeppers numbers were better than Brady's you wouldn't have thrown in that Brady has been the product of a better system and that Culpepper, if given the same opportunities, would have accomplished as much and more. Now did you directly say these things? No. Did you imply them? In just about every thread you mention Brady's name. You're stuck in an argument that you can't find the way out of. I don't think Daunte sucks, he just hasn't shown that he can still play consistent football yet, maybe he will, maybe not. But this thread is getting silly now.

[jmb1099]

Ok just stop!! All preseason it's been JP is better at this and JP is better at that, yes it's only been one regular season game, but I was here and listening to the Bill fans..."wow, what a difference, the playcalling is so much better, It's good to see" You act as if no Bill fan made a comment all year about how all the Bills problems were all MM, give me a break!!
OMG what are you talking about? First this thread wasn't supposed to be about Losman, of course you would know this because you started the thing. Second, Losman has improved with every game, but again that's not the point, just an attempt to redirect...its classic debate tactic. So let me spell it out...Losman has nothing to do with Culpeppers performance. Ok so now we're at the systems part of this: Last year MM made very poor choices in many departments, its documented and no I'm not searching for you. The fins brought him on board and maybe with Saban's guidance he can be a decent OC. MM can and will directly effect Culpeppers performance, just the nature of how it works, in fact it is you're argument that had Daunte had a better system he would have been a better QB, so it stands to reason that still applies and at both ends of the spectrum. Now, what does any of this have to do with Daunte's past numbers? Nothing, MM had no effect on Daunte's efforts in the past. Again, you bring up MM as a redirect. So back to the point which was you trying to say that Culpepper made Moss look better than Moss made Culpepper look. I say they had a chemistry with each other that made them both look better when together. That is the original topic right, or do you now want to argue about something else?

[jmb1099]

Ok just stop!! All preseason it's been JP is better at this and JP is better at that, yes it's only been one regular season game, but I was here and listening to the Bill fans..."wow, what a difference, the playcalling is so much better, It's good to see" You act as if no Bill fan made a comment all year about how all the Bills problems were all MM, give me a break!!

Obviously you didn't read my first post nor do you get the point to this thread. One of the popular arguments all summer from Bill fans over Culpeppers ability revolved around Moss. Well Moss hasn't done squat since he's been a Raider, but thats a little fact that get's lost in the desperation to dicount anyhting the Fins do, so you watch Moss tonight, again nothing special, yet it doesn't matter, why?? Becuse Moss doesn't play for the Fins,but Culpepper does!! If you wish to take offense to everything I write, thats up to you, but this is a football site and this is a football conversation, if it's not to your liking, sorry. But I just thought I would come here and look for a little intelligent response as to why Bill fans can make a claim that everything Culpepper did was was do to Moss, but they don't have to validate the opinion and when pressed into it, instead they get offended!!
You always revert back into saying this when your cornered. I can't speak for anyone else, but I read your initial post, I was watching the game when I did, responded because I thought the post was worth discussing, and haven't been offended. Now back to the point,
Moss didn't look special and neither did Culpepper the other night.

[feelthepain]

As I stated earlier if Brady was on the Fins this season they would be 1-0 right now. Regardless of whether he has had better coaches/teams, Brady is the better Qb. Hes a proven winner, each year when his team/coaches change they are still contenders.

JP is playing better now, while MM gone helps alot of it is simply maturing. Is he a pro-bowler....no. Will he be anytime soon.....my gut says no. Do I think he can be a solid NFL QB....absolutley. Again not sure why hes in this debate but whatever.

BTW are you now admitting MM is a problem? Or is that simply another "out" just in case?

The reason I bring up JP is to show that you find a reason to look at the whole picture when it's your QB thats got to produce, then you can say things like, it MM or it's Bennie Anderson, in other words JP has excuses for not performing. But when it's Culpepper there is not Oline to blame and there isn't an OC to blame, nope it's all Culpepper, even theough his stats prove he did his part to help his team, infact if it hadn't been for Culpepper putting up MVP numbers in 04, the 8-8 Min. Vikings never would have made to the playoffs agains the Falcons, who they lost too, but that was Dauntes fault too right??

As for MM, we had good play calling just poor execution, thats understanable though because a lot of what the O does relies on timing and it's just too early to expect that part of the game to be perfect. Ronnie only had 30 yards rushing, but in the redzone he had two TD's because MM's playcalling fooled the Steelers and we were able to capitilize on that. I'm not sure you even watched the game, or is this another one of your deliberate attempts to wear a blindfold???

[feelthepain]

You always revert back into saying this when your cornered. I can't speak for anyone else, but I read your initial post, I was watching the game when I did, responded because I thought the post was worth discussing, and haven't been offended. Now back to the point,
Moss didn't look special and neither did Culpepper the other night.

OK this is a start, no neither did look special, but Culpepper had his team in position to win with 6 minutes to go. Randy didn't do anything to help his team. Besides the Fact that Culpepper has far more to learn and far more resposinbility and is coming off major knee surgery. I'd say Randys Job was quite a bit eaiser tonight. The Chargers aren't know for having the toughest secondary in the league and Culpepper was going up against probably a top 3 defense in their home on SB ring night, I'd say the task at had was decidedly tougher for Culpepper.

[jmb1099]

OK this is a start, no neither did look special, but Culpepper had his team in position to win with 6 minutes to go. Randy didn't do anything to help his team. Besides the Fact that Culpepper has far more to learn and far more resposinbility and is coming off major knee surgery. I'd say Randys Job was quite a bit eaiser tonight. The Chargers aren't know for having the toughest secondary in the league and Culpepper was going up against probably a top 3 defense in their home on SB ring night, I'd say the task at had was decidedly tougher for Culpepper.
The chargers had something close to 10 sacks. I'm not questioning Culpepper's need to learn more or his toughness from recovering fromt knee surgery. Randy did nothing to help his team but Brooks completed less passes than he was sacked so its not like the ball was even leaving his hands very often.
Culpepper did lead his team into a position to where they could win it, but than cost them the game by throwing the back to back pics.
Now here is where I'm going to toss Culpepper a bone, but probably cause you to get defensive...
Some of this is MM fault, not the pics, but the overall playcalling. Ronnie Brown in the second half of that game was ready to break loose. He had worn down the steelers and they were starting to miss forst tackles/hits etc. They should have been given a strong dose of Ronnie Brown instead of trick plays etc. Fins win if MM continues to wear out the D. Instead they get the pic, find new life and lose the game.
Poor ececution on the part of Culpepper (and timing may have been the culprit), poor playcalling on the part of MM

[feelthepain]

The chargers had something close to 10 sacks. I'm not questioning Culpepper's need to learn more or his toughness from recovering fromt knee surgery. Randy did nothing to help his team but Brooks completed less passes than he was sacked so its not like the ball was even leaving his hands very often.
Culpepper did lead his team into a position to where they could win it, but than cost them the game by throwing the back to back pics.
Now here is where I'm going to toss Culpepper a bone, but probably cause you to get defensive...
Some of this is MM fault, not the pics, but the overall playcalling. Ronnie Brown in the second half of that game was ready to break loose. He had worn down the steelers and they were starting to miss forst tackles/hits etc. They should have been given a strong dose of Ronnie Brown instead of trick plays etc. Fins win if MM continues to wear out the D. Instead they get the pic, find new life and lose the game.
Poor ececution on the part of Culpepper (and timing may have been the culprit), poor playcalling on the part of MM


No I wouldn't get ofended, I would just disagree with you, as I am about to do. Now I know for a fact or at least have a strong suspicision you didn't record the Steeler/Dolphins game. I did, I've watched probably four times. Sorry to say Ronnie didn't wear anybody down. Maybe had the Fins run the ball more they might have had a little more success, I happen to think Daunte needs to work on the timing with the WR's and to get comfrotable with his knee.

If you noticed in the game quite a few of Daunte's pass fell woefully short of there tragets, IMO because Dauntes legs aren't where they should be. I think all along the game plan was to throw the ball a lot more then run it, because we were well over the 50/50 run/pass that Saban likes in his O. No matter what you think of MM Saban will have things his way. Also Willis Mcgahee didn't rush for over 1200 yards last year because MM threw the ball more then he ran the ball. MM like to run the ball as much as Saban does. Again proof I think the game plan was to throw and trow a lot. Daunte looked good for the majority of the game he was able to feel the pressue when it was there and he was mobil and able to avoid the sack for the most part, he ever ran a couple of times.

At times this O looked scary, very potent!! Ronnie looks very fit and ready to be the full time back. Miami is in position to take that next step, it will just take some time for everything to click. I exoect the Fins to win on Sunday against the Bills. I think it will be a good game that the dolphins could win by as much as 10 points. Do I think the Bills have a chance to win??, sure it's football and on any given Sunday!!! But Miami will not lose at home in their home opener, IMO.

[jmb1099]

Well at least the topic is somewaht back on track.
I did actually record the game, though I haven't watched it four times. Browns second td drive, towards the end of the drive, watch the pits d...missing tackles, making hits, but brown busting through for an additional 2-3 yards. That is a sign of a defens that is tiring.
Look, I understand team loyalty, I really do, so I know you're in a position to defend Mularkey now, I can appreciate that. I also think that MM will do, for the most part what saban tells him to do. But it is my opinion that MM could have made adjustments and pounded the ball with Brown, in my opinion the D was ripe for a big play to break loose.
As far as the Bills Fins game is concerned here's to hoping there aren't any injuries to either team. I hope we win, but will be very difficult in the Fin home opener. Still I'm going to say Bills by 3. If nothing else we will have new material to fight about in a few days. Good night, wife is going to kill me.

[feelthepain]

Well at least the topic is somewaht back on track.
I did actually record the game, though I haven't watched it four times. Browns second td drive, towards the end of the drive, watch the pits d...missing tackles, making hits, but brown busting through for an additional 2-3 yards. That is a sign of a defens that is tiring.
Look, I understand team loyalty, I really do, so I know you're in a position to defend Mularkey now, I can appreciate that. I also think that MM will do, for the most part what saban tells him to do. But it is my opinion that MM could have made adjustments and pounded the ball with Brown, in my opinion the D was ripe for a big play to break loose.
As far as the Bills Fins game is concerned here's to hoping there aren't any injuries to either team. I hope we win, but will be very difficult in the Fin home opener. Still I'm going to say Bills by 3. If nothing else we will have new material to fight about in a few days. Good night, wife is going to kill me.


Well, just to add a little, to your post. I thnink what you were seeing in the extra few yards on Ronnies runs was his frustration that he wasn't getting any blocking to speak of. I think he was getting angry at the fact that it makes him look bad. When in reality you can't run if there isn't some kind of whole to run through, so Ronnie started to take it uppon himself to make some wholes where none exsited. That's my take on the situation.

Anyway's this whole thread was about Daunte and the misconception that without Moss Daunte isn't much. Thats laughable, I started this thread on this site because a lot of the Bill fans here are to this day convinced of such nonesense. Time will tell ofcourse, but it won't be for the better if you're a Bill fans. Sunday should be fun and it should get inersting around here. It's just a shame that when Bill fans here want to talk trash about the fins that's all fine and dandy, but whens it's there turn to get back what they give all of a sudden it's not so much fun and some people get ban. Even though this is a Bill site, if you're not able to take back what you dish out then it speaks voulumes about your maturity level, (not calling anyone in particular out, just stating a fact).

As far as your wifes concerned....I had one once....once!!! I do have a girlfriend though and she gives me grief just the same. chat with ya soon.

[feelthepain]

Tell ya what if Chambers has 1500 Yards this year recieving then Ill admit you right. It was all Daunte not Moss.

Thats fair right?


I think if Chambers has 1200 yards this year the you can say I was right, because I don't think what Chambers does after the catch has anything to do with Culpeppers ability. You can also admit MM wasn't the Bills problem.

[tat2dmike77]

:ill: this thread is still alive?

Why?

[jmb1099]

Well, just to add a little, to your post. I thnink what you were seeing in the extra few yards on Ronnies runs was his frustration that he wasn't getting any blocking to speak of. I think he was getting angry at the fact that it makes him look bad. When in reality you can't run if there isn't some kind of whole to run through, so Ronnie started to take it uppon himself to make some wholes where none exsited. That's my take on the situation.

Anyway's this whole thread was about Daunte and the misconception that without Moss Daunte isn't much. Thats laughable, I started this thread on this site because a lot of the Bill fans here are to this day convinced of such nonesense. Time will tell ofcourse, but it won't be for the better if you're a Bill fans. Sunday should be fun and it should get inersting around here. It's just a shame that when Bill fans here want to talk trash about the fins that's all fine and dandy, but whens it's there turn to get back what they give all of a sudden it's not so much fun and some people get ban. Even though this is a Bill site, if you're not able to take back what you dish out then it speaks voulumes about your maturity level, (not calling anyone in particular out, just stating a fact).

As far as your wifes concerned....I had one once....once!!! I do have a girlfriend though and she gives me grief just the same. chat with ya soon.
Brown...Could be, regardless he started getting it done and that would have spelled trouble for Pits D, it alredy was with Brown going in for 2 td. MM had an opportunity for a third but called 3 pass plays within the 10 yrd line. Run the ball 3 times and TD.

Regarding Culpepper time will tell indeed. Was his success due to Moss? Was Moss successful because of Daunte? Well I'll say this...Daunte has much more to work with on the Fins than Moss does on the Raiders. If he can't put up decent numbers with Chambers, McMichael, etc than there is a problem (and it may not be all him).

As far as Bias is concerned: Its a Bills site during the regular season...Team loyalty is very high right now so you can expect to find it, especially being a fan of a division rival who by your own testimony "likes to smack the jillies around a bit". So don't be too suprised when you find it returned.

Again here's to an injury free game on Sunday.

[HAMMER]

Oaklands line stinks??? I saw a few plays where Brooks was sacked and it was a coverage sack!!! I'm not frustrated at all. I just find it amusing how some people make excuses when it suits them like Bill fans that don't want Miami to have a dominant QB. I also find it hard to believe Randy is much more then Avg. He won't make the probolw this year...at least not for his stats and Brooks won't get much help from Randy because for all the kudos he gets, seldom if ever gives 100%. Daunte Culpepper made Randy a better WR not the other way around. Also Chris Carter helped Randy as much as anybody.

Uhhhhh, 9 sacks? Argument is over, you just lost what little credibility you may have had. Yes Oaklands line sucks, San Diego's front seven made them look like they were playing with cement shoes. Please go away now. Oh, good luck this week.

[HAMMER]

How many Rings does Roger Craig have??? Or Emmit Smith or Willie Mcginest??? Why do you only ask me how many Rings Brady has as if he was the only player on the field, I just asked you the same question about other players that apperaed in the SB that aren't QB's, but they have just as many Rings as Brady, don't they???

Fact is Brady has three SB rings because he had a good kicker on his team and a good RB and a good WR and a good DT and a good TE and a good HC and a good DC....do you see the pattern here???? for Brady's position he's not done more for his team then Culpepper and their numbers prove my point. If you look at their numbers , at their indivdual positions Culpepper has done far more for his team the Brady has done for his team, but because this is a team sport, Brady benefits from that and Culpepper suffers from it.

Lets not play dumb simply because we don't want to give credit where it's due. You may not have called JP a great QB, but you sure as heck don't think he's terrible, and we both know JP will never put up the kind of numbers Culpepper has, if Brady can't get close to Culpepper there is no way on Gods green earth JP will. You obviously hate Culpepper and thats fine, but lets not make stupid statements, because we both know there isn't one football expert that will agree Daunte is terrible.

Maybe they aren't calling him terrible but he sure needs work, see attached link, someone agrees with us to an extent.

http://nfl.com/news/story/9653133