Thurms Pre approved topic of the day

[THATHURMANATOR]

Only possible scenarios please

No talking about past moves that were and were not made.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Clone Jason Peters 4 times.

[Earthquake Enyart]

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2007/nfl/freeagentsOL.html

According to this, the pickings are slim for FA help on either line.

Schaub is a RFA though.

[THATHURMANATOR]

What do we give up by signing a RFA?

Schaub has looked good in a couple starts.

Back on topic sir!

[THATHURMANATOR]

I really think we should move Peters to LT right now.

I don't think it would hurt to put Butler in at RT to try him out either.

I know Gandy is atrouscious at LT but could he be better than Villareal or Reyes at guard?

[RedEyE]

I think we need better interior lineman and a TE. I can live with our current Center, but I think we need at least one monster Guard to open holes and with enough speed to pull on sweeps and end arounds.

I'd also like to see a top 10 TE added to the roster.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I am not sold on Fowler either. He is getting pushed around out there.

We Do need a pass catching TE. Royal is fine as a blocker. I believe Graham and Stevens will be FAs at TE this offseason.

[mybills]

Clone Jason Peters 4 times.
Is it Peters or Preston that brings on the penalty flags? Can't remember, but he did it 2 or 3 times in a row in the Vikes game (I think it was that game)..anyway, we can't keep getting stupid costly panalties. :down:

[jamze132]

Well, for the rest of this season, we need to see what Peter's can do at LT. And we need to see what Butler and Mertz can do at RT. As far as plugging in Gandy at LG, I don't know if that would make any difference. I assume just leave Reyes alone.

Depending on how Peter's plays on the left side and how well the two rookie RTs play, the O-line should 80% of the attention in the offseason. The rest should be on a DT who can play football. With an effective O-line, we will win more than we will lose.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Is it Peters or Preston that brings on the penalty flags? Can't remember, but he did it 2 or 3 times in a row in the Vikes game (I think it was that game)..anyway, we can't keep getting stupid costly panalties. :down:
Peters has had a lot of penalties.

Gandy used to play guard with the Bears.

Thurm, compensation depends how much $$ you give Schwab. I think it can go up to 2 #1's.

[kernowboy]

We start off by benching Gandy and cutting him taking the hit. At $2.5m his salary makes us a laughing stock ... actually starting him makes us a laughing stock.

Fowler has been doing ok so let him continue building his rapport with JP.

I think the flags were by Preston but he should be played as Villarial will not be resigned. I also think Preston won't have practised with the first 5 so it was possible flags could happen due to lack of familiarity.

Move Peters to the left (more on that below)

Start Brad Butler on the right. There is a concern that he is not ready but you don't get ready being sat on your arse on the bench. He could be our Runyan or Tauscher or the reincarnation of Ballard but we will never know without giving him game time.

I would move Peters to the left - guard role. Huh .... Reyes has been only adequate, Peters at 6ft4 and 328lbs has prototype guard size and has got the feet, run blocking and pass blocking potential to be our next Ruben Brown, Alan Faneca etc

And on the left tackle I would immediately sign Mike Pearson to the veteran minimum. He has not got the size to play guard but has the nous to play LT. He has been a bookend since High School. Indeed if not for injuries and the subsequent drafting of Khaliff Barnes he'd still be the Jags LT. The Fins signed him but he was cheaper to cut than Shelton or McIntosh. Sometimes we forget that players get cut due to roster economics rather than ability.

In the draft, most of the guys we should be considering lile Joe Thomas, Sam Baker, Levi Brown (RT?), Doug Free, Arron Sears (OG), Ryan Harris, Mike Otto, Joe Staley are tackle rather than guard options. Jake Long is a RT so if he comes out we take him if Butler whiffs, Blalock could play guard though.

With an established line of LT - Peters - Fowler - Preston - Butler we are then faced with following possibilities
1) Pearson does really well and as he's only 26, LT is no longer a need
2) Pearson does ok, meaning much better than Gandy - like thats everyone - but we look at LT in the draft
3) We draft an LT in R2 due to the extraordinary depth in the 2007 draft for LTs meaning we can look at TE, DT, LB if Fletcher/TKO leave, even QB in R1
4) We can bed in the LT in 2007 and start the QB in 2008 aka Ferguson and Clemens at the Jets or Pearson has done so well we can start Quinn/Stanton/Brohm/Smith immediately.

All of this assumes that with Pearson and Peters in place on the left, JP doesn't have to run for his life every play and starts playing like a first rounder. Then we won't need either a new LT or QB.

and all it needs is signing one player who is waiting by his phone.

Mike Pearson

[THATHURMANATOR]

Peters has had a lot of penalties.

Gandy used to play guard with the Bears.

Thurm, compensation depends how much $$ you give Schwab. I think it can go up to 2 #1's.
I wouldn't sign Schaub(an unknown) for anything more that would cause us to lose a 3rd rounder.

[THATHURMANATOR]

We start off by benching Gandy and cutting him taking the hit. At $2.5m his salary makes us a laughing stock ... actually starting him makes us a laughing stock.

Fowler has been doing ok so let him continue building his rapport with JP.

I think the flags were by Preston but he should be played as Villarial will not be resigned. I also think Preston won't have practised with the first 5 so it was possible flags could happen due to lack of familiarity.

Move Peters to the left (more on that below)

Start Brad Butler on the right. There is a concern that he is not ready but you don't get ready being sat on your arse on the bench. He could be our Runyan or Tauscher or the reincarnation of Ballard but we will never know without giving him game time.

I would move Peters to the left - guard role. Huh .... Reyes has been only adequate, Peters at 6ft4 and 328lbs has prototype guard size and has got the feet, run blocking and pass blocking potential to be our next Ruben Brown, Alan Faneca etc

And on the left tackle I would immediately sign Mike Pearson to the veteran minimum. He has not got the size to play guard but has the nous to play LT. He has been a bookend since High School. Indeed if not for injuries and the subsequent drafting of Khaliff Barnes he'd still be the Jags LT. The Fins signed him but he was cheaper to cut than Shelton or McIntosh. Sometimes we forget that players get cut due to roster economics rather than ability.

In the draft, most of the guys we should be considering lile Joe Thomas, Sam Baker, Levi Brown (RT?), Doug Free, Arron Sears (OG), Ryan Harris, Mike Otto, Joe Staley are tackle rather than guard options. Jake Long is a RT so if he comes out we take him if Butler whiffs, Blalock could play guard though.

With an established line of LT - Peters - Fowler - Preston - Butler we are then faced with following possibilities
1) Pearson does really well and as he's only 26, LT is no longer a need
2) Pearson does ok, meaning much better than Gandy - like thats everyone - but we look at LT in the draft
3) We draft an LT in R2 due to the extraordinary depth in the 2007 draft for LTs meaning we can look at TE, DT, LB if Fletcher/TKO leave, even QB in R1
4) We can bed in the LT in 2007 and start the QB in 2008 aka Ferguson and Clemens at the Jets or Pearson has done so well we can start Quinn/Stanton/Brohm/Smith immediately.

All of this assumes that with Pearson and Peters in place on the left, JP doesn't have to run for his life every play and starts playing like a first rounder. Then we won't need either a new LT or QB.

and all it needs is signing one player who is waiting by his phone.

Mike Pearson
GREAT POST!!! :bf1:

[mybills]

What's up with Walter Stilth? They have him listed on the practice squad. 23 year old rookie, 6'9" and 320 lbs. (Someone mentioned size and youth). :idunno:

[billsfairweatherfan]

Only possible scenarios please

No talking about past moves that were and were not made.:oops: How about replaceing the real problem.the qb first? line can wait.holcomb made it work.maybe nall do better.jp not working out at all.so start with the qb first than we will talk:club: .

[Patrick76777]

Only possible scenarios please

No talking about past moves that were and were not made.


How to improve the O-line

Get a new QB!

[mybills]

bfwf & Pat :coocoo:

[THATHURMANATOR]

:oops: How about replaceing the real problem.the qb first? line can wait.holcomb made it work.maybe nall do better.jp not working out at all.so start with the qb first than we will talk:club: .
This post is a stupid IDIOT!

My pre approved thread of the day from yesterday addresses this.

[THATHURMANATOR]

How to improve the O-line

Get a new QB!
So if we get Schaub and leave the line as is we will be good to go?

[patmoran2006]

What I THINK the Bills should do, and what they WILL DO are two different things.. The line you see now is the line you'll see the rest of the year, Jauron isnt going to change ****, mainly because he's a chump..

But this is what I would do for now.
During the bye week,I move Jason Peters to Left Tackle. I do it for two reasons
1- I want to see what he can do there, it would take him 4-5 games to really settle in there.. But by season's end, you'll be able to tell if his future is at the position.
2- I start Butler at right tackle. So far, we've had great production with our later round draft picks. I know he's real raw as a rookie, but seriously, how much ****ing worse can he be than Gandy? Let's see what he can do, so that you KNOW going into Free Agency and the draft if your going to NEED to acquire a tackle.

IF this was to work, Gandy could be a valuable backup, like Marcus Price was 3-4 years ago and your tackles could be set. I absolutely HATE drafting a tackle high in the draft because they are so risky. mike Williams and Robert Gallery are two examples of recent, pure Grade A Busts..

At guard, this is obviously Villarrials last season here. Let Preston get more and more playing time. I've watched Reyes play real closely this season when TIvo'ing games, and he's getting worse. 2 of the five sacks Sunday it was his guy that got beat. I'm not a fan of his. Anyway, next season let Reyes and Preston battle for the Right Guard spot.

Make a new left Guard a high priority next year. Either spend some cash on a valuable free agent or use a FIRST DAY pick on a guard.

Center= I don't like Fowler much at all. This position could already be set had Levy not made his ONE draft day blunder and taken Mangold instead of McCargo.. Oh well. Fowler gets pushed around too much. We need a new starting center next year.

Levy once said that after jim Kelly, Kent Hull was the most important player on the offense. I'd like to see the center spot be a higher priority.

So in summary- Peters at Left Tackle and Reyes/Preston at Right guard next year.. That leaves a need for three new starters on the line, unless Brad Butler is working out, which brings it down to two.

I think its IMPORTANT to start Butler at right tackle some time THIS year so we can see what he has. THat WONT happen unless they move Peters or he gets hurt.

As for the incoming FA class, its real thin on the OL. The top OL on the market is Pittsburgh tackle Max Starks, who's only a RFA. Of course, every team cuts players for system and cap reasons (such as Buffalo did with Milloy and Adams last year) so a few more quality players may come available.

But unfortunately, OL is at a premium in the NFL so teams will cut other players for cap reasons before them.

we'll be lucky to find one new decent starter next year in FA.. There are Andersons/Gandys/Reyes/Fowlers in every class.. Im growing a little tired of mediocre linemen signings.

Our Line is going to have to come primarily from what we already have, or the draft.

[patmoran2006]

One other thing..
Its time for McNally to go.. For whatever reason, he's failed to make any OL he's coached in Buffalo any better.

Get a new OL coach.

[alohabillsfan]

DICK,

With witnessing the performance of LT Gandy againts the Lions I have come to the conclusion (even without the benefit of coaches tape) that that freaking turn style of a LT needs to ride the pine! I mean can T. Pennington be any worse? Please replace him NOW, do not wait for the by week! If he (Pennington) is not ready (to be replace Gandy) then please tell me why he is on the roster! Additionally; there is another option, and while this may set us back for this season, please do not follow the previous morons plan, move Peters to LT then inset Butler at RT and put Gandy on the next grey hound out of Buffalo!


Sincerely,
Buffalo Bills Fan

P.S. This is not rocket science, make the move or get JP a flak jacket and crutches for Christmas! :candle:

[kernowboy]

I still think Peters might be better as a left guard. Fowler has been doing ok better than I initially thought.

There is a good LT sat by the phone waiting ... lets call him as he is better than Gandy and cheaper. Having Gandy on the bench and we'd be praying no-one got hurt.

I do not want to spend out 1st rounder on an OL as because for every good one there is a chump. However we could easily get a decent tackle in the second or third.

FA is poor this year. The draft is poor at guard and center. There are good tackles who cannot play guard because of their build whilst we have a converted TE at tackle who could easily play guard.

Sign Mike Pearson at LT in the bye week, cut Gandy taking the cap hit and play this line for the rest of the season

Pearson - Peters - Fowler - Preston - Butler

If Pearson is only average to good rather than good to excellent he'll still be a massive upgrade on Gandy.

In Round 2 of the 2007 draft we can pick Doug Free, Joe Staley or Ryan Harris. All could start from Day 1 and if Pearson is any good, we have breathing space.

If we move Peters to the left, we still have LG to fill and he doesn't work out at LT, we have a new left tackle and a new LG in 2007. I would rather stick Peters mass inside and be done with it. He could be the next great guard in the NFL the heir to Larry Allen, Alan Faneca and Ruben Brown

Oh and agreeing with Pat, McNally should be sacked as he should've resigned in shame at this years line