Want to know what good enough at RB is?

[X-Era]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXZhwb7H7pI&NR

Is McGahee this good?

:laugh:

No one is and no one may ever be again!

[YardRat]

Sanders was a great pure runner, but I'd take Brown, Simpson, Payton, and Thomas over him.

[LABillsFan]

I would have liked to have seen the run he had against the pat's. He 360'd some guy. It was just sic

[ICE74129]

Sanders was a great pure runner, but I'd take Brown, Simpson, Payton, and Thomas over him.

No way. I take sanders over anyone in history to this point. Put any semblance of a line in front of him and you can look for multiple 2k seasons

[Mitchy moo]

Man, he made the NFL look like a high school game didn't he? Like Ice said, give him a great line and put him in the books.

[Devin]

Barry Sanders is the defenition of RB.

No one has or will come close anytime soon to the talent that man had. Had he kept playing the rushing record would probably be approaching 25K.

[Jeff1220]

I love the run where Rodney Peete puts his hands up to signal TD when Barry still has about 25 yards and the entire secondary between him and the end zone. lol. That is confidence in a teammate.

[YardRat]

Had Brown not retired prematurely, he'd still be #1.

Simpson was Barry Sanders while Barry was still in diapers.

Payton and Thomas were better all-around backs.

Let's not forget Sayers, either.

Sanders was great...but he wasn't the best of all time.

[MikeInRoch]

I could watch Barry highlights for hours...

It's also kinda cool that the only time in his career he was stopped for a safety was against Buffalo. Bruce got him in the endzone.

[Luisito23]

Barry Sanders = The best RB of all time period.....:beers: :respect: ....



GO BILLS!!!!!!!!

[LifetimeBillsFan]

I'm a HUGE Jim Brown fan--rooting for the Giants in the NFL in those days, I absolutely HATED him because he was so good--and I still think that he is the best RB to ever have played the game. But, I would have loved to have seen Barry Sanders play behind a good offensive line on a good team--he's the only one that I put in the same class as Jim Brown.

Gayle Sayers could have been in that same class in my opinion and, like Sanders, might have been the best, but simply didn't play long enough, which was a tragic loss for football.

Payton, Simpson, Thomas, Campbell and let's not forget Bo Jackson (whose career, like Sayers' was cut short) and, dare I mention his name, E. Smith (anyone who saw him in overtime against the Giants knows why I do) were all great running backs, each in their own way, who should be part of the discussion. But, for my money, it comes down to Brown and Sanders--thunder and lightning--who were different kinds of RBs and I don't think that it's wrong to select either one as your pick as the best ever.

But, of course, that's just my opinion...and when you start talking about "the best ever" there are bound to be a lot of people who will see things very differently.

[CuseJetsFan83]

I'm a HUGE Jim Brown fan--rooting for the Giants in the NFL in those days, I absolutely HATED him because he was so good--and I still think that he is the best RB to ever have played the game. But, I would have loved to have seen Barry Sanders play behind a good offensive line on a good team--he's the only one that I put in the same class as Jim Brown.

Gayle Sayers could have been in that same class in my opinion and, like Sanders, might have been the best, but simply didn't play long enough, which was a tragic loss for football.

Payton, Simpson, Thomas, Campbell and let's not forget Bo Jackson (whose career, like Sayers' was cut short) and, dare I mention his name, E. Smith (anyone who saw him in overtime against the Giants knows why I do) were all great running backs, each in their own way, who should be part of the discussion. But, for my money, it comes down to Brown and Sanders--thunder and lightning--who were different kinds of RBs and I don't think that it's wrong to select either one as your pick as the best ever.

But, of course, that's just my opinion...and when you start talking about "the best ever" there are bound to be a lot of people who will see things very differently.


very valid points on all parts..... only reason why i give jim brown the edge is because he was so dominant.. and not just in football..... many of the common rules in lacrosse are in place because of him.....

barry sanders had he not just quit, would probably be in the 20-25k range, depending on if he was still with the lions, or with a team that could give him an OL.

jim brown, had he done the same thing, would probably be in the same area.....

the difference, brown is smashmouth in ur face.... sanders is finesse, but in their era's they were the same..... the best

[Statman]

I love the run where Rodney Peete puts his hands up to signal TD when Barry still has about 25 yards and the entire secondary between him and the end zone. lol. That is confidence in a teammate.
That's what caught my eye too. LMAO

Sanders is still behind a ton of guys and the QB's got his arms raised signifying a TD.

[Jan Reimers]

Jim Brown was the best ever. Period.

Those who think otherwise are too young to have seen him play, week after week, in his prime.

[ICE74129]

Had Brown not retired prematurely, he'd still be #1.

Simpson was Barry Sanders while Barry was still in diapers.

Payton and Thomas were better all-around backs.

Let's not forget Sayers, either.

Sanders was great...but he wasn't the best of all time.

Oh bull crap. Simpson better than sanders? Please stop. Sanders hands down is the best RB of all time to this point. And how do you know what kind of all around back Sanders was? They never threw to him. I know for FACT at OK state the guy could catch very well.

I have seen just about all of the guys you list, NONE compare.

[ICE74129]

Jim Brown was the best ever. Period.

Those who think otherwise are too young to have seen him play, week after week, in his prime.
I have seen him and he isn't sanders.

[RedEyE]

No one rolls away from a tackle like Barry Sanders, and that 0-60 acceleration is hard to match. The man broke ankles of nearly every defensman that was in the league then.

[X-Era]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXZhwb7H7pI&NR

Is McGahee this good?

:laugh:

No one is and no one may ever be again!

Does this change anyone perspective on how good McGahee is?

I just wonder sometimes if we have set our bar to low because we have been so average for so long.

[BillsNick]

IMHO, Barry Sanders is the greatest running back to ever play the game. And I mean BY FAR, the best.

[patmoran2006]

I think Larry Johnson will be among this discussion in 5-7 years.

I think Sanders is the best ever myself.. and I cant imagine what his stats would've been had he been a Bill or Cowboy during those years.

[Jan Reimers]

I have seen him and he isn't sanders.
You're right. Brown was 40 pounds heavier, far more powerful, and faster.

[justasportsfan]

I'd take only LT over Sanders because of his ability to catch the ball.

[chernobylwraiths]

I'm a HUGE Jim Brown fan--rooting for the Giants in the NFL in those days, I absolutely HATED him because he was so good--and I still think that he is the best RB to ever have played the game. But, I would have loved to have seen Barry Sanders play behind a good offensive line on a good team--he's the only one that I put in the same class as Jim Brown.

Gayle Sayers could have been in that same class in my opinion and, like Sanders, might have been the best, but simply didn't play long enough, which was a tragic loss for football.

Payton, Simpson, Thomas, Campbell and let's not forget Bo Jackson (whose career, like Sayers' was cut short) and, dare I mention his name, E. Smith (anyone who saw him in overtime against the Giants knows why I do) were all great running backs, each in their own way, who should be part of the discussion. But, for my money, it comes down to Brown and Sanders--thunder and lightning--who were different kinds of RBs and I don't think that it's wrong to select either one as your pick as the best ever.

But, of course, that's just my opinion...and when you start talking about "the best ever" there are bound to be a lot of people who will see things very differently.

My dad says that Cookie Gilchrist was the best back he ever saw.

Brown had one thing going for him that no running back will probably even have again. Along with his immense talent, Brown was about the same size as a lineman. It wasn't like he was knocking down 320 lb lineman with his hits, they were many 240 - 260 in many cases. The sheer athleticism and balance that Sanders displayed during his career have been unmatched. If I had my choice in today's game, I would take Sanders.

[chernobylwraiths]

You're right. Brown was 40 pounds heavier, far more powerful, and faster.

Brown was pretty fast for his day, but I don't think he was faster than Sanders even though Sanders wasn't considered a speed burner.

[ICE74129]

You're right. Brown was 40 pounds heavier, far more powerful, and faster.

And Sanders did more with less. he wasn't faster, Sanders had several 80+ yard TD Runs. Powerful? The man weighed between 203 and 206 and squatted over 600.

One more thing, Sanders is one of the better blocking backs in history as well. As for as catching, This has been addressed.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

My dad says that Cookie Gilchrist was the best back he ever saw.

Brown had one thing going for him that no running back will probably even have again. Along with his immense talent, Brown was about the same size as a lineman. It wasn't like he was knocking down 320 lb lineman with his hits, they were many 240 - 260 in many cases. The sheer athleticism and balance that Sanders displayed during his career have been unmatched. If I had my choice in today's game, I would take Sanders.

I agree with your father.

We used to have fights and arguments all of the time when I was growing up in the Perry Projects about who was better Jim Brown or Cookie and there were some of us who firmly believe that if the Bills had played the Browns in 1964 they would have beaten them. The reason that I didn't mention Cookie is that he was a total head-case and really didn't have a long enough career in the US to judge fairly--he never played against NFL talent, just in the AFL and he didn't play that well when he went to Denver, etc. When he was with the Bills, though, Cookie was right up there with Jim Brown. Another name that deserves mention, although he played even before my time is Marion Motley, who was bigger than even Brown and Gilchrist.

Jim Brown played at 230, Cookie was a shade bigger as I recall, about 240. The thing you have to remember is that both were fullbacks and good blockers, which is something that should be taken into account in any discussion of "best ever" running backs. Still, despite their size, they were also superb at running the sweep. While it is true that the defensive linemen were smaller, so too were the offensive linemen and, while both Brown and Gilchrist did get yardage running over people and carrying tacklers, both also had breakaway speed and were capable of going all the way every time they touched the ball whether running inside or outside. Brown was maybe a bit more agile than Cookie, but Cookie was more of a punishing runner inside.

For his part, Sanders could make something out of absolutely nothing and leave everyone in the stadium gasping in amazement. He could be surrounded by seven defenders and still get away and take it to the house. He truly was a ghost and nobody could make cuts like him. But, still, he also got caught in the backfield for losses a lot more than Brown or Gilchrist or even Sayers--which was largely due to the fact that he was the only offensive threat the Lions had and he had a lousy offensive line virtually all every year. That's why I said that I would have loved to have seen him on a decent offensive team and am hesitant to put him ahead of Jim Brown.

As I see it, Brown and Sanders were two so totally different types of RBs that at a certain point it becomes impossible to compare them.

As for starting a franchise, whew, I really don't know. Sanders would definitely put fannies in the seats and could provide a team with absolutely no other offensive stars with an offense and drawing power. But, I don't know how much of a force in the lockerroom or how much of a team leader he would be--I know he was respected, but I don't recall that he was a huge voice or force as a leader for the Lions. Jim Brown, on the other hand, was a dominant personality, indomitable, an outspoken team leader and a winner. I was too young to remember how well he played for the Browns early on in his career when the Browns were in transition and were not championship contenders, so I'm not sure if he could do the same things for a really weak team that Sanders could, but put Brown on a so-so team and he could make them instant contenders every year (remember that the QBs that Brown played with and won a title with were an over-the-hill Milt Plum and Frank Ryan, who was best known for becoming Dr. Frank Ryan, MD!). Again, apples and oranges and IMHO really a matter of personal preference.

What I think separates Cookie Gilchrist from these two--and the others I mentioned earlier--and IMHO drops him from the list is that, as good as Cookie was: if Cookie decided that he was carrying too much of the load and was underpaid, he just might decide not to play in a game to protest being underpaid (which he did at least once and threatened to do more often when he was with the Bills). And, I just don't think that you can say that a guy who would do that is the "best ever". Brown and Sanders would never do that during a season--indeed, both played when they were hurt and probably shouldn't have (and at least Brown was also underpaid)--afterwards, yeah, but not during the season with a title on the line.

[chernobylwraiths]

I agree with you LBF. Arguments will abound forever about atheletes of different eras. Ruth vs. Mays, Tiger vs Jack, Sanders vs. Brown, Unitas vs. Losman, Howe vs. Gretzky, Jordan vs. Chamberlain, Pete Weber vs. Earl Anthony, etc...

[ParanoidAndroid]

I love the run where Rodney Peete puts his hands up to signal TD when Barry still has about 25 yards and the entire secondary between him and the end zone. lol. That is confidence in a teammate.

This is exactly what I was gonna post. Sanders is hands down the best ever. Sweetness is the only one who comes close enough to justify debate, but it's still Barry IMO.

[YardRat]

Jim Brown is the only RB to average over 100 yards per game rushing over the course of his career.

Case closed.

[X-Era]

Jim Brown is the only RB to average over 100 yards per game rushing over the course of his career.

Case closed. Case re-opened. Sanders played in a newer era with LB's that can run 4.5's Jim Brown played in an era where our undrafteds like Stamer would have been stars. The speed of the game has changed and if you dont believe that find a single player from Jim Browns era that can run as fat as even Vernon Davis and hes a frikking TE! Theres a reason that track records keep getting broken. Technology has made us stronger, better, faster...basically Steve Austin. Jim Brown would end up buried on the depth chart if he played today or at very best another average RB like a Antwoin Smith or maybe Eddie George. Sanders could step right in today (yes at his peak age) and would be every bit as good as LT or any other top back. Why? You just cant tackle Sanders. Barry said once that he used to play 2 hand touch and if they couldnt get his flag, they sure as hell couldnt tackle him! Sanders has moves, wiggle, and jukes that NO OTHER PLAYER has ever had. And he NEVER had a good o-line around him. Ive said once and Ill say it again, Reggie Bush reminds me of Sanders. I think he can be THAT good.

[X-Era]

I agree with your father.

We used to have fights and arguments all of the time when I was growing up in the Perry Projects about who was better Jim Brown or Cookie and there were some of us who firmly believe that if the Bills had played the Browns in 1964 they would have beaten them. The reason that I didn't mention Cookie is that he was a total head-case and really didn't have a long enough career in the US to judge fairly--he never played against NFL talent, just in the AFL and he didn't play that well when he went to Denver, etc. When he was with the Bills, though, Cookie was right up there with Jim Brown. Another name that deserves mention, although he played even before my time is Marion Motley, who was bigger than even Brown and Gilchrist.

Jim Brown played at 230, Cookie was a shade bigger as I recall, about 240. The thing you have to remember is that both were fullbacks and good blockers, which is something that should be taken into account in any discussion of "best ever" running backs. Still, despite their size, they were also superb at running the sweep. While it is true that the defensive linemen were smaller, so too were the offensive linemen and, while both Brown and Gilchrist did get yardage running over people and carrying tacklers, both also had breakaway speed and were capable of going all the way every time they touched the ball whether running inside or outside. Brown was maybe a bit more agile than Cookie, but Cookie was more of a punishing runner inside.

For his part, Sanders could make something out of absolutely nothing and leave everyone in the stadium gasping in amazement. He could be surrounded by seven defenders and still get away and take it to the house. He truly was a ghost and nobody could make cuts like him. But, still, he also got caught in the backfield for losses a lot more than Brown or Gilchrist or even Sayers--which was largely due to the fact that he was the only offensive threat the Lions had and he had a lousy offensive line virtually all every year. That's why I said that I would have loved to have seen him on a decent offensive team and am hesitant to put him ahead of Jim Brown.

As I see it, Brown and Sanders were two so totally different types of RBs that at a certain point it becomes impossible to compare them.

As for starting a franchise, whew, I really don't know. Sanders would definitely put fannies in the seats and could provide a team with absolutely no other offensive stars with an offense and drawing power. But, I don't know how much of a force in the lockerroom or how much of a team leader he would be--I know he was respected, but I don't recall that he was a huge voice or force as a leader for the Lions. Jim Brown, on the other hand, was a dominant personality, indomitable, an outspoken team leader and a winner. I was too young to remember how well he played for the Browns early on in his career when the Browns were in transition and were not championship contenders, so I'm not sure if he could do the same things for a really weak team that Sanders could, but put Brown on a so-so team and he could make them instant contenders every year (remember that the QBs that Brown played with and won a title with were an over-the-hill Milt Plum and Frank Ryan, who was best known for becoming Dr. Frank Ryan, MD!). Again, apples and oranges and IMHO really a matter of personal preference.

What I think separates Cookie Gilchrist from these two--and the others I mentioned earlier--and IMHO drops him from the list is that, as good as Cookie was: if Cookie decided that he was carrying too much of the load and was underpaid, he just might decide not to play in a game to protest being underpaid (which he did at least once and threatened to do more often when he was with the Bills). And, I just don't think that you can say that a guy who would do that is the "best ever". Brown and Sanders would never do that during a season--indeed, both played when they were hurt and probably shouldn't have (and at least Brown was also underpaid)--afterwards, yeah, but not during the season with a title on the line. Love ya man, obviously in a non limp wrist way, but your read is a touch too "Felser" for me. Old school has its place but the game has changed SO much that its like comparing the abilities of a 57 Chevy to a 2006 Corvette.