Does anyone STILL think Nate Clements should be on this team next year?

[OpIv37]

This guy is not worth $7 million at all. He got beat consistently all day and he would have been beat for a touchdown if the ball wasn't thrown about a foot too far. He also missed several tackles.

Does anyone really think this guy deserves to be paid? Shut-down corner, my ass. He hasn't had a good game in almost 2 years. The way he played today is the way he played more often than not.

Yeah, McGee got beat today too. But today was the exception for McGee- he usually doesn't play like this (unlike Clements, whose performance today has become the norm for him). Plus McGee returns kicks. Plus McGee makes a lot less money.

Oh, and don't accuse me of overreacting because of a bad loss- I've been saying this about Clements for a while now. Once every six games he gets an INT and everyone forgets how bad he was for the previous 5 games and I'm sick of it. We need his $7 million for OL and DL upgrades. I'm sure we can pay someone $2 million to watch receivers run down the field and grab air on attempted tackles.

[Mitchy moo]

your right OP, he is useless. $7M would be well spent elsewhere. Lets trade his overpaid *** & get some fresh linemen.

[ICE74129]

I have said it all year, he is half assing it out there. Missing open tackles, won't commit full speed. I don't need to hear it from him or have it in print, I can see it with my own two eyes.

10 more days before the trade deadline, I hope we move him.

[The_Philster]

I have said it all year, he is half assing it out there. Missing open tackles, won't commit full speed. I don't need to hear it from him or have it in print, I can see it with my own two eyes.

10 more days before the trade deadline, I hope we move him.
I don't see him getting traded and here's why. Who's gonna give us anything for him that we can use?

[OpIv37]

10 more days before the trade deadline, I hope we move him.

me too, but we won't.

Why trade a player and get something for him while his perceived value is still high when we can just wait til he's a FA and get nothing in return? It's much better to have a useless player sucking cap space on our roster now and nothing later than to ditch that player and get something in return.

/sarcasm.

[OpIv37]

I don't see him getting traded and here's why. Who's gonna give us anything for him that we can use?

a six-round draft pick would be worth more than his useless ass.

Plus, I don't know exactly how the whole salary cap thing works, but could his leftover cap space from this year be used to extend some guys like McGahee?

[ICE74129]

I don't see him getting traded and here's why. Who's gonna give us anything for him that we can use? I agree and it sucks. I know I would like to have something for him but I doubt we get anything even next year.

Besides marv is stubborn and wouldn't trade him anyway. He is here for the year.

[X-Era]

This guy is not worth $7 million at all. He got beat consistently all day and he would have been beat for a touchdown if the ball wasn't thrown about a foot too far. He also missed several tackles.

Does anyone really think this guy deserves to be paid? Shut-down corner, my ass. He hasn't had a good game in almost 2 years. The way he played today is the way he played more often than not.

Yeah, McGee got beat today too. But today was the exception for McGee- he usually doesn't play like this (unlike Clements, whose performance today has become the norm for him). Plus McGee returns kicks. Plus McGee makes a lot less money.

Oh, and don't accuse me of overreacting because of a bad loss- I've been saying this about Clements for a while now. Once every six games he gets an INT and everyone forgets how bad he was for the previous 5 games and I'm sick of it. We need his $7 million for OL and DL upgrades. I'm sure we can pay someone $2 million to watch receivers run down the field and grab air on attempted tackles.

Im responding to this and just watched Bledsoe give up a fumble.

No, Clements isnt worth 7 mill.

The problem is we are supposed to be getting better every year. If Clements walks, their aint squat in free agency by the looks of it, so that means we need to spend a high draft pick AGAIN to replace a player we currently have. Thats not building, its a push. That also assumes that the draftee comes out day one and plays as good as Clements, thats also a reach.

Why sit on 11 million in cap cash? cant we make the contract incentive ladened and just keep him?

Having a average Clements is better than taking the risk and getting a dud.

[X-Era]

I don't see him getting traded and here's why. Who's gonna give us anything for him that we can use?

I seriously would take Jerry Porter for Clements considering we dont think we can get crap for him anyway.

Theres teams that could use him. I wouldnt mind a OG.

[ICE74129]

Im responding to this and just watched Bledsoe give up a fumble.

No, Clements isnt worth 7 mill.

The problem is we are supposed to be getting better every year. If Clements walks, their aint squat in free agency by the looks of it, so that means we need to spend a high draft pick AGAIN to replace a player we currently have. Thats not building, its a push. That also assumes that the draftee comes out day one and plays as good as Clements, thats also a reach.

Why sit on 11 million in cap cash? cant we make the contract incentive ladened and just keep him?

Having a average Clements is better than taking the risk and getting a dud.
dude the ****ing pidgons had better coverage today than Clements

[DraftBoy]

I seriously would take Jerry Porter for Clements considering we dont think we can get crap for him anyway.

Theres teams that could use him. I wouldnt mind a OG.


Why in gods name do we need another WR??

[OpIv37]

Im responding to this and just watched Bledsoe give up a fumble.

No, Clements isnt worth 7 mill.

The problem is we are supposed to be getting better every year. If Clements walks, their aint squat in free agency by the looks of it, so that means we need to spend a high draft pick AGAIN to replace a player we currently have. Thats not building, its a push. That also assumes that the draftee comes out day one and plays as good as Clements, thats also a reach.

Why sit on 11 million in cap cash? cant we make the contract incentive ladened and just keep him?

Having a average Clements is better than taking the risk and getting a dud.

think he'll accept an incentive-laden contract if the FA market is thin on CB's though? We're not the only team struggling defensively- my guess is that we're going to shell out like crazy to keep him and I just don't think it's worth it.
I understand your point about rebuilding and not ending up in a "push" situation, but if we give Clements the kind of money he thinks he's worth, it limits our ability to improve via FA as well as the draft.

Hell, if he keeps getting as much playing time as he has, K Thomas can probably play at Clements' level next year for a hell of a lot less money, then all we'd need to do is find a nickelback. Youboty or a rookie or a FA could do that.

[ICE74129]

Why in gods name do we need another WR??Well we still don't have a true #2 to take pressure off of Evans. We have 3 #3 types rotating in and out of there.

[LtBillsFan66]

McGee got owned just as well if not more than Nate. That's what happens when you have zero pass rush and no pressure on the QB.

[Michael82]

I heard on WGR earlier in the year that Marv admitted they most likely wouldn't have tagged Clements if they knew his salary cap number would be over $7 million. They had no problem with $5.5 or whatever, so $7 is ridiculous.

[X-Era]

think he'll accept an incentive-laden contract if the FA market is thin on QB's though? We're not the only team struggling defensively- my guess is that we're going to shell out like crazy to keep him and I just don't think it's worth it.
I understand your point about rebuilding and not ending up in a "push" situation, but if we give Clements the kind of money he thinks he's worth, it limits our ability to improve via FA as well as the draft.

Hell, if he keeps getting as much playing time as he has, K Thomas can probably play at Clements' level next year for a hell of a lot less money, then all we'd need to do is find a nickelback. Youboty or a rookie or a FA could do that.

My fear is that K Thomas will look more like Ken Irvin starting than McGee or Clements. If he was worthy of starting he should have.

If this was a wave type position Id say fine. But I seriously think Randy Moss will end up a Fin, Chad Jackson will start to look very good and Coles will continue to be Coles. Do we really want Thomas trying to cover any of those guys alone?

Its not a good situation any way you shake it. If he demands big money, we let him walk. If he goes incentive ladened, another team is liable to pay him more. There is no love by him for the Bills after getting slapped with the tag.

Actually, I would like to keep him just because hes a know quantity and at leats can be solid at times (not today). I just get scared think of screwing around with corners anymore. I also hate the thought of spending yet another high rounder on a DB. Especially when there isnt any DB that looks to be a stud in the next years draft.

[ICE74129]

McGee got owned just as well if not more than Nate. That's what happens when you have zero pass rush and no pressure on the QB.And I said this would happen back at the draft. We should have went Ngata or Bunkley

[The_Philster]

If he's the old Kenny Irvin from back when he was paired up with Thomas Smith, I could live with it for a season or two if I had to. It wasn't until he was switched to RCB that he started having problems.

[X-Era]

Well we still don't have a true #2 to take pressure off of Evans. We have 3 #3 types rotating in and out of there.

Thank you!

Peerless has been a bust since leaving Buffalo. He just had another bad game. But yes, he also had a highlight reel game with the catch for a TD.

I just feel like we need someone who scares the D on the other side and that no team is scared by anyoen other than Evans on our WR corp.

Our best year in the past 6 at least as far as passing goes was when Bledsoe hadsomething to prove and had both Moulds and Peerless to throw to.

We could be nasty with Fairchilds offense and WR's like Arizonas Fitz and Boldin.

[OpIv37]

McGee got owned just as well if not more than Nate. That's what happens when you have zero pass rush and no pressure on the QB.

McGee had an awful game too, like I said. But McGee doesn't usually have awful games and Nate does. This game was an anomaly for McGee and the norm for Clements (who btw makes a hell of a lot more money than McGee despite being not as good of a player).

[X-Era]

And I said this would happen back at the draft. We should have went Ngata or Bunkley
Cant agree with that take.

I like what we did but I must admit that McCargo has not played worthy of his pick yet.

[ICE74129]

Cant agree with that take.

I like what we did but I must admit that McCargo has not played worthy of his pick yet. I have no problems with whitner other than we needed more line. it all starts with the lines and ours still suck.

[X-Era]

I have no problems with whitner other than we needed more line. it all starts with the lines and ours still suck.

I cant disagree per say. My only issue comes with how we do that.

I just think we have drafted enough DT's at this point. We have even drafted plenty of DE's. We havent spent many early rounders on the OL.

Im not sure Id like to see us continue to spend high rounders on DT's. Id like to add a few studs from FA or a trade. I would have loved a move for Abraham (yeah right like that would happen). But Id take a pass rushing DE if we could land one in the mid 1st.

I want us to make moves like the Vikes did for guys like Hutch.

[TacklingDummy]

Making McGee the Bills #1 CB would be a mistake. I guess no one watched him get torched all day today.

[OpIv37]

Making McGee the Bills #1 CB would be a mistake. I guess no one watched him get torched all day today.

once again, McGee doesn't usually get torched. Clements does.

what's the bigger mistake? Making McGee the #1 CB, or overpaying Clements and limiting our cap space for re-signing McGahee, getting OL help, getting DL help, finding replacements for our aging LB's, finding a real FB, etc?

[TacklingDummy]

once again, McGee doesn't usually get torched. Clements does.

what's the bigger mistake? Making McGee the #1 CB, or overpaying Clements and limiting our cap space for re-signing McGahee, getting OL help, getting DL help, finding replacements for our aging LB's, finding a real FB, etc?

I wish I had your answers but I don't.

What's needed on this team is a stud DE. And im not talking Schobel. Schobel is Mr. Invisible 11 games out of the year.

A pass rush would make any secondary better. With or without Clements.

IMO.

[X-Era]

once again, McGee doesn't usually get torched. Clements does.

what's the bigger mistake? Making McGee the #1 CB, or overpaying Clements and limiting our cap space for re-signing McGahee, getting OL help, getting DL help, finding replacements for our aging LB's, finding a real FB, etc?

Right now I agree with resigning McGahee only because we have no better option. Should NO keep Deuce? Hell no.

I wouldnt mind upgrading McGahee either. He hasnt shown that he will carry this team if necessary. He HAS stepped up overall though with being faster, more illusive, and breaking more tackles.

Im not sure I would lock down any position as being "all set" right now. I still think we need better overall talent. NO is better for having Reggie Bush even though they already had Deuce.

[OpIv37]

I wish I had your answers but I don't.

What's needed on this team is a stud DE. And im not talking Schobel. Schobel is Mr. Invisible 11 games out of the year.

A pass rush would make any secondary better. With or without Clements.

IMO.

that would be a great place to start. BTW if there was a dominant DE on the other side, Schobel would look a LOT better. The thing is that Ryan Denney and Chris Kelsay don't scare anyone so teams devote extra attention to blocking Schobel. If he was one on one every play, he still wouldn't be Michael Strahan but he also wouldn't be invisible 11 games a year.

[OpIv37]

Im not sure I would lock down any position as being "all set" right now. I still think we need better overall talent. NO is better for having Reggie Bush even though they already had Deuce.

and that's where i would hesitate in re-signing Clements. It's clear this team needs a lot of help. Ideally you build through the draft, but sometimes that isn't possible- a pick takes 2-3 seasons to develop (depending on position and individual player's skill level), a pick is a bust, there are no players available at a position of need, etc. So sometimes teams have to dip into FA to be successful.

The Donahoe/Dan Snyder model of throwing money at FA's hasn't proven to be as successful as building through the draft, but FA's can fill positions of need and put borderline teams into the playoffs (think of what the addition of Spikes and Fletch did for our D in 2003 compared to 2002).

If we give Clements the Champ Bailey-type money he will want, how are we going to sign FA's?

[Nighthawk]

Clements is terrible and way overpaid. Talk about a poor investment!

[X-Era]

and that's where i would hesitate in re-signing Clements. It's clear this team needs a lot of help. Ideally you build through the draft, but sometimes that isn't possible- a pick takes 2-3 seasons to develop (depending on position and individual player's skill level), a pick is a bust, there are no players available at a position of need, etc. So sometimes teams have to dip into FA to be successful.

The Donahoe/Dan Snyder model of throwing money at FA's hasn't proven to be as successful as building through the draft, but FA's can fill positions of need and put borderline teams into the playoffs (think of what the addition of Spikes and Fletch did for our D in 2003 compared to 2002).

If we give Clements the Champ Bailey-type money he will want, how are we going to sign FA's?

If he signed right now for 5 mill per, we still would be 6 mill under the cap according to clumps numbers.

Next year we will have even MORE money.

[TigerJ]

Clements was missing tackles left and right, that's for sure. I agree he's not worth what he want to be paid. I would not be at all surprised if he walks. I just hope Youboty is ready to step up by then.

[X-Era]

Clements was missing tackles left and right, that's for sure. I agree he's not worth what he want to be paid. I would not be at all surprised if he walks. I just hope Youboty is ready to step up by then.

Chances are good he isnt good enough.

All we can do is try to cover the loss of Clements with stacking other spots. Maybe OLB, maybe ILB, maybe DE, DT.

Our S's will have had a full year to start and should be fully developed to play very well. That will help. McGee is in the fold and is probably more solid than Clements at this point.

[X-Era]

Clements was missing tackles left and right, that's for sure. I agree he's not worth what he want to be paid. I would not be at all surprised if he walks. I just hope Youboty is ready to step up by then.

I think theres a great chance that the Bills will see the loss of Clements as a HUGE loss and will place CB at the top of their wish list for the draft.

Its unfortunate, but thats what I see.

Daymeion Hughes can play and will be there in the mid 1st. But the though of a rookie starting is scarry.

[The_Philster]

I think theres a great chance that the Bills will see the loss of Clements as a HUGE loss and will place CB at the top of their wish list for the draft.

Its unfortunate, but thats what I see.

Daymeion Hughes can play and will be there in the mid 1st. But the though of a rookie starting is scarry.
Nate started as a rookie..a few games into the season.
Anyway, I think Youboty was drafted with the intent of using him to replace Nate next year. It fits in with the John Butler drafting pattern.
We drafted Thomas Smith..the following year he replaced the departing Mickey Washington
Jeff Burris drafted...a year later he replaced Nate Odomes
we went a few years with string CB play from T Smith, Burris, and mid-rd draft picks from the 1995 draft...Marlon Kerner and Ken Irvin
Burris left in 98...Kerner or Irvin was to replace him...Kerner was hurt...retired and Irvin got the job
They drafted Antoine Winfield...a year later he replaced T Smith
drafted Nate...he replaced Ken Irvin a little ahead of schedule

[patmoran2006]

This is why we drated Youboty on day one..

Clements is GONE after this season... I'll take his 7 mill and give it ALL to a game changing DE in a second.

[DynaPaul]

This guy is not worth $7 million at all. He got beat consistently all day and he would have been beat for a touchdown if the ball wasn't thrown about a foot too far. He also missed several tackles.


Clements is a good, solid cornerback but he's not spectacular. Basically Nate is worth an average salary for a CB and isn't deserving of the top 10 money he covets. I don't see us keeping him unless he realizes that and lowers his demands. I don't think that's going to happen and some desperate team will overpay for his services. It's too bad because he's GOOD just not ELITE.

[X-Era]

This is why we drated Youboty on day one..

Clements is GONE after this season... I'll take his 7 mill and give it ALL to a game changing DE in a second.

YES!

I AGREE!!!

Wait...who is that again? We have had shots at guys like Kearse, Howard, Abraham and havent gone after them. Who's the game breaker we are spending our money on?

Come on guys, its too easy to simply say I will spend all my money on x,y, or z. Its much harder to figure out who that will be. Especially when free agency has been so far from an oasis. Any player worth a damn has been franchised. After that its been so so players who have some upside.

If your saying we should make a blockbuster trade for a game changing DE, Im all ears. But I dont think you will go that far, because you will instantly be blasted with "leave that for Madden".

Sorry, but unless you can complete this transaction and tell me even who the game changing DE might be, I cant follow you.

Furthermore, I just did some checking, BOTh Gaines Adams and Quentin Moses are likely top 10 picks. Chances are very good we wont be picking top ten.

Ill say it right now, 5 games into the season, after the following players are gone before our pick, Dwayne Jarrett is the best avialable.

Calvin Johnson
Brady Quinn
Gaines Adams
Joe Thomas
Adrian Peterson
Quentin Moses

They will ALL be gone by our likely pick and Dwayne Jarrett is the best of the rest. Marshawn Lynch is the next best but we have Willis.

Sorry, but DE has a huge drop off after the top 2. Im not sure theres a single DT thats worthy of even a top 15 pick, and outside of Joe Thomas there isnt a OT thats worthy of a top 15 pick either.

I see us sitting at 15.

Mark my words.