Something real SAD about our DT's

[patmoran2006]

You wanna hear something pathetic about out DT's.

Takeo Spikes has played a couple of plays this SEASON.. Well after the Bills have played five games.. Spikes has more sacks (1) and forced fumbles (1) than Larry Tripplett, Tim Anderson, John McCargo and Kyle Williams.. COMBINED.. yes all four of our DT's combined..

I dont expect our DT's to overnight become a dominating unit.. But spin it any way you want, we've played FIVE Games now.. that is SAD

It's time to make some plays.

[Mitchy moo]

Another positive thread, good to see. :clap:

[patmoran2006]

They've also only combined for 33 tackles and that INCLUDES assisted tackles.

[patmoran2006]

I'm not here to be Mr Popularity.. I state my opinions and at least try to offer up facts to support something I say.

It is what it is and our DT play has been pretty lousy when you look at the numbers to this point-- and I'm not talking about just today this is for the entire season.

If you're going to run a SUCCESSFUL cover two, your DT's have to make big plays at some point.

[Mitchy moo]

I'm not here to be Mr Popularity.. I state my opinions and at least try to offer up facts to support something I say.

It is what it is and our DT play has been pretty lousy when you look at the numbers to this point-- and I'm not talking about just today this is for the entire season.

If you're going to run a SUCCESSFUL cover two, your DT's have to make big plays at some point.

It isn't that, we have alot of woe is me threads. Your just adding to that total.

[patmoran2006]

"woe is me"

And I add plenty of positive threads after a good game.. There was NOTHING positive to talk about today other than Lee Evans.

[Dozerdog]

You wanna hear something pathetic about out DT's.

Takeo Spikes has played a couple of plays this SEASON.. Well after the Bills have played five games.. Spikes has more sacks (1) and forced fumbles (1) than Larry Tripplett, Tim Anderson, John McCargo and Kyle Williams.. COMBINED.. yes all four of our DT's combined..

I dont expect our DT's to overnight become a dominating unit.. But spin it any way you want, we've played FIVE Games now.. that is SAD

It's time to make some plays.Before we get Wysonian and use selective stats to prove some inane point-

Please compare our DT stats to other teams. Then I'll evaluate your opinion.

How many forced fumbles, tackles, and sacks do other teams have - more importantly- compare them to teams that we have our defense molded after.

[OpIv37]

Before we get Wysonian and use selective stats to prove some inane point-

Please compare our DT stats to other teams. Then I'll evaluate your opinion.

How many forced fumbles, tackles, and sacks do other teams have - more importantly- compare them to teams that we have our defense molded after.

other teams? who gives a **** what other teams do?

The only stats by other teams that matter are the ones they have on the field against us. So far, we're 2-3 and got thrashed on the ground in the 3 losses. Our DL didn't get sufficient pressure in 4 of the 5 games and they're not making any big plays.

**** other teams- our DT's have to start contributing to THIS team, not trying to stack up with the rest of the league.

[Dozerdog]

other teams? who gives a **** what other teams do?

The only stats by other teams that matter are the ones they have on the field against us. So far, we're 2-3 and got thrashed on the ground in the 3 losses. Our DL didn't get sufficient pressure in 4 of the 5 games and they're not making any big plays.

**** other teams- our DT's have to start contributing to THIS team, not trying to stack up with the rest of the league.

Welll DUH..if you pick a stat for a position that doesn't get a lot of sacks, forced fumbles, tackles...ect.... then yeah- I want to know what the "successful" TEAMS GARNER AT THOSE POSITIONS.

[OpIv37]

Welll DUH..if you pick a stat for a position that doesn't get a lot of sacks, forced fumbles, tackles...ect.... then yeah- I want to know what the "successful" TEAMS GARNER AT THOSE POSITIONS.

you can debate whether or not patmoran's stat is a valid measure of our DT's effectiveness, but our DT's are NOT GOOD ENOUGH regardless of the outcome of that debate.

[patmoran2006]

Before we get Wysonian and use selective stats to prove some inane point-

Please compare our DT stats to other teams. Then I'll evaluate your opinion.

How many forced fumbles, tackles, and sacks do other teams have - more importantly- compare them to teams that we have our defense molded after.

Sure. I'll give you a few. A couple of cover-two style teams as well.

CHicago: 7 sacks and 2 forced fumbles from their DT's. 5 by Harris and 1 by Boone.

Indy: 3 sacks and 2 forced fumbles from their DT's. Brock has two sacks and Reagor one, each has a forced fumble as well. and combined they already have 26 tackles. Their backup (Reid) also has nine tackles..

Detroit (yes even the 0-5 Detroit Lions). Their starters at least have two sacks from the DT position (Rogers and Jackson).

Except for a couple decent pressures by Tripplett, we've gotten next to nothing from our DT play this year.

Hope this is a little proof.

[YardRat]

They need a full sixteen game season before they can be fairly evaluated. Or is it 30??

:D

[Ingtar33]

i'd not bang on the some of the DTs, and believe me im not a fan of any of them

but rookie DTs tend to stink. no matter where they're drafted. It can take a DT (to round out into a good pro) a solid 3-5 years.

example from bills history: The 49ers gave up on Ted Washington after 3 years, then the Broncos gave up on him after 1 year, before he landed in Buffalo... a 4 year pro, and largely a flop.

[patmoran2006]

i'd not bang on the some of the DTs, and believe me im not a fan of any of them

but rookie DTs tend to stink. no matter where they're drafted. It can take a DT (to round out into a good pro) a solid 3-5 years.

example from bills history: The 49ers gave up on Ted Washington after 3 years, then the Broncos gave up on him after 1 year, before he landed in Buffalo... a 4 year pro, and largely a flop.
Triplett isnt a rookie and Anderson isnt either.. its Anderson's third year I think and we didnt pay good money for Tripplett to merely be adequate.

[Typ0]

I'll agree with one thing especially in reference to yestday--it's time to make some plays. While we probably still would have gotten beat had we actually made some of those plays (offense, defense, special teams) it would have been a game. I can't remember ever seeing so many blown opportunities by an NFL team.

[TedMock]

The DT's played poorly yesterday, but it has nothing to do with stats. You cannot possibly use stats as a barometer for DT's. I don't like stats as a measurement for any player, but they're especially useless when it comes to DT's. Depending on the scheme, DT's in general have various responibilities, but they never usually include a bunch of tackles or sacks. There are obvious exceptions to the rule and they are usually stud DT's at the end of the year. Most of your solid DT's are not generating numbers, but helping your LB's get numbers.

I know the DT's played poorly yesterday because I watched the game not because I read the stat line. We have to all be smarter than that. I've also seen Tripplett have a couple of VERY GOOD games this year without generating one tackle or sack.

[Coach Sal]

The DT's played poorly yesterday, but it has nothing to do with stats. You cannot possibly use stats as a barometer for DT's. I don't like stats as a measurement for any player, but they're especially useless when it comes to DT's. Depending on the scheme, DT's in general have various responibilities, but they never usually include a bunch of tackles or sacks. There are obvious exceptions to the rule and they are usually stud DT's at the end of the year. Most of your solid DT's are not generating numbers, but helping your LB's get numbers.

I know the DT's played poorly yesterday because I watched the game not because I read the stat line. We have to all be smarter than that. I've also seen Tripplett have a couple of VERY GOOD games this year without generating one tackle or sack.

What you write is true about stats not being a good measure for DT's, especially concerning the dependency upon schemes. But I think Pat's point is that this scheme is set up for DT's to make plays. Even if they don't show up on the stat sheet, the DT's in this defense are supposed to penetrate and disrupt, not just control their gap for the LB's to make plays.

Personally, I've seen our DT's hot and cold this season. There are times when they've impressed me by creating plays, then other times (like yesterday) where they are getting blown off the ball and/or being so undisciplined in their assignments that they help to create huge running lanes towards our undersized backers.

[justasportsfan]

Screw that stats. We need DT's that can't be pushed arround. Parrish could block our DT's. Too many speedy DT's. Just because they're fast doesn't mean they can't be pushed that ends up opening holes.

Maybe we can get Ted Washington just to clog up the middle and get rid of Davis.

[bigbub2352]

What game is everyone watching patmoran2006 is right on the money, guys we r 2-3 and the two teams we beat are so overatted, Tim Anderson himself said all he did was get thrown around, Larry Triplett is a bum, or he is not being utilized prorperly he has done nothing to warrant his contract, he has no tackles no sacks, and if his stats show otherwise they are lieing to help the fans fell better about signing this guy, Were is Kyle Williams ,adn John McCargo, they have done nothing since the preseason, Tim Anderson is a absolute bum and because he had two tackles against Minn people think he can play, i have never seen a DT on his back or pushed aside more in his career in my entire life, we need some serious upgrades on our Dline, any one know who 94 is on the feild all i see is 5million a season getting pushed around at will, no secondary moves, Denney went right back to his useless self, and so did Kelsay 3 games in a row with 1 sack or less from our Dline, Nice thats is how u build a contender