Last Night Made Me Sick

[patmoran2006]

First of all, I'm not going to be two faced and say the Bills should've drafted Matt Leinart. I didnt think he was a good fit before the draft, so I'm not going to lie and say I had him pegged all along. IN fact, I remember writing a piece before the draft (and arguing with many others) that Cutler or Young was the guy the Bills should take should one of them be available.

But.. Watching Leinart play last night was the perfect example and re-affirmed to me absolutely EVERYTHING that I despise about JP Losman..

All "some" of you people talk about is arm strength and the ability to make ESPN plays. There are few people in the NFL who have a stronger arm that Losman. There are few people in the league capable of making the kind of TD throw Losman did Sunday to Parrish (though if the DB turned around earlier it was picked)..

But man, can't you guys see the DIFFERENCE between leinart and losman, and leinart has made all of TWO starts..

Leadership.. Confidence.. POISE (and I mean a lot of it)... Patience... Intelligence..... Trust and belief from your entire organization...... Leinart ALREADY has it.. Losman BARELY has any of it.

Forget the numbers.. We all know Leinart had a good game against a great defense.. But did you see his PRESENCE out there? Did you see him on the sidelines? He is an absolute, UNDISPUTED LEADER on that team at the most important position. You can just smell WINNER on him.

Meanwhile, losman makes a mistake and sulks on the bench.. How often do you see him on the sidelines in his linemen's face? How often do you see him communicating with his WR's on the sidelines..

And dont give me any crap about an offensive line, anybody who knows anything about Football knows how horrible the Cardinals offensive line is.. last night was the FOURTH starting combo they've used in six games. Its the team's major weakness. And whether they play in CHicago, Arizona, Hawaii or Alaska, that was STILL the Bears defense where Leinart looked like a 10-year pro out there against..

Did I mention Larry Fitzgerald didn't play?

Losman physically is gifted, but watching Leinart last night is just further evidence that Losman doesnt have the MENTAL tools to be a good quarterback, and for that reason I really hope we go after a different quarterback through FA or the draft at season's end.

Watching Leinart LEAD that team last night reminded me of the days when we had the same kind of leader in Jim Kelly. I'm not talking about arm-strength (though you people who say Leinart didnt have the arm for Buffalo makes me laugh)-- I'm talking about leadership and a winner's presence.

The hand-holding all you do for Losman is OVER... If you blow last night off as nothing, then it just proves how biased and homerrific some of you are.. Losman has started SEVEN TIMES more games on a team that is overall better than Arizona, and Losman at least 50% of the time still looks like he's playing for Tulane.

Again, I cant say that at the time I wanted Leinart to be a Bill. But I'm also not the GM. SPin it anyway you want boys and girls, taking a safety over Leinart (or maybe Cutler too) is going to go down as one of the single biggest mistakes in Bills history.

[carybillsfan]

Record as a starter 0-2. Losses don't get you into the playoffs.

[OpIv37]

I'm starting to think you may be right about JP.

That being said, I still don't think we should have taken Cutler or Leinart at the time because we didn't know what we had in JP and this team had so many other needs.

And before you completely rip the Bills, there were several teams that picked ahead of us in need of QB's that passed on Leinart as well (Raiders and Jets come immediately to mind*). So clearly there was something about him that created doubt going into the draft.

*= I know Pennington looks good now, but remember he was coming off shoulder surgery around draft time and there was a lot of doubt about his future.

[Dozerdog]

I would have loved to draft Leinart and said so back then.


To add insul to injury last night- I went into my fantasy football game with a 35 point lead, Rex Grossman at QB yet to play, and my opponent had the Chicago special teams

Chicago defense= 35 points
Rex Grossman-- Minus 7 :mad:


JP stinks

[Mr. Miyagi]

Sure in hindsight Leinhart looks good. But a lot of that is attributed to the O-line giving him protection. Also if anyone is having regrets that we drafted Whitner, you're crazy.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Chicago defense= 35 points
Rex Grossman-- Minus 7 :mad:

JP stinks
:rofl: That's JP's fault?

[Dozerdog]

No- it was the insult to injury for me.

[patmoran2006]

I'm starting to think you may be right about JP.

That being said, I still don't think we should have taken Cutler or Leinart at the time because we didn't know what we had in JP and this team had so many other needs.

And before you completely rip the Bills, there were several teams that picked ahead of us in need of QB's that passed on Leinart as well (Raiders and Jets come immediately to mind*). So clearly there was something about him that created doubt going into the draft.

*= I know Pennington looks good now, but remember he was coming off shoulder surgery around draft time and there was a lot of doubt about his future.
I'll say this..
At least the Bills had a young QB who had some "potential" and needed to see if he can fill it..

The Raiders and Lions are straight up ******ed for passing on him when they both have veteran bums as QBs.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I got killed in fantasy football too. Had Berrian and Desmond Clark going into last night down by 10 points. It was a sure thing right? Not.

Fat Wade Phillips suck. :mad:

[patmoran2006]

Sure in hindsight Leinhart looks good. But a lot of that is attributed to the O-line giving him protection. Also if anyone is having regrets that we drafted Whitner, you're crazy.
I got nothing against Whitner personally.. I think he's going to be a real solid safety.. But safeties are a lot easier to find than franchise quarterbacks who will put your team on the map.

Whitner will be good.. but there is also at least 5-6 other safeties from this draft with good futures, including another safety we drafted ourselves.

I think we're all (including me) getting too used to mediocrity and inconsitency at QB since the days of Jim Kelly ended.. all I'm saying is last night was a reminder of the intangibles in a QB i havent seen in over 10 years, and the guys has made only two freekin starts.

[carybillsfan]

I got nothing against Whitner personally.. I think he's going to be a real solid safety.. But safeties are a lot easier to find than franchise quarterbacks who will put your team on the map.

Whitner will be good.. but there is also at least 5-6 other safeties from this draft with good futures, including another safety we drafted ourselves.

I think we're all (including me) getting too used to mediocrity and inconsitency at QB since the days of Jim Kelly ended.. all I'm saying is last night was a reminder of the intangibles in a QB i havent seen in over 10 years, and the guys has made only two freekin starts.

And after 2 starts Leiinart is the next great franchise qb, give me a break.

[patmoran2006]

And after 2 starts Leiinart is the next great franchise qb, give me a break.
If you cant see that he is, even after only two starts, then you are absolutely blind..

[TacklingDummy]

WYS called, he wants his novel back. jk

Good Post, Pat.

[Mudflap1]

Pat, you are wasting your breath... it's like talking to a brick wall... in almost every way...

But I agree with you.

Jon

[carybillsfan]

If you cant see that he is, even after only two starts, then you are absolutely blind..

Ryaan Leaf was 2-0 to start his carer and every analyst in America was up Polian's ass for taking Manning. And we all know Leaf is a sure thing for the Hall of Fame, I think he might be elligible next year. I think its too early to say on Leinart so lets stop kissing his ass. Oh and by the way I wanted the Bills to draft Leinart, I was pissed when they didn't.

[justasportsfan]

I got nothing against Whitner personally.. I think he's going to be a real solid safety.. But safeties are a lot easier to find than franchise quarterbacks who will put your team on the map.

Whitner will be good.. but there is also at least 5-6 other safeties from this draft with good futures, including another safety we drafted ourselves.

I think we're all (including me) getting too used to mediocrity and inconsitency at QB since the days of Jim Kelly ended.. all I'm saying is last night was a reminder of the intangibles in a QB i havent seen in over 10 years, and the guys has made only two freekin starts.


We're already B1tching about our cbs. If we drafted a qb we'd be b!tching about our safeties too. Either ways we'd be *****es. Marv can't win .

[BillsFever21]

First of all, I'm not going to be two faced and say the Bills should've drafted Matt Leinart. I didnt think he was a good fit before the draft, so I'm not going to lie and say I had him pegged all along. IN fact, I remember writing a piece before the draft (and arguing with many others) that Cutler or Young was the guy the Bills should take should one of them be available.

But.. Watching Leinart play last night was the perfect example and re-affirmed to me absolutely EVERYTHING that I despise about JP Losman..

All "some" of you people talk about is arm strength and the ability to make ESPN plays. There are few people in the NFL who have a stronger arm that Losman. There are few people in the league capable of making the kind of TD throw Losman did Sunday to Parrish (though if the DB turned around earlier it was picked)..

But man, can't you guys see the DIFFERENCE between leinart and losman, and leinart has made all of TWO starts..

Leadership.. Confidence.. POISE (and I mean a lot of it)... Patience... Intelligence..... Trust and belief from your entire organization...... Leinart ALREADY has it.. Losman BARELY has any of it.

Forget the numbers.. We all know Leinart had a good game against a great defense.. But did you see his PRESENCE out there? Did you see him on the sidelines? He is an absolute, UNDISPUTED LEADER on that team at the most important position. You can just smell WINNER on him.

Meanwhile, losman makes a mistake and sulks on the bench.. How often do you see him on the sidelines in his linemen's face? How often do you see him communicating with his WR's on the sidelines..

And dont give me any crap about an offensive line, anybody who knows anything about Football knows how horrible the Cardinals offensive line is.. last night was the FOURTH starting combo they've used in six games. Its the team's major weakness. And whether they play in CHicago, Arizona, Hawaii or Alaska, that was STILL the Bears defense where Leinart looked like a 10-year pro out there against..

Did I mention Larry Fitzgerald didn't play?

Losman physically is gifted, but watching Leinart last night is just further evidence that Losman doesnt have the MENTAL tools to be a good quarterback, and for that reason I really hope we go after a different quarterback through FA or the draft at season's end.

Watching Leinart LEAD that team last night reminded me of the days when we had the same kind of leader in Jim Kelly. I'm not talking about arm-strength (though you people who say Leinart didnt have the arm for Buffalo makes me laugh)-- I'm talking about leadership and a winner's presence.

The hand-holding all you do for Losman is OVER... If you blow last night off as nothing, then it just proves how biased and homerrific some of you are.. Losman has started SEVEN TIMES more games on a team that is overall better than Arizona, and Losman at least 50% of the time still looks like he's playing for Tulane.

Again, I cant say that at the time I wanted Leinart to be a Bill. But I'm also not the GM. SPin it anyway you want boys and girls, taking a safety over Leinart (or maybe Cutler too) is going to go down as one of the single biggest mistakes in Bills history.

Try this website out. You can lick Leinart's shaft here. http://www.azcardinals.com/

Arizona has a better team then Buffalo. They have twice the talent at WR then Buffalo does. They also have a great offensive minded HC. They have a better RB then Buffalo does. And even though the running game might not be getting many yards Arizona still sticks with the run to keep the defense honest.

[Ron Burgundy]

Arizona's offensive line sucks, too.

I wanted Leinart in the draft and said so, but it doesn't matter...now we get to try again next year. I'd rather have Troy Smith than Brady Quinn, though.`


Good posting Pat, you're on point almost every time. :up:

[kernowboy]

Firstly, whilst Leinart had a great college career its a little early to suggest he is the next Tom Brady.
Secondly he's only started two games and both were at home in the nice shiny environmentally controlled Arizona Stadium
The only other game time he played in was in the enviromentally controlled Georgia Dome where he had problems holding on to the ball in the face of pressure and was 5/8 for 49 yds and a INT.
Correct me if I am wrong but do the Bills play in a nice environmentally controlled stadium?
Not to the best of my knowledge ... and because of a percieved difficulty he might have here he was not taken.
I'm sure leadership and a winner's presence are mighty affective against Buffalo conditions in November. However if arm strength counts for nothing, why do ALL coaches regard it as a desirable quality!!!!!??????

[PECKERWOOD]

First of all, I'm not going to be two faced and say the Bills should've drafted Matt Leinart. I didnt think he was a good fit before the draft, so I'm not going to lie and say I had him pegged all along. IN fact, I remember writing a piece before the draft (and arguing with many others) that Cutler or Young was the guy the Bills should take should one of them be available.

But.. Watching Leinart play last night was the perfect example and re-affirmed to me absolutely EVERYTHING that I despise about JP Losman..

All "some" of you people talk about is arm strength and the ability to make ESPN plays. There are few people in the NFL who have a stronger arm that Losman. There are few people in the league capable of making the kind of TD throw Losman did Sunday to Parrish (though if the DB turned around earlier it was picked)..

But man, can't you guys see the DIFFERENCE between leinart and losman, and leinart has made all of TWO starts..

Leadership.. Confidence.. POISE (and I mean a lot of it)... Patience... Intelligence..... Trust and belief from your entire organization...... Leinart ALREADY has it.. Losman BARELY has any of it.

Forget the numbers.. We all know Leinart had a good game against a great defense.. But did you see his PRESENCE out there? Did you see him on the sidelines? He is an absolute, UNDISPUTED LEADER on that team at the most important position. You can just smell WINNER on him.

Meanwhile, losman makes a mistake and sulks on the bench.. How often do you see him on the sidelines in his linemen's face? How often do you see him communicating with his WR's on the sidelines..

And dont give me any crap about an offensive line, anybody who knows anything about Football knows how horrible the Cardinals offensive line is.. last night was the FOURTH starting combo they've used in six games. Its the team's major weakness. And whether they play in CHicago, Arizona, Hawaii or Alaska, that was STILL the Bears defense where Leinart looked like a 10-year pro out there against..

Did I mention Larry Fitzgerald didn't play?

Losman physically is gifted, but watching Leinart last night is just further evidence that Losman doesnt have the MENTAL tools to be a good quarterback, and for that reason I really hope we go after a different quarterback through FA or the draft at season's end.

Watching Leinart LEAD that team last night reminded me of the days when we had the same kind of leader in Jim Kelly. I'm not talking about arm-strength (though you people who say Leinart didnt have the arm for Buffalo makes me laugh)-- I'm talking about leadership and a winner's presence.

The hand-holding all you do for Losman is OVER... If you blow last night off as nothing, then it just proves how biased and homerrific some of you are.. Losman has started SEVEN TIMES more games on a team that is overall better than Arizona, and Losman at least 50% of the time still looks like he's playing for Tulane.

Again, I cant say that at the time I wanted Leinart to be a Bill. But I'm also not the GM. SPin it anyway you want boys and girls, taking a safety over Leinart (or maybe Cutler too) is going to go down as one of the single biggest mistakes in Bills history.

It's easy to complain about the past once you have seen things nobody knew about before Leinart was drafted. Everybody thought Leinart was going to be the weakest QB in the draft. Not to mention, what Leinart is doing in Arizona is irrelevant to Buffalo Bills football and JP Losman. Before the draft, JP had 8 career starts, we didnt know what we had in him, we still dont know what we have in him. Levy and Modrak, dont have crystal balls. If we could travel to the future in time machines and see which player is going to make it, and which player isnt going to make it, we would be superbowl champions. Obviously that is not the case.

[The_Philster]

Meanwhile, losman makes a mistake and sulks on the bench.. How often do you see him on the sidelines in his linemen's face? How often do you see him communicating with his WR's on the sidelines..

That's something I noticed a few times on Sunday...not so much sulking...but sitting there instead of being up, talking to his offensive players, talking to his coaches...I did catch him talking to Holcomb a couple of times which is a positive, I think...though who knows what was said with Holcomb. Point is, he's the leader of the team...or at least just the offense for the time being (until he proves himself enough)...sitting on the bench as much as he was doing isn't a leadership action.

[patmoran2006]

Firstly, whilst Leinart had a great college career its a little early to suggest he is the next Tom Brady.
Secondly he's only started two games and both were at home in the nice shiny environmentally controlled Arizona Stadium
The only other game time he played in was in the enviromentally controlled Georgia Dome where he had problems holding on to the ball in the face of pressure and was 5/8 for 49 yds and a INT.
Correct me if I am wrong but do the Bills play in a nice environmentally controlled stadium?
Not to the best of my knowledge ... and because of a percieved difficulty he might have here he was not taken.
I'm sure leadership and a winner's presence are mighty affective against Buffalo conditions in November. However if arm strength counts for nothing, why do ALL coaches regard it as a desirable quality!!!!!??????
Firstly, I never suggested that Leinart is the next Tom Brady.. I suggested that Leinart is everything that Losman is NOT.. IN fact, I hardly used any STATS at all in any thing I said.

and perhaps the most overated assessment in the NFL by GM's and scouts is "arm strength".. I can name you a laundry list full of QB's who's draft stock plumeted because they were perceived as not having a strong enough arm.. Do names like Steve Young, Joe Montana, Jim McMahon and Phil Simms ring a bell?

I dont think that Losman will be out of the NFL in two years.. He may be a decent quarterback.. But NOT with this team, especially as long as we have the ******ed coaching staff we have now..

Leinart is all about being in the pocket, making smart decisions, getting threw his reads quickly, not forcing many throws, kind of killing you with his mind and his poise.

Losman is the polar opposite.. He'd rather draw a play in the mud and then run around make something happen. Dont get me wrong, it works for each of them.. But Losman can't be that kind of quarterback in this system in Buffalo with these needledick coaches.. They want him to be a Phil Simms kind of quarterback, or a Chris Chandler (minus the 10,000 concussions)

If thats the case, then you may as well get Nall or Holcomb in there soon, because even Jauron is smart enough to know Losman will never be this kind of quarterback successfuly.

[Philagape]

If Losman is being hindered by the coaches, then get rid of the coaches first. I'm sick of coaches who try to make players fit their scheme whether it works or not.

[The_Philster]

If Losman is being hindered by the coaches, then get rid of the coaches first. I'm sick of coaches who try to make players fit their scheme whether it works or not.
the good coaches fit their schemes around the players they have...not vice versa

[patmoran2006]

If Losman is being hindered by the coaches, then get rid of the coaches first. I'm sick of coaches who try to make players fit their scheme whether it works or not.
your absolutely right..
and it couldnt be ANYMORE obivious that JAURON is NOT the right person for this job if JP Losman is going to be our quarterback.

That's reason enough alone we should've hired Sherman, who is used to craziness at QB with Favre..

Terrible choice its looking like by Marv to hire Jauron, unless they get rid of Losman and bring in a more pocket-oriented quarterback.

[Philagape]

Unlike JP, I honestly cannot think of one good thing to say about Dick.

[patmoran2006]

I honestly can't think of ONE single gamble Jauron's called this year that's paid off. .Not ONE..

Not saying they are all his fault.. but at some point, wtf

[paladin warrior]

You were sick. Because Of JP mess up Vs Lion's. Yeah We should have Matt .Leinhart. Bill's was 1st around in the 8 place just before Oakland Radier's. Oakland should have him too. Raider's are Stink.. And very very QB

[X-Era]

Record as a starter 0-2. Losses don't get you into the playoffs.

Exactly.

And Im sure had we have drafted Leinhart, HIS haters would be bashing away right about now because hes 0 and 2.

Basically, this has NOTHING to do with JP and is all about impatience with a young QB.

I doesnt matter who we draft and when they play, some people either hate him because they had their favorite move and it didnt come true, or they want to win every game now and cant see that developing a young QB can sustain long term success.

This whole arguement is pointless, someone posted the other day that the JP roller coaster with us loving or hating him each and every week just needs to stop, that person is COMPLETELY correct.

[DraftBoy]

Losman physically is gifted, but watching Leinart last night is just further evidence that Losman doesnt have the MENTAL tools to be a good quarterback, and for that reason I really hope we go after a different quarterback through FA or the draft at season's end.




You just hit the nail on the head, and I fully agree

[GFLuNEEDit]

Wait till you see Jay Cutler play then you will futher see how the Bills have thier heads up thier a**es

[patmoran2006]

Exactly.

And Im sure had we have drafted Leinhart, HIS haters would be bashing away right about now because hes 0 and 2.

Basically, this has NOTHING to do with JP and is all about impatience with a young QB.

I doesnt matter who we draft and when they play, some people either hate him because they had their favorite move and it didnt come true, or they want to win every game now and cant see that developing a young QB can sustain long term success.

This whole arguement is pointless, someone posted the other day that the JP roller coaster with us loving or hating him each and every week just needs to stop, that person is COMPLETELY correct.
What is wrong with you? DO you only read what you WANT to read? Are you JP's brother? Im starting to think so.

Your OWN words do you in.. impatience with a young QB? Leinart is YOUNGER than LOSMAN and he's had TWO starts to JP's 14.. So why in the hell in a game against the BEARS does Leinart look like he's been playing in the NFL for 5 years, while Losman looks as dazed and confused as possible against Chicago. Im talking leadership and intangibles, NOT ****ing stats

And before you go on about talent; ARizona's line is WORSE than Buffalo, and Larry Fitzgerald didnt even play.

[patmoran2006]

And as for Leinart being "0-2" what a ******ed thing to say.
Both losses are because their kicking CHOKED.. They could easily be 2-0.. Last I checked Leinart wasnt kicking field goals..

What a stupid thing to say.

[kernowboy]

It was all a cunning plan by the Bills

We let the Bears think this NFL lark is ridiculously easy and they go to Arizona and only wake up at half time. The Bills want to make Leinart look like a god and JP like a donkey so Marv will find it easier to justify drafting his own QB in 2007.

:)

Actually I suspect that like all teams Leinart might have benefited from a Bears off day with the defence being on the field more than they liked because of the Grossman meltdown and maybe not being fully conditioned for it. Additionally playing against a leftie might have caused them one or two problems adjusting to.

oh and Pat, I am not a JP lover but feel there are far more fundamental problems in the entire roster that need to be addressed.

and I also wonder that if we had drafted Leinart, maybe he would have stank in WNY. We'll never know. I am more interested in who we sign next season and who we draft so that 2007 is better than 2006

[PECKERWOOD]

I hope JP destroys the Pat's this week. That way people can stop posting this stupid shiz.

[Drive 4 Five]

This from the same guy who predicted that Losman was going to be cut or traded before the season started AND that the Bill's would be drafting a QB with their 1st overall pick. Good call. And now this?

You can count me as one of the many who were impressed with Leinhart's performance on MNF, but I think we have a pretty darn QB too. At this point in Losman's development, I could not be more pleased. To me he has improved in leaps and bounds over what we saw last year, I couldn't ask for more from him at this point.

Sure he has made mistakes, some at very inopportune times, but who among us does not make mistakes everyday? That is how we grow. That is how we learn. Losman is no exception. What I like best about J.P. is his work ethic. That alone is going to carry him a long ways in this league. I'm sorry but I have a very very difficult time believing that Leinhart is a better QB than Losman after playing all of 2 games in this league.