View Full Version : Jp fumbles and all of a sudden he's not the right qb for this team?
Carson Palmer fumbled 3 times. Luckily for him his teammates were able to recover the ball twice. I'm not comparing jp to carson on the same level, but i'm just trying to show that even though palmer fumbled three times, people don't want him benched for that. I don't see jp having fumbling problem. It just happens sometimes.
gr8slayer
09-27-2006, 09:33 AM
Kelly Holcomb fumbles and suddenly he ****s gold.
What does holcomb have to do with this again?
gr8slayer
09-27-2006, 09:39 AM
What does holcomb have to do with this again?
You didnt know? He was conceived in the same bed as Teddy Bruschi which makes im half man, half god. He can lead the Bills to the promised land. Kelly Holcomb vs. the world = Kelly Holcomb.
:pray: Kelly Holcomb :pray:
I think he's put the ball on the ground like that 5 times in 3 games. One of the first snaps he took this season he dropped on the ground. Not saying he's not the right guy for us. Not saying he's got of fumbling problem. But also not saying he doesn't have a fumbling problem. This needs to be corrected immediately.
gr8slayer
09-27-2006, 09:42 AM
I think he's put the ball on the ground like that 5 times in 3 games. One of the first snaps he took this season he dropped on the ground. Not saying he's not the right guy for us. Not saying he's got of fumbling problem. But also not saying he doesn't have a fumbling problem. This needs to be corrected immediately.
It can be corrected right now, KELLY KELLY KELLY. Go get 'em tiger.
You didnt know? He was conceived in the same bed as Teddy Bruschi which makes im half man, half god. He can lead the Bills to the promised land. Kelly Holcomb vs. the world = Kelly Holcomb.
:pray: Kelly Holcomb :pray:
You're right. Holcomb is that much a superior qb and talented qb than jp. :rolleyes:
gr8slayer
09-27-2006, 09:50 AM
You're right. Holcomb is that much a superior qb and talented qb than jp. :rolleyes:
Not superior QB, GOD
ICE74129
09-27-2006, 10:26 AM
Not superior QB, GOD GR8 I think some are missing the sarcasm.
okay. for a moment there I thought g8 was a bitter holcomb fan.
DynaPaul
09-27-2006, 10:53 AM
Most QBs fumble when hit blindly like that. That's why left tackles are so important.
Coach Sal
09-27-2006, 11:01 AM
It's not that he has a "fumbling problem." He's just a little too careless with the football at times. And I'm not talking about getting hit blindly from behind - those things will happen. I'm talking about a few times the ball either came out or "almost" came out at the snap or as he's moving. It comes from trying to do everything so quickly and not settling himself down.
He's made a lot of strides in this regard, but he still has to find a way to take better care of the football. It's something that's there, but I'm not overly-concerned about it right now.
It's not that he has a "fumbling problem." He's just a little too careless with the football at times. And I'm not talking about getting hit blindly from behind - those things will happen. I'm talking about a few times the ball either came out or "almost" came out at the snap or as he's moving. It comes from trying to do everything so quickly and not settling himself down.
He's made a lot of strides in this regard, but he still has to find a way to take better care of the football. It's something that's there, but I'm not overly-concerned about it right now.
Cool show you have there. I enjoyed the most recent one you did. :up:
OpIv37
09-27-2006, 11:17 AM
JP had fumbling problems in one of the preseason games too. I don't think it means he needs to be benched, but it does mean that he needs to learn to protect the ball better. Our OL isn't very good and if he can't feel the pressure and know when to either tuck the ball and take the sack or run the hell out of there, it's going to be a VERY long season.
FlyingDutchman
09-27-2006, 11:20 AM
He was blindsided on two of the fumbles, he just has to get a better presence.
gr8slayer
09-27-2006, 11:22 AM
GR8 I think some are missing the sarcasm.
I would expect that from Kerr. He thinks that Owens is a great teammate.
Inetpub
09-27-2006, 11:27 AM
I like the "All of the sudden hes not the right QB for this team" part. I dont think its all of the sudden when you gotta battle 2 backups for the job. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, its a DUCK. JP is a duck.
DUCK DUCK DUCK.
if you didnt get it, DUCK Losman cant win many games (wait his 2 wins vs bottom dwellers are because of a good defensive days).
I would expect that from Kerr. He thinks that Owens is a great teammate.
yet owens has done none of the things you said he did. That must make your post full of ****.
gr8slayer
09-27-2006, 12:47 PM
yet owens has done none of the things you said he did. That must make your post full of ****.
Do you live in Dallas? Do you think that ESPN catches everything that goes on here in Dallas? Have you ever seen T.O. go into the ghetto and charge children $80 per autograph? Have you ever met the guy in person? Do you listen to his radio show every Friday where he bashes his fellow teammates.
You can think all you want and live in your fantasy world but I live here and see the guy on an almost weekly basis, I get to see him make an ass out of himself every chance he gets.
Do you live in Dallas? Do you think that ESPN catches everything that goes on here in Dallas? Have you ever seen T.O. go into the ghetto and charge children $80 per autograph? Have you ever met the guy in person? Do you listen to his radio show every Friday where he bashes his fellow teammates.
You can think all you want and live in your fantasy world but I live here and see the guy on an almost weekly basis, I get to see him make an ass out of himself every chance he gets.
Read the link I posted. It's not from espn. It's from your local area buddy-dallas morning news. Again, none of the stuff you mentioned is in it, and that's coming from the local news you talk about.
justasportsfan
09-27-2006, 03:05 PM
JP's fumbling problem stems from him having to learn to stay in the pocket longer than he's used to. At camp , since the D players weren't allowed to sack him they would either stop dead on their tracks or run by past him knowing it was a "would be" sack while JP still had to finish the play by attempting a throw as required by Fairchild in order to make JP a pocket passer. This IMO created a bad habbit of not taking care of the ball. There was no sense of urgency in JP's part to get rid of the ball quickly because the D wasn't allowed to sack him anyways. He was also told to wait play to develop.
This is part of the growing pains we will have to go through by trying to change JP into a pocket passer. This will continue until our OL holds up or JP learns who to get rid of the ball quickly. Until then Royals or Everrett will be in there protecting JP and you won't see alot of TE catches.
IMO , Jauron should get a few pages from BB slant patterns or the jets so that JP gets rid of that ball fast. We have speedy wrs with sure hands who can pull it off.
JP's fumbling problem from him staying in the pocket longer than he's used to. At camp , since the D players weren't allowed to sack him they would either stop dead on their tracks or run by past him knowing it was a "would be" sack while JP still had to finish the play by attempting a throw as required by Fairchild in order to make JP a pocket passer. This IMO created a bad habbit of not taking care of the ball. There was no sense of urgency in JP's part because the D wasn't allowed to sack him anyways.
This is part of the growing pains we will have to go through by trying to change JP into a pocket passer. This will continue until our OL holds up or JP learns who to get rid of the ball quickly. Until then Royals or Everrett will be in there protecting JP and you won't see alot of TE catches.
IMO , Jauron should get a few pages from BB slant patterns or the jets so that JP gets rid of that ball fast. We have speedy wrs with sure hands who can pull it off.
he's dropped the ball in other ways too. We aren't trying to turn him into a pocket passer either we just don't want him to be so quick to run out of the pocket all the time like he was doing last year. Hence we are telling him to stay in the pocket and gain momentum there. This will be the quickest path to his gaining some equilibrium about when to run around and when not to.
justasportsfan
09-27-2006, 03:19 PM
he's dropped the ball in other ways too. We aren't trying to turn him into a pocket passer either we just don't want him to be so quick to run out of the pocket all the time like he was doing last year. Hence we are telling him to stay in the pocket and gain momentum there. This will be the quickest path to his gaining some equilibrium about when to run around and when not to.
I wasn't talking about the snaps. I was talking about why he tends to drop the ball when he get's hit. It wasn't a problem last year because he was already scrambling after a few seconds.
Yes, he is being taught to be a pocket passer. Fairchild has been training him that way. I don't even remember him scramble all throughout camp. It's even evident so far if you compare him to last year.
It was even stated yesterday(radio) that "team sources" say that he has been told not to scramble because The last thing the team needs is for him to delay his learning process if he get's hurt trying to scramble especially since does not know how to slide properly.
MarvLevy
09-27-2006, 03:59 PM
F THAT! I AM NOT SCARED TO SAY IT!
Losman is NOT the right QB for this team! ...or ANY team for that matter. He is not an NFL starting QB. PERIOD! He is not that good, nor do I see potential for him to be..and he is too small. SORRY. It's my opinion and I have felt like that from day one. I have tried giving him a chance, but I am not doing that anymore.
Until this team DRAFTS a new QB and stops hiring recycled coaches, this team WILL NOT WIN...PERIOD.
THIS WILL ALWAYS BE MY TEAM, but the product sucks right now.
I wasn't talking about the snaps. I was talking about why he tends to drop the ball when he get's hit. It wasn't a problem last year because he was already scrambling after a few seconds.
Yes, he is being taught to be a pocket passer. Fairchild has been training him that way. I don't even remember him scramble all throughout camp. It's even evident so far if you compare him to last year.
It was even stated yesterday(radio) that "team sources" say that he has been told not to scramble because The last thing the team needs is for him to delay his learning process if he get's hurt trying to scramble especially since does not know how to slide properly.
like I said, they have taken the scrambling away in order to facilitate his development in the pocket. It was really clear in the pre-season when he would drop back and plant and that was the end of his movement--that must be what he was told. He's had a little more leeway now but not much. I have to think the strategy is to build his confidence in the pocket which is why he's been restrained.
I am not so sure the long-term strategy is that he's going to be a pocket passer though. He needs to have the skills in the pocket to succeed and they are going to do the best they can to help him obtain those skills but that doesn't mean they also don't recognize how much he can do for the team when he's mobile. I really think this is very much over analyzed by all sources watching the games. The coaching staff is doing what they need to do to find out if we have the QB we need and the task is to stregthen his weaknesses and then move on to build the position around the strenghts of the player.
I also think the fumbling and bumbling is due to his having his safety blanket taken away. And I really like the fact that he's working hard with all the people on the team to make the team and himself better. A lot of guys would have just said screw that I'm going to do what makes me comfortable. He's not. He's working to turn those weaknesses into strenghts and the coaches are helping him do that...along the way we are just taking some lumps. If he can get his head together the fumbling and bumbling is going to go away and we are going to be left with a guy who knows what's happening on the field and can exploit his teams strenghts and the defenses weaknesses. It's a really good thing.
justasportsfan
09-27-2006, 04:23 PM
like I said, they have taken the scrambling away in order to facilitate his development in the pocket. It was really clear in the pre-season when he would drop back and plant and that was the end of his movement--that must be what he was told. He's had a little more leeway now but not much. I have to think the strategy is to build his confidence in the pocket which is why he's been restrained.
I am not so sure the long-term strategy is that he's going to be a pocket passer though. He needs to have the skills in the pocket to succeed and they are going to do the best they can to help him obtain those skills but that doesn't mean they also don't recognize how much he can do for the team when he's mobile. I really think this is very much over analyzed by all sources watching the games. The coaching staff is doing what they need to do to find out if we have the QB we need and the task is to stregthen his weaknesses and then move on to build the position around the strenghts of the player.
I also think the fumbling and bumbling is due to his having his safety blanket taken away. And I really like the fact that he's working hard with all the people on the team to make the team and himself better. A lot of guys would have just said screw that I'm going to do what makes me comfortable. He's not. He's working to turn those weaknesses into strenghts and the coaches are helping him do that...along the way we are just taking some lumps. If he can get his head together the fumbling and bumbling is going to go away and we are going to be left with a guy who knows what's happening on the field and can exploit his teams strenghts and the defenses weaknesses. It's a really good thing.
as soon as he get's comfortable with his wrs, learns how to make better reads, etc, then and only then will they start designing plays where he can run the ball.
Right now I haven't even seen them run a designed play for him on 3rd and short inspite of his mobility. .It's either hand the ball to Willis/A-Train or roll outs.
as soon as he get's comfortable with his wrs, learns how to make better reads, etc, then and only then will they start designing plays where he can run the ball.
Right now I haven't even seen them run a designed play for him on 3rd and short inspite of his mobility. .It's either hand the ball to Willis/A-Train or roll outs.
He needs to get a grip on what's happening on the field. It's much more important that he understand the defense than the WR. He plays with the WR all the time and he knows them and can throw a strike we've seen that. He's just got to relax to the point he sees what's happening on the field. If he can do that, get his head together, Losman will be heralded as a great move by TD.
justasportsfan
09-27-2006, 04:30 PM
He needs to get a grip on what's happening on the field. It's much more important that he understand the defense than the WR. He plays with the WR all the time and he knows them and can throw a strike we've seen that. He's just got to relax to the point he sees what's happening on the field. If he can do that, get his head together, Losman will be heralded as a great move by TD. I agree but the credit shouldn't go to TD because he tried to end it before it even started. Some will say we overpaid for him but TD won't be credited for recouping what we spent onhim if JP does indeed turn out to be a franchise player.
I agree but the credit shouldn't go to TD because he tried to end it before it even started. Some will say we overpaid for him but TD won't be credited for recouping what we spent onhim if JP does indeed turn out to be a franchise player.
not really sure what you're saying. Maybe we could have done more with what we spent for JP but a lot went into that trade. I guess if that was said people would be saying TD was genius in getting the leverage to grab that player but an idiot to actually grab him. The organization did what they thought was right at the time. It's not just TD.
X-Era
09-27-2006, 04:36 PM
Carson Palmer fumbled 3 times. Luckily for him his teammates were able to recover the ball twice. I'm not comparing jp to carson on the same level, but i'm just trying to show that even though palmer fumbled three times, people don't want him benched for that. I don't see jp having fumbling problem. It just happens sometimes.
Did you honestly expect some posters here to remain silent if JP fumbles?
Seriously, nothing short of perfection this year from JP is going to keep some knuckle dragging monkeys off his back.
Some posters and the media are eager to eat him alive. This is just step one, it will get worse when he inevitably makes more mistakes.
Its illogical to expect any youngster to play like a solid seasoned vet, its a contradiction in terms. Its utterly ridiculous to expect any player to play mistake free ball 100% of the time.
These "fans" that post this crap actually hate JP, and furthermore they hate the Bills by association. It was the Bills who made the choice to go with JP afterall.
I dont know hpw you can be a "fan" and yet hate one of our players so much.
X-Era
09-27-2006, 04:40 PM
JP's fumbling problem stems from him having to learn to stay in the pocket longer than he's used to. At camp , since the D players weren't allowed to sack him they would either stop dead on their tracks or run by past him knowing it was a "would be" sack while JP still had to finish the play by attempting a throw as required by Fairchild in order to make JP a pocket passer. This IMO created a bad habbit of not taking care of the ball. There was no sense of urgency in JP's part to get rid of the ball quickly because the D wasn't allowed to sack him anyways. He was also told to wait play to develop.
This is part of the growing pains we will have to go through by trying to change JP into a pocket passer. This will continue until our OL holds up or JP learns who to get rid of the ball quickly. Until then Royals or Everrett will be in there protecting JP and you won't see alot of TE catches.
IMO , Jauron should get a few pages from BB slant patterns or the jets so that JP gets rid of that ball fast. We have speedy wrs with sure hands who can pull it off.
Thats exactly the type of playcalling that HELPS a young QB rather than trying to throw deep balls with a 35 MPH wind. I was actually suprised at the playcalling. I felt they had done a good job the two previous weeks, but that JP was put in a poor position in this last game. He was given risky plays, it raised his chance for mistakes, and he made some...go figure. If you want to throw the ball 30-50 yards down field you might want to ensure that JP has adequate protection to do so.
Did you honestly expect some posters here to remain silent if JP fumbles?
Seriously, nothing short of perfection this year from JP is going to keep some knuckle dragging monkeys off his back.
Some posters and the media are eager to eat him alive. This is just step one, it will get worse when he inevitably makes more mistakes.
Its illogical to expect any youngster to play like a solid seasoned vet, its a contradiction in terms. Its utterly ridiculous to expect any player to play mistake free ball 100% of the time.
These "fans" that post this crap actually hate JP, and furthermore they hate the Bills by association. It was the Bills who made the choice to go with JP afterall.
I dont know hpw you can be a "fan" and yet hate one of our players so much.
the way things stand right now...JP is on track to drop the ball on the ground over 37 times this season.
justasportsfan
09-27-2006, 04:44 PM
not really sure what you're saying. Maybe we could have done more with what we spent for JP but a lot went into that trade. I guess if that was said people would be saying TD was genius in getting the leverage to grab that player but an idiot to actually grab him. The organization did what they thought was right at the time. It's not just TD.
TD should only be credited for drafting him and not developing him into a qb of the NFL if JP does become one. Bringing him hereis onething, what's next? If JP does become a probowler, credit should be given to MArv. TD practically almost ruined JP.
TD should only be credited for drafting him and not developing him into a qb of the NFL if JP does become one. Bringing him hereis onething, what's next? If JP does become a probowler, credit should be given to MArv. TD practically almost ruined JP.
yeah ;P
X-Era
09-27-2006, 04:49 PM
the way things stand right now...JP is on track to drop the ball on the ground over 37 times this season.
I dont get your math here, 2 fumbles in 3 games does not equal 37 times this year.
I dont get your math here, 2 fumbles in 3 games does not equal 37 times this year.
you're right I misspoke adn didn't do my math right. 5 fumbles and 1 interception. That's six times in 3 games. in sixteen games he's on track to risk the pumpkin over 32 times. The times he was just standing there and dropped the ball obviously count more than the times he throws into double coverage. Sorry for exaggerating.
X-Era
09-27-2006, 04:59 PM
you're right I misspoke adn didn't do my math right. 5 fumbles and 1 interception. That's six times in 3 games. in sixteen games he's on track to risk the pumpkin over 32 times. The times he was just standing there and dropped the ball obviously count more than the times he throws into double coverage. Sorry for exaggerating.
Correct me if Im wrong but we had not turned the football over a single time this season prior to the Jets game.
You must be talking about "almost" fumbles. In that case, KH is "almost" and all pro.
L.A. Playa
09-27-2006, 05:00 PM
you're right I misspoke adn didn't do my math right. 5 fumbles and 1 interception. That's six times in 3 games. in sixteen games he's on track to risk the pumpkin over 32 times. The times he was just standing there and dropped the ball obviously count more than the times he throws into double coverage. Sorry for exaggerating.
still wrong he has turned the ball over 3 times in 3 games or once a game which is equal to 16 turnovers he has fumbled 3 times and lost 2 which means he would fumble 16 times and lose 11 of them and throw a total of 5 ints
X-Era
09-27-2006, 05:07 PM
still wrong he has turned the ball over 3 times in 3 games or once a game which is equal to 16 turnovers he has fumbled 3 times and lost 2 which means he would fumble 16 times and lose 11 of them and throw a total of 5 ints
He has also thrown for 575 in 3 games and 2 TD's.
Thats 421 attempts, 256 completions, 3066 yards for 11 TD's and 5 INT's over the whole year. Passers rating of 86.9
Ill take it!!!
Correct me if Im wrong but we had not turned the football over a single time this season prior to the Jets game.
You must be talking about "almost" fumbles. In that case, KH is "almost" and all pro.
fumbles are fumbles. the amount of times you put the ball on the ground is going to indicate the amount that you lose. Even more important...from watching the games the amount that JP has put the ball on the ground has hurt us. Those are wasted plays. He's got to get that together.
still wrong he has turned the ball over 3 times in 3 games or once a game which is equal to 16 turnovers he has fumbled 3 times and lost 2 which means he would fumble 16 times and lose 11 of them and throw a total of 5 ints
he has fumbled 5 times two of which he immediately recovered on his own which didn't count in the stat you are looking at.
L.A. Playa
09-27-2006, 06:12 PM
im looking at the official NFL stats
[QUOTE=L.A. Playa]im looking at the official NFL stats[/QUOTE
it looks to me like the official NFL stats say he fumbled 3 times and lost 2 but he also recovered 2 of his own fumbles. The times he dropped the snap in NE and grabbed it are not counted in his official fumble count but they are still shown on the stats. Check it out. He dropped the ball on the ground 5 times. I know there are a lot of mechanics but it's his responsibility.
X-Era
09-28-2006, 07:00 AM
[quote=L.A. Playa]im looking at the official NFL stats[/QUOTE
it looks to me like the official NFL stats say he fumbled 3 times and lost 2 but he also recovered 2 of his own fumbles. The times he dropped the snap in NE and grabbed it are not counted in his official fumble count but they are still shown on the stats. Check it out. He dropped the ball on the ground 5 times. I know there are a lot of mechanics but it's his responsibility.
I dont agree with you, fumbles or even bad throws arent what loses games, its turnovers that lose games. The facts are that he has fumbled for a turnover twice, and thrown one int.
Bad throws and fumbles recovered by the same player happen fairly frequently. I cant agree that it will lead to losing games unless its an actual turnover.
That said, NO ONE wants JP to be fumbling whether its a turnover or not. I agree he needs to be much more careful of that. But, Im unwilling to stick this in the "fumbling problem" category because hes so damn green. If hes still fumbling as much mid next year, YES thats a concern.
gr8slayer
09-28-2006, 08:30 AM
he has fumbled 5 times two of which he immediately recovered on his own which didn't count in the stat you are looking at.
"Kelly Holcomb is such a silly billy. He could jump across the whole city of Dallas in a single bound. He could throw a ball from New York to Dallas. He could out run an Olympic runner. He would be league MVP right now if he were playing. OHHHHHHHHHHHhh Kelly Holcomb."
HHURRICANE
09-28-2006, 08:55 AM
[quote=Typ0]
I dont agree with you, fumbles or even bad throws arent what loses games, its turnovers that lose games. The facts are that he has fumbled for a turnover twice, and thrown one int.
Bad throws and fumbles recovered by the same player happen fairly frequently. I cant agree that it will lead to losing games unless its an actual turnover.
That said, NO ONE wants JP to be fumbling whether its a turnover or not. I agree he needs to be much more careful of that. But, Im unwilling to stick this in the "fumbling problem" category because hes so damn green. If hes still fumbling as much mid next year, YES thats a concern.
This is a great post. It's totally fair and objective.
This site suffers from too much emotion. Just like the title of this thread. JP made some mistakes and in my opinion didn't have a good game. Considering I was sitting in a sports bar in Atlanta with a few friends that aren't Bills fans they were able to draw the same conclusion. With that said nobody is screaming for a new QB.
As I have posed, several times, name me an option that's better than JP. The JP haters never come up with one. Anybody who posts Brady Quinn in this site should be negged to death. It's the equivalent of a blockbuster trade to get Peyton Manning here. Where we will be drafting makes him unavailable in the first place. Second, I've watched him play and he's no more of an answer than Losman at this point.
Losman doesn't have to be great, just good. We'll get to watch Johnson this weekend. A guy that's never lost wherever he's been.
[quote=Typ0]
I dont agree with you, fumbles or even bad throws arent what loses games, its turnovers that lose games. The facts are that he has fumbled for a turnover twice, and thrown one int.
Bad throws and fumbles recovered by the same player happen fairly frequently. I cant agree that it will lead to losing games unless its an actual turnover.
That said, NO ONE wants JP to be fumbling whether its a turnover or not. I agree he needs to be much more careful of that. But, Im unwilling to stick this in the "fumbling problem" category because hes so damn green. If hes still fumbling as much mid next year, YES thats a concern.
there are two things at play here. First, definately it's turnovers that conceed games but guess what...the more you drop the ball on the ground the more you are going to actually turn it over. If a QB never drops the ball on the ground what do you think the odds are of his fumbling? Don't those odds increase if he drops it on the ground five times?
Second, so he dropped the ball on the ground and it wasn't a turnover. What happened on that play? It was a wasted down no?
quotes above from JP Era...he has an extra 'quote' vbulletin tag in his post which is causing them to quote as me.
ICE74129
09-28-2006, 10:49 AM
[quote=jp-era]
there are two things at play here. First, definately it's turnovers that conceed games but guess what...the more you drop the ball on the ground the more you are going to actually turn it over. If a QB never drops the ball on the ground what do you think the odds are of his fumbling? Don't those odds increase if he drops it on the ground five times?
Second, so he dropped the ball on the ground and it wasn't a turnover. What happened on that play? It was a wasted down no?
No moreso than a dropped pass or willis half assing it on 4th down in New England.
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