More people coming around on the Whitner pick

[billsburgh]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/nunyo_demasio/10/03/nfl.films/1.html
After safety Donte Whitner was named the NFL's defensive rookie of the month for September, he collected six tackles Sunday to help Buffalo defeat the Vikings 17-12 in October's first game. So Buffalo doesn't look so bad for ostensibly reaching to pluck Whitner eighth overall. I won't pretend that I'd heard of the guy before the draft, but I didn't understand why the Bills got crucified for choosing an obscure player so high. They obviously did their homework. If an NFL team is convinced that a prospect is a future star, it's too risky to get cute and try to draft him at "right spot," as some contended he would be at No. 15. Let's just applaud the Bills and their septuagenarian GM Marv Levy, who's smart enough to be the only talent evaluator in NFL history with a master's degree from Harvard ('51), in English history....

[Devin]

In Marv we trust!

[Meathead]

no no its

trust in The Marv and find peace

ohm

[Jan Reimers]

So far, our 2006 draft looks brilliant, although I realize it's very early to make a definite evaluation. Whitner is great, McCargo's in the DT mix, Simpson and Williams look like steals, Ellison has done a fine job subbing for Spikes, The 3 O-Linemen are on the roster, and Youboty, with a year on the squad, may be the heir apparent to Clemets.

Who says the game has passed Marv by?

[mybills]

I :heart: Marv

[RedEyE]

In Marv we trust!

I hate that the Benglas have stolen that phrase from us.

[Typ0]

I don't think I'll ever come around. With two huge and hyped up franchise players on the board taking a safety at 8 will always be a reach even if he ends up in the HOF. Hindsight is 20 20 you know.

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

I don't think I'll ever come around. With two huge and hyped up franchise players on the board taking a safety at 8 will always be a reach even if he ends up in the HOF. Hindsight is 20 20 you know.

you said it your self Typ0 : "hyped up"

[Jan Reimers]

I don't think I'll ever come around. With two huge and hyped up franchise players on the board taking a safety at 8 will always be a reach even if he ends up in the HOF. Hindsight is 20 20 you know.
I'm pretty sure you're being sarcastic, TypO. I think that either McCargo or Williams - or for sure, combined - will be better than either of the two more touted DTs, and we still got Whitner and Simpson, who should be our starting safeties for years to come, and Youboty, who is an odds on bet to replace Clements.

And despite the hype, I think the Bills had valid questions about Ngata and Bunkley. I believe the Bills did their homework before the draft, and their apparent success is no accident.

[DraftBoy]

So far, our 2006 draft looks brilliant, although I realize it's very early to make a definite evaluation. Whitner is great, McCargo's in the DT mix, Simpson and Williams look like steals, Ellison has done a fine job subbing for Spikes, The 3 O-Linemen are on the roster, and Youboty, with a year on the squad, may be the heir apparent to Clemets.

Who says the game has passed Marv by?


Lets not jump to crazy conclusions; Williams has been non existant since the preseason and McCargo has been in the rotation more based on draft status than based on merit.

Whitner-A
McCargo-B
Youboty-Incomplete
Simpson-B+
Williams-B
Butler-Incomplete
Ellison-A
Pennington-Incomplete
Merz-Incomplete

[ublinkwescore]

no no its

trust in The Marv and find peace

ohm

Are you committing Blasphemy against Gewaweh or whatever it is you call it?

[ublinkwescore]

I don't think I'll ever come around. With two huge and hyped up franchise players on the board taking a safety at 8 will always be a reach even if he ends up in the HOF. Hindsight is 20 20 you know.

And what two "huge and hyped up players" are you talking about?

Whitner's outperforming Micheal Huff - people don't like to look at that though do they...

[ublinkwescore]

I don't think I'll ever come around. With two huge and hyped up franchise players on the board taking a safety at 8 will always be a reach even if he ends up in the HOF. Hindsight is 20 20 you know.

Sorry for quoting this twice, but "even if he ends up in the HOF"...

Are you out of your freakin' mind?

If he ends up in the HOF, it would most likely mean that he's performed at a pro-bowler level for 5 + years, and led the league in some important stats over the course of his career (like maybe INTs or INTs returned for TDs)... this post just makes absolutely no sense to me.

[ublinkwescore]

Lets not jump to crazy conclusions; Williams has been non existant since the preseason and McCargo has been in the rotation more based on draft status than based on merit.

Whitner-A
McCargo-B
Youboty-Incomplete
Simpson-B+
Williams-C
Butler-Incomplete
Ellison-A
Pennington-Incomplete
Merz-Incomplete

Williams has been in on quite a few plays still, though he hasn't been as effective as he was in the preseason.

[DraftBoy]

Williams has been in on quite a few plays still, though he hasn't been as effective as he was in the preseason.

I agree I think Im being to hard on him for being a 4th round pick...B is a more appropiate grade.

[Goobylal]

I agree I think Im being to hard on him for being a 4th round pick...B is a more appropiate grade.
You're being REALLY hard on him, since he was really a 5th rounder.

[Typ0]

To answer the questions...Leinhart and Cutler were both available. They are QBs, one a heisman winner, and that's why they were hyped up. I'm sorry but the QB is the most difficult position on the squad to fill. This isn't a bash against JP Losman either...both of those guys have a much larger value that any safety in the league until they go out there and prove they suck...and it doesn't look to me like they are going to suck having seem them play some.

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

nor does JP

[Typ0]

nor does JP


right...and that's great! Taking a QB would have absolutely nothing to do with JP Losman...it would have been a better business decision.

[Goobylal]

To answer the questions...Leinhart and Cutler were both available. They are QBs, one a heisman winner, and that's why they were hyped up. I'm sorry but the QB is the most difficult position on the squad to fill. This isn't a bash against JP Losman either...both of those guys have a much larger value that any safety in the league until they go out there and prove they suck...and it doesn't look to me like they are going to suck having seem them play some.
You can't look at it like that. Cutler hasn't played jn a real game and pre-season means jack. As for Leinart, his first action had him going 5 for 8 for 49 yards and an INT for a 40.1 QB rating. Furthermore, his weak arm would have been a terrible fit in Buffalo. So neither has really proven much, whereas JP has proven a lot. But that's hindsight and both could become great QB's, we just don't know yet.

But if the Bills had taken either QB instead of Whitner, they would have been giving-up on JP and would have NOT had Whitner. So it was either Cutler/Leinart or JP and Whitner. Frankly I think they made the right choice.

[DraftBoy]

You can't look at it like that. Cutler hasn't played jn a real game and pre-season means jack. As for Leinart, his first action had him going 5 for 8 for 49 yards and an INT for a 40.1 QB rating. Furthermore, his weak arm would have been a terrible fit in Buffalo. So neither has really proven much, whereas JP has proven a lot. But that's hindsight and both could become great QB's, we just don't know yet.

But if the Bills had taken either QB instead of Whitner, they would have been giving-up on JP and would have NOT had Whitner. So it was either Cutler/Leinart or JP and Whitner. Frankly I think they made the right choice.


Leinart does not have as weak an arm as you make it out to believe. He has a much better arm than Pennington does and he has been successful when playing in Buffalo.

[Luisito23]

it would have been a better business decision.


Which would've made no sense at all.....I wanted Leinart at first too, but with JP looking nothing like himself so far, and Whitner developing into a stud, I don't know how the F:madcurse: I ever doubted in my brother Marv.........It'll never happen again Wiz....:beers: :drunks: :posrep: :smoke:....





GO BILLS!!!!!

[Meathead]

Are you committing Blasphemy against Gewaweh or whatever it is you call it?
lmao what the hell was gewawo anyway i cant even remember

[Goobylal]

Leinart does not have as weak an arm as you make it out to believe. He has a much better arm than Pennington does and he has been successful when playing in Buffalo.
Possibly, but I'd like to see him play in a game like the Bills-Jets game 2 weekends ago. And my main point, i.e. that it was a decision between JP and Whitner OR Cutler/Leinart, and the Bills seem to have made the right choice.

[DraftBoy]

Possibly, but I'd like to see him play in a game like the Bills-Jets game 2 weekends ago. And my main point, i.e. that it was a decision between JP and Whitner OR Cutler/Leinart, and the Bills seem to have made the right choice.


While I agree the choice was likely the right one, I do believe both Cutler and Leinart will be better QB's than JP down the road. So its all about how and when you choose to evaluate the picks. Right now its kind of unfair to compare JP to Leinart. Since JP has experience and Leinart doesnt but if we compare Leinart's first game to JP's first season (4 games) then they look like this;

Leinart; 5 for 8 for 49 yards and an INT for a 40.1 QB rating
Losman; 3 for 5 for 32 yards and an INT for a 39.2 QB rating

[Meathead]

heres how i would grade the recent draft class, considerations include performance, draft position, and the situation

A+ Witner(drafted 8th) - i havent even noticed a single significant mistake, he plays like a veteran, amazing so far
A- Simpson(105) - witner lite. amazing draft steal. considering these two are both rooks and cant lean on the others experience its amazing they havent been baked
A- Ellison(179) - how often does a sixth round rook replace a future hofer and make plays right away
B+ Williams(134) - another who fits right into the defense
D McCargo(26) - considering where he was drafted he has not done enough to distinguish himself
INC Youboty(70), Butler(143), Pennington(216), Merz(248)

[Goobylal]

While I agree the choice was likely the right one, I do believe both Cutler and Leinart will be better QB's than JP down the road. So its all about how and when you choose to evaluate the picks.
It remains to be seen how JP, Cutler, and Leinart turn out. But the point I'm trying to make is that the Bills have TWO players, whereas selecting Cutler or Leinart would have left them with ONE player, since JP would have either been a backup or gone. Unless Cutler or Leinart become HOF'ers, I can't see either being worth JP AND Whitner.

[Goobylal]

D McCargo(26) - considering where he was drafted he has not done enough to distinguish himself
I think that's a little harsh. McCargo has been doing well and was an early-entry junior who was supposed to be a developmental player. Give him a year plus in the strength and conditioning program (the same goes for the rest of the promising rookies) and you'll see a big difference next year. But that's not to say that he's played to a D level this year.

[ublinkwescore]

right...and that's great! Taking a QB would have absolutely nothing to do with JP Losman...it would have been a better business decision.

But it wouldn't be a decision that tells your fanbase you're committed to winning.

[ublinkwescore]

lmao what the hell was gewawo anyway i cant even remember

It was the tao of Meathead...

[ublinkwescore]

heres how i would grade the recent draft class, considerations include performance, draft position, and the situation

A+ Witner(drafted 8th) - i havent even noticed a single significant mistake, he plays like a veteran, amazing so far
A- Simpson(105) - witner lite. amazing draft steal. considering these two are both rooks and cant lean on the others experience its amazing they havent been baked
A- Ellison(179) - how often does a sixth round rook replace a future hofer and make plays right away
B+ Williams(134) - another who fits right into the defense
D McCargo(26) - considering where he was drafted he has not done enough to distinguish himself
INC Youboty(70), Butler(143), Pennington(216), Merz(248)

I think that we need to give McCargo some leeway... he is on the line and that is a position regardless of what side of the ball, or where you line up on that side of the ball that precedent shows typical coming of age requires up to 3 years. However, if we see no progress en route to year 3, I think the Bust label can start being mentioned more frequently. Still, the one potential bust is more than made up for by acquiring starting quality players throughout the rest of the draft, and if Marv did have a brainfart with McCargo, he's already forgiven by me - somehow, I still think McCargo's got some great games ahead of him - maybe even this season.

[Meathead]

i think mccargo has played at a d level compared to what i would have expected to see all things considered. that doesnt at all mean he wont one of these games and certainly doesnt mean hes a bust. but hes shown essentially nothing through four games. even a rook has to make me see his name once in a while

[~CHIEF~]

Marv is Raw!