Levy Screws the Pooch on Vincent

[DynaPaul]

From profootballtalk.com, yeah I know most of you guys don't like their site. Personally, though they are technically right on this but I think Vincent is just going to retire and not sign with someone else. So I disagree with what they're building up to.

LEVY SCREWED THE POOCH ON VINCENT

We've gotten some more information regarding the manner in which Bills safety Troy Vincent landed on IR. And the manner in which the situation was handled by the team convinces us that G.M. Marv Levy has little or no skill when it comes to the complexities of managing an NFL roster.

For starters, it turns out that there really is a "minor" Injured Reserve. It's a procedure used in lieu of an injury settlement, pursuant to which the player is added to IR but must be released when healthy.

When a player is on "major" IR, he's done for the year and gets paid his normal salary.

But in Vincent's case, the end result is the same -- the Bills will owe him his entire salary for 2006. Why? Because Vincent is a vested veteran entitled to take the balance of his $2.6 million salary as termination pay.

And once he's healthy, Vincent can sign with another team and receive wages on top of the $2.6 million base salary he'll get from the Bills.

In hindsight (or if Levy had applied any foresight), the Bills would have released Vincent prior to the start of the regular season. He then could have been re-signed after the first game, and his full salary would not have been guaranteed.

So while Levy might have been a very good coach, running the team is a much different endeavor. In this specific case, Levy's failure to understand the rules has forced his boss to pay $2.6 million to a guy who was available for only one game.

Meanwhile, we're hearing that the injury really isn't very significant, and that Vincent could be healthy soon. So when he's healthy (and then released), Vincent will be able to sign with any other team in the league.

Technically, Vincent would have to clear waivers if he's released after the trading deadline. But it's unlikely that anyone else would claim his contract when he can be signed the next day for a lower contract.

So look for Vincent to be playing for another team at some point this year, even though he'll be receiving the bulk of his compensation from the Buffalo Bills.

[L.A. Playa]

thats all good what they are saying in theory, but remember Vincent is the head of the NFLPA and it was wise to not to try to jerk the guy around

[Meathead]

plus hasnt he said point blank he plans on staying here?

[Dr. Lecter]

Technically this is wrong.

Vincent does NOT have to clear waivers, since he is a vested veteran.

[Historian]

In hindsight (or if Levy had applied any foresight), the Bills would have released Vincent prior to the start of the regular season. He then could have been re-signed after the first game, and his full salary would not have been guaranteed.



What a great idea!

Let's just cut everybody who's healthy, on the chance that they might get injured.

:rolleyes:

[Gunzlingr]

He has said he would stay and help the young guys out.

[Devin]

:yawn:

Marv Levy is a NFL GM with people around him (Modrak and Co.) who are all well aware of how the NFL and GM duties work. Whatever they did they did for a reason, and while im sure the great football minds at profootball talk.com may think they know better, I assure you they dont.

[YardRat]

:yawn:

Marv Levy is a NFL GM with people around him (Modrak and Co.) who are all well aware of how the NFL and GM duties work. Whatever they did they did for a reason, and while im sure the great football minds at profootball talk.com may think they know better, I assure you they dont.

:clap:

[Stewie]

Until a fewmonths ago, the dude who owns that site had just as much experience running an NFL team as Marv Levy did.

[Michael82]

Pro Football Talk.....the world's worst web site! :ill:

[X-Era]

From profootballtalk.com, yeah I know most of you guys don't like their site. Personally, though they are technically right on this but I think Vincent is just going to retire and not sign with someone else. So I disagree with what they're building up to.

LEVY SCREWED THE POOCH ON VINCENT

We've gotten some more information regarding the manner in which Bills safety Troy Vincent landed on IR. And the manner in which the situation was handled by the team convinces us that G.M. Marv Levy has little or no skill when it comes to the complexities of managing an NFL roster.

For starters, it turns out that there really is a "minor" Injured Reserve. It's a procedure used in lieu of an injury settlement, pursuant to which the player is added to IR but must be released when healthy.

When a player is on "major" IR, he's done for the year and gets paid his normal salary.

But in Vincent's case, the end result is the same -- the Bills will owe him his entire salary for 2006. Why? Because Vincent is a vested veteran entitled to take the balance of his $2.6 million salary as termination pay.

And once he's healthy, Vincent can sign with another team and receive wages on top of the $2.6 million base salary he'll get from the Bills.

In hindsight (or if Levy had applied any foresight), the Bills would have released Vincent prior to the start of the regular season. He then could have been re-signed after the first game, and his full salary would not have been guaranteed.

So while Levy might have been a very good coach, running the team is a much different endeavor. In this specific case, Levy's failure to understand the rules has forced his boss to pay $2.6 million to a guy who was available for only one game.

Meanwhile, we're hearing that the injury really isn't very significant, and that Vincent could be healthy soon. So when he's healthy (and then released), Vincent will be able to sign with any other team in the league.

Technically, Vincent would have to clear waivers if he's released after the trading deadline. But it's unlikely that anyone else would claim his contract when he can be signed the next day for a lower contract.

So look for Vincent to be playing for another team at some point this year, even though he'll be receiving the bulk of his compensation from the Buffalo Bills.

Turns out the ignorrant SOB is the idiot who wrote this without realizing that the start of the season was BEFORE Vincent got injured which was the start of this thing in the first place.

We didnt have the option that this whole ridiculous thought was based on.

More media cluelessness, thanks but no thanks, moving on.

[Stewie]

Vincent got hurt in preseason

[X-Era]

Vincent got hurt in preseason

Vincent started the Pats game.

[Stewie]

Vincent started the Pats game.

Yes, thank you einstein.

Vincent got hurt in the preseason. He aggrivated his injury against the patriots, and obviously it got a lot worse.

[X-Era]

Yes, thank you einstein.

Vincent got hurt in the preseason. He aggrivated his injury against the patriots, and obviously it got a lot worse.

Again, if hes healthy enough to start the damn game, it makes little sense to cut him prior to the game due to injury.

Its a stupid arguement plain and simple.

[Carlton Bailey]

Mike Florio = idiot.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

As I recall, that was Troy Vincent out there in Gillette Stadium on Sunday starting for the Buffalo Bills at free safety (whiffing on a couple of tackles, too, but that's another story....). Vincent was the team's starting free safety and, contrary of PFT, all of the evidence points to the fact that it was the Bills' intention to have Vincent at least play the beginning of their season as their starting safety until they felt that Ko Simpson was ready to step in and take the job from him.

Their is no evidence to support this author's assertioni that the Bills had any intention of releasing T.Vincent before he got hurt and the Bills found themselves left with three healthy safeties on Sunday. Indeed the evidence indicates the contrary: if the Bills had plans to release Vincent before he was hurt enough to leave the game on Sunday, why would they have released both of the other experienced free safeties on their roster prior to the season?

The Bills may have wanted Vincent to retire when they offered him a front office job early in the year, but every move that they've made since the draft and prior to Vincent taking himself out of the game on Sunday indicates that their intention was to keep Vincent this year to tutor their two rookie safeties.

But, no matter how minor Vincent's injury may be at this point, we're talking about a 35 year old man having re-aggravated an admittedly nagging hamstring injury and, if he could not play this weekend or next weekend or were to come back and re-aggravate the injury later on in the season, with Vincent on the sideline and unable to play, the Bills would be left with just three healthy safeties and just one healthy free safety--and no one to give Simpson a break or replace him in case he should get dinged up. Whatever people may be saying about Vincent being placed on IR now, can you imagine the uproar if they had kept Vincent on the active roster and found themselves caught short at free safety due to an in-game injury?

OK, so T.Vincent's hamstring might be well enough for him to play in a week or two. Even if he is ready to play full-time by then, what are the Bills supposed to do until then? Twiddle their thumbs? According to what Vincent is reported to have said to the beat reporters, he understood the Bills dilemma and is intending to stick around and continue to tutor Simpson and Whitner, at least for the next few weeks. That probably means until the doctors pronounce him healthy and he is able to reach an injury settlement with the team. By then, you're a third or more of the way into the season.

If the point of keeping Vincent in the first place was to have him tutor Whitner and Simpson until Simpson was ready to take over his starting job, well, the Bills are going to have that anyway, except that Simpson's learning curve will begin sooner and have to be steeper--but not because the Bills wanted that or because Vincent isn't on the roster and may not be with the team after he gets healthy, but because Vincent got hurt and Simpson has to play now, instead of easing into the job in the second half of the season! Simpson had shown enough already in the OTAs and training camp that it was only a matter of time before he became the starting safety, with Vincent starting and tutoring him until then. Well, Vincent can't start, so Simpson is going to have to and, even though he's not on the active roster, Vincent is still going to tutor him. It's just that the learning process for Simpson is going to happen a whole lot quicker and be a bit shorter than originally planned.

So, what's the big deal if Vincent end up coming to an injury settlement with the Bills and playing for some other team later on in the season once he has recovered from his hamstring injury? So long as he tutors Simpson before he leaves the Bills, what's the problem? There's none for Vincent: this allows him to take a little extra time to get healthy, which will be better for him than if he had to rush back from the injury to play for the Bills and make him more attractive to other teams as a possible mid-season addition, while still being involved with the team and the game and doing something productive with the Bills' young safeties. So, then, he goes and hitches on with some other team and perhaps gets himself a last playoff check. That doesn't harm the Bills because by then Simpson will be fully ensconced as their starting free safety in any event. If anything, having Vincent leave at that point helps the Bills because it terminates their financial committment to him at a point when they have the salary cap room to afford that and keeps them from having an unhappy veteran in their lockerroom concerned about his lack of playing time.

As much as the Bills might have wanted Vincent around this season to tutor Simpson until they could ease Simpson into the starting lineup and Vincent out, does anyone realistically believe that the Bills would be interested in bringing back a 36-38 year old to play free safety for them until 2009? Vincent was going to be gone from the Bills one way or the other after this season anyway. It's just that, thanks to his injury, the timetable for his departure has been moved up half a season, just like Simpson's learning process.

Now, the fact that Simpson's learning process and Vincent's departure have been moved up six months by Vincent's re-aggravating his hamstring injury is NOT to the Bills advantage--especially not for Simpson's development. But, the injury happened and the Bills have to deal with it and try to make the most of it.

Anyone who thinks that Marv Levy could have forseen this or somehow made it happen must think that Marv has extra-sensory powers that have not been in evidence previously in his long, illustrious career. Only those who are looking for a reason to criticize Marv or disparage him for anything that goes wrong would imagine that Marv is clairvoyant enough to have somehow foreseen that Vincent would get injured on the second defensive series of the first game of the season. Only someone who is looking to hate, distrust and undermine Levy would imaginehe is stupid enough to cut Baker, knowing that he wanted to cut Vincent but would not do so, then, hold onto Vincent despite being clairvoyant enough to know that he would be injured, and finally, cut Vincent because he was injured and the Bills no longer had Baker and would have to bring back Leonard to replace him. That might make sense for someone who believes in conspiracy theories and is so anxious to believe that Marv and everyone associated with the team will do anything to drive the team into the ground. But, I'm sorry, you don't get through Yale or get a master's degree from Harvard by being that stupid!

It never ceases to amaze me how much T.Donahoe and his regime twisted the psyche of some Bills fans to the point where they are willing to believe almost anything that might indicate that the people who are running the Bills are stupid, incompetent or involved in a conspiracy to insure that the team stinks, regardless of any other evidence to the contrary. T.D. is gone, people! And, believe it or not, while the people who are running the team now may not always be right, they are not stupid people and, I firmly believe, they are doing what they think is best to turn this team into a winning team and a successful franchise as soon as they possibly can. I don't know if they will succeed or not, but they are just not as stupid and incompetent in everything that they do as some would have you believe, including this article.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Why do we care? Vincent Blows at this point. I would rather have the rooks getting experience.

[bflojohn]

I come away feeling good about Troy Vincent because he is an aging veteran who is personifying professionalism and class in abundance! Where does it say in ANY NFL contract that you should WILLINGLY mentor the young man who takes your position with the team? Not many players in this league would elevate their stature to this point and, I, for one applaud his character. There seems to be a general rule in management these days whereby you, as a manager, should help mentor your eventual replacement. The simple truth is that FEW ever rise to this level due to fear, stubbornness, or contempt for this ideal. It seems to me that Troy Vincent has indeed learned a valuable lesson in his walk through the NFL and his future successes are virtual assured!

[Night Train]

You were right in your first sentence. PFT DOES SUCK.

awannabereporterinhisbasement dotcom

[Earthquake Enyart]

Why do we care? Vincent Blows at this point. I would rather have the rooks getting experience.
Once again, the voice of reason.

:bf1:

[Stewie]

Again, if hes healthy enough to start the damn game, it makes little sense to cut him prior to the game due to injury.

Its a stupid arguement plain and simple.

Bill Belichick did this exact thing with J. Smith.

I guess he's stupid.

[The King]

Vincent is an asset to our team. Whether he plays or not. He wasnt brought in as a long term guy, he was brought in to do what he's doing be a leader in the locker room and help the young guys mature and get better.

I dont care how you look at it having a guy with his dedication and intellegence on your team, makes your team better, period.

[Stewie]

Anyone who thinks that Marv Levy could have forseen this or somehow made it happen must think that Marv has extra-sensory powers that have not been in evidence previously in his long, illustrious career. Only those who are looking for a reason to criticize Marv or disparage him for anything that goes wrong would imagine that Marv is clairvoyant enough to have somehow foreseen that Vincent would get injured on the second defensive series of the first game of the season. Only someone who is looking to hate, distrust and undermine Levy would imaginehe is stupid enough to cut Baker, knowing that he wanted to cut Vincent but would not do so, then, hold onto Vincent despite being clairvoyant enough to know that he would be injured, and finally, cut Vincent because he was injured and the Bills no longer had Baker and would have to bring back Leonard to replace him. That might make sense for someone who believes in conspiracy theories and is so anxious to believe that Marv and everyone associated with the team will do anything to drive the team into the ground. But, I'm sorry, you don't get through Yale or get a master's degree from Harvard by being that stupid!

It never ceases to amaze me how much T.Donahoe and his regime twisted the psyche of some Bills fans to the point where they are willing to believe almost anything that might indicate that the people who are running the Bills are stupid, incompetent or involved in a conspiracy to insure that the team stinks, regardless of any other evidence to the contrary. T.D. is gone, people! And, believe it or not, while the people who are running the team now may not always be right, they are not stupid people and, I firmly believe, they are doing what they think is best to turn this team into a winning team and a successful franchise as soon as they possibly can. I don't know if they will succeed or not, but they are just not as stupid and incompetent in everything that they do as some would have you believe, including this article.

Stupidity has nothing to do with the length of your career or the name on your diplomas. Smart people make stupid mistakes, and stupid people can appear smart.

Keeping vincent and letting baker go was a boneheaded move.

While you may believe Marv has a "long and illustrious" career as a GM.. it doesn't change the fact that he made a mistake.

[Dr. Lecter]

Bill Belichick did this exact thing with J. Smith.

I guess he's stupid.

J. Smith was not a starter. Totally different situation.

[Night Train]

Keeping vincent and letting baker go was a boneheaded move.


Because Baker was a better gatorade drinker on the bench ?

Baker is not starting material and the mistake was a minor one that doesn't affect our starting lineup whatsoever. I'm aware of the depth ramifications but he's hardly a difference maker.

[Statman]

What a great idea!

Let's just cut everybody who's healthy, on the chance that they might get injured.

:rolleyes:
Are you questioning or challenging the GM geniusness of Dearth Levy?

[Jan Reimers]

:yawn:

Marv Levy is a NFL GM with people around him (Modrak and Co.) who are all well aware of how the NFL and GM duties work. Whatever they did they did for a reason, and while im sure the great football minds at profootball talk.com may think they know better, I assure you they dont.
My thoughts exactly.

I would be surprised if Vincent plays again. He may very well spend the rest of this season with the Bills as an unofficial, but well paid "assistant coach," helping develop Whitner, Simpson, and Youboty, then officially retire as a player at the end of the season.

Perhaps Marv and Vincent have an agreement that Vincent will stay around and help, with the hammy never getting "better," in return for Marv's assuring his $2.6M salary.

[BillsFever21]

What a great idea!

Let's just cut everybody who's healthy, on the chance that they might get injured.

:rolleyes:

What they mean is that this has nothing to do with him getting injured. Do you think if McGee got injured and was gonna be out for a month or so they would put him on the IR?

They want to get rid of him. If they didn't want him he should've been released before the season started so it wouldn't have cost us 2.6 million dollars.

Just a sign of some more stupidity in the front office at OBD.

[BillsFever21]

thats all good what they are saying in theory, but remember Vincent is the head of the NFLPA and it was wise to not to try to jerk the guy around

WTH does that have to do with anything? He can't affect us any just because he is the head of the NFLPA.

The decisions is based on all 32 teams not just the Bills. There isn't anything he could do to hurt the Bills because he's the head of the players union.

The Eagles have been screwed for the 3 years after they released Vincent. Boy has he really screwed them after they cut him.

And releasing a guy isn't jerking him around. It means you don't want him anymore. It happens to thousands of players every preseason.

They jerked him around more this way then it would've been to just release him prior to the season.

[L.A. Playa]

how is Vincent still getting paid his salary jerking him around ???

how could he screw the Bills, well players talk and if management of a team screwed a player over then the talk would get around and players would not want to play for that team

if you dont think this would happen then you are just blind

[Historian]

Are you questioning or challenging the GM geniusness of Dearth Levy?

What I'm questioning is the sanity of the article's author.

[BillsFever21]

how is Vincent still getting paid his salary jerking him around ???

how could he screw the Bills, well players talk and if management of a team screwed a player over then the talk would get around and players would not want to play for that team

if you dont think this would happen then you are just blind

So every player who gets released is getting screwed by the team who cut them? It happens to thousands of players a year.

The Eagles are still getting players to come and join them. They released Vincent a few years ago instead of paying him.

You are right. Players do talk...All of them and not just Troy Vincent. Every player who gets released is upset about it and can talk to other player about it.

It's stupid on the Bills part to pay 2.6 million dollars to an old guy who can't play anymore for 1 game when they could've released him prior to the season and not paid him a dime...which happens to thousands of players every preseason.

It's not screwing a guy over by releasing him. That's part of life in the NFL. If Levy and the Bills are that much of cowards to release a guy prior to the season because he is the head of the NFLPA then they shouldn't be in that position.

Paying 2.6 million dollars to a guy for 1 game is dumb. Releasing him prior to the season if you don't want him isn't.

Do you think Vincent thinks he's untouchable because he's the head of the NFLPA? That he shouldn't be released before a season starts even though he isn't good enough? If that's the case then every player in the league is gonna want his job when he steps down. That's part of the business in the NFL.

[L.A. Playa]

so how much of that $2.6 mil is coming out of your pocket ??

who cares ???

treat the guy with class like they are he may not have been good but was always classy.

if he didnt get hurt we wouldnt even be having this discussion right now

[BillsFever21]

so how much of that $2.6 mil is coming out of your pocket ??

who cares ???

treat the guy with class like they are he may not have been good but was always classy.

if he didnt get hurt we wouldnt even be having this discussion right now

So putting a guy on IR when he could play again in a month or so is treating him with class? I would hate to be treated with class by you.

Just because a guy was classy doesn't mean you keep him around and pay him millions of dollars.

We can just have a team full of classy washed up veterans all making 3 million a year. Sounds like a plan to me.

I think Vincent would've rather been released prior to training camp so he could've landed with a new team and had months to learn together with his new teammates. Not put on the IR when he could still come back and make him find a new team a month from now so he can be behind in their playbook.

It would be different if his injury was serious and would put him out for the next 13 weeks or so. It's a minor injury and he would be back in month. That isn't treating a guy with class.

Just paying a guy some money to play one game isn't showing him respect. Giving him enough time in the offseason to find another team and learn their system is.

The guy still wants to play football. Not be placed on IR over a 4 week injury so he will have to search for another team after that. The money is important too but the guy has tons of that.

Playing football is the most important thing to the guy or he wouldn't still be playing. He has all the money he will ever need. He also would've been paid by the other team who would've signed him in the offseason.

I think he is more upset by being dumped after a 4 week injury after he wasted all offseason here for nothing when he wants to play football. Now he has to find another team and learn their system, which will put him either further behind on the depth chart then he would've been had he been there all offseason working out with them.

[BillsFever21]

Treating the guy with class would've been to keep him on the team for the entire season and not make him go find another team. We're paying him anyway. Midas well have him here to contribute.

Dumping a guy after week 1 when he gets injured isn't treating a guys with class. Just paying a guy isn't treating him with class. The guy is a multi millionaire. He isn't still playing because he needs the money. He's still playing because he wants to still play football.

[L.A. Playa]

Treating the guy with class would've been to keep him on the team for the entire season and not make him go find another team. We're paying him anyway. Midas well have him here to contribute.

Dumping a guy after week 1 when he gets injured isn't treating a guys with class. Just paying a guy isn't treating him with class. The guy is a multi millionaire. He isn't still playing because he needs the money. He's still playing because he wants to still play football.

so you would rather go into a game short handed at a position because you want to use up his roster spot ??

the classy thing they did was talk to him and make a decision that was best for the team and for the player, they didnt place the guy on IR just to place the guy on IR they said he would be out 4-6 weeks the team couldnt afford to go that long without another body at that position and the classy thing they did was place him on minor IR so if he wants to play and find another team he can they could have just placed him on regular IR and he would have sat at home all year

[X-Era]

Bill Belichick did this exact thing with J. Smith.

I guess he's stupid.

Really???

J Smith was placed on minor IR?

Pretty sure he was flat out cut.

[Typ0]

this is a load of crap...Levy recognizes the importance of having a high character organization. One that wants to be high character needs to act high character. Cutting someone and resigning them in this fashion is not high character at all and every player would see what was happening.

[Stewie]

Really???

J Smith was placed on minor IR?

Pretty sure he was flat out cut.

Touche. Didn't need to though because Freddie is under the radar. I'm not gonna penalize Troy Vincent for being NFLPA President.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

so you would rather go into a game short handed at a position because you want to use up his roster spot ??

the classy thing they did was talk to him and make a decision that was best for the team and for the player, they didnt place the guy on IR just to place the guy on IR they said he would be out 4-6 weeks the team couldnt afford to go that long without another body at that position and the classy thing they did was place him on minor IR so if he wants to play and find another team he can they could have just placed him on regular IR and he would have sat at home all year

That's precisely the point. Well put, LA Playa!

Whether Vincent's injury keeps him out 4-6 weeks or just 14 days (2 weeks) as some are saying, do you want the Bills to play their next two games, both division games and the one on Sunday in 90 degree heat with no back up for your rookie free safety?

The Bills had to get another free safety in there this week. And, it simply came down to either putting Vincent on IR or letting one of the young players that they like go to fill that spot. Putting Vincent on minor IR had multiple advantages to it for the team and for Vincent.

The Bills get to immediately fill a need without losing a young guy they like; if Vincent leaves after he is healthy enough to play again, it ends any future committment that the team has to a 35 year old player that they have no intention of keeping beyond this year at a time when they can afford the salary cap hit; because he's a classy guy, they still get to have him mentor their rookie safeties until he is ready to sign elsewhere so that they can benefit from his knowledge and experience while playing; and they don't have to worry about whether this nagging injury will recur again during the season putting them in this same situation at a later date or will further degrade Vincent's already deteriorating skills.

Vincent gets a chance to take more time to heal before signing with another team; he still gets a chance to sign with another team and play this year; he still gets to mentor Whitner and Simpson before he does so; and, while signing with another team will put an end to his contract with the Bills and likely his playing career, if he signs on with a playoff contender, he has a chance to go out with a winner and pick up a playoff check.

There are worse ways for Vincent to go out and, if you notice, it isn't Vincent who is complaining--it is others on the team, but not him. He's the one who has said that he understands the team's decision and that the team has to do what is best for the team. He has also said that he is going to stay around to work with Whitner and Simpson, even though he could go home, because the organization has treated him well and he feels that he wants to give something back by doing this. If he felt that he was being jerked around by the Bills, I don't that he would be saying this or be willing to stick around--because he didn't and doesn't have to do either.

As for keeping Vincent and letting Baker go at the end of preseason, again I'll say this: the Bills wanted to keep Vincent to be the starter at the beginning of the season and mentor Simpson to the point where Simpson could take over as the starter sometime later on. Baker didn't have the experience and knowledge to mentor Simpson that Vincent had and they drafted Simpson to take over as the starter. They could not know or anticipate that Vincent would get hurt on the second series of the first game of the season. And it is unreasonable to expect that they should have.

Baker was never going to be the starter and he might not even be the starter under the present circumstances. Even though his physical skills had deteriorated to the point where Baker might have been better physically, Vincent's knowledge and experience and his ability to mentor Simpson and Whitner made him the better player for the Bills to keep to start the season because the whole idea was to get Simpson ready to step in as the starting free safety as soon as possible. Once Vincent decided that he wanted to play this season, the Bills were not going to cut Vincent! They were going to live with his deficiencies until Simpson was ready to take over.

Now, you can argue that the Bills should have kept Baker instead of one of the other young players that they did keep on their roster. That is indeed an arguable point. But, when you look at the cuts they made and who they kept, it appears that their philosophy is that they would rather keep a younger player/rookie that they think has some potential to develop or a backup who is a major contributor on special teams over a backup who has been around a couple of years who they don't see as becoming a starter and who is not a big special teams contributor. Baker fell into that latter category. Now, you can argue that isn't the right approach to take and there would be some merit to your argument. But, that seems to be the approach that they are taking and the approach that they feel will end up putting more quality players on the Bills roster in the long run. And, it should be obvious to everyone by now that the Bills front office and coaching staff is looking more at the long run than it is concerned about winning an extra game or two this season.

Spikes and some of the other older players in the lockerroom can be upset if they want, but this was a team that, for all of their knowledge, experience and hype, was 5-11 last season, that was 2-8 against winning teams on the road going into last week, and that had not won a big game in three seasons. The front office and coaching staff know this and that it isn't going to be good enough to make the Bills contenders. They are rebuilding. They have said that they are rebuilding. And, that means getting rid of players, no matter how classy, well-liked, knowledgeable, experienced or well-known, who were part of that losing and replacing them with players, primarily young players who can be taught how to win, that will help this team to win--not just today, but as part of a serious contending team in the near future.

At least from what he has said, Troy Vincent understands that and, while he may want to play again this season, has said that he accepts it. I can understand why Spikes and some other Bills players who can see then end of their careers approaching do not. But, I have a hard time understanding why Bills fans, who have had to watch the team lose in spite of all of the well-known names that have been on the roster for the last several years, can't. As Napoleon once said, "You have to crack some eggs to make an omlette!" and that's what the Bills are doing by turning their roster over so much this year. Yes, some mistakes are going to be made--no one is perfect--but those eggs are going to have to be cracked one way or the other if the Bills are ever going to become the kind of winning team that we all want them to be.

[Marvelous]

Good Move Marv!!!! Vincent has sucked bad since he arrived here.. He had that one great game when he had a sack & twi picks. It was during the 7 game blowout winning streak era with Bledsoe... Vincents 1st game back from injury... Besides taht game he's been worthless & We all know it... I woulda wanted Rashaad or Ko regardless of his health... Vincent was just hurting our defenses chemistry... As far as players reactions(Spikes) They love him because he translates teh language of teh CBA. And repressents the players.
I'm AMAZED how he just sucked with teh CB -to- FS transition... No chance at HOF for him...Later Troy((The Player)), don't let the door hit ya..Troy the person is 1st class and a great mentor..Atleast in the media...I wonder how much of that is because he knew he was loosing value every day though...???

[Typ0]

Not sure if this was mentioned elsewhere and I wish I had a transcript but London Fletcher was on Jim Rome today and I believe he said TV requested to be put on IR for the benefit of the team. They did go on to talk about how that decision from a coach could impact the team though so I'm not sure what the exact contents of the conversation was.

[tat2dmike77]

Why do we care? Vincent Blows at this point. I would rather have the rooks getting experience.

Finally someone who has the right idea

I dunno where all this troy vincent worshiping came from and honestly i don't care. How can people say this is a loss who gives a crap. Didn't most of you see the writing on the wall. If vincent did stay healthy most likely he would of been released in the upcoming off season anyway.

The guy is past his prime. He gets burnt, misses tackles, and doesn't pick the ball off like he used to. It's time for the rookies to play. Yeah big deal if thier rookies. Thier faster then vincent, most likely will make more plays, and they don't need a walker to get on the field.

Oh but i know. Oh he is good guy and leader and a team player. Well those are all good qualities they can only take you so far. Eventually age catches up to you, and in troys' case it has. Give the guy his cash and move on i'm sick of this already.

[G. Host]

Troy Vincent hasn't been a very good safety for Bills and the writer rarely has written a good article. They belong together!

[John Doe]

so how much of that $2.6 mil is coming out of your pocket ??

who cares ???


LAP is correct: this is really what the whole situation boils down to.

The Bills gambled (with Ralph's money) that Vincent could hold together for at least part of this season. If Bowen did not get hurt early, Vincent would possibly have been able to heal up.

Sure, Baker got away, but the guy was not all that great anyway - that is the reason that they brought Bowen in and drafted 2 more safteys as well. At this point, Jim Leonard is probably as good a back-up as Baker would have been and he is probably a better speical teams guy as well.

They gambled with Ralph's money and lost. He's got plenty more. It's not coming out of anyone else's pocket.

[Goobylal]

I agree JD. I think that they wanted a veteran to teach the younger guys the ropes and felt that Vincent had more left than Milloy did. Also I think that Vincent being the president of the NFLPA DID have something to do with NOT releasing him and his large salary, because the players looked up to him and looked to him for advice.

Hopefully the Bills can recoup some money, but I doubt it.