How can we STILL think we need more OL?

[X-Era]

Check the stats guys.

The two best LT's are probably Orlando Pace and Walter Jones. Yet, BOTH Bulger and Hasselbeck have been sacked more times than JP!!

Hell, STL has Pace on one end and Alex Barron on the other.

I think every team in the league probably feels like they could do better on the OL and maybe this stat shows that.

Add in that we have the #1 rusher in the league for 2 straight weeks. How can we be clamoring for an upgrade at OL?

Based on what? Penalties? yes, but what team hasnt had them that has a great o-line?

[Forward_Lateral]

Because the Bills only have ONE backup guard on their Depth Chart.

[Night Train]

How about OL that pancake the opposition in the running game ? That's the true measure.

Sacks aren't the proper measure. You could stick 5 HOF OL in front of Bledsoe and he'd still get sacked 50 times.

We still need a couple bigger, stronger OL to replace Chris V. and Gandy.

[X-Era]

Because the Bills only have ONE backup guard on their Depth Chart.

THAT I will buy!

But that doesnt have to come from the 1st round

[X-Era]

How about OL that pancake the opposition in the running game ? That's the true measure.

Sacks aren't the proper measure. You could stick 5 HOF OL in front of Bledsoe and he'd still get sacked 50 times.

We still need a couple bigger, stronger OL to replace Chris V. and Gandy.

But if we arent looking at sacks and we have the #1 rusher in the league, whats the problem again?

Im not saying its a perfect line. Im only asking if anyoen can point to another teams line that is perfect. Denver has the lightest OL in the league. The average weight is well under 300 pounds.

Villarial is getting long in the tooth, so we may need a replacement. But I think we are about to see that we already have one in Duke Preston.

[Ron Burgundy]

But if we arent looking at sacks and we have the #1 rusher in the league, whats the problem again?

Yards per carry. Third down conversions. Penalties. Quarterback pressures.

Your argument is flawed 'cause you're leaving out data. Our o-line definitely needs some tweaking.

[ICE74129]

This OL still doesn't have a QUALITY LT or RG. Then there is depth which is lacking as well.

I don't care how well we do or don't do this year, if Marv doesn't go out and land a top notch LT and RG, we aren't getting much better than we are now.

[BillsFever21]

If Losman wasn't so mobile this OL would've given up at least 16 sacks by now.

And while McGahee is leading the league in rushing his YPC is very low. He's probably up there towards the front in attempts also. Plus there are many good RB's that have already had their bye week and McGahee has a game on them.

Also, McGahee only has 1 TD. The OL has gotten manhandled inside the 10 yard line and couldn't get him any room to score. It took a penalty on the Vikings to even get the TD on Sunday.

We also haven't been able to convert on short yardage in obvious running situation because our OL is getting knocked on their ass by the DL. This OL is improved over last year but far from not needing anymore help.

[BillsFever21]

Just as I thought. McGahee leads the league in attempts and he's 26th in YPC. His YPC is only 3.9. This OL still needs a lot of work.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Check the stats guys.

The two best LT's are probably Orlando Pace and Walter Jones. Yet, BOTH Bulger and Hasselbeck have been sacked more times than JP!!

Hell, STL has Pace on one end and Alex Barron on the other.

I think every team in the league probably feels like they could do better on the OL and maybe this stat shows that.

Add in that we have the #1 rusher in the league for 2 straight weeks. How can we be clamoring for an upgrade at OL?

Based on what? Penalties? yes, but what team hasnt had them that has a great o-line?
How can you think we don't need more help on the Oline?

[Saratoga Slim]

Also, McGahee only has 1 TD. The OL has gotten manhandled inside the 10 yard line and couldn't get him any room to score. It took a penalty on the Vikings to even get the TD on Sunday.

We also haven't been able to convert on short yardage in obvious running situation because our OL is getting knocked on their ass by the DL. This OL is improved over last year but far from not needing anymore help.

Agreed. You can tell a good run blocking offensive line when you see a push on short yardage situations. While the line this year is definately playing better than last, we still struggle to run on third and short and near the goal line. Even McGahee's touchdown last week was more his effort than the line's success in clearing a path. I'm happy with the improvement, and don't fault Levy and Co. for making the offseason decisions that they did in light of the numerous holes we had to fill, but I'm really hoping this next free agent period and draft land us a solid RG, perhaps an upgrade at LT, and some depth.

[Earthquake Enyart]

How can you think we don't need more help on the Oline?
Exactly.

After the Bear game, everyone will think we need 4 new starters.

[Historian]

I don't think you can ever have enough quality O linemen, or defensive backs.

[EDS]

Just as I thought. McGahee leads the league in attempts and he's 26th in YPC. His YPC is only 3.9. This OL still needs a lot of work.

Agreed.

I really think right guard is a huge problem right now because the team has had very little success running up the middle. A stud right guard would go a long way to opening up some daylight for Willis. Fortunately, I think this something that is correctable in free agency or the draft (although they may have to draft a left tackle since they are not readily available in free agency).

[THATHURMANATOR]

This is the same guy clamoring to trade for Roy Williams even though we are 4deep with Solid receivers..... :shakeno:

[THATHURMANATOR]

Exactly.

After the Bear game, everyone will think we need 4 new starters.
Unfortunatly you may be right?

[bocephuz]

Was I the only one who saw Duke Preston get manhandled by Williams on his first play in replacing Villarial?

I know it's tough to come in off the bench cold... but I didn't like what I saw there. He's gonna have a long day against Tommie Harris (who from what I saw on Monday night is a monster)

[mysticsoto]

Preston had some bad plays, but he wasn't a total disaster. Then again, that's really no difference than Villarial - who tends to have a few bad plays a game. Preston is not far from Villarials' level of play. That being said, I wish we had someone better than both. I can only hope that Merz develops into the Guard that we need.

In either case, we will likely be drafting or via FA, getting another Guard next year as Villarial's career comes to an end in Buffalo.

[TigerJ]

The life of a GM is to always be trying to improve every aspect of his football team. While the offensive line is better than what it was a year ago, it's still not worthy of being labeled a strength. It's a little too soon to tell where the weakest points are in the line, probably no one among the starters, except perhaps Peters, is much better than the average lineman at that position. Villarial looks to be on his last legs, and I'll be a little surprised if he's back next season.

[Lexwhat]

Check the stats guys.

The two best LT's are probably Orlando Pace and Walter Jones. Yet, BOTH Bulger and Hasselbeck have been sacked more times than JP!!

Hell, STL has Pace on one end and Alex Barron on the other.

I think every team in the league probably feels like they could do better on the OL and maybe this stat shows that.

Add in that we have the #1 rusher in the league for 2 straight weeks. How can we be clamoring for an upgrade at OL?

Based on what? Penalties? yes, but what team hasnt had them that has a great o-line?


Isn't Pace injured and not playing?

[Devin]

Lets see how our line holds up against Ogun and Tommie Harris.

Then see what you think.

[Jan Reimers]

JP has handled the constant pressure very well with his mobility and quick release, while Willis has ground it out without much room to run.

The O line is still our weak link - although it's not as bad as many of us thought - and needs improvement. We probably need 2 quality starters and some depth, although the emergence of Butler, Pennington or Merz could mean we don't have to go ouside the organization for all the needed help.

[John Doe]

Willis has not had a high average per carry, but the Bills have played against some pretty good lines so far. New England's is top notch and the pair of tackles for the Vikings are as good as the team will face this year.

Every team can stand to improve their offensive line, including the Bills. Its hard to build quality o-line depth due to the mere fact that you have 5 positions to fill. The Bills are very shakey right now with the backups being all rookies and a starter (Preston) having little experience. It would be nice to have at least one veteren reserve.

[Ingtar33]

right now jp and the coaching staff is making the O-line look better then it is.

we're using a lot of max protects on passing downs... and jp is getting rid of the ball quickly (or scrambling).

look at the running game. except against the jets... we've not blown one team off the los.


that doesn't bode well for the o-line

[X-Era]

This is the same guy clamoring to trade for Roy Williams even though we are 4deep with Solid receivers..... :shakeno:

Nope, lets be clear. I am the guy clamoring for us to make moves that put us over the top and into a playoff team as soon as possible.

I can argue that we have the "corp" that we need. JP, McGahee, Evans plus a decent defense.

However, I can also see that we are a few plamaking stars away from the SB.

You pick the positions, I dont care that much. I could argue that stars that handle the ball mean more than stars that dont, but I still dont care, just add a few more.

If you buy into the "as soon as possible" thought. You wouldnt clamor for a 1st round LT. They take years to develop.

DE? maybe though I can see that our scheme only gives that star DE half or a little more than half the total downs (considering rotation), is that money well spent? John Abraham was obtained through trade, were we a player?

LT? maybe, but who have we tried hard to trade with to get a star? LJ Shelton? PLEASE!

OG? Hutchinson was just traded this past offseason, were we a player?

Catch my drift? Its not about who the player is or even at what position necessarily although my arguement so far has been about that. Its about adding bigtime players to put us over the top and doing whatever it takes to do just that. Moreover its about realizing that draftees are more of a risk than proven players.

Thats what this whole thread is about at the corp. However, yes, on the surface I am picking one player who is on a crappy team that could be a bigtime player for us if we had them.

Your points are valid, you are saying that we have bigger needs. My point is only why not address it "bigger" than through the draft where its a crap shoot?

I also question what we are looking for in an o-line and if the standard is too high for many of us. Im giving evidence that it may be.

[Dozerdog]

Isn't Shaun Alexander injured and not playing?


Max Strong at RB allows the defenses to disrespect the run, covering the WRs like a blanket. A lot of Hasselback's sacks are coverage sacks

[X-Era]

Isn't Shaun Alexander injured and not playing?


Max Strong at RB allows the defenses to disrespect the run, covering the WRs like a blanket. A lot of Hasselback's sacks are coverage sacks

And Bulgers excuse is????

[YardRat]

The o-line still needs to be upgraded. Fowler and Reyes were good additions and helped solidify the play a little so far this season. I don't think Gandy is as big a liability as some others think he is...he has trouble with the speed rushers at times, but what LT doesn't? He plays consistent enough for me. RG is a real concern at this point, regardless of whether it's V or Preston in there. I'm still not sold on Peters...to me he's this club's version of Rueben Brown...he doesn't play up to the level of his hype.

[X-Era]

The o-line still needs to be upgraded. Fowler and Reyes were good additions and helped solidify the play a little so far this season. I don't think Gandy is as big a liability as some others think he is...he has trouble with the speed rushers at times, but what LT doesn't? He plays consistent enough for me. RG is a real concern at this point, regardless of whether it's V or Preston in there. I'm still not sold on Peters...to me he's this club's version of Rueben Brown...he doesn't play up to the level of his hype.

dont disagree. but this position doesnt need to be filled through a big trade per say or even a 1st rounder for that matter.

[Ron Burgundy]

Your points are valid, you are saying that we have bigger needs. My point is only why not address it "bigger" than through the draft where its a crap shoot?

That's Dan Snyder's strategy...and it's worked wonders for the 'skins so far!

[X-Era]

That's Dan Snyder's strategy...and it's worked wonders for the 'skins so far!

Is it?

Or is it Denvers strategy? Champ Bailey and Javon Walker. How did it work for them?

How bad was it to trade for Santanna Moss? care to check last years receiving yards stats?

Look, no one is saying its a sure thing. But, it sure has helped out some teams with the nards to give it a try.

The draft is no different. How bad was it to draft Larry Fitz when you already had Boldin?

[Ron Burgundy]

Is it?
Yes. And it hasn't done dick for them. Other than eventually screw their cap up, that is.


Or is it Denvers strategy? Champ Bailey and Javon Walker. How did it work for them?

How bad was it to trade for Santanna Moss? care to check last years receiving yards stats?

Look, no one is saying its a sure thing. But, it sure has helped out some teams with the nards to give it a try.

The draft is no different. How bad was it to draft Larry Fitz when you already had Boldin?
Which one of these teams have won the last few Super Bowls?

Oh, it was Pittsburgh. And New England. Y'know, teams that were built through the draft.

[X-Era]

Yes. And it hasn't done dick for them.


Which one of these teams have won the last few Super Bowls?

Oh, it was Pittsburgh. And New England. Y'know, teams that were built through the draft.

Good point, whos the 1st round LT's they started again? Turns out our destiny at LT resides in picking one in the 2nd round according to your thought.

[X-Era]

Yes. And it hasn't done dick for them. Other than eventually screw their cap up, that is.


Which one of these teams have won the last few Super Bowls?

Oh, it was Pittsburgh. And New England. Y'know, teams that were built through the draft.

Santanna Moss hasnt done dick for the Redskins?

Clinton Portis hasnt done anything for the Redskins?

The data doesnt support that claim. I think your comment is based on "dont like" and not the facts.

[Ron Burgundy]

Good point, whos the 1st round LT's they started again? Turns out our destiny at LT resides in picking one in the 2nd round according to your thought.
That's fine. I could care less where we draft 'em, as long as they can play.

[Ron Burgundy]

Santanna Moss hasnt done dick for the Redskins?

Clinton Portis hasnt done anything for the Redskins?

The data doesnt support that claim. I think your comment is based on "dont like" and not the facts.

I don't dislike either player.

But they haven't put the 'skins in the dance, either...which is the ultimate goal, rather than leading the league in yards or whatever.

[Throne Logic]

You can sum up our OL problems by watching the 4th quarter of every game this season to-date. The complete inability to control the LOS in crunch time. If our OL were able to consistently spring Willis for just 4 yards / carry we'd be able to run out the clock and solidify the win. Instead, we go run, run, run, punt, pray to God.

[X-Era]

I don't dislike either player.

But they haven't put the 'skins in the dance, either...which is the ultimate goal, rather than leading the league in yards or whatever.

No, but my point from the start is that a few players like this will put us over the top and into the playoffs.

It worked for both Denver and Washington, both went to the playoffs last year.

I cant agree that our status quo is good enough. I also cant agree that we should bank solely on the draft to put us over the top considering the 50% failure rate.

Free Agency has flat out been pitiful as far as stars being available, they almost always get franchise tagged.

That leaves trades as the only outlet to get a proven star. Yet, many through this one into the Madden category rather than reality. Even though Blockbuster trades are happening more frequently.

Its time for the Bills to improve their overall talent on ALL fronts. Trades, the draft, Free Agency.

[X-Era]

You can sum up our OL problems by watching the 4th quarter of every game this season to-date. The complete inability to control the LOS in crunch time. If our OL were able to consistently spring Willis for just 4 yards / carry we'd be able to run out the clock and solidify the win. Instead, we go run, run, run, punt, pray to God.

Actually the critical play series in the last game that I saw was run pass attempt a long pass that led to a punt and allowed the Vikes to climb back in it.

The notion that Willis can average 4 per carry in every game is ridiculous. It will NEVER happen. I offer that no current team, has been able to have their RB, star or not, run for 4 yards per carry in every single game.

The problem you describe about closing out games is a real one for sure. But I cant lump the whole problem on the o-line.

I feel like we still need a few stars regardless of position. I cant say we should forfeit that or not do it so that we can take chances on draftees or sign second tier FA's hoping that they will get better than what they have already shown.

The overall talent is not Super Bowl level yet on this team. If we can fix it using more traditional methods, fine. But id like to see us do ALL we can to tip the scales.

[BillsFever21]

This is the same guy clamoring to trade for Roy Williams even though we are 4deep with Solid receivers..... :shakeno:

Who wouldn't love to pair Roy Williams along with Lee Evans? The rest of these WR's can't hold his jockstrap.

It would be great to have Roy Williams. It would go a long way in JP's development and would make this offense amazing. It wo uld also help McGahee out. Evans definitely wouldn't be facing any double teams paired with Williams. Neither of them would.

Only an idiot wouldn't want Williams paired together with Evans instead of Reed or Price if they had a choice. I wouldn't give up a 1st round pick to achieve it though. I would do a 2nd rounder though. It's all a pipe dream though because it would never happen.

We have way too many more pressing needs to spend a 1st round pick on another WR right now though. So in that sense it makes the thought crazy.

Also, he's not even on the trading block so it makes the thought worthless.

That would be like saying we should trade a 1st round pick to Carolina for Julius Peppers. Or a 1st round pick to the Chargers for Shawne Merriman. We would do it in a heartbeat but it would never happen. To even bring up Williams as a possible trade when he isn't on the block is crazy.

It would be nice just to pick whatever players you wanted though and that team would trade you them.

[BillsFever21]

Why are you obsessed with this pipe dream? I think everyone here would love to have Evans and Williams as a combo along with guys like Price, Reed and Parrish behind them. They would be unstoppable.

That would give you immediate offense capabilities like the Colts and the old Rams teams. That would make this a Top 5 offense and even better once JP catches on even more. It would also speed up his development.

He's not on the block though so it's a non-issue. Williams is Mike Martz' version of Torry Holt. He's the only Lions 1st round WR in 3 straight years that has amounted to anything. Rogers would rather smoke weed and doesn't work hard enough. He's wasted talent that didn't care after he got paid and Mike Williams hasn't done squat. He hardly gets any playing time. The Lions isn't gonna trade their only great WR in that offense unless he became a major problem and cancer on the team.

This would be a different story if Williams was on the trading block. He isn't though unless I haven't heard about it. So this is only a dream.

There's a lot of players I would trade a 1st round pick for. I'd rather give up a 1st round pick for a young already proven star if possible then draft somebody who is a crapshoot. Him along with hundreds of other great players isn't available though.


Nope, lets be clear. I am the guy clamoring for us to make moves that put us over the top and into a playoff team as soon as possible.

I can argue that we have the "corp" that we need. JP, McGahee, Evans plus a decent defense.

However, I can also see that we are a few plamaking stars away from the SB.

You pick the positions, I dont care that much. I could argue that stars that handle the ball mean more than stars that dont, but I still dont care, just add a few more.

If you buy into the "as soon as possible" thought. You wouldnt clamor for a 1st round LT. They take years to develop.

DE? maybe though I can see that our scheme only gives that star DE half or a little more than half the total downs (considering rotation), is that money well spent? John Abraham was obtained through trade, were we a player?

LT? maybe, but who have we tried hard to trade with to get a star? LJ Shelton? PLEASE!

OG? Hutchinson was just traded this past offseason, were we a player?

Catch my drift? Its not about who the player is or even at what position necessarily although my arguement so far has been about that. Its about adding bigtime players to put us over the top and doing whatever it takes to do just that. Moreover its about realizing that draftees are more of a risk than proven players.

Thats what this whole thread is about at the corp. However, yes, on the surface I am picking one player who is on a crappy team that could be a bigtime player for us if we had them.

Your points are valid, you are saying that we have bigger needs. My point is only why not address it "bigger" than through the draft where its a crap shoot?

I also question what we are looking for in an o-line and if the standard is too high for many of us. Im giving evidence that it may be.

[X-Era]

Who wouldn't love to pair Roy Williams along with Lee Evans? The rest of these WR's can't hold his jockstrap.

It would be great to have Roy Williams. It would go a long way in JP's development and would make this offense amazing. It wo uld also help McGahee out. Evans definitely wouldn't be facing any double teams paired with Williams. Neither of them would.

Only an idiot wouldn't want Williams paired together with Evans instead of Reed or Price if they had a choice. I wouldn't give up a 1st round pick to achieve it though. I would do a 2nd rounder though. It's all a pipe dream though because it would never happen.

We have way too many more pressing needs to spend a 1st round pick on another WR right now though. So in that sense it makes the thought crazy.

Also, he's not even on the trading block so it makes the thought worthless.

That would be like saying we should trade a 1st round pick to Carolina for Julius Peppers. Or a 1st round pick to the Chargers for Shawne Merriman. We would do it in a heartbeat but it would never happen. To even bring up Williams as a possible trade when he isn't on the block is crazy.

It would be nice just to pick whatever players you wanted though and that team would trade you them.

Thanks for adding sensibility here.

This IS a pipe dream. Thats correct. Its nothing more than a wish and a prayer.

However the foundation of the thought is real. Its that trades can be made to add a star to a team.

I continue to think we are a bit short on stars on this squad. Furthermore, your comment is accurate, why not forfeit a 1st rounder for a proven young star. The draft is a crapshoot.

Im only pointing to a player that Id like to see us trade for, there are many others.

[patmoran2006]

We absolutely need a better right guard next year, and if the opportunity presents itself an upgrade at left tackle.

Now I don't hate Gandy at all.. I think he's actually been rather steady this year... BUT. Do you guys remember Marcus Price a few years back? Gandy reminds me of him. Gandy would be a VERY valuable backup at both tackle spots, but I'd rather have someone a little stronger on the left side.

I dont think there is any doubt Marv gets two new starters on the line next year, and with Preston and gandy in backup roles we'd have great depth.

[patmoran2006]

Thanks for adding sensibility here.

This IS a pipe dream. Thats correct. Its nothing more than a wish and a prayer.

However the foundation of the thought is real. Its that trades can be made to add a star to a team.

I continue to think we are a bit short on stars on this squad. Furthermore, your comment is accurate, why not forfeit a 1st rounder for a proven young star. The draft is a crapshoot.

Im only pointing to a player that Id like to see us trade for, there are many others.
I disagree with you-- and trading for Williams (which we both admit will not happen) wouldnt help this team progress.

Is Williams a VERY good WR? of course he is. But he's not what we need. Our WR play is more than just average.

This draft proved Marv knows what he's doing and he has a plan. I'll go out in a limb now and say that after building a much better defense via this draft, he'll be a lot more focused on the OL (and maybe DE) early in the next draft.

No way I give up my first rounder for Williams, even if he's proven himself.

[EDS]

Santanna Moss hasnt done dick for the Redskins?

Clinton Portis hasnt done anything for the Redskins?

The data doesnt support that claim. I think your comment is based on "dont like" and not the facts.

You do realize that in acquiring the aforementioned players the skins traded Champ Bailey and Laverneous (sp?) Coles in the process? So in essence, they traded away bigger contracts for smaller ones (i.e., Bailey has a bigger contract then Portis and Coles has a bigger contract then Moss).

What everyone is trying to explain to you is that simply accumulated "star" players is not a guaranteed ticket to the Super Bowl. All of the recent Super Bowl champions (Pitt, NE, TB, B-more, Rams, etc.) have been built largely through the draft and supplemented with smart, usually low cost, free agent acquisitions. This is not necessarily the only way to a championship, but the track record of the successful teams speaks for itself, and as we know, the Redskins have not won anything despite their massive free agent expenditures.

[justasportsfan]

Check the stats guys.

The two best LT's are probably Orlando Pace and Walter Jones. Yet, BOTH Bulger and Hasselbeck have been sacked more times than JP!!

Hell, STL has Pace on one end and Alex Barron on the other.

I think every team in the league probably feels like they could do better on the OL and maybe this stat shows that.

Add in that we have the #1 rusher in the league for 2 straight weeks. How can we be clamoring for an upgrade at OL?

Based on what? Penalties? yes, but what team hasnt had them that has a great o-line?
JP played a very good game with pressure in his face against the Vikes.Our O(L hasn't been as bad a last years but Willis ran for 2.8 ypc. Hell yes, we need better OL.

We need better pass protection and an OL that can dominate DL. We don't have that yet. I'm alost sure Marv will address that next year if this OL doesn't become dominant by years end.

[X-Era]

You do realize that in acquiring the aforementioned players the skins traded Champ Bailey and Laverneous (sp?) Coles in the process? So in essence, they traded away bigger contracts for smaller ones (i.e., Bailey has a bigger contract then Portis and Coles has a bigger contract then Moss).

What everyone is trying to explain to you is that simply accumulated "star" players is not a guaranteed ticket to the Super Bowl. All of the recent Super Bowl champions (Pitt, NE, TB, B-more, Rams, etc.) have been built largely through the draft and supplemented with smart, usually low cost, free agent acquisitions. This is not necessarily the only way to a championship, but the track record of the successful teams speaks for itself, and as we know, the Redskins have not won anything despite their massive free agent expenditures.

And what Im trying to explain to everyone here is that we dont have the talent level of ANY of the teams you listed when they went. Nor, did we even choose players who ave reached the talent level of the players each team chose. Welcome to where we are.

Now, we can continue our drought on both FA front and the draft and continue to be just excatly what we are plus or minus a few wins. OR, we can be willing to make drastic changes to push our team into the playoffs in hopes to make the Superbowl.

Both example I gave you were of teams willing to make trades to make their teams better and both went to the playoffs last year.

ALL the teams you listed were willing to draft the best player available whether it was at their biggest need of not:

NE- drafted both Daniel Graham and Ben Watson
Bal- drafted Terrel Suggs even though they already had studs like Ray Lewis and Boulware
Rams drafted Steven Jackson even with Marshall Faulk
Pitt drafted Randle El even with Hines Ward

[X-Era]

JP played a very good game with pressure in his face against the Vikes.Our O(L hasn't been as bad a last years but Willis ran for 2.8 ypc. Hell yes, we need better OL.

We need better pass protection and an OL that can dominate DL. We don't have that yet. I'm alost sure Marv will address that next year if this OL doesn't become dominant by years end.

And many of us were "almost sure" that we would draft OL very early last year too, how did that go?

[Mr. Cynical]

Sorry, but the OL still stinks like hot garbage.

[X-Era]

Sorry, but the OL still stinks like hot garbage.

I may not agree but thats freekin funny!

[YardRat]

ALL the teams you listed were willing to draft the best player available whether it was at their biggest need of not:

NE- drafted both Daniel Graham and Ben Watson
Bal- drafted Terrel Suggs even though they already had studs like Ray Lewis and Boulware
Rams drafted Steven Jackson even with Marshall Faulk
Pitt drafted Randle El even with Hines Ward

Buffalo drafted Donte Whitner even though everybody in the free world knew OL and DL was a bigger need than safety.

Marv's been through this before, and was extremely successful without pulling the trigger on a major trade for an established star. He and Polian built the Super Bowl teams through the draft and acquiring selective free agents, so you could argue what BB's done in NE isn't exactly new, but rather a continuation of how successful teams have been built prior to him.

[Billsrock4life]

its gotten alot better but we still need some depth and someone 2 replace gandy and villarial

[Mr. Cynical]

He and Polian built the Super Bowl teams through the draft and acquiring selective free agents

The key word here being Polian. We know Polian can do it without Marv. Time will tell if Marv can do it without Polian.