JP's not the problem, but don't expect him to be the solution!!

[HHURRICANE]

JP is not the reason we are losing. Was I hoping that some of the stupid things he does would be eliminated by now? Yes. Is that harder to do on a crappy team? Yes.

The kid is going to have a hard time getting in a rythm when he's blind sided one minute and than has time the next. The line is not consistant and so goes the QB. Period. He is not the reason we are losing. McGahee is not playing all that well. Spikes was horrible on Sunday. Kelsay, Denney, and Schobel cannot generate any kind of pass rush. In turn McGee and Clements are getting smoked. This team is bad.

Do you really think a different QB is going to change our win/loss record? C'mon. Did Leinart play well last night? Damn straight. Did part of me wish he was here? Absolutely? Would we be better than 2-4 with him here? No!!!!

[PECKERWOOD]

I personally think JP is the solution. If I didnt think he was the solution, I wouldnt want him here.

[The_Philster]

I personally think JP is the solution. If I didnt think he was the solution, I wouldnt want him here.
he can't be the solution without help...no QB can be,. I think that's what the post is getting at...JP ain't gonna win it all on his own

[PECKERWOOD]

he can't be the solution without help...no QB can be,. I think that's what the post is getting at...JP ain't gonna win it all on his own
Couldnt agree more. I just feel that he is a big piece to the puzzle, and with the right supporting cast, he could help us win a superbowl.

[X-Era]

he can't be the solution without help...no QB can be,. I think that's what the post is getting at...JP ain't gonna win it all on his own

I think we finally address the o-line this offseason.

Some things are working against us though.

We are going to let Clements walk and will immediately need a replacement. Your booty hasnt played a single down yet. Most GM's would draft a lock down corner over a OT.

[Jimbuktu]

the only thing we should worry about in the offseason are the offensive and defensive trenches!

YOU CANNOT BUILD A HOUSE WITHOUT A FOUNDATION! IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT

[ICE74129]

he can't be the solution without help...no QB can be,. I think that's what the post is getting at...JP ain't gonna win it all on his ownNeither will lionert, cuttler, young, etal

[PECKERWOOD]

the only thing we should worry about in the offseason are the offensive and defensive trenches!

YOU CANNOT BUILD A HOUSE WITHOUT A FOUNDATION! IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT
Nice analogy Jimbo.

[ICE74129]

the only thing we should worry about in the offseason are the offensive and defensive trenches!

YOU CANNOT BUILD A HOUSE WITHOUT A FOUNDATION! IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT

See ever since Polian left we have had **** for OLmen outside of the young ruben brown. Marv has always, and apperantly is doing so again, went with cheaper/mid round talent hoping they would develop. Its past time to get a REAL OL in here esp at LT.

[The_Philster]

we had a pretty good O-line in 95...and for the first part of 96

[YardRat]

YOU CANNOT BUILD A HOUSE WITHOUT A FOUNDATION! IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT

Actually, you can. But that's beside the point.

One word - Turnovers. Our offense has been committing too many and our defense hasn't been creating enough.

[ScottLawrence]

JP is not the reason we are losing. Was I hoping that some of the stupid things he does would be eliminated by now? Yes. Is that harder to do on a crappy team? Yes.

The kid is going to have a hard time getting in a rythm when he's blind sided one minute and than has time the next. The line is not consistant and so goes the QB. Period. He is not the reason we are losing. McGahee is not playing all that well. Spikes was horrible on Sunday. Kelsay, Denney, and Schobel cannot generate any kind of pass rush. In turn McGee and Clements are getting smoked. This team is bad.

Do you really think a different QB is going to change our win/loss record? C'mon. Did Leinart play well last night? Damn straight. Did part of me wish he was here? Absolutely? Would we be better than 2-4 with him here? No!!!!

It did last year.

4-4 under Holcomb, 1-7 under Losman.

IM not saying we should replace Losman with Holcomb, its pointless now, but a good quarterback really helps to hide flaws on a team.

Look at the Colts, who rank next to last in the NFL in stopping the run, but are 5-0

Same could be said for the Patriots, with no name WR's, or even the Saints.(Who also rank next to last in the NFL in stopping the run)

Quarterbacks go a long way in helping a team.

All the winning teams in the NFL have the top quarterbacks in the league on there team.

In my oponion, it's the main reason why this team hasn't been to the playoffs in 6 years going on 7......We haven't had a quarterback.

[ICE74129]

we had a pretty good O-line in 95...and for the first part of 96yeah but polian helped build it. He left in what..93? I think it was that offseason we lost him.

Also brown was a rookie in 95 and marv allowed him to play immediately upgrading the LG spot.

[ICE74129]

It did last year.

4-4 under Holcomb, 1-7 under Losman.

IM not saying we should replace Losman with Holcomb, its pointless now, but a good quarterback really helps to hide flaws on a team.

Look at the Colts, who rank next to last in the NFL in stopping the run, but are 5-0

Same could be said for the Patriots, with no name WR's, or even the Saints.(Who also rank next to last in the NFL in stopping the run)

Quarterbacks go a long way in helping a team.

All the winning teams in the NFL have the top quarterbacks in the league on there team.

Uh again I have to correct you, its 2-7 and 3-4. You can hide behind the NFL official stats but the REALITY and the FACTS are Losman won the KC game.

[ScottLawrence]

Uh again I have to correct you, its 2-7 and 3-4. You can hide behind the NFL official stats but the REALITY and the FACTS are Losman won the KC game.

No its 1-7, and 4-4.

Losman didn't start that game, Holcomb did.

AS A STARTER, Holcomb was 4-4, Losman was 1-7.

Losman came off the bench, Holcomb started the game.

And it wasn't the point of my post.

[ScottLawrence]

THe O-Line is not good by any means, but its not as bad as everyone here says it is.

Losman holds the ball too long, and takes dumb sacks, then of course the O-Line is horrible.

[BidsJr]

No its 1-7, and 4-4.

Losman didn't start that game, Holcomb did.

AS A STARTER, Holcomb was 4-4, Losman was 1-7.

Losman came off the bench, Holcomb started the game.

And it wasn't the point of my post.

Ignorant posting.

:horsecrap:

Get a freaking clue, then watch the games.

[YardRat]

See ever since Polian left we have had **** for OLmen outside of the young ruben brown. Marv has always, and apperantly is doing so again, went with cheaper/mid round talent hoping they would develop. Its past time to get a REAL OL in here esp at LT.

Kent Hull was a USFL alum.

John Davis was a Plan B free agent.

Howard Ballard was a late round draft choice.

Will Wolford and Jim Ritcher were first rounders, 20th and 16th respectively. Wolford the only one drafted by Polian.

Glenn Parker was a third rounder in '90.

Bill Polian drafted ONE offensive lineman in the first round that was on the line that started the Super Bowl runs. One.

Marv's had one draft. Give him time.

[Philagape]

Uh again I have to correct you, its 2-7 and 3-4. You can hide behind the NFL official stats but the REALITY and the FACTS are Losman won the KC game.

That's what crosses the line from JP criticism to JP hate. Only a HATER would use a stat that any third-grader knows is irrelevant.

[RockStar36]

It did last year.

4-4 under Holcomb, 1-7 under Losman.

IM not saying we should replace Losman with Holcomb, its pointless now, but a good quarterback really helps to hide flaws on a team.

Look at the Colts, who rank next to last in the NFL in stopping the run, but are 5-0

Same could be said for the Patriots, with no name WR's, or even the Saints.(Who also rank next to last in the NFL in stopping the run)

Quarterbacks go a long way in helping a team.

All the winning teams in the NFL have the top quarterbacks in the league on there team.

In my oponion, it's the main reason why this team hasn't been to the playoffs in 6 years going on 7......We haven't had a quarterback.


To be fair...

Take one game away from Holcomb (a win) and add that to Losman's win total. Holcomb didn't do **** to win that KC game.

[RockStar36]

Kent Hull was a USFL alum.

John Davis was a Plan B free agent.

Howard Ballard was a late round draft choice.

Will Wolford and Jim Ritcher were first rounders, 20th and 16th respectively. Wolford the only one drafted by Polian.

Glenn Parker was a third rounder in '90.

Bill Polian drafted ONE offensive lineman in the first round that was on the line that started the Super Bowl runs. One.

Marv's had one draft. Give him time.

I know what you're saying. But as a fan, I'm so sick and tired of waiting. What will this be? Year 7? Maybe it's time to start blaming the Music City Miracle and label it a curse.

[BidsJr]

Don't mind Scott Bledsoe anyway. He's been pissed ever since he got cut.

:horsecrap:

[X-Era]

Kent Hull was a USFL alum.

John Davis was a Plan B free agent.

Howard Ballard was a late round draft choice.

Will Wolford and Jim Ritcher were first rounders, 20th and 16th respectively. Wolford the only one drafted by Polian.

Glenn Parker was a third rounder in '90.

Bill Polian drafted ONE offensive lineman in the first round that was on the line that started the Super Bowl runs. One.

Marv's had one draft. Give him time.
Using your point for a minute, a hall of fame QB, RB, WR (most likely), and DE can go to the SB with late round lineman?

If true, we can attack this problem one of two ways, add some serious talent at key positions, or get all world lines.

Id say we should do BOTH. Get bigtim upgrades on the lines, and drastically improve the trenches.

Obviously we cant get all world anything, but we CAN make big trades, signings and get great potential players in the draft. If you go cheap on any of those routes you put your possibility of success in jeopardy.

[BidsJr]

I know what you're saying. But as a fan, I'm so sick and tired of waiting. What will this be? Year 7? Maybe it's time to start blaming the Music City Miracle and label it a curse.

I agree but Marv billieves in the trenches. That is where this team lacks.

[YardRat]

I know what you're saying. But as a fan, I'm so sick and tired of waiting. What will this be? Year 7? Maybe it's time to start blaming the Music City Miracle and label it a curse.

Bingo. Now you know how some feel about the QB position. Same way you do about the offensive line.

[ScottLawrence]

Don't mind Scott Bledsoe anyway. He's been pissed ever since he got cut.

:horsecrap:

Bledsoe?

I've said Bledsoe sucks since 2003.

THe guys the biggest tease in the NFL.

He'll beat up on the weak teams of the league, then play like a pussy on the road against the better teams.


He should've been gone after the 2003 season, The trade for Bledsoe, ultimately killed Donahoe in Buffalo, as well as his neglect for the offensive line.

I don't know where people get the idea I liked Bledsoe.

[X-Era]

Don't mind Scott Bledsoe anyway. He's been pissed ever since he got cut.

:horsecrap:

Drew has Flo Adams, a multi team SB winning HC, TO, and a decent defense and STILL has a lower passers rating than JP!

[BidsJr]

Bingo. Now you know how some feel about the QB position. Same way you do about the offensive line.

13 starts.
JP needs to work on QB'ing just like you need to work on patience.

[PECKERWOOD]

It did last year.

4-4 under Holcomb, 1-7 under Losman.

IM not saying we should replace Losman with Holcomb, its pointless now, but a good quarterback really helps to hide flaws on a team.

Look at the Colts, who rank next to last in the NFL in stopping the run, but are 5-0

Same could be said for the Patriots, with no name WR's, or even the Saints.(Who also rank next to last in the NFL in stopping the run)

Quarterbacks go a long way in helping a team.

All the winning teams in the NFL have the top quarterbacks in the league on there team.

In my oponion, it's the main reason why this team hasn't been to the playoffs in 6 years going on 7......We haven't had a quarterback.
The Colts are truly an exception. Its not just Peyton who makes them look better, they have Pro Bowlers all over their offensive line. Did I mention they have the best reciever in the NFL(Harrison), and they got a solid #2 in Wayne. Reggie could be a #1 WR even without Marvin, so its almost like Peyton has 2 #1's to throw to. Plus, I dont think Indy's D is as bad as it was made out to be. Cado June is a stud LB, they got two stud DE's in Mathis and Freeney, they got Marlin Jackson who has been pretty solid so far.

I respect your opinion and agree with the last sentence in bold, to an extent. We have been screwed at the QB position for years.. I was by no means a Drewpie, but he wasnt that bad. Once, Drew got here, I started to notice our OL was giving up tons of sacks. Everybody(including me), brushed off our line as a result of Drew Bledsoes inept ability to scramble and avoid pressure. But now, we got JP, in there, who can scramble and avoid pressure well if he sees it for the most part. Yet our QB still kept getting sacked. Its really unfortunate our OL is in shambles, it is definately a pressing need and hopefully Marv and Modrak, can find an answer for us.

[X-Era]

Bingo. Now you know how some feel about the QB position. Same way you do about the offensive line.

So the complaint is just frustration?

I cant see any way out of suffering on the field to develop a young QB.

If we draft a new one, he will struggle.

We cant, or wont trade or sign a big name.

Im just hoping and praying that JP gets it so the blood letting can come to an end.

I guess Im just willing to hang on to hope a bit longer, and I feel history is behind us being more patient.

[RockStar36]

Bingo. Now you know how some feel about the QB position. Same way you do about the offensive line.

But then what do you want done about the QB situation. It's foolish to think Kelly Holcomb can lead this team. And last year was a wasted year. If they went 5-11 last year w/ JP starting all the games I could sit back and say, ok maybe this kid won't work out. I'll take the high draft pick and move on. Instead they take the high draft pick and still don't know what they have at the QB position. Thanks Mike.

But anyways, I just don't see what people want done about QB? Sign a big name FA? Because drafting a guy will lead to more years of guessing, waiting, and hoping.

[PECKERWOOD]

Oh yah, one thing the Saints have that the Bills dont have. A running game. Deuce and Bush, just wow.. That takes so much pressure off of Brees, defenses are wasting 'x' player to spy on Bush every snap.

[YardRat]

Using your point for a minute, a hall of fame QB, RB, WR (most likely), and DE can go to the SB with late round lineman?

If true, we can attack this problem one of two ways, add some serious talent at key positions, or get all world lines.

Id say we should do BOTH. Get bigtim upgrades on the lines, and drastically improve the trenches.

Obviously we cant get all world anything, but we CAN make big trades, signings and get great potential players in the draft. If you go cheap on any of those routes you put your possibility of success in jeopardy.

Nobody KNEW at the time that particular unit was going to develop the way they did. Kent Hull wasn't even good enough for the NFL the first time around, and he was an afterthought because Kelly came to town the same day.

John Davis was a back-up in Green Bay that few fans had even heard of. Ballard was a gamble. Ritcher and Wolford were blue-chippers who lived up to their billing. Parker wasn't expected to be as versatile and valuable as he became, otherwise he would have been drafted higher. Hell, the guy was railroaded out of town even though he was probably our best o-lineman at the time.

It took time for these guys to develop and realize their potential. If you're so willing to give JP a pass and wait for him to develop, why not show the same patience for the guys up front?

For all we know, next year or in '08, we may be talking about Peters-Reyes-Fowler-Preston-Player X being the best line in football. Maybe even Gandy is part of that mix.

[ScottLawrence]

The Colts are truly an exception. Its not just Peyton who makes them look better, they have Pro Bowlers all over their offensive line. Did I mention they have the best reciever in the NFL(Harrison), and they got a solid #2 in Wayne. Reggie could be a #1 WR even without Marvin, so its almost like Peyton has 2 #1's to throw to. Plus, I dont think Indy's D is as bad as it was made out to be. Cado June is a stud LB, they got two stud DE's in Mathis and Freeney, they got Marlin Jackson who has been pretty solid so far.

I respect your opinion and agree with the last sentence in bold, to an extent. We have been screwed at the QB position for years.. I was by no means a Drewpie, but he wasnt that bad. Once, Drew got here, I started to notice our OL was giving up tons of sacks. Everybody(including me), brushed off our line as a result of Drew Bledsoes inept ability to scramble and avoid pressure. But now, we got JP, in there, who can scramble and avoid pressure well if he sees it for the most part. Yet our QB still kept getting sacked. Its really unfortunate our OL is in shambles, it is definately a pressing need and hopefully Marv and Modrak, can find an answer for us.

THe offensive line definitly needs upgrading, theres no question.

But the Losmanaics make it sound like theres pressure on JP every time he steps back to pass.

Simply not true, this is probably the best offensive line we've had in several years, and outside of the Detroit game, its done a pretty good job in pass blocking.

JP is about as bad as Drew Bledsoe when it comes to feeling pressure, and knowing when to get rid of the ball.


You disagree with my assesment on the Saints?

Brees is doing exceptional up there, which is basically why the team is sitting at 5-1 right now.

[X-Era]

Nobody KNEW at the time that particular unit was going to develop the way they did. Kent Hull wasn't even good enough for the NFL the first time around, and he was an afterthought because Kelly came to town the same day.

John Davis was a back-up in Green Bay that few fans had even heard of. Ballard was a gamble. Ritcher and Wolford were blue-chippers who lived up to their billing. Parker wasn't expected to be as versatile and valuable as he became, otherwise he would have been drafted higher. Hell, the guy was railroaded out of town even though he was probably our best o-lineman at the time.

It took time for these guys to develop and realize their potential. If you're so willing to give JP a pass and wait for him to develop, why not show the same patience for the guys up front?

For all we know, next year or in '08, we may be talking about Peters-Reyes-Fowler-Preston-Player X being the best line in football. Maybe even Gandy is part of that mix.

No disagreement, i am willing to wait. But it isnt like we have made our lines a priority either.

[PECKERWOOD]

Nobody KNEW at the time that particular unit was going to develop the way they did. Kent Hull wasn't even good enough for the NFL the first time around, and he was an afterthought because Kelly came to town the same day.

John Davis was a back-up in Green Bay that few fans had even heard of. Ballard was a gamble. Ritcher and Wolford were blue-chippers who lived up to their billing. Parker wasn't expected to be as versatile and valuable as he became, otherwise he would have been drafted higher. Hell, the guy was railroaded out of town even though he was probably our best o-lineman at the time.

It took time for these guys to develop and realize their potential. If you're so willing to give JP a pass and wait for him to develop, why not show the same patience for the guys up front?

For all we know, next year or in '08, we may be talking about Peters-Reyes-Fowler-Preston-Player X being the best line in football. Maybe even Gandy is part of that mix.
I wouldnt mind keeping Reyes, Fowler and Peters, to see how they turn out. I went on record before saying that Reyes and Fowler were great signings. Our OL does suck. I think its mostly to blame on the vet guys in all actuallity. Gandy has been giving up many sacks, and Villarial can not stay healthy.

[BidsJr]

THe offensive line definitly needs upgrading, theres no question.

But the Losmanaics make it sound like theres pressure on JP every time he steps back to pass.

Simply not true, this is probably the best offensive line we've had in several years, and outside of the Detroit game, its done a pretty good job in pass blocking.


You disagree with my assesment on the Saints?

Brees is doing exceptional up there, which is basically why the team is sitting at 5-1 right now.

In Brees first 31 starts he had 29 td's and 31 int's.

JP at this point has 13 starts.

This is an ignorant comparison.

Brees was given time to develope. JP would need into 2008 before the light goes on to ge tthe same treatment.

:horsecrap:

[YardRat]

13 starts.
JP needs to work on QB'ing just like you need to work on patience.

I find it hypocritical that there are those willing to show patience with JP, yet ready to throw just about any O-lineman except Peters under the bus even though they've only played together for a total of six regular season games.

[BidsJr]

I find it hypocritical that there are those willing to show patience with JP, yet ready to throw just about any O-lineman except Peters under the bus even though they've only played together for a total of six regular season games.

You may very well find it hypocritical, but you will not see me being the hypocrite.

O-Line needs to be better. Period. However that may be; experiance, talent upgrade, whatever.

[YardRat]

But then what do you want done about the QB situation. It's foolish to think Kelly Holcomb can lead this team. And last year was a wasted year. If they went 5-11 last year w/ JP starting all the games I could sit back and say, ok maybe this kid won't work out. I'll take the high draft pick and move on. Instead they take the high draft pick and still don't know what they have at the QB position. Thanks Mike.

But anyways, I just don't see what people want done about QB? Sign a big name FA? Because drafting a guy will lead to more years of guessing, waiting, and hoping.

I addressed that in another thread. I'm not in favor of yanking JP for anybody at this point. Six more games down the road I may feel differently.

[YardRat]

You may very well find it hypocritical, but you will not see me being the hypocrite.

O-Line needs to be better. Period. However that may be; experiance, talent upgrade, whatever.

Quarterback needs to be better also. And if experience isn't proving to be the answer, than a shot at upgrading the talent must be considered.

[PECKERWOOD]

THe offensive line definitly needs upgrading, theres no question.

But the Losmanaics make it sound like theres pressure on JP every time he steps back to pass.

Simply not true, this is probably the best offensive line we've had in several years, and outside of the Detroit game, its done a pretty good job in pass blocking.

JP is about as bad as Drew Bledsoe when it comes to feeling pressure, and knowing when to get rid of the ball.


You disagree with my assesment on the Saints?

Brees is doing exceptional up there, which is basically why the team is sitting at 5-1 right now.
Good response.
I agree with you that our Offensive Line is the best it has been in many years. But by no means is our OL decent. Their still mediocre at best. Gandy and Villarial. Upgrade those spots with two quality men and were golden. I wouldnt say Villarial is that bad, but he can never stay healthy. Having Villarial on our team, means some way into the season he is gonna be injured for atleast a couple weeks. So that means you end up having a back up in there..

I think Brees is a poised QB, no doubt. (I've actually been rooting for the Saints when there playing, since the start of the season since they got hit with Katrina and all.) But anyways, Bush is a huge reason for their success. One of those cases where stats cant speak everything, but he is definately creating mis-match ups, they sometimes have Deuce and Reggie in at the same time, which confuses the hell out of defenses, lol. I watched a clip on NFLN, defensive linemen were actually bumping reggie bush on his routes to set him off, versus rushing Brees. That says alot to me right there.

[ScottLawrence]

In Brees first 31 starts he had 29 td's and 31 int's.

JP at this point has 13 starts.

This is an ignorant comparison.

Brees was given time to develope. JP would need into 2008 before the light goes on to ge tthe same treatment.

:horsecrap:


You have to be able to read to understand my post.


When was I comparing Brees and Losman?

They have nothing to do with eachother.

The Saints picked up Brees after proving his worth with the Chargers the past two seasons.

I said a good quarterback hides flaws on a football team, Brees turned the team around.

[BidsJr]

Quarterback needs to be better also. And if experience isn't proving to be the answer, than a shot at upgrading the talent must be considered.

Might not the QB being better a result of the oline progressing?

How many times did you scream "LOOK OUT" during the game last week for Gandy?



But of course JP should always believe he has time to throw from his blind side. Never be nervous or rattle, from the 5 hits he's already taken.


:horsecrap:

[X-Era]

You have to be able to read to understand my post.


When was I comparing Brees and Losman?

They have nothing to do with eachother.

The Saints picked up Brees after proving his worth with the Chargers the past two seasons.

I said a good quarterback hides flaws on a football team, Brees turned the team around.

I wont disagree with this. I said that if we werent convinced it was JP, we should get Brees.

Many here would have blasted away if we had made that move.

[BidsJr]

You have to be able to read to understand my post.


When was I comparing Brees and Losman?

They have nothing to do with eachother.

The Saints picked up Brees after proving his worth with the Chargers the past two seasons.

I said a good quarterback hides flaws on a football team, Brees turned the team around.

This is tasty. Brees proved his worth after giving time to develop. Bringing his success up is like saying "boy it would be nice to have Peyton Manning." THe Chargers did the right thing GIVING HIM TIME TO DEVELOP. To this point Losman has not had the same time to show "US" wether he may be even better than Brees.

Sorry you lose here.

[YardRat]

How many times did you scream "LOOK OUT" during the game last week for Gandy?

Not nearly as many times as I screamed "THROW THE ********** BALL !!"

[ScottLawrence]

Good response.
I agree with you that our Offensive Line is the best it has been in many years. But by no means is our OL decent. Their still mediocre at best. Gandy and Villarial. Upgrade those spots with two quality men and were golden. I wouldnt say Villarial is that bad, but he can never stay healthy. Having Villarial on our team, means some way into the season he is gonna be injured for atleast a couple weeks. So that means you end up having a back up in there..
I Agree.

The past two games have been nightmares for Gandy, outside of those games, hes been very solid.

Villarrial is old, and injury prone.....Fowler is the best Center we've seen in a while, Reyes is an average guard whos solid in pass protection, and not so good in run blocking, Peters is still developing, and should be very good.

Although I like Gandy, I think we have to pick up a LT in the offseason, and perhaps resign Gandy, and move him inside to Guard.

[BidsJr]

I wont disagree with this. I said that if we werent convinced it was JP, we should get Brees.

Many here would have blasted away if we had made that move.


That is not the point. Brees has had the time. JP has not yet had it.

[ScottLawrence]

I wont disagree with this. I said that if we werent convinced it was JP, we should get Brees.

Many here would have blasted away if we had made that move.

Thats because everyone here is insane, and more concearned with the future then winning now.

[PECKERWOOD]

I Agree.

The past two games have been nightmares for Gandy, outside of those games, hes been very solid.

Villarrial is old, and injury prone.....Fowler is the best Center we've seen in a while, Reyes is an average guard whos solid in pass protection, and not so good in run blocking, Peters is still developing, and should be very good.

Although I like Gandy, I think we have to pick up a LT in the offseason, and perhaps resign Gandy, and move him inside to Guard.
What the hell is going on? Were agreeing on everything. lol.
A stud Left Tackle would be ideal, a RG would also help tremendously.

[BidsJr]

Not nearly as many times as I screamed "THROW THE ********** BALL !!"


Well he did complete 62% of his passes with him holding the ball too long, and getting killed by Gandy.

Maybe with a lil more comfort from the o-line he might meet your lofty expectations.

[ScottLawrence]

That is not the point. Brees has had the time. JP has not yet had it.

Yea and Harrington got all the time in the world.

He still sucks.

[YardRat]

I'm not going to get into the statistics argument...they mean nothing.

Maybe if JP didn't hold on to the ball so long the offensive line would be meeting yours.

[PECKERWOOD]

I'm not going to get into the statistics argument...they mean nothing.

Maybe if JP didn't hold on to the ball so long the offensive line would be meeting yours.
He should throw it away if he has time to. The problem is he gets blindsided frequently, so its kind of hard to throw it away when you can not see the guy coming. We all wish he had eyes on the side of his head, but unfortunately he doesnt.

So Yardrat, I get the implication from you, that our OL is just hunky dory and all these sacks are coming from JP's inability to throw the ball away? I can blame JP for some of the sacks he has taken, but it seems like your blaming all of the mistakes on him, which is pretty irrational.

[Typ0]

JP Definately is not the reason we are losing...there are a lot of reasons. I do think if JP had a QB head on his shoulders we would be playing better...but that doesn't mean he's the reason we're losing at least not the last two. I do think he IS the reason we lost to the JETS though.

But it does bring up a good point...OK so we go out and fix all those other glaring holes on our team. At least we beef up the DL and OL, get another WR, a TE who can catch and be a threat, a big time pass rushing DE and another LB or two. OK so we do all those things and we're looking really good. Are we going to say "OK, now that we have a great team we can cover up the ineptitudes of JP Losman" or are we going to say "jeeze I wish we had a quarterback with a quarterbacks sense"? The reality is JP Losman is not the biggest weakness on this team right now...but that does not mean he isn't weak. What it means is the team stinks. And if it gets fixed then all of a sudden JP Losman is going to be the weakest link. It's time to get a guy who shows up on day one and demonstrates he has the sense to be a good QB I don't care how young or inexperienced he is. I don't care what mistakes we have to live through while he comes into the prime of his career...I just want to see a clear QB mentality something I have not seen in JP.

We should all be tired of waiting and listening to self-proclaimed quarterback experts saying JP Losman is the answer when he keeps hitting the field and making boneheaded plays and clearly lacks awareness of where he is and what's happening on the field.

[Typ0]

at least a guy our players take seriously not some punk kid...this is a big reason our team is falling into the crapper. They don't believe in themselves.

[PECKERWOOD]

JP Definately is not the reason we are losing...there are a lot of reasons. I do think if JP had a QB head on his shoulders we would be playing better...but that doesn't mean he's the reason we're losing at least not the last two. I do think he IS the reason we lost to the JETS though.

But it does bring up a good point...OK so we go out and fix all those other glaring holes on our team. At least we beef up the DL and OL, get another WR, a TE who can catch and be a threat, a big time pass rushing DE and another LB or two. OK so we do all those things and we're looking really good. Are we going to say "OK, now that we have a great team we can cover up the ineptitudes of JP Losman" or are we going to say "jeeze I wish we had a quarterback with a quarterbacks sense"? The reality is JP Losman is not the biggest weakness on this team right now...but that does not mean he isn't weak. What it means is the team stinks. And if it gets fixed then all of a sudden JP Losman is going to be the weakest link. It's time to get a guy who shows up on day one and demonstrates he has the sense to be a good QB I don't care how young or inexperienced he is. I don't care what mistakes we have to live through while he comes into the prime of his career...I just want to see a clear QB mentality something I have not seen in JP.

We should all be tired of waiting and listening to self-proclaimed quarterback experts saying JP Losman is the answer when he keeps hitting the field and making boneheaded plays and clearly lacks awareness of where he is and what's happening on the field.

Im not saying we should cover anything up. I think if JP has the right players around him, he will utilize them effectively. Even, Montana had Jerry Rice to throw to.

Well, you are sitting here talking about JP just as much as anyone else. So what makes other posters here self-proclaimed QB experts. I certainly never said I was an expert, Im simply supporting my QB and expressing how I feel.

Other people see that in JP, you just dont see it. Would you rather send JP to the **** can and he ends up turning out to be a good QB? He has the mentality were looking for, we just need more consistency, not only from him but the whole offense. Why is that so difficult to understand?

[TacklingDummy]

JP is not the reason we are losing.

Yes, JP is part of the reason the Bills are losing.

[kernowboy]

The problem with the line is simple.

Gandy won't be resigned or shouldn't as he is already on $2.5m and won't deserve that as a guard either.

I always thought that rather than Reyes and Fowler, we should have drafted Mike Pearson and Jeff Mitchell.

Ok Pearson wasn't resigned by the Jaguars and was cut by the Dolphins but that had more to do with the money already thrown at Shelton and McIntosh. He would massively upgrade our left tackle position for at least a couple of seasons

Mitchell is still free but could be used to bring along Preston. Fowler is a smallish career back up.

Why we haven't yet given Brad Butler a chance at RT escapes me. We need to see if he can be our Runyan/Jansen. Last year some of his play was at a level of Ferguson drafted 4th overall. And this would allow Peters to move inside where his 328lbs and speed would be hugely effective.

A line of

Pearson - Peters - Mitchell - Villarial/Preston - Butler

Better than what we currently have and it is still possible for the above to happen.

[jamze132]

Actually, you can. But that's beside the point.

One word - Turnovers. Our offense has been committing too many and our defense hasn't been creating enough.
Our offense has been turning the ball over becasue JP get's hit from his blindside too much and when he does see them coming, he has no where to go since the pocket has already collapsed.

[YardRat]

He should throw it away if he has time to. The problem is he gets blindsided frequently, so its kind of hard to throw it away when you can not see the guy coming. We all wish he had eyes on the side of his head, but unfortunately he doesnt.

So Yardrat, I get the implication from you, that our OL is just hunky dory and all these sacks are coming from JP's inability to throw the ball away? I can blame JP for some of the sacks he has taken, but it seems like your blaming all of the mistakes on him, which is pretty irrational.

I've never stated that the o-line is 'just hunky dory' or that JP is the only one making mistakes or playing poorly at times. Of course the offensive line needs to play better and/or get more talented. But so does the quarterback.

The o-line can and should be called out for the jail-break pass rushes and Gandy specifically can be called out for whiffing blocks on JP's blindside. Put five Pro Bowlers in front of JP, though, and it's not going to fix hanging on to the ball too long, locking on an intended target, inaccurate (especially high) short passes/dump-offs, over-throwing open receivers on the long ball, missing or mis-reading the blitz package or coverage he's reading, throwing the ball up for grabs, throwing into double- and triple-coverage, etc, etc.

Comments like these...



Our offense has been turning the ball over becasue JP get's hit from his blindside too much and when he does see them coming, he has no where to go since the pocket has already collapsed.


...hold JP blameless and places the entire burden on the offensive line, which is wrong. They've both made their share of mistakes, and should be held to the same standards.

Fixing JUST the offensive line isn't going to miraculously make JP a consistent QB....Fixing JUST JP isn't going to make the offensive line consistently solid or dominant.

They both need to improve.

[Typ0]

Im not saying we should cover anything up. I think if JP has the right players around him, he will utilize them effectively. Even, Montana had Jerry Rice to throw to.

Well, you are sitting here talking about JP just as much as anyone else. So what makes other posters here self-proclaimed QB experts. I certainly never said I was an expert, Im simply supporting my QB and expressing how I feel.

Other people see that in JP, you just dont see it. Would you rather send JP to the **** can and he ends up turning out to be a good QB? He has the mentality were looking for, we just need more consistency, not only from him but the whole offense. Why is that so difficult to understand?

please don't take that comment about self-proclaimed experts personally. I wasn't talking about you. I wasn't talking about me. I'm talking about anyone who spouts off around here that they demand respect as a QB evaluator because they [self-proclaimed] know more about football than everyone else here. Respect is not something that is demanded it's something that's earned.

I do disagree that he has the mentality we're looking for too...and most people clearly see that. What he has is all the physical ability and many of the skills we are looking for. The mental part of the game he has not really demonstrated well.

[mybills]

THe O-Line is not good by any means, but its not as bad as everyone here says it is.

Losman holds the ball too long, and takes dumb sacks, then of course the O-Line is horrible.
just curious..how much do you blame the coaches for holding the reins on JP? And, do you agree he'd be playing better this year (with some experience under his belt) if they loosen them?

[Typ0]

just curious..how much do you blame the coaches for holding the reins on JP? And, do you agree he'd be playing better this year (with some experience under his belt) if they loosen them?


I don't agree. Putting those reins on is the method to take away someones bad habits efficiently.

[mybills]

A method for his first year as a starter, yes. But his second? Everyone claims he's "experienced" now, so why not let him play naturally?