Losman had a bad game.

[HHURRICANE]

Losman had decent stats but a bad game. PERIOD. Don't sugar coat it or BS me. With that said he is the starter and will be next year and beyond.

Losman is our future wether you like it or not. There are no other vet's that would be any better unless you want to see Jake Plummer in a Bills uniform. Brady Quinn, who were not going to be in a position to get anyway, would be another 2-3 year project. The coaching staff, who did an excellent job of managing JP in Miami, did a horrible job this week. Horrible. The kid needs to be babysat until he is thinking about the D and not his mechanics. It will come but everyone, including me, needs to be patient.

We also have to start being objective around here. JP had alot to do with us losing this game. If we are to have credibility than we have to admit when JP plays poorly. He threw some really bad passes. The 2 crappy deep balls and the consecutive crappy 3 yarders to Willis when we had a chance to drive for a tie come to mind.

He didn't play well so admit it, accept it, and realize that he's our QB for a while.

[Philagape]

The INT was bad.

The last drive was bad.

On both fumbles, he was blindsided by free blitzers just as he was about to release the ball. I don't expect a QB of his experience to have a "feel" for that.

But for most of his attempts, he made plays and good decisions. The few mistakes were just devastating.

[THATHURMANATOR]

He didn't play well. We need to get back to our gameplan!

[ICE74129]

Losman had decent stats but a bad game. PERIOD. Don't sugar coat it or BS me. With that said he is the starter and will be next year and beyond.

Losman is our future wether you like it or not. There are no other vet's that would be any better unless you want to see Jake Plummer in a Bills uniform. Brady Quinn, who were not going to be in a position to get anyway, would be another 2-3 year project. The coaching staff, who did an excellent job of managing JP in Miami, did a horrible job this week. Horrible. The kid needs to be babysat until he is thinking about the D and not his mechanics. It will come but everyone, including me, needs to be patient.

We also have to start being objective around here. JP had alot to do with us losing this game. If we are to have credibility than we have to admit when JP plays poorly. He threw some really bad passes. The 2 crappy deep balls and the consecutive crappy 3 yarders to Willis when we had a chance to drive for a tie come to mind.

He didn't play well so admit it, accept it, and realize that he's our QB for a while.

Oh Bull ****. he had a 50/50 game. He can't block for himself and he sure as hell can't ****ing tackle. For the most part he did his job. 300+ yards and you guys are still *****ing. ***** if we win and its under 100 and ***** when he tosses 320 and a loss.

When this team (Esp the damn RB) learns to block and the learn to tackle some one on defense, THEN the TEAM will be playing better football. BTW read the thread where the guy ACTUALLY THERE said our WR's were NOT getting open and JP had to check down to his 3rd and 4th options a lot. The kid did fine all things considered.

It amazes me how some of you have unrealistic expectations. You want the results a 3 year STARTER puts up that has a good team around him. JP hasn't started for 3 years nor does he have that great a team around him yet.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Yeah he is making strides.

[ICE74129]

Yeah he is making strides.

And didn't we ALL say thats all we can expect this year? He isn't going to be Joe friggin montana in less than a full season of starts! He is starting to get there. The guy we see 6 weeks from now will be more polished than the guy yesterday. The guy at the end of the season will be more polished than the guy 6 weeks from now etc.

People need to just back the hell of and let the kid do his thing. He is getting there but its a process.

[Earthquake Enyart]

I don't know how you teach pocket awareness.

If you watch Grossman, Rivers, Big Ben, et. al., they all look like they have a freaking clue. Even Charlie Frey looks more like an NFL QB at this point.

We're stuck with him this year, but he's no answer. He's the next Rob Johnson.

Put me down for Troy Smith.

[baamf]

As a Jets fan I must say I wasn't that impressed with him yesterday. Some of his early decisions looked good, but he seemed to be a bit rattled in the second half. I cut him some slack in the late drives because the Jets were in their "Victory Defense" which makes it difficult to get too many chunk plays. As an outsider who doesn't watch him weekly like you folks do he seemed to be a young QB with a good toolset who just doesn't yet have the intelligence and experience to win a game on his own. Will he ever develop those traits? Remains to be seen in my book, and agree he needs to be coddled a bit more by the coaching staff at this point in his maturation process. Have to give him props on that late TD run, nice moves on a gutsy play. Not to mention, the wind there looked brutal so putting up the numbers he did is not too shabby...

[HHURRICANE]

Oh Bull ****. he had a 50/50 game. He can't block for himself and he sure as hell can't ****ing tackle. For the most part he did his job. 300+ yards and you guys are still *****ing. ***** if we win and its under 100 and ***** when he tosses 320 and a loss.

I didn't care about his first 2 games. I didn't blame hime for the NE loss either. But this game has him accountable. Be objective. His last series was a joke plus he threw a ton of high balls all day. Ice his stats don't matter in a loss. Holcomb has had two 400+ yard games that resulted in losses. He made mistakes that resulted in turnovers, etc. This is with the pass he get's for the 7 that the Jets got on McGahees poor block.

[ICE74129]

I don't know how you teach pocket awareness.

If you watch Grossman, Rivers, Big Ben, et. al., they all look like they have a freaking clue. Even Charlie Frey looks more like an NFL QB at this point.

We're stuck with him this year, but he's no answer. He's the next Rob Johnson.

Put me down for Troy Smith.

Grossman has a clue? You mean like running into his own endzone then throwing a pick for a TD? You mean a clue like 3 ints and no TD's for big ben?

please STFU already.

[ICE74129]

I didn't care about his first 2 games. I didn't blame hime for the NE loss either. But this game has him accountable. Be objective. His last series was a joke plus he threw a ton of high balls all day. Ice his stats don't matter in a loss. Holcomb has had two 400+ yard games that resulted in losses. He made mistakes that resulted in turnovers, etc. This is with the pass he get's for the 7 that the Jets got on McGahees poor block.

Oh bull crap. So his stats only matter in Wins? Pure crap. You guys are a flat out joke. No QB can succeed with the constant change in demands you put on them. Unrealistic expectations are all you guys put out there. You expect perfection, sorry NO QB is perfect.

You guys would be stupid enough to ***** if we had Joe montana in his prime, or Elway, Kelly, Young whomever. You guys just can't be pleased.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Grossman has a clue? You mean like running into his own endzone then throwing a pick for a TD? You mean a clue like 3 ints and no TD's for big ben?

please STFU already.
No.

You don't see any of them get blasted and fumble the ball 20 yards away from where they are.

[LtBillsFan66]

He didn't play well. We need to get back to our gameplan!
:up:

[ICE74129]

No.

You don't see any of them get blasted and fumble the ball 20 yards away from where they are. Really? I have seen it out of all of them at some point. Again You wish to ignore fact. How did ben do yesterday? Whats his teams record with him at QB this year? 0-2.

And the reason I didn't see them yesterday get blasted and fumble....their RB's can pick up the blitz unlike ours.

[HHURRICANE]

Grossman has a clue? You mean like running into his own endzone then throwing a pick for a TD? You mean a clue like 3 ints and no TD's for big ben?

please STFU already.

Although EE needs to get over the fact that we are staying with Losman I do have one stat that counters your argument.

Week 3:

Grossman (W)

Losman (L)

[ICE74129]

Although EE needs to get over the fact that we are staying with Losman I do have one stat that counters your argument.

Week 3:

Grossman (W)

Losman (L)

Ben R L
Eli L

We can play this game all day. BTW I will now blow your stat to hell, JP doesnt' have a defense that can create turnovers. Check and mate.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Although EE needs to get over the fact that we are staying with Losman I do have one stat that counters your argument.

Week 3:

Grossman (W)

Losman (L)
We're stuck with JP this year, and we'll lose at least 4 games we should win.

Then, we'll be looking for a QB next off season.

Anybody who doesn't see this needs to get their heads examined.

[ICE74129]

We're stuck with JP this year, and we'll lose at least 4 games we should win.

Then, we'll be looking for a QB next off season.

Anybody who doesn't see this needs to get their heads examined.

Care to bet?

[HHURRICANE]

We're stuck with JP this year, and we'll lose at least 4 games we should win.

Then, we'll be looking for a QB next off season.

Anybody who doesn't see this needs to get their heads examined.

Yeah, who?!

[BillsFever21]

Name me one QB who doesn't have a few bad passes a game and that completes every pass? When you can find one please enlighten us.

JP threw some great passes yesterday. We had tons of big plays. He threw for 328 yards. That's one horrible game there. The dude can't even complete a pass.

[justasportsfan]

, and realize that he's our QB for a while. I would gladly.

[BillsFever21]

Grossman has a clue? You mean like running into his own endzone then throwing a pick for a TD? You mean a clue like 3 ints and no TD's for big ben?

please STFU already.

Big Ben and his 1 TD and 5 INT's so far this season.

Yeah and Grossman is so great. Why because he's on a great team and had a couple good games? The pussy will be hurt by Week 7.

[HHURRICANE]

Okay, let's try this again for the mentally impaired:

1) Losman did not lose us the game. There is plenty of blame to go around.

2) He had good numbers but turned the ball over. He had a poor interception pass into double coverage and would have had another if not for PP's pass interference. His last drive was god awful.

3) There is nobody out there that is going to replace him. A rookie means another 2-3 years of rebuilding. This team needs to be in the playoffs next year. PERIOD.

4) JP is not Jim Kelly or John Elway. JP is not Rob Johnson or Kerry Collins either. There are plenty of average to above average QB's that win games and Superbowls. Let's get real with the comparisons.

[Risin]

I don't know how you teach pocket awareness.

If you watch Grossman, Rivers, Big Ben, et. al., they all look like they have a freaking clue. Even Charlie Frey looks more like an NFL QB at this point.

We're stuck with him this year, but he's no answer. He's the next Rob Johnson.

Put me down for Troy Smith.


Wow, please tell me this is sarcasm.

If not, I don't know what to think...

[ICE74129]

Okay, let's try this again for the mentally impaired:

1) Losman did not lose us the game. There is plenty of blame to go around.

2) He had good numbers but turned the ball over. He had a poor interception pass into double coverage and would have had another if not for PP's pass interference. His last drive was god awful.

3) There is nobody out there that is going to replace him. A rookie means another 2-3 years of rebuilding. This team needs to be in the playoffs next year. PERIOD.

4) JP is not Jim Kelly or John Elway. JP is not Rob Johnson or Kerry Collins either. There are plenty of average to above average QB's that win games and Superbowls. Let's get real with the comparisons.

And Kelly nor Elway was kelly or elway till they had more experience. and BOTH had much worse games than JP just did in their careers

[Patti120]

This thread sucks. JP did not lose us the game, period. End of Thread!

[Earthquake Enyart]

You can't use the words "Elway" or "Kelly" in the same sentence as "Losman".

Feel free to use "Rob Johnson".

[ICE74129]

You can't use the words "Elway" or "Kelly" in the same sentence as "Losman".

Feel free to use "Rob Johnson". If you knew football history, you can use the words Elway, Farve, young and several others when talking about JP.

[Jeff1220]

Stats suck!

I'll take a QB w/86 yds passing and 1 TD, like last week, if it means a W

[feelthepain]

Losman had decent stats but a bad game. PERIOD. Don't sugar coat it or BS me. With that said he is the starter and will be next year and beyond.

Losman is our future wether you like it or not. There are no other vet's that would be any better unless you want to see Jake Plummer in a Bills uniform. Brady Quinn, who were not going to be in a position to get anyway, would be another 2-3 year project. The coaching staff, who did an excellent job of managing JP in Miami, did a horrible job this week. Horrible. The kid needs to be babysat until he is thinking about the D and not his mechanics. It will come but everyone, including me, needs to be patient.

We also have to start being objective around here. JP had alot to do with us losing this game. If we are to have credibility than we have to admit when JP plays poorly. He threw some really bad passes. The 2 crappy deep balls and the consecutive crappy 3 yarders to Willis when we had a chance to drive for a tie come to mind.

He didn't play well so admit it, accept it, and realize that he's our QB for a while.

There is word Jake Plummer will be avalible next year, he would be a much better fit for the Bills.

[Michael82]

:puke:

[HHURRICANE]

This thread sucks. JP did not lose us the game, period. End of Thread!

The name of the thread wasn't "JP lost us the game". It was "Losman had a bad game". Take off the homer glasses, put down the kool-aid and rewatch the game. There is plenty of blame to go around but JP fumbled the ball twice, threw a pick, caused a pass interfernece penalty, and sucked on the last drive to try and tie the game. If you don't agrre than start a thread like "Not JP's fault" or "JP's the best" and let's see how fast it takes you to get ripped.

[ICE74129]

The name of the thread wasn't "JP lost us the game". It was "Losman had a bad game". Take off the homer glasses, put down the kool-aid and rewatch the game. There is plenty of blame to go around but JP fumbled the ball twice, threw a pick, caused a pass interfernece penalty, and sucked on the last drive to try and tie the game. If you don't agrre than start a thread like "Not JP's fault" or "JP's the best" and let's see how fast it takes you to get ripped.

How is 320 yards, 1 TD and 1 rushing TD along with trying to lead a winning come from behind drive a 'bad game'. He had a decent game with a couple of mistakes in which TWO of his fumbles were missed blocks and one was a flat blind side.

He didn't have a bad game, he just didn't have a COMPLETE game.

[HHURRICANE]

How is 320 yards, 1 TD and 1 rushing TD along with trying to lead a winning come from behind drive a 'bad game'. He had a decent game with a couple of mistakes in which TWO of his fumbles were missed blocks and one was a flat blind side.

He didn't have a bad game, he just didn't have a COMPLETE game.

ICE, what is this?! "Trying to lead a winning come from behind drive" Okay lets give him an "A" for effort and forget that he overthrew McGahee twice and threw the most awful ball on 4th down.

You keep leaving out the most important stat: (L)

I'm not saying that JP didn't do some good things and I'm not saying that he played himself out of a job. I'm just saying he didn't play well.

Keep your love affair with JP behind closed doors.

[justasportsfan]

I didn't care about his first 2 games. I didn't blame hime for the NE loss either. But this game has him accountable. Be objective. His last series was a joke plus he threw a ton of high balls all day. Ice his stats don't matter in a loss. Holcomb has had two 400+ yard games that resulted in losses. He made mistakes that resulted in turnovers, etc. This is with the pass he get's for the 7 that the Jets got on McGahees poor block.
So let me get this straight, you are blamming WIllis on another thread, JP on this, coaches too. You're forgetting it wasn't JP's job to stop Chad and co. Sounds like a team loss to me.

Oh I get it. You pretty much agree it's a team loss but decided to blame each party in a different thread?

[ICE74129]

ICE, what is this?! "Trying to lead a winning come from behind drive" Okay lets give him an "A" for effort and forget that he overthrew McGahee twice and threw the most awful ball on 4th down.

Keep your love affair with JP behind closed doors.

No he gets a B for the game. I agree with justa, here you are saying its coaching, then defense then specifically ripping on JP.

As for the 'Love affair comment' Its a TOS.

[Mahdi]

Last week the complainers were saying that JP was a "game manager" and when is he going to actually put up some numbers. This week he puts up numbers but has a couple turnovers and now the complaint is that he's not competent? How about he's still young and needs a full season before he can actually put all his qualities into one game. The first two games showed he can protect the football and play smart and this one showed that he can move an offense and make all the necessary throws. As the season progresses im sure he will manage to start puting things together. That however takes time, you cant expect a Pro-Bowl season from the guy, lets be realistic.

[The_Philster]

He didn't have a great game..but he hardly had a really bad one. He was about average or a little above. I can't give him any blame on the 2nd fumble...totally blindsided. The 1st fumble...I really think he should've held onto the ball....it looked like he realized the pressure was coming and tried to get rid of it too late...a sack would've been better to take. The pick...ill-advised throw, IMO. Overall, I'd give him a C+ or even a B- for the game

[ICE74129]

He didn't have a great game..but he hardly had a really bad one. He was about average or a little above. I can't give him any blame on the 2nd fumble...totally blindsided. The 1st fumble...I really think he should've held onto the ball....it looked like he realized the pressure was coming and tried to get rid of it too late...a sack would've been better to take. The pick...ill-advised throw, IMO. Overall, I'd give him a C+ or even a B- for the game

I think the pick was just a ball coming out of his hands wrong. If I remember it had just started raining. This isn't an excuse, sometimes QB's have bad throws.

The first fumble he was trying to pass and it should have at least been challenged.

[HHURRICANE]

So let me get this straight, you are blamming WIllis on another thread, JP on this, coaches too. You're forgetting it wasn't JP's job to stop Chad and co. Sounds like a team loss to me.

Oh I get it. You pretty much agree it's a team loss but decided to blame each party in a different thread?

Wow, talk about putting words in my mouth.

1) Never said that it was JP or Willis that lost us the game. PERIOD. Did Did JP and Willis make mistakes that contributed, yes.

2) The coaching staff blew this game. PERIOD. Their mistakes that put us in harms way. Got too cute and it cost us.

3) JP did not play well. PERIOD.

4) McGahee half-assed a block that led to 7 points for the other team. PERIOD.

Find something in any of my threads that says differently.

[ICE74129]

Wow, talk about putting words in my mouth.


3) JP did not play well. PERIOD.

.

Again BULL **** period! 328 yards 1 TD and 1 rushing IS A GOOD GAME! you just stated WHY the other turnovers happened (minus the bad pass by JP).

You can't have it both ways. You can't say he had a bad game then say blocking caused his turnovers. Sorry, no.

[HHURRICANE]

Again BULL **** period! 328 yards 1 TD and 1 rushing IS A GOOD GAME! you just stated WHY the other turnovers happened (minus the bad pass by JP).

You can't have it both ways. You can't say he had a bad game then say blocking caused his turnovers. Sorry, no.

ICE he had three turnovers. He get's a pass on one. That means 2 are his fault.

3-1=2

[ICE74129]

ICE he had three turnovers. He get's a pass on one. That means 2 are his fault.

3-1=2

And that is 2 turnovers in 3 games. Care to go look at the QB's rated ahead of him on NFL.com? I dont' think you do, trust me I have looked. Hell I think Hasselbeck has 5 Ints alone. I know palmer has at least 4.

JP is doing just fine, he had a good but not complete game.

[HHURRICANE]

And that is 2 turnovers in 3 games. Care to go look at the QB's rated ahead of him on NFL.com? I dont' think you do, trust me I have looked. Hell I think Hasselbeck has 5 Ints alone. I know palmer has at least 4.

JP is doing just fine, he had a good but not complete game.

You keep ignoring the most important stat again:

Palmer and Hasselback = 6-0

Thanks for making my point!!

[ICE74129]

You keep ignoring the most important stat again:

Palmer and Hasselback = 6-0

Thanks for making my point!!

No you keep missing the point BENGALS and SEAHAWKS are 6-0 partly in spite of the QB play. They are better TEAMS.

[JD]

Anyone notice how JP is usually always throwing the ball low? He is so afraid of throwing an interception so it often leads to incompletions..

[JD]

I think we just were too cocky coming into the game as a team.. Everyone thought Miami was going to be tough, but we dominated them. NYJ was looked differantly, like a very beatable team. And what happend? They came into our house and *****slapped our mom in the face.

[Michael82]

Losman did NOT have a bad game. But he did not have a great game either. He was okay. He made a bunch of great throws that I have been waiting to see. He also made some nice scrambles to avoid the sacks. But he did turn the ball over 3 times. That hurts, one wasn't his fault. The interception was a poor throw, but the wind also took it too. As for the overall game, JP did just what we needed to do towards the end, he had a solid drive when we were down by 15 and got us back into the game with that touchdown run. Then after we recovered the onside kick, the sky opened up and it started raining hard and getting really windy. You could tell that JP was nervous as hell because this was his first game where he had a chance to get the team down the field and tie it at the end. But for some reason, he came out throwing short passes that were way too high and not good. This is normal for a kid who doesn't even have a full season under his belt. I wasn't surprised with that drive at all. But the drive before that did impress me. I think we'll start to see more of that too.

BTW, I was also impressed with JP's postgame comments. He took a lot of blame and also didn't sound like a little kid. He displayed some confidence and talked like a leader. JP Losman is growing each week and something tells me he is going to be pretty good by the end of the year. I love what I see so far.

[HHURRICANE]

Losman did NOT have a bad game. But he did not have a great game either. He was okay. He made a bunch of great throws that I have been waiting to see. He also made some nice scrambles to avoid the sacks. But he did turn the ball over 3 times. That hurts, one wasn't his fault. The interception was a poor throw, but the wind also took it too. As for the overall game, JP did just what we needed to do towards the end, he had a solid drive when we were down by 15 and got us back into the game with that touchdown run. Then after we recovered the onside kick, the sky opened up and it started raining hard and getting really windy. You could tell that JP was nervous as hell because this was his first game where he had a chance to get the team down the field and tie it at the end. But for some reason, he came out throwing short passes that were way too high and not good. This is normal for a kid who doesn't even have a full season under his belt. I wasn't surprised with that drive at all. But the drive before that did impress me. I think we'll start to see more of that too.

Mikey = Smart Fan

Very fair assessment. It was hard to name my thread "Losman had a not so good game".

[ICE74129]

Mikey = Smart Fan

Very fair assessment. It was hard to name my thread "Losman had a not so good game".

You would have been correct saying he didn't have a complete game. Saying it was a bad one is 100% incorrect.

[Bill Brasky]

you guys are N.U.T.S. NUTS NUTS NUTS.

JP throws for 83 yards, does essentially nothing to win the game other than NOT throw the ball, and he's the next coming of Jim Kelly.

He torches the Jets for a career high, makes some good plays and yes - made a couple bad plays - and you guys are acting like he was the sole reason for the Bills losing this game and he should be run out of town.

Might I point out...

1 - The defense again not being able to come up with a big stop on a 3rd or 4th down against a team with absolutely NO RUNNING GAME... yet Chad Pennington runs them over on a QB sneak? WTF?!

2 - The defense not getting ANY pressure against a rebuilding OLine with a couple rookies after knowing their opponent wasn't going to try and run at all.

3 - Willis again neglecting to do anything unless it involves him carrying the damn ball - I counted at least 2 blocks that he should have had, and could have had, and instead wiffed worse than Barry Bonds in relapse, setting JP up to get masacred worse than a 5 year old bovine in a slaughterhouse.

4 - Yes, JP's one fumble was a back breaker but everyone, including Jet fans, know it wasn't a TD and should have been challenged. Replay or not, he ran it back along the Bills' sideline, you're telling me NOBODY on the sideline was watching him run down to the endzone and didn't see him step out when 72,000 drunk idiots saw it from 100's of feet away?

Sorry, I just don't see how one guy, who threw for over 300 yards and accounted for 2 TD's, was the lone reason for this team losing.

THE TEAM LOST the game, just like they won it last week.

[Risin]

Jfreeman, awesome post brother.

Very rational.

I appreciate it.

[BillsFever21]

I don't know how you teach pocket awareness.

If you watch Grossman, Rivers, Big Ben, et. al., they all look like they have a freaking clue. Even Charlie Frey looks more like an NFL QB at this point.

We're stuck with him this year, but he's no answer. He's the next Rob Johnson.

Put me down for Troy Smith.

Charlie Frye looks better? Him and his 2 TD's and 5 INT's? He is having one hell of a season. I wish we had that kind of production. Clueless.

[Risin]

Charlie Frye looks better? Him and his 2 TD's and 5 INT's? He is having one hell of a season. I wish we had that kind of production. Clueless.


Overall this season, he has looked bad.

Yesterday, I have to admit, he was one of the few bright spots against the Ravens.

With that said, I'd take JP over Frye without blinking. It's not even close.

[feelthepain]

Overall this season, he has looked bad.

Yesterday, I have to admit, he was one of the few bright spots against the Ravens.

With that said, I'd take JP over Frye without blinking. It's not even close.


Charlie Frye looked much more poised against a much better D. IMO.

[Risin]

Charlie Frye looked much more poised against a much better D. IMO.


In comparison to Culpepper?

I agree.

[YardRat]

1 - The defense again not being able to come up with a big stop on a 3rd or 4th down against a team with absolutely NO RUNNING GAME... yet Chad Pennington runs them over on a QB sneak? WTF?!


FYI...The Jets were 4-12 on third down conversions for the game.

FYI Part II...The Bills were 3-12.

FYI The Kicker...The Jets were 3 for 3 in red zone efficiency, 1 for 1 on goal-to-goal. The Bills were 1-4 and 0-1.

FYI The Bottom Line...Jets zero turnovers, Buffalo three.

Game over.

[Bill Brasky]

FYI...The Jets were 4-12 on third down conversions for the game.

FYI Part II...The Bills were 3-12.

FYI The Kicker...The Jets were 3 for 3 in red zone efficiency, 1 for 1 on goal-to-goal. The Bills were 1-4 and 0-1.

FYI The Bottom Line...Jets zero turnovers, Buffalo three.

Game over.
Yeah, but how many of those 4 conversions were nails in the coffin... it doesn't matter if you don't convert them all, but when and where... IE: a 3rd down conversion on the 2nd drive of the game in your own territory is nowhere near as important as one in say the 3rd or 4th QTR on the other teams end of the field. Those are the types of plays that can make or break a game, and it seems that when it matters the most - outside of the Miami game - this defense has blown the goat for over 2 years now...

No excuse for Chad Pennington running a QB sneak for as many yards as he did.

The Bills red zone offense has stunk for years... a tell-tale sign of a bad OL, and now it looks like the D is following suit... not a good sign... especially against a team with virtually no running game.

[Typ0]

JP played very well in a lot of areas...but the three turnovers are what killed us. Anyone pointing the finger at McGahee is mistaken. Yes, that was his block. However, JP still has the football in his hand and he is supposed to be aware of what is going on and not give up the football. He had two other turnovers. Anyone who keeps defending the guy like he did not do anything wrong and should not shoulder a big part of the blame for this loss is just plain wrong. If he had not turned the ball over you guys would be all over his ass about how great he was with the passing game and how that opened up the game and we won...well guess what...he turned the ball over and he blew it. He will have his chances to redeem himself and gain our praise but he is going to have to protect the football in order to get there.

[YardRat]

Yeah, but how many of those 4 conversions were nails in the coffin... it doesn't matter if you don't convert them all, but when and where

Two were on the first TD drive...one in NY's own territory, the other the long RAC by Washington.

One was on the second TD drive...3rd and one from the three.

#4 was on a drive in the middle of the third quarter, in the Jets own territory, and eventually resulted in a punt.

[feelthepain]

In comparison to Culpepper?

I agree.


This thread is about JP.

[Risin]

This thread is about JP.


You're a Dolphins fan.

All things are relative.

;)

[J TES]

Stats are for losers. Who cares what his stats were? The only one that matters is Lose. And Losman yesterday reverted back to his dumb mistakes. He's a one read QB that trys to force things. He doesnt have hardly any comand either. He's constantly whining, banging his fists on the ground, etc.etc. The other players see this crap, and I can't imagine it gooes over well. Losman just can't read a defense. Couldn't if his life depended on it. If his first read is covered he stands there like a deer in headlights. There's just nothing going on between his ears.

[Goobylal]

I don't know what game most of you were watching, but JP was the best QB on the field yesterday. Pennington was able to fire those easy quick passes because there was NO pass rush in his face and then watch his WR's juke the Bills' defenders for more yardage. JP OTOH has his RB whiff on the block that leads to the fumble for a TD and later has his linemen pushed back into him on the INT. And on that last drive, you might not have realized this, but the weather was horrible, not that I thought the Bills were going to get the TD and the 2-point conversion anyway.

Take away Willis' ole block and the game is VERY different. Also some of the cutesy stuff in the play-calling I could have done without, like the fake FG attempt, the naked bootleg that fooled everyone BUT the guy it should have fooled, and calling so many screens when the wind was playing havoc with the ball.

And the ST's, outside of Lindell and the onsides kick, were lousy again, like against NE.

Oh and damn Price for dropping a perfectly placed TD pass early in the game.

[J TES]

No you keep missing the point BENGALS and SEAHAWKS are 6-0 partly in spite of the QB play. They are better TEAMS.
You need to stop with the comparisons to other QB's. You're not making your arguement. Comparing Losman to Big Ben. Big Ben has a Superbowl, almost lost his life a few monthes ago, and two weeks ago had an organ ripped out of his body. Spare us that comparison. Comparing Palmer to Losman? Are you frigin kidding me? Joke right? Has to be. Here's a stat for you 2 and 9. Thats Losman's record as a QB. And dont give me this crap that Hasselback, Palmer and Big Ben have winning records cause they play on good teams. There teams win in spite of them. Psssshhhhh. You ever think that part of the reason that Losman has played on poor teams has something/alot to do with Losman? Probably not, you'll just come up with a reason as to why Losman has thrown every pick, fumbled every ball, and made every poor decision.

[J TES]

I don't know what game most of you were watching, but JP was the best QB on the field yesterday. Pennington was able to fire those easy quick passes because there was NO pass rush in his face and then watch his WR's juke the Bills' defenders for more yardage. JP OTOH has his RB whiff on the block that leads to the fumble for a TD and later has his linemen pushed back into him on the INT. And on that last drive, you might not have realized this, but the weather was horrible, not that I thought the Bills were going to get the TD and the 2-point conversion anyway.

Take away Willis' ole block and the game is VERY different. Also some of the cutesy stuff in the play-calling I could have done without, like the fake FG attempt, the naked bootleg that fooled everyone BUT the guy it should have fooled, and calling so many screens when the wind was playing havoc with the ball.

And the ST's, outside of Lindell and the onsides kick, were lousy again, like against NE.

Oh and damn Price for dropping a perfectly placed TD pass early in the game. You have got to be kidding me?
There's a reason that Pennington was able to find the underneath recievers, he's a smart QB. Losman isn't. Period

[Goobylal]

You have got to be kidding me?
There's a reason that Pennington was able to find the underneath recievers, he's a smart QB. Losman isn't. Period
LOL! JP couldn't find underneath receivers, yet he passed for over 300 yards? What was he throwing, deep outs all game?

And the Bills weren't playing 3-step drop like the Jets were. Still take away Willis' HORRIBLE effort to block Rhodes on the sack for a fumble and TD (shoulda challenged that play since Hobson was OOB at the 3 yard line), which was THE turning point of the game, and the Bills likely come out victorious, 1st sack/fumble and INT notwithstanding.

[Michael82]

LOL! JP couldn't find underneath receivers, yet he passed for over 300 yards? What was he throwing, deep outs all game?

And the Bills weren't playing 3-step drop like the Jets were. Still take away Willis' HORRIBLE effort to block Rhodes on the sack for a fumble and TD (shoulda challenged that play since Hobson was OOB at the 3 yard line), which was THE turning point of the game, and the Bills likely come out victorious, 1st sack/fumble and INT notwithstanding.
:bf1:

[ICE74129]

Stats are for losers. Who cares what his stats were? The only one that matters is Lose. And Losman yesterday reverted back to his dumb mistakes. He's a one read QB that trys to force things. He doesnt have hardly any comand either. He's constantly whining, banging his fists on the ground, etc.etc. The other players see this crap, and I can't imagine it gooes over well. Losman just can't read a defense. Couldn't if his life depended on it. If his first read is covered he stands there like a deer in headlights. There's just nothing going on between his ears.

This is about the stupidest post I have read...and that is saying something

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Losman had decent stats but a bad game. PERIOD. Don't sugar coat it or BS me. With that said he is the starter and will be next year and beyond.

Losman is our future wether you like it or not. There are no other vet's that would be any better unless you want to see Jake Plummer in a Bills uniform. Brady Quinn, who were not going to be in a position to get anyway, would be another 2-3 year project. The coaching staff, who did an excellent job of managing JP in Miami, did a horrible job this week. Horrible. The kid needs to be babysat until he is thinking about the D and not his mechanics. It will come but everyone, including me, needs to be patient.

We also have to start being objective around here. JP had alot to do with us losing this game. If we are to have credibility than we have to admit when JP plays poorly. He threw some really bad passes. The 2 crappy deep balls and the consecutive crappy 3 yarders to Willis when we had a chance to drive for a tie come to mind.

He didn't play well so admit it, accept it, and realize that he's our QB for a while.

I will agree that JP did not play as well as he could have and as he needed to. He did some good things, but also made some critical mistakes that contributed to the loss. I don't know that I would go so far as to say that he was "bad"--because he did some very good things--but the bad things that he did--the INT, not taking care of the ball on the first fumble, and losing his focus and letting his footwork get fouled up--offset those things. I may disagree with you on how "bad" I think JP played--I would probably give him a C+--but that's a matter of degree: in the end, he played well at times but not well enough to win and made some critical mistakes that helped the opposition.

But, whatever our disagreement on that point, you are absolutely correct about JP being the Bills starting QB, that he will be their starting QB for awhile at the very least, and that we all need to be patient with him. Fans tend to want results immediately, but that's not the way that it generally works with young QBs, who take time to develop. JP has shown that he has the ability--that's one thing that he definitely displayed in this game on the positive side--and that he not only has the ability to improve, but that he is improving step-by-step, even if those are baby-steps at times. With his physical ability and the improvement that he has shown thus far, he is not the kind of player that an NFL team should give up on and, unless he regresses terribly as the season progresses, the Bills won't give up on him. If you listen to Dick Jauron, he constantly refers to Losman as being a young QB who still has a lot to learn, etc.--that's hardly the way that a HC refers to a guy that he does not feel has a good future with the team. So, if things continue as they have, JP will be with the Bills and we will have to accept that and be patient with him as he develops.

Finally, as you correctly pointed out, the alternatives to JP are hardly that enticing. Anyone who thinks that Brady Quinn or any rookie QB is going to step in and lead this Bills team to a SB is dreaming: the Bills need to be upgraded at too many positions to carry a rookie QB to a SB and no matter how good a rookie is, unless his team can carry him the way that the Pittsburgh defense and running game carried Roethlisberger his rookie year, it is extremely difficult for any rookie to step in and lead his team to the playoffs. The Bills are not going to have a shot at Quinn or Brian Brohm, in all likelihood, and it will take 2-3 years for either of those QBs to be ready to lead a NFL team to the playoffs. Add to that the fact that Marv Levy is philosophically opposed to the idea of drafting a QB at the top of the first round of the draft to come in and be the "saviour" of a NFL team and the odds of the Bills taking either of those QBs in the next draft is next to nil unless something serious happens to Losman this season. Which means that the alternative to Losman is likely to be Jake Plummer. Yeah, Jake Plummer. Think about that for a second. Every criticism that can be leveled at JP Losman at this stage of his career has already been applied to Jake Plummer. The difference is that Jake Plummer is basically a finished product now, while JP Losman is still learning and developing and has a stronger arm. Plummer has not been able to avoid making the critical mistake despite playing on a team with one of the best running games in the NFL, an established # 1 WR in Rod Smith, an experienced offensive line that is arguably one of the best in the NFL, and a top defense in one of the most difficult stadiums for visitors to come to in the league. At this stage it Plummer may appear to be an upgrade over Losman, but it is arguable that this would still be the case two years from now given the fact that Plummer is not going to get appreciably better than he is right now and Losman is still improving.

No one on the Bills had a good game on Sunday against the Jets, including JP, the coaching staff, the defense and the special teams. And all of them contributed to the team losing. JP played his part in helping to lose the game with his mistakes, but you hit the nail on the head when you said that he is the Bills' starting QB and will be for awhile and we all need to be patient while he continues to develop.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

JP played very well in a lot of areas...but the three turnovers are what killed us. Anyone pointing the finger at McGahee is mistaken. Yes, that was his block. However, JP still has the football in his hand and he is supposed to be aware of what is going on and not give up the football. He had two other turnovers. Anyone who keeps defending the guy like he did not do anything wrong and should not shoulder a big part of the blame for this loss is just plain wrong. If he had not turned the ball over you guys would be all over his ass about how great he was with the passing game and how that opened up the game and we won...well guess what...he turned the ball over and he blew it. He will have his chances to redeem himself and gain our praise but he is going to have to protect the football in order to get there.

I'm not excusing JP for the mistakes that he made. The INT was bad: regardless of whether the ball slipped out of his hands or not, he threw the ball into double-coverage, which he should not have been doing. And, he should have gotten the ball out quicker on the first fumble--even thoguh someone missed a block on Rhodes. Also, he let his emotions get to him late in the game and, as a result, let his footwork get all loused up, which was why he was so inaccurate with his throws (he does have to learn how to keep his emotions under control enough that he does not allow that to mess up his mechanics!). So, I'm not saying that he did not make mistakes or did not contribute to the loss with the mistakes that he made.

But, if you watch the replay on the second fumble, you will see that JP did feel the pressure coming and stepped up to throw the ball right before he got hit. He was a fraction of a second from releasing the ball when he was hit. Any kind of a block by Willis on that play at all and the ball was out of there. ICE is correct in saying that a QB has to be able to count on his RB at least getting a chip on the blitzer on that play--that is the way that the play is supposed to be run: the RB is responsible for that pass-rusher. Period. And, given the fact that JP stepped up to throw, the fault on that play is not his. ICE and I are not the only ones who are saying this: several commentators, including Mike Francesa on his local TV show here in NYC on Sunday night, have laid the blame for the fumble on that play on Willis and not on Losman.

So, let me say this again, JP made his share of mistakes that contributed to the Bills losing to the Jets. But, the fumble that Hobson returned for the TD was not one of them. That fumble resulted from a missed block by Willis. And, since JP stepped up to avoid the pressure before he got hit, he could not have been asked to do more there--taking the ball down and accepting a sack there was not an option, JP had to be able to count on Willis to give him that fraction of a second that he needed to release the ball there and pulling the ball down risks a fumble there as well. It's a bang-bang play that went against the Bills because Willis barely got a hand on Rhodes' shoulder pad and did not come close to doing what he was supposed to do and has to be expected to do on that play.

[HHURRICANE]

[quote=LifetimeBillsFan]Finally, as you correctly pointed out, the alternatives to JP are hardly that enticing. Anyone who thinks that Brady Quinn or any rookie QB is going to step in and lead this Bills team to a SB is dreaming:/quote]

Thanks for reading my entire post. This thread would have not lasted as long if people had read the whole thing and not been so emotional. It is important to be objective. Most people are giving JP a grade of a C or C+. If one of my kids came home with that it woud be considered a "bad grade". As you said it is degrees of separation.

[Goobylal]

I'm not excusing JP for the mistakes that he made. The INT was bad: regardless of whether the ball slipped out of his hands or not, he threw the ball into double-coverage, which he should not have been doing.
JP's hand was hit as he released the ball AND he wasn't able to step-into his throw, and the wind made it a dying quail. I'm betting it was a long toss OVER double-coverage where the WR would have only had a play on it.

[Jimbuktu]

Equal parts EXCITING and IDIOTIC

Isn't this what we EXPECTED going into the season? So why are we all up in arms? What was this, Losman's 12th start in the NFL? Newsflash, unless you're driving a Ferrari of a team (a la Big Ben in 2004), a young quarterback is not going to rack up the wins. And right now, Losman is driving a Camry or something equally pedestrian.

Exciting and Idiotic. That's exactly what we expected and saw on Sunday. All this excitement over sticking with the Pats and then beating the Dolphins (both obviously overrated teams) ****ed with our heads.

Despite the stupidity at times, JP is making progress. That's what I wanted to see this year, and that's what we are seeing.

Let's all relax. We bought the ticket, now it's time to take the ride.

[Typ0]

I'm not excusing JP for the mistakes that he made. The INT was bad: regardless of whether the ball slipped out of his hands or not, he threw the ball into double-coverage, which he should not have been doing. And, he should have gotten the ball out quicker on the first fumble--even thoguh someone missed a block on Rhodes. Also, he let his emotions get to him late in the game and, as a result, let his footwork get all loused up, which was why he was so inaccurate with his throws (he does have to learn how to keep his emotions under control enough that he does not allow that to mess up his mechanics!). So, I'm not saying that he did not make mistakes or did not contribute to the loss with the mistakes that he made.

But, if you watch the replay on the second fumble, you will see that JP did feel the pressure coming and stepped up to throw the ball right before he got hit. He was a fraction of a second from releasing the ball when he was hit. Any kind of a block by Willis on that play at all and the ball was out of there. ICE is correct in saying that a QB has to be able to count on his RB at least getting a chip on the blitzer on that play--that is the way that the play is supposed to be run: the RB is responsible for that pass-rusher. Period. And, given the fact that JP stepped up to throw, the fault on that play is not his. ICE and I are not the only ones who are saying this: several commentators, including Mike Francesa on his local TV show here in NYC on Sunday night, have laid the blame for the fumble on that play on Willis and not on Losman.

So, let me say this again, JP made his share of mistakes that contributed to the Bills losing to the Jets. But, the fumble that Hobson returned for the TD was not one of them. That fumble resulted from a missed block by Willis. And, since JP stepped up to avoid the pressure before he got hit, he could not have been asked to do more there--taking the ball down and accepting a sack there was not an option, JP had to be able to count on Willis to give him that fraction of a second that he needed to release the ball there and pulling the ball down risks a fumble there as well. It's a bang-bang play that went against the Bills because Willis barely got a hand on Rhodes' shoulder pad and did not come close to doing what he was supposed to do and has to be expected to do on that play.


you're right. WM should have given him time. But he didn't and the burden of that falls on the QB. Plus, three long winded paragraphs about how that one fumble wasn't JPs fault...thanks for throwing in a sentence or two about the screw up turnovers that clearly were his fault. You guys are spending too much time defending him. You don't have to. There are a lot of fans out there that have already made up their minds. They want to see JP Losman "unleashed" so we can tell if we have a real QB. Well DUH. He's clearly not ready for that yet so doing it is setting him up for failure and then we are back to square one. I'd really like to see him start putting it together in a few weeks because the kid really has some skills that can win games. The problem that really scares me with him is his head...it looks to me like his brain is scrambling too much. He's overthinking. He's got to get over that and relax. If he's going to be a QB he's got to be in strict control at all times.

[Goobylal]

you're right. WM should have given him time. But he didn't and the burden of that falls on the QB. Plus, three long winded paragraphs about how that one fumble wasn't JPs fault...thanks for throwing in a sentence or two about the screw up turnovers that clearly were his fault. You guys are spending too much time defending him. You don't have to. There are a lot of fans out there that have already made up their minds. They want to see JP Losman "unleashed" so we can tell if we have a real QB. Well DUH. He's clearly not ready for that yet so doing it is setting him up for failure and then we are back to square one. I'd really like to see him start putting it together in a few weeks because the kid really has some skills that can win games. The problem that really scares me with him is his head...it looks to me like his brain is scrambling too much. He's overthinking. He's got to get over that and relax. If he's going to be a QB he's got to be in strict control at all times.
JP's ready to be unleashed. The problem is that any unleashable QB needs a semblance of a blocking RB because sometimes blitzers will get by an OL. Willis blew the block, plain and simple, and that falls on him and HIM alone.

[Typ0]

JP's ready to be unleashed. The problem is that any unleashable QB needs a semblance of a blocking RB because sometimes blitzers will get by an OL. Willis blew the block, plain and simple, and that falls on him and HIM alone.

he's not ready. He doesn't know what's happening on the whole field most of the time. He throws a great ball but he's predictable where he throws it. He'll be ready to do his thing when he understands the NFL game better. Just unleashing him is going to slow down his progression into knowing the game the way he needs to because he's going to fall into his strenghts and fail to work on his weaknesses.

[Goobylal]

He's predictable? He's thrown for better than 60% and has 1 INT on the year. If he were "predictable," he'd be getting picked-off left and right.

[ICE74129]

[quote=LifetimeBillsFan]Finally, as you correctly pointed out, the alternatives to JP are hardly that enticing. Anyone who thinks that Brady Quinn or any rookie QB is going to step in and lead this Bills team to a SB is dreaming:/quote]

Thanks for reading my entire post. This thread would have not lasted as long if people had read the whole thing and not been so emotional. It is important to be objective. Most people are giving JP a grade of a C or C+. If one of my kids came home with that it woud be considered a "bad grade". As you said it is degrees of separation.

Its this long because we know you aren't objective. He didn't have a bad game and until you understand this, I guess the thread goes on

[ScottLawrence]

This is about the stupidest post I have read...and that is saying something

Why don't you explain why its the stupidest post you've ever read.

He makes a good point.

As of now, Losman struggles to read defenses past his first option.

[ScottLawrence]

You need to stop with the comparisons to other QB's. You're not making your arguement. Comparing Losman to Big Ben. Big Ben has a Superbowl, almost lost his life a few monthes ago, and two weeks ago had an organ ripped out of his body. Spare us that comparison. Comparing Palmer to Losman? Are you frigin kidding me? Joke right? Has to be. Here's a stat for you 2 and 9. Thats Losman's record as a QB. And dont give me this crap that Hasselback, Palmer and Big Ben have winning records cause they play on good teams. There teams win in spite of them. Psssshhhhh. You ever think that part of the reason that Losman has played on poor teams has something/alot to do with Losman? Probably not, you'll just come up with a reason as to why Losman has thrown every pick, fumbled every ball, and made every poor decision.

I'd like to see ICE try and respond to this.

the only stat that matter is Losmans record, 2-9 as a starter....But he has nothing to do with that record, hes playing for a bad team according to ICE.

Yet the same Kelly Holcomb sitting on the bench went 4-4 as a starter last year, but according to ICE, we can't win games with Holcomb, but with Losman we can?

Doesn't make much sense to me.

I realize Losmans young, and hes still learning, and hes certainly improved from last year, but J TES makes the same points I've been saying since last year.

Losman still struggles to look past his first option, his pocket awarness is still not there, and he still is a bit immature.

Its only his 11th game starting, but those are the facts, and you choose to ignore them.

[The_Philster]

That was last year, Scott. Holcomb was mediocre at best last year and is even worse this year. Plus there's no upside with a mediocre QB with diminishing skills.

[Typ0]

That was last year, Scott. Holcomb was mediocre at best last year and is even worse this year. Plus there's no upside with a mediocre QB with diminishing skills.


funny...I have yet to see him take a snap in a real game to say something like he's worse this year. What about Nall? If he played it would be his fault we lost and time to put JP in...but if JP turns a game over it's because he's on a bad team.

[Goobylal]

If completing 59% of his passes, throwing for 328 yards, a TD and an INT, and completing passes to 6 different receivers is "struggl[ing] to read defenses past his first option," then I hope he struggles a LOT. Although I DO hope he gets a RB who can consistently pickup a blitz.

And stop it with the Holcomb talk. His career as a starter is over. Well maybe not. There's Tampa Bay.

[ScottLawrence]

That was last year, Scott. Holcomb was mediocre at best last year and is even worse this year. Plus there's no upside with a mediocre QB with diminishing skills.

Explain to me how Holcomb is worse this year?


Because of some Bull **** competition in traing camp?

No, Jaurn/Levy were going with Losman from the start, because Levy didn't think this team was going anywhere, and thought it was the year to see if Losman can play in this league.

I disagree with it, but I see Levy's logic.

Holcomb was hands down the better quarterback at the end of last year.....The chances of Losman improving that much, to be better then Holcomb after the 2005season into training camp of 2006 is a lot to ask for.

Losman certainly has the potential to be better then Holcomb, but I don't care what anyone says, Holcomb still makes the better decisions, makes better reads, and is still the better overall QUARTERBACK.

Levy fooled the fans in saying it was a QB competition, he was going with Losman from the beginning.

[The_Philster]

funny...I have yet to see him take a snap in a real game to say something like he's worse this year. What about Nall? If he played it would be his fault we lost and time to put JP in...but if JP turns a game over it's because he's on a bad team.
JP won the job based on the preseason. His decision-making was what they were looking at more than anything else. Holcomb's decision-making in the preseason was pathetic to say the least...and he was making dumb decisions last season as well.
As far as Nall getting blame and JP absolved...I'm sure there will always be some people with double standards...but it's asinine to assume that everyone will use that double standard...if that's what you're implying

and Scott...you obviously didn't watch any camp or preseason if you can't see how Holcomb's worse than he was last year. I expected little out of him to be honest...and he couldn't even live up to the meager expectations I had for him....he was actually worse than I expected him to be.

[Goobylal]

Holcomb was hands down the better quarterback at the end of last year.....
You base this off of Holcombs wondrous 4 INT performance against the lowly Jets?


Losman certainly has the potential to be better then Holcomb, but I don't care what anyone says, Holcomb still makes the better decisions, makes better reads, and is still the better overall QUARTERBACK.
The only thing Holcomb had over JP was experience. But that can only take you so far with a guy like Holcomb. Once the season was out of reach last year, JP should have been the starter PERIOD. Holcomb is a career backup.

Levy fooled the fans in saying it was a QB competition, he was going with Losman from the beginning.
It was an open competition and Holcomb lost, and lost BADLY.

[BAM]

Praise Jesus that Losman beat out Holcomb for the starting QB job this season.

[ScottLawrence]

JP won the job based on the preseason. His decision-making was what they were looking at more than anything else. Holcomb's decision-making in the preseason was pathetic to say the least...and he was making dumb decisions last season as well.
As far as Nall getting blame and JP absolved...I'm sure there will always be some people with double standards...but it's asinine to assume that everyone will use that double standard...if that's what you're implying


9/13 125 yards 1 INT.

Explain how that is pathetic decision-making?

[The_Philster]

9/13 125 yards 1 INT.

Explain how that is pathetic decision-making?
I don't go by stats...and neither do the coaches. Why do you think they have game film? Its so they can look at what happened on each play

[Typ0]

JP won the job based on the preseason. His decision-making was what they were looking at more than anything else. Holcomb's decision-making in the preseason was pathetic to say the least...and he was making dumb decisions last season as well.
As far as Nall getting blame and JP absolved...I'm sure there will always be some people with double standards...but it's asinine to assume that everyone will use that double standard...if that's what you're implying

and Scott...you obviously didn't watch any camp or preseason if you can't see how Holcomb's worse than he was last year. I expected little out of him to be honest...and he couldn't even live up to the meager expectations I had for him....he was actually worse than I expected him to be.


his decision making? Tell me, is it the fumbles, interceptions or sacks he takes what leads you to believe his decision making was so good?

[Typ0]

I'm sorry guys...I don't want KH in there either. I am very excited about some things I see in JP Lossman...but let's be realistic. He's a turnover machine at this point. He doesn't know enough to stay the hell out of the endzone when he's on the 8 yard line and not take a sack. He's dropped the snap for christ sakes...the guy is having some serious issues out there but according to ICE he's "well on his way to being Joe Montana".

[ScottLawrence]

Theres obviously no winning with a majority on this board.

Its either love Losman, or get no respect.

Not objective at all when it comes to Losman.

[Inetpub]

This post is SERIOUSLY the funniest because I see it after every game Losman plays. Losman had a bad game. Thats every game buddies!

[The_Philster]

It's not so much that his decision-making is great...there's still some problems he needs to keep working on but compared to the competition he had, he was the best.
Anyway, you throw those bad plays out there rather quickly...tell me, what happened on each fumble, sack, interception? Not only does it take a team to win or lose a game, but it takes a group of players working together to make a play work. You can't just look at the number of interceptions a guy has and say whether he's making good decisions or not...did the WR make the right blitz adjustment or run the right route? Was the ball deflected in any way? Yes, some picks are mostly on the QB...but not all of them by any means. That's why stats are for hose who don't know wat they're watching...or for Madden/fantasy...game film...knowing what you're watching is the only way to know anything concrete at all.

[The_Philster]

Theres obviously no winning with a majority on this board.

Its either love Losman, or get no respect.

Not objective at all when it comes to Losman.
you should know all about that no objectivity thing...you seem to have a personal hatred of Losman and a personal love of Holcomb...I've rarely seen any objectivity out of you...I have seen it a little but like I said, rarely. :peace:

[Goobylal]

So let me get this straight; people are blaming JP for ALL of the turnovers? Even though Jauron said that Willis was responsible for the 2nd sack, and (from what I saw) JP's arm was his as he was throwing the ball, leading to the INT? If you want to say that JP made some mistakes, yes he did. But he wasn't the reason the Bills lost, and given the conditions (rain and 35 MPH winds), I think he played exceptionally. Hell even the Jets' Kerry Rhodes, who sacked and forced fumbles twice, asked if that was JP or Jim Kelly back there.

[ScottLawrence]

you should know all about that no objectivity thing...you seem to have a personal hatred of Losman and a personal love of Holcomb...I've rarely seen any objectivity out of you...I have seen it a little but like I said, rarely. :peace:

I find myself objective.

I said Losman has a great arm, solid accuracy(one of the things improved upon from last year), and great athletic ability.

He just doesn't look, or play like a quarterback......yet, I don't think you'll see Jauron pull Losman at all this season, so this is his defining year.

[jmb1099]

I'm sorry guys...I don't want KH in there either. I am very excited about some things I see in JP Lossman...but let's be realistic. He's a turnover machine at this point. He doesn't know enough to stay the hell out of the endzone when he's on the 8 yard line and not take a sack. He's dropped the snap for christ sakes...the guy is having some serious issues out there but according to ICE he's "well on his way to being Joe Montana".
Holy cow he was in the end zone one time and you say he doesn't know how to stay out out of it? Come on I hear what your saying with the rest of it, but its no different than we all, almost all, talked about before the season began: He will be better than last year but still make mistakes as he progresses to get better.

Scott, I don't know why but I am going to try once to reason with you and if it doesn't work than that will be the last time so here goes:
Losman played a part in the Bills loss on sunday as did the rest of the team. He made mistakes, so did the linebacking corps and if you don't think so why did McCargo have to run down plays that went past the line of scrimmage? It was nice to hear his number called, but where were the linebackers? The dline also played a part in the loss, Pennigton was hardly even pressured let alone sacked. The dbacks played a part in the loss, how many times can one qb throw to the same guy successfully I mean at some point you'd think Clements would say to himself Chad is throwing to coles short so I better bump him or play him tight.
The receivers played a part in the loss, their were dropped passes and lazy routes
The rb played a part in the loss with missed blitzes and failures to punch the ball in the endzone when it was close
The oline played a part in the loss by allowing defenders to run right past them.
So for you to say Losman is responsible for the loss is correct, but so is the rest of the team, it is after all a team game. I agree Losman needs to protect the ball better, no question, and his decision making still needs to improve, but it has since last year and will continue to.
Now for those of you wanting a qb controversy get over it, there isn't one and there won't be one. With the wind and the rain we had sunday Holcomb would have been lucky to have passed for 15 yards with multiple fumbles interceptions and sacks, sorry, its just the way it is.

[Typ0]

So let me get this straight; people are blaming JP for ALL of the turnovers? Even though Jauron said that Willis was responsible for the 2nd sack, and (from what I saw) JP's arm was his as he was throwing the ball, leading to the INT? If you want to say that JP made some mistakes, yes he did. But he wasn't the reason the Bills lost, and given the conditions (rain and 35 MPH winds), I think he played exceptionally. Hell even the Jets' Kerry Rhodes, who sacked and forced fumbles twice, asked if that was JP or Jim Kelly back there.

I just want to know why there is about ten encyclopedia volumes written on these boards by the losman butt lickers about how ONE of the fumbles was WM fault. What about the other turnovers? JP Losman is turning the ball over. End of discussion.

[Inetpub]

Originally Posted by ScottLawrence
Theres obviously no winning with a majority on this board.

Its either love Losman, or get no respect.

Not objective at all when it comes to Losman.


I totally agree with you. To get respect on this board you have to be a JP nuthugger. Nuthugging is a sport here. Whoever nuthugs the most wins.

And from now on, I am blaming JP LOSERMAN for EVERYTHING. HE IS THE QB. If he cant lead us to wins, dont expect the rest of the offense/defense to. You guys expect the defence to be amazing and the special teams to be NFLs best and a RB that will lead you to the superbowl but your ok with a brainless QB. Go figure.

In old words of wisdom, its always the leaders fault. Its JPs job to lead. If he cant do that, we are doomed. When your QB gets frustrated on the sidelines, thats a BAD sign. Playing FRUSTRATED will never do the team better.

In closing, quit the nuthugging and criticize the fool. If JP was reading this you guys seriously think he'd want to read everything he did was awesome? Your giving the guy false hopes!! I highly doubt Jauron is in the lockerroom praising JP if he cant win. Hes probably working on mechanics and critiqueing him on EVERYTHING he does. Lets do the same here. Stop abusing people who want to post a criticism and maybe everyone will learn something.

[Typ0]

The funny thing is you have to stop yourself from hating on JP just because you are fed up with the buttlickers.

[Goobylal]

Actually the funny thing is criticizing ONE person for losses, or giving one person the credit for wins. It's a team game. Blaming one person is naivety.

And the simple fact Typ0 is that Willis blew the block on the 2nd blitz by Rhodes. He had a shot to AT LEAST slow him down, but did an "ole" move. The first blitz by Rhodes was well-disguised and he had a free path to JP, hit JP when his arm was extended, and it is near IMPOSSIBLE not to fumble in that situation. Had JP not been about to throw the ball, he likely doesn't fumble, as he didn't on the 6 previous sacks he's taken in the 2 previous games. And in the wet conditions, it makes holding onto the ball even harder. And again WRT the INT, his arm is impeded from fully following-through by a Jets defender's hand.

The bottom line is that JP was one of the few bright spots on offense that day. Throwing for close to 60% and 328 yards in GOOD conditions is impressive, much less wet conditions and 35 MPH winds. The Jets just got some good fortune with their turnovers. Had the Bills' defense got ANY sort of pressure on Pennington, or had Willis made that block, the Bills likely win.