What do we have to do To Stop the Rebuilding???

[bigbub2352]

I wanna know what everyones take is on exactly how we get out of our funk of not being a serious team, i mean really we have been for the better part of a decade looked at as a joke, with the exception of a 9-7 season in which we didnt make the playoffs

1. We need to get some real Olineman in here none of these stop gap bums like Chris Villereal, Mike Gandy, Melvin Fowler, and Tutan Reyes

2. We need to get some real DLine in here no more back ups starting like Larry Tripplett (4 tackles in 5 games is awful), Tim Anderson, Kyle Williams (giving the benefit of the doubt because he is a rookie), Chris Kelsay, and Ryan Denney guys the experiment is over with these 2

3. Secondary in my opinion is one player away from outstanding coverage will improve with a better pass rush but still burned way to frequently, Nate will be gone and is not worth no were near 7million ayear

4. Get a real TE in here PLEASE, 2 catches in 5 games what the **** is that ****!

5. QB, either JP needs to be more consistent or we need to llok elsewhere, 3rd yr QB is making way to many errors with the ball

6. Get a real FB in here one that can catch and block not someone who cant clear the whole and constantly gets penalties because he cant remeber the snap count

I thinik we really need to take a hard look at this roster at the end of the year and really b e a player in FA, and accumulate some draft picks and get some real players in here otherwise we are DOOMED!!!

[Night Train]

That's it. Make 25 roster changes.

That will stop the rebuilding.

[Forward_Lateral]

Win. That's the ONLY way to stop rebuilding.

[RedEyE]

That's it. Make 25 roster changes.

That will stop the rebuilding.

:rofl:

[RedEyE]

http://www.thatsacoolshirt.com/products_img/33_111.jpg

[Devin]

That's it. Make 25 roster changes.

That will stop the rebuilding.

:roflmao:

nice.

Solidify the lines. Thats all we need right now.

[Mr. Pink]

The main problem, well 2, this team has now and has had for the past 5 years.....

Talent in the trenches. We can't block worth a damn and as of the last two years now we can't stop the run worth a damn. Shore up both sides of the lines and we'd instantly be better.

Coaching...now even this year....Our coaching and gameplanning the past 5 years has been simply attrocious. We get guys who overthink and overanalyze what to do instead of just attacking. Before you go well DICK doesn't do that, just look to last week and the botched 4th down attempt. If you're gonna go for it, just go for it. Or the fake FG pass attempt to Peters...each week it seems we do something absolutely ******ed due to pisspoor coaching decisions.

Fix both of those problems...and we're a contender. Now how many years it will take to fix either is another story entirely.

[bflojohn]

One more offseason like the one the Bills JUST had.... There should be money for the free agency period and the draft already has presidence, by way of 2006. The Bills WILL contend in 2007!!!

[bigbub2352]

So i guess some people out there like the product on the feild, Anybody with any kinda of football sense says everytime they talk about the bills, John Murphy, Mark kelso, Ed Kilgore, Adam Benini, Vic Carucci, Chris Berman, Paul Peck when they say this team is along way away and needs more talent, i guess they are all wrong too, Inferior product=Inferioir results be happy with that,alot of teams turnover there roster every year and contend why cant we

[TacklingDummy]

1) There's no such thing as rebuilding.

2) Talent

[Inetpub]

Rebuilding is a term loosely associated with a crappy team. All GMS/Coaches/Players use this term all too often. It just sounds more professional than a GM going out to press conferences and saying "This year our team stinks!" or a coach saying "My players have no talent!"

noticed how long we have been "rebuilding" and really the only non-rebuilding year inbetween were the 10-6 season we had with Bledsoe. We were ranked 3rd with JP losman at the helm in the year that followed then BOOM!! We are "rebuilding" thanks to Mike Mularkey and Tom Donohoe.

Lets just call a duck a duck for once. Rebuilding means "Our Team Stinks"!

[X-Era]

I wanna know what everyones take is on exactly how we get out of our funk of not being a serious team, i mean really we have been for the better part of a decade looked at as a joke, with the exception of a 9-7 season in which we didnt make the playoffs

1. We need to get some real Olineman in here none of these stop gap bums like Chris Villereal, Mike Gandy, Melvin Fowler, and Tutan Reyes

2. We need to get some real DLine in here no more back ups starting like Larry Tripplett (4 tackles in 5 games is awful), Tim Anderson, Kyle Williams (giving the benefit of the doubt because he is a rookie), Chris Kelsay, and Ryan Denney guys the experiment is over with these 2

3. Secondary in my opinion is one player away from outstanding coverage will improve with a better pass rush but still burned way to frequently, Nate will be gone and is not worth no were near 7million ayear

4. Get a real TE in here PLEASE, 2 catches in 5 games what the **** is that ****!

5. QB, either JP needs to be more consistent or we need to llok elsewhere, 3rd yr QB is making way to many errors with the ball

6. Get a real FB in here one that can catch and block not someone who cant clear the whole and constantly gets penalties because he cant remeber the snap count

I thinik we really need to take a hard look at this roster at the end of the year and really b e a player in FA, and accumulate some draft picks and get some real players in here otherwise we are DOOMED!!!

Its pretty damn easy actually IMO.

We need to stop listening to the penny pinchers here, stop listening to the guys that want to hoard draft picks. We have tried both for the past decade and it hasnt worked.

We need to go out and get young players who are proven studs at an appropriate cost. Notice I didnt say at any cost, and appropriate cost. If theres a young star at a position that we arent that great at and that player can be had for a high draft pick, make the trade.

If it means we go and sign others teams franchised player with a poison pill, so be it.

If it means we pay top dollar for top talent, so be it.

I dont want to over pay vets on the wrong side of 30. I also dont want to stand pat in the draft and lose out on the few select blue chippers either, they can make a big impact as well.

If it means a move up for someone who we believe is a game changer, make the move.

Ims ick of the status quo and without major waves, thats where we will remain.

A team landed Steve Hutchinson last year. LeCharles Bentley was signed. Javon Walker was traded, Champ Bailey was traded, Clinton Portis was traded. Drew Brees was on the market. Reggie Bush DIDNT go #1.

Every year there are a few players that can change your game. We just have o take some risks and get a few of those players.

I dont want stupidity like Dallas or Washington. But can I argue with what Denver has done the past few years? no.

Even the Pats are willing to sign guys that are out there even if they already have players.

To upgrade your team, you must be willing to spend more money and draft higher, you must be willing to invest in your team if your going to expect to get better.

Although, we had a banner year for arguing to build through the draft with so many youngsters playing well, thats a crap shoot, it has bit us many times, and we cant rely solely on this option.

Its time to make waves, plain and simple.

[bigbub2352]

So how is that different from me saying we need to spend money on FA, and get some more draft picks, dont u have to trade to get more draft picks, if u r signing guys in there prime like we did in TKO, Posey, Fletcher, Teague, and way over spend to get them here then isnt that the wrong way, Remeber u still gotta sell the area and playing here, which is what i think our biggest problem is, we have sucked for a long time, We need to get Players in here not names, It is pretty damn easy to say isnt it

[Typ0]

it's nice to get all those great players but they have to be available. You need to build a big part of your team though the draft first of all...secondly, we need some consistency as far as the system we are playing. That means we need to stop the revolving door of coaching staffs. I hope DJ is it and he can put a system together that will start to work. Because, what follows up what I said about building the team through the draft is you need to have a system in place to develop these players and then let them play into their prime within that system. Keep replacing the system and you are shooting yourself in the foot because a) you drafted players to fit the current system and b) the young guys have their heads spinning by the changes.

[Night Train]

:roflmao:

Solidify the lines. Thats all we need right now.

Precisely.

A new coaching scheme and many young players add up to some bumps right now. Fletcher and Clements may be replaced after the season, due to expired contracts and expense.

The Draft/FA period should consist of 2 OL, 2 LB's and 2 DL. Backups will be shuffled in and out. But lets allow the roster to actually grow and make only the needed moves.

[Typ0]

I agree the lines need work and have for a while...but I also think it's far overstated around here about the lines. Give these guys time to play together in a consistent system and the lines will play better just like they are. It's not all about grabbing tons of talent for the lines...it's about working with what you have and building a system that works that the guys understand and know how to execute.

[John Doe]

The main problem, well 2, this team has now and has had for the past 5 years.....

Talent in the trenches. We can't block worth a damn and as of the last two years now we can't stop the run worth a damn. Shore up both sides of the lines and we'd instantly be better.

Coaching...now even this year....Our coaching and gameplanning the past 5 years has been simply attrocious. We get guys who overthink and overanalyze what to do instead of just attacking. Before you go well DICK doesn't do that, just look to last week and the botched 4th down attempt. If you're gonna go for it, just go for it. Or the fake FG pass attempt to Peters...each week it seems we do something absolutely ******ed due to pisspoor coaching decisions.

Fix both of those problems...and we're a contender. Now how many years it will take to fix either is another story entirely.

If we "...can't block worth a damn.." then how will "just attacking" help the cause?

[X-Era]

I agree the lines need work and have for a while...but I also think it's far overstated around here about the lines. Give these guys time to play together in a consistent system and the lines will play better just like they are. It's not all about grabbing tons of talent for the lines...it's about working with what you have and building a system that works that the guys understand and know how to execute.

Your opinion could work if we have something new to what we have had in the past decade. But overall, I cant say the talent is much better overall. Its a give here, a take there, but NOT a major improvement in the past decade. If you tell me coaching is the big difference that can make average talent play well, Id buy that. But what data do we have to say that we have adequate coaching?

Ive said this all along. All things being the same in the past decade, we need MAJOR upgrades in our overall talent.

[Mr. Cynical]

I wanna know what everyones take is on exactly how we get out of our funk of not being a serious team, i mean really we have been for the better part of a decade looked at as a joke, with the exception of a 9-7 season in which we didnt make the playoffs

1. We need to get some real Olineman in here none of these stop gap bums like Chris Villereal, Mike Gandy, Melvin Fowler, and Tutan Reyes

2. We need to get some real DLine in here no more back ups starting like Larry Tripplett (4 tackles in 5 games is awful), Tim Anderson, Kyle Williams (giving the benefit of the doubt because he is a rookie), Chris Kelsay, and Ryan Denney guys the experiment is over with these 2

3. Secondary in my opinion is one player away from outstanding coverage will improve with a better pass rush but still burned way to frequently, Nate will be gone and is not worth no were near 7million ayear

4. Get a real TE in here PLEASE, 2 catches in 5 games what the **** is that ****!

5. QB, either JP needs to be more consistent or we need to llok elsewhere, 3rd yr QB is making way to many errors with the ball

6. Get a real FB in here one that can catch and block not someone who cant clear the whole and constantly gets penalties because he cant remeber the snap count

I thinik we really need to take a hard look at this roster at the end of the year and really b e a player in FA, and accumulate some draft picks and get some real players in here otherwise we are DOOMED!!!

I know this isn't the popular answer but this team will never be competitive and have a real shot at the SB until we get a new owner IMO. He had the chance to give it one last shot before he leaves the game, but with his choice of ML and Dick, I think it is clear how the game has passed him by (understandable for a man his age)

Neg away but that's how I see it...JMO.

[Ingtar33]

When Ralph dies, the Bills will leave Buffalo.

anyone who thinks otherwise is smoking some good stuff.

I hate to lay it out like that... but we're watching the last decade of Buffalo Bills football.

[patmoran2006]

The main problem, well 2, this team has now and has had for the past 5 years.....

Talent in the trenches. We can't block worth a damn and as of the last two years now we can't stop the run worth a damn. Shore up both sides of the lines and we'd instantly be better.

Coaching...now even this year....Our coaching and gameplanning the past 5 years has been simply attrocious. We get guys who overthink and overanalyze what to do instead of just attacking. Before you go well DICK doesn't do that, just look to last week and the botched 4th down attempt. If you're gonna go for it, just go for it. Or the fake FG pass attempt to Peters...each week it seems we do something absolutely ******ed due to pisspoor coaching decisions.

Fix both of those problems...and we're a contender. Now how many years it will take to fix either is another story entirely.
I agree.. and the one other thing I think they need is a RELIABLE, SKILLED tight end who can be a security blanket for JP Losman and help him reach his potential, such as what Antonio Gates did for Brees.

[Typ0]

Your opinion could work if we have something new to what we have had in the past decade. But overall, I cant say the talent is much better overall. Its a give here, a take there, but NOT a major improvement in the past decade. If you tell me coaching is the big difference that can make average talent play well, Id buy that. But what data do we have to say that we have adequate coaching?

Ive said this all along. All things being the same in the past decade, we need MAJOR upgrades in our overall talent.

what I'm saying is we need upgrades in talent but part of the process of getting those upgrades is breeding talent through the draft and having a consistent system in place for them to progress in.

Every coach has an idea about the system they think will be most successful. Granted, good coaches will adapt to the players but still they have an overall philosophy of what they want on the field. You can't draft under GW philosophy one year, MM the next and DJ a few years later and not expect to have the types of players that specifally fit within the system DJ is implemention. To make things worse, the talent we have been breeding through the draft the past five years is hardly ready to make the major adjustments of a new system every few years. They need time to develop into seasoned pro's before they can make those adjustments.

In short, you aren't going to go into FA and build a complete team. You need to do a lot of the core building through the draft. And changing coaches and systems every few years shoots that process in the foot. Hence, we need a consistent coaching staff in order to really be competitive on a consistent basis.

[ronbaskin]

Start by firing assistant GM Tom Modrak and pro personnel director John Guy. They're responsible for the scouting operation and--as if you haven't already noticed--they haven't done a very good job. There is talent out there to be had at a reasonable price. Other teams do it, and they accomplish it with superior scouting.

The Bills wasted a draft choice to move back into the first round to pick John McCargo. The fact that this 300 pound kid missed five games last season after suffering a stress fracture in his foot apparently didn't sound the alarm for the Buffalo scouts. How about now that he's broken the same foot and cashed a huge first round bonus check? I might have drafted him, but not in the first round.

Donte Whitner is a fine player, but he's not the player Buffalo needed at the top of the draft. Think about it for a moment. The 2006 Bills are suffering from the exact same problems that doomed the team in 2005. They can't stop the run. Safeties don't help solve that problem. It's like buying a quart of oil for your car when you're out of gas.

You're right. Sound, fundamental football has been tossed out the window. Ever think how you'd feel as a player to work hard to get into field goal range and have the coach call a fake punt or go for it on fourth down? You miss and you take points off the board. Always extend your lead.

Buffalo needs somebody who can push the pile in short yardage situations, and that is not Willis McGahee. They can sign a fullback, let A-Train see what he can do, but on third and short Willis isn't the guy.

How about finding somebody who can free Lee Evans from double coverage. Peerless Price, Josh Reed, Andre Davis and Sam Aiken can't do it.

Yeah, it's going to take 25 roster changes. They don't have to all come at once, but they must be made. Let's start with the O-Line. Add a couple of run-stuffing DTs. And, while we're at it, get rid of Perry Fewell who somehow believes you can put smurfs up front and have them hold up against the better offensive lines. The evidence is in. Right now, I'm looking for the real DTs.

[patmoran2006]

Start by firing assistant GM Tom Modrak and pro personnel director John Guy. They're responsible for the scouting operation and--as if you haven't already noticed--they haven't done a very good job. There is talent out there to be had at a reasonable price. Other teams do it, and they accomplish it with superior scouting.

The Bills wasted a draft choice to move back into the first round to pick John McCargo. The fact that this 300 pound kid missed five games last season after suffering a stress fracture in his foot apparently didn't sound the alarm for the Buffalo scouts. How about now that he's broken the same foot and cashed a huge first round bonus check? I might have drafted him, but not in the first round.

Donte Whitner is a fine player, but he's not the player Buffalo needed at the top of the draft. Think about it for a moment. The 2006 Bills are suffering from the exact same problems that doomed the team in 2005. They can't stop the run. Safeties don't help solve that problem. It's like buying a quart of oil for your car when you're out of gas.

You're right. Sound, fundamental football has been tossed out the window. Ever think how you'd feel as a player to work hard to get into field goal range and have the coach call a fake punt or go for it on fourth down? You miss and you take points off the board. Always extend your lead.

Buffalo needs somebody who can push the pile in short yardage situations, and that is not Willis McGahee. They can sign a fullback, let A-Train see what he can do, but on third and short Willis isn't the guy.

How about finding somebody who can free Lee Evans from double coverage. Peerless Price, Josh Reed, Andre Davis and Sam Aiken can't do it.

Yeah, it's going to take 25 roster changes. They don't have to all come at once, but they must be made. Let's start with the O-Line. Add a couple of run-stuffing DTs. And, while we're at it, get rid of Perry Fewell who somehow believes you can put smurfs up front and have them hold up against the better offensive lines. The evidence is in. Right now, I'm looking for the real DTs.
Despite the fact that 95% of the people on here are going to "groan" you.. Get personal with you.. or not even bother to respond at all outside of anything personal, Im going to respond to your opinions as objectively as I can. I agree with you on some things, and disagree on others. So in no particular order.

* I disagree with your assessment of the draft-- For the most part. I entirely disagree about your feelings towards Whitner... Think back to April-- what linemen on either side of the ball was worthy of being the 8th pick outside of Brick? Ngata is a good run stuffer but doesn't fit a system we seem determined to build. I'm anything but sold on Bunkley, though he could turn out just fine. Whitner in my opinion is going to be a special player, and Im not being a homer on this; I really like his ability, tackling and instincts. I think you're underestimating the significance of a rock solid, playmaking safety. Look at what Troy P has done for Pittsburgh, he changed the entire dynamic of that defense. Whitner may not be the IMMEDIATE answer but I think in time he will be one of the better safeties in the league. If you really preferred Bunkley, then you have to use the trade-down route. I dont dislike the pick at all (though personally, I would've taken Cutler-but thats another debate for another time).

* I do agree with you about McCargo. I think he was a bad pick for 26th overall-- especially KNOWING that we had Triplett and McCargo would be little more than a rotational tackle... I think Marv totally dropped the ball by not drafting a stud of a center in Nick Mangold, and they'll regret if for years to come.. HOwever, I wont blast Marv, GUy or Modrak for this draft because overall it was very good. If they go 5-6 in the first five rounds, I'll gladly take it. Youboty and Simpson are going to be steals, and Kyle Willams and Ellison at worst will be servicable, especially in regards to where we got them.


* I also TOTALLY disagree with you about Perry Fewel. I think he's going to do a great job.. As for the smurfs, I think he's kind of inherited Kelsay, Schobel, Anderson and Denney. I highly doubt Kelsay (FA) and Anderson (bum) will be back next year. In fact I'll bet the defensive transformation continues with two new DL will be one of if not our top free agency priority. Give this team more talent on the line next season and Fewel's system will work great.

* Your on the money with Lee Evans.. Our other WR's are all inconsistent and at best #3's.. We definitely need someone to take some heat off Evans, he'd be scary if he got more one on one coverage.

* I also agree with you about a need for a better short yardage back. The Giants employ that system sucessfully with Barber often coming out in short yardage.

* Lastly, you didnt touch on this much... But the offensive line needs improving.. They are "Ok" right now.. But being OK is not good enough.. Peters has potential to be very good, and I can live with Reyes for the long haul.. But Villarrial is garbage, Preston is good as a backup in spot duty, and Fowler is average among NFL centers. Gandy isnt good enough to be a steady left tackle, he got SCHOOLED by a rookie Sunday (Anderson). We need an OL that is better than just average--and thats all they are now.. thats especially not good for a young, raw, sometimes great and sometimes ******ed quarterback.

[Mr. Cynical]

When Ralph dies, the Bills will leave Buffalo.

anyone who thinks otherwise is smoking some good stuff.

I hate to lay it out like that... but we're watching the last decade of Buffalo Bills football.

You might be right if LA doesn't get a team before Ralph is ready to sell. Otherwise I think Golisano may step up and be the hero.

[Typ0]

gonna win that cup!

[Night Train]

When Ralph dies, the Bills will leave Buffalo.

anyone who thinks otherwise is smoking some good stuff.

I hate to lay it out like that... but we're watching the last decade of Buffalo Bills football.

I've been hearing that since 1969, when Ralph threatened to move to Seattle after the Cottrell Lancaster stadium deal fell apart.

And yet 37 years later, here we are.

You can " lay it out " all you want... but it's nothing more than smack at this point.

[X-Era]

what I'm saying is we need upgrades in talent but part of the process of getting those upgrades is breeding talent through the draft and having a consistent system in place for them to progress in.

Every coach has an idea about the system they think will be most successful. Granted, good coaches will adapt to the players but still they have an overall philosophy of what they want on the field. You can't draft under GW philosophy one year, MM the next and DJ a few years later and not expect to have the types of players that specifally fit within the system DJ is implemention. To make things worse, the talent we have been breeding through the draft the past five years is hardly ready to make the major adjustments of a new system every few years. They need time to develop into seasoned pro's before they can make those adjustments.

In short, you aren't going to go into FA and build a complete team. You need to do a lot of the core building through the draft. And changing coaches and systems every few years shoots that process in the foot. Hence, we need a consistent coaching staff in order to really be competitive on a consistent basis.

No disagreement at all with your concept.

Your right, part of the problem is that the Bills dont stay with one regime, coords, or schemes long enough to build a team that can work under it.

However, we cant get people here to be patient while JP grows, but we can ask them to stick with say a GW plan for some part of say 5 or 6 years with no playoffs? The answer is they may have to.

But, if your impatient and dont want to wait until everyone fully knows the schemes and all you starters are fully developed, you get players who can play your schemes from FA and the draft.

What you propose would work if we were firmly convinced that any HC, OC, and DC was exactly what we needed. Convinced enough to withstand many non-playoff years to develop in to a powerhouse.

My point is only that we have been conservative overall with our approach to Free Agency in the past few years, and for a team that calims to be serious about wanting to compete, I see that as an oxymoron.

[bigbub2352]

I agree with alot of what has been said, i think that coaching and pro personnel need to step up and need to start making better decisions with this roster otherwise we are destined to be the North version of the AZ cardinals

[bledslow]

Start kelly holcomb and tbere ya go...bills would have beaten he pats and jets if he was starting-Jp misses to many chances on the field with his bad reads,i see a lot of bill receivers wide open that jp misses..jp is just terrible,and im not just saying that because jp is gay(supposedly).

[X-Era]

Start kelly holcomb and tbere ya go...bills would have beaten he pats and jets if he was starting-Jp misses to many chances on the field with his bad reads,i see a lot of bill receivers wide open that jp misses..jp is just terrible,and im not just saying that because jp is gay(supposedly).

At least he didnt lose the game in the red zone by throwing an INT returned like 102 yards for a TD in a game they should have won.

I hope TO runs Blew-Dreadfully-So rigt out of town and then TO gets run out of town by an anrgy mob.