Its a good thing San Fran never gave up on Steve Young... [Archive] - BillsZone.com

kernowboy

10-18-2006, 07:22 AM

I do agree with you and I don't think there is anything left to be arguing with the JP haters as they will never change their minds.

I think that as we should do with all positions, that all of them will/should be considered at the end of season. This excludes the lines where we need to try to get any marginal/viable available FA and throw out the current trash like Gandhi and Tripplett taking whatever cap hit we have to.

It is a fact that JP has improved, but whether this will be sufficient to ever get us to the Super Bowl is open to question.

If a good QB is available in free agency in 2007 someone like Chad Pennington then they would merit a long look but not someone like Simms or Ramsay.

I am against trying to address this again in the 2007 draft as we need to look at top linemen on both sides, linebackers in case Fletcher-Baker leaves, tight end, and even the Defensive Backs before we consider a QB unless someone like Stanton has a freefall to Round 3.

If the QB issue needs to be addressed with the draft it should be no earlier than 2008 looking at Brian Brohm if he doesn't declare early or Kyle Wright etc. And this will have given Losman a proper season with proper protection and a full compliment of weapons i.e a top TE that all good QBs need. Personally I'd take Dan Graham rather than Jeremy Stevens as the latter has 'issues' ...

to date JP's seasons have been Season 1 - injured, Season 2 - poorly treated by coaches, Season 3 -dreadful OL and no TE worth the name as an outlet. For Season 4, we need to put him in a position where there is no place to hide with a reputable OL and a good TE.

Typ0

10-18-2006, 07:26 AM

JP Losman is not Steve Young. I hope JP gets his head together. As far as his physical tools he certainly has just about everything you would build into a QB if you were able to build one. But in all the time I've seen him play here I really don't feel we've seen the intangibles in him.

Dozerdog

10-18-2006, 07:28 AM

:rofl: at Ice.

Good thing the Edmonton Oilers never gave up on Wayne Gretzky either

Earthquake Enyart

10-18-2006, 07:35 AM

For every Steve Young, there's an Akili Smith.

RedEyE

10-18-2006, 07:43 AM

For every Steve Young, there's an Akili Smith.

Actually, for every Steve Young ther are probably around 6 Akili Smiths.

ICE74129

10-18-2006, 07:48 AM

JP Losman is not Steve Young.
.

Prove it. You can't and you don't know. Steve young wasn't 'steve young' and was considered flat horrible and not an NFL calibre QB even after spending time in the USFL.

You don't give up on a talent like JP's esp when you have a crap team around him. Get him some playmakers, solidify the Defense and the OL. Then you can start making an informed decision about him.

ICE74129

10-18-2006, 07:49 AM

:rofl: at Ice.

Good thing the Edmonton Oilers never gave up on Wayne Gretzky either

If you want to debate facts then debate them. Young sucked in tampa and wasn't that hot in San fran off the bat either. Young was on a crap team and so is JP.

You don't give up on QB's this soon in the NFL, not if you are smart.

Typ0

10-18-2006, 07:49 AM

Prove it. You can't and you don't know. Steve young wasn't 'steve young' and was considered flat horrible and not an NFL calibre QB even after spending time in the USFL.

You don't give up on a talent like JP's esp when you have a crap team around him. Get him some playmakers, solidify the Defense and the OL. Then you can start making an informed decision about him.

you want me to prove that JP Losman is not Steve Young? Are we talking dental records or DNA proof?

ICE74129

10-18-2006, 07:50 AM

you want me to prove that JP Losman is not Steve Young? Are we talking dental records or DNA proof? You said he wasn't so prove it. You know what I am talking about so don't play stupid. I know its hard for you not to, but don't.

Earthquake Enyart

10-18-2006, 07:52 AM

Prove to me that JP isn't Cade McNown. PROVE IT!!!!!

jmb1099

10-18-2006, 08:02 AM

Prove to me that JP isn't Cade McNown. PROVE IT!!!!!
That is Ice's point, not enough time to know either way

kernowboy

10-18-2006, 08:14 AM

Again, I am not sold on JP as the QB of the future. However here is the facts:

1) all the pundits have said his first 2 seasons were wasted due to injury and mismanagment.
2) he has not been provided with an adequate OL or a proper TE. Even Campbell occasionally caught the ball.
3) he might make bad decisions but when you have to rely on Gandy covering your blindside even Tom Brady and Peyton Manning would be making bad decisions.
4) Leinart has had two good games, both losses in a climate controlled stadium and all of a sudden he's the league MVP? All would say that Grossman is playing very well except for last weeks faux pas and it has taken 4 seasons for him due to inury, mismanagement, coaching changes.
5) there are no real alternatives at present. Unless some good QBs get cut like Pennington there is little coming up in FA next year and trading for someone like Schaub carries the risks of another Rob Johnson
6) Losman has been improving. Admittedly from a low start point but improvement is improvement
7) We must not draft a QB in 2007. Why? Because he will be in the same boat as Losman. Next year we must focus on the lines. We need to bring in a QB in 2008 (maybe) who will be protected by a LT with at least a season under his belt like Ferguson at the Jets. When Clemens starts there next season he will be guarded by a player that has overcome his rookie season errors

Inetpub

10-18-2006, 08:17 AM

ICE74129

Originally Posted by Typ0
JP Losman is not Steve Young.

Prove it. You can't and you don't know. Steve young wasn't 'steve young' and was considered flat horrible and not an NFL calibre QB even after spending time in the USFL.

You don't give up on a talent like JP's esp when you have a crap team around him. Get him some playmakers, solidify the Defense and the OL. Then you can start making an informed decision about him.
Seriously this post is STUPID. We dont need to prove JP Losman is Steve Young. His name is JP LOSMAN! Your comparing a HOF QB to JP. LOL. Thats a big stretch there. Soon you'll be comparing dogs to cows. They are 2 different people. JP will never be Steve Young. Nor will he NEVER replicate Steves successes. He might win afew games but comparing a 3rd year unstable QB to a HOF QB, your out of your mind.

Also, We in the forums dont need to prove JP can play and win games like Steve Young. JP has to do that for us. So, unless he does that, JP will be compared to Akili Smith and Rob Johnson.

jamze132

10-18-2006, 08:22 AM

It's amazing how much better a QB can play with a decent O-line.

HHURRICANE

10-18-2006, 08:26 AM

I think if people stay objective than things don't get polarized as much.

Is JP improving? Yes. The numbers vs. last year speak for themselves. Does he still do stupid things? Yes. Is it still too early to say what kind of guy he is going to be? Yes.

To say he sucks, or say he's going to be great at this point are both pretty stupid conclusions.

The thing to keep in mind here is that when he plays well ie. The Vikings Game, the comment shouldn't be "well the team played great" and when he plays badly ie. The Lions game, the comment shouldn't be "If Jp was on a better team.."

Be objective on your criticism.

Dozerdog

10-18-2006, 08:34 AM

If you want to debate facts then debate them. Young sucked in tampa and wasn't that hot in San fran off the bat either. Young was on a crap team and so is JP.

You don't give up on QB's this soon in the NFL, not if you are smart.
Steve Young smashed NCAA records at BYU
Steve Young was a Heisman finalist
Steve Young played 2 seasons in the USFL as one of the top producing QBs in that league behind only Jim Kelly right out of college.
Steve Young then played on a dismal Tampa Team

He had 4 years of pro experience and a pretty good resume before going to the 49ers. When he played for the 49ers there was no "learning curve".

Steve Young didn't have any back to back 75 yard performances against teams like the pathetic Saints last year

Steve Young got better every game early on. I think you just make Steve young comparisons to JP off of the NFL blooper reels from the 1980's

But hey- it's probably apropos to compare JP to blooper reels. He's a uman highlight video.

WIN ONE GOD DAMN GAME WITH YOUR ARM KID!!!

Inetpub

10-18-2006, 08:34 AM

BTW,

Doing a google on Steve Youngs first 3 years in the San Francisco produced these stats.

<table bgcolor="#fffff7" border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" width="538"><tbody><tr align="right" bgcolor="#ccd4cc" valign="top"><td class="V10" align="left"> Year </td><td class="V10" align="left"> Team </td><td class="V10"> G </td><td class="V10"> GS </td><td class="V10"> Att. </td><td class="V10"> Cmp. </td><td class="V10"> Pct. </td><td class="V10"> Yds. </td><td class="V10"> TD </td><td class="V10"> Int. </td><td class="V10"> Avg. </td><td class="V10"> Rat.</td></tr></tbody></table><table bgcolor="#fffff7" border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" width="538"><tbody><tr align="right" bgcolor="#e3e2cf" valign="top"><td class="V11" align="left"> 1987 </td><td class="V11" align="left"> SF </td><td class="V11"> 8 </td><td class="V11"> 3 </td><td class="V11"> 69 </td><td class="V11"> 37 </td><td class="V11"> 53.6 </td><td class="V11"> 570 </td><td class="V11"> 10 </td><td class="V11"> 0 </td><td class="V11"> 8.26 </td><td class="V11"> 120.8</td></tr></tbody></table><table bgcolor="#fffff7" border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" width="538"><tbody><tr align="right" bgcolor="#ebedde" valign="top"><td class="V11" align="left"> 1988 </td><td class="V11" align="left"> SF </td><td class="V11"> 11 </td><td class="V11"> 3 </td><td class="V11"> 101 </td><td class="V11"> 54 </td><td class="V11"> 53.5 </td><td class="V11"> 680 </td><td class="V11"> 3 </td><td class="V11"> 3 </td><td class="V11"> 6.73 </td><td class="V11"> 72.2</td></tr></tbody></table><table bgcolor="#fffff7" border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" width="538"><tbody><tr align="right" bgcolor="#e3e2cf" valign="top"><td class="V11" align="left"> 1989 </td><td class="V11" align="left"> SF </td><td class="V11"> 10 </td><td class="V11"> 3 </td><td class="V11"> 92 </td><td class="V11"> 64 </td><td class="V11"> 69.6 </td><td class="V11"> 1001 </td><td class="V11"> 8 </td><td class="V11"> 3 </td><td class="V11"> 10.88 </td><td class="V11"> 120.8</td></tr></tbody></table>
And you guys seriously want to argue why they wouldnt give up on him? Two of his 3 years were 120+ QB rating. 10 TDS to 0 INTs in his first year in San Fran. WOW. And your comparing JP to that? LOL!!!!!!!!!!
:loser: :pimped: :homer: :moon:

billsfairweatherfan

10-18-2006, 08:44 AM

Considering how he played his first 3 years in the league. I mean its amazing what having good coaching and a good TEAM around you can do for a QB who is a 'Bust'. Or should I say a guy that just doesn't have 'it'.
jp is no steve young and never well be.beside that san fran also had montana.need i say more.you can shine sun up jp rear.it wont change a thing just more excuses for his bad games...........times running out soon

ICE74129

10-18-2006, 08:51 AM

Seriously this post is STUPID. We dont need to prove JP Losman is Steve Young. His name is JP LOSMAN! Your comparing a HOF QB to JP. LOL. Thats a big stretch there. Soon you'll be comparing dogs to cows. They are 2 different people. JP will never be Steve Young. Nor will he NEVER replicate Steves successes. He might win afew games but comparing a 3rd year unstable QB to a HOF QB, your out of your mind.

Also, We in the forums dont need to prove JP can play and win games like Steve Young. JP has to do that for us. So, unless he does that, JP will be compared to Akili Smith and Rob Johnson.

No I am comparing a mobile QB with a strong arm that has struggled but improved in his first 3 years on a crap team, to a guy that was mobile, had a strong arm and on a crap team...that became a superbowl winner and now a HOF QB.

If you look both were struggleing at the same points in their careers. POINT IS, San fran took him and stuck with him while providing a great cast around him. How did that work out?

ICE74129

10-18-2006, 08:54 AM

Steve Young smashed NCAA records at BYU
Steve Young was a Heisman finalist
Steve Young played 2 seasons in the USFL as one of the top producing QBs in that league behind only Jim Kelly right out of college.
Steve Young then played on a dismal Tampa Team

He had 4 years of pro experience and a pretty good resume before going to the 49ers. When he played for the 49ers there was no "learning curve".

Steve Young didn't have any back to back 75 yard performances against teams like the pathetic Saints last year

Steve Young got better every game early on. I think you just make Steve young comparisons to JP off of the NFL blooper reels from the 1980's

But hey- it's probably apropos to compare JP to blooper reels. He's a uman highlight video.

WIN ONE GOD DAMN GAME WITH YOUR ARM KID!!!

Care to post Steves stats for the first 4 years or are you affraid to? After being in the USFL he flat SUCKED in Tampa which was a crap team.

JP is doing better than Young did in tampa while still playing on a CRAP Bills team. THAT is the comparrison.

Since you can't understand the point, or refuse to, let me explain again. BOTH Mobile and strong arms. BOTH Starting out on total crap teams (yeah the bills are crap at this point and have been for 6 years). San fran took Young on and stuck with him when he was considered a bust. Buffalo needs to cut the **** and put players around JP that are worth and damn and give the kid a couple more years.

Dozerdog

10-18-2006, 08:55 AM

No I am comparing a mobile QB with a strong arm that has struggled but improved in his first 3 years on a crap team, to a guy that was mobile, had a strong arm and on a crap team...that became a superbowl winner and now a HOF QB.

If you look both were struggleing at the same points in their careers. POINT IS, San fran took him and stuck with him while providing a great cast around him. How did that work out?
Your comparison isn't valid

ICE74129

10-18-2006, 08:55 AM

Prove to me that JP isn't Cade McNown. PROVE IT!!!!!

Well both have started on crap teams. McNown stayed on one, hopefully the Bills do some work and improve this one.

ICE74129

10-18-2006, 08:56 AM

Your comparison isn't valid

Sure it is. Its dead on. hell even with USFL experience Young sucked thanks to tampa sucking. The Bills suck and that is what JP started out with.

Compare their first 3 years and then lets talk.

Dozerdog

10-18-2006, 08:56 AM

JP stinks . Get over it and move on

I hope he improves- but I don't see it

Ickybaluky

10-18-2006, 08:56 AM

ICE74129

10-18-2006, 08:57 AM

JP stinks . Get over it and move on

I hope he improves- but I don't see it It doesn't matter what you see. 'JP stinks, move on'? Good thing San fran didn't say that about young after his first 3-4 years...

Jan Reimers

10-18-2006, 09:00 AM

jp is no steve young and never well be.beside that san fran also had montana.need i say more.you can shine sun up jp rear.it wont change a thing just more excuses for his bad games...........times running out soon
My God, I'm sure I'm much older than you, but I don't know half as much. I can't honestly say, at this stage in his career, what kind of QB JP will become. He simply hasn't played enough, and we've had some coaching and OL problems.

So I admire your prescience and just wish I had your ability to see into the future. Congratulations!

Dozerdog

10-18-2006, 09:01 AM

It doesn't matter what you see. 'JP stinks, move on'? Good thing San fran didn't say that about young after his first 3-4 years...

Good thing Cincy did with Akili Smith

Or the Chargers with Ryan Leif

Or the Seahawks with Rick Mirer

Or the Bears with Cade McNown

Or the Lions with Joey Harrington

....one of these days Houston with David Carr

Dozerdog

10-18-2006, 09:03 AM

JP Feeley

TacklingDummy

10-18-2006, 09:03 AM

Wait wait wait, I didn't mean Steve Young, I meant Brett Favre.

ICE74129

10-18-2006, 09:03 AM

Young was a far more accomplished player than Losman coming out of college. He was a 1st team All-American and finished 2nd in the Heisman voting. He won the O'Brien Award as the nations best QB. He led all college QB in passer rating. He is a member of the College Football HOF.

As a rookie in 1984 he led his team to the playoffs posting these numbers:

179-for-310, 2361 Yards, 10 TD, 9 Int, 80.6 QB Rating

He also rushed for 515 yards on 79 attempts (6.5 yds/carry) and 7 TDs

That is a great rookie season.

Really? Well If JP gets to have a rookie season in a fledgling league, let me know.

That said, care to look at his NFL Stats? Even with all of his Career studship at college, 2 years USFL, Steve young SUCKED in the NFL starting out.
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/playerpage/1061

Again, good thing San Fran didn't think he was a bust huh? Oh and how did that work out for Tampa that thought he was a bust?

ICE74129

10-18-2006, 09:05 AM

Good thing Cincy did with Akili Smith

Or the Chargers with Ryan Leif

Or the Seahawks with Rick Mirer

Or the Bears with Cade McNown

Or the Lions with Joey Harrington

....one of these days Houston with David Carr

Kubiak could have dumped Carr but didn't. Instead he went out and spent a ton of draft picks on the OL and I expect them to hit free agency for more OL as well.

Hopefully Buffalo does the same

billsfairweatherfan

10-18-2006, 09:08 AM

Luisito23

10-18-2006, 09:08 AM

What a pathetic excuse for a thread....I wish I had the last 5 minutes of my life back....

GO BILLS!!!!!!

Inetpub

10-18-2006, 09:17 AM

JP is doing better than Young did in tampa while still playing on a CRAP Bills team. THAT is the comparrison.
A sign of a guy BUSTED with a moronic post. YOUR TOPIC SAYS "Its a good thing San Fran never gave up on Steve Young..."
So we take that as you saying San Francisco. if San Fran translates to Tampa in your version of english please explain how. Also your original post read this...

Considering how he played his first 3 years in the league. I mean its amazing what having good coaching and a good TEAM around you can do for a QB who is a 'Bust'. Or should I say a guy that just doesn't have 'it'.
You are wrong with the BUST part but right with the team. He did have a good team. But he was also Joe Montana's replacement. A team that had won the SB afew years earlier and with Joes retirement, they needed a new leader. Ever consider maybe Steve Young also made the team better? He was the leader of a potent offense. I cant say that about JP and his 20 point per game ceiling.

No I am comparing a mobile QB with a strong arm that has struggled but improved in his first 3 years on a crap team, to a guy that was mobile, had a strong arm and on a crap team...that became a superbowl winner and now a HOF QB.

If you look both were struggleing at the same points in their careers. POINT IS, San fran took him and stuck with him while providing a great cast around him. How did that work out?
I've already given you his San Fran stats. Your post is factless. And your telling me he had a crap team in 1987? They went 13-2 that year! I'll take a 13-2 crap team anyday! 1986 they were 10-5-1. 1985 they were 10-6. They also had a QB by the name of Joe Montana leading the way for the transition. Steve Young just took over his position and lead them into the 1990s. So your fact that they were a crap team and that Steve young turned them into SB winners is BULL. BULL BULL BULL. Thats a load full of BULL. POINT IS your argument is baseless and if you are going to compare him to Steve Young again, please reconsider and compare him more to Rob Johnson. Who JP's career will probably mimic.

ICE74129

10-18-2006, 09:25 AM

Sorry I didnt know we had a rice on our team?need i go on????????? Thanks for proving my point...the Bills (like tampa) SUCK.

Get JP some talent around him.

DraftBoy

10-18-2006, 09:27 AM

DraftBoy

10-18-2006, 09:27 AM

Thanks for proving my point...the Bills (like tampa) SUCK.

Get JP some talent around him.

So he can again be the target of another revolt? Smart...

ICE74129

10-18-2006, 09:28 AM

A sign of a guy BUSTED with a moronic post. YOUR TOPIC SAYS "Its a good thing San Fran never gave up on Steve Young..."
So we take that as you saying San Francisco. if San Fran translates to Tampa in your version of english please explain how. Also your original post read this...

You are wrong with the BUST part but right with the team. He did have a good team. But he was also Joe Montana's replacement. A team that had won the SB afew years earlier and with Joes retirement, they needed a new leader. Ever consider maybe Steve Young also made the team better? He was the leader of a potent offense. I cant say that about JP and his 20 point per game ceiling.

I've already given you his San Fran stats. Your post is factless. And your telling me he had a crap team in 1987? They went 13-2 that year! I'll take a 13-2 crap team anyday! 1986 they were 10-5-1. 1985 they were 10-6. They also had a QB by the name of Joe Montana leading the way for the transition. Steve Young just took over his position and lead them into the 1990s. So your fact that they were a crap team and that Steve young turned them into SB winners is BULL. BULL BULL BULL. Thats a load full of BULL. POINT IS your argument is baseless and if you are going to compare him to Steve Young again, please reconsider and compare him more to Rob Johnson. Who JP's career will probably mimic.

Did you post his tampa stats. If you read the post, I know its tough for you to apperantly comprehend english, It says its a good thing San fran didn't gie up on him. Meaning he was a BUST that they got from Tampa so they saw something the rest of the NFL didnt. They knew he needed a GOOD TEAM around him. Something tampa didn't have and something JP doesn't have in Buffalo.

Its a VERY legit comparison. And No Young didn't make the niners better, they were great (4 superbowl wins) without him starting. They made him better.

ICE74129

10-18-2006, 09:30 AM

Steve Yound never started a full season till he was in 1992, so according to the JP lovers twisted logic we should consider that his 1st true year, bc the other were hampered by injury, and mismanagement. His 1992 rookie year;

66.7% cmp, 3465 yards, 25TD, 7INT, 107.0 rating

Aside from the fact that you dismiss his USFL stats for no good reason, you say any talk of JP's stats the first two years of his career are null bc of coaching, injuries, whine, whine, cry, cry. So your saying this is his "rookie year" well Young did not start a full season either until 1992 with San Francisco prior to that he was jerked around in both TB and in SF had injuries and sat behind Montana. So by the same logic we shouldnt count any of Young's stats till his 1992 season and then beyond. You really want to continue this comparison now?

Yeah I do. USFL, fine let JP play in the CFL and run up stats in a meaningless league. if youngs stats in the USFL translate so damn well, why did he suck in Tampa.

Answer that question and you validate the entire thread. Why did he suck in TAMPA after all his college acomplishments and USFL Deeds. Its the same reason JP is sucking in BUFFALO. I put it in bold so hopefully the clues are understood.

ICE74129

10-18-2006, 09:32 AM

So he can again be the target of another revolt? Smart... Where do you get revolt? Put a real team around the kid and see how quickly he gets better. Amazing how that happens. Tampa sucked when young was there, the Bills have sucked for 6 years now. (7 if this season keeps going how it has). FACTS are, we won't know about JP, Lionert or whomever was the Bills QB till this TEAM gets better. and right now it sucks.

Ickybaluky

10-18-2006, 09:33 AM

Really? Well If JP gets to have a rookie season in a fledgling league, let me know.

That said, care to look at his NFL Stats? Even with all of his Career studship at college, 2 years USFL, Steve young SUCKED in the NFL starting out.
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/playerpage/1061

Again, good thing San Fran didn't think he was a bust huh? Oh and how did that work out for Tampa that thought he was a bust?

Those Tampa teams were among the worst in history, but the point was he was a far more accomplished player than JP, so he received more slack.

It really isn't a valid comparison, he had nowhere near the resume' or ability Young had, and hadn't shown the promise Young did as a rookie in Los Angelos. Just because the Bucs made a gross mistake giving up on Young doesn't mean that JP is going to get better.

I agree JP should remain the Bills QB because he remains their best option for now. However, his lack of consistency is the reason people are down on him. It isn't enough for a QB to make some really good plays and some really bad plays, they need to perform consistently. JP showed some improvement early in the year, but he still is far too inconsistent. That doesn't have anything to do with the team around him.

DraftBoy

10-18-2006, 09:35 AM

Yeah I do. USFL, fine let JP play in the CFL and run up stats in a meaningless league. if youngs stats in the USFL translate so damn well, why did he suck in Tampa.

Answer that question and you validate the entire thread. Why did he suck in TAMPA after all his college acomplishments and USFL Deeds. Its the same reason JP is sucking in BUFFALO. I put it in bold so hopefully the clues are understood.

Which way is it Ice, can we count JP's first two years or not? Decide! Its not a tough question to answer...his stats are his stats, Im giving you the choice...which one is it?

Also you want JP to go to the CFL and play? Fine by me, but then he's off the Bills. He sucked in Tampa bc it was the worst team in NFL history, if your trying to compare this Bills team to that, your not a real fan. Your trying to say "No my team sucked worse!" Thats something a fan would say for sure.

Inetpub

10-18-2006, 09:50 AM

Its a VERY legit comparison. And No Young didn't make the niners better, they were great (4 superbowl wins) without him starting. They made him better.
Yes it is a legit comparison. Seeing as how Buffalo has just come off 4 Superbowl wins, lets compare our undecided QB who just won a backup QB's competition to a HOF QB like Steve Young. As you can all see, Steve Young and JP Losman share afew things in common. They both have wavvy hair and say things like "we'll get them next time!"
They both cant lead teams to victories although Steve seems to defy that trend and they both have wavvy hair. Not only can we compare but both teams make thier QB's better. Buffalo is showing faults in JP and San Fran won SB's with Steve Young. Very good comparisons. Dont forget they both have wavvy hair.

In the meantime I would like to say JP Losman has wavvy hair and I can compare him to Kid Rock. He has wavvy hair too. Wonder if Kid Rock can play QB. It would be cool. Starting at QB #7 KIIIIIIIIIID ROOOOOOCK!!!!
Lets compare JP Losmans Stats to Kid Rocks stats. Thats as LEGIT of a comparison as JP is to Steve Young. Can anyone find me Kid Rocks stats? Its a good thing San Fran didnt give up on Kid Rock.

Inetpub

10-18-2006, 09:52 AM

I WANT THE LAST 10 minutes of my life back!!!!!!!! REFUND! REFUND!!!! JP LOSMAN PLEASE REFUND ME BACK MY LAST 10 minutes on reading this post! PLEASE GOD I mean JP! PLEASE!

ICE74129

10-18-2006, 09:52 AM

Which way is it Ice, can we count JP's first two years or not? Decide! Its not a tough question to answer...his stats are his stats, Im giving you the choice...which one is it?

Also you want JP to go to the CFL and play? Fine by me, but then he's off the Bills. He sucked in Tampa bc it was the worst team in NFL history, if your trying to compare this Bills team to that, your not a real fan. Your trying to say "No my team sucked worse!" Thats something a fan would say for sure.

Don't I have notes from you and other mods saying not to tell people they they are a real fan or not? Or does that just apply to regular posters with Mods exempt?

That said, Tampa sucked, the Bills suck. What is our record over the last 6 years? On par with that of Arizona by a few games.

If you count JP's first two then you count steve's in Tampa. Both struggled, both considered busts by the fans of that team. Steve moved on to a much better team and look what happened. Hopefully the Bills get a clue and improve.

ICE74129

10-18-2006, 09:53 AM

I WANT THE LAST 10 minutes of my life back!!!!!!!! REFUND! REFUND!!!! JP LOSMAN PLEASE REFUND ME BACK MY LAST 10 minutes on reading this post! PLEASE GOD I mean JP! PLEASE!
Its a waste so why would you want 10 min of it back?

ICE74129

10-18-2006, 09:54 AM

Yes it is a legit comparison. Seeing as how Buffalo has just come off 4 Superbowl wins, lets compare our undecided QB who just won a backup QB's competition to a HOF QB like Steve Young. As you can all see, Steve Young and JP Losman share afew things in common. They both have wavvy hair and say things like "we'll get them next time!"
They both cant lead teams to victories although Steve seems to defy that trend and they both have wavvy hair. Not only can we compare but both teams make thier QB's better. Buffalo is showing faults in JP and San Fran won SB's with Steve Young. Very good comparisons. Dont forget they both have wavvy hair.

In the meantime I would like to say JP Losman has wavvy hair and I can compare him to Kid Rock. He has wavvy hair too. Wonder if Kid Rock can play QB. It would be cool. Starting at QB #7 KIIIIIIIIIID ROOOOOOCK!!!!
Lets compare JP Losmans Stats to Kid Rocks stats. Thats as LEGIT of a comparison as JP is to Steve Young. Can anyone find me Kid Rocks stats? Its a good thing San Fran didnt give up on Kid Rock.

Just came off 4 SB wins? When did Buffalo ever win a superbowl? And the last time we went was in Jan of 94, over 12 years ago. Oh and San fran won ONE superbowl with young, not superbowl(s)

Ron Burgundy

10-18-2006, 09:55 AM

Hopefully the Bills get a clue and improve.

It's coming. This is the kid's last year here.

I have a sneaking suspicion that you and DrewBlueFan would be best buddies. He sorta bounced after his hero left, though.

Jan Reimers

10-18-2006, 10:03 AM

The truth is, no one knows at this point whether JP will become Steve Young, Vince Young or Loretta Young.

This thread simply proves - again, like thousands of others - that opinions are like a##holes. Everyone has one.

Inetpub

10-18-2006, 10:03 AM

Just came off 4 SB wins? When did Buffalo ever win a superbowl? And the last time we went was in Jan of 94, over 12 years ago. Oh and San fran won ONE superbowl with young, not superbowl(s)
If you dont understand my post thats good because that is a prime example of how you sound at the moment and how everyone is reading your posts. This post and all your posts in it are factless and baseless.

:bandwagon

ScottLawrence

10-18-2006, 10:07 AM

Don't I have notes from you and other mods saying not to tell people they they are a real fan or not? Or does that just apply to regular posters with Mods exempt?

That said, Tampa sucked, the Bills suck. What is our record over the last 6 years? On par with that of Arizona by a few games.

If you count JP's first two then you count steve's in Tampa. Both struggled, both considered busts by the fans of that team. Steve moved on to a much better team and look what happened. Hopefully the Bills get a clue and improve.

Have you ever thought that maybe this team sucks because the quarterback leading the team sucks?

Has our offense scored over 20 points this year yet?(17 against the Lions is pathetic)

O but wait, the O-Line, recievers, and TE all suck, so I guess thats the reason why.

ScottLawrence

10-18-2006, 10:21 AM

Where do you get revolt? Put a real team around the kid and see how quickly he gets better. Amazing how that happens. Tampa sucked when young was there, the Bills have sucked for 6 years now. (7 if this season keeps going how it has). FACTS are, we won't know about JP, Lionert or whomever was the Bills QB till this TEAM gets better. and right now it sucks.

Put a "real" quarterback behind this team, and see how quickly they get better.

Like I said last year.....Under Holcomb the team was 4-4(.500 over a full season), with Losman they were 1-7(2-14 over a full season).

They went into Cincinnati, a playoff team, and won the game under Holcomb.

But the team was so friggin bad last year, right?

justasportsfan

10-18-2006, 10:23 AM

Put a "real" quarterback behind this team, and see how quickly they get better.

Like I said last year.....Under Holcomb the team was 4-4(.500 over a full season), with Losman they were 1-7(2-14 over a full season).

They went into Cincinnati, a playoff team, and won the game under Holcomb.

But the team was so friggin bad last year, right?

Holcomb? :roflmao:

ScottLawrence

10-18-2006, 10:27 AM

Holcomb? :roflmao:

Whys that funny? He was, and still is a better quarterback then Losman.

ICE74129

10-18-2006, 10:33 AM

Have you ever thought that maybe this team sucks because the quarterback leading the team sucks?

Has our offense scored over 20 points this year yet?(17 against the Lions is pathetic)

O but wait, the O-Line, recievers, and TE all suck, so I guess thats the reason why.

It sucked before JP and sucks with him. So yeah its the team. Only a fool would sit here and think just replacing the QB would fix this team.

ICE74129

10-18-2006, 10:34 AM

ICE74129

10-18-2006, 10:35 AM

Whys that funny? He was, and still is a better quarterback then Losman.Never has been and never will be. What is this his 3rd team he is a backup of?

ICE74129

10-18-2006, 10:35 AM

Holcomb? :roflmao:Look who you are talking to.

ScottLawrence

10-18-2006, 10:52 AM

It sucked before JP and sucks with him. So yeah its the team. Only a fool would sit here and think just replacing the QB would fix this team.

Did I say that?

I said replacing the QB with a better one would make the team a lot better then it is right now.

holcomb was 3-4 and JP 2-7. Until you understand that FACT there isn't much else to say to you. And yes the TEAM sucked last year.

If it was a fact, I would understand it.

ICE74129

10-18-2006, 11:00 AM

Did I say that?

I said replacing the QB with a better one would make the team a lot better then it is right now.

If it was a fact, I would understand it.Its fact, everyone in the free world understands it outside of the JP haters. And no a new QB wont' make this team a lot better. Better linemen will make this team better, as will a real TE, True #2 WR, Corners, LB's etc.

PECKERWOOD

10-18-2006, 11:13 AM

Thats what sucks about this league, your guilty of being a bad player untill proven innocent, especially at QB. The only problem is, QB's get blamed with all of the teams losses and mistakes. Some of you guys want to get rid of Losman, without evaluating everything he gots. Shame on you, if your one of those people. Im glad your not the GM. So many damn fair weathered fans. When the going gets tough, the tough get going. Quit whining please. It is undetermined on whether or not JP is the next Steve Young or the next Akili Smith. Thats why you let him play. I dont want to hear about your psychic abilities, how do you know JP is a bust? Let the guy play. So many bandwagoners here, go support Leinart and every other rookie QB that has a good week, then go ***** and moan about how we could of had him. Its seriously getting old, be happy with what you got.

justasportsfan

10-18-2006, 11:46 AM

Whys that funny? He was, and still is a better quarterback then Losman.
that's why he's on the bench, because he's better and beat out Losman at camp. :rofl:

jmb1099

10-18-2006, 11:53 AM

For the record, I hope everyone wants Losman to succeed because quite honestly it would be utterly stupid to hope he fails. That being said there are a number of factors that need to be considered in this whole (I can't believe we have yet another one) qb debate.
1) Losman did not play for a big name school so even though he put up impressive numbers he didn't necessarily play against the best competition
2) Physically speaking he is about as perfect as you want a qb, good mobility, strong arm, decent height
3) His rookie year was a wash because of the broken leg. Yes he got to watch game film and study the system, but as anyone with any sense knows there is an incredible difference between learning from a book and practical life application, true in football and true in life. Anyone who has ever gotten into the car with you kid the first time they are driving knows this is true
4) His second year, which was his first year as a starter, should have been better, but could never have been great. MM and his influence has destroyed the fins up to this point. Let us not forget the horror we all witnessed in both gameplan and gadget plays. Its funny now because its happening to someone else, and especially funny since its the fins, but that was our reality last year.
5) This is Losman's second year as a starter. He has shown improvement over last year as he should have. He has made some amazing plays and he has made plays that made me want to punch the tv. He is not the worst qb in the league by a long shot, nor is he the best. He is actually near the center of the pack at this point.
6) Inconsistentcy is one of the things that is killing his overall game right now. However, everyone elses inconsistency is also adding to the overall woe of this team. Losman threw for 2 td's against detroit and he sucks, WM ran for 60 or so yards and he's ok.
7) Team inconsistency is at least in part due to having to learn new systems in 2 of the three departments of the game. Its also due to having some new personnel both on the field and on the sidelines.
8) Losman comparisons to any other qb at this point will be valid in some aspects and not in others. Losman to Young is vaild in some ways as is Losman to Smith or Mcnown, depending upon how you want to spin your point of view
9) Don't know about anyone else here but I don't know the guy personally and have no desire to. If he succeeds I'm glad because I'm a Bills fan. If he fails I'm pissed because I'm a Bills fan.
10) We all knew what this season was going to be like. How many threads mentioned it would be an up and down season with both moments of great excitement and moments of great frustration so it is what it is.
11) Scott Lawrence should never be allowed to post here or any other site ever again ever (just kidding)

ScottLawrence

10-18-2006, 11:59 AM

Its fact, everyone in the free world understands it outside of the JP haters. And no a new QB wont' make this team a lot better. Better linemen will make this team better, as will a real TE, True #2 WR, Corners, LB's etc.
HAAA.

So everything needs changing except the QB position?

Your really something else.

Get a ****ing clue.

Typ0

10-18-2006, 12:07 PM

I read about a page and a half of posts in this thread...then I just got tired and realized how increadibly stupid this thread is.

TacklingDummy

10-18-2006, 12:18 PM

.
11) Scott Lawrence should never be allowed to post here or any other site ever again ever (just kidding)

I moved down on your list. :(

Scott, quit stealing my thunder. :respect:

Bill Cody

10-18-2006, 12:22 PM

ICE74129

10-18-2006, 12:24 PM

Ice is starting the lobbying now to give Mullet Boy another year after this one even if he continues to blow.:funny: Ain't gonna happen. I think most everyone is in agreement he gets the rest of this year to show what he's got. But if it ain't happening by then the Bills are not going to do this again next year no matter how much manlove Ice and some others have for him.

Wanna bet?

TacklingDummy

10-18-2006, 12:28 PM

Ice is starting the lobbying now to give Mullet Boy another year after this one even if he continues to blow.:funny:

Hate to say it but JP will probably get another year next year.

jmb1099

10-18-2006, 12:30 PM

I moved down on your list. :(

Scott, quit stealing my thunder. :respect:
LOL!

ICE74129

10-18-2006, 12:30 PM

Hate to say it but JP will probably get another year next year.I know he will...this staff has a clue and understands that we are not a good TEAM.

Bill Cody

10-18-2006, 03:58 PM

Hate to say it but JP will probably get another year next year.

It all depends where we finish and how JP finishes. You're telling me if we're drafting top 5 (which means 4 wins or less) and Troy Smith or Brady Quinn are still on the board the Bills are going to say, "nah, let's take a DT". I don't think so. Both those guys are getting pro level coaching now and playing against good caliber competition. There'd still be a transition but more along the lines of what Matt Leinart and Vince Young are going through IMO.

GFLuNEEDit

10-18-2006, 04:09 PM

Losman is no replay of Steve Young.

He is a replay of Rob Johnson.

GFLuNEEDit

10-18-2006, 04:12 PM