Question for the JP Supporters

[patmoran2006]

I'm not being sarcastic, I'm asking a SERIOUS question ..


At what point will the JP lovers SERIOUSLY say this guy just doesnt have what it takes to be a consistent, winning NFL quarterback?

Honestly, at what point does that happen? A couple of more embarassing losses? A few more telegraphed picks? 8 sacks in a game? End of season? Next season?

[Thurmal]

If he continues to show, through about 5-7 more games, that he can't:

-- throw a four yard pass accurately

-- score 20 points in a ball game

-- get the offense into any kind of rhythm

-- limit unnecessary turnovers

These are all things that he definitely needs to work and improve on.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I'm not being sarcastic, I'm asking a SERIOUS question ..


At what point will the JP lovers SERIOUSLY say this guy just doesnt have what it takes to be a consistent, winning NFL quarterback?

Honestly, at what point does that happen? A couple of more embarassing losses? A few more telegraphed picks? 8 sacks in a game? End of season? Next season?
I will make my final judgement after the season comes to an end. If he continues as he has the past 2 games obviously it is time to move on. Why make a judgement now? It is obvious that Holcomb isn't the answer and I don't think much of Nall. Why make a change?

[TacklingDummy]

When he is no longer a Bill. I have to support him as long as he's in a Bills uniform.

Then when JP is cut I will say I agreed all along that JP sucked.

But we had to find out if he could reach his potential.

[alohabillsfan]

While I am not a JP homer, he is our starting QB and really if you take things in perspective can you really say he has not improved over last year, I mean really? Last year he ran around completed half his passes for 80 yards and seemed overwhelmed. Everyone wants to compare him to Leinart or Big Ben etc.. , he is improving can make all the throws, and scramble, he will win us 5 more games (7-9) We will draft in the 12-16 range. Lets hope we have another good draft and solidify the OL and DL

[OpIv37]

I want to see JP succeed but I'm really afraid of the Bills being the Lions with Harrington, the Ravens with Boller, the Skins with Ramsey etc- teams that wasted 3-4 seasons trying to develop a QB who will never be more than a journeyman back-up.

[patmoran2006]

I want to see JP succeed but I'm really afraid of the Bills being the Lions with Harrington, the Ravens with Boller, the Skins with Ramsey etc- teams that wasted 3-4 seasons trying to develop a QB who will never be more than a journeyman back-up.
Exactly..(add Heath Shuler in there as well) and unfortunately, I think that's exactly what will happen.. In my opinion, he possesses NONE of the intangibles that make a great QB

[Mahdi]

Ill consider him a bust after he has been given a decent O-Line which gives him more than 1.5 seconds to throw. Im not saying it has to be a Pro-Bowl line. Just decent. If after that he cant get it done, then I will consider him a bust.

[justasportsfan]

I want to see JP succeed but I'm really afraid of the Bills being the Lions with Harrington, the Ravens with Boller, the Skins with Ramsey etc- teams that wasted 3-4 seasons trying to develop a QB who will never be more than a journeyman back-up.then you'd be worried about draftin Quinn too or any other qb because that's what happens when you draft a QB. You don't know what you're geting til 2-3 years down the road.

[patmoran2006]

then you'd be worried about draftin Quinn too or any other qb because that's what happens when you draft a QB. You don't know what you're geting til 2-3 years down the road.
True but the great GMs who do their homework the best are right alot more often than they are wrong.

[OpIv37]

then you'd be worried about draftin Quinn too or any other qb because that's what happens when you draft a QB. You don't know what you're geting til 2-3 years down the road.

Exactly.

Go back and read my old posts cuz I've said this several times but I'll repeat it:

If JP doesn't prove himself this year, the Bills need to look elsewhere for a QB. If that happens, my preference would be to find a proven starter via trade/FA like the Saints did with Brees (also, not drafting a QB would allow the team to use the pick for another need). But I also understand that those guys are rare finds- most teams don't let good QB's get away- so there's a good chance we'll have to draft a guy if JP fails this year.

This organization has a lot riding on JP. If he's not our franchise QB, expect another 2-3 years of struggling while we groom a new QB (and that's assuming the new QB isn't the next Collins/Johnson).

[justasportsfan]

True but the great GMs who do their homework the best are right alot more often than they are wrong. MArv hasn't done anything wrong in the draft to lead me to believe he doesn't do his homework. I think you agree with that. While he isn't a great GM he hasn't shown to be bad either , SO FAR.

[PECKERWOOD]

I'm not being sarcastic, I'm asking a SERIOUS question ..


At what point will the JP lovers SERIOUSLY say this guy just doesnt have what it takes to be a consistent, winning NFL quarterback?

Honestly, at what point does that happen? A couple of more embarassing losses? A few more telegraphed picks? 8 sacks in a game? End of season? Next season?
I will be able to make a better assesment after the season, than I could make right now. However, I will say this. We will be able to see how good JP is, when we get some actual talent around him on offense. One of the reasons I support JP, is because even when were down he doesnt give up. He orchestrated a solid drive versus the Lions in the 4th quarter. Its good that he can fight back like that, but I want to see more consistency out of JP and the run game as a whole.

I know some of these losses are tough for you guys, I expect the harsh criticism from the most passionate fans in the NFL. Only way I would totally give up on JP, is if he played like Rex Grossman last night, for every remaining game of the season. lol

[kernowboy]

Pat,
It looks like there is nothing in Free Agency at the moment for 2007 and my concern is whoever we draft or sign at QB will get killed if:
1. We don't completely overhaul the OL
2. We don't sign a decent TE
3. We need to also consider the DL

The 2007 free agency class is lining up to be one of the poorest ever.
At the moment Schaub will be restricted so will cost draft picks and we've been down that road with Johnson. Steinbach could be a LT but is really the only decent OL FA so will get either the transition or the franchise tag. We may have a decent run at Daniel Graham for the TE slot.
Do we draft another QB? I say yes if we sign Graham at TE as we will probably draft around 5-10 and with the OL depth can get a decent LT in the 2nd. I say no if we don't get Graham and we just have to wait until the 2008 class for the qb of the future again. I am tired of getting in a decent QB and protecting him with muppets. Lets get the protection in first

[Dont drink the water]

Exactly..(add Heath Shuler in there as well) and unfortunately, I think that's exactly what will happen.. In my opinion, he possesses NONE of the intangibles that make a great QB


QQQ gives the TTTT what they haven't had at quarterback: a guy who's going to make good decisions on a weekly basis. Unlike previous QQQ , QQQ has the ability to consistently pull out close games. We saw evidence of that against the OOOO with those two fourth-quarter drives.

With QQQQ, the TTTT now have a guy capable of minimizing bad plays. If the coaching staff calls a play that turns out to be bad against a particular defense, QQQQ knows to get rid of the ball instead of holding onto it too long for a sack or forcing a bad throw that leads to an interception.

This quote from last week does not ever seem to apply to JP unfortunately; for all his college acclaim his game does not appear to be able to risen to next level. The Quote was regard Brees of the Saints by the way, a QB who had some issues in beginning but they were not decision issues.

Another quote on another team:

We've seen a number of big plays from this offense, including Donovan McNabb's 60-yard touchdown reception to Reggie Brown in the third quarter against the Saints. But my concern is whether they're going to convert a big third down when they need 8-10 yards. You have to keep the chains moving and Philly was unable to do that after temporarily taking the lead on Sunday.

Big plays we have seen but consistency we haven't. Work on the workman plays like screens, fakes, precision short passes not try to use the big play as a way to say "See what the QB can do!"

Oh and to answer your first question - I think some will NEVER let go and become cynical whiners of Bills while claiming to be Bills fans after JP is long gone.

[Philagape]

I've always said the season and I stand by it. With the team as bad as it is, playoffs are out of the question, so the entire purpose of the 2006 season is JP's chance.

[jmb1099]

You guys keep making it sound like the only thing he's done is suck it up which is not the case. That being said he needs to continue to improve and be consistent. He has improved over last year in many ways, but there is more improvement needed. If that doesn't happen by the end of the season than cya

[TacklingDummy]

so the entire purpose of the 2006 season is JP's chance.


Tell that to the other 52 people on the roster.

[PECKERWOOD]

Tell that to the other 52 people on the roster.
Why doesnt he deserve a chance? Everybody on our roster got a 'chance' somewhere or another, if not, they simply wouldnt be on the roster.

As far as, your comment about the other 52 people on the roster. I think they dont mind, the team has really rallied around JP. I know that Evans and Roscoe Parrish sure like him alot. Willis has said some good things about JP too.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I am not willing to give JP past this season to prove he has it. Line or no line he needs to show something this season.

[TacklingDummy]

Why doesnt he deserve a chance? Everybody on our roster got a 'chance' somewhere or another, if not, they simply wouldnt be on the roster.

.

Did I say he doesn't deserve a chance? I've said since pre-season began that JP should start the whole year.

I was disagreeing with the post about "entire purpose of the 2006 season is JP's chance." That is not even close to the enitre purpose of this season.

And some people wonder why people criticize JP so much. It's stupid posts like that one that make me go off and write stupid posts in response. Not your post, the original one i quoted.

[Mahdi]

I am not willing to give JP past this season to prove he has it. Line or no line he needs to show something this season.
Well then hopefully he keeps running away from his O-line more often, the further he gets from them the more good things happen.

[BillsFever21]

Exactly.

Go back and read my old posts cuz I've said this several times but I'll repeat it:

If JP doesn't prove himself this year, the Bills need to look elsewhere for a QB. If that happens, my preference would be to find a proven starter via trade/FA like the Saints did with Brees (also, not drafting a QB would allow the team to use the pick for another need). But I also understand that those guys are rare finds- most teams don't let good QB's get away- so there's a good chance we'll have to draft a guy if JP fails this year.

This organization has a lot riding on JP. If he's not our franchise QB, expect another 2-3 years of struggling while we groom a new QB (and that's assuming the new QB isn't the next Collins/Johnson).

Even if JP is the guy expect another 2-3 years of struggling as long as this coaching staff is in place and we don't finally try and fix the OL for once.

We have a terrible OL. We don't have a TE that can make any kind of an impact in the passing game. We don't have a true #2 WR on the team and our best WR isn't close to being one of the top #1 WR's in the league. He's in the Top 15. We have a proven failure as our HC. He failed in Chicago, failed in Detroit and is failing in Buffalo. We have an OC who is calling plays for the first time in his career and isn't doing a very good job at it.

Our playcalling is terrible. We're passing almost twice the amount of times that we run the ball. And when we do run the ball we're not having any success.

JP is completing about 65% of his passes. He is on pace for a steady 20+ TD's this season.

We have a bad coaching staff that isn't helping out our passing game one bit with the playcalling and our OL can't block on a regular basis to let him set and throw all the time.

With all the negatives on our team Losman is the only one making any positive plays. We've only had 1 game this year that we rushed for 100 yards and/or averaged 4ypc.

We have an OL that can't block to let McGahee get any yards and can't pass block either. We have a bunch of short WR's that are #3 WR's at best in this league. With no running game, terrible pass blocking, bad playcalling and nothing but average WR's outside of Evans he has made some good strides this year.

With no running game or playcalling to keep the defense honest, terrible pass blocking and a bunch of WR's that can't get seperation most of the time how much success do you think a QB is gonna have in this league?

Some of you act like JP is the only reason why we've lost 2 in a row. The defense is getting decimated out there. Kevin Jones ran for 100 yards for the first time in over a year on us.

Not making excuses cause these are all facts. This is a very poor coached team and not one aspect of the team is doing well. McGahee sure hasn't made any plays out there lately. JP is the only one I see making any plays at all out there.

[HHURRICANE]

If he continues to show, through about 5-7 more games, that he can't:

-- throw a four yard pass accurately

-- score 20 points in a ball game

-- get the offense into any kind of rhythm

-- limit unnecessary turnovers

These are all things that he definitely needs to work and improve on.

I think this just ended the thread!! Nice post.

[Jan Reimers]

I'm not being sarcastic, I'm asking a SERIOUS question ..


At what point will the JP lovers SERIOUSLY say this guy just doesnt have what it takes to be a consistent, winning NFL quarterback?

Honestly, at what point does that happen? A couple of more embarassing losses? A few more telegraphed picks? 8 sacks in a game? End of season? Next season?
When the coaching staff loosens his leash, designs some plays to take advantage of his athleticism, and lets him make plays. Right now, he is programmed to be a straight pocket passer, operating behind a God-awful O line.

Let's let the kid run around and play. We might see something we like.

If JP still doesn't perform, we ought to bring in Jesus Christ, who is the only one who could perform miracles behind our O line.

[ScottLawrence]

Jesus....OUR OFFENSIVE LINE IS NOT THAT BAD!

When Losman plays well, the offensive line is solid, when he plays bad, the offensive line is horrible.

Complete Bull ****.

People said the same thing about Bledsoe for 3 straight years, look at him now in Dallas, he still sucks no matter how good or bad the offensive line plays.

Everyone here makes it look like the offensive line breaks down every time Losman drops back to pass, and thats just not true.

As far as im concearned, I've seen enough, he doesn't have the intangibles you look for in a good quarterback, he makes bonehead plays in crucial situations.

Hes another Kordell Stewart/Rob Johnson.

[TacklingDummy]

Jesus....OUR OFFENSIVE LINE IS NOT THAT BAD!

When Losman plays well, the offensive line is solid, when he plays bad, the offensive line is horrible.

Complete Bull ****.

People said the same thing about Bledsoe for 3 straight years, look at him now in Dallas, he still sucks no matter how good or bad the offensive line plays.

Everyone here makes it look like the offensive line breaks down every time Losman drops back to pass, and thats just not true.

As far as im concearned, I've seen enough, he doesn't have the intangibles you look for in a good quarterback, he makes bonehead plays in crucial situations.

Hes another Kordell Stewart/Rob Johnson.

POST OF THE DAY. Well said. :clap:

[Jan Reimers]

Jesus....OUR OFFENSIVE LINE IS NOT THAT BAD!
Compared to what?

Have you been watching our games?

[Patrick76777]

Jesus....OUR OFFENSIVE LINE IS NOT THAT BAD!

When Losman plays well, the offensive line is solid, when he plays bad, the offensive line is horrible.

Complete Bull ****.

People said the same thing about Bledsoe for 3 straight years, look at him now in Dallas, he still sucks no matter how good or bad the offensive line plays.

Everyone here makes it look like the offensive line breaks down every time Losman drops back to pass, and thats just not true.

As far as im concearned, I've seen enough, he doesn't have the intangibles you look for in a good quarterback, he makes bonehead plays in crucial situations.

Hes another Kordell Stewart/Rob Johnson.

Right on the money!

[LtBillsFan66]

Losman was sacked a few times on some OL breakdowns. What QB isn't?

[justasportsfan]

Jesus....OUR OFFENSIVE LINE IS NOT THAT BAD!

When Losman plays well, the offensive line is solid, when he plays bad, the offensive line is horrible.

Complete Bull ****.

People said the same thing about Bledsoe for 3 straight years, look at him now in Dallas, he still sucks no matter how good or bad the offensive line plays.

Everyone here makes it look like the offensive line breaks down every time Losman drops back to pass, and thats just not true.

As far as im concearned, I've seen enough, he doesn't have the intangibles you look for in a good quarterback, he makes bonehead plays in crucial situations.

Hes another Kordell Stewart/Rob Johnson.

POST OF THE DAY. Well said. :clap:


Haha! A JP hater agreeing with a Holcomb fan. Surprise ,surprise.

[BillsFever21]

Some of you act like JP hasn't completed a pass this year or scored a TD.

He is the only one I see making any plays out there on offense. He has 8 TD's and McGahee has 1 TD.

JP is completing over 60% of his passes for decent yardage. He isn't the only one responsible for us being 2-4.

When we win the haters say we won in spite of Losman no matter how many plays he made. When we lose it's only his fault even though he was the only one who made any gamebreaking plays out there.

On a good team with a good coaching staff Losman's efforts would've been rewarded with more victories. On a team with a HC that has a career record of 37-52 that can't lead their team to victories this is what you're gonna get.

The HC is the most important part of a team. A great HC can make a team look good. A bad HC can make a team look bad. We have a bad HC.

[Jan Reimers]

The point is, we DID have a crappy line in front of Drew Bledsoe, and that was a disaster for a totally immobile QB.

We still DO have a crappy line in front of JP, but it doesn't have to be a disaster. He has the mobility to at least be respectable in spite of the weak line.

The coaching staff needs to take advantage of JP's abilities, rather than forcing him to be a pure drop back passer. I defy the best pocket passers in this league to put up great numbers in front of this line.

[X-Era]

I'm not being sarcastic, I'm asking a SERIOUS question ..


At what point will the JP lovers SERIOUSLY say this guy just doesnt have what it takes to be a consistent, winning NFL quarterback?

Honestly, at what point does that happen? A couple of more embarassing losses? A few more telegraphed picks? 8 sacks in a game? End of season? Next season?

Its the end of the season.

Now, if he has shown that he is getting better and looks like a solid average QB at the end of the year, Id have to say the Bills will stick with him. Theres no reason to believe he wont continue to get even better.

But if he is no better than he is now and still is making lots of mistakes, the team will again be in bigtime peril and in need of a long term answer at QB.

He gets till the end of the year. And despite what some say, hes played better this year than last, still not able to carry us to wins, but better. That means he has shown the ability to get better. If he tops out as a QB that we cant count on or that makes plays and few mistakes, well its time to go hunting again.

[raphael120]

well you know what, if jp does suck ass and shows no improvement by the end of the season, we're going to have a top 10 pick in the draft anyways, so pick up a decent QB and throw him in there when he is ready

[raphael120]

or, draft 2 first round OL, trade up for something worthwhile.

[HHURRICANE]

Jesus....OUR OFFENSIVE LINE IS NOT THAT BAD!

When Losman plays well, the offensive line is solid, when he plays bad, the offensive line is horrible.


Let's vote right now!! Who thinks "our offensive line is not that bad"??

Our best OL is an undrafted converted TE!!

The other 3 are cast offs.

Villareal is past his mediocre heights!!

[SquishDaFish]

Our OL is better then the last couple years but STILL SUCKS! Gandy and Vilarial need to go!

[OpIv37]

Jesus....OUR OFFENSIVE LINE IS NOT THAT BAD!

When Losman plays well, the offensive line is solid, when he plays bad, the offensive line is horrible.

Complete Bull ****.

People said the same thing about Bledsoe for 3 straight years, look at him now in Dallas, he still sucks no matter how good or bad the offensive line plays.

Everyone here makes it look like the offensive line breaks down every time Losman drops back to pass, and thats just not true.

As far as im concearned, I've seen enough, he doesn't have the intangibles you look for in a good quarterback, he makes bonehead plays in crucial situations.

Hes another Kordell Stewart/Rob Johnson.

dude what game did you watch? Gandy whiffed on Hall multiple times, including JP's fumble. And on a few of those 7 sacks, JP held the ball too long. But there were other times when he had no chance.

And this isn't even getting into the running game. How many times have we seen Willis get the ball and have a wall of humanity with no holes in front of him?

This OL is terrible.

[The_Philster]

dude what game did you watch? Gandy whiffed on Hall multiple times, including JP's fumble. And on a few of those 7 sacks, JP held the ball too long. But there were other times when he had no chance.

And this isn't even getting into the running game. How many times have we seen Willis get the ball and have a wall of humanity with no holes in front of him?

This OL is terrible.
I think it's pretty obvious he wasn't watching the Bills game...hasn't for a while

anyway, as for my answer, when he shows he's no longer improving past mediocre play. He played pretty well a few weeks ago...regessed badly against the Bears...slowly built up a little bit against the Lions. He has to at least get back to that "pretty well" level for me to have much confidence in him again.
Can't go by how many points the team scores...that's all based on everyone around him as well. JP could play like an All-Pro making ace decisions and beautiful passes all season long...but if he's surrounded by a bunch of turds, so, to speak, the team won't do well.

[TacklingDummy]

Some of you act like JP hasn't completed a pass this year or scored a TD.

He is the only one I see making any plays out there on offense. He has 8 TD's and McGahee has 1 TD.



In 6 games the Bills have had 9 Offensive Touchdown. How many of those 9 TDs came on a good drives. Yes, I know they all ended with a Touchdwon so they must be considered good. That's simple not the case. How many drives did we have with no fluke plays, penalties, or garbage time involved that led to a touchdown? 1 maybe 2?

TD against NE: If Anthony Thomas doesn't break a 18 yard run for a TD does anyone really think we would of scored anything more then a FG?

TD against Miami; Key play, 50 yard pass interfernce call.

TDs against Jets: Parrish takes a short pass and run for 51 yards, other TD comes on a sandlot football run by Losman.

TDs agaisnt Vikings: Willis scores on a 12 play drive and Price takes a horrible
pass and turns it into a TD,

TD vs Bears: A gift at the end of the game setup by the Bears fumbling.

TDs vs Lions: Parrish on a 44 yard sandlot football play and a TD Rec by Neufld when the Lions D was playing prevent.

Im sorry but sandlot football does not win many games.

[patmoran2006]

JP played GOOD against the Vikings and he played smart against Miami and New England..

Depsite his numbers, his turnovers blew the game against the Jets..

He was BAD versus Detroit.. and he was alarmingly dispicible against Chicago..