Im sick of many posts here

[X-Era]

I will give 500 ZB's and posrep (yeah my big 6 or 7), to anyone who can give details on how exactly we can fix our lines in the next year.

I mean who, and how. Details. Theres scores of us that blast away at the lines but provide no real details on how to fix them.

Give me plausible, tangible details where most of us would agree its a) a big upgrade, b) a do-able scenario.

I bet most of you cant do it, hell Id even give you a 2 year plan.

[Typ0]

it's the same old arguement....Levy has done nothing to fix the lines...TD did nothing to fix the lines. I'd like a list of what big moves in the last offseason were actually AVAILABLE to fix the lines myself instead of a bunch of whining about how bad they are.

[X-Era]

it's the same old arguement....Levy has done nothing to fix the lines...TD did nothing to fix the lines. I'd like a list of what big moves in the last offseason were actually AVAILABLE to fix the lines myself instead of a bunch of whining about how bad they are.

Then you agree with this post and its follow on. If you cant think of a solution, then you ought to just STFU.

Ill give mine, it will be blasted away at of course by those that have some tangible reason to care about Ralph's bank account, and our draft picks.

Your on the money here. Many like to whine, but cant think up a solution, WOW thats hard! I can get my 3 year old girl to do that.

[RedEyE]

Dude, you are all freaking riled up and spitting in the faces of the wrong people. Why don't you take a step back, breathe and come back when you're refreshed.

[X-Era]

Dude, you are all freaking riled up and spitting in the faces of the wrong people. Why don't you take a step back, breathe and come back when you're refreshed.

Hold up here.

Im only counter attacking the notions that the we could have easily fixed our current mess. I dont believe thats true without big trades, or spending big money.

Im making the arguement that if you dont want to spend big money or make big trades, you place your faith solely on the draft and its a crapshoot.

Thats like placing all your money in Enron stocks, it might work or it might go belly up.

We need to show the same intensity to the offseason that we need to show on the field. The car is built in the offseason, its road tested and tuned during the season. We have been basically in-effecient thus far.

Theres no blame here on Marv, hes too new, but there also isnt anything tangible to point to and say Marv made that move that fixed us in such and so a way. The draft is about it and that alone wont fix this team.

[OpIv37]

I don't follow other teams and FA enough to really answer the question. But think about it this way: Does every OL and DL in the NFL blow as bad as ours? Obvious answer: No. That means there's guys out there who don't suck, and they're on teams that are NOT the Buffalo Bills. Did the Bills ever have the opportunity to build an OL that's as good as, say, NE's OL? Probably not, but to think that the Bills had no shot at any of the offensive or defensive linemen that are excelling for other teams is just plain ridiculous.

One example: Bryant McKinney was picked LATER in the same draft where we got Mike Williams. And we all know how that worked out.

[eyedog]

Well since they already past on the Ngata @ Justice draft they could of had, we will look to next year with their 1st pick, and most likely a high one at that.

Long-Mich., Thomas-Wisc., Baker-S.Calif.

A couple of jr.'s there but will probably come out. Throw in Brown from Penn St.

There is your first pick. Unless of course there is some d-back or wide receiver we can't live without.

[ICE74129]

Bottom line, TRADE THE **** UP TO GET TOP LINEMEN!

What would a top LT be worth? Two firsts? HELL YES! If some franchised cat comes available, give him a block buster deal and trade the damn picks. OR Move UP no matter what and get a guy like DBrick.


This **** of stay where we are and see what falls to us isn't going to cut it.

[ublinkwescore]

Lines aren't exactly the easiest thing to build - especially on the O side.

They take time to Gel, any time you bring in a free agent signing, you better hope he doesn't get hurt (see Cleveland), and if you try to build them through the draft, it's gonna take the youth a couple seasons minimum to really hit their stride.

Either way, we're very possibly boned next year too - unless Levy can pull off a few moves like he tried this year (when he went after that guy who was franchised by Arizona - and then Arizona matched the offer)...

My point is, our best shot at getting a decent line in here next year would be through free agency, but we still need to draft heavily on the O line early in the draft to get the best possible prospects - unfortunately, we'll need to replace pretty much every one on the line minus Peters - they are unfortunately that bad - and I'd start with Villarial and Gandy.

[chernobylwraiths]

It looks like the only way to improve the Oline is to give a boatload of money to a top FA. I think Ingtar even said this, that the only position that you can truely upgrade in FA better than in the draft is Oline, where it takes a couple years to even see if an Olineman will be any good. Mike Williams, Robert Gallery, Leonard Davis are all very high drafted Olinemen that are considered not very good but were considered a lock at draft time.

[Mahdi]

Lines aren't exactly the easiest thing to build - especially on the O side.

They take time to Gel, any time you bring in a free agent signing, you better hope he doesn't get hurt (see Cleveland), and if you try to build them through the draft, it's gonna take the youth a couple seasons minimum to really hit their stride.

Either way, we're very possibly boned next year too - unless Levy can pull off a few moves like he tried this year (when he went after that guy who was franchised by Arizona - and then Arizona matched the offer)...

My point is, our best shot at getting a decent line in here next year would be through free agency, but we still need to draft heavily on the O line early in the draft to get the best possible prospects - unfortunately, we'll need to replace pretty much every one on the line minus Peters - they are unfortunately that bad - and I'd start with Villarial and Gandy.
I dont think we have to replace everyone on the O-line, Reyes and Folwer are doing well its Gandy and Villarial that need to go.

[ublinkwescore]

I dont think we have to replace everyone on the O-line, Reyes and Folwer are doing well its Gandy and Villarial that need to go.

If the opportunity arises to upgrade them - and it will, I think we've got to go for it.

I think poor Oline play has been our biggest Achilles Heel for the almost the entire last decade.

I want to see some probowler Olinemen - yes after we've seen the crap that Buffalo has fielded, they will be worth the money.

[ublinkwescore]

A good example (I'm not a drew fan either, but it helps me illustrate a point) - Drew Bledsoe has a line in Dallas (granted he will get fat on some sorry teams), and we all know Dallas will probably be in the playoffs this year.

[ublinkwescore]

Come to think of it, I haven't heard Fowler's name at all this year - I mean litterally not once - that's usually a good sign for Olinemen.

Reyes, I've heard a couple times.

[Typ0]

Bottom line, TRADE THE **** UP TO GET TOP LINEMEN!

What would a top LT be worth? Two firsts? HELL YES! If some franchised cat comes available, give him a block buster deal and trade the damn picks. OR Move UP no matter what and get a guy like DBrick.


This **** of stay where we are and see what falls to us isn't going to cut it.

we used a top pick on a LT. We paid him handsomly and ended up cutting him because he was a bust. Drafting at this position is not the answer. We need a stud FA at LT who has a healthy career.

OK...now going back to the jist of the thread...where is there one available?

[raphael120]

Fix the lines? That's EASY. SIGN SOME ****ING TALENT!!!!

[Typ0]

Then you agree with this post and its follow on. If you cant think of a solution, then you ought to just STFU.

Ill give mine, it will be blasted away at of course by those that have some tangible reason to care about Ralph's bank account, and our draft picks.

Your on the money here. Many like to whine, but cant think up a solution, WOW thats hard! I can get my 3 year old girl to do that.


yes I do agree. It's easy to ***** but hard to find a solution. Our front office has not found a solution to some of these problems because they were not there to be found...but a lot of people seem to think they can just **** them out and solve the problems.

[OpIv37]

yes I do agree. It's easy to ***** but hard to find a solution. Our front office has not found a solution to some of these problems because they were not there to be found...but a lot of people seem to think they can just **** them out and solve the problems.

but this begs the question: why is it that other NFL teams have been able to build better lines and we haven't? We're fans- following football is basically a hobby for us. The FO and coaches get paid big money to figure this stuff out. Other teams seem to be able to do it- why can't we?

[Mudflap1]

Here's your answer:

Cut Villarial and Gandy. They are the weak links on the offensive line. Fowler, Peters, and Reyes are okay. Not great, but okay. If there is a big time LT available in free agency, sign him. Sign a guard, won't be as expensive.

On the defensive side of the ball, sign a big, nasty, run-stuffing DT to complement Tripplett.

It also wouldn't be bad if we had some TE's that could block too.

In the draft, get the best guards, left tackles, and pass rushing defensive ends that we can get.

That's how they will get fixed. We have enough wide receivers. We have running backs. We have linebackers and defensive backs. They may not look good right now, but if we bulk up the O and D lines, they will start to look a lot better. It all starts up front.

Jon

[patmoran2006]

but this begs the question: why is it that other NFL teams have been able to build better lines and we haven't? We're fans- following football is basically a hobby for us. The FO and coaches get paid big money to figure this stuff out. Other teams seem to be able to do it- why can't we?
Because other teams have GM's who have a far greater detail for attention when it comes to the OL via FA and the draft...

I wont knock Marv too much yet for Reyes and Fowler after six games, but I've TIVO'd every game and went back and watched each game with NOTHING but my eyes on the OL every play. And Reyes has been "ok" so far, and Fowler is really starting to get his ass knocked back off the ball the past three weeks.

I'm also not a huge fan of drafting an OL so early in the draft. Mike Williams, Robert Gallery (who will be out of the league soon the way he's looking) those guys can KILL a salary cap and they're often not franchise players.

When it comes to the OL, Im a big believer in going the FA route with guys who have PROVEN they can play in this league, its too important of a position to take a chance on the draft... Most good lines in this league anyway arent filled with guys taken high in the draft.

Its about good drafting and acquiring quality free agent linemen, not retreads

[patmoran2006]

I look at this team and I see two OL who are good enough to be part of a OL for the long haul who could be productive.. Peters and Reyes.

Fowler isnt strong enough.. Villiarial is old, and Gandy is just flat-out not good enough to be a regular starter, ESPECIALLY at LT.

[Buckets]

I live here in SW Florida and I obviously get a lot of news on the Buc's and Dolphins and in both cases fans are upset about the lack of attention that the lines are getting. Especially the Dolphin fans. I would venture to guess that most of the cellar dwellers or near cellar dwellers are in the same situation. There are only so many top notch O linemen to go around and money is not always the determining factor.

[Kerr]

One example: Bryant McKinney was picked LATER in the same draft where we got Mike Williams. And we all know how that worked out.


An obvious mistake for TD to pass on Mount Mckinney.

[justasportsfan]

it's the same old arguement....Levy has done nothing to fix the lines...TD did nothing to fix the lines. I'd like a list of what big moves in the last offseason were actually AVAILABLE to fix the lines myself instead of a bunch of whining about how bad they are.
Although i agree that our OL needs to be fixed , you can't fix an OL in your first year of rebuild. If it weren't for the CBA we would've had the cap to outbid teams for players. The CBA killed all that.

[eyedog]

The only way you get a top notch left tackle is to draft one, and early.
The good ones never hit the fa market. They get franchised and paid. So you have to draft one early and develop him and hope he pans out. Very rarely to you find one of these players with a second day draft pick, and yes sometimes you will bust out with a Mike Williams. So does that mean we never use a early pick on a offensive tackle. And for cripe sakes take a ****** left tackle next time.

[X-Era]

I don't follow other teams and FA enough to really answer the question. But think about it this way: Does every OL and DL in the NFL blow as bad as ours? Obvious answer: No. That means there's guys out there who don't suck, and they're on teams that are NOT the Buffalo Bills. Did the Bills ever have the opportunity to build an OL that's as good as, say, NE's OL? Probably not, but to think that the Bills had no shot at any of the offensive or defensive linemen that are excelling for other teams is just plain ridiculous.

One example: Bryant McKinney was picked LATER in the same draft where we got Mike Williams. And we all know how that worked out.

Thanks for the example. Dont you remember McKinnie got on Best Damn Sports Show Period and proclaimed to everyone he would go anywhere EXCEPT Buffalo. That sealed his fate, do we EVER want to draft a player who doesnt want to be in Buff?

[OpIv37]

Thanks for the example. Dont you remember McKinnie got on Best Damn Sports Show Period and proclaimed to everyone he would go anywhere EXCEPT Buffalo. That sealed his fate, do we EVER want to draft a player who doesnt want to be in Buff?

well this begs another question- WHY don't they want to be in Buffalo? This is an FO failure on it's own. Plenty of other cities have outdoor stadiums and comparable weather- NE, Cleveland, Cincy, Pittsburgh, Denver to name a few. What has the FO done wrong to make players say things like that?

[X-Era]

The only way you get a top notch left tackle is to draft one, and early.
The good ones never hit the fa market. They get franchised and paid. So you have to draft one early and develop him and hope he pans out. Very rarely to you find one of these players with a second day draft pick, and yes sometimes you will bust out with a Mike Williams. So does that mean we never use a early pick on a offensive tackle. And for cripe sakes take a ****** left tackle next time.

Thanks, wheres the details????

Who exactly can we draft with our #8-#15 pick we are likely to have that can start day one and play better than Gandy?

If your talking a big trade up for the top LT, OK fine. I bet your not, and I bet you dont know who the player we should get is.

Its one thing to be ticked at our line, its another thing to have any idea of what would fix it.

[eyedog]

Well since they already past on the Ngata @ Justice draft they could of had, we will look to next year with their 1st pick, and most likely a high one at that.

Long-Mich., Thomas-Wisc., Baker-S.Calif.

A couple of jr.'s there but will probably come out. Throw in Brown from Penn St.

There is your first pick. Unless of course there is some d-back or wide receiver we can't live without.


Take your pick out of those four. At least two of them should be available when the Bills pick. you can even move Peters to the left and develop the rookie on the right side if you want. Either way any of those guys will be an upgrade over gandy.

[X-Era]

Take your pick out of those four. At least two of them should be available when the Bills pick. you can even move Peters to the left and develop the rookie on the right side if you want. Either way any of those guys will be an upgrade over gandy.

So with one 1st round pick, we get one OL player and that solves our problem? And that assumes that that player can start day one and wont "learn" meaning he makes mistakes.

By the way, by drafting that one player we DONT draft any other DT, DE, or any other OL in round one.

[X-Era]

well this begs another question- WHY don't they want to be in Buffalo? This is an FO failure on it's own. Plenty of other cities have outdoor stadiums and comparable weather- NE, Cleveland, Cincy, Pittsburgh, Denver to name a few. What has the FO done wrong to make players say things like that?

Well, they manage to do very little to change the team at all from year to year. What player begs to go to permanent mediocrity?

Those were HIS words. I dont care how good he is, I dont want someone who doesnt want to be here.

[eyedog]

So with one 1st round pick, we get one OL player and that solves our problem? And that assumes that that player can start day one and wont "learn" meaning he makes mistakes.

By the way, by drafting that one player we DONT draft any other DT, DE, or any other OL in round one.

Well what the F do you want ? It's a start. You can't get five first rd picks to cover all the holes on the lines. Yes that player would be expected to start. Could he be any worse than the crap currently playing on this o-line.
Again, if they were not drafting skill positions every year with their first pick they probably wouldn't be in this mess. You have to start somewhere and I believe left offensive tackle is a good start. Cripe we've been saying the same damn thing for the last ten years now. Maybe this new regime can fiqure it out.