Larry Felser on Losman

[patmoran2006]

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20061022/1058394.asp

Pretty damn candid, no babying Losman from Felser.. And before the "this piece sucks" rants start, this is a Hall of Famer writer and probably the most respected columnist who's ever written for the Buffalo News.

So how about looking at the column OBJECTIVELY and discussing.

[Ron Burgundy]

It's spot on, of course...a lot of people have already been saying this, too.

It's also depressing...I hate having to go through ANOTHER quarterback thing. The next one better be the right one, damnit.

[Typ0]

pretty good read. Another qualified individual refuting the "every idiot can see" statements by the buttlickers.

[Kerr]

He makes valid points, but fairchild and jauron have to help jp succeed. He's not a pure pocket qb, never has been, never will be. But they sure try to use him as one, which is a travesty.

[Typ0]

He makes valid points, but fairchild and jauron have to help jp succeed. He's not a pure pocket qb, never has been, never will be. But they sure try to use him as one, which is a travesty.


he's got to demonstrate he can drop back, make his reads and throw a pass before they move him around. If they start moving him around he's going to revert to running way too much when there are plays downfield to be made with the players on this team who should be making those plays. It's pretty clear to me this is the truth since I've been watching JP Losman take off too quickly since he got here. A QB doing that is not going to last in this league. When/if he gets his head out of his ass and starts acting like an NFL QB back there he will gain confidence to make those plays downfield and that confidence will get on a level with his confidence running around. Then and only then will he be ready to make the decision about running around.

[Typ0]

everything seems to have been baby steps forward and giant leaps backwards with JP. He starts off well. Plays a good smart game and keeps the mistakes down. But then he lets something get in his head and starts leaping backwards. It's very frustrating.

[mybills]

In order to avoid having his head handed to him, Losman's decision-making must improve quickly.

No chit dick tracey. :rolleyes:

He's already shown us that he can make quick decisions (other than the last 2 games) so I know he can do it again.

[RedEyE]

I just don't think JP can get to that next level. While I believe he will at least have another 3-4 weeks of play time to prove that he can, I don't doubt for a second that we may see some Nall before it's all said and done.

[kernowboy]

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20061022/1058394.asp

Pretty damn candid, no babying Losman from Felser.. And before the "this piece sucks" rants start, this is a Hall of Famer writer and probably the most respected columnist who's ever written for the Buffalo News.

So how about looking at the column OBJECTIVELY and discussing.

I agree with some of what Felser says but I do have a couple of gripes.

1) The QB is the most important part of the team but not the entire team. I have no doubt that part of Marv/Dick's thinking was there could be the equal of Leinhart at QB in the 2007 draft but not of Whitner at S and looking at this long term that was the better move. Plus until they gave JP a full season, drafting an extra QB would be a foolish decision especially if JP came/comes good.

I still think the jury is out and that is down to having a sieve of an OL and no big target to offload to. People saying he holds onto the ball too long but its much easier to offload if you can see a 6ft5 TE or a 6ft3 or 4 WR. He has a TE who doesn't know how to catch and WRs at 5ft11, 5ft10 and 5ft11

I am getting a little tired of hearing about Cutler, its like hearing about Clemens at NYJ. Until he plays in a real game, the jury is out. If Cutler was a major step up, Shanahan would have pulled Plummer.

2) I am aware that the Cardinals do not have a good OL but to say ours is superior goes against all evidence and reason. The current Buffalo OL could well be the worse in the history of the game. What I have been arguing is that while Gandy remains at LT, we will never really truly see what we have in JP. Yes he shouldn't take as many sacks, yes he shouldn't hold on to the ball so much, yes he should try to throw the ball away more, but equally it might help if he had some targets larger than mini-me who could compensate for a poor throw, or if he wasn't getting creamed or expecting to get creamed every play.

Those calling for a QB with our first round pick are flying in the face of evidence. Sticking Brady Quinn or Brian Brohm, or Troy Smith behind our current line with the current receiving options is madness. It wouldn't surprise me if they pulled a Eli Manning and refused to play !!!!

The team's problems require surgery not a bandaid. The latter was the Donahoe approach. I am sure that Marv will realise this.

We absolutely must shake up the OL and looking at impending FA it looks like the draft will be the only way so

1) we must not move up to draft a QB
2) if we go for a QB in R1, we must go OL in R2 and R3 and try to get LB, TE and WR support in FA.
3) if a decent QB like Drew Stanton fell to us in R2 having had a R1 pick on one of the top OTs like Thomas, Baker, Long, Brown or maybe trading down and getting Doug Free and an extra pick if he is towards the bottom of R1, then I could live with that
4) if we draft a QB and no OL support, then we will be drafting No1 in 2008.

We must also consider how the QB plays and design an offence around him, not design an offence and then squeeze a QB into it like a square peg going into a round hole

[kernowboy]

pretty good read. Another qualified individual refuting the "every idiot can see" statements by the buttlickers.

Every idiot can see that in front of every QB there needs to be an OL worthy of the name, plus more than one triple covered WR, not a collection of Turnstyles and those with the strength of wet paper tissue.

Reading threads from so called 'buttlickers' ....and I would like to see JP replaced at some point as well ... is that what they say is ultimately even Peyton Manning would look shocking behind our line.

Manning also looks good because in addition, he has a pass catching TE who he can offload to.

Leinharts receivers are Pope 6ft8, Boldin 6ft1, Fitzgerald 6ft3, and Johnson 6ft3. Even if his line is awful which it is, his targets are visible.

Those like Brady with smaller targets like Brady have much superior lines.

We have neither height at receiver nor a OL which isn't a total embarassment. Until this is fixed it won't matter who we have at QB

[Tatonka]

by the buttlickers.

who are you reffering to here?

[mybills]

Do you really care, Tatonka? I don't. :chuckle:

[IAG]

I do not like Losman, but I like Felser even less. He is ancient and looks like Yukon Corneilus from Rudolf the Red Nose Reindeer.

[kernowboy]

who are you reffering to here?

He's pathetic isn't he.

It the old Tom Donahoe solution. "We are close to SB, just one big Marque name..... no honest, the OL is good enough ....."

BOLLOCKS as we'd exclaim in the UK

I'd have more respect if it wasn't all JP hating but an acknowledgement that while JP is backsliding, no QB is going to make much of a step up while we have problems at OL, TE, and big No2 WR

and that is just one side of the ball.

[YardRat]

People saying he holds onto the ball too long but its much easier to offload if you can see a 6ft5 TE or a 6ft3 or 4 WR. He has a TE who doesn't know how to catch and WRs at 5ft11, 5ft10 and 5ft11


Sorry, but I disagree. QB's throw to a spot on a designed play and it doesn't matter whether you're 6'5" or 5'8". The more important factor is the QB's ability to discern whether or not the 'spot' is covered by the defensive scheme.


The current Buffalo OL could well be the worse in the history of the game.

Disagree again. Not the best, certainly not the worst. Otherwise McGahee wouldn't be toward the top of the pack in rushing yards.


We must also consider how the QB plays and design an offence around him, not design an offence and then squeeze a QB into it like a square peg going into a round hole

JP isn't good enough to have an entire offense geared to his 'talents'. Only individuals that have the ability to completely control a game are worthy of that. Not having an individual that fits that description, you're better off designing a successful scheme, and then acquire and plug in players that fit the scheme.

[patmoran2006]

He makes valid points, but fairchild and jauron have to help jp succeed. He's not a pure pocket qb, never has been, never will be. But they sure try to use him as one, which is a travesty.
Very good point.. Over the past few weeks, the coaching staff aint doing him any favors, and that's being nice about it.

[Tatonka]

Do you really care, Tatonka? I don't. :chuckle:

i hate when people who are so easy to make fun of do that ****.

[Typ0]

He's pathetic isn't he.

It the old Tom Donahoe solution. "We are close to SB, just one big Marque name..... no honest, the OL is good enough ....."

BOLLOCKS as we'd exclaim in the UK

I'd have more respect if it wasn't all JP hating but an acknowledgement that while JP is backsliding, no QB is going to make much of a step up while we have problems at OL, TE, and big No2 WR

and that is just one side of the ball.


you have to have the ability to evaluate the players performance outside of the other players on the field. All people keep saying is "give him the season" in one breath and "he doesn't have the talent around him" in the next breath. Well which is it? What good is the season to evaluate him if he's destined to play poorly because he doesn't have the players around him?

It's not JP Hating. I hope the guy gets it together and we are set. The buttlickers are the ones that keep saying it's all someone elses fault and JP will be Montana as soon as we have the best team around him. If that is true, then he should be playing well but we are losing because we don't have the talent. Twice last season he started and played well at first and then started to go downhill. He did the same thing this season. At some point you have to notice a pattern here and acknowlege that the teams woes have as much to do with JP Losman as they do with any other player on the field. I've seen all the stats for Peyton Manning, Young, Favre yada yada yada...I watched some of those guys starting out and they all exhibited winning instincts despite making mistakes. I'm getting to the point where I'm not seeing winning instints from JP Losman and he's had enough time.

[Typ0]

I wish we were in a situation where we were all saying "wow the kid is making some mistakes but he's really showing us we need a team around him and we're going to be a winning football team". We aren't even close to that. Do all the finger pointing you want are you willing to throw away yet another season and set us back several more years to "have another looksie" next season with a differenent OLine?

[kernowboy]

you have to have the ability to evaluate the players performance outside of the other players on the field. All people keep saying is "give him the season" in one breath and "he doesn't have the talent around him" in the next breath. Well which is it? What good is the season to evaluate him if he's destined to play poorly because he doesn't have the players around him?

It's not JP Hating. I hope the guy gets it together and we are set. The buttlickers are the ones that keep saying it's all someone elses fault and JP will be Montana as soon as we have the best team around him. If that is true, then he should be playing well but we are losing because we don't have the talent. Twice last season he started and played well at first and then started to go downhill. He did the same thing this season. At some point you have to notice a pattern here and acknowlege that the teams woes have as much to do with JP Losman as they do with any other player on the field. I've seen all the stats for Peyton Manning, Young, Favre yada yada yada...I watched some of those guys starting out and they all exhibited winning instincts despite making mistakes. I'm getting to the point where I'm not seeing winning instints from JP Losman and he's had enough time.

My apologies. I thought your tone suggested a JP hater for the sake of it and I apologise for being wrong. I don't quite agree with the article as I do think it underestimates the poverty of the OL. If we go after a marque player I want it to be a marque LT

I think my posts have suggested I am realist. Dumping a new QB in there without resolving other issues won't help. I believe a new QB especially a rookie will do better if in the previous draft we have picked a top LT, and very good OG to finally replace Ruben. I think we do need to have better receiving support for whoever the QB is as well.

With Evans as our No1, I think we can snap up a good No2 a Joe Jurvecius clone who adds something different. I think Elvin Wilford could be that man. I am also really disappointed with Robert Royal. If he cannot function as a blocker, I am unconvinced of him as receiver. I would have preferred if we had taken Matt Schobel at TE. Now I pray we grab the best TE available in FA.

If we were to draft a good LT in Round1 and lucked out with someone like Drew Stanton in R2 then I'd be ok with that as although inconsistent I think he comes from a northern based college with a pro style offense. If we could trade down to the bottom of R1, get Doug Free at LT, then Drew Stanton at QB and then another OL with the extra pick, that would work for me.

I think JP knows its crunch time. I fail to see the point in Larry Felser, telling us all the obvious and also looking back on what we could have done.

Larry, get over it, it ain't going to happen now, what would you like to see the Bills do on Day1 of the 2007 draft?

[Typ0]

My apologies. I thought your tone suggested a JP hater for the sake of it and I apologise for being wrong. I don't quite agree with the article as I do think it underestimates the poverty of the OL. If we go after a marque player I want it to be a marque LT

I think my posts have suggested I am realist. Dumping a new QB in there without resolving other issues won't help. I believe a new QB especially a rookie will do better if in the previous draft we have picked a top LT, and very good OG to finally replace Ruben. I think we do need to have better receiving support for whoever the QB is as well.

With Evans as our No1, I think we can snap up a good No2 a Joe Jurvecius clone who adds something different. I think Elvin Wilford could be that man. I am also really disappointed with Robert Royal. If he cannot function as a blocker, I am unconvinced of him as receiver. I would have preferred if we had taken Matt Schobel at TE. Now I pray we grab the best TE available in FA.

If we were to draft a good LT in Round1 and lucked out with someone like Drew Stanton in R2 then I'd be ok with that as although inconsistent I think he comes from a northern based college with a pro style offense. If we could trade down to the bottom of R1, get Doug Free at LT, then Drew Stanton at QB and then another OL with the extra pick, that would work for me.

I think JP knows its crunch time. I fail to see the point in Larry Felser, telling us all the obvious and also looking back on what we could have done.

Larry, get over it, it ain't going to happen now, what would you like to see the Bills do on Day1 of the 2007 draft?



I agree dumping in a probowl QB isn't going to fix the problems on the OLine and they both need to be addressed or we aren't going to be successful. But that's the point that's being made. We aren't going to just upgrade the QB and be successfull and we aren't going to just upgrade the OLine and be successful unless JP starts to show us something. JP does not get a pass on his poor play because the OLine sucks and he's a rookie. That's just more optimistic wishfull thinking on the part of homers with rose colored glasses. I think we are on the same page.

On many of those other points I think a lot of the moves were done because of cap room. Brown seemed to be slowing down and he was getting paid a lot. So we moved him out. Same with Pat Williams. I agreed with the move on Brown but wished there was a way to have kept Williams.

[ParanoidAndroid]

This team needs to learn how to control the line of scrimmage first and foremost. After that, I think if JP can stop overthrowing the screen and use that outlet a little more often, thereby getting McGahee more touches, we'll see better overall results.

[ryjam282]

I think it is very tough to get a GOOD read on JP right now solely because of our OL. If I were JP, I would hit my drop back, plant, scan my reads, and then take off. Or at the very least, leave the pocket and run sideways so someone can get open and fire the ball. JP is very accurate when on the move. How can the coaching staff not see this? Move the pocket, have him roll out more. I think Jauron's gameplan isn't helping JP in the slightest bit by having him sit in the pocket. That isn't his strength and it never will be. Play to his strength's a little more and I think he would show a marked improvement.

[kernowboy]

I agree dumping in a probowl QB isn't going to fix the problems on the OLine and they both need to be addressed or we aren't going to be successful. But that's the point that's being made. We aren't going to just upgrade the QB and be successfull and we aren't going to just upgrade the OLine and be successful unless JP starts to show us something. JP does not get a pass on his poor play because the OLine sucks and he's a rookie. That's just more optimistic wishfull thinking on the part of homers with rose colored glasses. I think we are on the same page.

On many of those other points I think a lot of the moves were done because of cap room. Brown seemed to be slowing down and he was getting paid a lot. So we moved him out. Same with Pat Williams. I agreed with the move on Brown but wished there was a way to have kept Williams.

Yes I agree though I think Royal at $2m a season is pretty dumb as bad as Tripplett at $3.5m. Money unwisely spent. I think the Royal option was worse as we did have choices. I don't think there was much available at DT apart from Royal Pickett and Ma'ake Kemoeatu and they haven't set the game on fire.

I'll all depend on how the draft pans out but if I had a choice of top LT or top QB, I am going top LT. We can also go QB in 2008. Though this year its not unreasonable to expect good LTs in R2

[X-Era]

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20061022/1058394.asp

Pretty damn candid, no babying Losman from Felser.. And before the "this piece sucks" rants start, this is a Hall of Famer writer and probably the most respected columnist who's ever written for the Buffalo News.

So how about looking at the column OBJECTIVELY and discussing.

Larry Felser is the single greatest Bills beat hack.

If you ever watched him and the tiny tot, you know he doesnt even know the players names most of the time. Hes a conservative writer from another era. His thoughts dont translate into the new NFL, and he ALWAYS takes the negative outlook.

Thanks but no thanks.

[Drive 4 Five]

One can only wonder how Losman would perform behind the line of an elite team like the Denver Broncos. He has some good receivers, so I do not think that is the problem. I think McGahee is playing as well as could be expected behind this sorry excuse for an offensive line so it isn't the running back either. The only excuse we can make for Losman is the poor blocking up front. Now you can't put all of the blame there but seriously fellas. Our line is terrible.

Most of us refused to cut Bledsoe any slack for his poor play here, but just look at how he struggled in his tenure here with roughly the same shoddy line play. Now in Dallas he is performing much better but is it good enough? In Dallas, he has a much better line, much better receivers and TE's, at least McGahee's equal at the HB position, he has like 15 yrs. (or more) experience in the NFL, is in his 3rd season in the same offense, but he isn't making the probowl this year. I don't care what anybody says. He isn't. What is wrong with that picture?

Losman has all of 14 games under his belt and we're ready to label him a bust? If he had sucked this entire time, then I would likely be one of the critics, but in my opinion, he has shown plenty to indicate improvement over last season and he has tremendous potential if we build the team around his strengths. I think the Bill's have begun to do that with the receivers they kept this year. Now they need to upgrade the offensive line. If at that point, Losman is still playing poorly then this talk is warranted. Until then it is pointless.

[kernowboy]

One can only wonder how Losman would perform behind the line of an elite team like the Denver Broncos. He has some good receivers, so I do not think that is the problem. I think McGahee is playing as well as could be expected behind this sorry excuse for an offensive line so it isn't the running back either. The only excuse we can make for Losman is the poor blocking up front. Now you can't put all of the blame there but seriously fellas. Our line is terrible.

Most of us refused to cut Bledsoe any slack for his poor play here, but just look at how he struggled in his tenure here with roughly the same shoddy line play. Now in Dallas he is performing much better but is it good enough? In Dallas, he has a much better line, much better receivers and TE's, at least McGahee's equal at the HB position, he has like 15 yrs. (or more) experience in the NFL, is in his 3rd season in the same offense, but he isn't making the probowl this year. I don't care what anybody says. He isn't. What is wrong with that picture?

Losman has all of 14 games under his belt and we're ready to label him a bust? If he had sucked this entire time, then I would likely be one of the critics, but in my opinion, he has shown plenty to indicate improvement over last season and he has tremendous potential if we build the team around his strengths. I think the Bill's have begun to do that with the receivers they kept this year. Now they need to upgrade the offensive line. If at that point, Losman is still playing poorly then this talk is warranted. Until then it is pointless.

I agree that Evans is a No1 WR and that McGahee has been doing ok, but I don't think Reed/Price have been playing up to the level of a good starting No2 and the TE situation is as atrocious as the OL. I am angry at Marv in that most people questioned giving Royal such a deal and he's demonstrated why.

The LT situation is the problem though. Gandy on his current performance isn't playing at the level of a backup.

I agree with a number of guys who are wondering if JP will finally do the business but it will be crazy to change that and not change the LT at the same time.

[Drive 4 Five]

I think Levy/Jauron have done a decent job at this point. I think they have a good nucleus of young, talented players at the skill positions, both offensively and defensively, and I believe that next year we will address both lines. I think that in the end, despite the numerous critics, that those who actually work in the NFL, and are paid to evaluate personnel, can see that Losman has come a long way from last season.

[patmoran2006]

Larry Felser is the single greatest Bills beat hack.

If you ever watched him and the tiny tot, you know he doesnt even know the players names most of the time. Hes a conservative writer from another era. His thoughts dont translate into the new NFL, and he ALWAYS takes the negative outlook.

Thanks but no thanks.
this is one of the DUMBEST posts in the history of this board..
1- Have a clue what your talking about. he's never covered the Bills "beat", he's always been an opinionated columnist..

2- he always takes the negative outlook? Ya I know, and the organization hated him so much, who inducted him into the HOF?

He's a HALL of Fame writer, and you DONT forget how to write because you're old... "thoughts dont translate into the new NFL"

****, if thats the case, then why the hell is Marv Levy RUNNING this team, he's 80-years old.

Horrible, horrible post.

[X-Era]

this is one of the DUMBEST posts in the history of this board..
1- Have a clue what your talking about. he's never covered the Bills "beat", he's always been an opinionated columnist..

2- he always takes the negative outlook? Ya I know, and the organization hated him so much, who inducted him into the HOF?

He's a HALL of Fame writer, and you DONT forget how to write because you're old... "thoughts dont translate into the new NFL"

****, if thats the case, then why the hell is Marv Levy RUNNING this team, he's 80-years old.

Horrible, horrible post.

Continue to love the guy if you like, hes the media and you are as well, its understandable.

But the media is always conservative, always behind the times, and almost always stating things only when they are completely obvious. Thats not news, its olds.

[patmoran2006]

Continue to love the guy if you like, hes the media and you are as well, its understandable.

But the media is always conservative, always behind the times, and almost always stating things only when they are completely obvious. Thats not news, its olds.

Well if what he said wasnt COMPLETELY OBVIOUS before today, I think its safe to say it is now.. I dont think even you can cover for Losman anymore.

Either Nall is an improvement, or we find a new QB not on this roster.. Stick with JP if ya want, and enjoy 3-4 more years of 4-6 wins.

Thats the way it is.. Losman is a 4-6 win QB per year.

[IAG]

Larry Felser stinks and excuse fans if they do not know his history as a stinking writer. Let's not confuse him with Bob Woodard. I respect Felser's opinion as much as I do Michael Irvin's.

[PECKERWOOD]

Typ0 is negative all the time. That way when something bad happens he can say: "Told you so." Well no ****, every word out of your mouth is pescimistic, about time your right for once.

[GFLuNEEDit]

This team needs to learn how to control the line of scrimmage first and foremost. After that, I think if JP can stop overthrowing the screen and use that outlet a little more often, thereby getting McGahee more touches, we'll see better overall results.

The translation for this is...I still think Losman is the answer..if only ....if only...if only.....blah blah blah blah blah

Listen McGahee is just an average to below aveage back and he won't make any major impact if they give the ball to him.
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[Elminster]

I just have to say that....Losman may be a problem, or he may just be going through a particularly rocky stretch of his development. Benching him would be counter-productive, but he is being stuck behind a terrible oline and not being used to his strengths. It seems to me that he's quite a bit more accurate when he's moving...so why are we forcing him to stay put in the pocket all of the time...especially since said pocket usually ends up collapsing quickly even against a four man rush? It boggles my mind, it does.

If you want to blame Losman, fine. He needs to get better and no one should deny that he is at fault for at least 2 out of 3 of his turnovers...but McGahee averaged...what? 2.7 YPC? I watched the game....he wasn't dancing, he was hitting the seam and fighting and falling forward and all that jazz. Is it that both Losman and McGahee is incompetent...or is our oline terrible? I'd guess the oline has more to do with it. Gandy's been exposed and seems incapable of of doing much but be terrible. Villarial seems to have lost a step. Our only good linemen are Fowler and Peters. Maybe Merz...he looked pretty damned good for a 7th-round pick playing his first NFL game. Maybe he should be starting. Leave Tut on the bench...he didn't seem to be trying too hard last week.

All I'm saying is...wait 16 games. Evaluate Losman then, but, whatever you do, don't get rid of him just yet. Focus on the oline in the first round, if a QB like Stanton slips into the 2nd, take him if you have doubts about JP. But for the love of God, invest the lions share of your picks in the lines. We needed linemen and Donahoe went and drafted a runningback who couldn't play when we had a Pro-Bowler, drafted a project QB and proceeded to toss him in to what amounted to immediately, and then drafted a slot receiver with his highest picks. The only olinemen he drafted still on the roster is Preston....and, apparently, they have so little confidence in him they gave his job to a 7th round pick center/guard. We need a good LT way more than a QB...

[GFLuNEEDit]

Well if what he said wasnt COMPLETELY OBVIOUS before today, I think its safe to say it is now.. I dont think even you can cover for Losman anymore.

Either Nall is an improvement, or we find a new QB not on this roster.. Stick with JP if ya want, and enjoy 3-4 more years of 4-6 wins.

Thats the way it is.. Losman is a 4-6 win QB per year

This is only his 3rd year here , he is practically a rookie.
He only has 14 starts . Wait till he at least has 64 starts before we start writing him off.

Besides even if he has 164 starts we couldn't really hang that on him unless he was surrounded by 10 all pro's.

Just wait you'll jump on the bandwagon.

He looks like a combination of a young Farve , Elway, Joe Montana and Steve Young and accuracy-wise a little bit like Payton Manning.

You're a hater. And you are not a true Bills fan.

I should report you to the moderator and have you booted from the forum !

Ha ha ha