Leinart vs. Losman

[HHURRICANE]

I have to admit that my emotions got the best of me last night. Watching Leinart play like a vet against the same team that dismantled Losman and the Bills was disturbing, especially after the beating we took from the Lions.

Now that I have my head back let me make some evaluations:

1) Leinart has looked very good in his first two starts. PERIOD. Coming from USC is probably better preparation than coming from Tulane. Leinart's pocket presence is much better than Losman's already!!

2) The Cardinals OL is much better than the Bills.

3) The receiving corp. for Leinart is much better than the Bills. I really didn't realize that until I watched the Cards last night. I apologize to everyone, including ICE, who suggested a trade for another receiver. Anquan Bolden on the Bills would definately help Losman. The Cards have like 4 solid starting WR's. We have Evans and Josh Reed. Reed on the Cards would be #5.

4) The idea that we could have drafted Leinart is somewhat ridiculous. If I had a dollar for every Heisman QB that was a bust in the NFL, well you get the picture. Hindsight is 20/20.

I don't think Losman is a bust!!!!! However, no more free passes either!!!

I'll give the fact that he needs a better OL, better receivers, and a coaching staff that is going to maximize his strengths. But, he needs to start improving on his short passing game, his reads, and his awareness of the field around him.


I'm allowing JP to get his **** together during the bye. Come the Green Bay game I am going to start being his biggest critic. He doesn't have to be great just good. I'm over improving and mediocre.

[TacklingDummy]

Come to the dark side. lol

You'll have both feet back on the JP Bandwagon in 3 weeks when the Bills play the Packers.

[ICE74129]

Come to the dark side. lol

You'll have both feet back on the JP Bandwagon in 3 weeks when the Bills play the Packers.your mom is calling, its time to log off talking with the adults and head off to school now son.

[HHURRICANE]

your mom is calling, its time to log off talking with the adults and head off to school now son.

:darth: What are we talking about here?!

[kernowboy]

Leinart lacks the arm strength for the Ralph Wilson stadium. End of story.

[TacklingDummy]

:darth: What are we talking about here?!

jilted hate, it's ok, ignore it.

JP should be able to bounce back against the Packers at home.

Some posters probably will be giving JP a pass next week because the Bills play Bill Belichicks defense. And he can make any QB look bad.

[jmb1099]

jilted hate, it's ok, ignore it.

JP should be able to bounce back against the Packers at home.

Some posters probably will be giving JP a pass next week because the Bills play Bill Belichicks defense. And he can make any QB look bad.
Nope. No pass he either plays well or he doesn't. Lets see if the haters can use the same logic and balanced evaulation system.

[HHURRICANE]

In my book he get's his pass until the bye. Than he should get beaten like a mangy dog if he keeps making the same crappy dump passes and invisble reciever throws. His learning curve officially ends at the bye.

[EDS]

I am not so sure that Arizona's offensive line is much better then the Bills o-line. They can't run the ball at all despite having Edgerin James. Leinart has a lot more pocket presence then Losman, Losman has the better physical tools. Obviously it is hard to say definitively, but I get the sense that Leinart has star potential whereas Losman's ceiling may be average NFL QB. Hopefully Losman proves me wrong.

Arizona definitely has the better receivers. The Bills need a legit number 2 receiver - I like Roscoe as the number 3 because of his big play ability. Reed and Price are very mediocre and do not get consistent separation.

[RedEyE]

You guys are going to drive yourself crazy going over these type of comparisons.


Fact is Losman is here and Leinart isn't. The "what ifs" and the "if we hads" are just going to get annoying and in the grand scheme of things help very little.

Let's concentrate a little more on the "What we need to dos" and the "Next games".


I like the WR trade up scenerio. But the Leinart vs Losman crap just frustrates me.

[Philagape]

The thing is, it's not Leinart vs. Losman. It's Leinart vs. Losman and Whitner. And it will take years to determine the winner.

[patmoran2006]

I am not so sure that Arizona's offensive line is much better then the Bills o-line. They can't run the ball at all despite having Edgerin James. Leinart has a lot more pocket presence then Losman, Losman has the better physical tools. Obviously it is hard to say definitively, but I get the sense that Leinart has star potential whereas Losman's ceiling may be average NFL QB. Hopefully Losman proves me wrong.

Arizona definitely has the better receivers. The Bills need a legit number 2 receiver - I like Roscoe as the number 3 because of his big play ability. Reed and Price are very mediocre and do not get consistent separation.
you are 100% on the money.. Arizona's Offensive Line sucks and is far and away the achilles heel of that team.

leinart makes things work because he's unflappable back there.. He knows how to get through his reads quick, check down and despite not being athletic he's mobile enough to make plays on the move.

Anybody who thought Leinart can't make it in this league because of his lack of "arm strength" is a complete dolt.. He has a quarterback MIND and a quarterback MENTALITY.

Forget the stats.. Did you see how he LED that team? Did you see him in linemen's faces on the bench.. I seen more from Leinart in 30 minutes last night than I've seen from JP in 14 starts.

[HHURRICANE]

you are 100% on the money.. Arizona's Offensive Line sucks and is far and away the achilles heel of that team.

Forget the stats.. Did you see how he LED that team? Did you see him in linemen's faces on the bench.. I seen more from Leinart in 30 minutes last night than I've seen from JP in 14 starts.

Leinart was very impressive. I agree. The Cardinals OL has underperfromed but they far and away are superior to what we have in Buffalo. i have to call BS on that one.

[kernowboy]

But Pat, would he have been able to play in Buffalo? Are the citizens going to stump up for a nice $355m stadium to play in? As we don't have Leinart, how do we make JP better? Do we replace him in 2007? or sort out the team and think of replacing him in 2008 - wouldn't this allow us to let him go with no cap hit?
and forgetting Rob Johnson, didn't everyone think he was fab ... after one game?

[alohabillsfan]

Leinart lacks the arm strength for the Ralph Wilson stadium. End of story.


Tell that to Chad Pennington

[Dozerdog]

your mom is calling, its time to log off talking with the adults and head off to school now son.
We should have drafted Leinart when we had the chance- then maybe try and deal up for Whitner.


Hindsight is 20/20

But my current sight is just fine. Losman has yet to come out and win a game with a great performance.

He's a 3rd year player and has Joey Harrington written all over him.


Don't forget your spongebob lunch box Ice.

[Dozerdog]

Tell that to Chad Pennington
Tell that to Tom Brady

[ICE74129]

We should have drafted Leinart when we had the chance- then maybe try and deal up for Whitner.


Hindsight is 20/20

But my current sight is just fine. Losman has yet to come out and win a game with a great performance.

He's a 3rd year player and has Joey Harrington written all over him.


Don't forget your spongebob lunch box Ice.

Cards D forced 6 turnovers and allowed only 3 points to Chicagos offense. How did our D do against them again?

Team effort, it isn't just on losman.

[Tinboy]

I
1) Leinart has looked very good in his first two starts. PERIOD. Coming from USC is probably better preparation than coming from Tulane. Leinart's pocket presence is much better than Losman's already!!



Leinart is a pocket player and not as agile as Losman so of course he's going to have better pocket presence.

I think the offense doesn't utilize Losmans arm and speed well enough. Not that he's Vick but look at him againts the Giants last week, when he can't find a reciever he makes a run for it and it end in a TD. I would like to see much more of that with Losman and the Bills.

[Dozerdog]

Cards D forced 6 turnovers and allowed only 3 points to Chicagos offense. How did our D do against them again?

Team effort, it isn't just on losman.
3 years, and not much to show for it. Who gives a **** what the Bears did last night.


Our QB situation is bleak. No improvement.


Back to the drawing board.

[patmoran2006]

Leinart is a pocket player and not as agile as Losman so of course he's going to have better pocket presence.

I think the offense doesn't utilize Losmans arm and speed well enough. Not that he's Vick but look at him againts the Giants last week, when he can't find a reciever he makes a run for it and it end in a TD. I would like to see much more of that with Losman and the Bills.

VERY GOOD POINT, and your right about our offense.. The problem is our head coach.. Jauron will not have that kind of offense run, when he's a play defense first kind of guy..

For Losman, we have the wrong head coach in place.. IF Losman is the future, we need a more innnovative head coach, and Im not talking about a goof like Mularkey either.

[Bill Cody]

AZ has an OL that would charitably be put in the bottom fourth of the league. I'd give them an edge over the Bills pass blocking, not a huge one, and they are much worse run blocking. Look at the guys on their line- other than Leonard Davis, who is one level up from Mike Williams and was reportedly on the trading block, none of their starters are more than 4th round draft picks and they've been shuttling guys in from the bench.

No, only the most devoted Losmaniac will refuse to see what's obvious to the rest of the planet: Matt Leinart has shown more in two starts than Lossman has in 3 years. Last night Leinart had a running game averaging under 2 YPC and he was missing his top receiver but he still looked light years better than Lossman did against the Bears. The idea that a safety would have more impact on this franchise than Leinart would is laughable. And this arm strength thing is junk- neither Steve Young nor Joe Montana had strong arms, they did ok.

[justasportsfan]

Leinert looks so much better than all the qb drafted in JP's class including the class of Alex Smith and Aaron Rogers. Hindsight is 20/20. If we didn't have an unkown QB that was mishandled by Moolarkey than by all means we should've drafted either Cutler or Leinert.

Marv was handed a team that had holes in almost every position of the team including the qb position. However, we had a very talented qb that no one knew about. So instead of using a 1st rd. pick on the qb position, it was used to fill other important holes on this team while the coaches are trying to find out what we have in JP.

All this Leinert vs. JP comparison is just stupid. If we drafted Leinert we'd have problems in the locker room plus a few more years of trying to draft D because we used it on a QB.

If JP does not pan out, at least we're ahead in the defensive side of the ball. If JP does pan out, we're ahead on both sides of the ball.

If you want to compare qb's compare them with all the others drafted since JP's class. You will see that almost every team missed out on Leinert including the Giants, Chargers, Titans, 9'ers , greenbay etc. because as far as the amount of experience Leinert has , he look so much better than all of them. You can even argue that he's better than Ben. Ben only has a sb ring because of the teamhe landed.

[Iehoshua]

:darth: What are we talking about here?!
Leave me out of this!

[PECKERWOOD]

In my book he get's his pass until the bye. Than he should get beaten like a mangy dog if he keeps making the same crappy dump passes and invisble reciever throws. His learning curve officially ends at the bye.
You might as well just stay a hater then. This is gonna be a rough season for the Bills and Jp alike. Under the circumstances I think JP is fairing better than most of us expected.. But honestly huricane, what is gonna be such a monumental turn around after the bye week? Were going to have the same players and personnel. Im not saying we should blindly defend JP if he starts doing god awful idiotic things, but Im saying that I still see some hope and improvement. We're so much better off this year versus last year, thats enough right there to convince me of improvement.

[TacklingDummy]

Woody Page on 1st and 10 just said the Bills made a mistake not drafting Leinart.

[justasportsfan]

Woody Page on 1st and 10 just said the Bills made a mistake not drafting Leinart.
Is he one of those guys who laughed at thw Whitner pick? Everyones all of a sudden has an opinion after the fact. Another one of the so called experts. HAHA!

[PECKERWOOD]

Is he one of those guys who laughed at thw Whitner pick? Everyones all of a sudden has an opinion after the fact. Another one of the so called experts. HAHA!
Exactly. Lets watch Leinart have a bad game next week, and the so called experts will start having doubts about him again.

[Goobylal]

Leinart had time in the pocket yesterday and, get this, receivers who were open. Also his defense forced SIX turnovers and put the Cards' offense within scoring range 4 of those times. Grossman OTOH was HORRIBLE, worse than JP, but he gets the win because his defense, which was getting shredded by Boldin, comes up with some lucky plays, as does the ST's. Go figure.

[TacklingDummy]

Is he one of those guys who laughed at thw Whitner pick? Everyones all of a sudden has an opinion after the fact. Another one of the so called experts. HAHA!

Most Bills fans also laughed at the Whitner pick.

[EDS]

You might as well just stay a hater then. This is gonna be a rough season for the Bills and Jp alike. Under the circumstances I think JP is fairing better than most of us expected.. But honestly huricane, what is gonna be such a monumental turn around after the bye week? Were going to have the same players and personnel. Im not saying we should blindly defend JP if he starts doing god awful idiotic things, but Im saying that I still see some hope and improvement. We're so much better off this year versus last year, thats enough right there to convince me of improvement.

I think the rationale for "taking off the gloves" with respect to Losman is that after the bye week he will have about 16 starts under his belt and two weeks to reflect and get ready to start his "second season as started."

I am not sure we will see a discernable difference in JP after the bye week, but I do expect him to perform well the last 4-5 games of the season since he will then have about 20 starts under his belt and the young players will have been seasoned to some extent.

[PECKERWOOD]

I think the rationale for "taking off the gloves" with respect to Losman is that after the bye week he will have about 16 starts under his belt and two weeks to reflect and get ready to start his "second season as started."

I am not sure we will see a discernable difference in JP after the bye week, but I do expect him to perform well the last 4-5 games of the season since he will then have about 20 starts under his belt and the young players will have been seasoned to some extent.

We have very similar expectations.

[justasportsfan]

Most Bills fans also laughed at the Whitner pick.

So he's just another mb poster. What was your point by bringing up his comment?

[TacklingDummy]

. What was your point by bringing up his comment?

What was your point bringing up Whitner in a thread about Losman vs Leinart?

[justasportsfan]

What was your point bringing up Whitner in a thread about Losman vs Leinart?

I'd explain but because of your obvious hate for JP, you wouldn't undestand.

[EDS]

We have very similar expectations.

I just want to know at the end of the season whether JP is the guy and I can get excited about the following season or whether the team needs to go in another direction. If he can't get the job done those last couple games of the season then it may be time to look elsewhere.

[PECKERWOOD]

I just want to know at the end of the season whether JP is the guy and I can get excited about the following season or whether the team needs to go in another direction. If he can't get the job done those last couple games of the season then it may be time to look elsewhere.
Im pretty excited about JP as is. I cant wait untill we pick up some more people next year. We got to remember that the coaches have had one year to pick players for their system, next year they will be able to find more people that can execute their style of play. On the offensive side of the ball, Im hoping for an upgraded OL and a solid #2 for JP.

[MarvLevy]

We should have drafted Leinart when we had the chance- then maybe try and deal up for Whitner.


Hindsight is 20/20

But my current sight is just fine. Losman has yet to come out and win a game with a great performance.

He's a 3rd year player and has Joey Harrington written all over him.


Don't forget your spongebob lunch box Ice.

DRAFT LEINART...THEN MOVE UP FOR WHITNER LIKE WE DID FOR MCCARGO. WE ACTUALLY STILL COULD HAVE HAD ALL 3 IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT.

[HHURRICANE]

You might as well just stay a hater then. This is gonna be a rough season for the Bills and Jp alike. Under the circumstances I think JP is fairing better than most of us expected.. But honestly huricane, what is gonna be such a monumental turn around after the bye week? Were going to have the same players and personnel. Im not saying we should blindly defend JP if he starts doing god awful idiotic things, but Im saying that I still see some hope and improvement. We're so much better off this year versus last year, thats enough right there to convince me of improvement.

Dude EDS summed it up nicely. Anybody who has seen my post knows which side of the fence I've been on regards to JP. Matter-of-fact it's a compliment when I'm being called a JP-Homer and Hater in different threads!!

I like JP and think he has the tools. I don't want yet another QB in Buffalo either. But I do want some stability. That means building the team around players that are going to be here. Having to worry about JP being pulled, etc., does nothing for this team. I just want him to cement his position. As EDS said I think after the bye it will be similar to starting his second season. I want to see him finish strong!!!!

[HHURRICANE]

I think the rationale for "taking off the gloves" with respect to Losman is that after the bye week he will have about 16 starts under his belt and two weeks to reflect and get ready to start his "second season as started."

I am not sure we will see a discernable difference in JP after the bye week, but I do expect him to perform well the last 4-5 games of the season since he will then have about 20 starts under his belt and the young players will have been seasoned to some extent.

Dude, thanks. I tried to pos rep you but I must have given you some on another post!! You read it perfectly!!

[PECKERWOOD]

Dude EDS summed it up nicely. Anybody who has seen my post knows which side of the fence I've been on regards to JP. Matter-of-fact it's a compliment when I'm being called a JP-Homer and Hater in different threads!!

I like JP and think he has the tools. I don't want yet another QB in Buffalo either. But I do want some stability. That means building the team around players that are going to be here. Having to worry about JP being pulled, etc., does nothing for this team. I just want him to cement his position. As EDS said I think after the bye it will be similar to starting his second season. I want to see him finish strong!!!!

We all want stability. (other than Lawrence, TD and Rudeman ofcourse) Many people dont understand what side of the fence your on, because you were simply bashing JP every chance you could get yesterday and today he has all the tools again. I dont mean that as a personal attack, but you sure hounded me alot about JP yesterday.

Ed had some good points but that isnt one of them. Although I feel JP will finish strong, next season will be like JP's 2nd season if you will. I understand after the bye week that means he has started '16 games', but nothing miraculous happens after you hit the 16 game mark. He is going to have the same OL and players around him, so although he may do a little better once the team matures, the improvement isnt going to be as drastic as many think.

[ICE74129]

3 years, and not much to show for it. Who gives a **** what the Bears did last night.


Our QB situation is bleak. No improvement.


Back to the drawing board.

No improvement? What games are you watching?

[HHURRICANE]

We all want stability. Many people dont understand what side of the fence your on, because you were simply bashing JP every chance you could get yesterday and today he has all the tools again. I dont mean that as a personal attack, but you sure hounded me alot about JP yesterday.

TIME OUT!! Where did I bash JP? Did I say that we should cut him? That he doesn't belong here? NO! I said it's time to start being objective about his performance and I also posted before the Lions game that this was a pivotal game for him and his future here as a franchise player. If you can honestly say that he played a good game on Sunday than we aren't watching the same team.

He is still going to struggle because of our OL. Period. But there are no more excuses for the 2 passes that almost got Willis and Shelton killed. None. JP your not a rookie anymore so fix it. He has been getting my support all along, time for him to show he deserves it.

[justasportsfan]

No improvement? What games are you watching?I was wondering that too.

[PECKERWOOD]

TIME OUT!! Where did I bash JP? Did I say that we should cut him? That he doesn't belong here? NO! I said it's time to start being objective about his performance and I also posted before the Lions game that this was a pivotal game for him and his future here as a franchise player. If you can honestly say that he played a good game on Sunday than we aren't watching the same team.

He is still going to struggle because of our OL. Period. But there are no more excuses for the 2 passes that almost got Willis and Shelton killed. None. JP your not a rookie anymore so fix it. He has been getting my support all along, time for him to show he deserves it.

Ok, I'l answer that first statement with this. http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=111158
What were the implications in that thread then? I dont consider that supporting JP.

I could really go on and on about how JP isnt the problem, but Ive really done that enough over the past 2 days. The point is, this team has more holes in it than Tupac.