How has Levy done so far?

[patmoran2006]

Before reading any further, know that this isn't a thread to bash Marv Levy. To be perfectly honest, I thought his hiring at the time was little more than a marketing gimmick. To his credit, you could see already how he's putting his stamp on this team, and that's by building team chemistry with an emphasis this year on defense. While the jury is still out on his free agent moves, the draft he led has the makings down the road of being one of the better ones in team history. From the first round pick down to the sixth, his rookies are already contributing and not coincidentally, all on the defensive side of the ball.

I'll be honest again--- I'm not sure how much credit Levy gets for the draft, because none of us really know if these draft picks were more his doing or Tom Modrak's. However, when your team sucks and the GM takes the fall for it (his fault or not), when the team does something well the GM deserves the credit-- so in this case with the draft I have to take my hat off to Marv.

A real brief draft review and we're only into week two.
* Donte Whitner- Forget about him being eased into the lineup, this guy is now a STARTER, and he already showed against NE why. THis guy is a major PLAYER.
* John McCargo- Impossible to evaluate after just one game, but he's going to be a good addition. Not quite sure he was worth trading up and picking him in late-first round-- But I've seen enough out of him in camp to give Marv the benefit of the doubt.
* Ashton Youboty- Hasnt played enough-- But if the college listed on the back of your rookie card says "Ohio State" and your a DB-- you're going to be a good player.
* Ko Simpson- As much as I like Whitner (a lot) I like Simpson even BETTER. This guy has a NOSE for the ball. He might get beat a lot as a rookie this year but trust me, 2 years from now this guy is a top 10 safety in this LEAGUE--He's THAT good.
* Kyle Williams- Possibly the steal of the draft for Buffalo, this guy has Chris Hovan written all over him. F Tim Anderson this guy starts for good by mid-season.
* Keith Ellison- solid backup and could (and now has to) start in spots. He's getting better too.
* The OL- If they work out they work out--who cares. When you have six rookies already contributing you already did your job.

So for the draft-- I give Marv a SOLID A+.. F the media around the league on draft day, Marv did a wonderful job.

HOWEVER

The free agent moves (and we made a ton of them) are still up in the air. We'll have to see how things play out-- But I think Marv dropped the ball early and often on the FA moves (sorry guys). And I DO UNDERSTAND its still September-- but I see what I see (not just what they've done to this point, but what I feel the future holds)

A quick examination
* Peerless Price- I dont see much. Occassional big game but inconsistent.
* Josh Reed- Yes, he played well at NE.. We'll see if that continues (doubt it)
* Melvin Fowler- I dont see much upgrade over Teague.
* Tutan Reyes- Anyone's better than Anderson was for us.
* Matt Bowen- Waste of money with the DB's we drafted and the club obviously liking wire on ST's to keep him.. Bad signing.
* Robert Royal- lets hope NE game was a one-time thing, he did a lot to cost us that game. The penalty and dropped first down pass were huge. and at least in that game, I didnt see this great blocking I'd been hearing about.
* Andre Davis- Who cares signing.
* Craig Nall- When you give a guy a $1.3 million signing bonus and he is your 3rd string QB, you HAVE to call the signing a stupid one.

But the undisputed (IMO) worst move Marv made
* Bringing back Nate Clements- While I dont hate Nate, he has GOOD ability and he's a GOOD corner-- ON this kind of team he was NOT worth $7.1 million dollars. couple that with the fact everybody in here and OBD pretty much KNOWS he's gone after this year (no franchise label agreed upon) and this was a horrible move. That money would've been so much better spent elsewhere. Off the top of my head-- Darren Howard (DE) or Stephen Neal (G) would've costed barely half that money and those are two spots we desperately need upgrading at. I didnt understand bringing back Clements at that rate then, and seeing how young and raw this team is, I see it even less now.

To Marv's credit on the FA front: A-Train was a great signing who gives the Bills a reliable backup behind Willis (who you fans treat like ****, and its apalling).

Now while I love the groundwork that Marv is laying right now, this next off-season is going to be even MORE critical. I said it before the season and I'll certainly say it now-- this is a 4-12 team this year. BUT (important) these young guys will get better--making next year's FA and draft even more important.

I now have confidence Levy will draft well-this year proves that. But I hope he makes a bigger impact in FA, even if it means less bodies but better players.

This year's FA class stressed quantity over quality to me.. Hope thats not the case next year.

[X-Era]

Before reading any further, know that this isn't a thread to bash Marv Levy. To be perfectly honest, I thought his hiring at the time was little more than a marketing gimmick. To his credit, you could see already how he's putting his stamp on this team, and that's by building team chemistry with an emphasis this year on defense. While the jury is still out on his free agent moves, the draft he led has the makings down the road of being one of the better ones in team history. From the first round pick down to the sixth, his rookies are already contributing and not coincidentally, all on the defensive side of the ball.

I'll be honest again--- I'm not sure how much credit Levy gets for the draft, because none of us really know if these draft picks were more his doing or Tom Modrak's. However, when your team sucks and the GM takes the fall for it (his fault or not), when the team does something well the GM deserves the credit-- so in this case with the draft I have to take my hat off to Marv.

A real brief draft review and we're only into week two.
* Donte Whitner- Forget about him being eased into the lineup, this guy is now a STARTER, and he already showed against NE why. THis guy is a major PLAYER.
* John McCargo- Impossible to evaluate after just one game, but he's going to be a good addition. Not quite sure he was worth trading up and picking him in late-first round-- But I've seen enough out of him in camp to give Marv the benefit of the doubt.
* Ashton Youboty- Hasnt played enough-- But if the college listed on the back of your rookie card says "Ohio State" and your a DB-- you're going to be a good player.
* Ko Simpson- As much as I like Whitner (a lot) I like Simpson even BETTER. This guy has a NOSE for the ball. He might get beat a lot as a rookie this year but trust me, 2 years from now this guy is a top 10 safety in this LEAGUE--He's THAT good.
* Kyle Williams- Possibly the steal of the draft for Buffalo, this guy has Chris Hovan written all over him. F Tim Anderson this guy starts for good by mid-season.
* Keith Ellison- solid backup and could (and now has to) start in spots. He's getting better too.
* The OL- If they work out they work out--who cares. When you have six rookies already contributing you already did your job.

So for the draft-- I give Marv a SOLID A+.. F the media around the league on draft day, Marv did a wonderful job.

HOWEVER

The free agent moves (and we made a ton of them) are still up in the air. We'll have to see how things play out-- But I think Marv dropped the ball early and often on the FA moves (sorry guys). And I DO UNDERSTAND its still September-- but I see what I see (not just what they've done to this point, but what I feel the future holds)

A quick examination
* Peerless Price- I dont see much. Occassional big game but inconsistent.
* Josh Reed- Yes, he played well at NE.. We'll see if that continues (doubt it)
* Melvin Fowler- I dont see much upgrade over Teague.
* Tutan Reyes- Anyone's better than Anderson was for us.
* Matt Bowen- Waste of money with the DB's we drafted and the club obviously liking wire on ST's to keep him.. Bad signing.
* Robert Royal- lets hope NE game was a one-time thing, he did a lot to cost us that game. The penalty and dropped first down pass were huge. and at least in that game, I didnt see this great blocking I'd been hearing about.
* Andre Davis- Who cares signing.
* Craig Nall- When you give a guy a $1.3 million signing bonus and he is your 3rd string QB, you HAVE to call the signing a stupid one.

But the undisputed (IMO) worst move Marv made
* Bringing back Nate Clements- While I dont hate Nate, he has GOOD ability and he's a GOOD corner-- ON this kind of team he was NOT worth $7.1 million dollars. couple that with the fact everybody in here and OBD pretty much KNOWS he's gone after this year (no franchise label agreed upon) and this was a horrible move. That money would've been so much better spent elsewhere. Off the top of my head-- Darren Howard (DE) or Stephen Neal (G) would've costed barely half that money and those are two spots we desperately need upgrading at. I didnt understand bringing back Clements at that rate then, and seeing how young and raw this team is, I see it even less now.

To Marv's credit on the FA front: A-Train was a great signing who gives the Bills a reliable backup behind Willis (who you fans treat like ****, and its apalling).

Now while I love the groundwork that Marv is laying right now, this next off-season is going to be even MORE critical. I said it before the season and I'll certainly say it now-- this is a 4-12 team this year. BUT (important) these young guys will get better--making next year's FA and draft even more important.

I now have confidence Levy will draft well-this year proves that. But I hope he makes a bigger impact in FA, even if it means less bodies but better players.

This year's FA class stressed quantity over quality to me.. Hope thats not the case next year.

VERY IMPRESSIVE!!!!

A real quality read!

I only disgaree a touch on Nate. Why the hell not tag him if were just gonna sit on 11 mil in cap room anyways? The last thing we want is to be looking for someone who you cant count on often ALONE to go 1 on 1 with the leagues best WR's. OUCH!

I actually like that move. Id like it better if he did something with Nate prior to letting him walk after this year, like a trade.

Melvin Fowler at least was a bonfide C, not a OT convert. Hes on the right side of 30 and was a highly touted C from Maryland to boot. I say this is an upgrade.

I continue to be impressed with our draft class. We blasted away at it. Look at how good guys like Simpson, Whitner, and Williams look. All are starters in game 2, have we EVER done that before? And its not like we are starting them because we stink, they play well and we have a strong D.

This draft may go down as one of our best in a decade. If you look at how quickly we get returns from them and how solid of players they are. Multiple pro-bowlers? probably not, but you cant get around that many decent starters who start so quick.

[HHURRICANE]

I like your post but:

1) Josh Reed was the best receiver on the field last week. His sideline catch was amazing. He's definately growing on me.

2) PP has one game under his belt and caught the ball.

3) Robert Royal can block and he was in NE. Royal, Everett is alot better than Campbell, Eehus, and Neufield.

4) You had to keep some veterans and getting rid of Clements wasn't an option. If you said that Deoin Branch wouldn't still be in NE 4 months ago I would have said that you were carzy. We needed some stability so I understand not making Nate a distraction. My issue is that it looks like Clements walks for free and that is incredibly stupid.

[BILLSROCK1212]

VERY IMPRESSIVE!!!!

A real quality read!

I only disgaree a touch on Nate. Why the hell not tag him if were just gonna sit on 11 mil in cap room anyways? The last thing we want is to be looking for someone who you cant count on often ALONE to go 1 on 1 with the leagues best WR's. OUCH!

I actually like that move. Id like it better if he did something with Nate prior to letting him walk after this year, like a trade.

Melvin Fowler at least was a bonfide C, not a OT convert. Hes on the right side of 30 and was a highly touted C from Maryland to boot. I say this is an upgrade.

I continue to be impressed with our draft class. We blasted away at it. Look at how good guys like Simpson, Whitner, and Williams look. All are starters in game 2, have we EVER done that before? And its not like we are starting them because we stink, they play well and we have a strong D.

This draft may go down as one of our best in a decade. If you look at how quickly we get returns from them and how solid of players they are. Multiple pro-bowlers? probably not, but you cant get around that many decent starters who start so quick. could also mean that we suck but i do agree great read and can you believe our 4th rounder is starting before our third rounder and our 5th before our 1st this is just sick and now our other 5th will be starting and then who knows when Brad Butler will start and with an injury to Melvin Fowler and Duke Preston taking over at RG the 4th to last pick in the draft Aaron Merz could be starting!!!! How sick is this!!!! we only have 3 players from last years draft on our roster and 2 UNDFA and none have started a game yet in fact none other than Duke Preston have been active at least i think for all 16 games including Prestons injuries because they were only minor if he had any this is crazy........

[BillsNick]

Nice read, I disagree with your Nate take, and also I have to go with HHURRICANE on the Josh Reed take, but otherwise, for the first time, I actually like what you've posted. :up:

[John Doe]

It's a little quick to dismiss the signings of Bowen, Fowler, and Royal.

Bowen is quality depth at both saftey positions and a very good special teams guy.

JP-era's comments about Fowler were dead on as well.

Royal will prove his worth.

Something else to keep in mind about the rookie defenders is that 4 of them were underclassmen when they were drafted. It makes the draft look all that much more impressive bucause of the upside of these guys.

An interesting side note is the selection of the active squad last week. Just about everyone (myself included) thought that Butler (5th round pick) would be among the 7 active offensive linemen. Pennington got the call instead. Will this guy turn out to be a 7th round steal? It's possible.

[SABURZFAN]

i'm not judging a draft after one game.

[Jan Reimers]

I think you forgot Triplett, who in my estimation was Marv's best FA signing. I would give Marv a little more credit on the FA front. He got some young, motivated players who are solid starters and quality backups.

[SABURZFAN]

I think you forgot Triplett, who in my estimation was Marv's best FA signing.


after giving up 180+ rushing yards,was Triplett even there?he's gonna have to step up his game after Week 1.

[patmoran2006]

I didnt forget Tripplett, though I didnt put him on the list.. I mentioned him later in the thread..

Triplett probably was our best FA signing, and thats the problem.. Dont get me wrong, he's a pretty good player, but with the cap room we had I was looking for more instant BOOM...

But again, I'm not bashing Marv cause our draft is working out WONDERFULLY to this point.

[Jan Reimers]

after giving up 180+ rushing yards,was Triplett even there?he's gonna have to step up his game after Week 1.
I think Spikes' leaving the game early and playing 5 rookies on D at times had something to do with their 183 yards rushing, too.

[justasportsfan]

I agree that the FA's could've been better but teams that are in rebuild mode don't go around hiring the biggest names out there for the sake of making waves around the league. He did a great job in hiring depth for a team that's in rebuild mode comapred to Our FA signings that were awful when TD first signed guys like Robinson.

Sure salary cap played a role. But Marv was pretty much on the same boat as TD being that all of a sudden the entire league had cap to compete with us because of the new CBA.

I still maintain that Marv is going with youth so he could have a team that can play together for years to come. Just like his 90's team. It's evident by going with youth in the FA.

Saban didn't have the players he wanted last year. He hired guys like Gus.

I like that Marv sat down and first made a plan. He started with the coach. It seems like he did a lot of thinking in this position while TD just grabbed any rookie coach that would say Yes sir in a heartbeat.

Marv may not have been in charge of hiring the players but he and his architect (jauron) did map out the plan and asked his foremans (Modrak and John Guy ) and their assts.(fairchild , Fewell) for input on what materials they needed and the Foremans went shopping.

I like that there is teamwork even when it comes to the staff. No one IMO acts like he knows better than the other. TD just ruled by himself with an iron fist.

I am quite happy even on the FA side. It isn't the final team that will be around for a decade but it's almost seems competitive enough for a rebuilding team.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

While I also think that it is still too early to evaluate all of the moves, for the most part, at this point, I agree with your analysis Pat. Although, I do think you were a bit harsh on some of the free agent moves because you didn't take into account the timing of some of the signings.

Bowen was signed before the draft and there was no way that the Bills could have known that Simpson would have been available or that Whitner--who they probably figured would be ready to start early on--would be able to step in and start from the beginning of the season. Bowen was brought in to replace Wire and provide some insurance and a safety net for Whitner. We all saw last week that Wire could never have given the Bills adequate play at safety if Whitner had needed longer to be ready to play. It's unfortunate that Bowen got hurt and has not been able to play, but fortunately Whitner has come in and looked like the real deal from Day 1. If he gets healthy, Bowen will give the Bills the option of releasing Wire, which, if Bowen were healthy, might have meant that they would have kept Vincent instead of putting him on IR.

Davis might not be or amount to much, but he was signed before they knew that they would get Reed back or had any idea that Price would be available. And, Davis came cheap.

I know Reed has a bad reputation with Bills fans and as a 2nd round draft pick has been a disappointment, but his numbers compare favorably to the other # 3 receivers in the league and there were at least three other teams that were interested in signing him before he re-upped with the Bills, including Carolina and the Pats. I know the money was high and Carolina would not have paid that much, but, with Davis' injury history, the Bills needed more than Aiken, Smith and Wilson to go with Lee Evans and Reed was probably the best of the WRs that the Bills could have signed without giving up draft picks in a trade (as in for Lelie or Lloyd, neither of whom has a better rep for catching the ball consistently than Reed).

I know Price didn't catch many passes last week, but it's only one week and he did run some nice routes during the game when the ball went elsewhere. This is one signing where I need to see more. Same with Royal, who obviously had a bad game.

To me the jury is still out on Nall--who I think might have pushed Losman and definitely Holcomb more if he had not gotten hurt and missed so much of training camp. Same with Reyes, who definitely is an upgrade over Anderson.

I'm not sure about the Clements move being as bad as you think it was simply because they had to have some uncertainty about how much of a pass rush they would get from the D-line. Clements may not be as good as he thinks he is or worth the $ 7.1 million, but he can cover one-on-one and you need to be able to do that if you can't generate a pass-rush consistently or need to have your safeties come up to help against the run. Even with the infusion of young talent from the draft, I think that they may still see this defense as being a work in progress and decided to keep Clements as a stop-gap measure for a year while they see exactly what they have and what they need in the front seven. And, I think they figured that, in addition, Clements could also tutor Youboty so that he would be ready to take over the spot next season. So, this move might yet work out, although Nate looked like he was a bit more concerned about not getting hurt last week than taking on the Pats' RBs when they had a full head of steam.

I think justasportsfan is right about Marv coming in with a plan and I'm not sure that he would have been interested in spending the money that he would have saved by not signing Clements to sign the players or the kinds of players that you wanted him to sign--even if they had been interested in signing with the Bills (which we don't know that they would have been). I think he looked at the 5-11 team that he inherited and decided to tear it down and build the kind of team that he feels will be more successful, taking the time to see what he has and what he needs in certain areas before going out and getting any big-name, big-ticket free agents. With Ralph Wilson saying that he thinks it will take 2-3 years to turn the team into a winner, I think Marv's idea was to build on his draft choices and whatever quality young players the team already had, without regard to winning immediately, and be in a position to fill in around those players with a few key free agents later on when the team is in a better position to win and those signings will have a bigger impact. A 26 year old big-ticket free agent signed for this season will be 28-29 by the time the team is ready to contend and will have been beaten down by two years of losing by then and be on the verge of going into the downside of his career--so that money is pretty much wasted on him for those two years. A cheaper role player who is the same age may or may not become an asset--if he does, you keep him, if not, you replace him--but, if he does, when the team is ready to contend you only have an aging role-player, not an aging star to worry about replacing. When the team's young draft picks are ready to contend, you sign a couple of top-flight 26 year old free agents, who are close to the same age as your first draft class, to fill your remaining major needs. And, then, you get some real bang for your free agent bucks--which would not be the case if you sign your big-ticket free agents now without knowing what you will be able to get in your next draft or two or which of your young role players will develop into good players.

While I think that the team that Marv has put together can be competitive enough to squeeze out a couple of more wins than you think they will win, Pat, given Losman's improvement and the weakness of their schedule, for the most part, though, I agree with your conclusions about how Marv has laid the groundwork for a better team and this next off-season being critical.

Personally, I think the target year may not be next year, but the year after. Which may mean that Marv's free agent moves could again be low-key enough to be disappointing to some, but will definitely mean that next year's draft will be critical. Add 4-5 solid rookies to this year's draft class and players like Evans, Losman, Peters, etc. and give them a year of experience next year, clearing out more deadwood as you go, and you have a solid core of players ready to contend if you add another good draft class and a couple of top-flight free agents in year three. But, that means that they have to get another good draft class out of next year's draft and that this year's group and their young vets have to continue to develop. It would also help if one or more of the young vet free agents that they have signed or sign next offseason blossoms into a good player as well. That would allow the Bills to be more competitive next year and allow them to start to get a real feel for winning so that they are ready to contend when the key free agent additions are made after next season.

If that's the plan that Marv has, it means that this season is going to be a real roller-coaster ride and next year could similarly have its ups-and-downs. But, the consolation will be that the team will be more competitive even when it loses and will be moving in the right direction.

[G. Host]

They are NOT releasing Wire despite the fact that many fans hate his play; his distractors have been saying he would be released in offseason, in training camp, in preseason, before opener, etc. They have been happy with his play on special teams and value it more than many fans and some other teams. When his contract comes up for renewal then we will see what will haopem but until then he will be around for those who want an easy target.

[Night Train]

Everyone assumed that an 81 year old GM and an 87 year old owner would have a "win now" mentality.

Yet they give Jauron and his staff complete freedom. 5 April picks were starting on D last week. Knock, knock... This will take time.

Our Free Agent signings were OK but this is 2 year plan, minimum. Another off-season needed for OL, DL help. Still, I love the direction. No beefs at all.